Time  Nick       Message
07:36 paramat    #5146 simple and seems good
07:36 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5146 -- Fix fog weirdness by numberZero
07:42 nrzkt      paramat, i agree too, merging
07:43 paramat    great
07:43 nrzkt      paramat, what do you think about #5151 ?
07:43 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5151 -- Tell on_punch to expect a return value by duane-r
07:58 paramat    not sure yet
08:01 kaeza      it fixes broken API
11:25 red-001    !seen davisonio
11:25 ShadowBot  red-001: I saw davisonio in #minetest-dev 20 weeks, 2 days, 20 hours, 31 minutes, and 23 seconds ago saying "Perhaps it can be solved by setting a maximum limit of 14 in the light source definition"
11:27 paramat    ^v Darcidride your join / leave messages are spamming this channel, anything you can do to reduce?
11:28 paramat    phew :P #5148 updated and seems to work
11:28 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5148 -- Mgvalleys: Fix missing decorations and incorrect function order by paramat
11:32 paramat    #1475 updated any comments? this adds sand resources throughout the world instead of just near sea level
11:32 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1475 -- Client lag improvement by sapier
11:32 paramat    game#1475
11:32 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1475 -- Ores: Add silver sand blob ore, relocate other blob ores by paramat
11:35 paramat    input needed on game#1532 i'm unsure
11:35 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1532 -- Bushes: Add leafdecay to bush leaves by paramat
11:47 paramat    game#1539
11:47 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1539 -- Creative: Cache creative mode setting by paramat
12:03 red-001    for CSM is isolating mods from each other really needed?
12:06 red-001    I mean if mods are written correctly and set all their internal functions to locals etc I don't see why having them share the environment is a problem
12:15 ^v         paramat, sorry lol my VPS is having issues
12:36 nore       updated #5143
12:36 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5143 -- Fix anticheat resetting client position after the client is teleported. by Ekdohibs
12:54 celeron55  red-001: most mods are not written correctly and never will be
12:55 celeron55  that's a silly presumption
12:55 red-001    still if the worst thing that can happen is a another mod breaking...
12:55 red-001    plus only the mods that are really badly written will break
12:56 nrzkt      celeron55: the main problem with your approach is the callbacks
12:56 nrzkt      and the fact that builtin should be instancied in every mod
12:56 nrzkt      but it's possible to sandbox them in multiple Lua states
12:56 red-001    I mean it's not that hard to make sure your internal stuff is local
12:56 celeron55  assuming client-side mods never have any special privileges, even local ones if they run in the same environment, then there is no security benefit; mods will just break each other
12:57 celeron55  people will probably start to want to have client-side mods that aren't sandboxed; is there a plan for that?
12:57 celeron55  just say no?
12:57 red-001    I think so
12:58 celeron55  people will want client-side mods that interface with the menu; is there a plan for that?
12:58 celeron55  just say no to that too?
12:58 red-001    which menu?
12:58 red-001    main menu?
12:58 celeron55  yes
12:58 nrzkt      main menu is already in its own lua state
12:58 nrzkt      client state != main menu
12:58 red-001    thats already scriptable
12:59 nrzkt      celeron55: i think not sandboxed mods is a good candidate for a modpack
12:59 nrzkt      you want interaction with some mods, use a modpack, it's designed for
12:59 nrzkt      but okay, we will think about sandboxing each mod, this should be too have for init, it just add complexity on callbacks
13:00 celeron55  i don't think we need to think about that
13:00 celeron55  we just need to decide what the security model is and if it involves that or not
13:01 nrzkt      what do you want, it's not clear, 1 mod(pack) = 1 lua state or 1 state for all mods ?
13:02 Fixer      on side note, modpack system is so bad, can someone redesign it? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4183
13:02 red-001    is one mod crashing suppose to just print an error to the console then?
13:03 celeron55  neither; i want that people don't just disregard these issues and assume everything will be fine
13:03 red-001    I mean if thats still going to cause the client to disconnect then this will be pointless
13:04 nrzkt      red-001: absolutely not, if a mod is crashing it's user responsibility for CSM, like in many games
13:04 nrzkt      if a mod is crashing and it's not in its own lua state it's nearly imposisble to recover safely from error
13:04 nrzkt      ignoring it can trigger many bad things
13:05 red-001    I meant if sandboxing gets added
13:05 nrzkt      i don't think it's a good idea, it's safer, because we can disable mod, but what about user experience ? mod suddenly disappear ? it's strange
13:06 red-001    surely if faulty code in one mod make other mods crash we are back were we started
13:06 nrzkt      no, because user knows which mod failed and can disable it
13:06 nrzkt      like in every game
13:07 celeron55  how about error reporting
13:07 nrzkt      error is reported on screen and in logs
13:07 celeron55  currently mod errors end up in the server owner's hands and they are gnerally somewhat knowledgeable about how to go about fixing them
13:08 celeron55  csm errors end up in the player's computer unless a system is added that allows them to be sent to the server which provided them
13:09 nrzkt      celeron55: CSM doesn't download anything from server it's not in the first mergeable version of the PR
13:09 celeron55  as the mods run in a sandbox, they shouldn't have access to anything that should be private so the errors can be sent without issues about what the data contains
13:09 celeron55  yes but this will surely happen in the future
13:10 nrzkt      maybe, but reporting should be done in two parts, for CSM pure client maybe send the trace to modstore for reporting to modders, for CSM from server yes report to server owner
13:11 celeron55  well, in any case "send the trace to wherever the code came from" seems to make sense
13:11 nrzkt      celeron55: yes
13:13 celeron55  people have had much hopes about having multithreaded mods on the client though given that the single environment on the server has problems keeping up with things
13:13 celeron55  i guess that's not happening
13:14 red-001    well that's a good reason for multiple lua states
13:14 nrzkt      MT mods is not required client side atm
13:14 nrzkt      MT mods = please use all client CPU
13:14 red-001    better then saving modders from their badly written code
13:15 nrzkt      just optimize mods, it's mod, not a IA
13:15 nrzkt      neither an heavy loaded server
13:15 nrzkt      red-001: did you ahve some PR for CSM to review ?
13:16 celeron55  my opinion is that it probably doesn't make sense to multithread everything by default; however it might make sense to have multiple "micro-environments" for different things like my lua client-side physics thing and eg. lua map generators on the server possibly
13:17 celeron55  maybe even essential
13:17 nrzkt      MT mods has sense server side yes, especially for lua mapgen, but it's not the CSM discussion
13:18 celeron55  well i try to think about the design generally
13:18 paramat    would be nice to be able to multithread the main generation loop of a lua mapgen, which tends to be the processing of a lua voxelmanip
13:19 nrzkt      paramat: it's not easy, and very dangerous to implement, you should be careful about that, the main problem will be the return callbacks, not the calls to lua state
13:19 nrzkt      calls from lua to core when generating
13:20 paramat    yes hmmmm was considering it but afaik ran into issues
13:20 celeron55  i don't have much reasons to be nitpicky about CSM details but i do have reasons to try to form an idea about what might happen in the future
13:22 red-001    well it might be a good idea to make all variables created by mods local by default
13:22 red-001    if thats possible
13:22 celeron55  the way to make lua mapgens is to completely decouple it from the regular lua environment (aside from some messaging system if needed) and run it in sync with the emergethread just like the C++ mapgen runs
13:22 nrzkt      it's only possible mod side
13:22 red-001    and add some sort of supported way for mods to add public API's
13:22 nrzkt      celeron55: this is a good and difficult idea
13:23 celeron55  which is exactly the same as with my lua physics demo
13:23 nrzkt      red-001: we can only write guidelines to help modders
13:23 celeron55  it's not very difficult at all, you just have to live with the limitations
13:24 celeron55  which are the same limitations that the C++ mapgen has
13:25 celeron55  i probably could implement a demo of that in a day if i wanted to
13:26 celeron55  i might want to if someone else would like to seriously try using it
13:28 paramat    if anyone coded threaded lua mapgen i would use it heavily
13:29 paramat    i have so many lua mapgens that are problematic to use due to the lag they create, especially on servers
13:29 celeron55  also connecting a fast path from farmap to it would be interesting
13:30 nrzkt      personnaly i have many things to do on the CSM, modstorage and player management server side :p
13:30 paramat    if you consider that a lua mapgen is running in 'on generated' and only modifies the current chunk, maybe it's easier to thread
13:31 paramat    maybe only if no other mod is doing stuff in 'on generated'
13:31 celeron55  it wouldn't work in that way
13:32 celeron55  we are talking about a separate file not loaded in to the regular environment with no other APIs than on_generated, probably not even get_node or such
13:32 celeron55  just the VM
13:32 celeron55  and noise things
13:33 celeron55  and anything else that i forget that is absolutely necessary
13:35 red-001    node ids?
13:37 red-001    #5152
13:37 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5152 -- [CSM] Add `get_wielded_item` by red-001
13:53 nrzkt      red-001: you are very active :)
13:53 red-001    well this is mostly adding lua bindings to c++ stuff
13:54 nrzkt      red-001: can you give me the variable output printed by your example ?
13:54 nrzkt      the PR is trivial and looks great, porting is easy as it seems
13:55 red-001    {
13:57 red-001    {
13:57 red-001    metadata = ""
13:57 red-001    count = 1
13:57 red-001    name = "default:sword_steel"
13:57 red-001    wear = 15232
13:57 red-001    }
14:06 nrzkt      okay nice
14:06 * red-001  starts working on porting meta-data stuff to client
14:07 nrzkt      red-001: warning, metadata is only server side, it's possible to have an interface client side, but it will not be persistent
14:07 red-001    STHGOM, You need to fix your connection
14:07 nrzkt      red-001: can you fix the style on 5152 it's trivial i can merge it
14:07 red-001    nrzkt, I only want to add meta-data reading
14:08 nrzkt      but metadata is not send from server to client ?
14:08 nrzkt      sent*
14:08 red-001    I'm pretty sure it is
14:09 est31      it is sent
14:09 est31      all formspecs for chests are in metadata
14:09 est31      and more thing
14:09 red-001    the chest formspec is made using metadata
14:10 est31      in fact, good thing to add would be a client side function that autogenerates formspecs so that in future it doesnt have to be stored in the metadata
14:10 est31      (but I guess some people want to eliminate formspecs entirely)
14:10 est31      its quite funny, some mods store passwords in metadata
14:11 nrzkt      est31: it's not like if we store password in memory during client object lifetime :(
14:11 est31      lol
14:11 est31      I think we do
14:12 est31      I more refered to mods like ones where you can add a password so that you can access a chest
14:12 nrzkt      yeah
14:12 red-001    well thats a pretty bad way to do it
14:13 est31      you have to store them *somewhere*
14:13 est31      a good way would be to store a hash
14:13 est31      and have a server side secret
14:13 nrzkt      est31: maybe having it in modstorage when merged ? :)
14:13 nrzkt      storage.get("vault_x_y_z_password")
14:13 nrzkt      :D
14:14 est31      you compute the hash via hash(server side secret, password)
14:14 est31      then it can still be stored in metadata
14:14 nrzkt      est31: we don't have a password type ? could be good to generalize this model
14:14 est31      as you cant do a brute force attack, since you dont know the server side secret
14:15 est31      nrzkt: perfectly it would be stored outside of metadata, in some file or database
14:15 red-001    nrzkt, updated the PR
14:15 est31      or we introduce a server side only metadata concept
14:15 est31      but idk
14:16 est31      other than for passwords there are no good use cases
14:16 celeron55  how about a proposal from 2012 :D http://c55.me/minetest2/wiki/doku.php?id=roadmap:nodemetadata_proposal#todo
14:17 est31      :)
14:18 celeron55  well also other things that are supposed to be hidden inside a node, like inventories of locked chests
14:20 est31      https://github.com/ac-minetest/basic_machines/commit/fb5aca17487ccd3f5bf41dfc3385a4b051f4f70f
14:21 est31      hash makes it at least non-brute forceable
14:21 est31      err
14:22 est31      hashing makes it at least non trivial
14:22 est31      but easy passwords still can be brute forced
14:22 est31      and yeah, probably some people don't want inventories of locked chests to be sent
14:22 * red-001  wonders what sort of person would brute force a password for a chest
14:24 est31      maybe the chest contains an admin pick, which doesnt check for server privilege because "I never lose it"
14:26 red-001    good point
14:31 est31      with inventories of nodes in fact its quite hard because some players do need them while others dont
14:31 est31      so you need to dispatch the per node check to a mod
14:32 est31      or have a whitelist of players allowed to access in the metadata
14:32 est31      neither is a good solution i think
14:34 est31      but idk
14:35 paramat    game#1540
14:35 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1540 -- Trees: Add 'snowy' group for pine sapling snow detection by paramat
14:54 nrzkt      red-001: there is one remaining issue on 5152
14:56 red-001    fixed
15:17 VanessaE   I'd like to suggest a feature (or rather, an API change):  if drawtype is set to framedglass, this forces param2 to create a "leveled" appearance to one of the node's textures.  If paramtype2 is set to "color", I'd like this to override the leveled behavior and make it behave like any other node (but the "leveled" part of the node would always be "full")
15:20 VanessaE   also the infill of that drawtype needs shifted inward slightly, to eliminate Z-fighting.
15:39 paramat    currently they 'level' like liquid in a tank afaik, is this levelling a useful feature? always seemed weird to me
15:39 paramat    well i guess it can't be removed now
15:40 VanessaE   I find it a useless feature as well
15:40 VanessaE   however, I'm just proposing an override if paramtype2 is set to "color".
15:41 VanessaE   that way one can apply param2 coloring to the central part of the node.
15:41 VanessaE   (or whatever)
15:41 VanessaE   (as I recall, RBA created that feature with Pipeworks' water tanks in mind, but it was never put to use)
15:55 red-001    what sort of minimap handlers would be useful for the client?
16:01 VanessaE   I imagine being able to enable it only when the user wields a certain node, maybe a similar function for the radar mode
16:02 VanessaE   s/node/item/
16:02 nore       red-001: #3747 could give you some ideas
16:02 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3747 -- Moddable Minimap by est31
16:04 red-001    thanks for the link
16:19 nrzkt      red-001: position size, type
16:24 nrzkt      red-001: maybe change the texture around it, permitting to customize it from mod
16:44 VanessaE   paramat:  bug in mt_game,
16:44 VanessaE   local dir = minetest.facedir_to_dir(param2)
16:44 VanessaE   local p = {x = bed_pos.x + dir.x / 2, y = bed_pos.y, z = bed_pos.z + dir.z / 2}
16:44 VanessaE   this occasionally returns dir = nil (like 90, mt_game/mods/beds/functions.lua)
16:44 VanessaE   line*
16:45 VanessaE   I think it falls over if the target bed isn't normal facedir
16:45 VanessaE   (as opposed to colorwallmounted, in this case)
17:02 nore       sfan5, sofar, could you please recheck #5143 and approve the last commit, so it can be merged?
17:02 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5143 -- Fix anticheat resetting client position after the client is teleported. by Ekdohibs
17:02 sfan5      sure
17:03 paramat    perhaps colorfacedir is causing the problem
17:03 paramat    facedir_to_dir may now need to only look at the first 5 bits
17:05 paramat    it's an engine issue
17:05 sfan5      nore: you could use MYMAX instead of the if(lag_pool_max < LAG_POOL_MIN)
17:05 sfan5      also that particular if is missing spacing
17:05 nore       sfan5: ah, indeed
17:05 paramat    please open an issue :]
17:05 nore       fixing that
17:07 VanessaE   paramat: consider this my open issue ;)
17:07 paramat    #5148 is simple and tested, can anyone +1?
17:07 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5148 -- Mgvalleys: Fix missing decorations and incorrect function order by paramat
17:07 paramat    reporting a bug in IRC will get forgotten
17:08 VanessaE   too lazy to open an issue :)
17:08 paramat    ok
17:09 nore       #5153
17:09 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5153 -- Fix facedir_to_dir and wallmounted_to_dir for coloured nodes. by Ekdohibs
17:09 paramat    i'll quickly do it
17:09 nore       paramat: no need :p
17:09 paramat    heh
17:09 VanessaE   heh
17:09 paramat    thanks
17:10 sfan5      lua has modulo operators?
17:10 sfan5      i guess it does
17:10 sfan5      ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
17:10 paramat    then there's this #5109 which is simple, well tested, but maybe a reviewer would want to test (that's the boring part)
17:10 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5109 -- OpenAL sound: Use a simpler distance model by paramat
17:11 nore       sfan5: yep, it does, but it doesn't have bitwise operators :'(
17:11 paramat    no rush i guess
17:13 nore       sfan5: done the change to use MYMAX
18:00 red-001    could some give #5152 a WIP tag?
18:00 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5152 -- [CSM] Add `get_wielded_item` by red-001
18:00 red-001    Turns out I need to fix some stuff as l_item.cpp uses getServer often
18:07 sofar      nrzkt: how often does the lua client sandbox run?
18:07 sofar      nrzkt: does it have the same concept of server_step?
18:07 sofar      client_step?
18:07 nrzkt      yeah it's already implemented, but i seem you don't read preview mod
18:08 nrzkt      red-001, and me add each functional feature to preview mod permitting user to see them
18:08 sofar      nrzkt: no time to test, sorry
18:08 nrzkt      just read the mod
18:08 sofar      in between one mt project I'm working on now and the house building design work, 0 free time left
18:08 sofar      :P
18:09 nrzkt      and you also have client_doc_api.txt
18:09 sofar      where's the mod? :D
18:09 nrzkt      everything is documented
18:09 sofar      minetest-mods? :P
18:09 nrzkt      no
18:09 nrzkt      in the branch itself in clientmods
18:09 nrzkt      https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/47574ac72e53c3a45a9ed4c4eeabfeb6fd6488de/clientmods/preview/init.lua
18:10 sofar      found it
18:11 sofar      question again
18:11 sofar      can I run something every step and get player controls? e.g. mouse down?
18:11 sapier     Imho clientstep should be removed lua handling in serverstep is one of the major design errors of server
18:12 nore       sapier: what do you mean?
18:12 sapier     if you need somesthing asynchronously to be done create a separate lua thread but don't allow broken mods to cause rendering to be delayed
18:13 sfan5      yes rendering should never be delayed by an client side mod stuff
18:13 sofar      rendering should never be affected by lua execution period
18:13 nore       ah yes
18:13 sapier     yes but exactly this happens if you implement on_clientstep
18:13 nore       I thought you meant removing on_serverstep
18:14 nore       (hm, on_globalstep actually)
18:14 sofar      hell first test I want to do is make a lua client mod that spins in a loop for 1 second
18:14 nrzkt      sapier, the problem is the rendering itself as it's not, it should be threaded
18:14 nrzkt      client should have its life and renderer too
18:14 sapier     that one too but it's way more hard there then not implement it client side at all
18:14 nore       though, can we really do that without having map concurrency access problems?
18:15 nore       *concurrent map access
18:15 sapier     nrzkt: of course but right now rendering is mixed to ui control adding lua to it too wont make things better
18:15 sapier     client doesn't have map access
18:15 sapier     at least not writeable
18:15 nore       hmm
18:15 nrzkt      we already know that
18:15 nrzkt      client should not modify the map
18:15 nrzkt      but lua should have access to control, can be interesting
18:15 sapier     client MAY NOT modify map
18:16 nore       yes, but couldn't there be concurrent free or things like that?
18:16 nore       I mean, let's say that sector of the map hits unload time limit and is unloaded
18:16 nore       couldn't it cause problems if the map is accessed at the same time?
18:17 sapier     right now we're talking about on_clientstep and imho adding it is a very bad idea because there WILL BE broken mods and modders will claim "but you made the interface available"
18:17 sofar      #define will be broken
18:17 sapier     nore map access is not topic here
18:17 nrzkt      sapier, i got an idea, participate on #5088 and add your comments
18:17 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5088 -- Client side scripting/modding by nerzhul
18:17 nrzkt      this permit to prevent repeating things everytime :p
18:18 nore       sapier: the thing is, we *can't* execute lua asynchronously in that case
18:18 nore       like, every callback can take 1s
18:18 nore       so the thing is, adding on_clientstep will not break more things than can already be
18:19 sapier     serverside globalstep is a continous source of lag for about 5 years now I'm absolutely against doing same error clientside once again ;-)
18:19 sapier     of course there are other callbacks causing lag too (doesn't make the main step thing better)
18:20 nrzkt      sapier, the server source of lag is ABM not globalstep
18:20 sapier     nrzkt: only for very very very bad written mods
18:21 nrzkt      in fact no
18:21 sapier     and abm lag is quite easy to track down the global or entitystep lag is extremely hard to find
18:21 nrzkt      just use a valgrind on a classic server modpack and you will see 70% server time spent is on ABM
18:21 sapier     un fact yes because noone reads the important message "ABM's have to be one line functions"
18:22 nrzkt      but they solve many things
18:22 sapier     doing fancy stuff in abm is stupid (sorry if this offends someone)
18:22 nrzkt      with a lag cost, yes
18:22 nrzkt      dirt replacement, flowers , fields etc
18:22 sapier     abms are only supposed to do small stuff or trigger things
18:23 sapier     and the triggering is where globalstep comes in ... as it's not separated from main step there's no good way to do asynchronous things
18:23 nrzkt      in majority of case yes, but the problem is... algorithm is huge, looping on everynode consume some time
18:23 sapier     imho we shouldn't do same mistake once again
18:23 nrzkt      sapier, maybe you can participate on this PR
18:24 nrzkt      just IRC is not sufficient
18:24 sapier     nrzkt: yes but if there's only a one line action in abm it's not that bad (compared to functions reading whole map for each abm)
18:24 sapier     ppl do that especaly those who abuse abm for spawning
18:25 nrzkt      it's normal there is no other mechanism to do it
18:25 nrzkt      the problem is here, ABM are the only way to do things and it consume many time
18:25 nrzkt      globalstep is not very used, except for after functions
18:25 nrzkt      and it's load is tiny
18:26 nrzkt      it's not the problem
18:28 sapier     yes it's normal but not because there's no other mechanism to do it. It's because it's easiest way to do it. See I wrote "advanced spawning" mod exactly to do the spawning. There's no need to use abm's for spawning at all
18:29 nrzkt      then why it's not used ?
18:30 sapier     I guess because of well known "not invented here" syndrom ;-)
18:30 nrzkt      or less documented ? and can you proof it's lightweight ? also don't forget one thing with global step, async = many locking issue, in fact everytime, the benefit is not here client side
18:30 sapier     well documentation is a little bit short too yes but it'd be enough to start
18:30 sapier     it's not lightweight, but it's lag free
18:31 sapier     basicaly adv_spawning impelments it's own scheduling
18:31 sapier     it ensures there (usually) won't be consumed more the a couple of ms per server step and delays any other work to be done to future steps
18:33 sapier     sadly there's no preemption in lua so user can break the delayed work mechanism in adv spawning too ... but you have to break it on purpose
18:33 sapier     https://github.com/sapier/adv_spawning
18:35 sapier     but back to client on globalstep Imho there's no reason to run async thread within main client thread
18:35 sapier     on server it's required to have map r/w access but that's not required in client anyway
18:37 sapier     same for core.after that one could be run in a separate thread too (well I quess it'd be automaticaly there anyway)
19:05 celeron55  is anyone in the current csm developers willing to try those?
19:11 nrzkt      no not actually
19:39 red-001    ok fixed all the issues I could find with the get_wielded_item pr but it will need to be reviewed again and it's a way larger change now
19:48 rubenwardy I'm currently working on meta data. I've made NodeMetadata inherit from Metadata, and made item metadata mostly work (I'm just working on serialisation atm)
19:48 sapier     metadata? clientside?
19:50 rubenwardy see my shared_metadata branch
19:50 rubenwardy gtg now
19:51 sapier     ahh paramat merged the multiply pull ;-) thanks
19:53 * red-001  was working on client-sided metadata
19:56 sapier     red-001 what are client side metadata supposed to do?
19:57 red-001    it's a copy of the server-sided metadata
19:57 red-001    for use by mods
19:57 sapier     but there's no way back to server?
19:57 red-001    no
19:57 red-001    there isn't even a way to change it localy
19:57 red-001    just a read-only copy of the server metadata
19:58 sapier     hmm well you'll have a usecase for it for sure as you spend time on it
19:58 red-001    easy stop the digging of a chest if it has items in it
19:59 sapier     wouldn't that be better done in core instead of csm?
19:59 red-001    stops the chest from disappearing and reappearing  as soon as the server catches up to the client
20:00 red-001    why so?
20:00 sapier     seems like exactly same usecase as protection
20:01 red-001    well that could also be improved my client-sided modding
20:01 red-001    by*
20:01 sapier     no
20:01 red-001    why not?
20:01 sapier     protection is nothing to be done in mods as protection has to be enforced by server
20:02 red-001    yes server enforces it, but the client can make it seem less laggy by not digging nodes that are protected
20:02 sapier     of course everything can be done in mods ... but question is always does it make sense to do it in mods
20:03 sapier     basicaly this is check a flag "can node be digged" ... it#s quite simple to check in c++ but a lot of overhead in lua
21:32 red-001    closed #4798 as it should be done using client-sided modding
21:33 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4798 -- Allow overriding and disabling the death formspec. by red-001