Time Nick Message 02:11 VanessaE hmmmm: did you mean "Won't someone PLEASE think of the pull requests?!" :) 02:49 lhofhansl btw. I fixed over PRs, not 10 as Celeron55 stated a few days ago. Somehow sometimes lhofhansl@yahoo.com is used, and sometimes it's larsh@apache.org, but it's both me. 02:49 lhofhansl over 20 PRs that is. 04:56 Foz Does anyone know how to use the player: inventory location? I am getting an error: 'The selected inventory location "player:Hal" doesn't exist' unless I am logged in as Hal. I read about minetest.get_inventory() but i'm not sure how to use that in a formspec list. 06:15 nrzkt hmmmm, i think about them, and i think... they will need to rebase, because this change is needed :( 06:28 sofar Foz: modding questions go in #minetest 06:56 nrzkt hi Zeno` 06:59 Zeno` hi 07:14 Zeno` nrzkt, I looked at your PR. So far I think it looks good 07:17 nrzkt Zeno`, cool, i added a last commit to fix points mentioned by juhdanad points this morning 07:18 lhofhansl #4990, continuation of #4895 07:18 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4990 -- Use std::vector instead of std::map in class ABMHandler, original by Rogier-5 by lhofhansl 07:18 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4895 -- Use std::vector instead of std::map in class ABMHandler by Rogier-5 07:18 nrzkt lhofhansl, yes, i commented it this morning :) 07:39 Zeno` interesting PRs 10:54 Zeno` VanessaE and hmmmm have too but like Zeno they are not MTGame devs so they count as players. 10:54 Zeno` lol 10:54 Zeno` it's hilarious 10:57 Zeno` Actually I'm tired of it. From this point on I think I have to not count paramat's up/down-voting on engine issues unless it's mapgen related 11:14 juhdanad The map data is mostly unusable without the node definition manager. Should the map have a link to it? 11:19 Zeno` Also, I don't think it's right to ignore the poll just because the results might not be want you want 11:19 Zeno` the poll results are not exactly heading where I what them to head either, but I will accept them 11:23 Zeno` juhdanad, what do you mean? 11:23 Zeno` link where? 11:25 juhdanad A member variable: INodeDefManager *nodedef in the Map, with a getter. 11:25 Zeno` oh, perhaps 11:26 Zeno` is this is relation to nrzkt's refactoring? 11:26 juhdanad Since almost everything that works with nodes gets a Map and a nodedef as a parameter. 11:26 Zeno` ah, I see. Yeah then without seeing code I'd probably agree 11:27 juhdanad No, this is for #4346. Nerzhul asked me to move getPointedThing() to a class. 11:27 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4346 -- Improved getPointedThing() by juhdanad 11:28 juhdanad And I would like to put it into ClientEnvironment, because to get a pointed thing you have to know the nodes and the entities on the world. 11:28 Zeno` well off the top of my head I can't think of any major things wrong with your suggestion 11:44 sfan5 Foz: that's a feature 11:45 sfan5 i'm not even sure why we have the player: thing since we also have current_player 11:50 juhdanad What is the difference between Client and ClientEnvironment? 11:53 nrzkt juhdanad: Client knows the network and Env. Env knows CAO & Map 11:54 nrzkt juhdanad: the good question is: what is the difference between game & client 11:54 nrzkt :p 11:54 nrzkt client only interfaces Env, Network & Game 11:55 juhdanad So Client is responsible for rendering, network and input, Environment is responsible for storing and processing all actual game data (voxels and entities). 11:55 nrzkt rendering is done in Game if i remember, and in non class owned functions (beurk) 11:56 nrzkt environment is game itself yes, objects, map 11:56 nrzkt Game is... something strange between client & irrlicht 11:56 nrzkt i think game should be merged into client, because client seems to be appropriate for rendering 11:57 juhdanad Will it be acceptable if I move getSelectedActiveObject() from Client to ClientEnvironment (since it is not graphics, but a simple raycast); and move getPointedThing() to ClientEnvironment, too? 11:58 nrzkt where is it serverside ? in ServerEnv or in Server (similar functions) 11:58 nrzkt if getSelectedActiveObject only involve CAO and not irrlicht that make sense 11:58 nrzkt CAO&map 11:58 nrzkt for getPointedThing() that make sense too 11:58 juhdanad It is currently client only. I'm talking about #4346. 11:58 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4346 -- Improved getPointedThing() by juhdanad 11:59 nrzkt oh there is Hud & CAO 11:59 nrzkt and HUD is linked with game if i remember 12:00 nrzkt who owns the Hud pointer ? Client or Game ? 12:00 juhdanad Yes, the actual raycasting will go to ClientEnvironment, and updating the HUD to the Game. 12:00 nrzkt Game then, then client seems to be the more appropriated because he knows env & Game 12:01 juhdanad Sorry, I don't understand that. 12:01 nrzkt Client sorry :p 12:01 nrzkt Replace first Game with client :p 12:02 juhdanad Okay! 12:02 juhdanad However, #4421 will abstract avay getPointedThing(), so you can use it on server, too. 12:02 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4421 -- Expose getPointedThing() as RaycastState by juhdanad 12:02 nrzkt i looked at getSelectedActiveObject who calls this function ? 12:03 juhdanad Only getPointedThing(). 12:03 nrzkt boxLineCollision is owned by something ? 12:04 juhdanad No, it is a math helper function that I wrote. 12:04 nrzkt okay 12:04 nrzkt getSelectedActiveObject is a pure ClientEnvironment function as i see 12:04 nrzkt CAO & Env only are called 12:04 juhdanad This is why I want to move it to ClientEnvironment. 12:04 nrzkt perfect then, 12:04 juhdanad I hope I will push soon. 12:05 nrzkt take your time :) 13:31 nrzkt sfan5 are you there ? 13:38 nrzkt sfan5: #4991 13:38 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4991 -- Travis: Build server too for UNIX by nerzhul 13:40 nrzkt travis doesn't build server on UNIX platforms, it's not good, sometimes we have little code parts which changes depending on client or server 13:45 sfan5 hm could be useful 13:46 sfan5 will look at it later 13:49 nrzkt it just add -DENABLE_SERVER=1 to cmake line :) 13:51 nrzkt i noticed this when sofar reports a compilation error and when fixing it i see travis is green, i'm green and ... ENABLE_SERVER=FALSE by default 13:51 nrzkt i saw* 13:52 nrzkt ENABLE_SERVER=true => compilation error, like sofar, unlike travis => ENABLE_SERVER=TRUE should be required by travis 14:08 nrzkt sfan5: build passes :) 14:11 sfan5 nrzkt: seems good to me 14:12 nrzkt okay, can i merge ? :) 14:12 sfan5 yes 14:13 nrzkt done 14:13 nrzkt we now properly test dedicated servers on travis :) 14:13 nrzkt build* 14:16 nrzkt Zeno`: for https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/4990 is this an approval ? 14:16 nrzkt except the commit author ? 14:31 Zeno` yes 14:36 Zeno` it wasn't at the time, but I tested and reviewed more 14:36 Zeno` so may as well take it as a yes 15:59 rubenwardy almost trivial PR for review: #4987 15:59 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4987 -- Expose and document chatcommands as minetest.registered_chatcommands by rubenwardy 16:05 rubenwardy merging game#1483 in 10 minutes... 16:05 nrzkt rubenwardy: why changing variable name expose it ? 16:05 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1483 -- Add /killme chat command by rubenwardy 16:06 nrzkt is there any harry potter magic ? 16:06 rubenwardy nrzkt: to make it consistent with other tables 16:06 rubenwardy it's currently undocumented so might as well not be exposed 16:11 rubenwardy actually, just noticed a problem in killme so won't merge 16:54 Zeno` hmmmm, paramat seems to intend ignore the results of the poll: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1493 16:55 Zeno` also, your opinion as well as mine are basically to be ignored because we're just players: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1478 16:55 Zeno` https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1478 16:55 Zeno` oops 16:56 Zeno` https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1493#issuecomment-270269601 16:57 Zeno` https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1478#issuecomment-270251534 16:57 Zeno` I don't think he wants to listen to anybody 16:58 rubenwardy there's more than enough MTG to overrule him on the basis of the poll results 16:58 rubenwardy *MTG devs 16:58 rubenwardy *active 16:58 Zeno` rubenwardy, I'm not sure that's the point. He seems to want to ignore everyone 16:59 hmmmm where is the forum poll? 17:03 Zeno` you'd have to ask sofar 17:04 Zeno` I really don't know what's going on. It's like he's a different person from a month ago 17:04 sofar https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16332&sid=27006dd8fe24985b6ddeb5531a071f2e 17:06 sofar I wanted to explore what the preferred default behavior should be, and get a good idea of what secondary behavior people want 17:07 sofar I didn NOT want to explore "which kitchen sink sounds best for everyone" 17:07 sofar we will end up with the kitchen sink anyway 17:07 Zeno` "Players know how to use settings, leaving that out of the options alters the votes. 17:07 Zeno` Refusing my requests will make this poll invalid and biased and i will take no notice of it and will encourage other devs to do the same. 17:07 Zeno` I'm sorry to be a pain over this but this inherent bias is not acceptable." 17:07 Zeno` what does that even mean? 17:07 sofar but the default behavior will still be a fight 17:08 hmmmm he's grasping at straws 17:08 sofar the discussion hasn't gone productive in a while 17:09 sofar the poll was an idea to get people to think constructively 17:09 sofar "what do players want most" 17:09 Zeno` isn't that what's most important/ 17:09 Zeno` ? 17:09 sofar in the end what we're gonna make should cater to 95% of the players 17:09 sofar even if they're split in 2 camps 17:09 sofar or even 3 17:10 Zeno` If the players want not plants underground without the super-lamps, then I won't like it. But I'll accept it 17:10 Zeno` I thought that was what a poll was for 17:10 sofar yes, that's one of the points 17:14 sofar what's good about the poll results is that most people clearly favor the two options that would be relatively easy to implement with only 1 config option 17:14 hmmmm why not just add the config option choice 17:14 sofar because that's the deciding factor for the PR 17:15 sofar not for the question "what do people want" 17:15 hmmmm i know it doesn't make a whole lot of sense given the context here, but we'll be making somebody else happy 17:15 sofar poll ~= pull request 17:15 sofar the poll is just a question 17:15 sofar what gameplay do you want to end up with 17:15 sofar not 17:15 sofar what config option allowing multiple gameplay behaviors do you want to end up with 17:16 sofar the latter is wholly unanswerable without a thesis length explanation 17:16 sofar of each possibility 17:16 hmmmm i mean i get the reasoning 17:17 hmmmm the config option could be to choose between the two most popular end behaviors in the poll 17:17 sofar that's my intent 17:17 sofar if at all possible, of course 17:17 hmmmm you could reduce conflict here by conceding and doing something that doesn't necessarily make a whole lot of sense though 17:17 sofar but I think it will be 17:32 Zeno` it's a game. As long as something is not so unrealistic that's it's dumb then *shrug* 17:32 Zeno` I doubt anyone wants to play "world of real life" 17:34 Zeno` where you sit in an office all day doing mindless and mind numbing stuff 17:34 Zeno` go do the shopping 17:34 Zeno` vacuum the carpets 17:35 Zeno` do the dishes, wash the car... I suppose it could be a subgame 17:37 rdococ sounds like that would be the work of a specialised server 17:37 Zeno` yeah, it'd be fun! 17:37 rdococ a singleplayer "world of real life" makes no sense - eg who would have built the offices, shops, vacuum cleaners, carpets, dishes or cars? 17:38 rdococ in a way it's just a boring city roleplay 17:38 hmmmm the germans love real life simulators 17:38 hmmmm there's this company that makes nothing but X Simulator for every possible profession 17:38 hmmmm Farm Simulator 2016 17:38 rdococ idk I've seen some german simulators and it'd be more realistic to call them assimilators... 17:38 hmmmm Office Simulator 2016 17:38 sfan5 don't forget Truck Simulator 17:39 hmmmm yup 17:39 Zeno` bbiab, hanging out the washing to dry for a bonus 1000 points 17:40 rdococ you'd also need customers 17:44 Zeno` err actually. Watching some of the players on mutiplayer servers they might like this 17:44 Zeno` forget I said anything lol 17:45 rdococ whadya mean? :p 17:51 juhdanad est31, are you here? 18:10 est31 juhdanad: yes? 18:11 juhdanad Could you remove 'changes requested' status from #4346, please? I have corrected everything you asked. 18:12 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4346 -- Improved getPointedThing() by juhdanad 18:12 rubenwardy almost trivial PR for review: #4987 18:12 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4987 -- Expose and document chatcommands as minetest.registered_chatcommands by rubenwardy 18:15 est31 juhdanad: done 18:15 juhdanad Thank you! 18:16 juhdanad Then the PR has 3 approvals! 18:16 est31 thanks for the pr :) 18:17 est31 lets merge it 18:17 juhdanad But #4985 will be harder to rebase then! 18:17 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4985 -- Environment & IGameDef code refactoring by nerzhul 18:17 juhdanad I think I have more time to rebase my own. 18:17 juhdanad So I can wait. 18:18 est31 well this one is actually improving something 18:19 juhdanad Of course I don't forbid merging, just wanted not to steal time from nerzhul. 18:20 juhdanad Thanks for merge! #4027 and #3511 now can be closed. 18:21 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4027 -- Make getPointedThing faster by gregorycu 18:21 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3511 -- Setting an item's range high results in poor performance 18:23 Krock R.I.P getPointedThing improvements by greg 19:28 rdococ solar eclipses 19:30 rdococ is there a way to directly reposition the sun and moon? 20:22 paramat hmmmm and all, i have responded to things said on IRC here onwards, please read https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1478#issuecomment-270471414 20:23 paramat i've been absent from IRC recently due to 2 weeks of aggressive behaviour towards me from zeno, i find IRC makes me anxious at the best of times 20:25 paramat i've patiently explained the light issues to zeno multiple times but he bizarrely continues to get many facts wrong, i'm actually concerned about him 20:27 paramat anyway, it's ok, we all get fed up with other devs sometimes, i had a problem with RBA sometimes 20:27 paramat zeno is still one of my favourite devs, lovely person 20:28 paramat everyone is allowed to go nuts sometimes, i have several times :] 20:30 VanessaE paramat: just my opinion, but what you're doing is bullshit. 20:30 VanessaE comments on IRC need replies ON IRC. 20:31 paramat i have chronic anxiety and am slow on IRC, i can think clearer when replying in a post 20:31 VanessaE no offense, and you know I respect you, but that's just not going to fly. 20:32 paramat well then you're being unreasonable and insensitive 20:32 VanessaE I don't mean to be insensitive, but this fighting between you and zeno and others has GOT to stop 20:32 VanessaE and that's not going to happen if you keep splitting up the conversation between here and github issues 20:33 paramat cool it, we can comment whereever we want 20:33 VanessaE ... 20:35 VanessaE in any case, you spelled out the whole problem with "Your opinion does count, to me too, but you have no dev authority in MTG." 20:36 sfan5 merging #4990 soon (>=2 approvals) 20:36 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4990 -- Use std::vector instead of std::map in class ABMHandler, original by Rogier-5 by lhofhansl 20:36 VanessaE engine devs should have dev authority over _game also, as long as the two remain "connected" in players' minds. 20:36 Shara To many players, minetest_game IS minetest. 20:36 VanessaE precisely. 20:37 VanessaE it does NOT matter whether there are other subgames 20:37 sfan5 the seperation is there for a reason 20:37 VanessaE the standard game IS minetest_game. 20:37 VanessaE nearly every mod written for this project is written for that subgame 20:38 VanessaE sfan5: noone's saying there shouldn't be a separation 20:38 sfan5 merged 20:38 rubenwardy Merging #4987 in 15 minutes 20:38 sfan5 i'm talking about the seperation of dev authorities 20:38 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4987 -- Expose and document chatcommands as minetest.registered_chatcommands by rubenwardy 20:38 VanessaE the point is that in everyone's minds, save for a couple of people here, the two pieces go together. 20:38 rubenwardy Game design is different to software design 20:38 VanessaE sfan5: that's fine too, but look what it's causing. 20:39 paramat a github post allows me to think at my own speed and format quotes and replies, that would be much more difficult for me on IRC, especially at the moment. so please do not have a go at me over where i choose to communicate 20:40 paramat it's a non-issue, not even worth mentioning 20:40 VanessaE I'm not "having a go" at you, paramat. 20:43 asl97 sfan5: so much for the whole 'flagging pr as merged', also, the functions are place between getNodeNoCheck and setNodeNoCheck. not a big issue but meh 20:43 VanessaE I'm just pissed off at what's generally going on around here. everyone's doing shit that someone else hates and no one seems to want to work together to sort things out. it's only focused on you because right now, you've been committing like 90% of what goes into mt_game 20:44 nore paramat: just stop being paranoid. people *know* that there will be an option or in the worst case it will be possible to change the behaviour by mods 20:44 nore so just calm down please 20:44 rubenwardy https://xkcd.com/1172/ 20:44 rubenwardy !title 20:44 ShadowBot xkcd: Workflow 20:44 paramat it's not that bad, you're being overly negative, dev has been going very wel recently, with some good new devs joining 20:44 nore rubenwardy: :) 20:45 paramat (well) 20:45 paramat nore if i'm a little wound up it's due to 2 weeks of attacks from someone 20:45 paramat plus an unfair poll with my request refused 20:46 nore paramat: I can't say whether you have been attacked as you say, but the poll is *not* unfair 20:46 paramat i have suggested a setting so that eveyone is happy, lets do that 20:46 nore moreover, the poll has been changed to remove the mention of mods 20:46 nore and as I say, it is known it will be configurable 20:47 paramat if my preferred option is refused inclusion that's unfair 20:47 paramat your option request was accepted 20:48 nore paramat: your preferred option is *exactly* the same as the first, only that it explicits the fact that there will be a setting 20:48 paramat th esetting need to be mentioned otherwise option 1 looks less appealing 20:48 paramat (needs) 20:48 nore and voters already know that it will be possible to have it configured anyway because we won't merged something that can't 20:48 Shara Regardless of whether specific options are included or whether the highest voted option is selected, the poll shows a lot of people do not like the current behaviour. 20:49 nore paramat: regardless of that, people will vote for their preferred option 20:49 nore which is not the current behaviour, as Shara pointed 20:50 Shara It also shows absolutely no one wants option 3. 20:50 Shara So there 'is' some valid data there, regardless of how you choose to use it. 20:50 nore exactly 20:51 paramat yes, it's loosely representative 20:51 rubenwardy I think that the poll should mention it will be easily changable, especially for the forum one 20:52 paramat apart from forcing every MT player by law to vote there's no better way unfortunately 20:52 paramat i don't believe in player democracy though, it's best devs listen but take the final decision 20:53 sfan5 of course 20:53 sfan5 the poll is not going to approve any PRs 20:53 sfan5 but it should be strongly considered by the devs 20:54 paramat agreed 20:54 VanessaE extremely strongly - you don't maintain a userbase by ignoring what the users want (well, with exceptions) 20:55 nore paramat: whatever happens, it looks like the poll and the vote by devs it in favour of option 4, which has a lot less downvotes as the others 20:55 nore of course, we should wait until the voting delay expires 20:56 nore but what I am saying is that 4 seems a good compromise to almost everyone (you are the only dev who opposed it) 20:56 rubenwardy merging... 20:57 paramat a setting would allow the choice between sensible current behaviour and old behaviour, without a messy compromise 20:57 sofar https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1493#issuecomment-270484317 20:58 Shara paramat: please correct me if I am wrong, but would old behaviour have been option 3 (or close to it)? 20:58 paramat correct 20:58 Shara People don't want option 3. 20:58 paramat that's what zeno, hmmmm and others want 20:59 Shara Look at the poll votes. 20:59 Shara They want the middle ground. 20:59 paramat although it's inconsistent yes 20:59 paramat my suggestion is a settable light level for all plants 20:59 sfan5 that's debatable 21:00 paramat my suggetion is simple and keeps current behaviour default 21:00 Fixer don't rush with it and it will probably work out right? 21:01 sfan5 paramat: few people want current behaviour to be default 21:01 paramat nope, only a few people have made a fuss 21:01 sfan5 wut 21:01 sfan5 just look at the poll votes 21:01 VanessaE ... 21:01 nore paramat: just look at the results of *both* polls 21:01 paramat how about the thousands who are queitly content? 21:02 paramat (quietly) 21:02 Fixer i had no problems with getting mese lamps tbh, and after recipe change lamps should be easy to obtain 21:02 asl97 there are thousands of user? 21:02 sfan5 paramat: you mean the people that haven't voiced their concerns? 21:02 Fixer we can leave everything as it is, with lamps required to grow stuff underground 21:02 VanessaE if those thousands want their opinions heard, they can vote or otherwise speak up. 21:02 paramat the poll shows option 1 has almost as much support as the others 21:03 sfan5 you can't go and assume peoples opinion 21:03 sfan5 "almost" is quite a strech 21:03 Shara Could also assume many people are not happy with current behaviour and didn't hear about this. 21:03 paramat it's the 2nd most popular after 4 21:04 paramat first choices: 4 has 10, 1 has 7 21:04 Fixer i've heared complaint from zeno, hmm-mmmm-m, maikerumine about that, but I was fine with it and didn't heared much else 21:04 sfan5 why does the second most popular matter? 21:04 nore paramat: yes, but look at downvotes 21:04 paramat the thumbs up/down is confusing 21:04 nore 4 has 5, 1 has 12 21:05 paramat well the up/down votes make deciding the vote difficult 21:05 sfan5 you could add those up 21:05 sofar http://i.imgur.com/zVZmc42.png 21:05 sfan5 the emoticon vote option is what makes it difficult 21:05 paramat does an up/down vote count as much as a first choice what's the weighting? it's a mess 21:06 sfan5 i guess the "first choice" vote can be counted like a normal one and could be used to decide when a tire occurrs 21:06 sofar there are two ways to read the poll data 21:06 sofar 1) look at which is preferred 21:06 sofar 2) look at which is disliked the least 21:06 sofar the default behavior we implement should be least disliked 21:07 sofar and possibly also most preferred 21:07 paramat problem is we will now argue how to weight the different emotivores :] 21:07 paramat (emotivotes) 21:07 sofar so if you disregard the thumbs ups ("I like this and would settle for it") 21:07 sofar and instead focus on smileys ("This is how I'd like to play the best") 21:08 sofar and keep in mind the thumbs downs 21:08 sofar I think the poll results are fairly clear 21:08 sofar most agreable people will be OK with almost all options 21:08 sofar and that's shown in the thumbs ups 21:08 sofar but we shouldn't decide default behavior based on that 21:09 sofar so, all in all, there's a ton of good data in the poll results, already 21:10 sofar it also shows me that people want underground growing to be possible, but harder 21:10 sofar only 1/4 players object to it being harder 21:10 VanessaE I've got a really nice underground orchard on my creative server. built before all this shit happened. 21:10 sofar s/players/voters 21:10 rubenwardy it also shows me that people want underground growing to be possible with torches, but harder 21:10 sofar rubenwardy: yes 21:10 VanessaE sofar: unterminated 's' command :P 21:11 sofar VanessaE: shopt +s pedantic 21:11 paramat a straight adding up gives 4 in lead with 1 and 4 tieing 2nd 21:11 sofar adding isn't the right way 21:12 sofar the forum poll is the same voters pretty much anyway 21:12 paramat Vanessa my suggestion will give you a setting to choose required light level 21:12 VanessaE the right way is instant run-off if you must do anything besides taking one option as "most preferred" right out of the gate. 21:12 paramat but this option is being refused 21:12 paramat from the poll 21:13 sofar I've explained why 21:13 paramat i know .. 21:13 sofar please read my last comment on the github thread 21:13 paramat ok will do 21:13 VanessaE paramat: I don't recall refusing the idea of a setting, myself, however a setting ought not be needed in the first place. 21:14 paramat it keeps everyone happy while avoiding a messy compromise (4) 21:14 VanessaE 4 is a messy compromise?? 21:14 rubenwardy it adds complexity 21:14 sofar none of the options translate into code directly 21:15 nore paramat: yes, I'd like some explanation about that 21:15 VanessaE rubenwardy: not at all. I've already done something like that before. 21:15 rubenwardy I support 4 - but it still adds complexity 21:15 nore it would be quite easy to do actually, and won't hurt performance as saplings use nodetimers now 21:15 VanessaE the bushes in plantlife use a single ABM to grow at different speeds depending whether they're on grass or hoed soil 21:16 sofar I'll probably have the code ready in a day, shrug 21:16 rubenwardy It isn't the complex if you ignore changing light levels 21:16 sofar I've spent more time on this poll :) 21:16 rubenwardy *as 21:16 sfan5 what would changing light levels have to do with it? 21:16 sofar rubenwardy: yes, changing light levels is something we'll have to work out somehow 21:17 sofar sfan5: planting at night 21:17 sfan5 dunno having trees only grow during the day seems fine 21:17 sfan5 also there's a function to return the day light level 21:18 sofar it's an edge case, I'll need to think about it for a bit 21:18 sofar ah! yes, of course there is 21:18 paramat well, i would be ok with 4 as long as there's a setting to keep current behaviour. also remember those who like the old behaviour want plants grown by torches to grow at normal speed 21:18 sofar I would make 2 settings, and then you can slide those all the way from wuzzy's nothing-grows-outside-sunlight to all the listed options 21:19 paramat so, esentially, my poll concern is that the inevitability of options and settings is not stated clearly in the first post, could you edit? 21:20 paramat otherwise people will vote differently 21:20 sofar I would however consider redoing saplings a bit to use the farming code internals so we don't have to do it twice 21:21 paramat (essentially) 21:21 paramat Anyway i'm a bit happier now, thank you 21:30 hmmmm i think both of the polls are broken 21:31 hmmmm it could be better if users could rank their preferences 21:33 est31 preferential voting 21:33 est31 quite nice system 21:33 est31 should be used in US elections 21:34 sfan5 US elections have some other problems 21:34 Fixer i agree with hmmmm, it is difficult to choose one 21:34 Fixer thats why I posted my message with explanation of what I prefer in descending order 21:35 hmmmm i would prefer for this to be the default voting method 21:35 hmmmm and i don't agree that users should have no say 21:35 hmmmm this is supposed to be the for and by the community 21:35 VanessaE est31: actually preferential voting is used in Maine (for US president, no less) 21:36 est31 VanessaE: heard it, quite cool 21:36 nore est31: unfortunately, there's the Condorcet paradox 21:36 est31 now only 49 other states to follow :) 21:36 nore ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_paradox ) 21:37 hmmmm if the users get told they have a voice, and then their voice gets ignored, what does that say about the devs? 21:37 nore hmmmm: that devs don't care about players 21:37 nore so the vote of users shouldn't be ignored 21:38 est31 where is the link 21:38 est31 to the poll 21:46 Krock est31, the one on the forum? https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16332 21:52 est31 thanks 22:09 rubenwardy #4966 22:09 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4966 -- Use tree to list mods rather than textlist by rubenwardy 22:10 juhdanad Another suggestion: let's add a sunlight-emitting node to the game! (I mentioned bioluminescent fungi earlier) 22:10 juhdanad This would allow totally different constructions. 22:11 juhdanad https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e8/PanellusStipticusAug12_2009.jpg 22:11 paramat light level 15? that causes light bugs 22:11 rubenwardy sun lamp 22:11 rubenwardy oops 22:11 rubenwardy mese lamp 22:12 juhdanad paramat: in the day light bank! The fungi follows the day-night cycle. 22:12 juhdanad (at least ingame) 22:13 paramat i think it's good to reserve 14 for growlamps suitable for growing plants, then 13 for bright lights not suitable as growlamps 22:14 paramat ah i see 23:23 paramat game#1498 23:23 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1498 -- All 3 sands craft to sandstone, sandstone crafts to 1 sand type 23:43 Wayward_One #4992 23:43 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4992 -- Android build failure (undefined references)