Time Nick Message 01:06 Zeno` The change to _game was made a year ago? 01:06 Zeno` How was it not opposed? O.O 01:09 VanessaE well the only thing to do is fix it. 01:10 Zeno` well, the problem there is we will have a schism 01:10 Zeno` with a whole release that's out of whack (if this was indeed changed 1 year ago in the wrong place; i.e. in _game) 01:11 Zeno` and anyway only 2 of us (maybe 3) are allowed to merge to _game anyway 01:11 VanessaE all right, G*d damn it. 01:11 VanessaE parmat, wake up and get your ass in here. 01:11 VanessaE paramat* 01:14 VanessaE to be blunt, these kind of shit needs to stop 01:14 VanessaE this* 01:46 sofar what change are we talking about? 01:47 VanessaE sofar: how light (as in 1-15) corresponds with the visual rendered result and how it affects growing stuff. 01:47 VanessaE I guess it's because a year ago, more light became required to grow crops than what a torch could produce 01:48 VanessaE and the new lighting table you guys are working on may be compounding that 01:48 VanessaE (the one for the rendering stage) 01:48 sofar the light table is just a visual effect 01:48 sofar the grow stages is linked to the nodes light level 01:48 VanessaE I think that's the whole issue. 01:49 Zeno` yes, and the nodes' light levels are potentially going to be changes 01:49 Zeno` d 01:49 sofar I would be totally OK with bright torches 01:49 Zeno` how they look visually makes no difference at all 01:49 VanessaE if a torch seems too bright, just use fewer of them 01:49 sofar it does for visibility 01:49 VanessaE it's not like players ever only place just one 01:49 VanessaE they use dozens 01:49 sofar that's why I wanted them brighter 01:49 sofar torch spam is a form of grief imho 01:49 Zeno` for visibility, yes, but for game mechanics the display/visual light levels make no difference 01:50 Zeno` whereas changing the nodes' light level affects a lot of things 01:50 sofar I think we just need to come up with some compromise 01:50 sofar e.g. require 12 to grow crops, and 13 for saplings 01:50 sofar make torches 13, mese lamps 14 01:50 sofar soemthing like that 01:51 VanessaE saplings just grow on a timer, regardless of light, I thought 01:51 Zeno` no, they need light 01:51 sofar ./default/trees.lua: if not light_level or light_level < 13 then 01:51 VanessaE huh. 01:51 VanessaE well ok 01:51 sofar all the same function I think now 01:51 VanessaE in any case, 01:52 VanessaE let's just fix it 01:52 sofar afk (dinner/new years etc.) 01:54 Zeno` doing that in the _game would still make a lot of mods broken though 01:55 VanessaE perhaps, but what else can be done? 01:55 Zeno` just tweak the light levels in the engine 01:55 Zeno` the display light levels I mean 01:55 VanessaE you know me, I'm one for backward compatibility when it's practical, but if there's no choice but to break a bunch of shit...? 01:55 hmmmm slight problem with that 01:56 hmmmm i had plans for adjusting the display light levels with client-side biomes 01:56 hmmmm should it be a user setting, i wonder? 01:56 VanessaE hmmmm: that's a nice idea and all but frankly, out of scope for this issue :-/ 01:56 hmmmm well i think this is a silly issue 01:56 hmmmm just don't touch anything any more 01:56 hmmmm leave it the way it is right now 01:56 VanessaE it's too late for that 01:57 hmmmm how so? 01:57 VanessaE because it would seem that we need to roll back to light relationships that were in place a year ago 01:57 VanessaE and THEN adapt the rendering table 01:58 sofar how about we define required light levels in the nodedef? 01:58 hmmmm when you say light relationships 01:58 VanessaE principle of least surprise would say that users should just use more or fewer light sources if they don't like the result 01:58 hmmmm what do you mean there 01:58 sofar same way we can define the schematics in the nodedef and get rid of the stupid sapling lookup code 01:58 VanessaE rather than changing *what* sources they use e.g. to grow a sapling or wheat or whatever 01:58 VanessaE that's what I mean 01:58 VanessaE but I can't speak for Zeno` 02:00 Zeno` I don't care what happens with display/visual light brightness 02:00 hmmmm so just to make sure i'm not misunderstanding, you're saying that there is an issue because players don't like the current perceived brightness of the torches due to the light LUT change? 02:00 Zeno` It's changing nodedefs that concern me 02:00 sofar hmmmm: I don't think people are complaining about the visual light levels (most people I've seen respond say it's good) 02:01 hmmmm yes, and i agree 02:01 Zeno` well, why change nodedefs then? 02:01 hmmmm so could someone tell me what the *issue* is? 02:01 hmmmm nobody needs to change anything 02:01 Zeno` the issue is that paramat wants to change them 02:01 hmmmm and there is a massive opposition to his proposed change 02:01 hmmmm it's called a pull REQUEST for a reason 02:01 Zeno` good :) So no issue then 02:01 hmmmm request denied 02:02 hmmmm I suppose not being able to grow trees with only torches is fine 02:02 VanessaE change the light levels at the rendering stage, using sofar's or Zeno`s table or something. if necessary, fix farming plants, saplings, etc so that they grow well with the current node def light levels of torches et al. 02:02 hmmmm annoying change to game mechanics but whatever 02:02 VanessaE and for G*d sakes, add a mese lamp that isn't an ugly-ass 1m cube. 02:02 hmmmm VanessaE: why though 02:02 hmmmm not what, why 02:03 VanessaE why, which part? 02:03 hmmmm why do you need to do 02:03 hmmmm [09:02 PM] change the light levels at the rendering stage, using sofar's or Zeno`s table or something. if necessary, fix farming plants, saplings, etc so that they grow well with the current node def light levels of torches et al. 02:03 hmmmm this 02:03 VanessaE because the existing rendering table (well, what I last saw) makes, and always has made, everything look too dark. 02:03 hmmmm the new rendering table is fine 02:03 VanessaE did you see all those screenshots fixer posted a while back? 02:04 hmmmm not really 02:04 VanessaE how "new" is "new"? 02:04 sofar currently, *my* table is in master (that PR was accepted) 02:04 VanessaE ok, then I accept that. 02:04 hmmmm as of right now, 12/31/16, the light levels we have are great 02:04 Zeno` well, if visual light levels need tweaking that is the approach I've been recommending all along, and not change the nodedefs 02:04 hmmmm don't screw with it 02:04 hmmmm ;; 02:04 sofar so the only thing remaining is farming mechanics 02:04 VanessaE then leave the new rendering table in place. 02:04 VanessaE I'm fine with it. 02:04 hmmmm me too 02:04 VanessaE so fix the farming mod and saplings et al. 02:05 hmmmm so what needs to get fixed with the saplings exactly 02:05 VanessaE apparently they need too much light to grow 02:05 VanessaE making underground farming impossible 02:05 hmmmm well that's controversial 02:05 hmmmm are you for or against? 02:05 VanessaE I am in favor of lowering the required light levels of those growable nodes. 02:06 hmmmm personally, i could go either way. i miss the fact that a cool game mechanic i used to create underground tree farms is dead, but i can adapt 02:06 VanessaE but not in favor of changing the light source values of torches etc (yet). 02:06 hmmmm what do you think about the mese lamp thing though 02:06 Zeno` I can adapt as well... but for existing worlds I guess they'll just have to never update minetest_game 02:06 hmmmm :/ 02:06 hmmmm yeah agreed 02:06 hmmmm server owners are going to have to never update minetest_game, OR 02:07 Zeno` it was a very cool and IMO necessary (for deep, deep mining) for underground wood sources but *sigh* 02:07 hmmmm a mod could be added to minetest_game that's disabled by default, that does nothing more but override the grow function for trees 02:07 Zeno` we could make a migration script or something as well 02:07 hmmmm server owners would be able to update MT game, and enable that mod 02:07 hmmmm no script needed even 02:07 Zeno` it all sounds awfully complicated though hehhe 02:07 Zeno` hmm, true 02:07 VanessaE as for the mese lamp... for now, it should be the brightest light source in the game, but as an ugly-ass cube, well.. no. add something else to go with it, same light level, but looks more like a common grow lamp or whatever 02:08 hmmmm pretty sure paramat is already working on a better mese lamp 02:08 sofar this is why I want to move farming parameters into the nodedef, then people can easily make an init.lua with a minetest.override() that puts a new light level needed for growing in the nodedef 02:08 VanessaE hmmmm: to be perfectly honest, what's the delay on that? this isn't something one should need to "work on"... 02:08 hmmmm sofar: that's reasonable to me, when you put it that way 02:09 hmmmm VanessaE, it'd have to be a meshnode, no? 02:09 hmmmm you can't exactly churn those out in a few minutes time 02:09 VanessaE hmmmm: if it were up to me, sure. but you know as well as I do that it won't be. 02:09 hmmmm well we dunno yet 02:09 hmmmm we'll see soon enough 02:09 hmmmm paramat is EST + 6 i think 02:10 VanessaE and,...um...well... actually, I could churn one out in a few minutes if you wanted a really simple one. ;) 02:10 VanessaE EST+6 maybe, but this has been an issue for a few days now 02:10 hmmmm is it really that critical 02:10 VanessaE so he's had time, if he intends to make one. honestly, I expect it'll be a nodebox not too different from a fencepost 02:10 hmmmm that a couple days is enough to complain about 02:11 hmmmm it's a 3d model that visually represents a specific pattern of 16 ones and zeros 02:11 hmmmm for a video game 02:11 hmmmm nobody's dying 02:11 VanessaE (I'm not saying paramat isn't creative, btw. I'm saying he's conservative - seems like no one wants to really exploit meshnodes in mt_game) 02:11 hmmmm nsj 02:11 hmmmm bah* are you kidding me? 02:11 VanessaE I'm quite serious. 02:11 hmmmm maybe conservative with visual styling, but minetest_game gets some ridiculous propositions from him 02:12 Zeno` phew 02:12 hmmmm by ridiculous i mean changing game mechanics in a big way 02:12 hmmmm not necessarily bad 02:12 VanessaE I meant the visual styling, actually; but really, look at mt_game. can you spot one thing in it that couldn't have been done before mesh nodes? 02:12 hmmmm absolutely not 02:12 hmmmm what would celeron say? 02:12 hmmmm i know he doesn't like meshnodes but nodeboxes, maybe? 02:12 VanessaE he'd say he doesn't care enough to change it :P 02:12 hmmmm of course 02:13 Zeno` I think he would oppose changes to nodebox light levels though 02:13 hmmmm i mean i agree we need a strong lead on visual style for mt_game 02:13 hmmmm Zeno`: you mean torch light levels 02:13 hmmmm ? 02:13 VanessaE hmmmm: let me put it this way - you ever looked at my/Dan's ilights mod? 02:13 Zeno` mostly yes 02:13 hmmmm i haven't no 02:13 hmmmm this should be consensus based 02:14 hmmmm no design by committee, just what a simple majority wants it to be like 02:14 VanessaE https://daconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/screenshots/ilights.png 02:14 VanessaE there. That's over-complex for mt_game of course 02:14 hmmmm yeah absolutely 02:14 VanessaE but it's an example of something you can do that looks good and doesn't go apeshit 02:14 hmmmm something simpler than that but you can do something very neat looking for mese lamps 02:14 VanessaE imagine a "mese lamp" that looks like the yellow one, but simplified 02:14 hmmmm yeah 02:15 VanessaE yeah, see we're on the same page here 02:15 hmmmm i mean mese lamps is supposed to be alien tecnhology right? 02:15 hmmmm or is mese an alien material and humans make use of it... 02:15 VanessaE it's an "alien artifact" 02:15 Zeno` I think it's alien something 02:15 VanessaE of course redefined all to hell 02:15 hmmmm who cares man 02:16 hmmmm just make it look cool, and make it a nodebox or meshnode 02:16 hmmmm problem solved 02:16 hmmmm in fact VanessaE if you want to put together a simple PR to get the ball rolling i would not object to you using the yellow lamp model right there in that screenshot 02:16 hmmmm seriously 02:17 hmmmm (see how i just delegated work to somebody else? :-P) 02:17 VanessaE heh 02:17 Zeno` very cunning 02:17 VanessaE I'd submit a PR but you know as well as I that paramat will throw it out 02:17 Zeno` I try that with VE all the time but she just tells me to fsck off 02:17 VanessaE yeah, fsck off. :) 02:17 hmmmm Zeno`: don't you mean "f**k off"? 02:18 Zeno` that'll do :) 02:18 Zeno` VanessaE, but you already have the model 02:18 VanessaE besides, I'm too busy binge-watching The Simpsons :P 02:18 hmmmm yeah idunno 02:18 Zeno` how long would the PR take to make? :P 02:18 hmmmm paramat is a big contributor to mtgame but not the only voice 02:18 hmmmm again this all needs to be consensus based 02:19 VanessaE of course there's one problem with all of this 02:19 VanessaE your 7+1 lighting idea. maybe it should be instituted first? 02:19 VanessaE otherwise, aren't we just setting up for another clusterfuck later? 02:19 hmmmm 7+1 lighting thing is dead 02:19 VanessaE well, shit. 02:19 hmmmm i was talking with that junhedad whatever guy 02:20 hmmmm i saw him make a couple of PRs, pretty good 02:20 hmmmm he's done a lot of thinking about lighting as well 02:20 VanessaE (juhdanad) 02:20 hmmmm yeah that 02:20 VanessaE so what's his plan? I missed that convo 02:20 Zeno` 7+1 was how it used to be in the past I very vaguely recall 02:20 VanessaE (or didn't really "get it") 02:20 Zeno` and there is an obscure comment that doesn't make sense in one of the old LUTs 02:21 hmmmm well the fundamental issue with 7+1 is that it comingles separate light sources together 02:21 VanessaE hmm. 02:21 hmmmm the specific case where it falls apart is when you have a difference between day_light and night_light 02:22 hmmmm like the day_light is darker than the night light 02:22 Zeno` dat bad 02:23 VanessaE well surely that's more a problem at the rendering stage than the nodedef? 02:23 hmmmm err switch that around 02:23 Zeno` -# We want 0 at light=0 and 255 at light=LIGHT_MAX 02:23 Zeno` -LIGHT_MAX = 14 02:23 hmmmm if you have full day light, and then a dimmer night light 02:24 Zeno` I have no idea what that means but it's probably ancient 02:24 hmmmm then at night the air node would still be lit 02:24 VanessaE ah 02:25 hmmmm and before you say, "just check the nodedef for its light_source!" 02:25 hmmmm consider if the node is air where light is spread, not a source itself 02:25 Zeno` Why don't you just check the nodedef for its light_source? (KIDDING) 02:25 VanessaE the only way to solve that is for all nodes to be dark, unless they have a light source, and add sunlight (or moonlight) at the rendering stage 02:25 hmmmm yeah that's one thing 02:26 hmmmm see, what you're doing there is removing a light source from having to be stored 02:26 hmmmm the issue is that we have two distinct light sources 02:26 VanessaE indeed 02:26 hmmmm sun and artificial 02:26 hmmmm sun is only "on" during the day, whereas artificial light sources are always-on 02:27 hmmmm the way the lighting algorithms were imagined though is that one light "bank" is active during the day, and the other is "active" during the night, and you blend the two together 02:27 hmmmm that's an equally valid way of looking at it but i think it all makes more sense if you consider the sun a light source that can be switched on and off, and the artificial light sources can be switched on and off 02:28 hmmmm the artifical light sources all being combined into one light bank too is a simplification 02:28 hmmmm really you should have X+1 number of light banks for a given mapnode, where X is the maximum number of light sources in a mapblock 02:30 VanessaE mmmh 02:37 VanessaE maybe I'm just too simplistic about this :P 02:40 VanessaE but to me, only artificial sources ought affect the map, and that stored light should only be re-calculated and re-stored when a light source is added or removed. sun/moon should be added at the rendering stage for display, and added to the value loaded from the map when something queries the light level 02:41 hmmmm but why can't artificial light sources be the same? 02:41 VanessaE what do you mean? 02:46 VanessaE any way you slice it, you have to iterate through the nodes in the vicinity of a light source when you add/remove it, and similarly, all those stored light values still have to be read and displayed. adding a single integer to them (and capping the result) seems like it shouldn't be too heavy 02:47 VanessaE (well, two integers - since sun and moon are both visible for a short while at sunrise/set) 02:48 Zeno` just nuke the moon 02:48 VanessaE Zeno`: I think xkcd proved that that wouldn't actually have much effect :) 02:48 Zeno` *sigh* 02:48 VanessaE https://what-if.xkcd.com/13/ 02:48 Zeno` oh well, it was a good idea at the time 02:51 VanessaE hmmmm: you'll have to bear with me if I sound totally stupid on this stuff. 03:01 hmmmm VanessaE: If the light sources were hardware then you would not need to store anything at all 03:01 hmmmm since it'd all be computed at render time by the gpu 03:02 VanessaE true, but we can't do that. 03:02 hmmmm it knows the geometry, textures, position of the light, light characteristics, etc. 03:03 hmmmm new year's in less than 2 hours 03:03 VanessaE http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2016/12/live_new_years_eve_2017_ball_drop_live_stream_from.html 03:03 hmmmm i gotta bbl 03:03 VanessaE here's a stream for it if you want to avoid ABC 03:03 hmmmm lol 03:03 hmmmm i'm not alone 03:04 VanessaE (it ain't "new year's rockin' eve" but at least you can see the ball drop) 03:04 hmmmm love to stay and chat, but i am obligated to do party celebration type things now 03:04 VanessaE cya 03:04 VanessaE get drunk. 03:04 VanessaE :P 06:12 hmmmm happy new year! 06:13 VanessaE happy new year :) 06:26 Zeno` err, you're 14.5 hours late! 06:26 Zeno` but happy new year! 06:26 hmmmm EST 06:27 Zeno` est31, hmmmm is trying to contact you 06:27 hmmmm pshh 06:27 hmmmm happy new year to you to est31 06:27 hmmmm but i just had my new year an hour and 30 minutes ago 06:28 VanessaE est31: happy new year, damn it :) 06:28 * Zeno` bursts balloons 06:32 hmmmm ok i'm really drunk now 06:32 hmmmm time to start coding minetst 06:32 hmmmm minetest 06:32 * VanessaE raises a glass to hmmmm 06:33 hmmmm or mebbe i pass out on this couch 06:33 VanessaE I'm quite comfortably plastered :) 06:33 hmmmm yeah i'm gonna cut it early tonight guys 06:33 hmmmm so tired 06:33 VanessaE ok, sleep well 06:33 hmmmm fbbbbbbbbbbb 06:33 Zeno` pass out well, hmmmm xD 06:34 hmmmm i had 2 glasses of baileys 06:34 hmmmm 2 white russians 06:34 Zeno` :-o 06:34 hmmmm 1 dogfish head 60 minute 06:34 Zeno` those russians! 06:34 hmmmm they hacked the elections bro 06:34 hmmmm :) 06:34 Zeno` lol 06:34 hmmmm lol 06:34 Zeno` I saw that 06:34 hmmmm i'm being facetious 06:34 VanessaE I've been consuming far more champagne and spark---^Wbarely glistening wine than I should :) 06:34 hmmmm and then i had lots of champagne 06:34 Zeno` and they had to do it on US soil instead of from Russia! 06:34 hmmmm i think i drank more than half the bottle 06:35 Zeno` so they sent the Hax0rs home 06:35 Zeno` what a load of shite 06:35 hmmmm well 06:35 hmmmm i don't doubt they had really implanted malware into a DNC computer 06:35 Zeno` doesn't the US do the same? 06:35 hmmmm that's pretty par for the course for any sufficiently advanced nation state, nevermind a rival 06:35 hmmmm yes it does 06:35 Zeno` and AUS and... yeah 06:35 hmmmm however leaked emails 06:36 hmmmm not so much 06:36 hmmmm anthony weiner was probably the source of the leak 06:36 Zeno` yeah, he whines a lot so it most likely *was* him 06:36 hmmmm and even so, if they were "unimportant" like the establishment democrats claimed, then it had no bearing on the results 06:36 hmmmm so much bullshit 06:36 hmmmm i can't stand it 06:37 Zeno` I told a friend of mine the other day that the moon is made of cheese 06:37 hmmmm remmeber back in 1976 when the USA rigged the australian election 06:37 Zeno` (he's 6) 06:37 hmmmm ;; 06:37 hmmmm lol 06:37 Zeno` and he said "That's bullshit Craig" 06:37 hmmmm thats the same age as my 2 lil nephews 06:37 Zeno` and stomped off 06:37 hmmmm they're so much fun at 6 06:37 Zeno` yeah hehhe 06:37 hmmmm lol 06:38 hmmmm alright really forreal now later m8 06:38 hmmmm m80 06:39 diemartin m79 works better 06:39 diemartin at least for mt code 06:40 Zeno` night 06:40 diemartin aaaaand Im on the hiiiiighway to helllll... or something 06:41 Zeno` lol 06:41 * Zeno` whorls his cowboy hat around his head 06:42 Zeno` I think I'm the only one sober and I've had 2 beers 06:42 Zeno` err wait... does that mean I'm not sober 06:43 diemartin o sht this is dev sorry 06:43 Zeno` lol 06:45 * OldCoder assumes not sober is off topic 06:46 VanessaE OldCoder: it's new year's morning. drunk is quite on-topic for the moment :) 06:48 Zeno` even VE is drunk 06:49 Zeno` this is quite an event 06:49 OldCoder VanessaE, Seasons Greetings to you 06:50 diemartin bah, an event would be z 06:50 diemartin Ve not drunk 06:50 VanessaE my friend, I am drunk as two skunks :D 06:50 OldCoder Two are drunker than one? 06:51 * OldCoder is sleepy and not sure of the math 06:51 VanessaE yes :) 06:51 OldCoder Very well! 06:51 * OldCoder has suspended beer entirely. But was handed Grand Marnier (spelling) tonight. 06:52 OldCoder It is hard to describe. Similar to liquid marmalade that is intoxicating. 06:59 est31 HAPPY NEW YEAR 06:59 est31 everyone 06:59 est31 (its 8 AM in my country lol) 06:59 VanessaE happy new year, est31 10:09 nrzkt happy new year 2017, may minetest be less laggy and cheated than before :) 14:09 nrzkt i'm fixing the breath cheat by backporting one fix from my fork, i will provide a PR soon. For HP i have it too except for falling 14:30 sfan5 nrzkt: you mean doing breath server-side? 14:31 nrzkt ofc 14:31 nrzkt it's quite easy i already have the fix, just need to fix one crash & check the creative mode 14:31 nrzkt i also has it for HP (partially), i just need to backport it 14:36 VanessaE fall damage should be easy to enforce server-side also. 14:36 juhdanad Hi and happy new year to all! 14:37 VanessaE happy new year, juhdanad 14:37 juhdanad I have a suggestion: lighting would be less controversial if plants grew on dimmer light levels too, but with less probability. 14:37 nrzkt VanessaE, it's not the easiest because you don't have the client physics servers side 14:39 VanessaE nrzkt: seems to me that you can at least detect when the client "should" have hit something, and figure the time from the last reported position to there. short enough time for the distance == kill the player 14:39 VanessaE (I wouldn't bother trying to calculate actual damage, so much as being sure they're dead) 14:39 nrzkt it's less simple than that 14:39 nrzkt imagine you respawn => kill, you teleport using a ingame object => kill, etc 14:40 nrzkt you take a lift => kill 14:40 VanessaE true but I assume you'd filter out things like that 14:40 VanessaE anything involving a teleport 14:40 nrzkt yes, then not simple. 14:41 VanessaE maybe not "simple" but surely doable 14:41 Calinou fall damage should be easy to enforce server-side also. 14:41 Calinou though it can be incorrect 14:41 Calinou especially since player positions are sent only 10 times a second 14:41 Calinou (it should be accurate enough for most use cases though) 14:42 VanessaE Calinou: that's why I figured only look for obvious kills 14:42 VanessaE you don't have to have a perfect solution, just good enough to make the client modification pointless 14:43 nrzkt no a pefect solution is required here due to different mod possibilities 15:14 nrzkt here is the first preview: #4978 15:14 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4978 -- Breath cheat fix: server side by nerzhul 15:14 nrzkt i need to restore the old behaviour for old servers to prevent cheating on non updated servers... lol 15:16 juhdanad Thanks for working on this, it is a serious exploit. 15:17 nrzkt juhdanad, atm it's only breaht, HP a little bit more complicated but i already did the main part 15:21 est31 okay, I think I have a job offer for minetest core devs 15:21 est31 there is a young company, they want to use minetest for teaching kids 15:22 est31 and it seems they are going forward with minetest, and need someone to adapt it to their needs 15:22 est31 if you are interested, contact me via pm 15:23 est31 their website: http://kidscode.com 15:24 est31 (you might know them from a forum post) 15:25 octacian huh, interesting. and I did see the forums post. too bad I don't know C++ otherwise I might be interested in helping... 15:25 nrzkt est31, interesting but what are their needs with MT ? 15:26 juhdanad I assume this would be a new fork. May the changes be pulled back to the main branch? 15:26 est31 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxOg2574OEU 15:28 nrzkt sfan5, did you have the client version stats ? and server version stats? could be interesting to know 15:28 sfan5 only client version stats here -> https://kitsunemimi.pw/tmp/ 15:28 est31 nrzkt: server version stats: https://gist.github.com/est31/66602d589b225b27afd5 15:29 est31 also very easy to re-do 15:29 est31 (no privileged access to server infra needed) 15:30 nrzkt if we add anticheat the server version is very important to ensure it's working, and client version too 15:31 sfan5 well it'd need a protocol bump 15:31 octacian est31: I still don't quite get what MT things would need to be adapted from the video. 15:31 nrzkt sfan5, i did it 15:31 nrzkt it's forced pushed 15:32 nrzkt i saw the minimum protocol version is 13... maybe it could be interesting to raise this for next release 15:32 nrzkt TOSERVER_BREATH was added in v21 of the protocol in 2013 15:33 nrzkt maybe we can raise minimum version to at lease 21 15:33 nrzkt least* 15:33 nrzkt better should be protocol v23 which added TOSERVER_CLIENT_READY apr2014 15:33 nrzkt more than 2 years ago 15:34 nore btw, do we have the code of this hacked client or not? 15:34 nrzkt nore Zeno showed me and it was very simple it comment the shitty client part for damaged & breath, and taht's all 15:35 nore nrzkt: well, these were not all the hacks, were they? 15:35 est31 excerpt from the email: 15:35 est31 The first assignment is likely to be a audit with a plan to correct Minetest pitfalls and move to a platform which is as operational and reliable for schools as possible. If we could have one or two of the main developers working with us for this, it would be really great. 15:35 nrzkt not a server hack, just a protocol standard usage :p 15:35 nrzkt hmmm there is one bug to fix with my pr 15:36 nrzkt there is an underflow somewhere 15:37 nrzkt okay fixed 15:39 sfan5 nore: i have also read the changed source, it's mainly patching the client to ignore what the server says 15:40 sfan5 that is mostly useless though since things like dieing, tool wear and punch damage are server-side 15:40 nore yeah 15:41 nore but I guess the client can just send its position again after "dieing", can't it? 15:41 sfan5 the server ignores any interaction or movement when the player is dead 15:42 nore of course, but what I meant is that the client asks for respawn, and then, sends its old position again 15:42 sfan5 that would cause the "moved too fast" check to trigger 15:43 nore hmm 15:43 nrzkt yes, for tools it's already prevented by server 15:43 nrzkt only remaining "bugs" are breath & HP 15:43 nore wasn't it often disabled on servers because it triggered too often? 15:43 nrzkt please review #4978 and tell me 15:43 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4978 -- Breath cheat fix: server side by nerzhul 15:44 sfan5 if you do disable_anticheat = true then don't come complaining about cheaters 15:44 sfan5 also would be nice if someone could review #4952 15:44 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4952 -- TileAnimation refactor & 2D sheet animation by sfan5 15:48 nrzkt sfan5, why did you remove the blocker thing ? cheating is a blocking issue 15:49 sfan5 blocker label only makes sense when there's a release soon 15:49 est31 yeah 15:49 est31 what sfan5 said 15:49 sfan5 high priority is a better label for that purpose 15:49 est31 ++ 15:49 nrzkt okay :) 15:49 nrzkt est31, sfan5 please test & review & merge :p 15:53 Fixer Happy New Year! https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0_xARzWIAEhvqE.jpg:large 15:56 nrzkt est31, nore sfan5 => #4679 15:56 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4679 -- Add unittests to test player saving/loading by nerzhul 15:56 nrzkt #4979 sorry 15:56 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4979 -- Raise minimum protocol version to 23. by nerzhul 16:04 paramat nore sfan5 sofar please can anyone approve game#1481 ? very much needed 16:04 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1481 -- Default: More generous meselamp recipe by paramat 16:05 juhdanad I know I wrote that but maybe you did not notice: lighting would be less controversial if plants grew on dimmer light levels too, but with less probability. 16:05 juhdanad *wrote that earlier 16:07 paramat yes i saw, i'm not keen 16:10 paramat torches are staying at 13, so you would then be able to grow stuff with torches, which has never been allowed in MT, quite rightly 16:11 juhdanad Sorry, I just wanted to help... 16:11 paramat no problem :] 18:39 Fixer https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/4967 this is niiice one 20:33 nrzkt est31, is this an approval for #4978 ? i'm fixing the point you noticed and used the MYMIN mentionned by Krock 20:33 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4978 -- Breath cheat fix: server side by nerzhul 20:34 est31 generally the code looks good but I'm not sure whether the concept is good 20:34 est31 err 20:34 est31 it is sorry 20:34 est31 +1 20:35 nrzkt thanks :) 20:36 nrzkt i will merge it later this evening, except if somebody wants to do it before, then he is free :) 20:48 sfan5 est31: please review #4952 if you have time 20:48 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4952 -- TileAnimation refactor & 2D sheet animation by sfan5 20:49 sfan5 if a protocol bump is happening anyway then it would make sense to merge that too 20:50 est31 sfan5: -1 sorry, 2d sheet animation is bad imo 20:51 sfan5 because? 20:51 est31 whats the point 20:51 est31 also, its more complicated format 20:51 sfan5 it's 20:51 sfan5 * requested by modders 20:52 sfan5 * more common in general 20:52 sfan5 * nicer to edit (https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/4774#issuecomment-262310015) 20:54 est31 mhh 20:54 sfan5 it doesn't hurt to support it even if it is minimally more complicated 20:54 est31 I think I'll stay neutral in the discussion 20:56 sfan5 would still be nice if you could review the code 22:11 nrzkt rubenwardy, sfan5 fixed the remaining style/typo fixes 22:15 nrzkt if no more objections or fixes, i will merge that in ~30min 22:53 sfan5 hm 22:54 sfan5 nrzkt: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/4978/files#diff-2e027fdc3655b827284be99af7143dfbL196 why is that removed 22:54 sfan5 the client might still need to send breath packets to older servers 22:56 nrzkt sfan5, oops, thanks for pointing this, it doesn't break the behaviour but make the packet unreliable only 22:56 nrzkt i push the fix now, forgot it 22:56 nrzkt i forgot to cancel this after my first push 22:58 nrzkt pushed 22:58 nrzkt sfan5, don't hesitate to add your opinion on #4979 22:58 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4979 -- Raise minimum protocol version to 23. by nerzhul 22:59 sfan5 sure 23:15 rubenwardy Merging game#1474 in 15... 23:15 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1474 -- decrease the value of gunpowder for trails by DS-Minetest 23:20 est31 sfan5: do you have an idea what the submitter wants? 23:20 est31 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4980 23:20 est31 we don't use C++14, not even C++11 23:20 sfan5 well dunno 23:20 sfan5 but this https://github.com/minetest/minetestmapper/blob/master/.travis.yml#L16L17 23:21 sfan5 it helps with testing the C++11 code paths i guess 23:21 est31 yeah 23:21 est31 also, we dont use experimental/filesystem 23:21 est31 its a bit weird because I've first thought this was some automated bot 23:22 sfan5 same 23:22 est31 idk, opening issues in all repos that have c++ and travis 23:22 est31 but we are the only repo to get a report 23:25 nrzkt i think this is a bot 23:26 rubenwardy it failed the turing test for me as well :) 23:40 rubenwardy Merging... 23:41 rubenwardy done 23:41 VanessaE you merged in a turing test? 23:43 rubenwardy :P game#1474 23:43 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1474 -- decrease the value of gunpowder for trails by DS-Minetest 23:43 Fixer about time, I never seen any trails on actual servers 23:44 sfan5 that might be because tnt is disabled by default in mp 23:45 Fixer on servers I played it was enabled 23:45 rubenwardy What does "Adoption Needed" in MTG mean? 23:45 Fixer maintainer is needed? 23:47 rubenwardy Yeah, that would make sense as to why there's 0 open or closed tickets with it on