Time  Nick         Message
00:08 Fixer        i'm suddenly worried about that furnace change
00:09 Fixer        right now on CashWorld server i've discovered curious furnace bug, i'm not sure it is in default, i will try to check
00:10 garywhite    What's going on Fixer?
00:14 Fixer        put cactus and sand in furnace to cook it, went to other area, came back, glass was done but cactus was still burning out very slowly, i put 10 sand in it and it cocked instantly
00:14 Fixer        maybe it is server-specific problem, no idea
00:29 Fixer        YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES
00:29 Fixer        found a gameplay blocking bug in new furnace
00:29 Fixer        reproduced in default
00:29 Fixer        i call it Instacook
00:30 Fixer        will post an issue soon
00:35 Fixer        https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1455 This needs attention
00:37 paramat      one for sofar
00:38 sofar        maybe, gotta drive home from work first
00:38 sofar        could just be lag, too
00:39 Fixer        sofar: singleplayer
00:39 Fixer        confirmed in singleplayer and on server
00:40 paramat      try to reproduce locally and with known latest game
00:40 Fixer        paramat: i've just did
00:41 Fixer        on Dec 9, 2016 build
00:42 paramat      oh just saw those messages
00:55 Fixer        will move from dec 9 to todays build tommorrow, too late to compile
01:09 Wuzzy        lol. diamond axe breaks earlier than mese axe. and nobody noticed it for years
01:09 garywhite    lolol
01:11 Wuzzy        and i always wondered why chopping down trees eat away my diamonds so quickly
01:11 Wuzzy        now I know. :)
01:11 Wuzzy        diamond axe = 270 uses. mese axe = 540 uses
01:13 paramat      hm
01:14 paramat      i think diamond was meant to be superior to mese
01:15 Wuzzy        yes
01:17 paramat      yeah it's a deeper ore too
01:17 paramat      could you open an issue?
01:19 Wuzzy        https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1456
01:22 garywhite    How many uses should a stone axe have? (I can test if you want)
01:22 paramat      thanks
01:22 Wuzzy        60 on normal tree
01:23 garywhite    Did you test or no?
01:23 Wuzzy        i calculated it
01:23 Wuzzy        but due to a bug, you will probably obtain 61 trees
01:24 Wuzzy        (this issue is also reported)
01:24 est31        Wuzzy: I can confirm the behaviour, but dont think its a bug
01:24 est31        minetest is a game, not everything must be straightforward
01:24 Wuzzy        ugh...
01:25 Wuzzy        270 uses is as much as a bronze axe...
01:25 Wuzzy        all diamond tools are the best ones ... except diamond axe for ... reasons
01:25 Wuzzy        so basically you can have the same durability as diamond axe if you just craft a bronze axe
01:26 Wuzzy        i am very sure this is just a simple typo
01:26 est31        well, in many games I know the most upgraded thing is not better than the second most upgraded thing
01:26 est31        some tower defense games do this
01:27 Wuzzy        diamond axe is WORSE than mese axe, making it a waste of diamonds mostly
01:27 est31        so, then experienced players dont craft it
01:27 est31        only noobs do
01:27 est31        diamond axe mines faster tough, right?
01:28 Wuzzy        i hope so
01:28 Wuzzy        if not i gonna explode
01:28 est31        well, I have no authority on mtgame issues, I'm only an engine dev
01:28 Wuzzy        aha
01:28 est31        so my opinion is only a comment
01:28 Wuzzy        btw i do not see any weblate update ...
01:29 Wuzzy        afaik the tool quality in Minetest Game was wood>stone>steel>broze>mese>diamond
01:30 Wuzzy        est31: so what happened to the translations?
01:30 est31        Wuzzy: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commits/master
01:30 Wuzzy        ummmmm
01:31 Wuzzy        i actually meant weblate
01:31 Wuzzy        the strings ON weblate.
01:31 Wuzzy        or are they already up-to-date?
01:31 Wuzzy        if not you probably just pulled tons of outdated strings :)
01:32 est31        Wuzzy: weblate should be updated as well
01:32 Wuzzy        ah. cool
01:32 Wuzzy        argh fuck
01:32 Wuzzy        this means german translation is still not at 100%
01:33 Wuzzy        cuz i thought you would update weblate strings, not pulling everything in
01:33 Wuzzy        anyway
01:33 Wuzzy        do you know what "to instrument" or "instrumentation" means? these words are used in the advanced settings for the profiler
01:34 Wuzzy        example string excerpt: “Have the profiler instrument itself:”
01:34 est31        dont know a german word for it
01:34 Wuzzy        i did not ask for a translation
01:35 Wuzzy        just explain me what it means
01:35 est31        instrumentation is a method where you change the program so that it can be analyzed by the profiler
01:36 Wuzzy        and when I "instrument" something, does this mean I ... well. .. overwrite code?
01:37 Wuzzy        i have the feeling tht "instrumentation" is Minetest slang here and not the "normal" english meaning
01:37 Wuzzy        and minetest slang is always hard to translate :(
01:38 Wuzzy        oh
01:38 Wuzzy        it seems i've just found a proper translation! yay
01:41 garywhite    wood axe gave me 31 tree
01:48 garywhite    Does anyone know if it would be possible to remove someone's ability to have creative on a creative server?
01:49 Wuzzy        no
01:49 Wuzzy        this is off topic
01:49 garywhite    didn't know if it may relate to core
01:51 garywhite    sorry
01:52 Wuzzy        ok what is “frustum”? example: “Joystick frustum sensitivity”
01:53 Wuzzy        or “The sensitivity of the joystick axes for moving the ingame view frustum around.”
02:05 paramat      the view frustrum is the pyramid-shaped volume of space that is seen by a player
02:05 garywhite    diamond shovel = 820 dirt
02:05 garywhite    testing mese shovel now
02:05 Wuzzy        garywhite: o_O
02:05 Wuzzy        i expected 821 dirt cuz of bug
02:06 Wuzzy        are you seriously counting? loool
02:06 Wuzzy        oh its pyramid shaped. good to know
02:06 garywhite    I have it in survival, & just dug away. Then calculator to use 8 stacks + 28 extra
02:07 Wuzzy        weird
02:08 Wuzzy        est31: mt fails to build lol. msgfmt stops at locale "sw"
02:09 * est31      looks
02:09 paramat      well, rectangular pyramid
02:09 paramat      'view direction' is probably a fine alternative
02:10 Wuzzy        I think the string “Joystick frustum sensitivity” is pretty confusing then
02:10 garywhite    & 542 with mese
02:10 Wuzzy        542?????
02:10 Wuzzy        wow
02:10 Wuzzy        now things are getting weird
02:10 garywhite    Yup, is that another bug?
02:10 Wuzzy        this is 2 more than i expected
02:11 garywhite    Can someone please verify how many it digs? I'd rather have a second opinion to confirm
02:11 octacian     The joystick controls really need to be reworked.
02:11 octacian     garywhite: what problem are you having?
02:11 Wuzzy        results so far: wood axe off by 1. mese shovel off by 2. diamond shovel OK.
02:12 garywhite    nothing octacian
02:12 Wuzzy        octacian: none, garywhite is just testing all the tools by counting how many they dig
02:12 garywhite    Wuzzy found an issue with the axes, so I tested the same shovels
02:12 octacian     ohk
02:13 est31        octacian: they need formspec support
02:13 est31        octacian: any wishes for joysticks?
02:15 Wuzzy        hmmm i think the easy fix would be to allow to move cursor around with axes or D-Pad while in formspec mode
02:15 Wuzzy        old SNES games did this trick
02:15 garywhite    I don't think a mese shovel digging 2 more than it's supposed to is something that should be put up as an issue, should it?
02:15 Wuzzy        to fake a mouse cursor
02:15 octacian     aside from needing formspec support, It's pretty messed up. Moving is all normal, but looking from side-to-side should be done by rotating the stick itself, as with most flight simulators. Using the throttle for looking around, is just weird. I think it should instead control speed, full = sprint, mid = normal, and nothing = sneak. Just some basic opinions.
02:15 Wuzzy        garywhite: it is an issue because it violates the formula in lua_api.txt
02:16 Wuzzy        but it is an engine issue which I already posteed today
02:16 Wuzzy        for minetest game it is not an issue cuz the difference does ofc not matter
02:16 octacian     I think that the mouse cursor should be controlled by the main stick, as with moving. The trigger would be a left-click, while the larger button on the top of the stick should be right click.
02:17 Wuzzy        octacian: agreed
02:17 garywhite    Wuzzy: Should I add onto #4900?
02:17 ShadowBot    https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4900 -- Number of tool uses is off by 1
02:17 Wuzzy        garywhite: YES
02:17 Wuzzy        please
02:17 garywhite    ok
02:17 Wuzzy        the more data, the better
02:18 Wuzzy        especially the off-by-2 thing is interesting
02:18 Wuzzy        and the fact that the diamond shovel is NOT off
02:18 octacian     ..and the mini "joystick" at the top, would control the selected item. Up/down would open/close inventory. Just an idea again.
02:28 garywhite    ok, comment made to #4900
02:28 ShadowBot    https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4900 -- Number of tool uses is off by 1
02:29 est31        Wuzzy: I cant reproduce
02:29 est31        Wuzzy: builds fine for me
02:49 Wuzzy        est31: ok maybe it was just me
02:49 est31        can you try again?
02:49 Wuzzy        est31: sorry, it seems weblate strings *are* outdated
02:49 est31        and which part fails, make or cmake
02:49 est31        plus, can you upload the error to a pastebin
02:49 est31        Wuzzy: proof?
02:50 Wuzzy        in the main menu some settings strings are english only with no weblate equivalent
02:50 est31        ok
02:50 Wuzzy        "Fog Start"
02:50 est31        yeah it was recently added
02:50 Wuzzy        Client → Graphics → Game → Advanced → Fog Start (lowest entry)
02:51 Wuzzy        and a couple of other settings strings
02:51 Wuzzy        i hope feature freeze == string freeze :)
02:52 Wuzzy        est31: cmake is OK, make fails
02:53 Wuzzy        est31: I get this in my console:
02:53 Wuzzy        http://lpaste.net/raw/349909
02:53 Wuzzy        mstfmt is bitching around
02:53 est31        mhhh
02:53 Wuzzy        msgfmt*
02:53 est31        that shouldnt happen indeed
02:54 Wuzzy        my gettext versoin = 0.19.8.1
02:54 Wuzzy        est31: note: i will not stick around much longer here
02:55 est31        no problem
02:55 est31        Wuzzy: you gave me enough, thanks
02:56 Wuzzy        happy bug hunting! cya
02:56 est31        cya
02:57 garywhite    cya Wuzzy
04:45 est31        https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/4904
05:03 paramat      hi hmmmm please could you have a look at milestones #4847 and #4888 ? thought you might have some useful insight
05:03 ShadowBot    https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4847 -- Fix unnecessary block loading and duplicating objects by juhdanad
05:03 ShadowBot    https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4888 -- Handle multiple deserialization of a block's entities by Rogier-5
05:06 paramat      especially 4847 as that is mapgen related
05:29 garywhite    paramat: Are you a core dev?
05:29 paramat      yeah, but only because i'm good at mapgen ;]
05:30 garywhite    ok, cause someone needs to take a look at #4900
05:30 ShadowBot    https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4900 -- Number of tool uses is off by 1
05:35 paramat      not a priority for me and not a critical bug
05:36 paramat      i'm not sure i agree with nerz adding it to milestones
05:41 paramat      in fact i'll remove it, it's not worth dev time at the moment
05:41 paramat      uses being very slightly approximate is minor
05:48 paramat      the 0.4.16 milestone seems useless too
05:53 garywhite    What about no milestone and a minor classification (That way it isn't listed as a pressing issue, but that way it's still on the development radar for whenever someone wants to try to fix it
05:55 paramat      'bug' label does that
05:56 paramat      #4682 is possibly worth considering
05:56 ShadowBot    https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4682 -- Fix water flooding onto lava by juhdanad
05:57 paramat      but then, it's big changes to lighting, potentially dangerous
05:57 garywhite    It would need extensive testing
06:06 paramat      est31 can #4872 be merged now?
06:06 ShadowBot    https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4872 -- Update Android build tools to latest version by rubenwardy
06:23 paramat      will merge #4899 in a moment
06:23 ShadowBot    https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4899 -- Cavegen: Wider tunnels in mgflat, mgfractal, mgvalleys by paramat
06:25 sofar        game#1457
06:25 ShadowBot    https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1457 -- Furnace: Erase src_time if no more items left in src. by sofar
06:30 paramat      merging
06:34 paramat      merged
06:35 paramat      thanks for that
06:35 sofar        It was good to go over the code again in depth
06:45 paramat      +1
06:50 paramat      1 week to release
09:46 nrzkt        est31: travis seems to be red due to translations
09:46 nrzkt        on a non related PR: /home/travis/build/minetest/minetest/po/sw/minetest.po:295: `msgid' and `msgstr' entries do not both begin with '\n'
09:47 nrzkt        i think you should do a PR to ensure you will not break other PR for updating translations, please
12:55 Fixer        est31: had compile error probably due to this: http://pastebin.com/raw/zCKDFQvD
12:59 Fixer        oh, it is already reported, nice
17:48 est31        Fixer: can you try again?
18:05 Fixer        est31: yes
18:11 sofar        Fixer: lol, it would be nice if you could LANG=en_US.utf-8 before reporting compile errors ;)
18:12 sofar        I'm sure google translate butchers "спроба виконання рецепта для мети"
18:12 Fixer        it should be obvious to people who use make and gcc
18:12 Fixer        sofar: and it was already reported, so nevermind
18:13 sofar        well, it's a gettext/msgfmt error, so it's not even a gcc error
18:25 Fixer        est31: successfuly compiled without msgfmt errors
18:37 garywhite    idk if this is for here or for #minetest (& if this is the wrong channel, I apologize in advance) but, if MT is on Google Play, why doesn't someone post it to the Amazon Appstore? That opens up a new market for Amazon Kindle Fire devices. i.e. for me the only way to use it on my Fire HD tablet is sideload with the APK from the website
18:41 sofar        guys, is there a way to create a new world from the commandline?
18:42 sfan5        ./bin/minetest --server --worldname "new_world" might work
18:42 sofar        Thread 1 "minetest" received signal SIGFPE, Arithmetic exception.
18:42 sofar        0x000000000087e272 in PcgRandom::range (bound=0, this=0x7fffffffc290)
18:42 sofar        crud!
18:43 sfan5        oh there's an issue for that already
18:43 sofar        sfan5: no, doesn't work
18:43 sfan5        however that bug vanished on my machine
18:43 sofar        this is 0.4.14
18:43 sofar        let's try master
18:44 sofar        hmm still there
18:44 sfan5        cool
18:44 sfan5        mod security is still broken
18:44 ReadySetWait I get SIGFPE (floating point exception) when running unit tests...it happens right after the testPcgRandom test
18:45 ReadySetWait 0.4.14-dev-c67f2b2-dirty
18:46 sfan5        oh gettext is also broken ,can't rebuild
18:53 est31        Fixer:  thanks for testing!
18:54 sfan5        est31: i'll merge #4904 in 10 mins
18:54 ShadowBot    https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4904 -- Try to fix build with gettext enabled by est31
18:54 sfan5        and it also fixed the compile errors here
18:54 est31        sfan5: its fixed
18:54 est31        merged*
18:54 sfan5        wait you alre...
18:54 sfan5        oh
18:54 sfan5        *pulls again*
18:55 sfan5        also it seems that we can't leave mod security enabled at release #4909
18:55 ShadowBot    https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4909 -- Mod security: Still broken with different --world
18:55 sfan5        it is broken with many "non-standard" configuration
18:57 est31        well shrug its only about defaults
18:58 sfan5        what do you mean?
18:59 sfan5        also it's still breaking the perfectly valid use case of reading files at runtime
19:00 est31        I'm okay with both disabling it and keeping it enabled
19:05 sfan5        ah
20:01 sfan5        est31: btw pcgrandom doesn't crash here
20:01 sfan5        my cxxflags are different from the default config though ("-march=native -O3")
20:03 sfan5        oh and i use clang
20:09 sfan5        huh
20:09 sfan5        with this debug build some threading test crashes
20:27 sfan5        oh well that's caused by c++11 threads
20:41 sfan5        ugh
20:41 sfan5        hard to solve without an additional mutex
21:16 tenplus1     any forum devs in here tonight ???
21:25 celeron55    what's a forum dev?
21:25 tenplus1     someone who handled minetest forums
21:25 tenplus1     anyone with DA POWER to change it
21:29 tenplus1     we have a user on forum who simple forked a mod that was just uploaded and changed a few models without even mentioning the original author, was wondering if it was against forum rules and could be removed
21:30 Shara        It's not even really a fork. He reuploaded the whole thing on github under a different mod name.
21:30 sofar        does the mod code use the proper attribution?
21:30 sofar        is there a license violation?
21:40 tenplus1     I suppose the only violation is not stating original author in mod itself
21:40 tenplus1     but it's definitely a dick move: http://lolsnaps.com/upload_pic/d6794448-treenagers.png
21:44 tenplus1     judge for yourselves: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16040
21:47 garywhite    Yeah, this is a blatant copy of the other_worlds mod (Didn't you write that one Shara?)
21:47 Shara        garywhite, yes.
21:47 Shara        I refused his request to switch models because... quite honestly, they look like what Ten says in the thread.
21:48 Shara        Totally inappropriate.
21:48 garywhite    &  IIRC, not mentioning the original creator is a violation of the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike license. Moving conversation to #minetest to avoid any issues
21:49 Shara        Well, I have nothing further to say on it really. If this is what I get for posting mods in the forums for people, it doesn't really inspire me to post more.
21:50 garywhite    That's just a guy that won't read the license for a mod before making changes
21:50 Shara        I would like an answer to Ten's question though.
21:51 garywhite    what was his question again?
21:51 Shara        It wasn't really a question about licenses, but rather about what is considered acceptable on the MT forurms.
21:51 Shara        forums*
21:52 garywhite    paramat is a forum moderator, I'll shoot it his way when he comes on later
21:53 sofar        the forum rules for WIP mods are fairly relaxed
21:53 sofar        the mods take action against license violations
21:53 sofar        but not against dick moves
21:54 garywhite    I'll read through the CC-BY-SA license and the repository, but not mentioning the creator, I believe is a violation of the license. Shara what is your mod's license?
21:55 sofar        he's not required to post attribution in the forum
21:55 Shara        I have asked for it to be moved out of WIP mods
21:55 sofar        he's not misrepresenting the authorship either, as far as I can see
21:56 sofar        sorry, it's a dick move but I don't see him fail to attribute in the source code, or misrepresent the origin, or violate licenses.
21:57 Shara        I feel I should in the absolute least be mentioned by name in the post.
21:57 sofar        "This is a fork of other_worlds." quote (with link)
21:57 Shara        paramat and tenplus1 are mentioned by name (using words I wrote myself, as though he is the one speaking them)
21:58 Shara        I'm not mentioned, even though it's my mod.
21:58 garywhite    Read license.txt on the repository
21:58 sfan5        i don't see a problem anywhere
21:59 Shara        I don't think he changed it, other than to kick out Electra's work.
21:59 sofar        I see no license violation. Your name is listed and attributed properly too, Shara
21:59 sofar        (as an aside, this is exactly why I forbid forks in /minetest-mods/)
22:01 Shara        I haven't disputed whether there's a license issue, just to be clear.
22:02 sfan5        well where's the problem then?
22:02 Shara        It is, as sofar has concluded, a dick move. I guess I am just surprised the forum allows another person's words to be used like that, as though they were his own.
22:03 garywhite    What she's saying is someone plagarized her post
22:03 sofar        afaik forum posts are public domain
22:04 sofar        I certainly would frown at anyone calling plagiarism over a forum post, sorry
22:04 Shara        garywhite, even I wouldn't really agree with you there.
22:04 sfan5        ....but where is the problem?
22:04 garywhite    ok, sorry. I may have misread the issue
22:05 * garywhite  disappears quietly
22:05 Shara        sfan5: It's a dick move, end of. Ten wanted to query  whether it was all within the rules, and left before getting an answer, so I asked for the answer.
22:06 sofar        I'm perfectly ok with you replying back on the forum and calling him out on it, btw
22:06 Shara        I did
22:06 sofar        I know
22:06 sfan5        did he edit his post in the meantime?
22:06 sofar        not that I can see
22:06 Shara        yes he did
22:07 sofar        ah
22:07 Shara        He's removed the text cerditing Ten and paramat
22:07 sfan5        he's not required to keep that
22:07 sofar        if only I was a forum mod
22:07 sfan5        and in the case of forking a mod copying description or something from another post seems legitimate to me
22:07 garywhite    You're not sofar, but paramat is ik
22:08 garywhite    oh wait...nvm
22:08 sofar        I've offered to help out, but the existing admins apparently don't hear my requests
22:08 Shara        Well, it looks like there is nothing to be done within the rules anyway.
22:08 Shara        sfan5: I am actually glad he removed the text.
22:08 sfan5        what would you want a forum mod to do anyway?
22:09 Fixer        added new bug for carts people: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1458
22:09 rom1504      he would mod
22:09 sfan5        rom1504: thank you for your worthwhile contribution to this discussion
22:09 sofar        sfan5: look at the history of the post
22:10 sofar        :)
22:10 Shara        sfan5: sorry, but this feels a bit beside the point. All I did was request an answer to Ten's query.
22:10 sfan5        Shara: well the answer is: it's not a rule violation
22:10 Shara        I got that already.
22:10 Shara        I haven't asked for anything to be done
22:10 sfan5        sofar: there's no history for posts
22:11 sfan5        not you but other people seem to expect something to be done
22:12 Shara        I know where I stand, and that's all I need. Sure, I think pithy should not have posted, but I don't expect action outside the scope of the rules.
22:15 rom1504      sfan5: :D
22:32 Fixer        sofar: i rereported bugs properly and now we have two reports, one has fix, another needs fix
22:41 Fixer        new bug report for extracooking bug: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1459
22:50 sofar        Fixer: tyty :)
23:20 sofar        Fixer: alright, try game#1457 now
23:20 ShadowBot    https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1457 -- Furnace: Erase src_time if no more items left in src. by sofar
23:21 Fixer        ok
23:27 Fixer        sofar: damn, long cook bug is more complex
23:27 Fixer        sofar: it is fixed when sand cooking is done and you approach it -> furnace shutdowns
23:27 Fixer        buuut
23:27 Fixer        here is bad part
23:28 sofar        lol
23:28 Fixer        sofar: there were 2-3 cacti remaining so I've put 30 sand in it and fly away - wait few minutes - come back, still cooks the sand... BUT, now this bug again, it still overcooks loots of sand :(
23:29 sofar        I'm starting to regret this code
23:29 Fixer        hah
23:31 Fixer        sofar: wait
23:32 Fixer        sofar: i will recheck cook time once more
23:33 Fixer        rechecking
23:34 Fixer        sofar: don't edit anything, i was wrong, just need to recheck once more
23:34 Fixer        sofar: your fix should be good, hold on
23:36 Fixer        still suspicious, checking :(
23:37 sofar        I appreciate your thoroughness
23:37 sofar        but I'm not liking the code as is anyway :(
23:38 Fixer        sofar: It is overcooking :(
23:39 sofar        meh
23:39 sofar        I feel like reverting the whole damn patch
23:42 Fixer        sofar: i've measured, normally 1 cactus cooks about 5 sand, but here 1 afked away for 1minute and flame from last cactus smelted much more than 10-20, after end of this long cook next cook time was proper
23:43 Fixer        sofar: so your patch fixed only part when it is out of sand to cook, but not if it still cooks the sand
23:43 sofar        the algorithm does something weird, which I don't lile
23:43 sofar        like*
23:43 sofar        and so it makes it hard to understand, but it also has some consequences
23:44 sofar        including, these bugs
23:46 Fixer        sofar: i will upload the gif to show you
23:46 sofar        the problem is the fuel_totaltime variable
23:50 Fixer        sofar: demo https://imgur.com/a/ZY3wM