Time  Nick       Message
16:05 paramat    nore sfan5 sofar please can anyone review/approve game#965 ? we sorted out the issues yesterday and now it's tested
16:05 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/965 -- Ability to Disable bones, drop items or keep inventory. by tenplus1
16:05 sfan5      then merge it
16:06 paramat    ok
16:08 paramat    nore sfan5 Zeno` any opinion on #4336 ? so far reviewer devs are neutral
16:08 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4336 -- Shaders: Disable by default by paramat
16:09 sfan5      haven't tested, can't comment
16:10 paramat    there are comparison screenshots and data in #4335
16:10 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4335 -- Disable shaders by default (or make tangent space to only be used when necessary)
16:17 Zeno`      I haven't tested it either :(
16:17 Zeno`      but... how do shaders make things slower?
16:18 Zeno`      merge 965
16:19 hmmmm      there's rendering code that toggles between regular vertexes and tangent vertexes if shaders are enabled
16:23 paramat    PR is temporary, eventually of course we need to only enable tangent space when actually needed (normalmpas)
16:24 hmmmm      everything is temporary until it's not
16:24 hmmmm      that's a horrible policy
16:26 paramat    well yeah, 'temporary' is redundant
16:31 hmmmm      no, 'temporary' becomes the new normal because the problem is now hidden
16:31 hmmmm      not because of any sort of redunancy
16:34 VanessaE   hmmmm: which is better though?  a temp solution that exists and at least helps, or a permanent solution that never comes to pass?
16:34 paramat    sometimes it takes time for a complex fix to be done, in the meantime if the problem is serious enough, as here, a workaround is needed
16:34 paramat    we have to make sure the proper fix is done of course
16:35 hmmmm      how are you going to guarantee that
16:35 hmmmm      what are the steps you'll take
16:38 paramat    bug people to work on it, thing is, who understands that code?
16:39 hmmmm      nobody.  you'll have to learn
16:39 hmmmm      it sucks that you have to learn new things in life but you'll live
16:40 paramat    :P
16:45 paramat    anyone know if normalmaps are the only effect requiring tangent space? personally i find bumpmapping very ugly, i would remove that and tangent space completely. however some mods and texture packs do use normalmaps
17:04 Fixer      man, minetest development is so overzealous
17:05 paramat    so the issue here is that our default is basic nodes shader only enabled, which means since tangent space was added FPS has dropped unnecessarily by 20%-50%, this is a big issue
17:13 paramat    the option will remain and players will soon find it and try it, it's just obvious we shouldn't have this bad situation set as the default
17:15 rubenwardy as requested, game#1220
17:15 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1220 -- Move books and papyrus into separate mod by rubenwardy
17:17 paramat    looking
17:45 VanessaE   paramat: tangent space was added to support parallax mapping, actually.
17:45 VanessaE   if I remember correctly.
17:46 VanessaE   normalmaps didn't need it before, still shouldn't.
17:46 VanessaE   (at least theoretically shouldn't)
17:47 VanessaE   RBA was having problems getting textures to tile correctly when parallax was enabled, in particular dirt with grass sides, the upper grass edging would echo itself to the bottom of the node at some viewing angles.
17:47 VanessaE   (and any other similar textures)
17:48 paramat    ok
17:48 VanessaE   in fact, if I remember right, THAT feature was also why using a texture atlas was forbidden, in his eye.
18:06 Fixer      i think you can simply find that pr paramat posted earlier, and check the date and reread few months of logs before that, it should have some discussion, i will look at it
18:09 Fixer      actually here http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest-dev/2016-01-02 paramat and hmmmm probably talking about this issue
18:14 nolsen     What settings should I use to optimize minetest server? It's hogging 60% of my 1GB RAM.
18:15 nolsen     Sometimes eat my singlecore.
18:16 Fixer      paramat: this one? http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest-dev/2016-02-22#i_4541319 "RealBadAngel, only bumpmapping and parallax can trigger tangent space on"
18:18 paramat    interesting
18:23 paramat    i wonder if that's actually the case though?
18:26 paramat    perhaps he meant only those effects 'use' tangent space
18:27 paramat    no description in his PR :(
18:27 paramat    https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3530#issuecomment-169119242
18:36 paramat    indeed it seems to be switched with basic shaders
18:39 paramat    https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3654/commits/b04266dfb5ef2160f72547e0418d627930c404fc#diff-c2f90db5de8c33a259c27113939c63c5R1243
18:44 Fixer      yeah, i guess so
18:44 paramat    ugh, no descriptions in PRs, no commit messages, so messy
18:53 paramat    and that part of the PR is the one hmmmm pointed out in our previous discussion
18:54 paramat    "since tangent space is crucial for any advanced effect, removing it completely is out of discussion" i assume this was done because he had plans for using tangent space in many future effects
18:55 paramat    so left it enabled whenever basic shaders was enabled
18:56 paramat    i'll merge game#965 game#1219 later
18:56 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/965 -- Ability to Disable bones, drop items or keep inventory. by tenplus1
18:56 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1219 -- Replace deprecated get_look_yaw/set_look_yaw by SmallJoker
19:05 VanessaE   +
19:11 VanessaE   oops.