Time  Nick        Message
01:20 sofar       ugh, is there no way to intercept on_punch for an entity so I can play a death animation?
01:22 sofar       I guess I have to make it immortal and do all the damage calculations myself, then
01:30 sofar       enough procrastination, I need to write the movement code now :/
04:59 gregorycu   #4025
04:59 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4025 -- Fix for Main Menu uses a lot of CPU by gregorycu
05:00 Zeno`       people will complain that the clouds don't move as fast as the did before :D
05:01 gregorycu   I was actually more worried about the click-responsiveness
05:01 gregorycu   But even 5fps is fine
05:01 est31       what bout making cloud movement not dependent on fps?
05:01 gregorycu   It's not
05:01 gregorycu   Clouds move at the same rate regardless
05:01 gregorycu   (I think the default for the setting in question is 20fps)
05:01 Zeno`       Yes, sorry est31 (I was being facetious)
05:02 Zeno`       *shrug* looks good to me
05:02 est31       Zeno`, i didnt know it either :)
05:02 Zeno`       est31, heh
05:07 Zeno`       Physical id 0:  +68.0°C  (high = +80.0°C, crit = +100.0°C)  :/
05:08 Zeno`       85%
05:08 Zeno`       90C
05:08 Zeno`       I think I'll bbl
05:08 gregorycu   Zeno must have had the main menu open
05:09 DI3HARD139  lol
05:14 est31       an even better fix would be to make the clouds drawing use less cpu
05:14 est31       if thats possible somehow
05:16 gregorycu   That's not the issue here
05:16 gregorycu   Well
05:17 gregorycu   The reason the CPU heats up is because drawing the clouds are so trivial
05:17 gregorycu   That not a lot of time is spent with graphics related operations
05:17 gregorycu   But instead, in code that prepared the cloud for drawing
05:18 gregorycu   Maybe we can make it better, for instance, cache the results of the perlin noise stuff rather than recalculating
05:18 gregorycu   But yeah, this brings the main menu in-line with the in-game-menu, so I think at the very least, we should do this
05:19 est31       yeah +1 to the patch
05:20 gregorycu   I'm going through the issues tagged "Performance" to see if I can get rid of some easy ones
05:23 sofar       minetest.find_nodes_in_area_under_air never returns any nodes for me... weird
05:25 sofar       ahh silly me
05:30 DI3HARD139  Im surprise CPU temps are high. My CPU is usually idling at the main menu
05:31 gregorycu   If you want to reproduce the bug, set your max_fps to be very large
05:32 gregorycu   I managed to make one CPU max out
05:32 gregorycu   With the patch, minetest uses ~0% CPU in main menu for me
05:32 DI3HARD139  is around 300 good?
05:32 gregorycu   Make it 1000
05:32 DI3HARD139  thats what I currently have it set to.
05:32 DI3HARD139  ok. checking now
05:33 gregorycu   It should use 100% of one core
05:34 DI3HARD139  Only using roughly 80% atm
05:35 gregorycu   What's your FPS?
05:35 gregorycu   Surely not 1000 ?
05:35 DI3HARD139  481
05:35 gregorycu   Interesting
05:36 DI3HARD139  constant. Thats using HDX256 though
05:36 gregorycu   Ahh ok
05:36 gregorycu   Basically, the more crap your graphics card is, the more CPU it will use
05:36 gregorycu   It's strange
05:37 DI3HARD139  Thats OGL for ya.
05:37 gregorycu   Anyway, no need for massive FPS in main menu
05:37 DI3HARD139  What GPU are you using?
05:38 gregorycu   HD 5700
05:38 gregorycu   A model in that series, I can't remember which
05:38 gregorycu   The users reporting the issue were on laptops
05:39 DI3HARD139  lemme get on my laptop. It has a Quadro 1000m
05:40 gregorycu   lol, you don't have to
05:40 gregorycu   But if you want, I'm not gunna stop you
05:43 DI3HARD139  83% avg and 200fps
05:44 gregorycu   Do you have a fps_limit of 200?
05:45 DI3HARD139  nope. I dont use FPS caps. Nor Vsync
05:45 gregorycu   Cool, if you make your fps_limit 20, you'll use next to no CPU
05:45 Zeno`       20? Wouldn't that be yucky to play?
05:46 DI3HARD139  ^
05:46 gregorycu   lol
05:46 gregorycu   Not the main menu
05:46 DI3HARD139  I like to maintain 60 if possible. Or if I have no choice 30
05:46 gregorycu   In the main menu?
05:47 gregorycu   You're wanting to see the effect of decreasing the fps_max on the main menu, this is how :P
05:47 gregorycu   Or take my patch
05:47 Zeno`       oh, heh
05:47 gregorycu   I'm 99.9% certain my patch will fix the issue for the user
05:48 gregorycu   So, any investigation is for your own benefit DI3HARD139, unless you can +1 my patch that is
05:48 Zeno`       firefox is using 25% cpu!
05:48 Zeno`       sitting on the google homepage... no wonder my cpu is hotter than usual
05:49 Zeno`       Maybe I could limit its FPS somehow
05:49 hmmmm       [01:18 AM] <gregorycu> Maybe we can make it better, for instance, cache the results of the perlin noise stuff rather than recalculating
05:49 hmmmm       incredible
05:49 est31       google uses you for mining bitcoins
05:49 hmmmm       perlin noise is still a bottleneck
05:49 gregorycu   hmmmm: Well, it is for the main menu cause it represents a significant chunk of CPU processing
05:49 gregorycu   In-game, probably less of a slice
05:50 hmmmm       this is a problem on android i take it?
05:50 gregorycu   It would be. But the issue was reported on laptops.
05:50 DI3HARD139  Zeno': Have ya cleaned the heatsink out lately?
05:50 hmmmm       very interesting
05:50 DI3HARD139  and changed the thermal compound?
05:50 Zeno`       DI3HARD139, about 20 minutes ago
05:50 gregorycu   #2226
05:50 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2226 -- Minetest main menu uses a lot of CPU
05:50 hmmmm       on PCs at least, main menu takes up 1% cpu if anything at all
05:51 hmmmm       but the real question is should anybody be working on optimizing this so close to release
05:51 gregorycu   Did you check my patch? I mean, the contents?
05:51 gregorycu   We don't have to merge this now
05:52 Zeno`       I'm not sure if that really classifies as an optimisation per se, but even if it is we don't have to stop work just because a release is imminent :p
05:52 hmmmm       oh
05:52 hmmmm       that's really sweet and simple
05:52 hmmmm       sure, i approve of it
05:52 Zeno`       me too
05:52 est31       me too
05:52 Zeno`       quickest approval ever
05:53 gregorycu   \o/
05:53 hmmmm       pause_fps_max is like 15 by default right?
05:54 gregorycu    20
05:54 hmmmm       yeah ok
05:54 hmmmm       and later on we'll (i will or you if you really want to) optimize clouds
05:54 gregorycu   Sounds good to me
05:55 hmmmm       a large enough buffer could be generated once and looped around
05:55 hmmmm       nobody is going to notice
05:55 gregorycu   Something to keep in mind, if the user has fps_max set to something very high
05:55 hmmmm       like one 80x500 strip of noise
05:55 gregorycu   (And we don't take my change)
05:55 gregorycu   We'll still churn through a lot of CPU
05:55 gregorycu   Cause drawing the clouds in the GPU is trivial
05:56 VanessaE    hmmmm: weren't clouds once done exactly like that at one time?
05:56 gregorycu   But yeah, should be optimised
05:56 hmmmm       vanessae, not to my knowledge.
05:56 Zeno`       But... what about the people who like to watch the clouds for hours looking for new shapes and patterns?
05:56 hmmmm       i wonder if there's a way to loop around a scene node in irrlicht
05:56 hmmmm       or tile it
05:57 hmmmm       cloud_strip_size =
05:57 hmmmm       they can set it to a zillion if they want
05:57 Zeno`       could we just do a shader that makes nice smoke
05:57 Zeno`       I suppose people would miss the nice clouds
05:58 hmmmm       maybe we can bulk generate perlin noise and generate it as a texture
05:58 hmmmm       then use that texture as data for the shaders
05:58 Zeno`       might work
05:58 nore        anyway, even if we keep generating the clouds, but with caching, ot wouldn't be very expensive, would it?
05:59 hmmmm       i feel like this is getting way out of scope though
05:59 gregorycu   Yeah
05:59 hmmmm       it's supposed to be a quick simple optimization
05:59 gregorycu   I'm all for a complicated optimisation if profiling indicates we would get significant gain
05:59 gregorycu   Clouds are only a major problem in the main menu
06:00 gregorycu   I can take a look at clouds later to see if the actual game would benefit
06:01 Zeno`       why use perlin noise for the menu clouds at all?
06:01 hmmmm       what should be used instead..?
06:01 hmmmm       perlin noise is not a heavy operation, the cloud generator is just doing it wrong
06:01 Zeno`       they're just squares ... surely any PRNG could do the job of queuing a new cloud or two that will emerge next
06:02 hmmmm       it takes under 1 millisecond to generate 80x80 of the data
06:02 Zeno`       oh, well that's nothing
06:05 hmmmm       yeah
06:05 hmmmm       i have an idea for a good algorithm to do clouds (and more generally all kinds of smoke) with shaders
06:06 hmmmm       it's just a matter of asking, do the players want that or do they want the characteristic clouds of minetest that they're used of
06:07 est31       well in the worst case we add an option for the legacy clouds
06:07 est31       in fact we do require this as shaders are optional
06:09 hmmmm       how do video games usually implement clouds?
06:09 hmmmm       i'm wondering if using perlin to generate them is overboard
06:16 DI3HARD139  They are usually particle shaders.
06:20 Zeno`       c64, amiga etc used to use just normal random numbers (the clouds are really just an oversized starfield if you look at them in a certain way)
06:21 Zeno`       big blobs instead of points (or balls)
07:13 jin_xi      est31: so i have a bad feeling about that pathfinder PR. it got merged w/o much discussion and does a controvesial thing, and i wonder if thats gonna cause headaches for some after release
07:15 jin_xi      its pull no 2651 and the issue is 3453
07:24 nore        ~tell paramat maybe merge #3907 since freeze is today...
07:24 ShadowBot   nore: O.K.
07:25 nore        hmm, interesting, ShadowBot doesn't links PRs when you use ~tell
07:27 gregorycu   #3453
07:27 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3453 -- minetest.find_path returns extremely bloated path
07:36 Zeno`       will merge #4025 shortly (3 approvals)
07:36 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4025 -- Fix for Main Menu uses a lot of CPU by gregorycu
07:37 gregorycu   Thanks Zeno
07:37 Zeno`       np
07:41 Zeno`       done and done and done
07:42 Zeno`       and CPU is still on 27C :D
07:42 gregorycu   Hooray!
07:43 gregorycu   What happens with the bug?
07:43 Krock       roast and eat it
07:43 gregorycu   (Shouldn't github close it automatically?)
07:45 Zeno`       oh.. I'll close it
07:46 Zeno`       it probably would close it if I used github to commit (I dunno... don't trust github heh)
07:46 gregorycu   Ahh ok
07:47 gregorycu   Yeah, i didn't have
07:47 gregorycu   "Fixed #blah" in the commit message
07:47 gregorycu   Only the PR
07:47 Zeno`       Those github "merge now" buttons scare me
07:47 Zeno`       I think I used it once and it went all FUBAR
07:49 est31       they have been changed since
07:49 est31       github introduced a merge + squash feature
07:50 est31       basically the same thing we did before all the time
07:50 est31       no merge commit created
07:50 est31       and c55 has enabled the feature by default, without a way to not do it
07:51 Krock       So, updated #4016 with est31's comments
07:51 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4016 -- tile.cpp: Automatically resize overlaying texture to base dimensions by SmallJoker
07:52 Zeno`       est31, so it will work as expected now?
07:52 est31       Zeno`, yes, try it :)
07:52 * Zeno`     looks at the green button in terror
07:52 est31       :)
07:52 Zeno`       heh
07:52 est31       https://github.com/blog/2141-squash-your-commits
07:53 est31       and its no april fools joke despite the date
07:55 Zeno`       I'll try it. Although I don't mind just typing it
07:55 Zeno`       gives me a chance to test etc
07:55 Zeno`       overly paranoid perhaps, but *shrug*
07:56 Zeno`       does it let me abort if I click it just as a test?
07:56 est31       there is a second dialog before, you must do two clicks to merge a pr
07:56 Zeno`       ok, I'm willing to try it out in that case
07:56 Zeno`       next commit
07:58 Zeno`       It may have made committing nore's PR last night easier (git am didn't work)
07:58 Zeno`       I had to branch from an earlier commit, squash, rebase and apply to master... kind of annoying
07:59 Zeno`       but github was saying it would merge no problems so maybe it does fancy stuff
08:02 gregorycu   I'm looking at #3511
08:02 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3511 -- Setting an item's range high results in poor performance
08:03 est31       gregorycu, thats because we dont do real ray tracing
08:03 gregorycu   Yeah
08:03 est31       we need to do some improved version of bresenham's algorithm or something
08:03 gregorycu   We basically get every node in a octant, and then see if we collide with it
08:03 est31       yeah
08:04 est31       pretty inefficient
08:04 gregorycu   That's reasonably intensive
08:04 Zeno`       oooh, I've done lots of modified bresenham's. I even modified it to rotate and zoom pixmaps heh
08:04 gregorycu   What I suggest that, as a stop-gap measure, when the wield distance is over some threshold, like 20, we precull nodes where the angle to the node is greater than the camera angle
08:05 gregorycu   It's not perfect, but for large draw distances, it should significantly improve performance
08:05 est31       yeah
08:05 Zeno`       for large draw distances wouldn't error be more applicable anyway (so culling shouldn't make all that much negative difference)
08:06 gregorycu   I'm about to test it out
08:06 gregorycu   How I've implemented it, for nodes near the user, no culling happens, for nodes far away, culling occurs
08:07 gregorycu   And this logic only kicks in when the tool has a large wield distance
08:07 gregorycu   So yeah, as you say Zeno, shouldn't make any difference to correctness
08:09 Zeno`       seems like a valid conclusion
08:23 jin_xi      so im still trying out some stuff for particle collision overhaul: here is a greedy mesher making meshes used for collision detection. now trying to get it to make the right block at the right position.
08:23 jin_xi      http://imgur.com/ZAaYxlz
08:23 Krock       cool structure
08:29 jin_xi      so what i am wondering about is how to let particle systems keep track of map changes. just re-meshing every step is too slow
08:30 jin_xi      and for digging particles many particle systems actually use the same block, so sharing those would be nice
08:31 jin_xi      and i keep thinking that if these problems are solved this method of collision detection could be used for other stuff
08:31 jin_xi      avoiding all the issues with unfitting, non-rotating collision boxes
08:51 gregorycu   I can improve FPS from 22 to 38
08:51 gregorycu   It's still pretty shit though
08:53 jin_xi      here is another thing i wonder about: irrlicht code comments say its meshmanipulator is not intended for use inside render loops, yet minetest does exactly that
08:53 jin_xi      https://sourceforge.net/p/irrlicht/code/HEAD/tree/trunk/source/Irrlicht/CMeshManipulator.h#l17
08:56 est31       no
08:56 est31       we manipulate the meshes not inside render loops
08:56 est31       we manipulate them in a separate thread even
09:02 jin_xi      oh ok, well thats good to know
09:16 gregorycu   I was thinking about bresenham
09:17 gregorycu   But I'm not sure
09:17 gregorycu   I think the current implemention could be modified to scan an small octant, move the origin, then the next octant, move origin, next octant
09:18 gregorycu   With a little bit of overlap
09:20 gregorycu   Maybe I should attempt bresnham
09:28 Zeno`       gregorycu, on an unrelated project I profiled bresenham vs. floating point and the results were not compellingly different
09:28 gregorycu   What do you mean "floating point"
09:28 Zeno`       as long as there is an FPU (what doesn't have one these days?) then the difference is not great
09:29 Zeno`       just using floating point calculations instead of accumulating errors in integers like bresenham
09:29 gregorycu   Right
09:29 Zeno`       but, it depends of course how you optimise it...
09:29 gregorycu   bresenham isn't good enough though, at least, a simple implementation
09:29 gregorycu   It "misses" corners
09:30 Zeno`       it does?
09:30 Zeno`       mine doesn't
09:30 Zeno`       although it would (might) depend on distance
09:30 Zeno`       so you're correct
09:31 gregorycu   https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ab/Bresenham.svg/300px-Bresenham.svg.png
09:31 Zeno`       the best thing about bresenham (and it might not even be applicable here) is the reduction down to 4 octants using reflection etc
09:32 Zeno`       oh you mean that... yeah
09:33 Zeno`       I thought you were referring to something else :)
09:33 gregorycu   bresenham basically increments the smaller of the x and y component
09:33 gregorycu   Right?
09:33 Zeno`       normally
09:33 gregorycu   And increments the other by 1, or if the error has built up, 2
09:33 gregorycu   Or 0 and 1
09:33 gregorycu   Sorry
09:34 Zeno`       but if you look at optimised versions not really
09:34 Zeno`       If I was in Windows I'd email you the papers I have
09:34 Zeno`       but you'll find them
09:34 Zeno`       unless you'd like me to reboot?
09:34 gregorycu   We don't have to be superfast here
09:34 gregorycu   Nah
09:34 Zeno`       I'll email them to you later in any case (unless you mind)
09:35 Zeno`       they're a good read
09:35 gregorycu   We are currently looking at 1million nodes for a tool with range of 100
09:35 gregorycu   Looking at a node requires a lookup in a std::map
09:35 Zeno`       *nod*
09:35 gregorycu   So yeah, we don't need a superfast algo to improve that
09:35 gregorycu   Also have to be careful not to slow down tool range < 10
09:37 gregorycu   I think I have an algo to try
09:38 Zeno`       The gregorycu super-algo!
09:38 Zeno`       (TM)(C)(R)
09:38 Zeno`       Google Cardboard support...
09:39 Zeno`       anyone feel like doing that? :)
09:40 Zeno`       ugh I jumped out of my tank and it destroyed my solar farm
09:40 Zeno`       err... sorry... meant to pm
09:41 neoascetic  Does feature freeze mean there will be new release soon?
09:42 Zeno`       neoascetic, yes
09:42 neoascetic  Great! Tried v7 just now and it looks absolutely awesome
09:43 Zeno`       I think paramat is aiming for 1-2 weeks of feature freeze (but don't quote me on that)
09:47 neoascetic  Meanwhile, I've put addition $10 on #3440
09:47 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3440 -- Client side Lua scripting
09:47 neoascetic  I know this is pretty small but anyway...
09:50 gregorycu   $10 how?
09:51 gregorycu   Ahh bounty
09:51 gregorycu   Nice
09:57 gregorycu   I've added $15
09:59 neoascetic  awesome
10:00 neoascetic  I think this feature will be a huge improvement
10:01 neoascetic  AFAIK the only person who claim bounty from bountysource is me. My own bounties. Lol
10:01 gregorycu   And now mine, apparently
10:08 Calinou     >implying bounties are ever used
10:10 gregorycu   I don't think that was the implication
10:10 gregorycu   Hopefully people can back a few things
10:11 gregorycu   After we somehow give project admins access to the bounty claiming
10:12 lisac       nore: Are you there?
10:18 Zeno`       must have been nore's secret admirer
11:43 gregorycu   hmm... I think I've done it
11:44 gregorycu   A 3d Bresenham thing
11:45 gregorycu   More like some sort of interpolation  machine
12:40 gregorycu   Fixer: Hello
13:32 Fixer       gregorycu, ohi
13:32 Fixer       gregorycu, something interesting for me? %)
13:33 Fixer       gregorycu, jitter? 3770?
13:33 gregorycu   #3770
13:33 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3770 -- Fix superflous shader setting updates by ShadowNinja
13:34 gregorycu   Ahh, that thing
13:34 gregorycu   #3511
13:34 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3511 -- Setting an item's range high results in poor performance
13:34 gregorycu   That's what I'm looking at at the moment
13:36 gregorycu   Yeah, you can make code much faster by not doing calculations it seems
13:36 Zeno`       amazing :)
13:44 Krock       Rebased #3267
13:44 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3267 -- Standardize the menu button order and sizes by SmallJoker
13:51 gregorycu   This code is blisteringly fast
13:51 gregorycu   But buggy
13:51 gregorycu   And a real PITA to debug
13:56 Zeno`       sounds perfect!
13:56 gregorycu   Like 5 fps to 140
14:00 Zeno`       really?
14:01 gregorycu   I think that was debug, so it doesn't really count
14:01 gregorycu   But yeah
14:05 gregorycu   Examining 1M nodes is indeed slower than examaning 400
14:31 gregorycu   *sigh* Everything was going so well, until it crashed
15:06 * gregorycu is a happy chappy now
15:08 gregorycu   In release build, 250 fps, instead of 30
15:12 PilzAdam    gregorycu, when using a tool with a high range?
15:12 gregorycu   Yeah
15:12 gregorycu   With a range of 100
15:13 gregorycu   Range of 200 should be only 2 times slower than 100
15:13 PilzAdam    what is the performance difference with a range 4 tool compared to a range 100 tool with your new code?
15:13 gregorycu   In terms of FPS?
15:14 PilzAdam    yep
15:14 gregorycu   Hard to tell... I'll try to figure out
15:16 gregorycu   lol
15:16 gregorycu   Give me a sec, for some reason holding a screwdriver results in better FPS than sand
15:20 gregorycu   Ok, so stone pick (range of 3)  vs steel pick (range of 150)
15:20 gregorycu   Same FPS
15:20 gregorycu   ~240 for me
15:21 PilzAdam    thats great
15:21 gregorycu   It goes from 220 - 240 no matter which tool
15:21 PilzAdam    we could give the creative hand in mt_game a larger range now
15:22 gregorycu   Well, I have to create a PR first
15:23 gregorycu   lol @ destroying things far in the distance
15:23 gregorycu   I can only tell cause the selection box is changing, it's so far away
15:25 gregorycu   I've very happy with this, and it only took me 8 hours
15:25 gregorycu   Time for a hot drink, bb in 10 min
15:46 Zeno`       a nice warm irish cream
15:47 gregorycu   I see what you did there
16:04 gregorycu   #4027
16:04 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4027 -- Make getPointedThing faster by gregorycu
16:05 gregorycu   PilzAdam: You can have a play with that PR if you want to test your creative hand
16:17 Krock       gregorycu, so how much better is this change than before?
16:18 gregorycu   With the old code, and a tool with wield range of 100, the FPS for me was 30
16:18 gregorycu   Now it's 240
16:19 Krock       looks a bit too complex for me :<
16:20 gregorycu   It's a little math heavy
16:20 gregorycu   Oops, I meant to rename a variable before commiting
16:21 gregorycu   Zeno`: Did you want me to fix up aabb3f box = *i; while I'm at it?
16:23 gregorycu   Krock: The old code used to check an octant (which is like a quadrant but in 3d). It would try and intersect  distance ^ 3 nodes
16:24 gregorycu   My code starts near the camera and moves away, selecting nodes likely to intersect
16:24 Zeno`       gregorycu, I just wondered why you were making copies of objects when copies are not needed
16:25 gregorycu   yeah, the old code did it
16:25 Zeno`       silly old code :(
16:25 gregorycu   I was trying to not change that code so the diff would line up, but it's fucked anyway
16:25 gregorycu   I'll amend it
16:25 Zeno`       lol, cool :)
16:30 Zeno`       gregorycu, I haven't tested but it looks great
16:31 Zeno`       very neat solution
16:32 gregorycu   Thank you
17:03 nore        gregorycu: did you test with doors though?
17:03 gregorycu   lol doors?
17:03 nore        Their selection box is bigger than the node
17:04 nore        two nodes, to be more precise
17:04 gregorycu   What's the item name?
17:04 Zeno`       yeah, they sang great songs like "Touch Me" and "Gloria"
17:05 nore        doors:door_wood iirc
17:06 gregorycu   No problem with doors it seems
17:06 Zeno`       Well, except that Jim Morrison died
17:07 gregorycu   Are doors nodes or entities?
17:07 nore        gregorycu: oh, interesting but surprising
17:07 gregorycu   Yeah, it selects the door, doesn't select things behind the door
17:07 Zeno`       nore, I thought you were going away for a week
17:08 nore        they are nodes, but how recent if your minetest_game?
17:08 gregorycu   A door is apparently two things
17:08 gregorycu   door_wood_t and door_wood_b
17:08 nore        Zeno`: I am, I am using my phone ;)
17:08 Zeno`       haha, addicted :)
17:08 gregorycu   Probably not that receint
17:08 nore        gregorycu: then this is an old mtg
17:09 nore        Zeno`: maybe :D
17:10 nore        (well, I am visiting Sweden right now, but since I have nothing to do on the evening :))
17:10 gregorycu   I'll get latest minetest_game
17:14 gregorycu   Yeah
17:14 gregorycu   I broke doors
17:14 gregorycu   FML
17:14 gregorycu   Well, how large can a selection box be?
17:16 gregorycu   Who needs door anyway, amirite?
17:17 nore        I don't know, they could be quite big
17:18 nore        but I think it is reasonable to disallow selection boxes to get more than one node away
17:18 gregorycu   1 is just some value of n
17:19 gregorycu   I think this is already broken, but less obviously so
17:19 nore        or even to disallow them to be bigger than the node, with some kind of way to make them bigger (with a ghost node of something like that)
17:19 nore        something like, a ghost node saying "look at that node instead of me"
17:20 gregorycu   Or I can just special case for doors, and have it always check one node below
17:20 nore        sofar: your opinions on that? (since it was you who rewrote doors...)
17:21 nore        hmm, then maybe a callback to say to the engine that it should check in some direction too
17:22 nore        and add that to the doors code
17:22 nore        (new clients wouldn't be compatible with old servers though)
17:24 gregorycu   Well, my special casing works
17:24 nore        did you try beds too?
17:25 gregorycu   Of course not, I'm not a good developer
17:25 gregorycu   I'll check out beds
17:25 nore        (more special cases I guess)
17:25 nore        so, I think just one node away is reasonable
17:26 nore        with documentation to go with it
17:28 gregorycu   Yeah, beds are also broken
17:28 gregorycu   What prevents me from building over the top of a bed?
17:28 gregorycu   I mean, the part that isn't the node
17:29 nore        So, do you think one node in each direction is a good compromise? What does it give on performance?
17:29 nore        gregorycu: there is another, not pointable but not buildable_to node
17:30 gregorycu   Maybe these things should be entities instead
17:31 gregorycu   I can do 1 in every direction, the perf hit won't be too bad
17:31 nore        no, entities are not a good idea for static things
17:32 nore        There are a lot of problems with entities
17:32 sofar       ideas? he broke it! ;)
17:33 nore        Including /clearobjects, the maximum number of static entities per block, and a lot of other things
17:34 nore        sofar: well, what do you think is better: keep his PR and fix doors and beds, or add the one-node-away check? ;)
17:34 nore        (Which would cost some performance though, even if I think it wouldn't  be that much)
17:35 gregorycu   Ok, the one node thing works
17:35 gregorycu   If that's the rule
17:35 nore        I think the one-node-rule wouldn't break any mods
17:35 gregorycu   hmm...
17:35 nore        And it wouldn't cost too much (just a factor 7)
17:35 gregorycu   This must be broken already
17:36 nore        Why do you say that?
17:37 gregorycu   Cause I know how the old logic used to work
17:39 nore        Ah, and what was the problem?
17:40 gregorycu   The old code used to do the +1 trick
17:41 gregorycu   The problem with the old code
17:41 gregorycu   Well
17:41 sofar       how would we fix doors and beds? sorry, I missed the proposed change
17:41 gregorycu   Don't worry about doors and beds, the amendment will work
17:41 * sofar     still confused, has espresso
17:42 gregorycu   nore: Do you know what a quadrant is?
17:42 sofar       gregorycu: you could even optimize it
17:42 sofar       gregorycu: 1 node up is logical
17:42 nore        gregorycu: yes
17:42 sofar       due to "visual_size"
17:42 gregorycu   sofar: beds are one node across
17:42 sofar       hmm, yes
17:42 sofar       but never down
17:43 gregorycu   sofar: That means I can optimise away 1 of 8
17:43 gregorycu   nore: Do you know what an octant is?
17:43 nore        gregorycu: yes too
17:44 nore        sofar: the proposed change is to allow nodes to have a selection box extending up to one node away
17:44 gregorycu   nore: Awesome. The old code would test an entire octant for things the player may be pointing at
17:44 sofar       that's fine
17:44 sofar       selection boxes are client-side things
17:44 nore        Yeah, that was what I thought
17:44 gregorycu   nore: So, if the tool had a range of 100, it would search 100 * 100 * 100 nodes
17:45 nore        But, I was unable to make that break doors (although I tried hard, because I thought it would)
17:45 nore        gregorycu: bad for performance, indeed
17:45 gregorycu   Looking at the code, it ensures that the octant also includes slightly more than 1/8th
17:45 gregorycu   More like 101 * 101 * 101
17:46 nore        Oh, that's why it worked
17:46 gregorycu   Yeah
17:46 gregorycu   So yeah, 1 million nodes are checked
17:46 nore        And that means that selection boxes extending further that one node were also broken
17:46 gregorycu   Yes
17:46 nore        So we're not breaking anything :)
17:47 gregorycu   Correct
17:47 * nore      likes it
17:47 gregorycu   The other thing we could do is store a list of nodes with large selection boxes
17:47 gregorycu   Or whatever, some structure
17:47 gregorycu   And explicitly test them
17:48 nore        hm, I don't know what the best would be
17:48 gregorycu   Probably slower than just increasing the scope of checking
17:48 nore        I think so too
17:48 nore        Increasing the scope looks like a good idea to me
17:49 nore        Best way would also probably be to first check the intersection on the main line
17:49 nore        And then, check the oversized selection boxes that are a bit away
17:50 nore        Using the node that was first found to reduce the number of checked nodes
17:50 gregorycu   Checking a node isn't too slow
17:50 gregorycu   Just when there are a million of them...
17:52 nore        :D
17:52 gregorycu   Bed time for me
17:52 hmmmm       I'm confused
17:52 hmmmm       isn't this hit detection for particles?
17:53 hmmmm       particles are usually very small and unlikely to hit more than one node at a time
17:53 nore        hmmmm: no, it is getPointedThing
17:53 hmmmm       instead of an intersection of several polygons, can't it be a line instead?
17:54 hmmmm       that's the smae thing
17:54 hmmmm       they're both casting rays
17:54 hmmmm       how is this slow?
17:58 nore        hmmmm: what happens is that the current code checks the whole octant
17:58 nore        Instead of just checking the casted ray
17:59 nore        Gtg, bbl
17:59 hmmmm       by octant you mean 2x2x2 cluster of nodes?
18:01 jin_xi      moar like distance^3
18:01 hmmmm       doesn't make sense to me, i should probably look at what the code is actually doing..
18:15 kaadmy      long range tools? :]
18:16 Krock       Wuzzy (IIRC) wrote a teleproter stick with a huge range of pointing a node
18:16 Krock       as destination location
18:52 * sofar     scratches head and wonders how to get a handle on INodeDefManager inside pathfinder.cpp
18:52 sofar       see https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1701#issuecomment-214022155
18:56 sofar       anyone know?
18:58 jin_xi      env->gamedef->nodemanager?
19:02 sofar       INodeDefManager *ndef = m_env->getGameDef()->ndef();
19:02 sofar       that did something...
19:24 hmmmm       guys is it okay if i rant a little bit in this channel
19:24 hmmmm       need to dump my ideas about biomemanager architecture that i came up with while taking a shit
19:25 hmmmm       ----------------- so we have a couple of requirements that are unfulfilled by the current implementation of BiomeManager
19:25 VanessaE    hmmmm: well you're off by about 12 hours but go aheaed :)
19:25 hmmmm       it's monolithic, and does not handle separation of concerns well
19:25 hmmmm       - i want to be able to specify unique biome parameters for each mapgen
19:26 hmmmm       - i want the biomemanager to handle all biome related computation - the mapgen should be able to give it parameters x y z and get a result
19:26 hmmmm       so right now there is only one biomemanager shared across all mapgens
19:27 hmmmm       and this is okay to do without synchronization because we made the contract that the biome list becomes read-only after the mod initialization phase
19:28 hmmmm       but each mapgen needs its own set of noise values at any given time, so the workaround is that the mapgens provide the noise objects to the biome calc functions
19:28 hmmmm       this is fine but it disrupts separation of concerns
19:28 hmmmm       because now the mapgen is responsible for knowing what types of noises are needed for biome calculation
19:29 hmmmm       the solution here would be to have a single BiomeManager per thread, clearly, but we don't want to deal with keeping the biome lists across all instances of BiomeManager synchronized
19:30 hmmmm       so we'll retain the single BiomeManager as an element of the EmergeManager and we more clearly define BiomeManager's role as maintaining the biome list and handling the lookups
19:31 hmmmm       we delegate biome *computation* to a new, separate class that each mapgen creates that exists on a per-thread basis
19:31 hmmmm       what its name should be is not known at this point because i'm not 100% sure about what the responsibilities of this class is going to be yet
19:32 hmmmm       but at the very least, it's going to be initialized with some of the same parameters for the mapgen
19:32 hmmmm       but it's not going to be tied *to* the mapgen as the dungeongen is for example
19:33 hmmmm       organizationally speaking, DungeonGen is a complete fuckup
19:33 hmmmm       we do not want to repeat this again
19:35 hmmmm       BiomeCalculator biomecalc(biomemgr, chunksize);   ... biomecalc.generateAndCacheBiomes(node_min); .... Biome *b = biomecalc.getBiomeAtPoint(p);    I guess?  pretty straightforward
19:36 hmmmm       so we're going to have one kind of list of biomes, that is the BiomeManager
19:36 hmmmm       but we're going to have many different ways to compute which of these biomes is chosen
19:37 hmmmm       BiomeCalculator is going to be an interface, and the current approach to calculation (intersection of temperature and humidity) is going to just be one implementation
19:38 hmmmm       which approach to calculation will be used is going to be handled the same way the rest of the biome configuration will be
19:38 hmmmm       per mapgen
19:38 hmmmm       this is going to be generalized in the same way mapgen configuration will be
19:39 hmmmm       there'll exist a mapgen configuration script (so e.g. mapgen_v7.lua, mapgen_singlenode.lua) for each builtin mapgen that's executed upon final determination of the mapgen type
19:39 hmmmm       here, this is where mapgen noise parameters will be set, and biome parameters chosen as well
19:40 hmmmm       while i'm doing this i'd like to remove the mapgen params from the config files once and for all - that was a bad idea due to the sheer amount of configuration bloat but i didn't see it at the time
19:40 hmmmm       of course this will break reverse compatibility
19:40 hmmmm       i'm going to go off on a limb and say fuck reverse compatibility this time
19:41 hmmmm       people will just need to understand that they need to create a mod for their custom mapgen parameters if they want to make a *new* world with custom params
19:41 hmmmm       of course this won't break previously existing worlds because the parameters have been copied to map_meta.txt
19:41 hmmmm       </rant>
19:42 hmmmm       putting thoughts into words really helps me organize it all
19:42 hmmmm       now i'm going to do it
21:28 jhcole      for any minetest-mods dev, issue tracking is disabled for the castle mod; is that on purpose?
21:30 VanessaE    sofar: ^^^
21:52 sofar       jhcole: no, just means it wasn't enabled originally
21:53 sofar       issues now enabled
21:53 jhcole      sofar: thanks, i'll be making use of it soon :)
22:48 sofar       woot, I got my sheep to jump