| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:54 |
est31 |
hmmmm, any other problems with the changes? |
| 00:55 |
hmmmm |
nothing major, just extremely out of conformance with minetest code style and conventions |
| 00:55 |
hmmmm |
but i guess that doesn't really matter for srp |
| 00:55 |
est31 |
otherwise I'll merge an even newer version, that uses clang-format |
| 00:55 |
est31 |
its closer to minetest code style than before |
| 00:56 |
est31 |
e.g. it enforces no space after ( and before ) |
| 00:56 |
est31 |
and space before * |
| 00:56 |
hmmmm |
what is your own personal preference? j/w |
| 00:56 |
est31 |
I've made the guidelines after my personal preference |
| 00:56 |
est31 |
https://github.com/est31/csrp-gmp/blob/master/.clang-format |
| 00:57 |
est31 |
so my preferences are aligned by minetest style guides i admit |
| 00:57 |
est31 |
note that the last two commits are WIP |
| 00:58 |
hmmmm |
is there a "preset" for Linux style? |
| 00:58 |
est31 |
usually I dont do push -f, especially for old changes (> 1 day) |
| 00:58 |
est31 |
yes |
| 00:58 |
hmmmm |
sorta wonder what that does |
| 00:59 |
est31 |
http://clang.llvm.org/docs/ClangFormatStyleOptions.html |
| 00:59 |
est31 |
copies linux style guide |
| 00:59 |
hmmmm |
i mean for CPP |
| 00:59 |
est31 |
esp. http://clang.llvm.org/docs/ClangFormatStyleOptions.html#examples |
| 00:59 |
hmmmm |
the minetest code style tries to be linux mostly except expands on c++ specific items |
| 01:00 |
hmmmm |
i'm kind of interested in this because it could be integrated with the unit tests and give a warning on miscompliance or something |
| 01:00 |
hmmmm |
better to have a robot do dumb things like style checking |
| 01:00 |
hmmmm |
so nobody has to say, "oh you missed a space" |
| 01:01 |
est31 |
yeah |
| 01:01 |
hmmmm |
so what was up with that fit you had a couple days ago |
| 01:01 |
est31 |
fit? |
| 01:01 |
hmmmm |
from what i was reading in the logs and on various github comments you seemed very angry |
| 01:02 |
est31 |
well idk, you turn up, thats cool, then you speak with a contributor about their pr, then you merge it without asking anybody else |
| 01:02 |
est31 |
usually you just added a :+1: |
| 01:03 |
hmmmm |
because it was small enough to only need 1 approval i thought |
| 01:03 |
hmmmm |
certainly wasn't a medium sized PR |
| 01:04 |
est31 |
well it had a pretty involved API change in it |
| 01:04 |
hmmmm |
when i *just* add a :+1: that usually means i'm lazy and don't feel like going through all the process of downloading the patch and cherry picking it and so on |
| 01:04 |
hmmmm |
involved as in, confusing? sure i'll agree it's confusing |
| 01:04 |
est31 |
yes |
| 01:05 |
hmmmm |
but paramat has done worse and i was the only one to code review it |
| 01:05 |
hmmmm |
nobody seems to have a problem there |
| 01:05 |
est31 |
yeah i understand that you then are eager to merge, i have this sometimes too |
| 01:05 |
hmmmm |
and it certainly didn't break any reverse compatibility |
| 01:06 |
est31 |
usually paramat waits though before its clear that nobody reviews his code |
| 01:06 |
est31 |
e.g. mapgen change |
| 01:07 |
hmmmm |
no, I'm saying he's modified the API, I'm the only one who reviews it, and there's nobody being upset there |
| 01:07 |
hmmmm |
with that situation |
| 01:07 |
hmmmm |
i'm sorry it's just that i had no idea that an api change automatically makes it a larger change that requires more reviewers |
| 01:07 |
hmmmm |
not quite a change as much as an addition |
| 01:08 |
hmmmm |
the word 'change' implies that it would disrupt others from doing their modding |
| 01:09 |
est31 |
the main thing that i didnt like was that you didnt respond to my repeated questions |
| 01:09 |
hmmmm |
you didn't ask me any questions before i merged it |
| 01:09 |
est31 |
completely acted as if i wasnt there |
| 01:09 |
est31 |
no no after you merged it |
| 01:10 |
hmmmm |
you never asked me anything directly |
| 01:10 |
hmmmm |
this is the first time in over 4 days i've been on IRC at the same time you are |
| 01:10 |
est31 |
true |
| 01:10 |
hmmmm |
soo... |
| 01:10 |
est31 |
still I've tried to reach you over various channels |
| 01:10 |
hmmmm |
i did act like you weren't there because you weren't there |
| 01:10 |
est31 |
either way, I'm okay now with keeping the change in |
| 01:11 |
hmmmm |
'various channels' |
| 01:11 |
est31 |
the main critic point I had (bad docs) was fixed |
| 01:11 |
hmmmm |
I caught on to what was happening when I reviewed the logs for a completely different reason |
| 01:12 |
est31 |
I also asked on github, although I could have remembered that you dont read github notifications |
| 01:12 |
hmmmm |
... no i do not |
| 01:12 |
hmmmm |
github notifications are dumb |
| 01:12 |
hmmmm |
they alert on literally every single thing anybody does |
| 01:16 |
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| 01:16 |
est31 |
we need a policy for how to deal with conflicts like these: where one dev merged a change and some other thinks it needs more approval |
| 01:16 |
hmmmm |
celeron would probably think it's a 'waste of time' |
| 01:16 |
hmmmm |
;; |
| 01:17 |
paramat |
anyone agree this can be closed? #2747 |
| 01:17 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2747 -- Random rotation of textures |
| 01:17 |
est31 |
I'm only wondering about the disagreement case, not for how to interpret the rules |
| 01:18 |
hmmmm |
the amount of approval required for something to be merged should always be the larger of the two in the case of a disagreement |
| 01:18 |
est31 |
https://llvm.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=17362 |
| 01:18 |
est31 |
:( |
| 01:18 |
hmmmm |
so if i say something requires 1 approval and you say 2, we go with 2 |
| 01:18 |
hmmmm |
more careful is always better |
| 01:19 |
est31 |
makes sense |
| 01:19 |
hmmmm |
if it's already been merged and another developer objects after the fact, then there's not much you can really do aside from raise your objections, have the original developer fix them, fix them yourself, or if it's too egregious of a problem, revert |
| 01:20 |
hmmmm |
any of those three actions require approval though, equal to the amount of approval the original change required |
| 01:21 |
hmmmm |
(wait, is the last sentence a good policy?) |
| 01:21 |
hmmmm |
it should take less approval to undo a change because it can always be re-done |
| 01:21 |
hmmmm |
if there is further disagreement |
| 01:22 |
hmmmm |
but we don't want a smaller group of developers engaging in a standoff by reverting everybody's commits |
| 01:22 |
hmmmm |
in any case i doubt it would matter since common sense ultimately overrules all |
| 01:22 |
est31 |
yes, reverting is no fun |
| 01:23 |
hmmmm |
these are just rules, not hard rules, but rules nevertheless, for maintaining some semblance of balance and order |
| 01:23 |
hmmmm |
and so others have an idea of what to expect under normal circumstances |
| 01:23 |
hmmmm |
without rules everybody would get upset due to mismatched expectations |
| 01:25 |
hmmmm |
paramat: yes, that could definitely closed |
| 01:25 |
hmmmm |
be closed* |
| 01:25 |
paramat |
ok |
| 01:25 |
paramat |
will do so |
| 01:26 |
hmmmm |
it's just that closing issues that are valid but hard to fix is really bad |
| 01:26 |
hmmmm |
if the main cause is a duplicate of another issue, close it for the reason of being a duplicate and link to the original |
| 01:27 |
hmmmm |
even if something is hard to fix doesn't mean we won't fix it, and it's always good to keep it in our issue tracker for visibility |
| 01:27 |
est31 |
<hmmmm> it's just that closing issues that are valid but hard to fix is really bad + 1000000 I hope paramat now changes his behaviour |
| 01:27 |
paramat |
ok |
| 01:27 |
hmmmm |
the PR might get solved later on if we make a big change like switching graphics engines |
| 01:28 |
hmmmm |
also that looks reflects bad on us imho because you're basically telling outsiders that if something is too hard you're not going to consider it |
| 01:28 |
paramat |
i welcome any checks on my closes, i may have made mistakes :) |
| 01:29 |
paramat |
i'm still looking for the duplicate, if i can't find one i'll re-open it |
| 01:31 |
hmmmm |
i think you might be able to get a chronologically ordered list of events a user performed on github |
| 01:31 |
hmmmm |
i can do that for commits but iunno how to for everything else like commenting or closing issues |
| 01:33 |
paramat |
if the duplicate exists it's not well labelled because searching by label didn't help, it's just a case of going through all 600 |
| 01:33 |
paramat |
thoughts on old issue #1033 ? |
| 01:33 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1033 -- Mapgen selection needs info text |
| 01:34 |
hmmmm |
mixed thoughts... on one hand i think the vague text and no description encourages users to explore each and form their own opinions |
| 01:34 |
hmmmm |
on the other hand i can definitely see how a friendlier ui would have descriptions for each |
| 01:34 |
hmmmm |
but actual descriptions that are multiple sentences, not (something in parentheses) like the original author of that issue wrote |
| 01:35 |
paramat |
i just think extra text should be elsewhere not in the dropdown |
| 01:35 |
hmmmm |
of course |
| 01:35 |
hmmmm |
it should be in a text pane to the left of the dropdown |
| 01:35 |
hmmmm |
err rather a static text label |
| 01:36 |
paramat |
well to avoid annoying most users i think don't display any extra info by default |
| 01:37 |
paramat |
i also disagree with marking out 'the default' in case it discourages use of the others |
| 01:38 |
hmmmm |
i don't think descriptions would annoy the user if the UI is designed correctly |
| 01:47 |
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| 01:47 |
paramat |
re-opened until i find the duplicate (if it exists) |
| 01:48 |
paramat |
is it the case that translucency z-sorting would still not work within a mapblock if each mapblock is a made scenenode? i may have misunderstood |
| 02:09 |
paramat |
nevermind :) it's not important |
| 02:14 |
est31 |
hmmmm, https://github.com/est31/minetest/commit/2ced546eb1208ac3f47b91afdfbbc1a225520fd9 |
| 02:14 |
est31 |
if you want to review, you can look at the library commits |
| 02:14 |
est31 |
and diff before, and diff after the commits |
| 02:15 |
est31 |
and if you want to review the clang-format commit, simply apply clang-format yourself if you dont trust me :) |
| 02:20 |
hmmmm |
[09:49 PM] <paramat> is it the case that translucency z-sorting would still not work within a mapblock if each mapblock is a made scenenode? i may have misunderstood |
| 02:20 |
hmmmm |
that is correct |
| 02:21 |
hmmmm |
the way to get transparency z-sorting to work correctly (under irrlicht, anyway) is to keep a separate scenenode for each translucent material |
| 02:22 |
paramat |
ah i see |
| 02:22 |
hmmmm |
switching to one-scenenode-per-mapblock won't do anything to help, but it would allow us to use irrlicht occlusion culling |
| 02:22 |
hmmmm |
or at least test it |
| 02:23 |
est31 |
and celeron55 would cheer because yet another thing to rebase against |
| 02:23 |
hmmmm |
this is why you keep your commits small and focused people |
| 02:24 |
est31 |
you want me to split up https://github.com/est31/minetest/commit/2ced546eb1208ac3f47b91afdfbbc1a225520fd9 ? |
| 02:24 |
est31 |
i can split it up into its original 6 commits |
| 02:25 |
est31 |
err 7 |
| 02:25 |
hmmmm |
no |
| 02:25 |
hmmmm |
there's no advantage to splitting that change up |
| 02:25 |
hmmmm |
something like celeron's 55 file change is a nice candidate for splitting |
| 02:26 |
hmmmm |
in any case, I hope you know that putting the result of an if statement body on the same line as the if statement is a huge violation of the minetest code style |
| 02:26 |
hmmmm |
just FWIW |
| 02:27 |
est31 |
ok, wont do it in minetest code |
| 02:27 |
hmmmm |
yeah you said you were looking to change it closer to minetest style... |
| 02:27 |
hmmmm |
just an FYI |
| 02:28 |
est31 |
ok |
| 02:29 |
est31 |
I didn't mean that the goal was to mimic minetest style as much as possible, the goal was rather to mimic my preferences |
| 02:29 |
est31 |
I edited it until i liked the style |
| 02:29 |
betterthanyou710 |
hi |
| 02:29 |
hmmmm |
est31, what do you think about this https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3929 |
| 02:30 |
est31 |
I hope you dont think I'm a horrible person now just because I prefer if on the same line :) |
| 02:30 |
betterthanyou710 |
est31 your a core developer right? |
| 02:30 |
hmmmm |
i do because you might be hiding something |
| 02:30 |
betterthanyou710 |
lol just like batman |
| 02:30 |
betterthanyou710 |
dun da da dunnnnnn |
| 02:31 |
hmmmm |
if (memcmp(password_hash, stored_hash, 20)) goto success; |
| 02:31 |
est31 |
betterthanyou710, yes I am |
| 02:31 |
hmmmm |
goto failure; |
| 02:31 |
est31 |
hehe |
| 02:31 |
est31 |
clang-format would ruthlessly format that however |
| 02:31 |
hmmmm |
"WHOOPS" that was a mistake |
| 02:31 |
betterthanyou710 |
est31 me and a friend were talking and you haave to be invited to become a core developer right? |
| 02:31 |
hmmmm |
RealBadAngel actually pulled something similar to that |
| 02:31 |
est31 |
it would make the goto failure on the same line |
| 02:31 |
betterthanyou710 |
we made a bet on it xD |
| 02:32 |
hmmmm |
if (g_settings->getBool("some_shader_feature_we_agreed_to_not_be_enabled_by_default"); { |
| 02:32 |
hmmmm |
... do stuff here ... |
| 02:32 |
hmmmm |
} |
| 02:32 |
est31 |
thats mean |
| 02:32 |
hmmmm |
he played ignorance |
| 02:35 |
est31 |
betterthanyou710, the rules are a bit more complicated, but yes, in the end you get invited on github, by c55: http://dev.minetest.net/Organisation#Assignment |
| 02:35 |
betterthanyou710 |
cool |
| 02:35 |
betterthanyou710 |
i also wanted to ask will you guys be doing more texture mods and adding shaders? |
| 02:36 |
betterthanyou710 |
cuz one of the only things that minecraft has over minetest is textures |
| 02:36 |
est31 |
hrmmmm I discovered a style issue |
| 02:36 |
est31 |
https://github.com/est31/minetest/commit/2ced546eb1208ac3f47b91afdfbbc1a225520fd9#diff-2f6369328116e9b654242a7597658a48R1011 |
| 02:37 |
est31 |
especially the line below |
| 02:37 |
est31 |
https://github.com/est31/minetest/commit/2ced546eb1208ac3f47b91afdfbbc1a225520fd9#diff-2f6369328116e9b654242a7597658a48R1012 |
| 02:37 |
est31 |
I think I will have to tweak the script.... |
| 02:37 |
est31 |
but before that, I go to bed |
| 02:38 |
betterthanyou710 |
ha same |
| 02:39 |
betterthanyou710 |
if u have a answer plz msg it to me |
| 02:39 |
hmmmm |
your question is off-topic for this channel |
| 02:40 |
paramat |
bbl after omnoms game#1022 |
| 02:40 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1022 -- Default/mapgen: Add upper limits to forest biomes and trees by paramat |
| 02:40 |
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| 02:44 |
betterthanyou710 |
sorry hmmmm ill ask on another channel |
| 02:44 |
kaeza |
while we're on the topic, VoxelArea is a nice candidate for style cleanup |
| 02:45 |
hmmmm |
yeah, it puts a lot of functions way larger than 3 lines into a header file, doesn't it? |
| 02:45 |
hmmmm |
speaking of which, util/string.h has a number of offenders there. |
| 02:45 |
kaeza |
no, I mean the naming convention |
| 02:45 |
kaeza |
all of Minetest is foo.do_something_useful(p1, p2, whatever) |
| 02:46 |
kaeza |
VoxelArea is VoxelArea:new{MinEdge=what,MaxEdge=what} |
| 02:46 |
hmmmm |
oh you're talking about the lua voxelarea |
| 02:46 |
kaeza |
yea |
| 02:46 |
hmmmm |
i'd rather not touch it |
| 02:46 |
kaeza |
nowhere else is CamelCase used for field names |
| 02:47 |
kaeza |
or methods for that matter |
| 02:47 |
hmmmm |
you're going to break compatibility and it's just a mirror of the VoxelArea inside the engine |
| 02:47 |
hmmmm |
and that's PascalCase, camelCase isLikeThis |
| 02:47 |
kaeza |
it shouldn't break compatibility if done right |
| 02:48 |
hmmmm |
idk how to do it |
| 02:48 |
kaeza |
VoxelArea should really be a function (like ItemStack) |
| 02:48 |
hmmmm |
if you can, no problem |
| 02:50 |
kaeza |
we should take some time to standardize on the naming conventions for Lua-visible symbols |
| 02:50 |
hmmmm |
perhaps |
| 02:50 |
hmmmm |
before we just jump in and make everything lower_case_underscore_style i think a vote should be taken to see what people find the most visually pleasing to work with |
| 02:50 |
kaeza |
other stuff that really gets on my nerve is that we have register_on_player_whatever, but get_timeofday, or even getvelocity |
| 02:51 |
kaeza |
I prefer "PascalCase" for "class" type things and words_with_underscores for fields and methods |
| 02:52 |
kaeza |
"class" as in, ItemStack, VoxelArea, perhaps Vector? |
| 02:52 |
hmmmm |
sure |
| 02:52 |
hmmmm |
make a vote thread about it on the forum even |
| 02:52 |
hmmmm |
you want to or should i? |
| 02:53 |
kaeza |
my english sucks. could you? :) |
| 02:53 |
hmmmm |
that sounds like an excuse |
| 02:54 |
hmmmm |
i don't think anybody would be able to tell you were a non-native speaker |
| 02:54 |
hmmmm |
from text anyway |
| 02:54 |
kaeza |
okay okay, gimme a few mins to come up with something |
| 02:54 |
hmmmm |
well ok |
| 03:14 |
OldCoder |
kaeza, I will edit, if you like |
| 03:14 |
OldCoder |
But I'm sure it will be fine |
| 03:14 |
OldCoder |
TBH I had no idea originally of your native language |
| 03:29 |
sofar |
:386 |
| 03:29 |
sofar |
wheps :D |
| 03:38 |
kaeza |
hmmmm, PTAL https://gist.github.com/kaeza/072684493564eaabfe0d8f42f965e806 |
| 03:38 |
kaeza |
Cc OldCoder ^ |
| 03:39 |
hmmmm |
as an aside, I like the ItemStack() notation |
| 03:39 |
hmmmm |
it's like a constructor |
| 03:40 |
hmmmm |
yeah i agree with your proposal |
| 03:41 |
hmmmm |
post looks good |
| 03:48 |
kaeza |
let's see how long before it gets Godwin'd #3980 |
| 03:48 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3980 -- Standardizing API naming and calling conventions. |
| 04:08 |
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| 04:21 |
Zeno` |
brb going to laptop |
| 04:22 |
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| 04:43 |
Zeno` |
everything lower_case_underscore_style <--- very annoying to type |
| 04:43 |
Zeno` |
i.e. I think get_timeofday is better than get_time_of_day |
| 04:44 |
Zeno` |
But I don't really want to get involved in this discussion again hehe |
| 05:11 |
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hmmmm |
it's consistent with everything else though |
| 07:21 |
hmmmm |
i will admit it is pretty annoying to type |
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Zeno` |
yes, for API function names it certainly needs to be consistent |
| 09:16 |
Obani |
would be less confusing indeed |
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| 12:49 |
est31 |
https://github.com/est31/minetest/commit/ebdffeb2ab5cd36406308eae72a923df1275ad4b |
| 12:49 |
est31 |
okay last chance to say something, i will push in ten minutes |
| 12:50 |
sfan5 |
all those formatting changes seem useless |
| 12:51 |
sfan5 |
and you're still checking fclose and CryptReleaseContext |
| 12:51 |
sfan5 |
fine otherwise |
| 12:56 |
est31 |
better one check too much than one too few |
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Foghrye4 |
I'm still waiting for my pull request to be accepted. Or, at least, rejected. So, here is a video: https://youtu.be/vWE3fjOgwIc |
| 19:01 |
sfan5 |
give it a little title |
| 19:01 |
sfan5 |
time* |
| 19:02 |
hmmmm |
only 6 days? |
| 19:03 |
sofar |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aopen+sort%3Acreated-asc |
| 19:03 |
sofar |
Jul 9, 2013 |
| 19:03 |
sofar |
oldest pending PR |
| 19:03 |
Foghrye4 |
Why so slow? |
| 19:05 |
hmmmm |
because minetest isn't a full time job for anybody here |
| 19:07 |
Foghrye4 |
So, new features will be implemented only in 0.4.14? |
| 19:07 |
sofar |
after |
| 19:07 |
Foghrye4 |
Even after!? |
| 19:08 |
sofar |
yes, 0.4.14 is coming out in a short bit, so after that features can be added to master |
| 19:09 |
hmmmm |
this is more of a #minetest topic |
| 19:25 |
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| 19:40 |
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| 19:42 |
paramat |
please could devs add their opinions to #3774 ? perhaps it would be good to bring this to a resolution |
| 19:42 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3774 -- Halo: highlight selected face by RealBadAngel |
| 19:47 |
hmmmm |
it honestly seems like a bit too much |
| 19:56 |
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| 20:05 |
nore |
hmmmm: yes, but if it is configurable... |
| 20:13 |
paramat |
here are my 2 mapgen PRs needed for release #3973 #3974 |
| 20:13 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3973 -- Mgvalleys: Don't let cavegen place biome nodes everywhere by paramat |
| 20:13 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3974 -- Mgv5: Optimise tunnels, add biome material in entrances by paramat |
| 20:17 |
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| 20:22 |
paramat |
nore any opinion on game#543 ? |
| 20:22 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/543 -- Strengthen obsidian glass by tenplus1 |
| 20:29 |
paramat |
i might merge #2094 later |
| 20:29 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2094 -- Fix offset being ignored by inventory bar HUD by rubenwardy |
| 20:31 |
paramat |
maybe also #3985 since it's trivial |
| 20:31 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3985 -- Minimap: revert change from RGBA to Indexed by sofar |
| 20:35 |
PilzAdam |
paramat, you can merge #3985 |
| 20:35 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3985 -- Minimap: revert change from RGBA to Indexed by sofar |
| 20:35 |
paramat |
ok |
| 20:40 |
paramat |
closed #3429 |
| 20:40 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3429 -- Configurable damage screen intensity |
| 21:23 |
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| 21:49 |
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| 22:08 |
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| 22:09 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: as I recall, one of RBA |
| 22:09 |
VanessaE |
...RBA's goals was more eye candy |
| 22:09 |
VanessaE |
done in such a way as to be customizable. |
| 22:09 |
hmmmm |
don't you love how the ' is right next to the enter key |
| 22:09 |
VanessaE |
so I don't see any harm in adding that feature. |
| 22:09 |
VanessaE |
no, I hate it :P |
| 22:10 |
hmmmm |
i had a keyboard where there was an indentation between the enter key and the ' which prevented such errors |
| 22:10 |
hmmmm |
was my favorite |
| 22:10 |
VanessaE |
whatever moron it was who decided on that ought to have been shot |
| 22:10 |
celeron55 |
best keyboard design features: ' right next to enter; backspace right next to enter |
| 22:10 |
VanessaE |
well I have a 3d printer, I suppose I could create a replacement Enter key with a similar indentation |
| 22:10 |
hmmmm |
ya in any case |
| 22:11 |
hmmmm |
all this stuff should be configurable but look at how many entries there are in minetest.conf.example |
| 22:11 |
hmmmm |
just too many |
| 22:11 |
hmmmm |
but it's actually quite typical for games to have a lot of configurable options - the nitty gritty options are more hidden though |
| 22:11 |
VanessaE |
celeron55: I had one once that was the MOST irritating design ever - a second backspace key occupying half the footprint normally reserved for the spacebar |
| 22:12 |
hmmmm |
like you know in the console how they have sl_some_crazy_option = 5 |
| 22:12 |
celeron55 |
it's going to always be too many and it can't be solved by forcefully removing them; there needs to be some way for a human to manage the too many settings |
| 22:12 |
PilzAdam |
hmmmm, we now have a nice GUI for the settings |
| 22:12 |
hmmmm |
well those are usually auto-set with an option that encompasses all similar settings |
| 22:12 |
PilzAdam |
where it's possible to hide some advanced settings |
| 22:12 |
hmmmm |
like a slider control for visual effects |
| 22:12 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: the current GUI works well for that. "basic" stuff first, "Advanced" stuff behind a button |
| 22:12 |
hmmmm |
no i'm not talking about hiding most of the advanced settings |
| 22:12 |
Fixer |
VanessaE, yeah, designers are nuts those days, well designed classical keyboard is too boring it seems, and we need some more mazohism |
| 22:12 |
hmmmm |
i'm talking about better settings configuration design in general |
| 22:12 |
VanessaE |
you mean more like a "good, better, best" gradation? |
| 22:12 |
hmmmm |
yes |
| 22:13 |
hmmmm |
so if you had a Visual Effects slider that you could crank all the way up you'd have RBA's presets |
| 22:13 |
VanessaE |
I'm not entirely against such a thing, so long as one can still get into, as you put it, the "nitty gritty" if desired. |
| 22:13 |
hmmmm |
and if you really wanted to disable this one option, you can, via the text config file |
| 22:13 |
hmmmm |
naw'mean? |
| 22:14 |
celeron55 |
you don't really need to touch the text file; just open the advanced settings |
| 22:14 |
celeron55 |
but same thing |
| 22:14 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: exactly that. |
| 22:14 |
hmmmm |
yea |
| 22:14 |
hmmmm |
this is what the standard for AAA games is i think |
| 22:14 |
hmmmm |
so okay |
| 22:15 |
hmmmm |
i guess my complaint isn't with having too many config options, it's more a matter of presenting all these options to the end user |
| 22:15 |
VanessaE |
Fixer: I'd have been more happy with one of those weird split-in-half M$ keyboards :P |
| 22:15 |
hmmmm |
in an awkward manner |
| 22:15 |
VanessaE |
(but I don't think they existed at the time) |
| 22:15 |
hmmmm |
in fact you know something, this is one of my ideas for the mapgen noiseparams config settings that never happened |
| 22:15 |
VanessaE |
how do you mean? |
| 22:16 |
hmmmm |
you remember a long time ago, I wanted just one mapgen, but all the noise parameters were freely configurable |
| 22:16 |
VanessaE |
yes |
| 22:16 |
hmmmm |
but that would be too many options, so there'd be a dropdown box where you select one of "flat, forests, plains, oceans, islands" etc. |
| 22:16 |
hmmmm |
and that enters the presets of noiseparams for that type of terrain |
| 22:17 |
hmmmm |
well like that |
| 22:17 |
hmmmm |
except for other config options |
| 22:18 |
VanessaE |
I could see checkboxes for oceans, deserts, jungles, and other large-scale map features, though. |
| 22:18 |
VanessaE |
but yeah, having some presets would be good |
| 22:19 |
hmmmm |
the 'select a checkbox for each desired terrain feature' idea already exists in the form of paramat's not-so-simple flat mapgen |
| 22:19 |
VanessaE |
well you know what I meant |
| 22:20 |
VanessaE |
I so rarely create new worlds, I don't actually know what the current state of the GUI for it is. |
| 22:22 |
VanessaE |
though one thing I had wished for at one time was a "preview" of sorts, not unlike you see in some older games like Micropolis/Sim City |
| 22:22 |
hmmmm |
we can still do that |
| 22:22 |
VanessaE |
Something simple, like that online thing celeron55 had for "making sense of" perlin params |
| 22:23 |
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| 22:25 |
hmmmm |
yeah |
| 22:25 |
hmmmm |
i already made something like that, it's just not a part of minetest |
| 22:26 |
hmmmm |
also i have a 3d mode: http://i.imgur.com/2l13W0U.png |
| 22:26 |
VanessaE |
oh that's nice |
| 22:26 |
hmmmm |
that's for figuring out appropriate biome values |
| 22:28 |
hmmmm |
i think it's more beneficial in the long run to figuring out how to short circuit some logic in minetest to make it generate and display map faster without entering an actual game |
| 22:28 |
hmmmm |
s/to// |
| 22:28 |
hmmmm |
i coded this up and then compared to minetest's source and it looks really close to mapblock_mesh.cpp |
| 22:29 |
VanessaE |
well, you could produce a bare, false-color terrain maybe. no deco, no trees (well unless it's easy), no lua mapgen hooks, etc |
| 22:30 |
VanessaE |
that would certainly short-circuit it |
| 23:01 |
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| 23:42 |
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| 23:43 |
est31 |
regarding settings, we could improve i think and make some settings per world |
| 23:43 |
est31 |
and allow the user to change those settings |
| 23:43 |
est31 |
as well as mods to define new settings |
| 23:43 |
est31 |
I do like however how we present the current settings to the users |
| 23:44 |
VanessaE |
est31: you're taking after paramat :P |
| 23:44 |
est31 |
hah lol |
| 23:44 |
est31 |
yeah lets close some issues |
| 23:44 |
est31 |
what about #3970 , there are no graphical bugs |
| 23:44 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3970 -- Graphical bugs when drawing inventory hud |
| 23:44 |
est31 |
its a lovely characteristic! |
| 23:45 |
est31 |
same for |
| 23:45 |
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| 23:45 |
est31 |
#3964 |
| 23:45 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3964 -- lighting glitch |
| 23:45 |
est31 |
we must close them all |
| 23:45 |
est31 |
592 open issues are too much1 |
| 23:45 |
est31 |
! |
| 23:45 |
est31 |
xD |
| 23:46 |
hmmmm |
i don't get what that last issue is about |
| 23:46 |
est31 |
probably they mined, and suddenly there was light |
| 23:46 |
est31 |
out of nowhere no torch no anything |
| 23:47 |
hmmmm |
oh is that what it is |
| 23:47 |
hmmmm |
ahh i see it now, that hole in the ceiling looked like it was connecting the surface to the cave he's in |
| 23:48 |
hmmmm |
can't do anything there until he tries the latest version |
| 23:50 |
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| 23:50 |
est31 |
yeah its really one of the kind of bugs you dont want |
| 23:50 |
est31 |
probably hard to reproduce, etc. |
| 23:50 |
est31 |
but still, perhaps there is hope to solve them |
| 23:55 |
est31 |
going again |
| 23:55 |
est31 |
bye all |
