Time Nick Message 00:27 Taoki Hey there. Is there any news on RealBadAngel? It's been over a week since his heart attack... someone must know something. 00:29 sofar no news, nothing. 00:29 Taoki ok :( 01:25 paramat now merging games 891 799 892 880 01:45 paramat merged 01:46 paramat down to 31 PRs nice 01:50 paramat and now attempting merge of game 794 01:52 paramat finished, merge failed 01:52 sofar that should be easy to fix tho 02:15 paramat yes. docs need improving too 04:08 paramat hmmmm what do you think about reverting 'Allow setting chunksize in core.set_mapgen_params'? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/5130dbce7b294c392733e93c05e2099786523342 it's used by few and i feel it should be discouraged. also we could remove documentation of the 'chunksize' setting from conf.example and settingtypes.txt to discourage use 04:09 hmmmm uhh, weren't you the one who asked for that commit? 04:12 paramat not sure, but i do remember something was done to chunksize to fix a bug, investigating.. 04:13 hmmmm in any case, i don't think chunksize should be settable from the lua api 04:13 hmmmm i never did 04:13 hmmmm somebody made a PR about how they can read chunksize but not set it, i offered an explaination why, and then you gave the ol' "well we'll be really careful, I PROMISE" so then it got added 04:14 paramat oops 04:14 paramat i'll search for what happened 04:15 hmmmm i don't mind what you do, just be aware that it will break existing worlds if you remove that option now 04:16 paramat https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3222 04:16 paramat indeed we need to support it, but disallowing setting it will not break worlds 04:17 paramat i +1 then changed to neutral on the issue 04:18 paramat idiot moi 04:21 paramat do you think it should remain settable in .conf and advanced settings menu? 04:23 paramat anyway at the least i'll revert setting it in 'set mapgen params' 04:28 hmmmm the commit you linked does more than that 04:29 paramat yes i'll leave the other stuff untouched, i won't use 'revert' 04:29 hmmmm how won't this break worlds? 04:30 paramat erm, because it's stored in map meta? 04:31 hmmmm is it?? 04:31 paramat yes, checked 04:31 paramat 'Making it a param and being able to 'get' it was done on my request as a way of getting chunksize in certain situations' 04:32 paramat i think it fixed a bug we were having 04:32 paramat iirc 04:32 hmmmm i don't see where any mapgen settings set through lua get stored in map_meta.txt 04:33 paramat it's also set through default settings and .conf or advanced menu 04:33 hmmmm so? 04:34 paramat but i have a world here that contains 'chunksize = 5' in map meta txt 04:34 hmmmm player uses a mod that explicitly sets chunksize through lua 04:34 hmmmm non-default chunksize is not set in map_meta.txt 04:34 hmmmm you create a patch removing chunksize setting functionality 04:34 hmmmm player's world now uses the map_meta.txt stored chunksize, not the mod's override 04:35 paramat ah 04:35 hmmmm now the player gets large chunks of content_ignore between the generated and non-generated land 04:35 hmmmm how is this case averted? 04:36 paramat perhaps we can't revert then 04:36 hmmmm in addition to breakage, the creator of that PR convinced me that it would be a fine addition for his use case 04:37 hmmmm so i think it should stay 04:37 paramat ok agreed 04:37 paramat thanks 18:18 sofar I reopened game#758 with different steel door sounds 18:18 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/758 -- Add sounds for steel doors. by sofar 18:29 est31 I see the commit is from oct 2015 18:29 est31 so its not in 0.4.13 yet 18:29 est31 dev stuff can be broken IMO 18:29 est31 users explicitly have to install a mod 18:30 est31 but if hmmmm thinks it should stay, i have no problem with it staying 18:42 sofar I was thinking that it wouldn't be too hard to make a tool that allows you to delete blocks from map.sqlite 18:42 sofar it would come in handy for several purposes 18:42 sofar e.g. regenning map, pruning blocks for a server map, etc. 18:43 est31 in fact there already exist such tools 18:44 est31 from the just test server creator 18:44 sofar doesn't surprise me 18:45 sofar what's the faceposition cache you're referring to? 18:45 est31 some stuff nrz introduced 18:56 celeron55 we probably should have an official multi-purpose tool for managing worlds at the block level 18:56 celeron55 but it's really up to whether someone can make it and maintain it 18:57 celeron55 one notable thing is that hmmmm wanted to make an abstraction layer for world serialization which could have been used for something like that too, but that never happened 18:58 est31 you mean a library? 18:58 sofar having a worldedit method would be nice, but I'm afraid of allowing in-game code to destroy large areas :) 18:58 est31 i dont know whether that will work, isnt it impossible to do C++ libraries 18:58 est31 and a C library, idk whether thats a good idea 18:59 celeron55 of course alternatively the editor could be in minetest itself instead of being a separate tool 18:59 sfan5 or it could be a library and both 18:59 celeron55 none of that is exactly trivial though 19:00 est31 idk we already generate two separate binaries, minetest and minetestserver 19:00 est31 we can have minetestworldedit or whatever its called as well 19:00 celeron55 well maybe the easiest one could be just a bunch of command line options to command minetest to do some bulk operations 19:00 sofar it should be trivial in python to just write a sqlite manipulation thingamabob 19:00 celeron55 sofar: those exist already 19:00 est31 in fact I've done that already for bugfixing some maps :) 19:01 celeron55 i don't know where to find the most recent one though 19:01 celeron55 also OldCoder has been working on something related to this 19:01 celeron55 i don't know how generic it is, but he has said it can be used to combine worlds and automatically remove unused blocks from worlds 19:02 twoelk would be nice if OldCoder would publish what he used to manipulate the Landrush map when he recreated the server 19:03 twoelk or what he used for redcrab server 19:05 est31 there is this https://github.com/AndrejIT/map_unexplore 19:05 est31 with mt_block_parser.py 19:06 twoelk Such a tool could also include something to extract nodes that cause trouble or crash the server without having to actually start minetest 19:07 est31 yeah 19:07 est31 I have done precisely that already 19:07 est31 for the too much entities in a block bug 19:07 est31 but cant find it right now 19:08 est31 thats it https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2610 19:08 est31 code here https://github.com/est31/minetest/commits/fix_too_many_entities_bug 19:28 est31 has a very fast method to delete all entities in a world 19:39 ShadowNinja Turns out rewriting formatChatLine was easier than trying to decypher it to find an indentation bug. The result is probably half as long. 19:40 ShadowNinja #3811 should work properly now. 19:40 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3811 -- Add configurable timestamp to console messages by ShadowNinja 19:41 Fixer ShadowNinja, thanks, i will try it today 19:43 ShadowNinja Incoming patch: http://ix.io/pkS/diff 19:44 twoelk est31: what if I need to downright replace a certain node worldwide without aliasing it or something similar 19:45 est31 ShadowNinja, +1 19:46 est31 ShadowNinja, you want to +1 my LBM PR #3677 19:46 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3677 -- Add minetest.register_lbm() to run code on block load only by est31 19:47 est31 ? 19:51 Obani With the new chat, ^ character isn't supported anymore 19:51 Obani Is that normal ? 19:51 Obani afk 19:55 est31 ^ works for me 19:55 ShadowNinja est31: Which one did you +1? And not quite yet, I'll have to take another look at your latest version, but I GTG now. 19:56 est31 Incoming patch: http://ix.io/pkS/diff 19:56 ShadowNinja est31: OK, thanks, I'll push that once I get back. 19:58 est31 Obani, you want to use ^ to generate stuff like ĉ ? 20:12 sofar #3820 20:12 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3820 -- Add consistent monotonous day counter - get_daycount() by sofar 20:17 sofar I wish I had thought of that earlier... I've been attempting to implement a sane calendar in a mod for ages 20:22 est31 afk 20:32 est31 sofar, perhaps also a setter for the day count? 20:32 est31 and ShadowNinja will probably like it more if its get_day_count 20:32 sofar get_gametime 20:32 sofar but, sure 20:33 sofar I thought about a setter, and it doesn't make any sense to me to have one 20:33 sofar you can edit env_meta.txt if you really want to change it 20:33 sofar enabling time travel seems weird 20:34 sofar the patch itself is trivial, renaming it is fine with me. ShadowNinja ? 20:36 juraj_ hi, could i please ask question about minetest api and server performance ? 20:36 sofar you can ask in #minetest as well, juraj_ 20:37 juraj_ ok thanks 20:38 est31 there is already time travel for the time of day value 20:38 sofar nonsense, that's just nothing more than taking a quick nap ;) 20:41 est31 monotonic monotonous in german you say "monoton" 20:41 est31 nice and short :) 20:44 celeron55 i don't think there should be a setter 20:44 celeron55 it would just make mods mess up each other and be lazy 20:45 celeron55 or, well, dunno really 20:46 est31 perhaps we can consider adding it if there is an actual use case for it 20:49 celeron55 well i'm sure that lazy mods will just reset the counter instead of keeping track of where it started, and mess up other mods by doing so; what i am not sure about is whether there is a valid use case that would overcome that 20:50 sofar that's why I prefer there to be no setter 20:50 sofar besides 20:50 est31 what about a /day command 20:50 est31 /time shows you the current time 20:50 sofar if mods wanted to modify it, they should keep a shadow value 20:50 sofar good idea 20:51 celeron55 i suspect some mods have a /day command that equals /time 12000 20:51 est31 ah 20:52 celeron55 just saying 8) 20:52 sofar we can see if that's the case 20:52 celeron55 maybe there isn't, actually 20:52 celeron55 not a very common one at least 20:52 est31 i think in minecraft the chat commands arent prefixed by / 20:53 est31 and on many servers there are people who try to do commands 20:53 est31 often you hear people saying "day" nothing else 20:53 est31 probably its a valid minecraft command 20:53 sofar it's probably a mod to "make it day" 20:54 Calinou in Minecraft you need a / for commands, pretty sure 20:54 est31 hmm right 20:54 Calinou http://users.kymp.net/feuer/etcomic/013.jpg 20:54 sofar in MC, or at least bukkit etc. mods can intercept chat commands and treat them as commands 20:57 est31 ah 20:57 est31 in minecraft it is possible to do commands without slash 20:57 est31 but only in the server console 20:58 celeron55 in minetest you can do absolutely anything based on anything in the chat 8) 20:59 celeron55 (but the engine encourages /commands so that's what everyone uses) 21:04 twoelk some chat mods filter for swear words - you could see swear words as commands that trigger punishment action :-P 21:05 est31 lol 21:06 est31 its always fun watching people avoid those filters 21:06 est31 F U C K YOU! 21:08 sofar so, /day command is 5 lines of code, might as well add it, right? 21:09 celeron55 as a read-only command, sure 21:09 est31 register_chatcommand i think works in a way where registering the same command again overrides it right? 21:09 celeron55 i imagine it being handy for developing stuff based on days 21:09 est31 or is it with table.insert 21:09 sofar yes, it just displays "Current day is " .. core.get_day_count() 21:09 celeron55 or, testing 21:09 est31 yeah thats what i asked for too 21:09 est31 was in my mind* 21:10 sofar I've got a pending project to do seasonal day/night length variation 21:10 sofar that'll be one 21:10 sofar the second one is a consistent calendar 21:10 sofar like /date 21:14 paramat nore sfan5 i will soon work on 2 things: make beds white and not dependant on red dye, because roses can be distant in mgv7. add root/branch nodes for jungletrees that have 6 exterior tiles 21:15 paramat and then later for other trees 21:17 kaadmy Calinou: http://users.kymp.net/~feuer/etcomic/023.jpg 21:26 Calinou Minetest needs m_pitch 21:26 Calinou for CTF :) 21:27 est31 all the time irrlicht limitations are cited 21:38 paramat nore sfan5 possible close? any comments? game#436 21:39 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/436 -- Add footstep sounds for liquids by MirceaKitsune 21:39 sfan5 water footstep sounds? 21:39 sfan5 hm 21:40 paramat idea is ok but implementation and sounds here not good 21:43 nore paramat: well, I never use sound when I play a game, so I'm completely neutral on this 21:45 paramat ok, but it's the implementation and sounds that is the problem here 21:47 nore paramat: lava sounds aren't a very good idea I think 21:48 nore except if you have very good ones (what should even it be?) 21:48 nore about water sounds, well, if you have good ones, then yes 21:49 paramat yeah i might even attempt water sounds myself sometime, but subtle and suitable for underwater 21:49 paramat and one silent sound to break up the regularity 21:53 sofar there's plenty of good sounds on freesound.org 21:53 sofar some are really nice 21:53 sofar just edit them so they can be mixed up nicely 21:55 sofar e.g. add fade-in/fade-out, tune length for overlap 21:55 paramat yeah that's where i would search 21:56 sofar that place is a goldmine 22:02 est31 lol 22:03 est31 in goldmines the gold concentration is less than 1% of the mined material :) 22:03 est31 much less 22:10 sofar the total amount of gold on earth, mined and unmined, would not even fill a soccer stadium 22:13 Fixer What I like in MC, is that it capitalizes first letters and adds . at the end, simulating literate people %) 22:13 sofar Maybe you can implement an IRC filter that automatically modifies chat messages that way. 22:14 kaadmy Fixer: in chat? 22:14 sofar Make everyone seem litterate ;) 22:14 sofar s/tt/t/ 22:14 kaadmy ^ heh 22:14 Fixer kaadmy, in chat 22:15 sofar [ot] I've never seen an MC server do that. Vanilla or Bukkit? 22:15 Fixer what I don't like is some strange swastika like animated symbols in chat that rotate and change colour, wth was that? 22:15 Fixer sofar, probably bukkit 22:24 est31 sofar, about 3800 22:24 est31 you said in the commit description: "Protection mods will likely want to mimic the changes in their relevant code sections" 22:24 sofar yes? 22:25 est31 why so 22:25 est31 you can simply replace minetest.is_protected, no? 22:26 sofar protection mods currently have to override minetest.is_protected() 22:26 est31 yes 22:26 est31 thats the intended use 22:26 sofar so e.g. node_dig() calls minetest.is_protected() 22:26 sofar which is fine, since the access priv check is in node_dig() 22:27 sofar but, it won't catch other interactions, chest privs etc. I think 22:27 est31 so what mimicking is required then 22:27 paramat +1 for new steel door sounds 22:28 sofar insert a check for the protection_bypass check before other checks 22:28 sofar *priv 22:28 sofar paramat: ty, yes, that sound was a great find. 22:28 est31 sofar, but if there is one check already inside minetest.is_protected 22:28 sofar protection mods *override* it, the API tells them to 22:28 est31 then why is it still required to have in node_dig 22:29 est31 yes 22:29 est31 isnt it better to just leave it to protection mods 22:29 sofar yes but the is_protected() API was designed wrongly 22:30 sofar you can't chain multiple protection mods 22:30 sofar since the API doc clearly says "protection mods override this function" 22:30 sofar had it been better designed, than it would have been easy 22:30 sofar e.g. minetest.register_protection(func) 22:31 est31 well & chaining still is possible 22:31 sofar it certainly is 22:31 sofar but would require all protection mods to behave 22:31 est31 just || chaining isnt 22:32 sofar it has to be more sophisticated, yes 22:32 est31 well if you dont install a mod that behaves its your problem 22:32 sofar sure 22:32 sofar it's worth redoing imho 22:33 sofar but it also means redesign of the protection mods callback 22:35 est31 I am open to proposaly 22:35 sofar right now they return "allowed" or "denied", but it should be "I don't care", "explicitly allowed", "explicitly denied" I think 22:35 est31 proposals* 22:35 est31 but first I want to see sth better than currently 22:35 sofar the crux is 22:35 est31 there is nil, true and false 22:35 est31 lua ftw 22:35 sofar yes 22:35 sofar that's what I'm thinking 22:36 sofar say, 2 protection mods 22:36 sofar step 1) protection_bypass? yes: done 22:36 sofar step 2) call _all_ protection mods 22:36 sofar if a mod explicitly denies -> deny 22:36 sofar if a mod explicitly allows -> allow 22:37 sofar nothing ? allow 22:37 sofar if one mod denies, other explicitly allows? crap 22:38 sofar of course, if you 'break' when an explicit allow/deny is found, you avoid the problem 22:38 est31 schrodinger solution :) 22:38 sofar protection mods can reorder themselves, too 22:38 sofar bar/depends.txt: foo? 22:39 est31 eww 22:39 est31 that sounds bad 22:39 sofar arms race 22:39 est31 it should rather be left to the person who deploys the mod 22:39 sofar I'm wondering whether it's realistic concern or not 22:40 sofar e.g. someone grants permission to another person in an area that's also protected with a different protection mod 22:40 est31 the other question to extend for the protection api is about actions 22:40 sofar maybe 22:40 sofar explicit allow trumps denies? 22:40 est31 like: you grant access to chests 22:41 sofar so 'deny' -> no break, try more 22:41 sofar yes, something like taht 22:41 est31 but no access to placing blocks 22:41 sofar I think allow > deny could work 22:41 sofar Order allow, deny 22:41 * sofar has bad dreams about httpd.conf 22:42 est31 lol 22:42 est31 we can make it a setting 22:48 paramat shall we merge #3448 before conflicts arise again? sure it's ok? 22:48 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3448 -- Faster insertion into table by Rui914 22:49 sofar I'd vote merge 22:53 paramat it seems ok to me 22:54 paramat +1 22:54 paramat ok that's now mergeable 22:55 est31 yes 22:57 paramat 3800 seems ready too 22:59 sofar est31 is having a party with that one 22:59 est31 party? 22:59 sofar hyperbole 23:01 paramat ah ok 23:19 paramat ok i'll merge 3448 soon before conflicts arise 23:25 paramat and possibly #3816 once i've reviewed it 23:25 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3816 -- Settings Tab : Regroup dropdown datas in tables by kilbith 23:30 paramat +1 on that 23:39 paramat now merging those 2 23:51 paramat merged 23:52 paramat ugh down to 128 PRs feels so good 23:55 Fixer lol 23:55 Fixer too optimistic 23:56 rubenwardy now get 64 ;) 23:57 est31 somebody could look at my PR 23:57 est31 with the LBMs 23:57 est31 ShadowNinja is still gone it seems