Time Nick Message 00:01 sapier and you're gonna add +1 if protocol is updated next time? ;) 00:02 cmdskp I already did ;) 00:02 cmdskp but that may be incremented further before I find a way round myself ^_^ 00:02 sapier usually you should change things in a way old clients wont even notice it 00:02 sapier e.g. by adding additional fields 00:02 sapier old clients just ignore them 00:03 sapier new clients should handle both old style and new one prefering the new one if present 00:03 cmdskp yes, unfortunately, I'm not up to scratch on the network system to determine the best way to handle it, so I'm hoping for some help with this bit :) 00:04 sapier it's always better to check what you actually need then check some number that might or might not be correct 00:05 red-001 is anyone working on client sided lua? 00:05 cmdskp From my understanding, looking at other parts of the code around it, they used to pass in a version number as a byte in some sections and then determine from that what is needed 00:06 cmdskp or what is expected 00:06 est31 red-001, no, but its a promised bride. 00:06 est31 both hmmm and c55 want to do it, and have done preparations 00:07 * red-001 wonders how hard it would be to do 00:08 sapier est31 me to about a year ago ;-P 00:08 red-001 why not anymore? 00:08 sapier eventually someone will really do it 00:09 red-001 and (hopeful) get their PR merged 00:09 sapier well I was distracted from doing it by some formspec things I merged for someone else ... resulting in me to fix all the "changes" 00:09 est31 red-001, there are many issues client side lua has to do 00:09 est31 fulfill 00:09 est31 like sandboxing 00:10 est31 and other issues are disputed between core devs 00:10 sapier est31 actually all of them are already done 00:10 est31 e.g. whether to run it in the main thread, or in a separate thread 00:10 sapier 90% of it's code is already in 00:10 est31 sapier, you mean SN's sandboxing? 00:10 sapier nope 00:10 est31 its nice, but has to be more strict. 00:10 red-001 then whats stopping it? 00:11 est31 idk 00:11 sapier when I implemented the lua based mainmenu I already did write it in a way you can create lua stacks with minimal content 00:11 red-001 if 90% of the code is done 00:11 est31 everybody wanting to do it and saying "i want to do it" then not doing work on it until sb else says "I do it" 00:11 sapier actually the async worker threads of mainmenu ARE those minimal environments 00:12 sapier My plan by that time was starting the client side lua with some minimal feature set 00:13 sapier e.g. first only supporting prediction of formspec inventory changes 00:13 est31 cmdskp, where exactly do you want to get the version? 00:14 sapier but I'm not very eager to spend my time on work someone else already started 00:14 cmdskp line 1664 of content_cao 00:15 sapier so unless hmmm and celeron don't say "do it" I'm not gonna start working at it again 00:16 cmdskp a test for the client to check if the server is returning protocol version 27, I believe 00:16 est31 cmdskp, can you give me a github link of that line? 00:16 sapier imho first prototype is about one week of work ... assuming most of the preparations I did are still intact 00:16 est31 cmdskp, click on the line, it will change the url then copy it here 00:16 cmdskp https://github.com/cmdskp/minetest/blob/54ede741a9b01b34b8a64cf2cc929398a5d167d5/src/content_cao.cpp#L1665 00:17 cmdskp ty 00:17 est31 cmdskp, I think you only have to catch the serialisation error here 00:17 est31 using exceptions like if clauses hehe 00:18 est31 but idk, its better than raising protocol version for nothing 00:18 est31 or do you already raise it for some other reason? 00:18 cmdskp ah, that's good to know - I wonder considering the comments below about if sends nothing 00:18 sapier est31 is right catching the serializatiin error is the common way this is done 00:19 sapier protocol version change usual is only done if there's something incompatible 00:19 cmdskp the only reason I can think of is to deny an old client connection to a server running with slippery engaged - it'd be advantageous to the client to not be slipping compared to those up-to-date 00:20 cmdskp on ice, for example 00:20 sapier isn't slippery something like "hunger" ... I guess some ppl wont like it very much 00:20 est31 yeah 00:21 est31 in fact I dont I have to admit 00:21 cmdskp fortunately, I've included a method to override slippery to allow cancelling it out 00:21 est31 still it should be added imo bc some ppl like it 00:21 cmdskp for modders 00:21 cmdskp It's setup in the node groups too, so people can include or not as they wish :) 00:22 sapier to be honest I'd not like it ... but if others do 00:23 cmdskp It won't be active unless people add a slippery=X to a node 00:23 sapier especially as I don't see a good way to implement this for entities or items 00:23 cmdskp entities and items slip too 00:23 sapier e.g. what to do for entities with > 1x1 collision boxes ... calculate average slippery? 00:24 cmdskp they use the node slippery factor to adjust their relative speed 00:24 sapier which one? center? corner? 00:25 est31 well in fact the problem exists for 1x1 collision boxes too 00:25 cmdskp That's handled by Irrlicht I believe, which appears to use the whole bounding box for collisions 00:25 sapier e.g. have a huge whale 3x4 and a single line of ice in the middle ... shall it slip to the end just becaus it's center is above the ice? ;-) 00:26 sapier est31 yes but there the effect isn't that obvious 00:26 cmdskp Oh, it doesn't keep slipping normally, just for a few nodes (depending on the setting) 00:27 sapier I implemented friction for my monorail mod ages ago ... effects of physical correct implementation sometimes feel strange in minetest environment :-) 00:27 sapier especially if you implement air resistance too :-) 00:27 cmdskp It would be computationally expensive to check the whole area under an entities collision box 00:27 gregorycu Hello all 00:28 est31 hi gregorycu ! 00:28 sapier still without calculating inertion the result will be suboptimal 00:28 est31 inertion? 00:28 gregorycu I think I better have a look at some of my PRs 00:28 cmdskp It does raise an interesting option to add - a slip factor on non-player entities to stop the slippery, like I've added for players with physics_override 00:29 sapier so adding slipery somehow results in needing inertion ... needing medium resistance (different in water then in air ;-) ) 00:29 est31 i know what an inertial system is, but inertion... 00:29 cmdskp that way you can prevent big entities from slipping at all, if desired and perform a more thorough check inside the entity onstep 00:29 sapier sounds like a feasable workaround ... maybe not even enable slipery for those by default 00:31 sapier but I still don't like it yet I'll try to show you issues it's up to you and those who like the feature to evaluate how important those issues are 00:31 cmdskp that's possible, there's no real reason to have entities slide except for coolness and fun-factor to see thrown items slide across the ice =D That and expections I guess, if someone has set ice to slip and entities don't by default would seem incongruous :) 00:31 est31 yeah collision box calculations are a place where areastores can profit as well 00:32 cmdskp I'm afriad I must initiate my sleep cycle, but thank you for an interesting discussion. Food for thought :) 00:32 sapier well I'd wanted a "on_collision" entity callback for some time guess I'm the only one who sees use for it 00:33 cmdskp I was wanting that too for handling momentum on carts 00:33 sapier I guess I have to fix the facedir rotation limit once again ... seems like it always rotates to same direction even if rotation to different direction would be way less change :-/ 00:34 * cmdskp exits to sleep cycle :) 00:35 est31 real programmers don't count sheep, they count nops xD 00:35 sapier I hate nop slides 00:37 est31 just use custom microcode for your platform, and patch your compiler 00:38 sapier I've got enough work on working around cpu bugs ... hate to do this .. fixing hardware bugs in software .... 00:39 sapier https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3454/commits what about merging the non irrlicht updates till irrlicht fixes it's issues? 00:40 est31 sapier, you do embedded stuff, being one of the few devs who use that piece of hw? 00:41 sapier for what I know I'm one of about 3 ppl using that particular part of the asic yes 00:42 sapier well that part is used in other asics too ... yet in different revisions 00:42 sapier but hw bugs seem to be usually added to each new version instead of being fixed 00:44 est31 lol 00:44 est31 sapier, fine with me merge the commits 00:44 est31 but note there is more recent curl version out 00:44 est31 ermm sorry 00:44 est31 its most recent 00:44 est31 openssl too 00:45 sapier I'll check once again ... well it's updating quite some libs not surprising its outdated after some weeks 00:46 sapier but android build server has to be updated using gcc 4.9 fails on old version used there 00:46 est31 yeah suprised to see there still was potential to update 00:46 est31 after all, I'd pushed a similar commit not a long time ago 00:46 sapier I'd wanted to update irrlicht but obviously current dev version has major issues 00:47 est31 2f58e4d9624b4f31c5064dc640e0ad40d8adb9ea 00:48 sapier was there any reason for not using gmp in openssl? 00:49 est31 no 00:49 est31 i just didnt thought of it 00:50 est31 I mostly needed it for other things 00:50 est31 like, cryptography when logging in 00:54 sapier I don't see a more recent openssl version then 1.0.1e 00:58 sapier 1.0.2e of course 01:30 gregorycu Did c55 do his farblock stuff? 01:34 gregorycu Or farmap, whatever it is called 01:54 VanessaE gregorycu: he has yet to merge it 01:54 gregorycu Thanks 01:54 VanessaE but there is a fork you can play with. 01:54 VanessaE https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/tree/far_map_wip 01:56 gregorycu How's it look? 02:04 VanessaE https://daconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/screenshots/random/Screenshot_2015-11-13_13-03-08.png 02:04 VanessaE https://daconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/screenshots/random/Screenshot_2015-11-13_12-59-47.png 02:04 VanessaE it looks like that. :) 02:04 VanessaE in my GPU I can see "terrain" 1 km into the distance, and still with respectable framerates. 02:05 VanessaE those ^^^ screenshots I think have the farmap limit set to around 500m 02:08 gregorycu lol png 02:09 gregorycu Interesting stuff 02:11 VanessaE why wouldn't I use PNG for a screenshot? :) 02:11 VanessaE celeron55: ^^^^ 02:18 gregorycu PNGs are lossless, but large size for things like screenshots 02:19 VanessaE yeah I know 02:19 VanessaE but where it comes to screenshots, pixel-accuracy is important to me :) 02:30 gregorycu Yeppers 02:57 gregorycu Who else does windows dev here? 03:28 gregorycu sofar 03:29 sofar nooooo 03:30 gregorycu Too bad 03:30 gregorycu Found you 03:30 gregorycu So, you've been looking at my PR that "optimises" spreadLight 03:31 gregorycu https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3331#issuecomment-167665040 03:31 sofar well, just a casual look. 03:31 gregorycu Yep 03:31 gregorycu Are you able to indicate exactly how you timed spreadLight 03:32 gregorycu TimeTaker was used, as you said 03:32 sofar there's a commented out TimeTaker, that's all I did 03:32 gregorycu I want to make sure I have the same setup as you, to give me the best chance at your results 03:32 sofar I honestly don't even know if that's the right way 03:33 gregorycu Cool, thank you 03:34 gregorycu Hopefully I can speak with paramat too 03:35 sofar map.cpp: //TimeTaker timer("spreadLight"); 03:35 sofar map.cpp- vmanip.spreadLight(bank, light_sources, nodemgr); 03:36 sofar that one 03:36 sofar hey, question for you windowzy person 03:36 sofar why does minetest go nomnoms on system ram and occupy 3gb or memory? 03:37 gregorycu It shouldn't 03:38 sofar perhaps I should update 03:38 sofar resolution is 2560x1600, maybe that matters? 03:38 sofar nvidia hw? 03:38 gregorycu I wouldn't think so, to be honest 03:38 gregorycu ATI 03:39 gregorycu vmanip.spreadLight(bank, light_sources, nodemgr); 03:39 gregorycu That's behind an #if 0 03:40 gregorycu You mean line 831? 03:40 sofar I believe that the macro works out that if you uncomment it, it does an extra recalc pass and times that 03:40 gregorycu etc 03:40 sofar #826-828 yes 03:44 gregorycu Where does info stream get printed? 03:54 cheapie This "AreaStore" thing looks cool, but I can't find any obvious way to save/load them to/from disk. Is that even possible? 04:30 gregorycu For me spreadLight is called non-stop 04:30 est31 cheapie, it isn't possible as of now, but this PR will enable it: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3309 04:31 cheapie est31: OK. 04:31 est31 cheapie, so you'll have to use a table and insert/remove from it while operating on the areastore 04:31 est31 & then save that table 04:33 est31 gregorycu, its printed nowhere 04:33 est31 gregorycu, execute minetest with the --info param 04:33 gregorycu I added the info switch 04:33 gregorycu yeah 04:44 gregorycu sofar, for me spreadLight is getting called like 100 times a second for no obvious reason 04:44 gregorycu Did you experience this? 04:50 sofar gregorycu: nope 06:52 gregorycu Does anyone know paramat's time zone? 06:53 gregorycu That dude and I have unfinshed business 06:55 asl97 gregorycu: unless paramat has given false information, just check his/her github profile page: https://github.com/paramat 06:56 gregorycu UK, which is 11 hours behind me... 7am 06:56 gregorycu Thanks, i should fill out that info on my profile too 08:05 gregorycu In minetest parlance, what is a chunk? 08:07 gregorycu vs node vs block 08:08 hmmmmm a chunk is a make-believe cubic region of some mapchunks 08:08 hmmmmm mapblocks i mean 08:08 hmmmmm it's not an actual data structure 08:31 sofar http://i.imgur.com/Jvoeq7R.png 08:31 sofar ^^ completely client-side drawn connecting nodeboxes 08:31 sofar only a single nodedef 08:33 RealBadAngel that looks promising 08:33 RealBadAngel i could re-do my concrete posts with that 08:34 sofar yes 08:34 sofar plus mesecons wire 08:34 sofar that's probably the best user for it too 08:35 sofar although it'll break the current mesecons wire, since it connects diagonally 08:35 sofar this only connects 6 ways (up, down, n-e-w-s) 08:35 RealBadAngel it has to be done in all directions 08:35 RealBadAngel you know why its diagonally only? 08:36 sofar it's not only diagonally 08:36 RealBadAngel it has separate vertical one 08:36 sofar it's diagonally up 08:36 sofar right 08:36 sofar which is weird since it can also go vertical 08:36 RealBadAngel to get one climbing all possible walls, theres over 1k nodedefs needed 08:36 sofar but that's a different node 08:37 RealBadAngel ask nore, he made such code 08:37 RealBadAngel and thats only for just one type of wire 08:37 sofar well right now this code could be extended to allow specifying how to connect to a diagonally connected face 08:38 sofar but let me make this into a decent PR tomorrow so people have something to test 08:38 RealBadAngel such code is aviable in redpower2 clone, its open source 08:38 sofar I also have a simple "wall" mod to go with it 08:38 RealBadAngel i mean connection rules 08:39 RealBadAngel its called redproject i think 08:39 sofar I gotta hit the hay first. Will put make-up and a dress on this code tomorrow so people can ogle it 08:40 sofar actually, I should convert fences to this code as well 08:40 sofar so that people see that it's relatively flexible 08:40 RealBadAngel indeed 08:40 RealBadAngel that has to be generic 08:41 sofar http://i.imgur.com/SBURS20.png 08:41 RealBadAngel have you checked my posts? 08:41 RealBadAngel from technic modpack 08:43 gregorycu Thanks hmmmmm 08:43 sofar I didn't... I'm fedup with people saying "look at my code" and it's gplv3 ... so I can't merge it back 08:44 RealBadAngel https://github.com/minetest-technic/technic/tree/master/concrete 08:44 sofar it's not rocket science, just reimplement it 08:44 RealBadAngel my code is usually wtfpl ;) 08:44 sofar yeah you're not crazy, like some people maintaining hostile forks 08:45 RealBadAngel technic is actually lgpl v2 08:45 sofar and then claiming I plagiarize them with 6 lines of fucking trivial code 08:45 RealBadAngel yeah i seen that 08:45 sofar YOU KNOW WHAT GRINDS MY GEARS? 08:45 sofar ;^) 08:46 sofar it makes more more angry since he knows other people can't merge it back, but meanwhile he himself pushes code around from and to various gpl trees 08:46 sofar and it's not helping anyone 08:50 RealBadAngel folks doing that are acting like real dicks 08:51 RealBadAngel i dont like such attitude 08:57 sofar ok 08:57 sofar ONE more screenshot 08:57 sofar then I go to bed 08:57 sofar http://i.imgur.com/lNECgTt.png 08:57 sofar tadaa, new fences using this method 08:58 sofar textures used was jungletree and tree (custom texture pack) 08:58 RealBadAngel can i see lua code for that fence? 10:31 OldCoder Is it a known bug that for 0.4.12 clients everything disappears at around 23250 in any direction? 10:31 OldCoder As opposed to 32000 11:02 gregorycu lol 11:30 red-001 do I need to add a description of a new privilege some where in the documentation? 11:57 nrzkt red-001, yes 12:03 red-001 where? 12:04 red-001 as in I defined it 12:04 red-001 where to document it? 12:19 yyt16384 Should RemoteClient::SetBlockNotSent and RemoteClient::SetBlocksNotSent set m_nothing_to_send_pause_timer to 0? 12:19 yyt16384 It will not be in a "nothing to send" state after marking the block as not sent. 12:20 yyt16384 This seems to cause modified blocks be sent only every 2 seconds 12:44 celeron55 yyt16384: why is there such a race to modify that part of the codebase now that i have a stalled branch with big rework on it 12:45 celeron55 can someone take far_map_wip and remove the far map stuff from it and merge it upstream instead of fixing the current code that is vastly inerior? 12:46 celeron55 inferior* 12:46 celeron55 it has a reworked map sending implementation that i developed along with the far map stuff 12:49 gregorycu Sorry bro 12:49 gregorycu Everyone converges on the stuff that needs the most work? 12:51 celeron55 i guess so but it's not good 12:51 celeron55 most work will end up being lost 12:51 gregorycu Agreed 12:52 gregorycu How do we avoid this problem 12:53 celeron55 given the circumstances, probably in no way 12:54 gregorycu it's better than nobody wanting to do any work :) 12:54 gregorycu Now where the hell is paramat 12:55 celeron55 i'm now considering trying to rip apart the map sending stuff and the farmap stuff in my branch 12:55 celeron55 this is going to take days i guess but maybe it is worth it 12:55 gregorycu I heard the farmap stuff is pretty good 12:56 celeron55 it can't be done by picking commits; i need to first pick commits, then squash everything that can't be separated based on commits and then edit and delete files until there aren't any unwanted changes left 12:56 gregorycu Hopefully your git-fu is better than mine 12:57 celeron55 the farmap stuff is technically fine but it needs vast usability improvements 12:58 celeron55 like removing the viewing range auto-adjust and changing the configuration UI to make it reasonable to adjust by users, and figuring out sane defaults 12:58 celeron55 lots of work 12:58 celeron55 i'm not sure how to get that work done though 12:58 gregorycu Whats wrong with the autoadjust? 12:59 celeron55 it won't be able to work properly 12:59 gregorycu Won't the far map just "fill in the blanks"? 12:59 celeron55 it can't know how the user wants to balance the far and short ranges 13:00 gregorycu Ahh, I see what you mean 13:00 celeron55 and fps 13:00 gregorycu The two extremes are seeing very far with farmap, or short distance with very little farmap 13:00 gregorycu seeing very far with lots of farmap * 13:01 gregorycu You could just make it a static % 13:01 celeron55 also different computers can render different amounts with the two styles; they don't perform equally related to each other 13:01 celeron55 also farmap takes way more memory 13:01 gregorycu Is that something you can detect? Available memory? 13:02 celeron55 not in a useful way 13:02 celeron55 this was discussed previously with hmmmm 13:02 celeron55 i have already decided this, you can't say anything that would change my mind about the auto-adjust 13:02 gregorycu I don't even have a position on auto-adjust 13:03 celeron55 i made the auto-adjust and i know what it's capable of; it's not capable of this 13:03 gregorycu I was asking what was wrong with it 13:03 celeron55 a thing that also messes up the auto-adjust is that with the map sending changes, the map sending is controlled by the client's view range 13:03 celeron55 not by server's configuration 13:04 celeron55 so then you're controlling both the network and the rendering 13:04 celeron55 based on rendering 13:05 gregorycu I have idea, but you've probably thought of them, so no point speaking them 13:05 celeron55 even now without any of the changes, i think most people want to get rid of the auto-adjust and don't use it at all 13:06 celeron55 personally i certainly don't use it 13:06 gregorycu Doesn't it currently have problems (without your changes?) 13:06 gregorycu Where it see-saws or something 13:08 celeron55 sometimes you hear people complaining about it 13:08 celeron55 i believe it is tuned as well as it can be; if you made it less bouncy, then it would be too slow in other scenarios 13:09 celeron55 and the algorithm itself is as good as i could make it; i certainly won't attempt to make it more clever 13:09 gregorycu I think the issue is that when it increases the range, the first frame updates draw lists etc. which causes the frame rate to take a hit 13:10 gregorycu I was looking at it some time ago, I can't remember 13:10 celeron55 sounds plausible 13:11 celeron55 anyway 13:11 gregorycu I think a more "clever" solution would be to exclude that processing from calculating the current frame rate (because it's a one-off) 13:11 gregorycu But probably not worth it 13:12 celeron55 the way i personally want to control my far map range is in such a way that it is static no matter what happens, and the way i then want to control my normal rendering range is that it is static too, because increasing it for the sake of seeing farther makes no sense when the far map is already doing it 13:13 celeron55 the point of the auto-adjust is to increase the range when the rendering performance allows for it on an empty terrain or a tower or something 13:13 celeron55 that point doesn't exist then anymore 13:13 gregorycu There is another point though 13:14 gregorycu That's when you start to see farmap vs real rendering 13:14 gregorycu another = new 13:14 celeron55 yes, but it's nicer to have more fps than have that point move around 13:16 gregorycu I think different people would want different things (not saying it's worthwhile complicating everything to satisfy everyone) 13:16 gregorycu (Some people use auto-adjust, some do not) 13:17 celeron55 have you tried the far_map_wip branch? 13:17 gregorycu I haven't 13:17 celeron55 it's much easier to think about what people might think about this issue when you have first-hand experience of it 13:18 celeron55 it's more different than you think 13:18 celeron55 (likely) 13:18 gregorycu Yeah, I'll try it soon 13:18 celeron55 (if it's not, then that is useful information too; but you don't know until you try) 13:19 gregorycu I want to get this perf shit sorted with paramat 13:20 gregorycu And I need to consider getting a linux vm happening so I can do these tests myself 13:22 gregorycu I think he did his perf tests with a 121^3 chunk which was not something I considered when optimising code 13:22 celeron55 if others in the core team think that far map with related rework and fixes should be merged with the farmap defaulting to being disabled, i could do that 13:25 gregorycu Seems like a good stepping stone 13:25 celeron55 or, well, i guess even in an enabled form 14:28 gregorycu "i modified one of my mapgen mods to use the non-mapgen object voxelmanip, which uses 'update map' for lighting calculation, which calls 'updateLighting' which calls 'spreadLight'. I made only 1 mapchunk be generated and this mapchunk is identical in each run. Here 'spreadLight' is acting on a 112^3 node volume" 14:28 gregorycu Anyone know what this means? He made a 112^3 "voxelmanip" 14:29 Krock a voxelmanipulator with those area specifications 14:29 Krock 112m in each direction 14:30 gregorycu A voxelmanip is an object to transactionally change the map right? 14:31 Krock yes, it gives you an array with all node IDs. you can change them if you like 14:32 Krock and when you're done, the complete piece gets written to the map 14:32 Krock vm:get_data() and vm:set_data(data) + vm:write_to_map() 14:33 gregorycu So he wrong a 112^ chunk of map, which caused updateLighting to be called on that chunk 14:33 gregorycu Cool, I'll give that a try 14:33 gregorycu s/wrong/wrote/ 14:34 Krock oh, that's done with vm:calc_lighting(p1, p2 14:36 gregorycu Do people actually update 112^3 chunks in practice? 14:36 Krock that's a huge amount of nodes, so I doubt that happens frequently 14:37 Krock but there are such operations to fix the bugged light 14:37 celeron55 the map generator uses chunks of roughly that size 14:38 celeron55 not sure what exactly, but that's not very far off 14:38 red-001 what causes the light bugs? 14:38 gregorycu ok 14:39 Krock usually 16*5 in each dimension 14:39 Krock sometimes more.. dunno why 14:39 gregorycu Then the lighting code needs to be able to handle 112^3 nicely 14:40 gregorycu I'm not sure what causes the light bugs 14:40 gregorycu Maybe trees? 14:44 red-001 https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/602 14:44 red-001 https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/667 14:51 rubenwardy #602 14:52 red-001 can someone take a look at it 14:52 red-001 ? 14:56 gregorycu Must only be called in a mapgen thread... 14:57 gregorycu do 14:57 gregorycu h 14:57 Krock game#602 14:57 Krock ShadowBot! 14:58 gregorycu Classic shadow bot 14:58 red-001 https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/602 14:59 red-001 something tells my I will wait a long time for this to be merged 14:59 red-001 me* 14:59 gregorycu Well, brand new concepts generally do 15:00 gregorycu take a long time, that is 15:00 red-001 no that has write access even commented on it 15:02 gregorycu It's the holiday season, people are on holidays/busy 15:03 red-001 yeah I guess your right 15:03 red-001 I made the pr in summer through 15:03 gregorycu This is where github is alittle weak 15:04 gregorycu Usually before any work is done, people would discuss the concept, come to agreement 15:04 gregorycu Then somebody would go off and code it to spec 15:04 gregorycu PRs only become code style / form reviews 15:04 gregorycu Not a discussion about a feature and how it should work 15:05 red-001 also If someone gets a chance take a look at https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/667 15:20 rubenwardy Reviewed both, red-001 15:20 red-001 thanks 15:46 sofar http://i.imgur.com/zaJq8jo.png 15:46 est31 can sb have a look at https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3434 15:47 est31 we _really_ have to do a pr merging session where we merge trivial PRs like this 15:47 est31 otherwise contributor after contributor gets annoyed. 16:39 sofar https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3503 21:00 red-001 could the old settings tab be returned? 21:00 red-001 The new one is quite confusing 21:01 red-001 It could be used as an advance settings tab 21:03 Gael-de-Sailly some people have proposed it on october but nothing has changed 21:06 Gael-de-Sailly https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=195208#p195208 21:09 red-001 well I might as well open a PR for this 21:09 red-001 as nothing is being do 21:10 Gael-de-Sailly pilzadam said that it will be done 21:10 red-001 ok 21:10 Gael-de-Sailly but it was on october 21:10 red-001 well he probably forgot 21:11 red-001 I doubt It will that this long to add back something so trivial 21:12 Gael-de-Sailly because that's not the priority for the devs 21:12 red-001 well a unusable user interface is a thing that can destroy any game 21:13 red-001 or engine 21:13 Gael-de-Sailly yes, I've said it many times, the "user-friendly" side is very important 21:15 red-001 good old minetest once doesn't merge PR because a setting in minetest.conf is not user friendly 21:15 red-001 and sometimes this happens 21:15 gravgun "user-friendly": term not found in coredevs/vocabulary.txt 21:15 gravgun :P 21:15 Gael-de-Sailly well said 21:15 red-001 user-friendly = nil 21:16 red-001 Is this used on android too? 21:16 red-001 or does android have it's own ui 21:16 gravgun "Remembering PR": term found in coredevs/vocabulary_ignore.txt, ignored 21:17 red-001 :) 21:17 Gael-de-Sailly they think to many things at the same time 21:17 red-001 they think -1 things 21:17 Gael-de-Sailly so they forgot the "less important" ones 21:17 asl97 imo, there wasn't much reason why they can't just include both the overridable function and setting, user could already change the game themselve 21:17 Gael-de-Sailly and generally the "user-friendly" is less important 21:18 Gael-de-Sailly that's the problem 21:21 Gael-de-Sailly the advanced settings it was my idea at the beginning, but it has been done the wrong way 21:21 Gael-de-Sailly The old interface has been removed 21:21 red-001 well it OK for an advance settings tab 21:22 red-001 I wonder what is it with open source projects and complicated settings 21:22 Gael-de-Sailly There should be both tabs with a BUTTON to SWITCH 21:22 red-001 or just two tabs 21:23 red-001 'settings' and 'advance settings' 21:23 Gael-de-Sailly no, you keep the old interface, and add an "advanced settings" button 21:23 red-001 yeah thats what I meant 21:24 red-001 something like this http://postimg.org/image/spj5akqml/ 21:24 red-001 which PR megerd this? 21:24 Gael-de-Sailly yes, that's good too 21:25 Gael-de-Sailly merged what? 21:25 Gael-de-Sailly the new settings? 21:26 red-001 yes 21:26 Gael-de-Sailly iirc that was a commit from PilzAdam 21:26 red-001 nvm found it 21:26 * Gael-de-Sailly is checking... 21:26 red-001 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/6f2d9de7691c99b833f71c1414230c5d04c42ae0 21:27 Gael-de-Sailly I have this one: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/006ef5b4a5e362eed848ca26b411a8059d74b965 21:28 red-001 thanks 21:28 red-001 that seems to be it 21:33 red-001 imo it's time android gets it's own ui 21:35 kaadmy red-001: yes 21:36 Gael-de-Sailly good bye 22:02 red-001 wow 22:03 red-001 an no existing game set as menu_last_game cause minetest to crash 22:04 sapier I've got a quite ugly question: Is minetest really reading mesh from harddrive and loading to irrlicht EVERYTIME any property of an entitie does change? 22:05 * red-001 doesn't know 22:07 red-001 Is that as bad as it sounds? 22:07 celeron55 i'd guess the client doesn't save or load meshes from the hard drive at any other point than the initial cache synchronization 22:07 celeron55 it might re-parse them though 22:08 sapier as irrlicht output isn't cought I'm quite sure at least reparsing is done 22:09 sapier hopefully not reading from disk but as filename is passed to irrlicht I assume that's at best operating systems task 22:09 celeron55 the re-parsing is a workaround due to irrlicht not being able to make copies of a mesh for setting different vertex colors 22:10 sapier argh 22:10 celeron55 the filename is probably just due to irrlicht's weird interface which requires filenames for virtual files 22:10 sapier hmm could be yes 22:10 sapier well I've other issues to fix atm but flooding console with irrlicht messages ain't very good too 22:11 sapier most strange thing is it seems to only happen if you're in mainmenu on a server 22:12 sapier so I'm not even sure it's related to setting properties 22:15 celeron55 i don't see how the entity mesh creation thing would even be triggered from setting properties 22:15 kaadmy sapier: i think it does, but i dunno 22:15 celeron55 it runs once when an entity is created on the client, and never again for the same entity 22:16 sapier mesh is a property you can change it on an existing one too so there has to be some way to do it. Yet I'm not sure if it's really set properties as somehow "pause menu" is involved 22:17 sapier well not exactly "pause" as in multiplayer it ain't pause 22:17 OldCoder Interesting bug came up last night. Tried 0.4.11 and 12, -O2 and -O3, gcc 4.6.3 and 4.9.3, different glibc releases, different Irrlichts 22:17 OldCoder Same issue almost exactly for all combinations. Screen goes blank at exactly a uniform distance from the origin. 22:18 OldCoder When I switched glibc's, the distance changed slightly. It is exact for each test down to 0.1. 22:18 OldCoder In the neighborhood of 23300 or 23253 depending 22:19 OldCoder Has anything like this been observed or reported in recent years? 22:19 celeron55 wait, what 22:19 OldCoder Interesting part is that every changeable component has been changed 22:19 OldCoder Hm? Which part is unclear? 22:19 celeron55 actually yes, the mesh is re-created and the scene node is fully re-created when any property changes 22:19 OldCoder celeron55, are you addressing sapier or me? 22:20 OldCoder Ah, Sapier 22:20 OldCoder Has anybody ever heard of the issue I've described? 22:21 sapier guess I'll have to take care not to write identical settings too often :-( 22:21 celeron55 and that happens because in handling of GENERIC_CMD_SET_PROPERTIES, expireVisuals() is always called 22:21 celeron55 and if the visuals are set expired, the entire scene node is re-created from scratch 22:22 sapier maybe we should only do this if any of the visible properties changes 22:22 celeron55 well... obviously so 22:23 red-001 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3504 22:23 celeron55 i bet the next bug related to that is going to be a new visual property added after this to which somebody forgets to add the expiration trigger and it gets desynced 22:24 celeron55 unless you come up with a good way of avoiding that 22:25 sapier true that's almost sure gonna happen 22:27 sapier "best" way would be separating visible properties from non visible ones ... but as this can't be done in a compatible way it's no go 22:28 celeron55 OldCoder: how do you go to that distance? if this can't be reproduced (i certainly can't; tried it now), it's not fixable 22:28 celeron55 i tried teleporting in a test world to around 23whatever in some steps and at no point did it go blank 22:28 celeron55 except when i accidentally teleported inside a mountain 22:28 OldCoder I know, celeron55, will work on reproducing. I TP to 22500 and walk the rest of the way 22:29 OldCoder The interesting part is that I've changed *everything* even several years worth of glibc 22:29 OldCoder Not sure what else could be changed: Different optimization, different Irrlicht, different compiler, 2 years worth of MT... 22:29 * OldCoder figured it was an incompatibility with glibc -lm 22:30 OldCoder But it happens with both old and new glibc 22:30 OldCoder Wanted to ask if a limit below 32000 had ever been observed 22:30 * OldCoder takes it the answer is no 22:30 celeron55 tried flying; doesn't happen 22:31 OldCoder Thank you. So, limits below 32000 have not been observed? 22:32 OldCoder I mean, in past bugs? 22:32 OldCoder That is the only question for right now 22:35 celeron55 i have not heard of such 22:35 OldCoder O.K. Thanks. I'll comment further if specifics are identified. 22:35 celeron55 and i can't imagine what could cause it; it's probably something very weird 22:35 OldCoder Yes; hence the description as interesting 22:35 celeron55 are you running 32-bit or 64-bit? 22:36 OldCoder 32 bit 22:36 celeron55 okay, that could explain something 22:36 OldCoder Do most people do 64 these days? 22:36 OldCoder Oh? Tips on directions to look in? 22:36 celeron55 well, practically everyone, including me 22:36 OldCoder So if I find somebody else with 32 bits 22:36 OldCoder And they observe the issue, I have a clue 22:36 OldCoder O.K. That is something to try. Will comment further at a later date. Thank you. 22:37 celeron55 i would do that first, and then go from there 22:37 OldCoder o/ 22:37 red-001 how do you set minetest to compile in x64 22:37 red-001 I have 64 bit winodows 22:38 red-001 but minetest compiles in 32 bits 22:38 sapier just flew from 22500 to 24500 no darkening for me too 22:38 celeron55 red-001: on linux it compiles to whatever the system is; on windows you'll have to ask from someone who has made 64-bit builds because nobody else probably has any idea 22:38 OldCoder sapier, thank you! 22:39 OldCoder Will find others who have 32-bit OSes and see if this is an issue 22:39 OldCoder Most possible explanations are ruled out, so need to check this one 22:39 red-001 OldCoder 22:39 red-001 I have 32 bit minetest 22:39 OldCoder red-001, But a 64 bit machine 22:39 OldCoder and OS, right? 22:39 red-001 yes 22:39 celeron55 i'm booting up my 32bit laptop now 22:39 OldCoder Well, thanks; it's a long-shot 22:40 red-001 maybe it's just a bug with 32 bit minetest 22:40 * OldCoder is betting on a glibc math library issue 22:40 OldCoder I should have noticed it years ago but never spent much time on the boundaries 22:41 kaadmy i have a 32 bit OS and MT 22:41 OldCoder Would not have mentioned it here yet but was bemused by the fact that changing MT releases, compilers, Irrlicht releases, optimizations.. 22:41 OldCoder kaadmy, could you try this? fly to 23000,100,0 22:41 OldCoder then from there to 24000 22:41 kaadmy ok 22:41 OldCoder ty 22:42 OldCoder BTW encountered this because we're proceeding with stacked realms 22:42 red-001 I made a PR to add back the old settings tab https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3504 22:42 OldCoder Lots of fun possibilities there 22:43 kaadmy wonder if the bug happens on mobile? 22:43 kaadmy checking 22:43 celeron55 i am not seeing the issue on this; keep in mind that this is not an upstream build but instead contains some of my farmap work-in-progress stuff; however i don't think it should have an effect 22:43 OldCoder There is no evidence yet it happens for anybody but me 22:43 OldCoder I thank people for commenting. I will try it under Windows on the same machine 22:44 OldCoder and see just how machine or OS specific it is. If nobody else can reproduce it, it can't be fixed... 22:44 celeron55 (that was 32-bit debian 7 or something like that) 22:44 OldCoder But I trust people agree it is interesting. Time again was appreciated. Talk to you later. celeron55 I will try Windows on the same hardware. Then the same Linux on different hardware. 22:44 * OldCoder is systematic :-) 22:44 OldCoder Ttyl 22:45 red-001 I'm running a debug build of minetest and I'm getting some strange crashes 22:45 OldCoder Crashes happen 22:45 OldCoder Zzz <- napping ttyl 22:45 red-001 when I try to start a singleplayer game 22:46 red-001 http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=69600612174384718924 22:46 red-001 link to the dump 22:46 kaadmy OldCoder: tried on mobile, doesn't have any problems 22:49 kaadmy what version of mt causes those problems oldcoder? 22:50 OldCoder kaadmy, PM; there is insufficient evidence for group discussion. But all versions. I will research and report evidence if such turns up. 22:50 * OldCoder can narrow it down to either the hardware or the OS and will do so 23:20 cmdskp @sapier: I found today that entities aren't affected by slippery(only players) and items needed some work from the original PR (which I hadn't included the lua for handling items). I think it's best to leave other entities to handle slipping themselves, but support for built-in items to support slippery when used by mods on nodes would seem reasonable? 23:21 cmdskp so entities will remain unaffected 23:21 sapier aren't items just entities? 23:21 red-001 and mobs 23:21 red-001 i think 23:22 cmdskp it appears, items are handled with a specific section in the lua code inside the builtin folder 23:22 cmdskp which handles stopping them when you throw them away 23:23 cmdskp that's the bit that slippery adds to, if its set on a node 23:23 cmdskp the specific file is: builtin\game\item_entity.lua :) 23:25 cmdskp though, as I say, I didn't include this with my merge, I spotted it in the original PR and fixed it today to respect an amount of slip or stop, as by default 23:25 cmdskp had visitors round ^_^ so haven't had much time 23:28 sapier is there any way lua code runs in parallel in current minetest? 23:29 VanessaE sapier: not as yet. 23:29 VanessaE except for that async stuff once used in the main menu I think 23:29 sapier strange because I see a bug which could be explained best by some undesired concurrency 23:31 sapier considering minetest crashes completely I'd not surprised if there is something unwanted in it 23:35 sapier wow :-) that's curious 23:36 sapier best explanation I've got is lua garbage collector is removing a function deleted from a table while it's still in use 23:37 cmdskp now that's a little bit serious, to say the least! 23:38 VanessaE heh 23:38 sapier I have to think more about this that'd be way to bad to not being discovered by now 23:38 sapier yet there's a bug in minetest too I don't get a callstack in gui just a grey screen 23:40 cmdskp Could anyone recommend a nice Lua editor/syntax checker (preferably for Windows)? 23:40 red-001 notepad c++ is nice 23:41 red-001 not really a lua editor 23:41 kaadmy https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/ 23:41 sapier eclipse ldt ... there's even debugger support ... but there's some regression in latest version (at least on linux) but eclipse usually is way less stable on limux 23:41 sapier linux 23:41 Calinou http://atom.io :) 23:41 red-001 kaadmy you mean echo? 23:41 Calinou there's a Lua linter available as a package 23:42 cmdskp "else if" catches me way too often with a complete crash out... =) I'd forgotten about Eclipse IDE having Lua support potential! 23:42 red-001 https://notepad-plus-plus.org/ 23:42 cmdskp ty 23:42 sapier well eclipse is a little bit overkill true but if you're doing c++ like me you're used to it anyway 23:43 red-001 or vs 23:43 red-001 Visual studio 23:43 sapier well for vs you need to have an microsoft account 23:43 sapier but if you've got win10 you probably have one anyway 23:43 sapier including security copy of your hard drive crypto key at nsa servers :-) 23:44 Calinou you can use Windows 10 with local account 23:44 cmdskp atom's interesting looking - net heard of it before. But I'm fairly comfortable to Eclipse too for Java - choices choice! :D I do like smaller editors for scripting...I'll try each! 23:44 red-001 It's not exactly hard to make a Microsoft account 23:44 cmdskp I'm currently using Visual Studio for Minetest compiling 23:44 sapier Calinou: you can use android without google account too :-) 23:44 Calinou Atom suits any language really 23:44 kaadmy trying atom right now ;) 23:44 Calinou it shines in Web development, but can do C++, Java, Lua, Rust… just fine 23:44 Calinou it's a bit slow to load, and uses quite a bit of RAM, you are warned 23:44 sapier imho win10 is for pc what android is for mobiles 23:44 kaadmy and i have yet to try using Rust 23:44 Calinou but if you edit files < 100 KB, speed should be good 23:45 Calinou sapier, Windows 10 is pretty usable with local account, unlike Android 23:45 kaadmy but imo terminal-based text editors are the best 23:45 cmdskp awe, shame Atom is for Win7 and later - I have Win7 but my video drivers are not very stable compared to XP (ironic that! =D) 23:45 Calinou there is Slap for the command-line: https://github.com/slap-editor/slap 23:46 red-001 cmdskp 23:46 red-001 notepad++ runs in xp iirc 23:46 gregorycu paramat 23:46 gregorycu So good to see you 23:46 cmdskp does it offer syntax checking? Not just colouring? 23:46 red-001 hi paramat 23:46 gregorycu He's mine, leave him alone 23:46 cmdskp I would like to catch some of my little idiosyncracies when switching from C++ to Lua =D 23:47 red-001 what do you mean? 23:47 Calinou no, out of the box, Notepad++ does only colouring 23:47 Calinou I doubt there's a plugin for Lua linting 23:47 paramat Fixer, yes permanent fire has no sound that's intentional 23:47 red-001 https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/667 23:47 red-001 https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/602 23:47 paramat heh 23:47 Fixer paramat, ok 23:47 kaadmy cmdskp: just build from source, that might work. 23:48 kaadmy does anybody here play DooM? 23:49 Calinou try the non-dev channel, kaadmy 23:49 Calinou you're in -dev :p 23:49 sapier Calinou: I use android without google account ;-) But once I did look at adb debug output what this os does even do without account ... terrible ... windows doesn't even provide a way to see it :-) 23:49 paramat apologies to all, mtgame devs are very elusive at the moment, and i am super busy 23:52 gregorycu cmdskp: Why did you branch from my repo, out of interest, as opposed to the master branch 23:52 paramat will merge https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3499 'Minimal: Add mapgen alias for air' in a moment 23:53 cmdskp gregorycu: I'm not sure what pulled my interest - but I had troubles after trying to branch to the original Minetest github, the site seemed to keep redirecting me to the fork I had made from yours. 23:54 gregorycu Interesting 23:54 cmdskp I'm sure it was something I had found a couple weeks ago from a mod in the forum or perhaps via google's results 23:54 cmdskp I'm afraid I'm new to github's wonders 23:54 gregorycu Me too 23:54 gregorycu And lua 23:54 paramat now merging 3499 23:54 gregorycu Well, somewhat new 23:56 cmdskp Lua's interesting, I do question some of the language design, but I think it's quite useful for teaching with, esp. inside Minetest 23:57 red-001 github for windows is just pain awful 23:57 gregorycu I prefer python 23:57 cmdskp python's not something I've used in earnest yet 23:58 paramat merged 23:58 cmdskp I'm more a Java/C++(and way long ago, Assembly Language) guy ^_^ But I have a fond spot for BASICs and Lua reminds me of them a bit. 23:58 gregorycu Java lol 23:58 gregorycu I'm proficient in C++, C#, and python 23:59 Calinou Python would not be suitable for a game like Minetest, where the KISS principle is still quite important 23:59 paramat will merge game 763 in a moment 'Default: Add mapgen alias for air' again