Time Nick Message 02:03 sofar where is the default plantlike mesh defined? 04:18 hmmmm content_mapblock.cpp line 1109 06:26 sofar hm, now I have to figure out what an S3DVertex is :) 07:03 sofar hmmmm: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1589 07:58 sofar I think we can make especially grass look a lot better. Even if this could be done just for default:grass_*, it would be a major visual improvement 09:42 RealBadAngel sofar, here? 10:23 kilbith paramat, look what i found : https://lut.im/ePUpE4a7Y9/KCu0cNmnHLnBOTvm.png 10:37 RealBadAngel acaccia zipped? ;) 11:08 nrzkt kilbith, great 11:09 Hunterz it is monument of aliens 11:20 kilbith "monument of aliens" is a good excuse for all mapgen craps... 11:34 Hunterz hehe 13:45 Taoki RealBadAngel: Any updated news on minimap and realtime lighting BTW, now with holidays approaching and all? Not expecting things to happen overnight of course, just curious if you have any plans expected on a timelmine :) 13:45 RealBadAngel rather not any soon, those are things i cant handle alone 13:46 RealBadAngel i keep asking for help when i see the wall but theres no response 13:46 RealBadAngel ive chosen to go back to the field i know good enough to be the only one there 13:47 RealBadAngel instead of sitting 2-3 weeks in front of rather trivial problem (but not in my area) i can code something else 13:48 RealBadAngel those who could help me chosen to sit and watch 13:54 RealBadAngel taoki, anyway, you will love next PR, thats a promise 13:55 RealBadAngel its gonna be kinda compilation of the few ideas that were here already 14:11 RealBadAngel https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3442 14:12 Taoki Awesome... can't wait :) 14:12 RealBadAngel can somebody give it one more +1 and merge it? 14:14 * Taoki hopes the speedup means there won't be FPS hiccups with relief mapping enabled any more. IIRC that was a problem in the past 14:15 RealBadAngel this should speed up relief mapping quite a bit 14:15 RealBadAngel theres less iterations 14:15 Taoki Awesomeness. 14:15 RealBadAngel not to mention end effect is way nicer 14:20 RealBadAngel https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3391 , any more comments on this PR? 14:22 RealBadAngel without 3391 in i cannot make PRs with liquid shaders (or any other ones) 14:25 RealBadAngel for 3391 i need more folks to test sample shaders... 14:28 Fixer any windows binaries? 14:34 RealBadAngel ask sfan5 14:35 RealBadAngel http://i.imgur.com/smyD4M8.png 14:35 RealBadAngel (playin with relief mapping to the max, checkin how far we can get now) 15:15 sofar RealBadAngel: was asleep... 15:27 RealBadAngel sofar, see my comnment on plants 15:31 sofar I saw 15:31 sofar mapgen should certainly do that 15:32 sofar but the offset random x,z works even better 16:39 RealBadAngel hmmmm, can you vote #3442? 16:41 RealBadAngel sofar, such modifications are very specific (i mean those you have proposed) while whats already in the engine is generic 16:45 est31 RealBadAngel, I've read through the pr to use binary search 16:45 est31 I now wonder: why make a linear search before the binary one? 16:45 RealBadAngel and? 16:45 est31 why not one single binary search? 16:45 est31 it would spare 12 more iterations 16:45 est31 or 11 16:46 RealBadAngel linear is to find something thats near a hit 16:46 RealBadAngel binary is to get to it as close as possible 16:47 RealBadAngel more linear steps you get better accuracy 16:47 est31 what precisely should the algorithm do 16:48 RealBadAngel find exact interesction eye ray and depth field at texture space 16:48 RealBadAngel but we dont need perfect one 16:48 RealBadAngel something close is enough 16:49 RealBadAngel do you want to read papers on it? 16:50 est31 yes 16:50 RealBadAngel hold on 16:52 RealBadAngel est31, ur email plz 16:53 est31 RealBadAngel, its in info tab in the client 16:54 est31 Credits tab* 16:54 RealBadAngel ok 16:55 est31 so I wonder, why not something like this instead? https://gist.github.com/anonymous/beed54f9e6d64c99e389 16:56 RealBadAngel sent 16:57 RealBadAngel code you highlighted will create 8 visible depth layers 16:58 RealBadAngel those could be eliminated with filtering 16:58 RealBadAngel but thats not the point, it will be fuzzy and setting dependent 16:59 RealBadAngel and will look just WRONG 16:59 est31 but the depth can have more than just 8 values 16:59 RealBadAngel yes 16:59 * est31 tries his code 16:59 est31 q 16:59 est31 wrong window lol 17:00 RealBadAngel you can divide it into lets say 256 17:00 RealBadAngel you will jamm your gpu 17:00 RealBadAngel wiser is to get close and look for most accurate one 17:02 RealBadAngel old code was using 25 steps (value picked from testing) 17:02 RealBadAngel new one has 16 + 6 steps 17:02 est31 no 17:02 RealBadAngel and is WAY more accurate 17:02 est31 it has 15 + 6 17:02 est31 not 16+6 17:04 RealBadAngel preli,inary step is not counted in, right 17:04 RealBadAngel but math is made for such steps 17:05 RealBadAngel thats why decrement is first thingy in the loop 17:08 RealBadAngel anyway, binary search eliminates visible displacement layers 17:09 RealBadAngel higher the scale of the effect, u notice it more 17:09 Fixer RealBadAngel, sfan5 does not have any win binaries with your shaders 17:10 RealBadAngel with the change you can try enormous scales and still get correct effect 17:10 est31 Fixer, you dont need to change any binaries 17:10 est31 Fixer, the shaders are not in the binary, but "in the open" 17:10 est31 just apply the patch manually 17:10 RealBadAngel est31, for last PR yes 17:11 RealBadAngel but i do have many waitin in line 17:11 RealBadAngel custom shaders patch is just happily hanging around :P 17:13 Fixer but it says Grab the branch with PR and compile: 17:13 Fixer https://github.com/RealBadAngel/minetest/tree/new_shaders 17:14 RealBadAngel Fixer, that branch need compiling, yeah 17:14 RealBadAngel relief mapping patch doesnt, since its altering only GLSL shaders code 17:14 est31 That's what I'm getting with your PR RBA http://pasteboard.co/2LXQwEXa.png 17:15 RealBadAngel est31, scale? 17:16 est31 RealBadAngel, what scale should I set? 17:16 RealBadAngel 0.08 is default 17:16 RealBadAngel make it 0.8 17:16 est31 is it "parallax occlusion scale"? 17:17 RealBadAngel yes 17:18 RealBadAngel its overall scale of the effect 17:18 est31 this is the scene with my "whole" binary search http://pasteboard.co/2LY66Cvq.png 17:19 RealBadAngel look at bricks edges 17:20 RealBadAngel you have fucked it up 17:20 est31 yeah 17:20 RealBadAngel you made layers 17:20 est31 you are right 17:20 est31 +1 to the pr 17:20 est31 can I merge it or do you want to change sth? 17:20 est31 also, the paper recommends to do linear search firt 17:20 RealBadAngel with your vote it has 2 17:20 est31 first 17:21 RealBadAngel i do 17:21 est31 yeah, therefore I can merge 17:21 RealBadAngel linear search is simple -0.1 17:21 est31 so, you want to change nothing anymore, I'll merge it then 17:21 RealBadAngel or whatever step 17:21 RealBadAngel funny name for just - 17:22 RealBadAngel no changes requsted 17:22 RealBadAngel its rdy 17:24 Fixer congrats 17:25 est31 merge 17:25 est31 d 17:26 est31 will push commit like this in 10 minutes https://github.com/est31/minetest/commit/e8053dd781b2c8da40fc8cf5c786947dbfaa3ff6 17:26 est31 copy paste mistake 17:27 Fixer can developers consider changing autorange view system? it is crappy :( 17:28 Fixer when you walk somewhere it constantly adjusts and trees or other objects in front off you show or dissapear all the time, it is noticable and annoying 17:45 * Fixer looks at http://dev.minetest.net/TODO 17:51 Fixer RealBadAngel, "RealBadAngel is currently working on shader-based lighting. " you are? 17:56 sofar RealBadAngel: if I can choose shaders for nodes in lua, can I use that to fix this: http://i.imgur.com/BgPdJ16.png - note the color/light difference between the two plants - same texture one is just a mesh node other plantlike 17:57 RealBadAngel Fixer, i do have hw lights workin, main problem is that irrlicht can have up to 8 light sources 17:58 RealBadAngel so we have to combine our system with irr 17:58 RealBadAngel mt has to prepare pure lightmap for the whole scene 17:58 RealBadAngel then irrlicht can lit it and combine 17:58 Fixer RealBadAngel, 8 light sources? I think that was forever and everywhere, or I'm wrong? 17:59 RealBadAngel in mt you can have each node in mapblock be the light source 17:59 RealBadAngel whole mt world is single irrlicht scene node 18:00 RealBadAngel so while its easy to do sun, its impossible to do torches 18:00 Fixer from stackoverflow "8 lights is the limitation of fixed GL pipeline, where you enable each of them, set mode, parameters, etc. Now you have pixel shaders, and lighting is done within shader. There you can use large number of dynamic (not backed into textures) lights. You only need to supply all these lights' parameters sufficiently (maybe, in a texture), and test how many lights your shader is able to process. Also, in shader you can 18:00 Fixer cull too weak lights (contributing too little into pixel value) or just too distant ones." 18:01 RealBadAngel yeah 18:01 RealBadAngel mt has to prepare lightmap texture for the scene 18:01 RealBadAngel with own multiple lighht sources 18:01 Fixer RealBadAngel, oh wait, TODO has this: "Irrlicht does support occlusion culling. If enabled, it culls scene nodes which are entirely out of the camera's view fulcrum. 18:01 Fixer Problem: The entire map is an Irrlicht scene node. Solution: Make scene nodes per MapBlock." 18:02 Fixer hmm 18:02 RealBadAngel could be done 18:02 RealBadAngel but limit of light sources still applies 18:03 RealBadAngel so no point to rework it 18:04 RealBadAngel for the world like ours only solution is to prepare lightmaps and then count in sun 18:04 Fixer except for culing? 18:04 RealBadAngel idc bout culling 18:04 RealBadAngel not my interest 18:04 Fixer RealBadAngel, btw why it is not complete darkness in caves? 18:05 RealBadAngel gamma levels 18:05 RealBadAngel see light.cpp 18:05 RealBadAngel we do have many fancy gimmicks bout light 18:06 RealBadAngel atm mt lighting is per vertex lighting 18:06 RealBadAngel see irr docs about that 18:06 RealBadAngel irr doesnt calculate it, we set it 18:10 nrzkt RealBadAngel, if i remember 8 light source is a hardware limitation not irrlicht, it's normal 18:11 Calinou nrzkt, lots of games have > 8 light sources in view… 18:11 Calinou (real-time) 18:12 Calinou all with shadows 18:12 Calinou but yeah that's with shaders 18:12 Calinou nobody should use fixed-function anymore ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) 18:13 nrzkt Calinou, it's not real time it uses deferred shading 18:15 RealBadAngel or lightmaps 18:15 RealBadAngel which are used to bake in lights into rendered scene 18:16 RealBadAngel we are not mature enough for such tricks yet ;) 18:19 Calinou don't lightmaps take seconds to bake? 18:21 kahrl I remember creating lightmaps for quake2 levels, that process took many hours 18:22 Calinou yeah, depends on games 18:22 Calinou Cube 2 can do it in seconds 18:22 Calinou q3map2 is more like hours :) 18:27 sofar RealBadAngel: any idea about my comment on mesh vs. plantlike shader choice fixing that issue I posted earlier? 18:27 sofar RealBadAngel: also, I assume placing a torch would cause the engine to regenerate the lightmap then 18:29 RealBadAngel sofar. with first please hold on for a few days, i already did 3d plants before, im doing now something WAY better 18:29 RealBadAngel on 2nd, yes 18:30 RealBadAngel old code have to do lightmaps 18:30 RealBadAngel then we need rendering passes 18:31 RealBadAngel and combine hw and our artificial lights,, aswell other effects (like reflections, refractions, and post process ones) 18:31 RealBadAngel i guess first step should be introduce rendering phases 18:32 RealBadAngel and turn off our lights ;) 18:32 RealBadAngel then, fiat lux 18:32 sofar RealBadAngel: (about the plants placement) oh, I'm not in a hurry, I was just excited to see that I could make a very cool visual change that is highly impactful 18:33 sofar will be happy to test what you are cooking 18:35 sofar I was thinking of adding a flag to nodedef that would force randomized x,z placement, e.g. placement = "randomxz", or just a boolean 18:36 sofar but since scene updates require plants to not move randomly (like I implemented) I'd use some sort of x,y,z based fake noise to vary plant placement 18:37 sofar RealBadAngel: what about the stretch part? I do think that's really badly needed 18:38 est31 ShadowNinja, congrats to commit #200 btw 18:49 RealBadAngel sofar. please do try setting param2 of plants 18:49 RealBadAngel it works pretty nice imho 18:49 sofar RealBadAngel: I do think that the plantlike mesh being 0.7x1.0x0.7 is incorrect 18:50 RealBadAngel sofar, what im coding right now is totally different approach 18:50 sofar I'm listening 18:50 RealBadAngel imagine moretrees one, l-system plant 18:50 RealBadAngel one node sized 18:50 sofar (and I will certainly use the param2 setting - I should modify at least mgv7 to use it) 18:51 RealBadAngel no more flat textures 18:51 RealBadAngel instead real 3d plant 18:51 sofar oh the pixel blocky thing you posted earlier? 18:51 RealBadAngel kinda like extruded one 18:51 sofar right 18:52 RealBadAngel but 16x16x16 texture 18:52 sofar as long as you don't make the size of it 0.7x1.0x0.7 18:52 sofar ;^) 18:53 sofar 16 bitmaps stacked? 18:53 sofar e.g. vertically like animations? 18:53 sofar or, can I even animate it? 18:54 sofar 16x horizontal tiles for each "pane", vertical for animations? 19:00 RealBadAngel 16x16x16 texture 19:00 RealBadAngel stored in meta 19:01 RealBadAngel and each "pixel" of it will be a node, just 1/16th of the size 19:01 RealBadAngel hardcoded for best possible performance 19:02 RealBadAngel then waving 3d plants wont be any problem 19:02 RealBadAngel i will just move 3d pixels 19:02 RealBadAngel that was the main reason is stopped developing extruded plants 19:03 RealBadAngel i have stopped 19:03 sofar IC 19:03 RealBadAngel each pixel gonna become a cube 19:04 RealBadAngel so i wont be moving planes, just those 3d pixels 19:04 RealBadAngel and that will look fucking great. i know that 19:13 luizrpgluiz news which will have the new version of minetest? Version 0.4.14? 19:14 Krock We aren't a company with fixed release termins 19:14 VanessaE luizrpgluiz: it'll be ready when it's ready 19:15 RealBadAngel lol 19:15 VanessaE and PLEASE work on your english grammar! 19:15 VanessaE half the time, we can't understand a fucking thing you're saying :P 19:15 RealBadAngel "when its done" is reserved and trademarked 19:15 Krock VanessaE, are you mad or just rude? :( 19:16 VanessaE Krock: both :P 19:16 Krock RealBadAngel, lol serisously? 19:16 nrzkt what else is also trademarked, stop use it 19:16 RealBadAngel yeah, and she bites, so watch out :P 19:16 VanessaE RealBadAngel: at least that comes sooner than "Real Soon Now"™ :) 19:16 RealBadAngel Krock, see DukeNukem Forever story 19:17 * sofar quietly steps backwards 19:17 VanessaE RAWWWR 19:17 VanessaE *chomp* 19:17 * sofar throws a raw steak 19:17 VanessaE lol 19:18 * RealBadAngel can see a steak flyin back - medium roasted please 19:19 sofar my charcoal grill is in winter sleep, sorry 19:21 VanessaE sofar: at least you don't use propane. :) 19:21 sofar duh, I'm not an idiot. Even an oven is better than propane 19:21 VanessaE heh 19:22 RealBadAngel nothing like propane lighter, and piece of meant fried in seconds 19:22 RealBadAngel that smell ;) 19:22 RealBadAngel *meat 19:22 sofar you haven't had my slow-smoked tri-tip yet 19:23 RealBadAngel folks at construction places are having weird ideas 19:23 sofar haha, yeah 19:23 RealBadAngel ive seen a lot, believe me 19:24 sofar I did some odd jobs over summers, I believe you 19:24 RealBadAngel you know what is the best glue for example? 19:24 sofar not wood putty 19:24 RealBadAngel better than composite ones, harder than concrete 19:25 RealBadAngel milk with cornflakes 19:25 sofar that what I eat for breakfast 19:25 Krock You eat glue for breakfast 19:25 RealBadAngel make a test 19:25 sofar glue my bowels shut so I can stand to last until lunch 19:25 RealBadAngel leave it for a week or two in a dish 19:26 RealBadAngel you will never take the spoon out of it 19:26 sofar does it polymerize? 19:26 RealBadAngel there was a tv programme, myth busters i think about it 19:27 RealBadAngel they tried to blow it out with dynamite i think 19:30 VanessaE seriously? 19:31 RealBadAngel look for "myth busters" series 19:31 VanessaE we're all familiar with Mythbusters 19:31 Calinou systemd busters! 19:32 VanessaE Calinou: no, that needs something a lot better than Mythbusters :) 19:32 VanessaE like "this week in high explosives" :P 19:34 RealBadAngel anyway, im off to coding, still have lotsa to do 20:57 sofar Calinou: I've contributed significantly to systemd... lol. blowing that up? over my dead... well just go easy on it 21:00 * sofar logs in on a 40-core machine, and goes "wheeeeeee!" 21:08 VanessaE it's systemd..... lots of geeks hate it :) (I don't care too much either way, actually, unless the maintainers start enforcing the idea of binary logs etc) 21:08 VanessaE (at which point, it crosses the line) 21:09 exio4 VanessaE: they're already doing so, anyway, 'cause they love the idea of some kind of unification of the linux core packages into systemd, I guess that is what keeps their NIH syndrome going on 21:10 VanessaE *groan* 21:10 VanessaE what we had worked well enough .... 21:10 est31 yet another systemd discussion on the internet 21:24 VanessaE est31: well it IS systemd, so it's a fair target for jokes :) 21:25 est31 sofar, what did you contribute? 21:26 sofar est31: various fixes, but most importantly systemd-bootchartd in it's entirety 21:27 sofar VanessaE: you're entirely right that "it worked well enough", the problem is that it only worked well enough for the people in the ecosystem that had been around for 20 years 21:28 VanessaE I suppose so 21:28 sofar lack of progress == deterioration 21:28 sofar just look at US politics 21:28 sofar ;^) 21:28 VanessaE heh 21:29 sofar btw, the same goes for minetest. if minetest development would stagnate, then that's going to be the end of it, really fast 21:33 sofar I'm not the doomtalker kind. I'm the "let's prevent this" type who hopes people can abandon their fear of change type 21:45 est31 minetest development does stagnate 21:46 est31 tons of stuff gets proposed all the time 21:46 est31 and lots of it cant be merged 21:46 est31 or just people missing to look at it 21:46 est31 and we perform quite badly 21:46 est31 server is essentially single threaded 21:47 est31 emerge threads have huge bureocracy overhead 21:47 sofar nod 21:47 est31 map that gets sent is re-compressed for every single player 21:47 est31 if there are 20 players, it recompresses the same map for all 20 of them 21:47 sofar even if they're in the same area? 21:47 est31 and if its a mapblock filled with all air, it still gets recompressed 21:47 est31 yes 21:47 est31 even then 21:47 sofar can you compress in a separate thread? 21:48 est31 at least I think so 21:48 est31 you could yes 21:48 est31 but that would require to copy the map over 21:48 sofar mmap? 21:48 est31 or to have smarter locking mechanisms 21:48 sofar copy on write? 21:48 est31 can mmap do COW stuff 21:48 sofar linux kernel can handle that 21:49 est31 ohhhh 21:49 est31 cooool! 21:49 sofar I have smart colleagues that do stuff like that 21:49 est31 is that unix thing, or torvalds one? 21:49 sofar not sure, actually 21:50 sofar man 7 mmap-> MAP_PRIVATE 21:50 Fixer that is offtopic, please fix liquids over ignore :} 21:50 sofar Fixer: very on-topic. go chase your fluids for a bit :P 21:51 Fixer sofar, there is minetest for a offtopic disscussion 21:51 Fixer #minetest 21:52 est31 Fixer, we do talk about minetest development. 21:52 sofar Fixer: cow for map updates would be higly beneficial for minetest-core 21:54 sofar est31: you can do CoW stuff in C++, it wouldn't be too hard either, not sure how the data model looks whether how hard it would be 21:55 sofar BSD mmap() has supported MAP_PRIVATE for decades 21:57 nrzkt sofar and what about windows ? 21:57 sofar est31: since we're talking about in-memory map data, I think you'll end up having to mmap() it to shmem, and from there you can re-mmap() with MAP_PRIVATE to all consumers 21:57 nrzkt and compression on a separate thread is useless if you spawn thread only for it. You will generate overhead for nothing. Better is to switch from zlib to lz4 21:57 sofar nrzkt: they'd fall back to the memcpy() code that is slow, likely 21:58 nrzkt i changed my mapblock database compression from zlib to lz4 and i don't see any compression overhead now 21:58 sofar nrzkt: not if that thread is already running and ready to go, and mmap()'s the result back to the sender 21:58 sofar plus minetest's zlib probably needs cpu acceleration 21:58 Fixer help RBA to code last bit of 3199 that can reduce bandwidth usage so you will not need to change anything :} 21:59 nrzkt Fixer, this PR with meta changes ? I had it on my server it's good for clients, server don't care about it 21:59 Fixer yeah 21:59 Fixer clients care :} 21:59 sofar https://github.com/jtkukunas/zlib/commit/d306c75d3bb36cba73aec9b3b3ca378e31d1799e 21:59 nrzkt my client thanks me about this fix 21:59 sofar stuff like that 21:59 Fixer i mean people who play it 21:59 sofar (jkukunas is one of my colleagues) 22:00 nrzkt using LZ4 is better than added patched to patched to patches to zlib 22:00 nrzkt lz4 CPU usage is nothing 22:00 sofar but breaks protocol 22:00 Fixer but is it a main problem? 22:00 est31 yes 22:01 est31 protocol breaks should be avoided 22:01 nrzkt no need to break the protocol, just bump 22:01 est31 but we can bump it 22:01 nrzkt mapblocks are versionned 22:01 est31 exactly 22:01 est31 just have to keep old code around for legacy clients 22:01 nrzkt exact 22:02 est31 soooo wikipedia says lz4 is in fact slower than gzip 22:02 est31 not faster? 22:02 sofar compression algorithms are all the rage, but the question is fast vs. small. and zlib still beats everything overall 22:03 sofar you want fast? you get less compression 22:03 sofar you want small? you get less speed 22:03 sofar you want the best mix of fast and small? for all different types of data? you'll end up with zlib as the best choice when you look at the data 22:03 est31 usual tradeoff of information technology 22:03 sofar (I'm quoting Jim here) 22:04 sofar jim = jkukunas 22:04 est31 ok 22:04 nrzkt est31 for linux kernel and ZFS datasets LZ4 is better than GZIP 22:04 est31 sofar, this his blog? http://jkukunas.blogspot.com/ 22:04 sofar yes, it's a specific data set 22:04 sofar lz4 for linux kernels is good because of high decompression speed 22:04 est31 you work at intel? 22:05 sofar since you compress once, and thousands of people decompress 22:05 sofar est31: yes. auke-jan.h.kok@intel.com 22:05 nrzkt in MT you do less writes than read 22:05 est31 O.o 22:05 sofar I just had pizza for lunch with Jim. He's moving states. 22:06 sofar est31: well, I should be working right ... well now... cough 22:06 est31 but still the count of writes is comparatively large nrzkt. compare minetest with youtube video that gets encoded at upload, then gets watched millions of times 22:06 nrzkt est31 in singleplayuer read ~= write, with 20 players it's not the same case. 22:07 sofar well you're symmetrical - each mapblock gets compressed and decompressed once 22:07 nrzkt i should go 22:07 * sofar waves... thinking he should go back to work as well ;^) 22:07 * est31 should not waste time on irc either ... :) 22:08 * est31 presses the button with the little cross 22:08 sofar studies? wife? work? jail time? 22:08 sofar lol