Time Nick Message 00:04 kilbith someone should try out MT on a Wayland session and see what happens with the camera... 00:07 JohnnyComeL8ly kilbith, mind telling me what happens? 00:07 JohnnyComeL8ly I don't want to switch right now. :-P 00:07 kilbith kind of indescriptible 00:08 JohnnyComeL8ly Ah, well, that merits a try! 00:08 kilbith but XWayland ensure a compat with X11 and it works more or less finely on other games 00:08 kilbith in a mediocre way on MT 00:08 kilbith i'm concerned since it'll be the new standard on Linux very soon 00:10 JohnnyComeL8ly kilbith, I want to see Wayland support too, but it is dependent upon Irrlicht... and they said that isn't a priority for them. 00:10 kilbith well that's a real treat for the future of MT 00:11 JohnnyComeL8ly [off] no comment 00:11 est31 what is a priority for irrlicht either way? 00:11 est31 irrlicht is more dead than minetest is. 00:14 hmmmm at least upgrade to Antartica (SuperTuxCart fork of Irrlicht) 00:15 JohnnyComeL8ly I'm thinking that they are caught up in trying to match a commercial engine.... 00:16 est31 I don't really know what Antartica is about... is it more a generic engine? is it one tailored for STK's needs? 00:16 JohnnyComeL8ly [off] IIrc, osense was my source of info on this topic. 00:17 hmmmm read http://supertuxkart.sourceforge.net/Antarctica:_Technical_Details 00:17 JohnnyComeL8ly est31, providing a patch for Wayland support is possible, is it not? 00:19 est31 JohnnyComeL8ly, idk whether this mouse pointer capture thing still works 00:19 est31 but ask c55 he has talked in his channel about irrlicht minetest before 00:24 est31 oh this is cool 00:24 est31 starting STK gives me [warn ] [IrrDriver Temp Logger]: Level 3: Vertex shader compilation failed at position -1: right away 00:24 est31 but it still runs! 00:24 hmmmm they have a Beastie character! 00:31 est31 and yes I've timed out because I've tried to start stk 00:31 dandelion1 Hey, I'm new. Would someone recommend a little maintenance issue to get me started? 00:32 est31 seems 4gb aren't enough to have stk + firefox with a moderate number open + hexchat 00:32 est31 dandelion1, a starter issue? 00:32 dandelion1 Yeah 00:33 est31 dandelion1, which part of minetest are you interested in helping in? minetest_game, minetest engine? client? server? 00:34 dandelion1 Engine. Eventually I want to do sqlite or threading 00:37 dandelion1 Those two things I'm new to. I've done a lot with fractals/cellular automata/dungeon generation 00:47 est31 dandelion1, do you know how to use c++ templates? 00:47 dandelion1 Yes 00:47 est31 nice. 00:48 est31 can you write a ring buffer type and place it in src/util/container.h ? 00:48 dandelion1 Okay 00:48 est31 & then use it to speed up on gregorycu's speedup of the profiler code 00:50 est31 the class is called ProfilerGraph and resides in src/game.cpp 00:50 est31 idea is to replace m_log with a ring buffer 01:08 paramat now merging https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/722 Default/mapgen: Fix missing taiga pine (trivial fix) 01:13 paramat done 01:13 hmmmm heh 01:13 hmmmm just played super tux kart for a while 01:13 hmmmm it's a really cute game 01:16 paramat i intend to check out the latest version 01:45 paramat hmmmm with some help i managed to get mgfractal using mgv5 cavegen, it works but please can you review the implementation sometime? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3351 01:56 hmmmm oh god wtf 01:57 hmmmm paramat: why do you need to cast mg to a MapgenV5 exactly? 01:57 paramat to fix an error message after applying pilzadam's advice 01:58 hmmmm that doesn't really fix the error... 01:58 hmmmm okay do you see this line? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3351/files#diff-b3b3932e4dba81e4e399d61603c86d8aR33 01:58 paramat https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3313#issuecomment-152870648 01:58 hmmmm change that from MapgenV5 to Mapgen 01:58 paramat ^ that was pilzadam's advice 01:58 hmmmm then change this line https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3351/files#diff-e876a0a129495f2b2dd1182861fa6ea3R36 to remove the cast 01:59 hmmmm then tell me if you get any errors from that 01:59 paramat okay 01:59 paramat i may have tried that before, will report 01:59 hmmmm yes, so you did change the first parameter to a Mapgen, but you didn't follow along with the rest of the steps needed to generalize that cave code.. 02:00 hmmmm this is kind of like somebody asking for a blue house and you paint the front door blue 02:00 hmmmm and then when they ask about the rest of it you cover it over with a giant tarp and say, "oh I casted it blue, see this blue tarp?" 02:00 paramat lol 02:08 paramat ok i did try this before. 'mg->ystride' in the cavegen code now causes this error ‘class Mapgen’ has no member named ‘ystride’ 02:09 paramat no other errors 02:11 paramat maybe define ystride in the constructor.. 02:11 hmmmm surely you can figure out how to solve that 02:12 paramat ok i'll fiddle for a while 02:12 hmmmm well logically, tell me how you think it could be solved 02:13 hmmmm if MapgenV5 has a member 'ystride' but Mapgen does not, what's the first thing you need to figure out here 02:17 paramat i was going to try defining it in the ctor 'this->ystride = mg->ystride', there's not much logic behind it 02:18 paramat somehow i need to access the subclass 02:23 paramat fiddling.. 02:24 hmmmm paramat: defining it in the ctor is a good idea 02:24 paramat ah it compiles 02:24 hmmmm also consider moving it out to the base class as well 02:25 hmmmm the first question I'd ask myself is, "what is this 'ystride' variable? what does it do? where does it come from?" 02:26 paramat i added 'MapgenV5 *mgv5;' to header, then to cpp: 'this->mgv5 = (MapgenV5 *)mg;' and 'this->ystride = mgv5->ystride;' 02:26 paramat but not tested yet 02:26 hmmmm lol 02:26 hmmmm that breaks MapgenFractal now 02:27 paramat heh 02:27 hmmmm in general, don't cast things unless you actually know what it is you're doing 02:27 paramat i rarely know what i'm doing hehe 02:27 hmmmm in that case what it does is reinterprets the memory at the location specified by "mg" as a MapgenV5 02:28 hmmmm if the object at that location is actually a MapgenFractal, are you sure the same variables will line up in the same exact order and offsets as with MapgenV5? 02:28 paramat ah, of course not 02:31 paramat notice i changed the way to get the content ids, to fix an error message, if ystride can be accessed i can go back to getting those ids from mapgenv5 02:31 paramat sorry i have studied pointers a little but still don't understand them, need to work through some tutorials again 02:32 hmmmm maybe it would help if you saw what was going on at a lower level of abstraction 02:32 hmmmm have you ever stepped through code using a debugger? 02:33 paramat nope 02:33 paramat i have used gdb though 02:34 paramat i have spent many hours on this cavegen problem, it's beginning to drive me nuts =) 02:34 hmmmm ahh don't worry I'll get it then 02:35 hmmmm this takes like 5 sec for me to do 02:35 paramat ok remember to include the adding of a lava level constant 02:36 paramat or you could tell me what to do 02:37 paramat probably less work to do it than explain though 02:39 paramat then i'll learn from it and apply this to mgflat also, to use mgv5 cavegen 02:39 paramat thanks 02:40 VanessaE celeron55: impressive "far mesh" image 02:42 paramat VanessaE http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest-dev/2015-11-08#i_4445983 02:42 VanessaE saw that 02:42 VanessaE I'd tend to agree though :) 02:43 VanessaE celeron55: regarding that ^^^ storing objects in a separate database would at least mean than a /clearobjects could just delete the objects database. I'd say that would be rather fast :) 02:44 hmmmm the primary problem is that certain databases minetest uses does not efficiently support spatially stored data 02:44 VanessaE how does sqlite handle it? 02:44 hmmmm sqlite can do this because it has a range query and it also has an R* tree implementation 02:44 hmmmm sqlite uses SQL 02:44 VanessaE because really, is there any reason to support multiple backends for the object database? 02:44 hmmmm redis has a similar query language too 02:45 hmmmm it's literally just because leveldb is a key-value store, there's no way to ask for all rows with X >= -400 AND X <= 400 AND Y >= ... 02:46 hmmmm the way minetest hashes its block positions makes it so that it can't do range queries, but increases compatibility with modern "no-SQL" databases 02:47 hmmmm in any case I'm not convinced a really fast /clearobjects is worth the massive design change this entails 02:48 VanessaE well 02:48 VanessaE I don't personally run /clearobjects very often 02:48 VanessaE but I *do* find myself using worldedit's selection-limited version fairly often (//clearobjects with two slashes) 02:49 VanessaE so at the very least, est31's idea would be useful anyway 02:50 dandelion1 What C++ standard are we using? 02:51 VanessaE whatever one step short of C++11 is :) 02:51 dandelion1 98? 02:52 dandelion1 What's the thinking on that? 02:52 est31 03 02:52 paramat ok i'm going to do stony desert another way, making it a highland biome stacked above desert, as in mgv6. it makes sense that sand would collect on lower ground and the redstone mountains will look good 02:53 VanessaE because not all supported OS's have full C++11 support 02:53 est31 and some core devs are even users of those OSes 02:53 est31 (not me) 02:53 paramat also i feel rainforest should stop at some point below the clouds, so i'll vertically limit that biome 02:53 VanessaE paramat: well 02:54 VanessaE belay that for a moment.. 02:54 est31 there have been lots of discussions on the c++11 topic 02:54 dandelion1 Sore subject? 02:54 paramat sure input welcome 02:54 est31 earlier this year, there has been a very strong one led by gregorycu, back then c55 decided to change to c++11 when the new debian came out 02:54 VanessaE I live in the mountains of western North Carolina, and while it ain't a rain forest by any stretch, clouds *below* the mountain tops (themselves covered with evergreens and deciduous) are a common occurrence 02:55 est31 then later on, somehow that descision got forgotten 02:55 est31 but it is consensus it seems that we will require c++11 once precise (ubuntu 12.04) is out of support 02:55 est31 which is 2017. 02:55 VanessaE mountain tops here peak in the 1000 to 2000-ish meters range, or perhaps a bit more 02:56 VanessaE (this area would be considered "temperate") 02:59 paramat ok 02:59 est31 Any progress with the ring buffer dandelion1? Any problems? 03:00 VanessaE this is the sort of area where the elevation varies so much that in the winter (or the end thereof), one end of say, a 10 km drive will have wet ground and tolerable temperatures, while the other is snow-covered and too cold to go out without at least a light coat 03:01 paramat certainly appletrees and pines should continue up into floatlands, but rainforest seems to need to be below the primary cloud cover to be wet enough 03:01 VanessaE maybe the clouds themselves ought to be raised up? 03:01 paramat anyway i'm not sure 03:01 VanessaE or a second, high-altitude layer could be added. 03:02 paramat i prefer extra layers of clouds, but i doubt another layer of drifting clouds would be accepted 03:03 VanessaE you never know 03:03 VanessaE it's not like they're made up of tons of polys 03:03 paramat well if we end up with multiple stacked realms.. 03:03 paramat but that's the future 03:03 VanessaE yes 03:03 dandelion1 The buffer going to be full all of the time? 03:04 VanessaE but then again, stacked realms wouldn't even have the clouds anyways 03:04 est31 no 03:04 VanessaE and if you give say a 2km separation between layers, with a second clout layer at, let's say 500m above sea level, then no problem. 03:04 VanessaE cloud* 03:04 paramat so currently all biomes go up to 31000, the issue is what to change with altitude, and what biomes/resources will be wanted on high floatlands 03:05 VanessaE to me, elevation correlates with drier, colder air anyway 03:05 paramat yeah clouds disappear at 2kn distance, so we'd never need to render 2 layers at one time 03:05 est31 well dandelion1 once its filled it will be full, all the time, just until then, it won't be. 03:05 VanessaE so unless a stacked realm specifies some other mapgen parameters or something, then it should eventually turn to something like tundra and then eventually glaciers 03:05 dandelion1 It's for the graph thing of a profiler, yeah? It can be filled with nothing values 03:06 paramat sure realistically all floatlands and mountains would be tundra, but for gameplay that would make floatlands unplayable 03:06 VanessaE naw I don't mean like that 03:07 VanessaE a quick google says 9.8 degrees C per 1000 meters of elevation 03:07 VanessaE so if you used real numbers, you wouldn't get into permafrost until you're nearly at the top of the world anyway 03:08 paramat well temp doesn't vary with altitude in MT, it's 2D noise 03:08 VanessaE I know. 03:08 VanessaE just something to consider for the future when these realms become possible. 03:09 paramat cotton comes from junglegrass, so that will be wanted high up, perhaps rainforest should continue up then 03:09 paramat i'll just do the stony desert for now 03:10 paramat that means no cacti or desert sand high up 03:33 paramat hmmmm how about calculating ystride from csize in the cavegen ctor? csize is a member of class Mapgen 03:39 paramat i'll try it, i'd like to do this commit myself if possible =) 03:44 paramat compiles 03:49 paramat it works. thanks for the hints. it came to me while washing-up, as always 03:50 paramat will update the pr 03:51 paramat this->ystride = mg->csize.X; 03:52 sofar $ bin/minetest 03:52 sofar Segmentation fault (core dumped) 03:52 sofar wheps? master not building atm? 03:56 sofar Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault. 03:56 sofar 0x00000000006625c4 in ClientActiveObject::registerType(unsigned short, ClientActiveObject* (*)(IGameDef*, ClientEnvironment*)) () 03:56 sofar at start, no params or anything 03:56 hmmmm sounds like you might be using irrlicht 1.8.2 03:56 est31 sofar, gentoo user? 03:57 sofar est31: archlinux 03:57 est31 if your system is up to date, you should have 1.8.3 03:57 sofar sucks that it segfaults, is it that hard to detect an incompatible api? 03:58 est31 1.8.2 is broken 03:58 est31 that bug has nothing to do with api incompatiblity 03:58 est31 but is rather a bug in irrlicht itself 03:58 est31 fixed in 1.8.3 03:59 * sofar upgrades 04:09 hmmmm https://github.com/kwolekr/minetest/commit/bdb7b9b2b73929d0315ef5c022ae03cedbe933de 04:09 hmmmm PTAL 04:09 paramat wow 04:09 hmmmm paramat: that's doable too 04:10 paramat acceptable? 04:10 hmmmm sure 04:10 paramat ok good pr is updated and ready to go 04:12 hmmmm looks good 04:12 est31 Can you change "Irrlicht 1.8.2 known to be broken with Minetest Client" to "Irrlicht 1.8.2 is known to be broken - please update ..." ? 04:12 est31 so add "is" and remove "with minetest client"? 04:12 paramat great 04:12 est31 I consider a library that can'T even execute its own examples to be broken 04:13 hmmmm ok fine 04:14 hmmmm https://github.com/kwolekr/minetest/commit/889f893ff37021d97d1805c2e21128b5befa21f5 04:14 est31 the problem is just that irrlicht has so few users these days, that we are the first to have the bug. 04:14 est31 +1 04:14 hmmmm PROBLEM SOLVED. 04:15 hmmmm now we will never get another "can somebody please help minetest crashes on startup" person 04:15 est31 well, there is suse 04:15 est31 they keep ignoring my bug report https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=951710 04:16 hmmmm it's only been like two weeks 04:16 hmmmm give it some more time 04:16 est31 perhaps I should have pointed out that I am dev for minetest and that all our users report it, its no edge case 04:16 hmmmm agh 04:17 hmmmm should have I added a check for gcc version too, you think? 04:18 est31 well if you want amend the commit 04:18 est31 now its still inside 10 minute range 04:18 hmmmm is it broken with ANY other ccs? 04:18 est31 but doing a commit extra for that? I dont think thats needed. 04:19 est31 well it is broken I think if irrlicht was compiled with gcc 5 and the program with non-gcc 04:19 est31 but im not sure 04:19 hmmmm ugh 04:19 est31 it really is the best option to avoid 1.8.2 entirely 04:19 hmmmm true 04:19 ShadowNinja est31: (Re: C++11) IIRC I think we came to a decision to release it when latest debian stable supported it, which is now the case. PilzAdam then stated the 2017 date and I supported him because someone was starting a "when to switch to C++11" debate and we'd already had that discussion. 2017 is way too late IMO, we should be on C++14 or C++17 by then. Even if your distro's default compiler is horribly, horribly old you can always add 04:19 ShadowNinja an updated repo to your package manager or cross-compile, so even obsolete distros aren't completely dropped. 04:20 hmmmm i had a lot of trouble compiling minetest with gcc on this machine because it expects a certain libcxxrt version 04:21 est31 who needs type deduction 04:22 est31 rust could have had type deduction in the function return type too but they decided against 04:22 est31 at some point you do want to know the type 04:22 est31 thats the whole point of strongly typed language 04:30 dandelion1 Type deduction is really nice when you're writing templates 04:31 dandelion1 I could also do with range-based for loops and unordered maps 04:31 hmmmm we avoid templates unless it's really really convenient otherwise 04:31 hmmmm just because C++ has it does not mean it's a good feature 04:31 est31 well, its good for generic containers 04:31 hmmmm it's *okay* for generic containers 04:32 hmmmm you have the whole problem that it needs to be wholly defined in a header 04:32 hmmmm forward defining is difficult too 04:32 hmmmm very annoying slow and bloated 04:32 hmmmm also another nitpick but it seems like a lot of IDEs screw up syntax highlighting with templated functions 04:33 hmmmm but the main reason to hate templates is the complexity of them 04:34 dandelion1 They are a tool and a sometimes complex tool but when used properly the make the solving a problem simpler 04:36 hmmmm right it's just that a lot of the language fanboys seem to use them improperly 04:36 hmmmm i don't have a problem with tasteful template usage... 04:37 dandelion1 People get excited about their new toys 04:37 hmmmm dandelion1: Are you gregorycu? 04:37 dandelion1 I'm learning databases right now and every problem looks like it can be solved with a database 04:38 dandelion1 No 04:39 hmmmm oh. you kind of talk like him 04:41 hmmmm paramat: PTAL https://github.com/kwolekr/minetest/commit/9f0efd53358f16108dea4c69d9d7834ec024f78e 04:42 paramat ok will check it 05:03 paramat hmmmm your pr seems okay AFAIK +1 05:05 est31 PTAL https://github.com/est31/minetest/commit/63e7137e3bb3ef2531faac995e8817b2c3fedc8c 05:05 est31 before, we had a line with == 90 chars 05:06 est31 & it violated the < 6 lines of indentation rule too 05:07 est31 (on wish of ShadowNinja) 05:18 ShadowNinja LGTM 05:19 paramat seems okay to me 05:21 ShadowNinja hmmmm: Why the constants added to the seeds? 05:22 paramat i'd like to merge https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3351 now can i go ahead? 05:23 paramat now merging 3351 05:23 paramat oh i need to rebase nvm 05:23 ShadowNinja If for uniquness, then just add 1, 2, 3, ... if PCG handles that well, or do something more thorough like "seed ^ 0xF0F0F0F0" if not. 05:24 paramat anyway me next 05:28 paramat ok now merging 05:32 paramat done 05:37 hmmmm ShadowNinja: ? 05:40 ShadowNinja hmmmm: PcgRandom ps(blockseed + 53); -- Why 53? 05:41 hmmmm because i like the number 53 05:45 dandelion1 est31: The ring buffer is finished 05:46 paramat progres on cavegen means mgflat will be ready to go in soon, but hidden while we sort out mgflags 05:48 est31 okay dandelion1. Th next step is to use it in game.cpp 05:48 est31 or have you done that already as well? 05:49 dandelion1 No. I was thinking code review and merge and do the use of it separately. 05:50 est31 having it both in one is okay too 05:50 est31 that way you know right away what it's for. 05:51 est31 but two changes, okay for me 05:51 est31 do you know how to make pull requests on github etc? 05:51 est31 if yes then make one :) 05:53 dandelion1 Okay, I'll finish this up tomorrow. Goodnight 05:54 est31 night 05:54 est31 I'll go too 08:01 celeron55 oh, about C++11 08:01 celeron55 the thing is, we can't start using it before deciding how exactly we do it 08:02 celeron55 it's not a good idea to just declare that "now we use it" 08:02 celeron55 that would be just a mess 08:03 celeron55 we need to have a plan that tells us what features are encouraged and what are not, and what things will be allowed to be reworked for the sake of it and what things will be left as-is until they actually need changing 08:03 est31 well, we won't need out threading lib anymore, do we 08:04 est31 agree on the idea to first make a plan before discussing about PRs that change all for loops or make everything auto 08:08 hmmmm i don't think i like those types of PRs anyway 08:10 celeron55 i guess we could propose random things now and try to form a coherent wiki page at some point 08:10 hmmmm well whatever it is, it has to actually help minetest in some way 08:10 hmmmm really want people to get into the habit of asking themselves, "how does this PR help minetest" before they decide to make one 08:11 hmmmm really tired of these massive and random bullshit changes 08:12 celeron55 i guess we're going to be pretty strict about changing old code just for stylistic reasons 08:13 celeron55 so we should mainly talk about what to allow in new code 08:13 hmmmm well right off I can say that unordered_set and unordered_map should go in 08:13 hmmmm i love the new emplace() for containers 08:14 hmmmm foreach is great for iterators 08:14 hmmmm auto is great too, but it's potentitally dangerous 08:14 hmmmm i don't think it should be used for anything aside from iterator types 08:14 hmmmm (that's also where the greatest benefit is imo) 08:15 celeron55 i'll start by saying that allowing auto for iterators and allowing non-static member initializers are things that makes programming an important bit more pleasant 08:15 hmmmm old non-C++11 threading/mutex/what have you code should not be trashed right away if at all 08:15 celeron55 (well you started already, but i started that line like that before you said anything lol) 08:16 celeron55 but changing those just for the sake of changing them makes no sense 08:16 hmmmm initializer lists got better 08:16 hmmmm like for example NoiseParams could benefit from this 08:17 hmmmm I don't want a bunch of PRs going around changing this though unless it's unobtrusive 08:17 hmmmm we can change the statically initialized std::maps (for example the color names to color map) 08:19 celeron55 i would also allow unique_ptr for memory management in new code; maybe not shared_ptr due to the reasons you have said before 08:19 hmmmm yeah, unique_ptr doesn't have all the same problems as shared pointers 08:19 hmmmm I still think it's kind of BS though 08:20 celeron55 well, if it makes someone more comfortable developing things, you don't have a good reason against it 08:20 hmmmm outright ban on lambdas 08:21 hmmmm also there's that custom literal modifier function but I forget what it's called 08:21 hmmmm where you can do H"32" and it'd transform the string to "0x20" or something like that 08:21 hmmmm i agree it's really cute but i think it's a little too implicit 08:22 hmmmm people need to actually be aware that there's code running when they add that little "H" or what have you 08:22 celeron55 i don't like those at all 08:22 celeron55 i like lambdas though, but in current minetest i don't see many places where they would be useful so it's a good idea to make people talk before doing 08:23 hmmmm my take on C++11 lambdas 08:23 hmmmm it's not going to boost our productivity 08:23 hmmmm it's going to confuse the crap out of everybody though 08:23 celeron55 they allow making completely different kind of code than you traditionally do in C++ 08:23 hmmmm like you said, there are not many places to actually put them to "good use" 08:23 hmmmm right, AKA confusing the crap out of people 08:23 celeron55 if you'd see the code of one of my projects where i use them, it's like a completely different language 08:24 hmmmm because functional programming is a meme 08:24 hmmmm and C++11 is just C++'s attempt to latch onto it 08:24 hmmmm "am I cool yet guise??? look i have functional programming" 08:25 hmmmm what do you think about nullptr? 08:26 celeron55 well, what is there to think about it? i have found no benefit from using it but i guess it's fancy 08:26 celeron55 i use it in my C++11 projects 08:26 hmmmm my thoughts exactly 08:26 celeron55 no benefit or disbenefit whatsoever 08:26 celeron55 you could just sed -i -e's/NULL/nullptr/g' and whatever lol 08:26 hmmmm i see in tons of other projects people running around adding nullptr everywhere 08:26 hmmmm it's distracting 08:26 hmmmm they think it makes the code better somehow 08:27 celeron55 i guess we could ban if just for the lulz 08:27 hmmmm C++ fucked up early on with some edge cases and now they're trying to fix them all... too late, everybody accepts NULL's quirks 08:27 celeron55 ban it* 08:27 hmmmm I think it should be banned for the sake of consistency with everything else 08:28 hmmmm I mean all of a sudden we're going to have old code with NULL and new code with nullptr, and new code from old people with NULL, and some new people who think nullptr is the greatest thing since sliced bread who go around changing NULLs to nullptr 08:28 hmmmm or modifying old code and using nullptr 08:28 hmmmm basically a mess 08:29 hmmmm i can't think of any other new C++11 features off the top of my head 08:30 celeron55 i'm sure the reworkninjas will just keep their mouths shut until they have made a PR that uses some loopholes in our rules 08:30 hmmmm just one more thing about smart pointers 08:30 hmmmm one thing that I deeply hate about it 08:30 hmmmm the syntax 08:31 hmmmm why is it a template for some certain type? why isn't it like a new @ or something? 08:31 celeron55 i have STL's bloated identifiers overally and typedef things in my projects started after minetest to ss_, sv_, sm_, sp_, up_ and stuff 08:31 celeron55 being std::string, std::vector, std::map, std::sharerd_ptr, std::unique_ptr 08:31 celeron55 have? *hate 08:32 celeron55 i should wake up before trying to type on IRC 08:32 hmmmm the length of std::unique_ptr< ... > is enough to make me want to never use it 08:32 hmmmm I know it's making my code "better" in some vague manner 08:32 celeron55 up_ is awesome 08:32 hmmmm Thing @ would be the best 08:33 celeron55 i would really like if i could get these shorthands into minetest but i haven't bothered trying because i guess people that like typing twice the amount of characters all the time would object 08:33 hmmmm that's because you're you, doing it for your own personal project, and you're the only one working on it 08:34 celeron55 how does that explain anything 08:34 hmmmm don't increase the mental load for 100+ contributors... 08:34 hmmmm they don't know your bits of shorthand 08:34 celeron55 i'm sure people would get used to those very fast because they are so common; and rare ones don't need shorthands because they are rare 08:35 celeron55 we have all these u16's and stuff too; they are not that much different 08:35 hmmmm hrmm 08:36 hmmmm is $ a valid identifier character in C++03? 08:36 celeron55 it... is 08:36 hmmmm hm it's not 08:36 hmmmm that's just a GCC-ism 08:36 hmmmm also other old compilers allow it 08:36 celeron55 oh, so it's valid in g++, not c++03 8) 08:36 hmmmm that would've been nice 08:37 hmmmm I can live with $V 08:37 hmmmm that looks really nice in fact and I can hold onto the shift bar for three characters 08:37 celeron55 $V is harder to type than something like up_ 08:37 celeron55 $ comes from altgr+4 in finnish and german keyboards 08:37 hmmmm I'm trying to type it right now and it seems like the opposite for me 08:38 hmmmm oh okay 08:38 celeron55 and < doesn't need shift 08:38 hmmmm well 08:39 hmmmm I guess it would make sense to optimize for german keyboards since for whatever strange reason a majority of minetest devs seem to be german... 08:39 hmmmm i'd rather try to find something universal though 08:40 celeron55 $v<> would be kind of fine because of not having to switch between pressing altgr and pressing shift 08:40 celeron55 actually really fine 08:40 hmmmm harder for me though 08:40 hmmmm because I have an american keyboard 08:40 hmmmm well what a moot point 08:40 hmmmm it's not like we can actually use $ for real 08:40 celeron55 why not just V<> though? 08:41 celeron55 it's not like anyone uses a thing like V for anything anyway 08:41 hmmmm macro parameters, template parameters, 08:41 celeron55 oh, template parameters i guess yeah 08:41 hmmmm in any case I'm not really sure if inserting our own shorthand is that great of an idea into an already established project 08:42 hmmmm it's good to be as non-weird as possible 08:42 hmmmm a lot of the style decisions have been made on the basis of it being a quasi-standard 08:42 celeron55 well, a C++11 transition is the absolute best time for it; no other such chance comes ever again 08:42 hmmmm really? 08:43 celeron55 well, maybe in 10 years but anyway 08:43 hmmmm I don't think a C++11 transition should mean anything except switching a few compiler flags 08:43 hmmmm and if people want to start using their C++11 features... they can 08:43 celeron55 well the transition means that we have to write stuff down and people have to read the stuff 08:43 celeron55 so the stuff could mention something like this if we want to 08:43 hmmmm but god no, no big effort to ctrl+H everything just for the sake of replacing it 08:45 hmmmm alright how about Vec 08:45 hmmmm std::vector, 11 characters, to 3 08:45 celeron55 that would be fine 08:46 hmmmm this needs to be a gradual change though 08:46 hmmmm add the typedef to... util/misc.h (we'll rename basic_macros I guess) and just *start* using it 08:48 hmmmm those big omni-commits really mess with git blame 08:51 celeron55 hmm... i think i'm not ready for doing that now though; i'll try to investigate at some point what the usage of those identifiers is and maybe even approximate how many hard-to-read newlines they would have removed or something 08:51 hmmmm this is the fault of the language 08:52 hmmmm it can be fixed with a single piece of syntax like ^ or % or @ or $ 08:52 celeron55 there's a benefit but it really may not be high enough; i'm not going to mess things up just for the sake of it 08:52 hmmmm revision after revision they just keep adding things in the form of a template 08:54 hmmmm anyway 08:54 hmmmm I don't necessarily dislike long type names since they typically give some kind of mental note that the type is bigger than some POD thing 08:57 celeron55 std:: contains many POD types though 08:57 celeron55 it's just a stylistic choice for us to not use them from there 08:57 hmmmm those should be abbreviated for sure 08:57 hmmmm but "std::big_thing_here" makes me think twice before typing that big thing a lot 08:57 hmmmm and unconsciously i know that big thing here is bigger than int or u64 or something 08:58 hmmmm subconsciously i mean 11:49 celeron55 wtf is wrong with logging 11:49 celeron55 i'm printing truckloads of stuff into infostream and it just isn't showing up anywhere 11:49 celeron55 if i change it to std::cout, it shows up 11:50 celeron55 the weirdest thing is that some of it shows up 11:50 celeron55 but only like two lines out of a thousand lines 12:37 gregorycu Someone should tell hmmm that I am not everyone 13:00 nrzkt !tell hmmmm: gregorycu said he isn't everyone 13:00 ShadowBot nrzkt: O.K. 13:00 nrzkt gregorycu, done :D 13:00 gregorycu Thank you shadowbot 13:00 gregorycu And nrzkt 13:13 celeron55 http://i.imgur.com/axtJ31S.jpg 13:13 celeron55 holy fucking shit 13:14 celeron55 at this point i am completely terrified of myself, my computer and this weird piece of software 13:16 celeron55 this has some real character to itself too 13:16 nrzkt celeron55, seems better 13:16 celeron55 it's not just "a LOD system" 13:24 celeron55 that screenshot is quite magical to anyone that has used watershed, actually 13:24 celeron55 nobody has ever had such a view of it while in theory that's what it has been generating all the time 13:28 celeron55 large plain areas are actually pretty fun with this because you can always easily find a forest if you want to; just look around and walk straight into one 13:38 celeron55 oh, looks like a thing isn't even working correctly in that screenshot 13:38 celeron55 well whatever 8) 14:50 RealBadAngel celeron55, thats lookin real good. but it should be blurred somehow 14:51 RealBadAngel i mean just the farmesh 14:52 celeron55 i'm not interested in such things 14:52 RealBadAngel thats eye candy im talkin about, so i do undersrtand you 14:53 celeron55 to me eye candy is clear pictures 14:53 RealBadAngel youre not 90% of the population ;) 14:54 celeron55 i don't need anyone to simulate short sightedness for me in my games 14:54 RealBadAngel have you saw my gimp blur with your farmesh mountain? 14:55 RealBadAngel that made farmesh lose its line-y style 14:55 celeron55 yes; it does not look any better 14:55 celeron55 why on earth are you even here if you don't like lines and cubes 14:55 celeron55 go do something else 14:56 RealBadAngel i do love them, but a bit softer :P 14:57 RealBadAngel have u thought u got rid of me already? 14:57 RealBadAngel sorry, winnetou, mt is my hobby :P 14:59 RealBadAngel celeron55, and i should say im sorry to you and hmmm at this point. i had problems with my health, high pressure 15:00 RealBadAngel im treating it now 15:01 RealBadAngel so, again sorry for my attitude 15:02 RealBadAngel that wasnt me 15:03 celeron55 that we will see 15:03 RealBadAngel ofc 15:03 RealBadAngel but please do accept that im sorry 15:04 RealBadAngel i took long break for everybody to calm down 15:13 RealBadAngel i dont want my code be called "half-assed", im still here and want to work on it 15:39 VanessaE [11-09 08:00] !tell hmmmm: gregorycu said he isn't everyone 15:50 VanessaE um, wut? http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/13209282/ (server is at commit 1384108f) 16:02 celeron55 so... i think this may be testable by someone else now 16:02 celeron55 https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/commits/far_map_wip 16:02 celeron55 there it is 16:03 celeron55 it's fully protocol compatible so it can be thrown anywhere anyone likes 16:04 celeron55 but it might bloat up a world pretty badly; and running a lua map generator with is completely insane 16:04 * VanessaE clones... 16:06 celeron55 really any map generator other than paramat's built-in watershed (that is included in that barnch) is mostly nonsense 16:06 celeron55 branch* 16:11 VanessaE "creating farmap atlas" hm 16:12 VanessaE very interesting effect. 16:13 VanessaE it's a little fiddly in a couple places but it DOES give the impression of more, distant land. 16:14 VanessaE suggestion: ignore plantlike objects when generating the far meshes 16:15 VanessaE also, sink the farmesh into the fog a bit more 16:19 celeron55 press ctrl+- to make it not try to render it so far 16:20 VanessaE ah, that helps a bit yet 16:20 VanessaE yes* 16:20 celeron55 it defaults to 500 and it will not adjust the fog to differ from that in any circumstance 16:20 celeron55 and this is intentional 16:21 celeron55 maybe the fog should get thicker earlier but i didn't bother modifying the shader to make that effect 16:22 VanessaE 300 is a good setting for VE-Survival (well, local copy thereof) 16:24 celeron55 take a screenshot or something 16:24 celeron55 i don't really have a library of worlds to try it in 16:25 VanessaE http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/screenshots/Screenshot_2015-11-09_11-25-26.png 16:26 celeron55 i bet that it's not that impressive in existing worlds though; people will start building stuff very differently once they have this in their hands 16:26 celeron55 how about in some open area? 16:26 VanessaE sec 16:28 celeron55 also, everybody should note that my to-do list contains about 20 entries; don't expect it to work or be what i want it to be 16:28 VanessaE no worries. 16:29 VanessaE http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/screenshots/random/Screenshot_2015-11-09_11-28-37.png 16:29 Krock 404 16:29 celeron55 200 16:30 Krock stil 404 16:30 Krock VanessaE, could it be that I'm being pranked? Your homepage root shows up a Nginx welcome page here 16:30 VanessaE the "stripey" effect can be mitigated somewhat if you always choose the "base" texture, e.g. the dirt layer for dirt with grass. 16:31 VanessaE Krock: the homepage root shows my usual landing page here. 16:31 sfan5 blame your ISP 16:31 VanessaE "Welcome to Abe and Vanessa's website. Please choose a destination:" plus Abe's and my pictures. 16:32 Krock *does a IP lookup* 16:32 celeron55 VanessaE: the stripey effect is very intentional; i could make an option out of it though 16:32 celeron55 VanessaE: what does that blue stuff look like up close? 16:32 VanessaE Krock: should resolve to 198.27.68.162 16:32 celeron55 i need some reference pictures to improve these approximations 16:32 VanessaE checking.. 16:32 hmmmm holy shit @ the farmap branch 16:33 hmmmm how is it even possible to generate so many commits 16:33 Krock Got answer from [2607:5300:60:1da2::1] ... must blame my ISP then 16:33 celeron55 VanessaE: also what on earth is that yellow block in the sky? 16:33 hmmmm i wonder if celeron has git commit -a -m ... on a "save" button in his code editor 16:33 sfan5 Krock: what you described happens when your browser doesn't send a Host: header 16:33 hmmmm lol 16:33 VanessaE celeron55: when I fly closer to those blue blocks, they turn into this: http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/screenshots/random/Screenshot_2015-11-09_11-33-19.png 16:34 VanessaE yellow block in the sky.. you mean the yellow/black striped thing? 16:34 celeron55 yes 16:34 VanessaE technic HV power cable 16:34 jin_xi nice to see the work on far terrain preview. currently huge generated structures are wasted because they never get fully loaded anyway 16:35 VanessaE goes to the nuke reactor back in the spawn area some 500m away or so 16:35 celeron55 is it just one node wide and high? 16:37 celeron55 is this world downloadable from somewhere, this seems like a suitably impossible exercise for this system 16:37 VanessaE it's a nodebox, 1x0.25x0.25 I think 16:37 VanessaE oh sure, but it's a HUGE download 16:37 VanessaE http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/worlds/Survival_World.tar.bz2 16:37 VanessaE about 10 GB 16:37 celeron55 umm... do we have a tool for cropping worlds 16:37 VanessaE nope 16:38 VanessaE closest would be worldedit, but it can only save small pieces (100 cube maybe) before it becomes unmanageable. 16:38 VanessaE if you want, go to digitalaudioconcepts.com port 30001 16:38 VanessaE turn on local map saving 16:40 Krock sfan5, are you sure? It sends the host header when I visit https://www.whatismybrowser.com 16:41 sfan5 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 16:41 sfan5 no idea whether thats actually the problem 16:41 sfan5 it's just something that will cause the same result 16:41 VanessaE celeron55: also, I take no responsibility if your CPU melts down :D 16:41 Krock Okay, thanks for the help anyway 16:42 Krock VanessaE, don't worry. He should use water to cool 16:42 VanessaE Krock: I only say that because that server has a history of stressing peoples' computers :D 16:43 Krock Lol okay :) 16:46 VanessaE well that's interesting. I just noticed that, mostly, the shapes of stuff in the farmesh stay put, but the *textures* change as I approach. this: http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/screenshots/random/Screenshot_2015-11-09_11-45-38.png versus this, when I fly jut a tad closer: http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/screenshots/random/Screenshot_2015-11-09_11-45-43.png 16:46 VanessaE just* 16:52 VanessaE god damn it my computer is on fire now. how did this shit happen? 16:52 VanessaE :) 16:56 celeron55 okay that's some kind of a mipmapping error 16:58 * Krock wonders why celeron55 is the only person I know who uses the 8) smiley 16:59 celeron55 maybe your GPU doesn't like the 4096x4096 texture atlases this thing uses... 16:59 VanessaE celeron55: possible; this is an R9 280x running the open source gallium driver 16:59 hmmmm doubleyou tee eff 16:59 hmmmm i'm not even sure what that's supposed to look like 8) 17:00 hmmmm anyway I thought node tile textures were supposed to be downscaled 17:04 VanessaE it looks like a lot of older hardware can only do 2048x2048 or smaller, though 17:08 celeron55 i hope i can get that information from irrlicht somehow 17:18 VanessaE celeron55: GL_MAX_TEXTURE_SIZE 17:18 VanessaE if you can read that var from wherever, there's your limit 17:18 VanessaE http://stackoverflow.com/questions/18674909/what-is-the-maximum-dimension-a-texture-atlas-should-have 17:20 VanessaE looks like if you split the texture atlas into multiple 2k x 2k chunks, it'll works pretty much everywhere 17:22 celeron55 but that will unnecessarily degrade performance where larger is supported 17:22 VanessaE true 17:22 celeron55 a lot 17:22 celeron55 rendering the far map on a high-end GPU is currently practically a completely free operation 17:22 celeron55 if you start doing stuff like that, soon it won't be 17:24 RealBadAngel with texture atlas you wont be able to get all the texture rotations 17:24 celeron55 ehm... or "high-end"; as if anything i have were high end 17:24 VanessaE RealBadAngel: in this case, it doesn't matter 17:24 celeron55 i just have some recent laptop GPUs 17:25 RealBadAngel either atlas or again copy rotated ones 17:25 RealBadAngel and "modifiers" 17:25 celeron55 thanks for reminding me why i hate to discuss anything with RBA 17:25 RealBadAngel lol 17:26 RealBadAngel i just highlighrted why atlas was off 17:26 celeron55 completely irrelevant complaints 17:26 RealBadAngel and i did that 17:26 RealBadAngel you want it back 17:26 celeron55 this will be three strikes and then kickban 17:26 RealBadAngel really? 17:27 celeron55 yes 17:27 RealBadAngel i dont care, bye 17:27 celeron55 some people are incompatible; we are 17:27 celeron55 i am learning to accept the fact 17:29 * RealBadAngel is waving from far away :P 17:30 VanessaE celeron55: http://sourceforge.net/p/irrlicht/patches/152/ 17:30 VanessaE looks like it IS possible to query irrlicht for max texture size. 17:30 celeron55 thought so; that's good 17:31 crazyR_ dont most games use an atlas of some sort anyway? 17:32 celeron55 yes; minetest used to use but then someone broke it and everyone were too lazy to fix it 17:32 celeron55 now i am using one for this FarMap thing because... well, everything should use one 17:32 crazyR_ lol, Well i gues someone need to fix it :/ 17:32 celeron55 it was fully removed 17:32 crazyR_ *hides* 17:33 VanessaE crazyR_: you just volunteered. :D 17:33 crazyR_ haha i wish im not that technically advanced or i really would have volunteered 17:33 crazyR_ *and then i would probably have regreted it afterward 17:34 crazyR_ *correction: not my area of expertise :D sounds better 17:41 RealBadAngel celeron55, with atlases u cant do reverse mapping of the texture, flipping it 17:41 RealBadAngel thats why we dropped it 17:41 hmmmm this new version of the atlas you have; I take it that it's been generalized this time around for farmap usage and regular node tiling usage? 17:41 hmmmm RealBadAngel: really? because I thought the reason why it got dropped was because it wasn't useful and it caused bugs 17:42 RealBadAngel no 17:42 RealBadAngel that was the main reason 17:42 hmmmm that's sort of a dumb reason 17:42 RealBadAngel not really 17:42 hmmmm at least, in theory, a texture atlas is a huge speedup 17:42 hmmmm not having to switch textures while drawing 17:42 RealBadAngel and memory eater 17:43 hmmmm that's why it was optional 17:43 hmmmm enable_texture_atlas 17:43 celeron55 these logging bugs really bother me right now 17:43 celeron55 i can't use infostream at all 17:43 celeron55 i have to use std::cout because otherwise i don't see the stuff i output 17:43 RealBadAngel that was not a big problem for 16px 17:43 celeron55 how can *this* be broken? 17:44 RealBadAngel but higher resolution tps? 17:44 hmmmm maybe you didn't set your logging level to "info"? 17:44 celeron55 i use --info 17:44 hmmmm yeah dunno. 17:44 celeron55 and expect to see everything on the terminal where i run the thing 17:44 hmmmm does it work if you set it to info in the config file? 17:44 celeron55 it isn't happening; i only see some info lines 17:44 hmmmm interesting 17:45 hmmmm ShadowNinja: it sounds like there's a big bug in logging 17:45 hmmmm hey, at least it's been cleaned up. 17:45 hmmmm that's what's truly important :-) 17:46 RealBadAngel celeron55, we both know we are incompatible, but im still here and will do my job. chill out. 17:46 RealBadAngel as i will 17:46 hmmmm RealBadAngel you spend 70% of your time on this channel talking about how people don't like you instead of talking about code 17:46 hmmmm seriously wtf 17:47 celeron55 that was the second strike, by the way 17:47 RealBadAngel hmmm, youre right, i should shut up and post links to code 17:47 celeron55 i am *not* joking 17:47 VanessaE RealBadAngel: the reason texture atlases were originally dropped was because there was no way for them to expand to handle large textures or large numbers of tiles. e.g. HDX32 on default game was enough to break it. 17:48 celeron55 i will be the RBA kick machine if that's where this is going 17:48 VanessaE and no one wanted to fix it. 17:48 VanessaE when it DID work, it worked perfectly fine as far as I could tell 17:49 RealBadAngel VanessaE, reason for atlases to drop was they were not working with 6d facedir 17:49 VanessaE no. 17:49 celeron55 i don't have an opinion on whether RBA can contribute, but i suggest not talking here 17:49 VanessaE they were dropped long before that. 17:49 RealBadAngel a bit after 6d facedir 17:50 celeron55 IIRC they were dropped after RBA failed to implement 6d facedir with them 17:50 RealBadAngel atlases was a blocker for 6d facedir code 17:50 celeron55 and frankly, it should have been possible 17:50 VanessaE the code might have been removed, but the use of them was dropped ages before. 17:50 celeron55 there's nothing that would have made it impossible 17:50 RealBadAngel celeron55, rolling over the texture, that was a blocker 17:51 VanessaE anyway c55 is right. less talk, more code :) 17:51 celeron55 i don't know what that even means 17:51 RealBadAngel if we have single one, we can reverse it 17:51 celeron55 now stop it 17:51 RealBadAngel in atlas we were at another texture simply 17:51 celeron55 ok; i have to kick you out 17:52 celeron55 that's a knockout 17:52 VanessaE celeron55: the texture-switching glitch actually looks more like some kind of off-by-1 error; I can't imagine 4096^2 being too big for my GPU (though it's surely possible) 17:52 VanessaE fwiw, it also switches if I just pan sideways a little, if I'm in *just* the right spot 17:53 VanessaE s/pan/yaw/ 17:53 celeron55 that's very characteristic of mipmaps 17:53 VanessaE hm, ok 18:43 celeron55 VanessaE: grep for 4096 in util/atlas.cpp and see if changing it fixes the problem 18:43 celeron55 wait 18:43 celeron55 there's no such number in there 18:44 celeron55 oh it's 2048 18:44 VanessaE well that ain't it, then :) 18:44 celeron55 well... you could still try 18:44 VanessaE sure. 18:44 celeron55 it's not like i know what the problem is anyway 18:47 VanessaE trying 1024.. 18:51 VanessaE nope. 18:51 VanessaE still the same textures-swapping-weirdly glitch 19:08 * VanessaE throws HDX256 at it, just for shits and grins :D 19:11 VanessaE well it works, and the glitch isn't any worse :) 19:11 VanessaE so that's a good sign 19:15 celeron55 yes the farmesh atlas is independent of original resolution; it always generates the atlas from low-resolution versions of textures it's always enough at that range 19:15 celeron55 +because 19:15 VanessaE right 19:17 VanessaE anyways, at far_map.cpp around like 547, I would recommend you filter-out plantlike, torchlike, and probably also signlike and anything else that's "thin" 19:18 VanessaE line* 19:18 celeron55 i'll get to it once i manage to get this otherwise working 19:18 VanessaE ok. 19:18 celeron55 this exploded at me when i tried to make an option so that i can disable the mapgen triggering from farmap requests 19:18 VanessaE damn it I wish I could read this better. 19:19 celeron55 and now i'm trying to get logging even remotely working so that i could see what is wrong 19:19 celeron55 because LOGGING IS BORKED 19:19 celeron55 this is stupid 19:24 kahrl_ I think dstream still works 19:24 kahrl_ I always use dstream so I never noticed that infostream and friends are now FUBAR 19:26 RealBadAngel im using dstream too for debug and output all the time 19:33 celeron55 ShadowNinja: holy shit wake up already 19:34 celeron55 ShadowNinja: my respect towards you is declining so fast after this particular utter fiasco that i don't even know what to say 19:38 hmmmm celeron is management material 19:39 hmmmm errr oops.... the correct quote is "celeron has upper management written all over him" 19:41 celeron55 what the fuck is the point of this rework even 19:41 celeron55 log.h and log.cpp is much larger for no good reason 19:41 celeron55 and there are more random classes 19:41 celeron55 and everything depends on miscellaneous things from the new versions for no reason 19:41 hmmmm he removed the "ugly C non-OOP interface" 19:42 celeron55 this is it; ShadowNinja is not allowed to commit anything anymore unless i review it 19:42 celeron55 this is utter junk 19:43 rubenwardy Who approved? 19:43 hmmmm here's the PR discussion: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/2628 19:43 rubenwardy hmmmm did 19:44 rubenwardy as far as I can see 19:44 hmmmm no definitely not 19:44 hmmmm PRs require more reviewers the larger they are 19:44 hmmmm there are others here 19:45 rubenwardy Must have been in IRC :P 19:45 hmmmm there was a lot of talk about this 19:45 hmmmm the main win was the addition of warningstream 19:46 celeron55 warningstream is a loss in my opinion; i intentionally left it out 19:46 celeron55 but it's a small problem compared to everything else that PR contains 19:46 hmmmm the rest... I was really neutral about but if a core developer wants to do that stuff who am I to say no exactly? 19:46 hmmmm I'm not the minetest boss or something 19:50 hmmmm in any case I feel like you would be way more productive if you channel the energy to fixing infostream instead of bitching 19:51 celeron55 i'm not going to fix that crap; i'm porting my old logging back 19:51 celeron55 at least i know how it works 19:54 hmmmm in any case I hope you now realize why I've become so anal about commit quality and usefulness 19:55 hmmmm here, it's not like i left my guard down or anything, i believe i did my due dilligence as a reviewer/approver 20:20 VanessaE celeron55: btw, once you sort out that glitch, might I recommend binding the farmesh to 'r' so that one can cycle between normal, normal w/farmesh, and all-range 20:31 crazyR_ ^ +1 20:31 RealBadAngel celeron55, https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/commit/059a8bb888b4096adeb21d504bcd303b96105e35#diff-f9ac0e5fb8fc639e1307b9e92244357bR649 20:31 RealBadAngel typo here? 20:39 celeron55 VanessaE: i like it that i can toggle farmap and all-range separately 20:40 celeron55 but dunno 20:40 celeron55 it's bindable to a separate key in case you didn't notice 20:58 celeron55 this logging thing is just pure what the fuck 20:58 celeron55 i replaced the class thing with the old implementation, and the problem still exists 20:58 nrzkt celeron55, did you look at the ncurses implementation ? i think your problem comes from here 21:01 celeron55 my branch does not contain it 21:11 celeron55 if i step with a debugger to the place where something should be printed to infostream and step through it, it generally seems to work 21:11 celeron55 but when i let it run freely, it never works after some time from startup 21:13 celeron55 this damned thing makes no sense at all; i even did a complete rebuild 21:14 celeron55 except that in one place where i tried, gdb wasn't even able to break at the infostream statement and acted like it didn't exist 21:18 hmmmm i hope you're compiling with -O0 21:19 celeron55 i guess -O1, so that can explain it not finding it; however everything is still weird 21:20 celeron55 ...i just checked my GCC version; it's 5.1.1 21:20 celeron55 is GCC 5 even stable yet 21:21 celeron55 i don't trust this 21:24 sofar it is 21:24 sofar (and I wouldn't either) 21:26 celeron55 with -O0 gdb acts exactly like with -O1, it seems 21:33 rubenwardy celeron55, segfault. Will rebuild in debug to see if I can get better info. 21:33 rubenwardy https://gist.github.com/rubenwardy/66875c356f0f2be9f252 21:34 hmmmm heh, not very helpful 21:34 rubenwardy Yeah 21:35 hmmmm reminds me of those new Windows 8 "Something happened" bluescreens 21:35 rubenwardy bt full in release build is useless 21:36 celeron55 now i recompiled with clang 3.7.0, and get pretty much the exact same behavior 21:38 celeron55 there is no conceivable way this could happen 21:38 celeron55 i need to throw my computer in the trash and become a farmerr 21:39 celeron55 -r 21:39 celeron55 logic has ended 21:41 celeron55 i guess clang++ is using the same libstdc++ though 21:41 celeron55 it could be shit 21:48 rubenwardy I can't see any difference in terms of view range with far map on and off 21:48 rubenwardy or FPS 21:49 rubenwardy wait 21:50 rubenwardy nevermind, it was because the areas weren't generated 21:53 celeron55 eh, i guess i'm taking the original minetest laptop to the rescue - it has debian; it will work unlke fedora 22 21:53 celeron55 maybe i'll be disappointed though 22:03 rubenwardy Weird color for a sea: https://cdn.pbrd.co/images/217avOR2.png 22:05 rubenwardy and weird blocks 22:23 celeron55 i think this behaves exactly the same on this gcc 4.9 -based build 22:24 celeron55 i'm going to give up on this and hope that this is reproducible and someone figures this out 22:43 VanessaE you can't give up :)