Time Nick Message 00:09 est31 hrmm, these rules are a bit outdated, and not like the current consensus: http://dev.minetest.net/Git_Guidelines 00:10 est31 We don't have this "subsystem maintainer" thing 00:10 est31 anymore 00:11 RealBadAngel we had it before? 00:12 est31 "You can push something to upstream [1] only if two members of the core team [2] or the subsystem maintainer agrees on it." 00:13 est31 I interpret that so that the subsystem maintainer can push commits without asking 00:13 est31 inside their subsystem 00:13 est31 whether its a small typo fix 00:13 est31 or a 100k line change 00:13 RealBadAngel well, paramat seems to be using it 00:14 est31 paramat, do you use it? 00:14 paramat use the rules? 00:14 est31 from how I see it, paramat always gets agreements from other core devs 00:15 paramat yeah mostly stick to those rules 00:15 RealBadAngel i can remember many times when paramat just informs that hes going to merge something 00:15 est31 usually when I look at the according PRs, they either have a +1 by kwolekr 00:15 est31 or they got it via IRC 00:16 RealBadAngel maybe, but as for me it seems like an easy way ;) 00:16 est31 also paramat is no maintainer 00:17 RealBadAngel but acts like one 00:17 est31 at least not in that table: http://dev.minetest.net/Organisation#Subsystems 00:17 paramat but sometimes if it's sortof trivial and within my own authority (mgv7 artistic stuff) and get no reviews i'll go ahead 00:18 paramat yeah i think i should be a 'deputy mapgen maintainer' there 00:18 RealBadAngel paramat, AV is more artistic stuff and yet i was always one to blame, stop and fuck around 00:18 est31 I have no problems with that but sometimes if it's sortof trivial and within my own authority (mgv7 artistic stuff) and get no reviews i'll go ahead 00:19 RealBadAngel and meanwhile you are making more and more controversial changes to the look of the game 00:19 paramat apparently i have part-authority over mgv7, biome api, but try to consult hmmmmm first 00:19 RealBadAngel that brighter grass just sucks big time 00:19 RealBadAngel theres no green in the game anymore 00:19 est31 I don't think we should have large code changes to be entered into git without approval from at least one other dev 00:19 est31 thats my main concern 00:20 est31 and the "who's to blame" thing isn't lived as well 00:20 paramat grass is much better but i'm still not totally happy with it 00:20 RealBadAngel thats what is called grass by now is just something iron washed 00:20 paramat i think the original texture is beyond repair 00:20 RealBadAngel its damn ugly 00:20 est31 almost half of the subsystem maintainers are mostly inactive right now 00:20 RealBadAngel no contrast at all 00:21 RealBadAngel paramat, your run into minimalism is not healthy for the look of the game 00:21 paramat the other game devs are busy, i do get approval from them 00:22 paramat i actually increased the contrast of grass 00:22 est31 RealBadAngel, I agree with your assesment the grass texture, but I've said I dont comment mtgame anymore 00:22 est31 insert "of" somewhere 00:22 RealBadAngel paramat, you have washed it out 00:22 RealBadAngel its not green anymore :P 00:22 paramat it's more classic minetest now, bright and attractive, matched to our previous texture in contrast, hue and brightness 00:23 RealBadAngel and its shit 00:23 RealBadAngel sorry, but true 00:23 paramat hmmmm and celeron couldn't stand the previous texture, rightly 00:23 est31 here we go 00:23 paramat =) 00:23 RealBadAngel celeron doesnt care anymore 00:23 * est31 gets a bag of chips 00:24 paramat i'm happy you don't like it, we have opposite tastes 00:24 RealBadAngel hmmm is flying around in his figthers 00:24 RealBadAngel you call them authorithies? 00:25 RealBadAngel they dont even play the fucking game at all 00:25 est31 *crunch* 00:26 RealBadAngel ask them when they have built something, walked a bit 00:26 paramat minetest and voxel games *are* minimalism, inherently 00:26 RealBadAngel they are not playing MT at all 00:26 RealBadAngel yes 00:27 RealBadAngel thats true, but some do like it nicer 00:27 RealBadAngel without losing voxel look 00:28 RealBadAngel ive managed to make default 16px look like next gen gfx, dont you think? 00:29 RealBadAngel none of voxel games around have such effects 00:29 paramat did you like the 0.4.9 grass? i tried to get it as close as possible. anyway i still don't like it 00:29 RealBadAngel youre an enemy of smooth lighting even 00:29 paramat no i like that now, and use it 00:30 RealBadAngel heh 00:30 RealBadAngel you didnt liked round minimap too:P 00:30 paramat i like that now too 00:30 VanessaE paramat: you like smooth lighting..you mean for the, like, two node types it actually works on? ;) 00:30 RealBadAngel i think i will give you some time to get used to relief mapping ;) 00:31 paramat but don't see the point of a map that shows what you can already see 00:31 est31 you dont have always fly 00:31 est31 and its cool 00:33 paramat it's fun for a few minutes, but i can't see the point, if it built up a map of a gaming session's journey that would be better 00:34 paramat sorry but i don't like parallax occlusion or bumpmapping, i find fake 3D effects ugly 00:35 RealBadAngel but some do 00:35 est31 they are better than gazillions of polygons 00:35 paramat yeah it's popular 00:35 est31 because this kills fps 00:35 RealBadAngel not all of us are using that intel gpu :P 00:36 RealBadAngel sorry i meant intel "gpu" ;) 00:36 RealBadAngel and smooth lighting for me is something different: http://i.imgur.com/T8wf2tp.png 00:37 RealBadAngel i could make this real long time ago and polish that with some help 00:38 paramat waving water has upper and lower surface bugs, and the motion of waving plants is poor quality, a single frequency smoothed triangle wave 00:38 RealBadAngel waving water is the thing to be removed 00:38 est31 lower? 00:38 paramat i would love realtime shadows though 00:38 est31 I only know upper 00:38 RealBadAngel it was jeija code 00:39 est31 I like waving water 00:39 paramat i seem to remember a lower surface problem 00:39 RealBadAngel when reflections and refractions will come waving water will become just outdated 00:39 est31 #3075 ? 00:39 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3075 -- [Bug] Interruption of water by waving water shader 00:40 RealBadAngel this code is not to be fixed just to removed imho 00:40 RealBadAngel same as finite liquids, another dead end 00:40 paramat well that issue is the upper, i seem to remember a lower surface bug .. ? 00:41 est31 finite liquids are no dead end 00:41 est31 their implementation was shit 00:41 est31 at least I've heard 00:41 est31 so they got removed 00:41 est31 but having finite liquids is important IMO 00:41 paramat okay shall we remove waving water or leave it to you? 00:41 est31 some games need it 00:41 RealBadAngel it was good enough 00:42 RealBadAngel at least it was working 00:42 RealBadAngel and then it was a good start to make it better 00:42 est31 I wont remove it 00:42 RealBadAngel now mt has lack of shit 00:42 RealBadAngel starved to death? ;) 00:43 RealBadAngel good way to fix things, shot down in the craddle ;) 00:44 RealBadAngel oops sooooooorry, i do remember better example of a feature murdered early 00:44 RealBadAngel circuits simulator 00:44 est31 all of those before my time 00:44 RealBadAngel redstone and red power 2 was two things that kept me playing mc for more than 2 years 00:45 RealBadAngel and mt team just spit on it 00:45 RealBadAngel not all are thinkin sandbox is about to put a dirt on another dirt :P 00:46 RealBadAngel if you do, then you are targeting kiddies :P 00:47 paramat RBA could you make a PR to remove waving water from MT? or should we do it? 00:48 RealBadAngel paramat, no problemo 00:48 est31 but why should we remove it 00:48 RealBadAngel because its ugly and obsolete 00:49 est31 why is it obsolete 00:49 est31 if we would remove all ugly things, we wouldnt have grass on dirt, and no iron or gold blocks 00:49 RealBadAngel geometry of the water surface will handle way better math than that 00:49 est31 RealBadAngel, thats all future 00:49 est31 first get a replacement up and running 00:49 RealBadAngel not really 00:49 est31 then lets talk about removing 00:49 est31 not the other way round 00:50 RealBadAngel heck, that code is here for half a year? 00:50 RealBadAngel or more? 00:50 RealBadAngel same for lava? 00:50 est31 where 00:50 RealBadAngel but masters of the universe dont like it :P 00:51 est31 ah that surface shader pr 00:51 est31 well, shrug, perhaps we should add it 00:51 RealBadAngel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sc3R16QASBY 00:51 est31 but removing options is stupid 00:51 RealBadAngel just an example, its tweakable 00:52 RealBadAngel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2x6w0wspmPo 00:52 est31 it still has that waving surface, no? 00:53 RealBadAngel no 00:53 RealBadAngel its bumpmapping 00:53 est31 no 00:53 RealBadAngel ouch, in this vid geometry is on 00:53 RealBadAngel sorry 00:55 RealBadAngel anyway, im aiming for this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkskiSza4p0 00:56 RealBadAngel the water you have saw in the first vid is using same math as in this one 00:56 RealBadAngel but had no reflections and refractions 00:57 RealBadAngel those were impossible to make without tangent space 00:59 RealBadAngel so i just tinted the water with a colour 01:01 RealBadAngel anyway, nowadays game without shaders is just a mistake, so i wont code any fallbacks anymore 01:02 RealBadAngel any candie from now on will require shaders in modern version 01:02 RealBadAngel and i wont care about standards from age of dinosaurs 01:03 hmmmm i thought you quit MT 01:03 RealBadAngel really? 01:04 RealBadAngel https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13094 01:04 RealBadAngel here you have something brand new ;) 01:06 RealBadAngel not to mention damn signs im workin on for two weeks or more already ;) 01:06 RealBadAngel and i thought they gonna take me day or two lol 01:11 est31 #3129 hmmmm might interest you 01:11 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3129 -- Hide minimap if it has been disabled by server by est31 01:11 hmmmm whoops 01:11 hmmmm looks good to me 01:12 est31 ok gonna merge it then 01:14 est31 but testing it first 01:16 RealBadAngel as for now it may work 01:16 RealBadAngel later on that should be just an minimap API function 01:16 RealBadAngel so lua mod can turn it on or off 01:17 est31 well, it has been a quick hack 01:17 RealBadAngel as for now its good enough 01:17 est31 nobody around that time liked my proper way of rolling it 01:17 RealBadAngel when api will come i will just use it 01:18 RealBadAngel i mean ability for example give that right to admin or a player who crafted and is wielding an item 01:18 est31 yeah, this works right now 01:19 est31 but they have to press f9 first 01:19 est31 I would have liked to avoid that 01:19 est31 with my approach 01:19 paramat RBA what do you think about removing the normalmap for treetops? a sawn log needs flat ends 01:19 RealBadAngel i will make them look more flat 01:20 RealBadAngel agree, theyre a bit too much bumped atm 01:20 paramat erm completely flat doesn't need a normalmap 01:20 est31 but we took the hack, because "oh no, its *another* extra packet just for minimap!", and "we are in a freeze, we cant add features" 01:20 est31 well, you can disable it, this is most important 01:20 RealBadAngel paramat, to fit the style they have to be bumped 01:20 est31 rest can come later, we agreed on this 01:20 RealBadAngel anything other will look like from another cartoon 01:21 RealBadAngel something just a bit softer would do i think 01:21 RealBadAngel est31, master branch is development branch 01:21 paramat naw, any relief is wrong and unnecessary graphics load 01:22 RealBadAngel paramat, zero displacement cost the same as max 01:22 paramat any tips for using the normalmap add-on in gimp? i noticed you use transparency, what does this control? 01:22 RealBadAngel forget gimp 01:23 RealBadAngel that plugin is unuseable 01:23 paramat i couldn't get enough 'depth' for the mortar of brick textures 01:23 RealBadAngel results are shit, our autogen is doing way better 01:23 RealBadAngel lemme find the link 01:24 RealBadAngel https://github.com/kmkolasinski/AwesomeBump 01:24 paramat if there is no normalmap, does MT fallback to flat or autogen? 01:24 RealBadAngel to autogen if its enabled 01:25 RealBadAngel if disabled to nothing, so flat 01:25 paramat 'generate normalmaps'? 01:25 RealBadAngel yes 01:25 paramat ah okay 01:25 RealBadAngel but theres something before 01:25 RealBadAngel override_normal.png 01:26 RealBadAngel if you put such file in any of your textures path it will just override anything else 01:27 RealBadAngel est31, ive found AB to be an ultimate tool for creating normal maps 01:27 RealBadAngel its simply awesome ;) 01:29 RealBadAngel paramat, https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8714 01:29 RealBadAngel i think that one (or one like that) should become default option 01:30 RealBadAngel using premade map is way less costly than autogen 01:30 RealBadAngel i like autogen code because its producing quite nice effects. but its absurdly costly, even for modern gpus 01:30 paramat and autogen creates incorrect relief too, working with pixel value 01:30 RealBadAngel ofc 01:31 RealBadAngel it cannot recognize shapes 01:31 RealBadAngel or know the meaning of areas 01:31 paramat yep so i agree 01:31 RealBadAngel thats why hand made map for bricks is better 01:31 paramat so, is parallax occlusion needed now there is superior bumpmapping? 01:32 RealBadAngel parallax occlusion is dead code too, its effectively replaced now with relief mapping 01:33 RealBadAngel bumpmapping on the other hand is totally different effect 01:33 RealBadAngel parallax and relief mapping are geometry effects 01:33 RealBadAngel bumpmapping is about light 01:34 RealBadAngel so you cannot say one is better than another 01:35 RealBadAngel you need both of them 01:35 paramat yeah. i guess our parallax occlusion works with autogen maps, can it use dedicated normalmaps? 01:35 RealBadAngel parallax mapping is flawed by its definition 01:36 RealBadAngel it was working ok with low heights and small angles 01:36 RealBadAngel was faster, thats for sure 01:36 RealBadAngel but artifacts produced by using by this method were unacceptable 01:37 RealBadAngel atm mt is defaulted to relief mapping, more costly but not for modern gpus 01:37 RealBadAngel they can do that meanwhile ;) 01:38 RealBadAngel and yes, parallax and relief mapping SHOULD use premade maps 01:39 RealBadAngel autogen is meant rather for shadows, read bumpmapping 01:39 RealBadAngel geting height from average color is wrong 01:39 RealBadAngel works for some nodes, quite nice but in general for those without a pattern 01:40 RealBadAngel if YOU know that brick should be higher than white mortar... well youre smarter ;) 01:40 RealBadAngel shader have no way even to examine whole image 01:41 RealBadAngel it works by sampling pixels around 01:44 RealBadAngel thats a main reason i started to make maps for the textures 01:44 RealBadAngel i wanted to make the look a bit softer, then make effect more visible 01:45 RealBadAngel but primarily i wanted to expose shapes 01:46 paramat so if autogen is heavy code perhaps it should be removed soon 01:46 RealBadAngel thats a goal 01:47 RealBadAngel but propably should be left just in case 01:47 RealBadAngel we cant support textures for all the mods out there 01:48 RealBadAngel but then, when we have all the basic textures it wont cause so much harm 01:48 RealBadAngel it will be just a fallback 01:48 RealBadAngel before i started to push maps it was a main feature 01:49 paramat ok 01:49 RealBadAngel with more and more maps rdy, it will be more like a fallback 01:51 RealBadAngel but anyway, have you watched closely Tiled texture pack screenshots? 01:53 RealBadAngel this approach, with one chosen map, can provide full relief mapping and bumpmapping experience while using just one texture 01:53 est hmmmm, can you look at it again, I've needed to pass a value to the game https://github.com/est31/minetest/commit/d285918598254b2daf7cd723b19cf5c5704dd5c7 01:53 RealBadAngel and thus, it shall be reconsidered to be main feature 01:54 RealBadAngel like "have it all with minimal price" 01:55 RealBadAngel personally i like the Lego version :) 01:55 RealBadAngel without Lego logo on it ofc ;) 01:56 RealBadAngel but dare to say that lego wont fit voxel worlds :) 01:56 paramat yep i looked. i actually love LEGO 01:56 RealBadAngel this map actually looks like lego brick 01:56 est but now hmmmm I've tested it, it works 01:56 RealBadAngel but doesnt have logo on it 01:57 RealBadAngel many cheap toys are using the same shape 01:57 est hmmmm, the pr is #3129 01:57 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3129 -- Hide minimap if it has been disabled by server by est31 01:57 est gtg 01:57 RealBadAngel so its like using wheel shape or something equally trivial 01:59 hmmmm yeah looks good again 01:59 hmmmm heh 01:59 RealBadAngel paramat, please do note that Tiled was made without displacement 01:59 hmmmm just remove the errorstream << "" 01:59 RealBadAngel its only bumpmapping 01:59 RealBadAngel so, if it was remade, effect would be for sure much nicer 01:59 RealBadAngel hmmmm, howdy 01:59 paramat ok 02:00 hmmmm est: sorry about the hackiness this requires, but it's a good way to make the minimap disable-able in my opinion, without cementing the interface in stone 02:00 hmmmm once there's a version release we need to maintain that backward compatibility 02:01 RealBadAngel hmmmm, apart from some server maintainers that funcionality is not atm needed, but that code will be useful for the API 02:02 RealBadAngel its completely client side feature. you can see the very same with your client camera 02:04 RealBadAngel times when one was playing Knight Lore and was drawing the map on a piece of paper are long gone, dont you think? 02:09 paramat hehe i played Knight Lore on my ZX Spectrum 02:11 RealBadAngel ZX was my first comp ever 02:12 RealBadAngel btw, have you saw it reborn? 02:13 RealBadAngel https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/sinclair-zx-spectrum-vega#/story 02:15 paramat yeah 02:17 RealBadAngel when they make it aviable i need to buy it definitely 02:17 hmmmm pass 02:17 RealBadAngel hmmmm, what? it doesnt fly or what? ;) 02:17 hmmmm it's yet another noname ARM quad core thing running a zx spectrum emulator on some type of linux 02:18 RealBadAngel you just dont get it :P 02:18 hmmmm i think what i'd be interested in is an actual ZX spectrum clone, with real hardware 02:18 RealBadAngel look at sam coupe hw then 02:19 RealBadAngel it has hdds, net, soundcards 02:21 RealBadAngel http://www.samcoupe.com/index.htm 02:21 RealBadAngel most powerfull 8bit machine ever 02:21 RealBadAngel and fully compatible with ZX 02:26 RealBadAngel i was looking for coupe in good condition, it costs about 500 pounds 02:29 RealBadAngel http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/301716981939?clk_rvr_id=892393478238&item=301716981939&lgeo=1&vectorid=229508&rmvSB=true 02:29 RealBadAngel wow, 749 02:35 RealBadAngel masterpiece 04:54 paramat now merging game#659 04:54 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/659 -- Default/trees: Add not-force-placed tree schematics grown from saplings by paramat 04:59 paramat complete 05:01 paramat next i will fix my mistake of acacia leaves not waving 05:14 paramat game#660 05:14 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/660 -- Default/nodes: Fix acacia leaves not waving by paramat 05:16 paramat now merging 05:19 paramat complete 05:28 paramat game#661 any comments? 05:28 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/661 -- Flowers don't wave 0/ 10:35 Megaf VanessaE:Are you still suffering with leaks? 10:35 Megaf Minetest client here will easily use all 4 GB of ram, with e erything turned off, opaque leaves, draw distance to 40 meters 10:40 T4im you can't compare client ram usage with server ram usage though 10:48 Megaf I'm not 10:55 T4im ah, pardon, thought you were talking about the recent lua out-of-memories she's experiencing :D 10:56 T4im which btw would be less of a problem from what I read earlier in lua5.2 again :/ that one makes an emergency garbage collection when allocation fails 10:56 T4im which at the very least would give the system a fighting chance in these scenarios 10:57 Calinou -ELUAJIT_DOES_NOT_WANT_5.2 10:57 Calinou sad but true 11:57 Megaf nrzkt: You there? 11:59 nrzkt here 11:59 Megaf Can you join #Minetest please? 12:00 Megaf is not about mt dev 14:21 RealBadAngel Megaf, whats your problem? 14:52 neoascetic hi all. someone please merge #3117 14:52 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3117 -- Fixes building on OSX caused by e4bff8b (refs #2613) by neoascetic 16:18 CraigyDavi We should really review the process of pull-request merging. Both in core and in minetest_game. Comments should be left on every pull request explaining what needs to be done for it to be accepted. e.g. - Tabs need to be converted to spaces and 1 more core developer needs to review this. It just gets frustrating for those who want to contribute and have their contributions left in a massive pile with no feedback. 16:19 CraigyDavi neoascetic, you have made a good point here https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3117#issuecomment-136096242 It shouldn't take 2 days after sometimes is fixed on an active project like this. 16:19 CraigyDavi 16:20 Calinou CONTRIBUTING.md can do this 16:20 Calinou we need one indeed 16:20 CraigyDavi We could use the GitHub API to automatically add 5 tick-boxes for the 5 requirements. They can then be ticked off by collaborators as outlined here http://dev.minetest.net/Merging_core_pull_requests_to_upstream 16:20 CraigyDavi Yes that's what we need 16:20 celeron55 we have this from the core developer perspective: http://dev.minetest.net/Git_Guidelines#Upstream_pull_requests_and_issues 16:21 celeron55 it's just that nothing forces anyone to look at any pull requests; if people regularly looked at them, those rules would already suffice 16:21 celeron55 and i do not think i can force anyone to do it 16:21 celeron55 nor can we as a team 16:22 celeron55 it's a motivation and time thing 16:23 CraigyDavi Well those are some good ideas outlined. but I think that there isn't really much motivation needed - the vast majority of pull requests can be reviewed in a matter of minutes. 16:24 celeron55 i can do one thing that will help in this: i can add motivated people to the core team 16:24 CraigyDavi So it's literally 5 minutes of reviewing 1-2 pull requests every 1-2 days by 2 people. Not too much to ask? :) 16:25 celeron55 (adding motivation to existing members is a bit difficult) 16:25 rubenwardy you should spend more than 5 minutes if it's non-trivial 16:26 CraigyDavi That might be a good idea if there are people who are aware of all the guidelines and can check that the contributions meet guidelines 16:28 celeron55 maybe CraigyDavi could be a contributor-focused member of the core team who would poke the people needed to review each new pull request? 8) 16:28 * celeron55 the lazy delegator 16:29 * celeron55 is aware that he is going to be poked too, though 16:30 CraigyDavi I'd be happy to be a poker if people can't poke themselves :) 16:30 celeron55 i'm not sure if this is a good idea, but i'm interested in trying and seeing and throwing it away if it isn't 16:31 celeron55 kahrl_, sfan5, nore, nrzkt, Tesseract: comments? 16:32 nore seems like a good idea to me 16:32 neoascetic let's strart with CONTRIBUTING.md? 16:32 CraigyDavi Neither am I, but at least a few changes need to be made to guidelines/CONTRIBUTING.md so people can be motivated to review a few things once every feww days 16:33 rubenwardy hmmmm and paramat (I think) started this thing of having review sessions once a week, don't know when the last one was. 16:34 rubenwardy Rebase needed can be removed from here: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1869 16:34 celeron55 CraigyDavi: you can propose any changes; just tell the details and we'll see 16:34 nrzkt i don't think it's necessary, i already look at the issues and comment it when i can comment it 16:35 celeron55 (of course no changes will be made if they're not actually necessary or the changes don't actually make sense) 16:37 neoascetic Ok, we have "High priority" labels at #3117 for 4 days and "Blocker" for 2 days. Does it work at all? 16:37 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3117 -- Fixes building on OSX caused by e4bff8b (refs #2613) by neoascetic 16:37 celeron55 i think all that is really needed right now for this to happen is that everyone who agrees to being poked by CraigyDavi in this experiment says to him that they want to be poked 16:37 celeron55 (otherwise some people might just get annoyed) 16:37 neoascetic This is a pretty trivial change and all tests passed. 16:38 * nore agrees 16:38 * celeron55 agrees (obviously) 16:39 neoascetic Okay, and I think it would be great to setup OSX testing. At least breaking changes wouldn't be applied then. I'll try to work on integration 16:41 celeron55 neoascetic: lol, those labels are ridiculous 16:44 celeron55 neoascetic: as i commented to it, it doesn't break OSX, but might break windows; be careful 16:45 CraigyDavi Ok, well my first poke goes to #3128 . Someone should re-run travis / find out why the before_install.sh doesn't work with the commit. 16:45 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3128 -- Minor tweaks __builtin:falling_node by Rui914 16:45 celeron55 CraigyDavi: you can't poke PRs, you have to poke people to make something happen :P 16:46 celeron55 or, well, what am i to say; maybe that's enough 16:46 CraigyDavi I would poke PilzAdam but he hasn't agreed 16:46 celeron55 (...and he's not here) 16:47 CraigyDavi So I'll poke you celeron55, re-run travis please :) 16:47 celeron55 i don't even know how travis works 16:48 rubenwardy you need to push a new commit 16:48 rubenwardy to that branch to trigger a rebuild 16:49 celeron55 tell that to Rui914, it's his branch 16:49 celeron55 or well i can 16:50 celeron55 or... what do we even do in a case like this 16:50 CraigyDavi celeron55, click restart build here: https://travis-ci.org/minetest/minetest/builds/78128090 16:50 celeron55 this is obviously fine, who cares about travis 16:51 celeron55 oh yes, looks like i can restart it 16:55 CraigyDavi I think there's a way on GitHub to poke teams in GitHub. Maybe they should be a want-to-be-poked team and then I or someone else can poke them using @minetest/want-to-be-poked 16:55 celeron55 but then it becomes spammy when you poke everyone and the list each person sees grows too long 16:55 CraigyDavi Fair enough 16:56 celeron55 the point really is for someone to act as the middle manager who's only job is to know who needs to see what 16:57 CraigyDavi Ok, well #3128 needs two +1's so I'll poke nore, celeron55 to both review it and comment is something needs changing 16:57 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3128 -- Minor tweaks __builtin:falling_node by Rui914 16:57 CraigyDavi Well 1, if you consider "Looks good" to be a +1 16:58 CraigyDavi Build passed on #3128. Needs reviewing. 16:58 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3128 -- Minor tweaks __builtin:falling_node by Rui914 16:59 celeron55 we consider "Looks good" to be equal to "+1" 16:59 celeron55 maybe we need a glossary of words :D 16:59 CraigyDavi Good idea 17:01 CraigyDavi Ok well I propose we add a CONTRIBUTING.md with this on it. http://dev.minetest.net/Category:Rules_and_Guidelines seems too much and we need to condense it into one place. Let's be honest - how many contributors have actually read through that? 17:02 CraigyDavi Also, CONTRIBUTING.md shows up a message whenever a PR/issue is made which hopefully means that more people will read it 17:02 celeron55 aw, shit; my local network setup is still broken in some way where minetest singleplayer cannot connect to itself 17:02 CraigyDavi The "glossary" could be added to that. 17:02 celeron55 i can't test anything without separately running a server and blarg 17:02 nore CraigyDavi: looks good 17:02 nore (for 3128) 17:03 celeron55 nore: test it and merge it then; i can't be bothered to fight with this 17:03 CraigyDavi Ok, two +1's that is. 17:03 celeron55 or, actually the network setup is probably fine, but MT can't handle a setup like this with multiple local interfaces where only one is localhost 17:03 * CraigyDavi pokes nore to test and merge 17:03 * nore will do that as soon as he has some more time :) 17:04 celeron55 well in that case i'll just use some hack in MT's network code... 17:05 est31 these points in here sound good : http://dev.minetest.net/Merging_core_pull_requests_to_upstream 17:05 est31 but the problem with them is that a core contributor always has to look at it 17:05 est31 and if you intently look at a pr, you also find out all "lower" points like indentation problems 17:06 est31 and I say "looks good", if I havent tested it 17:06 est31 and +1 is either "its so trivial i dont have to test it", or "I have tested it" 17:07 T4im and _not_ "I like it" 17:07 T4im I've had a fix for a vanilla-only crashing bug hang in _game for 3 months during which it also run on a production server (it also fixed 2 other annoying bugs in the process), and 2 core devs did look at that... it was apparently eventually merged in during some cleanup run by a third person... 17:07 est31 that as well of course too 17:07 CraigyDavi Ok, I propose that these terms get added to a contributing.md so we don't have different definitions of what "looks good" means. 17:08 est31 we should clean up the wiki as well though 17:08 celeron55 nore: you should comment in the actual PR though 17:08 celeron55 nore: that's a rule, and for a good reason 17:09 nore oh, sorry :/ 17:09 est31 and about #3128, I just dont think it needs much attention, because it seems to not fix anything, except perhaps break stuff 17:09 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3128 -- Minor tweaks __builtin:falling_node by Rui914 17:10 CraigyDavi Yes, the .md file can be a brief overview which can actually be read through within a few minutes. dev.minetest can be more in depth. 17:10 nore est31: it's mainly a cleanup 17:10 est31 CraigyDavi, good idea 17:12 est31 okay will merge #3128 then 17:12 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3128 -- Minor tweaks __builtin:falling_node by Rui914 17:12 est31 about #3123, do people have issues with it, can I merge it too? 17:12 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3123 -- Make example config more readable by beyondlimits 17:12 CraigyDavi Dare I say, I've never read through the contributing guidelines on the wiki even though I've contributed a bit to _game. I would, however, read through a short file when prompted from the GitHub editor. 17:13 CraigyDavi *GitHub issue editor 17:13 est31 yea, common things could be explained, like commits in present tense, or indentation with tabs 17:16 est31 and about pr merging rules, I'd like to see two core devs (submitter inclusive) for small to medium sized PRs, and three core devs (submitter inclusive) for large PRs 17:17 est31 the "two devs to agree on a pull" rule has been interpreted differently in the past 17:17 est31 either "submitter inclusive" or "submitter doesnt count" 17:17 celeron55 it has always meant "submitter inclusive" when i have written or said it 17:18 celeron55 but submitters sometimes want more reviews than just one in addition to themselves 17:19 celeron55 i mean, of course that only is relevant if the submitter is a core developer 17:20 est31 yea 17:22 est31 and about things like #2997, I really am not sure if this is the way it should be done 17:23 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2997 -- Small improvements settings for Android by MoNTE48 17:23 est31 with tons of #ifdef __ANDROID__ 17:24 est31 about #3109 there the core dev team doesn't have one opinion 17:24 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3109 -- Add of liquid top tile to the mesh when waving shader is enabled by Rui914 17:24 est31 and I dont really know the code there 17:25 est31 #3108 needs testing 17:25 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3108 -- Use CUSTOM_LOCALEDIR if specified by ShadowNinja 17:25 est31 #3104 can be looked at by other devs 17:25 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3104 -- FindJson: use PATH_SUFFIXES jsoncpp to find incdir by ignatenkobrain 17:25 est31 its a patch needed by fedora 17:27 CraigyDavi celeron55, can you +1 #3123 ? 17:27 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3123 -- Make example config more readable by beyondlimits 17:27 est31 https://apps.fedoraproject.org/packages/minetest/sources/patches/ 17:38 sfan5 celeron55: +1 from me 17:39 est31 sfan5, ?? 17:40 celeron55 lol 17:51 est31 I've meant which pr have you +1ed? 17:55 neoascetic celeron55 about your note on #3117 17:55 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3117 -- Fixes building on OSX caused by e4bff8b (refs #2613) by neoascetic 17:56 neoascetic There already is _WIN32_WINNT 0x0501 defining and windows.h inclusion a few lines below 17:56 neoascetic I guess this stuff need to be refactored 17:57 neoascetic So my changes doesn't break anything. Am I right? 17:57 celeron55 well my point is, make sure all the windows defines and includes happen in the correct order, and happen to begin with 17:57 celeron55 you might not break OSX but by moving them around you might break some obscure windows set-up 17:58 est31 AFAI can remember the windows API, you define stuff like _WIN32_WINNT 0x0501 before including headers 17:58 est31 its like a variable, used by the included header 17:58 est31 to determine which API to use 17:58 neoascetic And it is already defined at line 31! 17:58 neoascetic So that define is dead code, as I guess 17:59 celeron55 then remove it from the other place 17:59 est31 yea 17:59 neoascetic Ok 17:59 est31 but still its best to have it tested on windows, from krock 18:00 est31 if it builds for krock there is no guarantee it works on all obscure windows setups, but we know it works at least on one :) 18:01 celeron55 travis already builds on windows 18:01 est31 no 18:01 celeron55 well not on MSVC 18:01 est31 travis does cross compile 18:01 neoascetic It's not haskell code anyway ;) 18:03 est31 https://github.com/travis-ci/travis-ci/issues/216 18:04 est31 travis does have native os X builders 18:04 est31 but AFAIK they are heavily limited 18:04 est31 and need manual approve by travis team 18:04 est31 approval* 18:07 est31 @ least it was that way last time I've heard about it 18:07 neoascetic Yes, if you are talking about multisystem builds 18:07 neoascetic Windows still unsupported afaik 18:08 neoascetic but I am always use osx via travis, so it is possible 18:09 est31 I'd agree to travis PR builds of minetest 18:10 est31 neoascetic, can you try to make a PR? 18:11 neoascetic est31 what are you talking about exactly? 18:11 neoascetic celeron55 I've done with changes in the PR 18:12 est31 neoascetic, you want CI builds for mac, no? 18:12 neoascetic yeah, but this is not simple. I'll try 18:13 neoascetic And I am not sure if it is legal ;) 18:13 sfan5 est31: he asked 2 hours ago 18:13 sfan5 so well 18:13 sfan5 i thought it was still at least a little relevant 18:14 sfan5 oh which pr 18:14 est31 yea 18:14 sfan5 est31: this 18:14 sfan5 kahr​l_, sfan5, nor​e, nr​zkt, Tes​seract: comments? 18:15 est31 you mean this then: maybe CraigyDavi could be a contributor-focused member of the core team who would poke the people needed to review each new pull request? 8) 18:15 sfan5 yes 18:15 sfan5 or generally adding motivated people to the coredev team 18:16 est31 well, they need at least some knowledge of the engine's c++ code 18:20 est31 oh, rubenwardy and Calinou are core devs now? 18:21 rubenwardy no, we're website maintainers 18:21 est31 https://github.com/orgs/minetest/people 18:21 rubenwardy we have access to minetest.github.io but not to minetest 18:21 rubenwardy see teams 18:21 est31 https://github.com/orgs/minetest/teams/team-minetest 18:21 rubenwardy https://github.com/orgs/minetest/teams 18:21 rubenwardy yeah 18:21 rubenwardy inb4 18:21 est31 ok 18:22 est31 thats good 18:22 rubenwardy I don't have the C++ or core Minetest experience to be a core dev 18:23 est31 perhaps we can have a second "website maintainers" team? 18:24 rubenwardy you mean like https://github.com/orgs/minetest/teams/minetest-website-team 18:25 est31 yup 18:25 est31 for website maintainers who arent core devs 18:26 rubenwardy ... 18:26 rubenwardy that's what it is 18:26 est31 well, the question is whether to include core devs or not 18:27 rubenwardy core devs can access all repos 18:27 rubenwardy people in the website team are limited to just the website 18:27 est31 okay 18:43 Tesseract Pushing this is a minute (#2744 with some modifications): http://ix.io/kzG/diff 18:46 rubenwardy #2744 18:46 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2744 -- Enable server when not building client by SmallJoker 18:47 est31 Tesseract, wait 18:47 est31 can it be made in a way so that you get notified every time? 18:47 est31 e.g. setting BUILD_SERVER without saving it? 18:48 Tesseract est31: Nop.e 18:48 rubenwardy MESSAGE? 18:49 est31 looking into the docs now 18:49 Tesseract est31: I don't think that's wanted anyway. 18:50 Tesseract rubenwardy: ? 18:50 rubenwardy nvm 18:50 est31 Tesseract, what's wanted is to build the server when not enabling it 18:50 est31 but it seems it doesnt save it 18:51 est31 hrmm no it does save it 18:51 est31 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/CMakeLists.txt#L42 18:52 est31 well either way, go on with the merge, fine for me 18:53 est31 the curl warning commit is ok as well 19:13 paramat hi nore sfan5 game#651 is ready for whenever you have time to check it. a much-improved fire mod 19:13 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/651 -- Fire: Move flame extinguishing to separate faster ABM by paramat 19:14 est31 @ all core devs, I can make you owner for the minetest weblate project, just create an account (you can also log in via github), and provide me with a https://hosted.weblate.org/user/$username url 19:14 est31 e.g. https://hosted.weblate.org/user/est31/ 19:30 est31 I'll write in the wiki how I merge translations. 19:53 nrzkt since the irrlicht 1.8.2 upgrade on archlinux minetest doesn't work anymore 19:54 est31 http://dev.minetest.net/Translation#How_to_merge_translations_from_hosted_weblate 19:54 est31 ? 20:04 Tesseract nrzkt: SIGSEGV in std::less, or is this a different error I'm seeing? 20:05 nrzkt yes i saw same error Tesseract 20:06 nrzkt the problem is solved now, i recompiled MT... but it's not good for the distro 20:06 nrzkt distro need 0.4.13 compiled with irrlicht 1.8.2 to work 20:32 Tesseract nrzkt: How'd you fix it? 20:34 nrzkt the client only works with 1.8.1 20:34 nrzkt if i upgrade to 1.8.2 crash 20:34 nrzkt and the server works with both but needs to be recompiled as it seems 20:34 nrzkt http://seblu.net/a/arm/week/community/os/x86_64/ 20:34 nrzkt you can find it here, on the rollback machine for arch 20:35 nrzkt http://seblu.net/a/arm/week/community/os/x86_64/irrlicht-1.8.1-2-x86_64.pkg.tar.xz 20:41 Tesseract But we're going to have to actually fix this eventually. 20:41 Tesseract It looks like an error in my libc++ to me though. 20:44 nrzkt yes, i have the same problem 20:44 nrzkt but rollbacking glibc doesn't fix the problem, only rollbacking irrlicht 20:45 nrzkt if you look at gdb backtrace you will see some std::maps with stupid content, i noticed that i see a Python Value Error exception in it... 20:45 nrzkt read memory is not process memory 22:40 paramat any comments for changing to multiple-flower textures? https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/661#issuecomment-136646600 this would allow us to make flowers 'waving = 1' 23:11 VanessaE I kinda like those. 23:14 VanessaE the colors of the flower tops are a little too muted though 23:40 est31 gonna push #3131 and https://github.com/est31/minetest/commit/94961b3364f76d5861913af321e9be6200d080b3 23:40 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3131 -- Add two missing directories to doxygen by nerzhul 23:40 est31 in 20 mins 23:40 est31 (also deleting the Doxyfix branch nrz created in accident)