Time Nick Message 00:01 RealBadAngel we shall add to supress deprecated warnings 00:01 RealBadAngel a setting 00:01 est31 ? 00:01 RealBadAngel irrlicht has a shitload of that 00:02 RealBadAngel compiling minetest produces like 40 warnings that something in irrlicht is deprecated 00:02 est31 I see 00:03 RealBadAngel ‘virtual const c8* irr::scene::IBoneSceneNode::getBoneName() const’ is deprecated [-Wdeprecated-declarations] 00:03 RealBadAngel } 00:03 RealBadAngel ^ 00:03 est31 what do you compile with? irrlicht 1.9? 00:03 RealBadAngel 1.8 i think 00:03 RealBadAngel gcc 5.1 00:03 est31 hrmm, I dont get those 00:04 RealBadAngel your compiler is older 00:04 est31 yours has colors, no? 00:04 est31 really cool 00:04 RealBadAngel its c++11 00:04 est31 I do have a c++11 compiler too 00:05 RealBadAngel since when mt moved to 11? ;) 00:05 est31 well you can compile minetest with the strict setting to be c++11 I guess 00:06 est31 but you also can compile with the previous c++ version 00:06 est31 the arguments against requiring c++11 are still the same 00:07 est31 c++11 isn't that much better than previous versions that we do have to switch immediately 00:07 est31 also many devs of minetest can't even compile minetest anymore if it uses c++11 00:08 est31 because they use old distros thus old compilers 00:09 RealBadAngel its a bit of pain in the ass to get c++11 working 00:09 RealBadAngel but hey, only devs should do that ;) 00:10 RealBadAngel on the other hand we could get rid of idiots compiling hacked clients that way 00:10 est31 hah 00:10 RealBadAngel because they would propably fail setting up env ;) 00:11 est31 it will harm development more than preventing those bad people from cheating 00:11 est31 because people need build envs for development too 00:11 RealBadAngel i know, im joking 00:11 RealBadAngel but that will happen sooner or later 00:12 est31 yes, c++11 can be used one day, just not now. 00:12 RealBadAngel since im targeting now modern boxes i want to use modern stuff 00:13 est31 in your fork? 00:13 RealBadAngel yes 00:13 RealBadAngel atm im fixing little things, adding content 00:14 est31 whats the state of the pr? 00:14 RealBadAngel compiled i think, need to test it ;) 00:15 RealBadAngel nah 00:15 RealBadAngel too much virtual shit around 00:15 RealBadAngel i hate that 00:15 est31 "virtual" shit? 00:16 RealBadAngel i hate that function is declared in like 10 places 00:16 RealBadAngel but only one is real 00:16 RealBadAngel virtual shit 00:20 RealBadAngel you need code for somethin you make it doing exactly what it should do, not make it aviable in some weird way for martians and other creaturs 00:23 RealBadAngel but thats only my personal opinion 00:31 RealBadAngel est31, pushed but thats need to be compiled on mt side too 00:32 RealBadAngel please try it, im compiling it too 00:40 RealBadAngel est31, compiled, verified, squashed 00:40 RealBadAngel try the PR again and it should be good to go 00:43 est31 perhaps a more suiting commit message? 00:50 RealBadAngel feel free to suggest one ;) 00:51 est31 its mostly ok 00:51 est31 perhaps it should be left this way 00:51 RealBadAngel does it work ok for you? 00:53 est31 yes 00:56 * RealBadAngel cries... hate trashing such nice code.... ;) 00:57 RealBadAngel but it will be back :P 01:05 est31 lets merge the pr 01:06 RealBadAngel ok 01:07 est31 merged 01:07 est31 paramat disappeared without releasing 01:07 est31 not very good 01:09 RealBadAngel he will be back in the morning for sure 01:10 est31 so the bug got fixed, we can release the engine then. 01:10 est31 last call, hmmmm, others. 01:10 est31 at the end of this hour I release 01:10 est31 (the engine) 01:11 RealBadAngel i could find you a bug if you wish to delay it ;) 01:11 est31 perhaps expressed it wrongly, I'll push the version bump commits 01:12 RealBadAngel really dont want new bug report? ;) 01:15 RealBadAngel meanwhile im watchin my crops growing :) https://imgrush.com/5IG629cug_-c.png 01:16 est31 you want to release this as mod? nice 01:17 RealBadAngel it could be backported as a mod, this is going to be core feature 01:17 est31 well, I'm against having it inside minetest_game 01:17 kahrl RealBadAngel: I think it was incorrect to remove these lines: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3079/files#diff-f44f50a96d13d2421bd5301b7511ee26L257 01:18 kahrl what was the reasoning behind removing them? 01:18 RealBadAngel correct 01:18 RealBadAngel without displacement theres no point to care about tiling 01:18 kahrl there is 01:18 RealBadAngel explain 01:19 kahrl there's a couple of things in the fixed pipeline that care about it, e.g. bi/trilinear filters and maybe fsaa 01:19 kahrl try this: disable shaders, enable bilinear filtering and look at a dirt_with_grass node 01:19 kahrl you'll see a small green line at the bottom (with the default texture pack) 01:19 RealBadAngel aw shit 01:20 RealBadAngel that filter things are real pain in the ass 01:21 RealBadAngel btw, est31 you wanted that or not, i just recalled that 3rd person view is fucked up 01:21 RealBadAngel with the same fsaa stuff 01:21 est31 why is 3rd person view fucked up? 01:22 RealBadAngel fsaa is causing the same glitch with texures as with plants and the grass 01:23 est31 oh 01:23 est31 so kahrl RealBadAngel what do you both want to do about that code? 01:23 est31 PR? 01:24 RealBadAngel reset the master now 01:24 RealBadAngel i will update my PR 01:24 est31 no, just make a new one 01:25 RealBadAngel no point to make a mess 01:25 est31 resetting master is a mess 01:26 RealBadAngel as you want, i was reseting it already and nothing bad happened ;) 01:26 est31 there is a 10 minute limit 01:26 RealBadAngel check it then 01:28 est31 I've pushed your commit 45 minutes ago 01:28 RealBadAngel ok, so i will make a new pr 01:32 RealBadAngel kahrl, sorry i had no idea that code intended for shaders only is fixing issues without them too 01:40 RealBadAngel est31, #3082 01:40 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3082 -- Quick fix - tileable flags are needed also without shaders because of… by RealBadAngel 01:43 est31 thanks 02:02 est31 okay, next try with the version bump commits 02:04 est31 we only have to wait for paramat and after he has pushed the 0.4.13 tag to mtgame, the builders. 02:04 est31 ~tell paramat can you make the mtgame release? It would be needed to complete the 0.4.13 release process 02:04 ShadowBot est31: O.K. 02:05 est31 after that we push the 0.4.13 tag to the engine 02:05 est31 and ask the builders to upload the binaries 02:05 est31 err other way round 02:06 hmmmm clap clap clap 02:11 est31 I hope now everybody is happy 02:11 est31 or at least not super angry :) 02:13 paramat yeah mtgame ready in 1-2 hours 02:15 paramat i'm currently testing my changes to fire mod in worst case scenario, a dense pine forest, turns out my changes weren't even remotely extreme enough. need to eat something then will merge the fire PR in 1 hour 02:15 paramat then the tag can be done 02:16 est31 btw, I dont think that fire should be tamed too much 02:16 est31 fire is extremely dangerous, perhaps it shouldnt be enabled by default outside of singleplayer 02:17 est31 but for faking fire there are mods 02:17 paramat it won't be too tame, during my last test it was still very difficult to contain 02:18 paramat after release it needs work, and firelike drawtype has too much effect on FPS 02:18 est31 containing burning forests as a single person is almost undoable in real life too 02:18 paramat currently, despite a recent increase in intervals, fire is still totally insane 02:18 paramat yeah 02:19 est31 well, this is a sandbox 02:19 est31 you can die in it too 02:20 est31 you can only prevent death, not react after you are hit lethally 02:21 est31 if you find an mtgame dev who shares your opinion, go on 02:31 est31 instead of making fire completely harmless, you could perhaps make it be extinguished by snow too 02:31 est31 that would be an actually logical change 02:31 est31 (and to disable fire by default outside singleplayer) 02:33 est31 also a fire that spreads fast and burns fast is better than one that spreads slowly and burns slowly, as the abm will be called even more often 02:34 est31 better have a lag thats short, than one thats long 02:34 est31 02:35 * est31 feels to be too involved in mtgame development, but he likes a hard game more than an overly easy game. 02:36 est31 I don't build large or connected wood buildings on servers which I know have the fire mod 02:39 est31 whats the point in fire spreading anyway 02:40 est31 its just a feature for griefers, nothing more 02:40 est31 things should burn adjacent to lava, nothing more 02:41 est31 some people do have fun with burning down stuff, but they are few, and you can expect them to turn on a setting 02:42 est31 but they should get the full blast IMO and not something artificially trimmed down. 02:49 paramat right, now i'll update and merge the final PR 02:51 paramat i tuned values that make fire spread natural and realistic, not too fast, not slow, still very difficult and a complete panic to try and contain 02:52 paramat since the ABM chances are much lower than before the lua load will be much lower 02:53 paramat then i'll spend time tuning after release, for now these values are reasonable and good enough 03:07 paramat now pushing game 640 03:13 paramat merge complete. now a final test before tagging.. 03:26 paramat seems okay, i guess someone checked the tilable flags? bumpmapped grass looks okay to me 03:34 paramat would anyone like to tag mtgame? i still need to learn how to do this, that will take some time and i'd rather not screw this release up 03:49 paramat i disappeared earlier because i was working on the final PR and didn't want distraction =) 04:05 paramat i agree parallax occlusion should be removed, to me it looks not good 04:06 est31 paramat, tagged 04:07 paramat woohoo thanks 04:07 est31 also, the discussion was about renaming the setting I think 04:07 est31 not removing it 04:07 est31 great, now the code side for 0.4.13 is ready! 04:07 est31 sfan5, you are free to make builds now 04:08 est31 writing an email for blockmen 04:12 est31 wow fire has almost been disabled 04:13 VanessaE you want a really good test, try fire on a plantlife-modpack-enabled world 04:13 VanessaE I understand it's a real bitch to contain a fire there 04:13 VanessaE (even moreso than in a forest) 04:17 est31 prevent it, dont contain it 04:17 est31 but well, I dont get involved too much in mtgame development 04:19 VanessaE well I only say that because a while back I had someone hocking mir a chinik about how fast a fire spreads among those plants, and insisting in particular that I make them non-flammable. 04:19 est31 "hocking mir a chinik"? 04:20 VanessaE rough transliteration, a Yiddish phrase more or less meaning "annoying endlessly" 04:20 est31 can anybody answer my question 04:20 est31 whats the actual benefit of having fire 04:20 est31 except for griefers 04:20 VanessaE frankly, I see no benefit, which is why I remove it from my own game 04:20 VanessaE *but* 04:20 VanessaE this is mt_game and I know at least a couple mods rely on it if only for the texture 04:21 VanessaE plus of course some kind of "ultra-survival in a wasteland" type of game will need it 04:21 paramat fire spread starts slow but soon picks up speed after a few minutes as it exponentially multiplies 04:22 est31 fast enough for griefers to grief your house while you are away 04:22 est31 they place a lava bucket just outside of protection 04:22 est31 it flows next to the house 04:22 est31 bam, the house catches fire 04:25 paramat fire mod as it was, was almost unusable anywhere near a dense forest. it wasn't tuned very well 04:26 est31 what do you mean with usable 04:27 est31 whats the "use" of fire 04:27 VanessaE in mt_game, none. 04:27 est31 why has it been added the first place 04:27 est31 lets remove it 04:28 VanessaE that "ultra survival" idea comes from some MC mod I saw a video of once 04:28 est31 well, they can implement fire themselves 04:28 est31 we dont have corium either 04:28 est31 nor DBAN 04:28 VanessaE DBAN? 04:28 est31 http://www.dban.org/ 04:28 paramat what's great is that with this initial tuning the ABM lua load will be reduced to less than 1/8th 04:29 est31 erm, no? 04:29 est31 yes it spreads more slowly 04:29 VanessaE I'd say keep the fire mod but disable it by defaulty 04:29 VanessaE -y 04:29 VanessaE don't force modders to re-implement it 04:30 VanessaE (in fact it already IS disabled by default isn't it?) 04:30 est31 but the actual burned cpu time needed for one tree to burn down remains the same 04:30 est31 no it is enabled by default 04:30 est31 @ least in singleplayer 04:30 est31 dunno bout multiplayer 04:30 VanessaE hm, ok 04:32 paramat what i mean is, the lua load is determined by the chance parameter. the intervals are roughly unchanged, but now, each interval, 8-16 times fewer nodes are processed 04:34 est31 well yeah, but for getting to every burnable node in a tree, you need the same number of neighbour spread calls 04:34 est31 whether they are executed all 5 seconds or randomly averaging once a minute is irrelevant 04:35 est31 this does reduce spikes 04:35 est31 but doesnt remove the actual load 04:36 est31 the only reduced load I can see here is the abm being disabled 04:37 est31 also, where was the approval from other devs for pushing that commit? 04:38 paramat ah yes load is spread out, guess i mean load rate 04:38 paramat earlier in IRC 04:38 est31 who 04:39 est31 ah i see 04:39 est31 ok then 04:41 est31 paramat, do you think fire should be kept around? and why 04:42 paramat so essentially the effect and lag on the lua server will be much lower, which was a big problem 04:43 paramat erm i like it, but it needs work 04:43 est31 what do you like about fire? 04:43 est31 are you a griefer? 04:43 hmmmm hopefully fire can be done better with client side modding 04:43 paramat hehe 04:44 est31 but why do we need fire 04:44 hmmmm you remember when I added auras to light sources? 04:44 paramat but on a server with many kids, i can understand it being disabled 04:44 est31 the only use case I see is griefing 04:44 est31 and having fun watching forests burn down in singleplayer 04:44 est31 the latter is ruined by the commit 04:44 hmmmm well that sorta thing where you'd be able to add some effect at position X will be possible for all sorts of things, fire animations included 04:45 hmmmm so fire would be an object at some location, not an actual node 04:46 est31 I dont see how that makes it better 04:46 est31 also fire destroys things, you cant let clients edit the map as they wish 04:47 est31 fire is the "super griefer tool" 04:47 est31 its pointless 04:48 hmmmm well, why does minecraft have fire then? 04:48 est31 are we a copy of minecraft 04:48 hmmmm no 04:48 hmmmm i'm just saying if it's pointless, why do other games have it 04:48 hmmmm because it adds an element of fun 04:48 est31 paramat uses "its looks less like minecraft" as a reason for his texture changes 04:48 est31 hmmmm, so we allow griefing? 04:49 est31 "because its fun"? 04:49 hmmmm this is a red herring 04:49 hmmmm if you're a server administrator you can remove the fire mod. plain and simple. 04:49 est31 I guess for the griefer its great fun 04:49 est31 or add it 04:49 est31 if you want it 04:49 est31 why should we give server admins features they dont need 04:49 hmmmm ugh 04:50 hmmmm i'm not arguing about something like this 04:50 paramat even without a use, it's a fundamental thing, one of the 4 elements, and rather satisfying to watch and listen to 04:50 est31 we dont even have carts in minetest_game 04:50 hmmmm maybe there should be 04:50 est31 and why, because they are slow 04:50 est31 and horrible 04:50 est31 fire is horrible too 04:50 VanessaE because they're glitchy as fuck 04:50 VanessaE no offense to PA 04:52 est31 paramat, you just made playing with fire boring as hell 04:52 est31 just pur some buckets of water over it, done 04:52 est31 you need to sit there for ten minutes, until the fire spreads to more than three pine trees 04:53 est31 well I really shouldnt look at mtgame anymore 04:53 est31 too much things broken the last time. 04:53 est31 many things done well, yes 04:53 est31 but many things done wrong imo. 04:53 est31 I'll focus engine development 04:54 est31 with* 05:07 VanessaE one thing I *would* like to see is a way to turn off creation of apple trees (from saplings and mapgen) without having to edit the code 05:08 VanessaE i.e. a config setting somewhere 05:08 VanessaE less for me to maintain in my game ;) 05:13 paramat not enough demand for a config, but can be done in mgv5/mgv7 by clearing registered decorations and re-registering them with appletrees removed 05:14 paramat mgv6 is rather hardcoded 05:14 hmmmm VanessaE, you can do that right now 05:15 hmmmm have a look at mgv6_np_apple_trees 05:16 paramat ah yes, depends whether you mean disable all small trees or just the ones with apples 05:16 hmmmm you can do both 05:16 hmmmm mgv6_np_trees 05:19 paramat the trees noise affects jungle and pine trees too though 05:20 hmmmm ah oh well 05:20 hmmmm mgv6 is simply not designed for this level of customizability 05:22 VanessaE hmmmm: pretty sure that doesn't affect trees spawned from saplings 05:22 VanessaE (I already do that for mapgen) 05:23 hmmmm do saplings spawn into schematics these days? 05:23 hmmmm i am not really up to date about mtgame anymore 05:24 VanessaE not sure. 05:24 paramat yeah a sapling now detects the mapgen and places a schematic in mgv5/mgv7 05:25 paramat ..or the classic design in mgv6 05:27 hmmmm is there any reason for this fragmentation? 05:29 paramat yes the mgv6 tree designs cannot be replicated by a schematic 05:29 hmmmm why is that 05:31 paramat schematics have per-node randomness, mgv6 trees are hardcoded routines with randomness acting on collections of nodes 05:31 paramat plus other stuff schematics can't do 05:31 hmmmm like what do you mean 05:31 paramat that's why mgv5/mgv7 trees have a different design 05:33 hmmmm maybe it's just me but i can't see why you shouldn't be able to make mgv6 trees with schematics 05:33 paramat mgv6 appletrees have randomly placed 2^3 cubes of nodes 05:34 hmmmm oh i see it 05:34 hmmmm don't you mean 2^2? 05:34 paramat so similar is the best schematics can do 05:35 VanessaE is anyone gonna actually *care* if the trees look a little different? 05:35 paramat no 3D, 2x2x2 nodes 05:35 hmmmm er 05:35 hmmmm yeah 05:35 hmmmm I don't know how I would make schematics do that 05:35 hmmmm it sounds like crazy feature creep 05:36 paramat i care. it feels like mgv6 should retain it's design character 05:36 hmmmm which kind do you personally like better 05:37 paramat i even felt bad making snowbiomes default, but popular demand.. 05:37 paramat erm, my new designs 05:37 paramat in isolation 05:37 paramat wouldn't want them in mgv6 05:37 hmmmm mgv6 is only preserved for reverse compatibility 05:38 hmmmm it's not like mgv6's design is sacred; in many ways it's inferior to v5 05:38 hmmmm i'll admit it does a great job for 2d noise only 05:43 paramat well perhaps we could have a mgv6 version 2 that keeps the terrain shape (without mudflow to enable custom higher terrain) but in all other ways works like mgv5/mgv7, new tree designs, biome API etc 05:45 paramat i could put that together quick and easy 05:46 hmmmm eh 05:46 hmmmm it's easy but messy 05:46 VanessaE something I'd love to see is a way to change the mapgen on a world, start a new 'city' somewhere in not-yet-generated terrain, and have it automagically flow/blend with the existing terrain 05:46 VanessaE but that would take an act of magic probably 05:47 hmmmm not really 05:47 VanessaE (the idea of course being upgrading old worlds, rather than just throwing them out) 05:47 hmmmm it just needs developers working on it 05:47 hmmmm i've got my hands tied between real life and client side scripting 05:48 hmmmm :/ 05:48 VanessaE no problem. it's just something for the far future 05:48 hmmmm lol 05:48 VanessaE round about the same time as that "strip the map down to just what's been built on/dug out" idea :) 05:48 VanessaE pipe dreams, etc. 05:49 hmmmm nah 05:49 hmmmm this idea is much more plausible 05:49 hmmmm recording map deltas only is much more difficult than you might think. there are technical reasons why it hasn't been done already 05:50 VanessaE nah I don't mean that 05:50 VanessaE I mean more like, given a list of nodes, if a mapblock contains anything outside that list, it's "built on". 05:50 VanessaE otherwise it's just something that was generated as an aside, and could be deleted. 05:50 hmmmm oh 05:51 hmmmm so like generate a diff given a current map 05:51 hmmmm *that* is doable 05:51 VanessaE yes, something like that 05:53 VanessaE or even generate a "shadow" copy of the map, get your list of nodes, and then compare that list to the real one. 05:53 VanessaE (where the shadow has identical characteristics to the real one, including lua callbacks) 05:54 hmmmm sounds cool, how's it going to get stored though? 05:54 VanessaE well the way I figured it, you'd just be deleting blocks from the database that contain nothing outside of the list derived from the shadow. 05:54 VanessaE so no need to change the storage format 05:55 VanessaE sort of a "let's clean up the map *now*" feature, in the same vein as /clearobjects 05:56 VanessaE one would probably want to limit it to blocks above Y=-1 though. 05:56 VanessaE well no.. 05:56 VanessaE hrm 05:57 hmmmm liquid flowing 05:57 hmmmm you do have a point 05:58 hmmmm it's not as simple as ignoring liquids either because of lava cooling 05:58 hmmmm and other abms 05:58 VanessaE *nod* I know 05:58 hmmmm if you can figure out a creative solution to this problem i'd be willing to do it 05:58 hmmmm :P 05:58 VanessaE is there a way, from a mod, to hit a mapblock without forcing it to generate? 05:59 VanessaE (but forcing it to load if it's already been generated, of course) 05:59 hmmmm hit? 05:59 VanessaE hit/read 06:00 hmmmm no 06:00 VanessaE too bad,. 06:00 hmmmm that would be pretty useful though, huh? 06:00 VanessaE this would be doable from a mod if that were the case. 06:01 hmmmm get_node() does getBlockNoGenerateNoEx 06:01 hmmmm but what you'd want is a variant of get_node() that calls emergeBlock(..., false) instead 06:01 VanessaE just rattle through the mapblocks one at a time, attempt to read it, return early if it's not yet generated, otherwise search it for the nodes in some predefined list, execute the /deleteblock function for that block if no match 06:02 hmmmm do you realize how slow that is 06:02 hmmmm lol 06:02 VanessaE oh I'm sure it would be abysmal :) 06:05 VanessaE of course that depends on slow find_nodes_in_area() really is 06:05 VanessaE you can feed a whole list to it and it'll return an empty table if there are no matches 06:06 VanessaE (in this instance you don't actually care what is returned if the table is not empty, as you'll just skip to the next block without evaluating the table) 06:11 VanessaE (better to do something like that in-core though since you'd be able to just read directly from the database without worrying about what your search pattern is or what is or isn't generated) 06:11 hmmmm so you want to filter a mapblock against a list of acceptable nodes? 06:11 VanessaE yep, easily doable in lua with the above call 06:12 hmmmm so if block[z][y][x] is one of {brick, cobble, torch, etc.} then filtered_block[z][y][x] = block[z][y][x] otherwise content ignore 06:12 hmmmm ? 06:13 hmmmm that sort of logic? 06:13 VanessaE yes, basically that 06:14 VanessaE anyway I'm getting pretty tired so I'm gonna call it a night 06:14 hmmmm that's easily doable 06:14 hmmmm hmm 06:15 VanessaE except you want to invert the condition 06:15 VanessaE if block[z][y][x] is contains none of {list of nodes} then content ignore, else filtered = block. 06:16 VanessaE -is 06:16 hmmmm err 06:16 hmmmm we're thinking of two separate things 06:16 VanessaE heh ok 06:16 VanessaE let's save this for another time then 06:16 hmmmm so yeah your logic there can filter out entire mapblocks 06:17 hmmmm but then you'd still need my logic to decide which nodes inside the block you'd like to keep 06:17 hmmmm what's the endgoal here? trimming a map, or cutting out user-created portions of a map 06:18 VanessaE trimming out all the extra, generated junk no one has been to in forever 06:18 hmmmm okay so just trimming 06:18 VanessaE it has a secondary use: 06:18 hmmmm it's funny 06:19 hmmmm immediately storing generated blocks into the db is predicated on the notion that generation is much slower than loading from disk 06:19 hmmmm when the exact opposite is true in practice 06:19 VanessaE once such a command has been run and the map trimmed, you could then add a new mod that depends on newly-generated terrain, without forcing your players to go searching 20km from spawn 06:20 VanessaE (i.e. some new ores mod or whatever) 06:21 VanessaE ok, off to bed. 09:06 rubenwardy #1256 hasn't been done yet? 09:06 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1256 -- Everything in the HUD should be scalable by DPI 09:08 rubenwardy hmm https://github.com/minetest/minetest/labels/blocker 09:24 kilbith est31, don't forget to sync master with stable-0.4 branch 09:31 nrzkt rubenwardy: closed. 09:34 rubenwardy we now have exactly 500 issues 09:38 nrzkt too munch 09:38 nrzkt much 09:41 rubenwardy yeah 09:41 rubenwardy 139 bugs 10:25 rubenwardy urgh 10:25 rubenwardy the mainmenu code really really sucks 10:27 rubenwardy why is it done like this? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/menu_lua_api.txt#L148-L149 10:28 rubenwardy will there by any other server lists than local and online? 10:29 rubenwardy firstly the function name is misleading to me, it should be core.get_servers() 10:30 rubenwardy secondly it could be split into core.get_serverlist() and core.get_favorites() 10:33 nrzkt rubenwardy: pr ? :) 10:33 rubenwardy yeah 10:33 rubenwardy preparing 11:15 TBC_x VanessaE: Does the Lua oom error happen on every your server? 11:28 rubenwardy isn't the feature freeze over now? 11:49 nrzkt rubenwardy 0.4.13 is released. Please look at the changelog 11:50 Amaz nrzkt, if 0.4.13 has been released, shouldn't something be made here (https://github.com/minetest/minetest/releases) or will that be done later? 11:51 sfan5 there is a release draft 11:54 rubenwardy ~topic 11:54 ShadowBot rubenwardy: Minetest core development and maintenance. Feature freeze IN EFFECT until 0.4.13 release, no commits on the master branch except bugfixes or trivial (small) cleanups. Chit-chat goes to #minetest. Consider this instead of /msg celeron55. http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest-dev/ http://dev.minetest.net/ 11:55 rubenwardy nrzkt, I WROTE the changelog 11:55 sfan5 rubenwardy: why is it not in the wiki page? 11:55 sfan5 also >~topic 11:55 sfan5 wat 11:55 sfan5 that command is stupid 11:56 sfan5 literally every irc client has /topic 11:56 rubenwardy was waiting for it to actually be release 11:56 rubenwardy /topic only sends it to me, not to whole channel 11:57 Hunterz !topic 11:57 ShadowBot Hunterz: Minetest core development and maintenance. Feature freeze IN EFFECT until 0.4.13 release, no commits on the master branch except bugfixes or trivial (small) cleanups. Chit-chat goes to #minetest. Consider this instead of /msg celeron55. http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest-dev/ http://dev.minetest.net/ 11:57 Hunterz :) 11:58 rubenwardy the topic command can also set the topic 12:02 rubenwardy great 12:02 rubenwardy dev.minetest.net is offline 12:03 rubenwardy "Sorry, we could not find dev.minetest.net." 12:04 rubenwardy page should be this: https://gist.github.com/rubenwardy/e2835402455d803ffc5e 12:08 rubenwardy done http://dev.minetest.net/Changelog 12:08 TBC_x damn... I think I missed the release 12:12 nanepiwo the devs still haven't updated the forum, or site, and some other things... 12:12 rubenwardy the release cycle isn't finished yet 12:13 rubenwardy see http://dev.minetest.net/Releasing_Minetest 12:13 nanepiwo useful link, thanks! 12:13 nanepiwo I was talking to TBC_x 12:15 rubenwardy can't wait for the possibilities of client-side-scripting 12:16 TBC_x well... I have weak moments sometimes... and then my brain just doesn't work and I just play some games 12:16 TBC_x and I need to fix a race condition 12:17 TBC_x which is not trivial because it happens in packet handler and I don't favor quick & dirty fixes 12:18 TBC_x that race condition causes heap corruption 12:18 TBC_x so it is kinda severe 12:20 TBC_x removing est31's SRP code would be very easy way for me because I don't understand his code 12:20 TBC_x SRP is mostly in my way 12:21 TBC_x the issue I have with SRP is that it uses RemoteClient class as data container 12:51 RealBadAngel excuse me, but .13 is out now 12:51 TBC_x ikr 12:51 RealBadAngel we are waitin now for packagers 12:52 TBC_x I am mad at myself because I didn't make it in time 12:52 RealBadAngel i wanst sleeping all nite to fix the current issues and let it happen 12:52 RealBadAngel .13 is real now 12:53 RealBadAngel literally im walknin on my eybrows now 12:54 TBC_x I thought it was supposed to be released on saturday 12:54 RealBadAngel and saw paramats opinion that relief mapping sux 12:56 RealBadAngel i really going to stop contributing to master if i will get such opinions 12:56 RealBadAngel i dont care anymore 12:57 RealBadAngel middle finger and goodbye 12:57 RealBadAngel im just tired of it 12:58 RealBadAngel please hire another gfx man to be such stupid as me :P 12:59 RealBadAngel im off, literally 12:59 TBC_x http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest-dev/2015-08-10#i_4359435 13:00 TBC_x I was relying on that date :P 13:00 RealBadAngel fuck of dates, tastes or whatever 13:00 RealBadAngel hmmm is the best coder out there 13:00 RealBadAngel paramat has the best taste 13:01 RealBadAngel all others are absent but can veto anythin 13:01 RealBadAngel its damn sick 13:01 RealBadAngel only est31 is trying to be in the middle 13:02 RealBadAngel .13 was my last effort 13:02 RealBadAngel i wont be creating PR for mt anylonger 13:03 RealBadAngel you dont care bout me, i wont care bout you 13:03 RealBadAngel cya 13:03 TBC_x hf 13:04 RealBadAngel actually im having fun right now 13:04 RealBadAngel and you wont 13:04 TBC_x good for you 13:04 RealBadAngel i spent 2 yrs coding for mt 13:05 RealBadAngel whatver, just fuck off 13:06 RealBadAngel im outta here 13:11 * twoelk is sad as he realizes there might be less exciting new eyecandy (and many other things) in the future 13:24 nrzkt for the release i think est31 forget to set the tag 13:25 nrzkt i will apply it nows 13:32 nrzkt tag is pushed 14:33 VanessaE my servers have been updated to HEAD. 14:54 Donillo help 14:54 Donillo ERROR[main]: ERROR: An unhandled exception occurred: ServerEnvironment::loadMeta(): EnvArgsEnd not found! 14:54 Donillo what did I just broke? 14:54 Calinou Donillo, in the world's env_meta.txt write this: 14:54 Calinou game_time = 532 14:54 Calinou time_of_day = 17877 14:54 Calinou EnvArgsEnd 14:54 VanessaE look for the env_meta.txt file in your world, and repla... 14:55 Calinou the game should do this automatically, seriously :( 14:55 VanessaE what Calinou said. 14:55 Donillo huh 14:55 Donillo I've removed env_meta.txt and env_meta.~mt 14:55 Donillo both were 0 bytes 14:56 Donillo I think something got messed up 14:57 Donillo I've been trying to setup logging to file via tee 15:00 celeron55 on what platform is this? 15:01 Donillo git build on Linux 15:01 celeron55 the ~mt file is supposed to handle the situation properly and make MT never end up with an actual empty file, assuming the operating system is working properly 15:01 Donillo Debian Wheezy, 32 bit 15:01 Donillo it started previously normally 15:01 celeron55 what happened when you stopped playing last time? 15:01 Donillo I guess I messed up soemthing with arguments while trying t ~o setup logging 15:02 celeron55 how close are you to running out of disk space? i mean, is that what happened? 15:02 Donillo well, I think that's not relevant since I've restarted server multiple times successfully (terminated server with ^C), but previously server rebooted due power loss or something 15:02 Donillo likely it was messed up command line 15:02 celeron55 oh well that explains 15:03 celeron55 the power loss messed up your filesystem 15:03 Donillo ext4 + restarted minetestserver successfully until messing with start shell script? 15:04 Donillo IMO unlikely, that was me, not power failure 15:04 Donillo :D 15:04 celeron55 you can't break that file using minetest 15:04 celeron55 if you manually emptied it somehow outside of minetest, then yes; but that sounds like quite the command line mess-up 15:05 Donillo maybe some leftovers from power loss, no idea right now 15:05 Donillo server is working now 15:05 celeron55 so i mean, the server started fine after the power loss, and then only later failed? 15:05 Donillo yea 15:05 Donillo after I messed with command line 15:11 nanepiwo celeron55, same happens to me every time my linux computer is force-shutdown (usually due to mt freezing to avoid overheating) 15:11 nanepiwo *everything freezes 15:12 Donillo does it take few minetestserver reboots to show up? 15:13 nanepiwo no, minetestserver won't start without that file 15:13 celeron55 nanepiwo: what exactly happens every time? 15:13 celeron55 nanepiwo: does it always do it, and always end up with a zero-length file? 15:13 nanepiwo yes. 15:13 celeron55 or does it always do it, but sometimes there is no file and sometimes a zero-length file? 15:13 nanepiwo or at least so far 15:13 celeron55 or does it only sometimes do it, and what then? 15:14 nanepiwo there's almost-always an empty file, otherwise its normal 15:14 celeron55 which version of minetest is it? 15:14 celeron55 Donillo: you too; version please 15:15 nanepiwo some dev build of 0.4.12, not sure which commit 15:24 Donillo No, I don't suspect anything what could cause failure except myself :) 15:25 Donillo ffe3f03bc514d5cd2a0a520ea6fb69594c7dff77 15:26 celeron55 ok; both of those versions basically have the same (up-to-date) code regarding to this 15:26 celeron55 but i just noticed that the current code contains a bug caused by this commit: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/5f1f1151d3a9c113902630adc16cc3f4845da7ba 15:26 celeron55 that commit enabled the workaround behavior that was made for windows to be used on linux too 15:27 celeron55 i can't find anything else that could cause the issue so this is rather high on my suspect list now 15:32 celeron55 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3084 15:35 kahrl the relevant PR is #1477 15:35 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1477 -- Remove temporary file at safeWriteToFile() by Selat 15:38 celeron55 yeah i wasn't thinking about the actual safeness of the operation in the comment there; i was only thinking about whether it will work at all 16:20 est31 nrzkt, I didnt forget to push the 0.4.13 tag, its because github forces every tag to be a release 16:20 est31 you cant just tag without doing a release 16:20 est31 so therefore I would have waited for the windows builds to be available 16:23 est31 forgot a colon ;) 16:24 est31 very fine, we have MSVC builds 16:24 est31 thanks blockmen 16:24 est31 nrzkt, can you try doing android builds? 16:25 hmmmm :) 16:25 est31 uploading to github + play store 16:26 nrzkt this evening i will try to do it 16:26 est31 ok 16:26 nrzkt else it will be available maximum this weekend 16:31 est31 no problem with that 16:39 Donillo player's ability to elevate with shift is affected by server only? 16:40 est31 shift is sneak 16:40 Donillo looks like I just found out parkour in MT 16:41 Donillo broke into my own house via window :P 16:41 Donillo btw, is there are efficient way to combat going through protected walls? 17:16 Donillo it is possible to send position information to client exactly with that "returning block"? 17:16 Donillo if so, server could just reset player's position if he moved while trying to break protected vblock 17:17 Donillo possible to? 17:18 rubenwardy possible, but would be very annoying 17:18 Donillo how so? 17:18 Donillo don't do anythibg visible if player can break node 17:19 Donillo just move him where he started if he can't 17:20 Donillo for example, save position of player when he punches protected node and reset his position to that when he tries to break it, maybe rounding down position to node's center 17:37 est31 Donillo, it is possible to do such "protections". 17:39 est31 minecraft has a very straightforward and simple algorithm for this 17:39 est31 perhaps it should be implemented, dunno. 17:39 est31 but it would be against freedom 17:40 est31 you don't get harmed by people who break into your house, unlike in RL. 17:40 est31 so I'm undecided on whether to do it or not 17:42 est31 it would work even without any changes to protocol 17:42 est31 only server changes needed 17:44 BlockMen why is 04.13 still halfish releases? 17:44 BlockMen +. 17:45 est31 do you want to release without mingw builds? 17:45 est31 releasing without them is better IMO than with outdated builds 17:46 BlockMen i dont see a problem with that. but more important than my personal view on that is why everything else is done already then 17:46 BlockMen *means the uncomment commit and added tag 17:47 est31 the uncomment commit? you mean https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/ffe3f03bc514d5cd2a0a520ea6fb69594c7dff77 17:48 est31 I think that its good, that we push both version bump commit and uncomment commit in one step, so that nobody accidentially pushes commits onto master 17:48 est31 It happened after 0.4.12 if I recall right 17:48 BlockMen yes, - after - it was released 17:49 BlockMen it is also stated to be done not before in the dev wiki 17:50 BlockMen http://dev.minetest.net/Releasing_Minetest#After_releasing 17:50 est31 it says "Check that the util/bump_version.sh script did the following steps" 17:50 est31 important word is "check" 17:50 est31 not "do" 17:51 BlockMen no, the important here is "After releasing" 17:51 est31 yes, after releasing you check that that happened too. 17:51 BlockMen releasing without binaries is no release 17:51 est31 agreed. 17:51 nanepiwo after releasing: reenable -dev suffix: check it worked 17:52 est31 we only released the src now, for engine and game 17:52 est31 so lets push the button then 17:53 BlockMen est31, you deleted the mingw builds already? 17:53 est31 not yet, why? 17:54 BlockMen because they are gone o.O 17:54 BlockMen sfan5? ^ 17:54 sfan5 no it was me 17:54 sfan5 i built new ones 17:54 sfan5 I'm uploading them now 17:55 BlockMen ah, good 17:55 BlockMen can you change the changelog thing while you are on it? 17:55 sfan5 change? 17:55 Siva_android is mingw a dev build? 17:55 est31 and push the button? 17:55 sfan5 Siva_android: no 17:56 BlockMen sfan5, the checkbox 17:56 sfan5 oh, sure 17:57 Siva_android OK then what is it? 17:57 sfan5 a build compiled with a different compiler 17:57 Siva_android ah 17:57 sfan5 might work better for some people 17:57 BlockMen im making the forum topic now 17:57 TBC_x est31, does client->create_player_on_auth_success indicate that the client just connected to the server? 17:58 est31 TBC_x, I'll answer, but later, ok? I'm busy releasing 17:58 est31 getting binaries for linux too 17:58 TBC_x damn... I wanted to fix the heap corruption before release :P 17:58 TBC_x what a shame 17:59 est31 heap corruption? 17:59 est31 well, I guess it can wait for after the releae as well. 17:59 sfan5 ok uploaded the mingw builds 18:00 kilbith est31, you should merge master in stable-0.4 branch 18:00 est31 kilbith, yes, I'm on it 18:00 est31 right now I'm wondering why I dont have the branch locally 18:02 est31 argh, too much files changed by both parties 18:02 est31 many many merge conflicts 18:05 sfan5 merge conflicts? 18:05 est31 I've typed 18:05 sfan5 shouldn stable-0.4 be fast-forwardable to master? 18:05 est31 no because nrzkt has done fixes on android on it 18:05 est31 for* 18:05 est31 perhaps next time he should use some other branch 18:06 est31 I've typed $ git checkout upstream/stable-0.4 18:06 est31 then $ git merge 0.4.13 18:06 nrzkt git rebase master 18:07 est31 then I've typed git status, and lotsa red files 18:07 est31 nrzkt, the release manual says "merge", not "rebase" 18:07 sfan5 but rebase is what you should do 18:07 est31 what I've done after it was aborting the conflicting merge, and saying "git merge -X theirs 0.4.13" 18:07 sfan5 or wait 18:08 sfan5 does rebase change commit ids... 18:08 sfan5 probably 18:08 nrzkt no 18:08 est31 yes of course it does 18:08 BlockMen ofc it does 18:08 est31 commit ids are immutable 18:08 nrzkt git remove branch and re-do it 18:08 nrzkt it's not a problem 18:08 est31 (immutable is a shit word I know, but thats what linus torvalds said) 18:09 BlockMen IIRC there was made a decision on that, since there was something different last release 18:09 BlockMen but idk any - what - was decided 18:09 est31 The manual sais "The new release should be merged to the stable-0.4 branch on both minetest and minetest_game. " 18:09 est31 celeron55, do you remember the discussion? 18:10 est31 any problems with actually merging? 18:10 est31 I know its not the way we do it for master branch and pull requests, and this is good 18:11 celeron55 what else can you do? 18:11 est31 you can do what nrzkt suggested, removing the tag, and re-pushing it 18:11 est31 err branch 18:12 est31 I guess its the same as doing git reset --hard 0.4.13 on the branch 18:12 est31 and then git push -f 18:12 celeron55 wait 18:12 est31 merging would ensure that git describe finds the 0.4.13 tag in history. 18:13 est31 @ least I think 18:13 est31 yes it finds 0.4.13 18:13 celeron55 what exactly *is* the problem? 18:13 celeron55 is the problem that the tag is on master, not on stable-0.4? 18:13 est31 the tag belongs to master, no? 18:14 celeron55 i'm pretty sure the tag should be on stable-0.4; but is this the issue? 18:14 est31 we had problems with that the last time we did it 18:15 est31 because we use git describe on the master branch 18:15 celeron55 oh, okay, then it should probably be on master 18:16 celeron55 i don't see any issue anywhere; i think master just has to be merged onto stable-0.4 then 18:17 celeron55 any conflicts should be resolved by taking what is in master 18:18 celeron55 if things break when doing that, then master has been mishandled by not including all fixes into it that have been put into stable-0.4 18:20 est31 nrz has pushed commits onto stable-0.4, he's used it for android fixes. 18:21 celeron55 if the same fixes are in master too, the merge should work fine; are they? 18:22 est31 I honestly don't know why the merge fails 18:23 BlockMen wasnt the freeze0.4.12 branch merged into stable intead of master last time? 18:24 kilbith correct 18:24 est31 there is no freeze branch 18:24 est31 the freezing branch is master 18:24 BlockMen ^ this time again, not for 0.4.12 18:25 est31 This is an excerpt from the merge conflict > https://gist.github.com/anonymous/b80b0bb5d348c0efdfa3 18:26 est31 I really have no idea what happened here 18:27 est31 seems the fixes were already done on master, but weren't recognized by git merge 18:28 celeron55 this merge is weird for sure 18:32 BlockMen has the history of the "after release"-commits on stable to be saved? 18:32 celeron55 everyone: don't push anything anywhere now without asking 18:33 kahrl damn, now I can't play sokoban 18:33 est31 lol 18:33 celeron55 maybe "git merge --strategy-option theirs master" does what we want? 18:33 est31 replace perhaps master with 0.4.13 18:33 est31 because master already has the "continue with develpment" commit 18:33 celeron55 oh, yeah 18:34 est31 but yes, I think thats what we need 18:34 est31 at least people on #git said git merge -s theirs is it. 18:34 celeron55 it merges fine; i'm currently testing whether it builds on linux 18:35 celeron55 it... builds, but it doesn't seem to quite work 18:36 TBC_x Is there still time for complaints about credits tab? 18:37 celeron55 yes; any complaints will be addressed for next release 18:37 est31 yea 18:37 TBC_x TeTpaAka don't match my nickname 18:37 celeron55 this is not the last release of minetest like everyone seems to think for every release 18:37 TBC_x hehe 18:38 celeron55 looks like my network setup is just fucked; not even master works for me 18:38 est31 celeron55, can you push the commit to your local fork? then I can try to build and run it 18:39 celeron55 pushed 18:39 celeron55 https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/commits/stable-0.4 18:40 celeron55 the commit tree seems to looks fine 18:41 celeron55 est31: if you confirm that the thing actually works, you can push it 18:41 celeron55 i need to be afk for a while -> 18:43 BlockMen only thing i noticed in commit tree is "Bump version to 0.4.12" is double 18:43 BlockMen no, actually every commit of 0.4.12 18:44 est31 it seems to be split since e62927ed71c557cd885fce03fbc34bb6020089a3 18:45 est31 I guess thats when we entered 0.4.12 freeze 18:46 est31 seems to work for me 18:46 BlockMen nope, there are more est 18:46 kahrl est31: does it compile for android? 18:47 est31 kahrl, it should 18:47 est31 but I test 18:47 kahrl I think android's mbtowc is broken 18:47 est31 how do you mean it? 18:48 kahrl https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/blob/4865b316ba3a8bae0aba74519099344b731a4e2b/src/util/string.cpp#L229 18:48 kahrl there is no variable named "tmp" 18:49 BlockMen brb 18:51 est31 grrrr 18:51 est31 thats bad 18:51 est31 getting it too 18:52 est31 well, seems we can't release android without bugfix patches either :( 18:52 kahrl I honestly would feel safer just deleting the branch and recreating it from scratch 18:52 kahrl who knows what else is broken 18:53 est31 well seems to be c55's fault 18:53 est31 open 4865b316ba3a8bae0aba74519099344b731a4e2b in gitk 18:54 est31 there you see changes to weird list of files 18:54 est31 perhaps he had it in the working dir 18:54 est31 and accidentially included them 18:54 kahrl hmm 18:55 est31 if it did actually succeed, git diff 0.4.13 would be empty 18:55 kahrl why would he do stuff to the polish translation though 18:55 kahrl err czech 18:55 est31 dunno 18:56 est31 git diff showed precisely those files 18:57 est31 kahrl, can you try to do the git merge -s theirs ? 18:57 kahrl sec 18:57 est31 I can't do it, old git version 18:58 est31 for my 2.1.4 it says "Konnte Merge-Strategie 'theirs' nicht finden." 18:58 kahrl Could not find merge strategy 'theirs'. Available strategies are: octopus ours recursive resolve subtree. 18:58 kahrl I think it's --strategy-option theirs 19:00 kahrl with that I'm also getting a diff on po/cs/minetest.po and src/util/string.cpp 19:00 kahrl not the exact same as c55's though 19:04 kahrl ah, this seems to be better: git checkout upstream/stable-0.4; git merge -X theirs -X patience 0.4.13 19:04 est31 hrmm figured out a way that seems to work 19:04 est31 https://github.com/est31/minetest/tree/stable-0.4 19:04 est31 git checkout 0.4.13; git merge -s ours upstream/stable-0.4 19:05 est31 kahrl, is the diff empty for you as well? 19:05 kahrl yeah 19:06 est31 okay, kahrl can you verify that it works, and then push it? 19:06 est31 I'll push the button for the windows binaries, android can come later 19:07 est31 there it is: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/releases/tag/0.4.13 19:08 est31 doing launchpad and stuff later 19:08 est31 gotta go afk 19:10 kahrl est31/stable-0.4 builds and works for me, pushing to upstream now 19:10 BlockMen should i post on forums now or should that wait for launchpad? 19:10 BlockMen kahrl, seems fine to me (git history) 19:13 kilbith why especially laundpad ? 19:14 BlockMen i thought only launchpad has to be pushed manually. 19:14 celeron55 because due to historical reasons we have to maintain the launchpad package; we don't want to, but people expect it to be there 19:14 celeron55 we would like it if some ubuntu person took it, but nobody hasn't volunteered 19:15 celeron55 nobody has* 19:16 celeron55 our policy otherwise is that the core team does not maintain any distro packages and we have succesfully avoided that, other than this historical launchpad crap 19:16 celeron55 maybe we could just abandon it; dunno? 19:17 BlockMen umm...so i gonna post it on forums now with note that android and launchpad missing?!?? 19:19 celeron55 i think that's ok 19:21 BlockMen done 19:22 kilbith one thing : pin it on top of subforum 19:22 BlockMen cant, have no moderation privs 19:22 kilbith well, sfan5 19:23 kahrl or VanessaE 19:26 celeron55 me 19:27 BlockMen thx 22:29 celeron55 > Could u help me out? I'm looking to make a minetest like game that I could sell but people will be able to mod and have fun with could u help? 22:29 celeron55 i just love these emails, this one is totally crazy too d8-) 22:31 johnwayne1986 i get emails about viagra... :-? 22:31 kilbith my favourite is : http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest-dev/2015-01-13#i_4108628 22:32 johnwayne1986 have you noticed #3087 already? 22:32 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3087 -- Worsening of glitch bug 22:36 celeron55 kilbith: i wonder how i could attract more weird and crazy people to send emails about minetest to me 22:41 johnwayne1986 anyway, gn8 23:51 est31 okay launchpad is updated now too 23:51 est31 and f-droid got a merge request for updating 23:51 est31 didnt try the build though :/