Time Nick Message 00:09 hmmmm what the f.... 00:09 hmmmm RBA quit because people didn't want music directly in the core 00:10 hmmmm and he blames jthread for making his code slow 00:10 hmmmm is this serious 00:10 RealBadAngel hmmmm, you may merge this later on 00:10 RealBadAngel and for the music i waited more than a year 00:11 hmmmm main menu music - sure. i have no problem with that, i think it's a neat feature 00:11 hmmmm but that's a per-game thing 00:11 RealBadAngel there were also a code for that 00:11 hmmmm i think what you want is to develop a *game* with less lua and more hard coded effects 00:11 RealBadAngel even c55 found it 00:11 hmmmm yes i saw it 00:11 RealBadAngel it was never merged 00:12 hmmmm probably because it says WIP on it 00:12 RealBadAngel lol 00:12 hmmmm if you're telling us it's still a work in progress... 00:12 hmmmm then why would we merge that 00:12 RealBadAngel i was begging for it many times 00:12 RealBadAngel like i should lol 00:12 hmmmm also i read that it breaks something 00:12 RealBadAngel lemme find a link 00:13 hmmmm why not just fix that, make it into a finished product, then merge it 00:13 hmmmm then merge the main menu music into minetest_game 00:13 hmmmm not the core... 00:13 RealBadAngel https://gitlab.unix-experience.fr/epixel/epixel 00:14 RealBadAngel point of the score was the engine having own 00:14 hmmmm RealBadAngel, honestly, I think if you are looking to go into the direction of a monolithic, non-modular game with things hard coded, freeminer or minetest-classic is more your thing 00:14 RealBadAngel and each game overrriding it at will 00:14 * Taoki believes that a patch to allow per-game main menu music should be merged... urgently. Also that 1.5 MB is NOT a big file size... at all. Also that RBA should stay and not leave the project :) 00:14 Taoki Head still hurts after this morning heh 00:15 RealBadAngel i asked legendary comoser of PC demoscene to use his tunes 00:15 RealBadAngel he said ok 00:15 hmmmm yes, I read all of what you said last night 00:15 hmmmm and I can't help but repeat the same counter arguments 00:15 RealBadAngel but you just refused it 00:15 hmmmm because they are indeed valid, imo 00:15 RealBadAngel this case 00:15 hmmmm i didn't even need to tell you no 00:15 hmmmm other people did 00:15 RealBadAngel i felt offended too 00:16 RealBadAngel because im a demoscene coder too 00:16 hmmmm feelings are a personal matter... this is minetest 00:16 Taoki I think we all need better communication to avoid such situations, for one thing. 00:16 RealBadAngel you have spit into my face 00:16 hmmmm the communication is perfect 00:16 hmmmm RBA just wants and gets mad if he does not get 00:16 RealBadAngel thats why im leaving 00:16 hmmmm RealBadAngel 00:16 RealBadAngel i was patient for a year 00:17 hmmmm I don't have qualms about you leaving, but I would suggest you contribute to minetest classic instead 00:17 VanessaE hmmmm: there is one of those arguments from last night that is NOT valid: that 1.5 MB worth of extra content is somehow excessive. This is 2015, most people have good enough bandwidth to handle that (it's what, 10 seconds for the slowest of slow DSL's?) 00:17 Taoki hmmmm: Not really. Devs argue sometimes, the atmosphere here hasn't always been that great. I can now see how that risks ruining the project really. 00:17 hmmmm it's probably a better fit of a project for your own style 00:17 VanessaE and it's not as though *clients* have to download that extra data from a server. they'll already have it as part of their base install. 00:17 RealBadAngel wait a second 00:17 RealBadAngel whos AV maintainer? 00:18 RealBadAngel theres just one to blame for 00:18 hmmmm VanessaE: okay, point well made, but explain why this cannot be part of minetest_game instead 00:19 VanessaE hmmmm: because the idea here is for between-games music, i.e. when nothing at all is selected at the main menu. 00:19 RealBadAngel because each game can carry own tunes 00:19 VanessaE or when waiting to connect to a server for example. 00:19 RealBadAngel im the only dumb person here? 00:19 hmmmm so why can't there be a mechanism to fall back onto another game's bundled music 00:19 RealBadAngel rotfl 00:19 hmmmm plenty of things rely on minetest_game already 00:20 VanessaE hmmmm: I was going to suggest exactly that, actually. 00:20 hmmmm right 00:20 VanessaE however, 00:20 VanessaE some kind of minimal tune for the main menu should still be provided. 00:20 RealBadAngel anwyay, hmmmm youre free to merge it 00:20 VanessaE (I mean so that the "fallback" doesn't become "the main" tune) 00:20 hmmmm eh 00:20 RealBadAngel you do have my aprroval and Peter Hajba, the composer 00:21 hmmmm I'm not totally convinced on the need for music to begin with 00:21 RealBadAngel sure, turn on tv 00:21 hmmmm if this feature were added, I personally wouldn't ever use it 00:21 RealBadAngel are you deaf? 00:21 VanessaE hmmmm: the need is there as a player perception issue. The vast majority of games have at least some kind of basic music running in their main menu. 00:22 Taoki hmmmm: Some default main menu music for minetest_game might be okay. Personally I'm interested for support for other games to do it, but really MTG could too. 00:22 VanessaE and to the average user, Minetest is a game, not an engine. 00:22 hmmmm so why can't we have some kind of "tap" sound when a user clicks on a button 00:22 hmmmm so they know it's working 00:22 Taoki Especially becaiuse it's local. The music file doesn't need to be networked, which causes most of the slowness. 00:22 RealBadAngel its a video game production 00:22 Taoki That would be good too! 00:22 RealBadAngel aviable on just a one click 00:22 VanessaE hmmmm: because that only gives the perception of feedback, not "first impression: this is a good game". 00:22 RealBadAngel tap even 00:23 RealBadAngel its fucking 21st century 00:23 VanessaE that's really the point main-menu-no-adventure-selected-yet music 00:23 RealBadAngel and its deaf production 00:23 hmmmm VanessaE: so how about openarena? 00:23 VanessaE give the player a good first impression of the game they've just launched. 00:23 VanessaE hmmmm: touché 00:23 RealBadAngel you guys are just nuts to not see and understand it 00:23 VanessaE nevertheless, even OA has music once you're in a game 00:23 VanessaE ominous though it may be 00:24 hmmmm yeah and servers can already do that today 00:24 VanessaE yes, but if a server does it, it has to send all that data to every client. 00:24 RealBadAngel anyway, thats not my problem anymore 00:24 VanessaE which will drive server bandwidth counts up and make things slower for players. 00:24 hmmmm see 00:24 RealBadAngel jesus 00:24 RealBadAngel nuts 00:24 hmmmm I have nothing against music 00:24 hmmmm but don't make it a basic part of the core 00:24 hmmmm that's such a per-game thing 00:24 * Taoki worries for who will manage the minimap and shaders code for Minetest now :( 00:25 RealBadAngel just PUT THE FUCKIN FILE IN SOUNDS FOLDER 00:25 VanessaE bandwidth for ME is a non-issue, I have like 10TB a month allowed on my servers, but imagine the average server owner who runs the game from, let's say, a cheap VPS that only gives them 50GB a month or something 00:25 hmmmm honestly I am rpobably going to end up doing that, taoki 00:25 Taoki ok 00:25 hmmmm as a part of client side modding 00:25 RealBadAngel server doesnt have to sent it 00:25 hmmmm anyway 00:26 hmmmm for a discussion such as this one with so many wildly varying opinions, i can't help but think that a poll isn't more appropriate 00:26 VanessaE hmmmm: what RBA is trying to say with that outburst is that the feature is already supported in the core and has been for a long time now. All that is necessary to enable it, literally, is to supply the necessary ogg file. 00:26 RealBadAngel if sound file is found locally its just used 00:26 hmmmm VanessaE: celeron said that PR is broken somehow 00:26 VanessaE define "somehow"? 00:26 RealBadAngel R O T F L 00:26 hmmmm i dunno i'm reading the logs 00:26 VanessaE I think c55 is referring to another piece of code/PR? 00:27 hmmmm he's referring to [WIP] Main menu music 00:27 RealBadAngel i just provided media file 00:27 hmmmm 1651 00:27 RealBadAngel thats about EXTRA functionality 00:27 hmmmm 'altough it breaks some functionality in guiEngine.cpp which should be fixed before that is merged, if it will be' 00:27 RealBadAngel and games able to have own tunes 00:28 VanessaE so, here's my thinking: supply a little 60-120s main menu media file, let it play, and when the user clicks on a game, either cross-fade into whatever is supplied with the clicked-on game=, or just keep the tune playing if there is nothing at all. 00:28 RealBadAngel jesus, this code is older than some of the dinosaurs 00:28 hmmmm make a forum poll on it 00:28 RealBadAngel i wont 00:28 RealBadAngel im not mt dev anymore 00:28 hmmmm look i get it 00:29 hmmmm for somebody who's 42 you're acting awfully immature about this whole thing 00:29 Taoki hmmmm: Sadly, I must agree there. Hope RBA won't hate me for saying it. 00:29 RealBadAngel waiting a yr for a reaction is pretty long time 00:30 VanessaE RBA may be overreacting a bit, but a year indeed is WAY too long to go for something this simple (relatively speaking) 00:30 Taoki I'd rather not lie: The way RBA reacted is mostly what upset me today. Even if I think I actually agree with almost all his points. 00:30 RealBadAngel i had a vision of what i was doing 00:30 hmmmm maybe the reason why it wasn't merged for so long is because it's controversial 00:30 RealBadAngel you have all pissed on me 00:31 Taoki VanessaE: I think he should apologize at least for saying that everyone in the Minetest credits list is a lunatic. I'm also on there BTW... of course I don't mind that implying me, but it's just an idea and principle for me. 00:31 hmmmm if it were brought up as a topic of discussion to me, personally, what i would do is add it (provided it didn't force music as part of the core) 00:31 RealBadAngel controversial is video game without a music 00:31 VanessaE Taoki: he's quoting the main website :) 00:31 hmmmm since it seems to be an enhancement 00:31 Taoki I uderstand RBA felt underconsidered too, however. 00:31 Taoki Which is one reason why I said communication might have not been the best. 00:31 hmmmm there's a clear difference between an added feature/enhancement and a stylistic choice 00:31 hmmmm minetest_game is the place where those stylistic choices go into 00:32 VanessaE hmmmm: the problem is that minetest_game is not always available 00:32 RealBadAngel minetest game can have own music 00:32 VanessaE (though in theory, it *should* be) 00:32 RealBadAngel as each game 00:32 RealBadAngel just update the pr. its simple lua 00:33 Taoki Anyway, if there's a vote, I say include that music file. I don't see it doing any harm. 00:33 hmmmm i'd rather take a closer look at what celeron is talking about before merging something that breaks other functionality 00:33 RealBadAngel lol 00:33 RealBadAngel he found another way to refuse 00:33 hmmmm and not during a feature freeze either 00:33 RealBadAngel im fed up with his shit 00:34 VanessaE I don't advocate merging it during freeze. 00:34 hmmmm so just to be clear: 00:34 hmmmm i approve of pr 1651 if... 00:34 hmmmm - the music file is removed 00:35 hmmmm - the functionality is verified to be working 00:35 hmmmm the critical mass of users or developers or whoever might like the music being right in the core 00:35 hmmmm that's up to them 00:35 hmmmm i'm not going to lie and suddenly say that i want it all of a sudden when i don't 00:36 hmmmm it's the community's choice as a whole, though 00:36 VanessaE hmmmm: so you're basically saying "let's make the code work first and decide on the style of its output, if any, later". 00:36 hmmmm yes basically 00:36 RealBadAngel im not going thiis way 00:36 hmmmm RealBadAngel: well it doesn't matter, does it? because you're not a dev any longer 00:37 RealBadAngel ofc 00:37 RealBadAngel for the record 00:37 VanessaE I can't say I disagree with that, with the proviso that if there's a clear consensus on a main menu tune or at least a style thereof, it be added in a separate commit later. 00:38 RealBadAngel at august 18th, Peter Hajba member of Future Crew, alllowed minetest to use his tunes 00:39 hmmmm yes we get it we get it 00:39 RealBadAngel year was 2014 00:39 hmmmm can we move onto another topic already? 00:39 RealBadAngel now i feel offended 00:40 RealBadAngel and he will propably feel the same 00:40 RealBadAngel if some1 will let him know 00:41 RealBadAngel no, we cant move onto another topic 00:41 RealBadAngel this one is already too old 00:43 hmmmm it's not productive to stay on this topic. we already defined our action items. 00:43 RealBadAngel yes 00:43 RealBadAngel i left and said goodbye 00:45 Taoki :/ 00:45 RealBadAngel and minetest is not allowed to use "Mercury Rain" anymore 00:45 RealBadAngel i get that approval and i am deciding which fork will get it 00:46 RealBadAngel if you have pissed on a legend dont be suprised if some1 will piss on you 00:51 RealBadAngel demoscene was born propably before you hmmm 00:52 RealBadAngel im with all those guys, including Skaven 00:52 RealBadAngel so, begone 00:54 VanessaE O_o 00:56 * Taoki sighs 01:05 hmmmm lol 01:05 hmmmm he makes it sound like a demoscene group is the mafia 01:08 Taoki This is being taken way, way too personally... 01:09 RealBadAngel mafia? 01:09 RealBadAngel hehhe, maybe 01:10 RealBadAngel folks are knowing each others 01:10 RealBadAngel going on meetings 01:11 RealBadAngel so you know the other coders for like 20yrs or more 01:12 RealBadAngel you can ask for everything and excuse everting 01:21 hmmmm well, we already explained our position. basically RBA wants us to unilaterally agree that music will be add it, and add it, or else he's going to hang around here and taunt us until we do 01:21 hmmmm i already explained the route that must be taken in order to see if it will be added or not 01:21 hmmmm there's nothing more to say about this really 01:22 hmmmm s/will be add it/will be added/ whoops 01:23 RealBadAngel hmmmm, you dont get it 01:23 RealBadAngel im not "here" anymore to taunt you 01:24 RealBadAngel i am just kind to let u know whats going on 01:25 RealBadAngel if there will be some problems, or patches needed minetest can get them 01:25 RealBadAngel also i can be of help 01:27 Taoki RealBadAngel: I'm mostly concerned about minimap and shader code. They're your work, and it might be harder for others to maintain them. If you can't develop patches for them in core Minetest any more, this might harm the project a lot. 01:27 Taoki I think and hope that's not something you wish to do. 01:28 RealBadAngel as i said, mt can use my patches 01:29 Taoki Can you still create pull requests? I mean if both core Minetest and your fork are on Github, it should hopefully be easy to exchange wanted updates on each end. 01:29 RealBadAngel theres a shitload of work for shaders upcoming 01:29 RealBadAngel our fork is on git compatible site 01:29 hmmmm our? 01:30 RealBadAngel so you can exchange patches 01:30 Taoki Ok. As long as they make it in core minetest as well, that's good. 01:30 RealBadAngel hmmm just woke up ;) 01:30 RealBadAngel yes, our 01:30 Taoki Perhaps trying to do with your own fork might be a good idea, if you feel it gives you more freedom. 01:30 Taoki Ultimately, it and Minetest will probably exchange most features and changes. 01:31 hmmmm who else is on board with your fork, RBA? 01:31 RealBadAngel c55? lol 01:32 RealBadAngel just jokin 01:35 RealBadAngel hmmmm, if they feel like in mood to let you know they propably will 01:36 Taoki I just hope the fork has a well set direction and purpose. I... do question at this moment whether you want to fork as a way of taking revenge on c55 and other developers. 01:37 Taoki Which of course would be your right all as much... just probably not as helpful. 01:37 Taoki Realistically speaking, things would be a lot better if everyone could continue down one project... but I guess that matters little now. 01:40 RealBadAngel i had my own vision 01:41 Taoki ok 01:41 Taoki Need to go now. Later, see everyone tomorrow 01:41 RealBadAngel just got tired pissing on my head constantl y 01:42 RealBadAngel cya 01:42 RealBadAngel i also have lotsa PRs to push tomorrow 01:43 RealBadAngel cya 04:28 est31 how could ever a version of minetest be released with mmdb? 04:36 kaeza I just noticed that the toggling the "double tap space to toggle fly" checkbox in the in-game key config dialog is ignored 04:37 kaeza togglign "use = descend" works, and both also work from the main menu 04:38 hmmmm blatantly ignored settings like that is a blocker for sure 04:39 hmmmm anyway who takes care of the website 04:39 hmmmm is it sfan or somebody else?? 04:39 est31 I think celeron55 hosts that domain. 04:39 hmmmm i don't think he does 04:40 est31 kaeza, can you file a bug at github? 04:40 hmmmm last i checked it was xyz and he transferred it to somebody else 04:40 est31 hmmmm, https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=12611 04:40 kaeza est31, sure 04:40 hmmmm ahh 04:40 hmmmm okay this is good 04:41 hmmmm erm est that post is from the year 2011 04:42 hmmmm if celeron did really host the forums, we'd be okay because he's been semi-active lately 04:42 hmmmm whereas sfan, not so much 04:42 hmmmm so the mmdb by definition relies on an outside source 04:42 est31 Forum is now hosted by celeron55 (report issues here) 04:42 est31 by celeron55 » Sat Jun 13, 2015 10:39 04:43 hmmmm we can't REMOVE mmdb, if anything maybe hide the tab if the server cannot be contacted 04:43 hmmmm oh whoops.. 04:43 hmmmm I read the "Joined" date 04:47 est31 there is a difference between network problems, and total not-hosting of the page. 04:47 est31 but yeah, perhaps better to hide the button "online mod repository" 04:49 hmmmm or why not just have text that says 04:49 hmmmm "Whoops! It seems like the MMDB is currently down. Sit tight!" or something to that effect 04:49 hmmmm better than a friggin "AsyncWorkerError: HTTP request returned error code 404" 04:50 * est31 remembers those vimeo "aww fiddlesticks" you got in the past if you didn't have flash, nor h264 html5 support 04:50 est31 you still get them today 04:50 est31 hmmmm, yes, if there is an error shown in the gui,, its ok 04:51 hmmmm it's trendy to make a goofy 404 error page instead of the serious business "not found" 04:51 est31 most people just dont see the debug.txt 04:51 hmmmm on the web interface to the thing I work on for work we have a sad puppy for internal server errors 04:51 hmmmm lol 04:52 est31 zaroo bugs found :) 04:52 hmmmm so just code that up really quick and then I have to fix up delete_area 04:52 hmmmm then we should be okay to release 04:53 * hmmmm crosses fingers 04:53 hmmmm I think we should release like 1 day after we're done with all the blockers instead of waiting out the full 2 extended weeks 04:57 est31 we should wait, for the case 3011 is indeed an engine fault 04:58 hmmmm you know what, I don't think it is 04:59 hmmmm I think what could be happening is that an errant mod goes crazy and accidentally deletes members from the global namespace 04:59 est31 also, we have to wait for mtgame to make a release tag. 05:00 hmmmm then some kind of runtime error happens soon after (of course) and then debug.traceback() has a runtime error when a) debug can't be accessed, b). traceback can't be accessed, or c). any one of the misc. functions it internally uses can't be accessed 05:00 est31 I've learned that the hard way 05:07 hmmmm btw why haven't you merged 3033 yet 05:08 hmmmm well celeron left a comment saying that he'd rather you use g_config->getS32 instead of getFloat 05:10 hmmmm oh by the way est, I looked at the PcgRandom comment a bit better and it is correct, but it demonstrates the math without the divmod optimization 05:10 hmmmm so the comment and the implementation is not 1 to 1 05:11 est31 ok 05:12 est31 getS32 isn't better than getFloat either, no? 05:12 est31 its all below 2^52, so everything goes well precision wise 05:13 hmmmm the max exponent on a float is 2^37 05:13 hmmmm 37 i mean 05:13 hmmmm it's just hacky to use a float where the thing you're using is actually an integer 05:14 est31 modern cpus have fast floats 05:15 hmmmm float to int conversion is very slow 05:16 est31 well its not important at all 05:16 est31 settings are slow already 05:17 est31 i think it takes 10 microseconds to request a key from the settings map 05:17 est31 but i might be weong 05:17 est31 wrong* 05:17 est31 is there no __CLASSNAME__ macro? 05:18 est31 typeid(*this).name() 05:18 est31 too long to be worth it 05:19 hmmmm i don't think that's a static expression 05:19 hmmmm it'd be evaluated on runtime, but even more, it'd force the compiler to use rtti 05:19 est31 this is hardly static 05:20 est31 I see 05:31 sfan5 whereas sfan, not so much 05:31 sfan5 me not really doing any dev work (except reviewing PRs) is nothing new 05:32 sfan5 also i have been "active" at making minetest builds and maintaining servers.minetest.net 05:36 hmmmm oh 05:36 hmmmm i mean i haven't seen you around lately 05:37 hmmmm in any case, are you able to fix forums.minetest.net/mmdb? 05:37 sfan5 no, c55 hosts that 05:38 sfan5 also i don't really have that much of an idea how mmdb works 05:51 est31 hmmmm, turns out the texture trick doesnt work 05:52 hmmmm alright then 05:57 est31 I'll prepare a PR then 06:02 est31 hrrmm, our server count is much larger than our player count 06:02 est31 which is good :) 06:23 hmmmm it is? 06:23 hmmmm anyway 06:23 hmmmm est, you know what you have to do to add a hud flag? 06:23 hmmmm i realize that minimap isn't officially part of the hud but it would be cleanest just to use that interface anyway 06:24 hmmmm and set VolatileRunFlags::show_minimap based on the presense of that flag 06:25 est31 hud flags are inflexible 06:25 hmmmm so add a brand new packet why don't you 06:25 est31 well yes one can add all the info as flags for the hug 06:25 est31 hud* 06:25 est31 every bit one flag 06:25 est31 just then you'll need lots of bits 06:26 est31 which means lots of flags 06:26 hmmmm i thought this was just being turned on/off 06:26 est31 thats the blocker part of the issue 06:26 est31 but only because its a blocker doesnt allow us to hack a solution 06:26 est31 instead of doing it properly 06:27 hmmmm we're in a feature freeze 06:27 est31 the problem with adding this as hud flag is that we'll have to support that hack for eternity 06:28 est31 and if people ask why, we'll have to explain that back in 2015 we had a feature freeze 06:28 hmmmm not necessarily 06:28 hmmmm i think it could be implemented as a hud item later on 06:28 est31 and rather did a quick hack than solving it properly 06:28 hmmmm it's better than the alternative (making a new set of packets for a single feature) 06:29 est31 the key press is instantly 06:29 est31 it should not rely on lag 06:29 hmmmm ? 06:29 est31 and if you allow mods to access the f9 key 06:29 est31 then you open the door for even more problems 06:29 hmmmm erm 06:29 est31 they'll code sprint under that key 06:29 est31 just because 06:29 hmmmm I don't get what you mean at all 06:29 est31 and it will be totally laggy 06:30 hmmmm my idea was to add HUD_FLAG_MINIMAP_VISIBLE 06:30 est31 hmmmm, you suggest the server turns minimap on/off? 06:30 hmmmm yes isn't that what you wanted?? 06:30 est31 the client sends whether there is a keypress 06:30 est31 and the server decides 06:30 est31 thats your solution, no? 06:30 hmmmm erm no 06:30 hmmmm that isn't my solution at all 06:31 hmmmm i have no idea how you interpreted my words that way 06:31 hmmmm here is my idea: 06:31 hmmmm in l_object.cpp, add HUD_FLAG_MINIMAP_VISIBLE to es_HudElementType, add it to l_set_flags and l_get_flags 06:32 kahrl [...] we'll have to support that hack for eternity 06:32 kahrl couldn't we just mark it as // EXPERIMENTAL now and later deprecate it? 06:32 hmmmm then in game.cpp just set flags.show_minimap = !!(localplayer->hud_flags & HUD_FLAG_MINIMAP_VISIBLE); 06:33 hmmmm i think that's a 10 line change 06:33 hmmmm oh of course you'd also have to add a check when F9 is pressed, if hud_flags & HUD_FLAG_MINIMAP_VISIBLE == 0, then the server must have disabled it 06:34 hmmmm and so change the message to 06:34 hmmmm "This server has disabled the minimap." 06:34 hmmmm in the amount of time it took me to explain this I could've coded it by now 06:34 hmmmm :| 06:34 est31 we should make it default on, too, IMO. 06:35 hmmmm it is default on 06:35 est31 so HUD_FLAGS_MINIMAP_DISABLED 06:35 hmmmm no 06:35 hmmmm stop it 06:35 hmmmm you make it default on by setting HUD_FLAGS_MINIMAP_VISIBLE in the Hud ctor 06:35 hmmmm look at the way all the other HUD things are done already 06:35 est31 but it only works on new servers 06:35 hmmmm don't reinvent things 06:35 est31 I dont reinvent anything 06:35 est31 I just say 06:35 est31 if its sent by the server 06:36 est31 then we have no way to find out whether its default off 06:36 est31 err 06:36 est31 we have no way to find out whether the server is onld 06:36 est31 old* 06:36 est31 or has disabled the feature 06:37 est31 and, no we dont raise protocol version just because of this 06:37 kahrl in Client::handleCommand_HudSetFlags we do hud_flags &= ~mask and hud_flags |= flags 06:37 kahrl so if the server doesn't send a flag it is unchanged 06:39 est31 I see 06:39 est31 ok then 06:39 est31 still, it should be HUD_FLAGS_MINIMAP_ENABLED rather 06:39 est31 not _VISIBLE 06:39 kahrl yeah I like that better 06:40 hmmmm this only controls the minimap visibility, though. 06:40 hmmmm you can't control if the client had initialized with the mapper 06:40 hmmmm besides, it's the same as all the other hud items 06:40 est31 the visibility is controlled by the client 06:40 hmmmm follow the pattern 06:40 est31 the other hud items are always shown 06:41 est31 except if you turn off the whole hud 06:41 hmmmm yeah 06:41 est31 but you can't say "only show me the inventory bar" on the client 06:41 hmmmm this is something that can be totally fixed in the next version when we would like to expand upon it 06:42 hmmmm as it stands right now, the minimap not being visible is a specific MinimapMode 06:42 hmmmm whereas HUD_FLAGS_MINIMAP_VISIBLE would control game.cpp's flags.draw_minimap 06:43 hmmmm so in order to see the minimap the user has to: 06:43 hmmmm - have the MinimapMode in a mode other than MINIMAP_MODE_OFF 06:43 hmmmm - have HUD_FLAGS_MINIMAP_VISIBLE set 06:43 hmmmm if either one of those conditions are false, then the minimap isn't shown to the user 06:44 hmmmm the first one is controlled by the client, 06:44 hmmmm the second one is controlled by the server 06:44 est31 it should put MinimapMode to force MINIMAP_MODE_OFF on login 06:44 est31 if it sees HUD_FLAGS_MINIMAP_VISIBLE 06:44 est31 to be not set 06:44 hmmmm sure, it can do that 06:44 hmmmm not necessarily on login 06:44 hmmmm stop putting game logic in weird places 06:44 est31 well, check it at every server step then 06:44 est31 err client 06:45 hmmmm on client draw 06:45 est31 players will love how fast it is 06:45 hmmmm there are obvious solutions to each of these objections of yours if you were to think about it for longer than 5 seconds 06:45 hmmmm stop being so negative 06:47 est31 the root problem is i think that localplayer has no notifications if hud_flags change 06:47 est31 notification* 06:47 est31 changes* 06:47 est31 it was perfectly fine for the other hud elements 06:47 est31 but minimap is special 06:47 hmmmm i think it's perfectly fine as well 06:47 est31 we have to change the minimap mode if its turned off 06:47 hmmmm there is no actual penalty to setting the minimap mode 06:48 est31 well, code it, and then lets talk again 07:01 RealBadAngel btw, last used minimap mode shall be saved and restored imho 07:19 hmmmm https://github.com/kwolekr/minetest/commit/ea88855ecef65e88c3aa92bbf5d75e2d6cb5b719 07:21 hmmmm and then after the release we'll change the game->mapper interface to be hud->mapper 07:22 hmmmm so you can do all the same things with a minimap that you can with the statbar, healthbar, etc. 08:00 est31 hmmmm, commented on your commit 08:00 est31 otherwise its good 08:01 est31 but please address the remarks before merging 08:02 est31 but I wonder where the mask gets changed 08:04 est31 ah I see how it works 08:04 est31 sorry for being a bit rude btw 08:05 hmmmm you seem like you're mad at something 08:05 hmmmm just fyi 08:12 est31 I'll try to be more kind 08:40 est31 kaeza, can you double tap jump perhaps a bit faster? 08:40 est31 does that work? 08:40 est31 I can't reproduce #3043 08:40 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3043 -- In-game key configuration dialog ignores "double tap space to toggle fly". 08:40 est31 the limit is 0.2 seconds 08:42 kaeza nope, it ignores the setting completely 08:43 kaeza i.e. if I disable it and click 'Save' I can still double tap 08:43 est31 ahh 08:43 est31 and if you restart? 08:43 kaeza it works if I restart, yes 08:44 est31 then I'll make the cache update 08:44 est31 that should work 08:44 est31 we'll perhaps get faster settings after 0.4.13 08:44 est31 but right now we have to cache them 08:44 est31 and users think the setting is ignored 08:55 kilbith so i tested client_mapblock_limit = 10 and the RAM is well restrained now 08:55 kilbith thanks a million, est31 08:55 est31 10 is a bit low 08:56 est31 but you can set it as you want :) 08:56 kilbith i prefer don't reach over 1 GB of RAM 08:56 kilbith simple, light and low-ressource 08:57 est31 I don't think a mapblock takes 1 MB RAM 08:58 est31 it would take at least 500 kb, if you get more than 1 GB ram with client_mapblock_limit = 1000 08:58 kilbith oops, i was watching at the overall OS consumption 08:58 kilbith nvm then 08:59 est31 happy time playing around kilbith :) 09:00 Calinou I set my view range to 256, and don't want to be restricted by that limit :) 09:00 kilbith minetest sticks under <350 MB 09:01 kilbith not as strict as MC, but good enough 10:07 est31 #3044 10:07 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3044 -- game.cpp: Update cached settings by est31 10:28 est31 interesting, our launchpad builds fail on 15.10 10:53 rubenwardy #3011 10:53 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3011 -- Periodic "Lua: error in error handling" crashes 10:54 rubenwardy I know how mmdb works and I am a developer for it 10:55 rubenwardy Well, contributor with write access 10:55 est31 can you get it back up? 10:55 rubenwardy no, celeron55 has to do that 10:55 rubenwardy there's documentation in the readme 10:56 rubenwardy It's an unrealistic project as it requires every mod to be registered. Minetest-Bower combined with MTPM Lists is much better as it fetches from the forum. 10:56 rubenwardy It also is a pain to update mods on 10:56 rubenwardy an absolute pain 10:57 est31 rubenwardy, agree. 10:57 est31 so you vote for removing the button? 10:57 rubenwardy (MTPM Lists is a forum parser) 10:57 rubenwardy I don't know, one day it could be made better 10:57 est31 well, as we have sandboxing, we can finally install untrusted mods 10:57 est31 yaay 10:58 est31 for that we have to turn sandboxing on by default 10:58 est31 but all these things are functional changes 11:17 T4im does it supply a secured implementation for require(), btw.? or did that end up blocked now 11:18 rubenwardy T4im, minetest.request_insecure_environment() is the only way 11:19 T4im rubenwardy: I know the workaround, I'm talking about a fix 11:19 T4im ;) 11:19 T4im we talked about that a while ago, just wondered if that was dropped or added 11:22 RealBadAngel bower is an excellent thingy 11:22 RealBadAngel i just fucking love it 11:23 RealBadAngel hail cornerote for it 11:23 T4im last time I checked bower installed dependencies without checking signatures of the installments for any form of injection/manipulation 11:24 T4im hope they fixed that by now :( 11:26 T4im oh wait, you're talking different bower, my bad 11:29 est31 wb T4im :) 11:29 T4im hey est31 :) 11:30 est31 ShadowNinja has supplied a require() impl, but it didnt get merged 11:30 est31 because replicating all the properties of the function is very hard and complicated 11:31 T4im oh ok 11:33 est31 also, we have depends.txt, we dont need require 11:34 T4im require can be helpful within a mod, or if you still remember mtt when including external libraries that make use of it (that otherwise would go through mod_security, if it weren't for the require) 11:36 kilbith est31: something i don't understand with mapblocks limit, you set the limit to 1000 (1000*16 nodes = half of the map) 11:36 est31 half of the map? 11:36 kilbith but before you needed less than that for overwhelming your RAM 11:36 kilbith with 4 GB of RAM 11:36 kilbith yes, a mapblock = 16^3 nodes 11:37 kilbith 1000 mapblocks = 16000^3 nodes 11:37 est31 no 11:37 est31 1000 mapblocks == 1000 * (16^3) nodes 11:37 est31 1000 * (16^3) != (1000 * 16)^3 11:38 kilbith this is what i'm saying 11:38 T4im I think it's also a radius, so you have 1000 into each direction from the center, don't you? 11:38 kilbith you allow caching half of the map 11:38 kilbith it's still way too much 11:38 est31 no 11:38 est31 the map is much more 11:39 est31 1000 mapblocks, thats even less than a mapgen chunk 11:39 kilbith 31000/16 = ~1950 nodes 11:39 kilbith oops 11:39 kilbith ~1950 mapblocks 11:41 est31 kilbith, so you say a cubic meter of water has only 10 liters, because one liter is 10 cm ^3 ? 11:41 T4im (62k^3)/16 = ~1.48 * 10^13 11:41 T4im 1.49* 11:42 kilbith when i wrote "31000/16" it means in all dirs 11:44 kilbith so yeah, there around 1950 mapblocks on the map 11:45 kilbith 31000*31000*31000 nodes = 2.9791e+13 nodes 11:45 kilbith 1937*16 * 1937*16 * 1937*16 = 2.9791e+13 nodes 11:46 est31 31000 / 16 * 31000 / 16 * 31000/16 = 7273193359 11:46 est31 thats how many mapblocks exist on the map 11:48 kilbith it's correct 11:48 kilbith 7273193359*(16*16*16) = 2.9791e+13 nodes 11:51 kilbith well, miscalculation then sorry 11:57 T4im 58185546875 * 11:58 T4im you only described on of 8 quadrants 11:58 T4im one* 11:58 T4im and I misscalculated too up there by forgetting the cube in the mapblocksize :D 12:31 amadin can i speak with developer who added redis support to server? 14:10 paramat nore sfan5 game#620 is ready to go please can you review? 14:10 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/620 -- Flowers: Add sporeless mushrooms by paramat 14:17 paramat 1000 mapblocks is 1000/125 = 8 = 2^3 mapchunks, a really small volume 14:27 Wayward_One The latest git keeps crashing without an error message for me 14:27 Wayward_One Tried after a git pull and a fresh clone 14:29 Wayward_One Also, debug.txt is empty 14:33 VanessaE nothing at all on the console? 14:33 rubenwardy gdb? 14:34 VanessaE can you build in debug mode and get a gdb backtrace? 14:34 VanessaE damn it, ninja's 14:34 VanessaE 'd* 14:34 Wayward_One Trying with the console now 14:34 Wayward_One So far, it's only when joining a server 14:34 rubenwardy what to do... 14:35 VanessaE what the... 14:35 VanessaE it doesn't crash for me, but there's ZERO console output now 14:35 Wayward_One Hmm, seg fault for me 14:35 VanessaE vanessa@rainbird:~$ minetest 14:35 VanessaE 14:36 VanessaE AL lib: (WW) FreeDevice: (0x3517390) Deleting 51 Buffer(s) 14:36 VanessaE vanessa@rainbird:~$ 14:36 VanessaE this is bad. 14:36 rubenwardy explicitly set log level? 14:37 VanessaE my debug.txt has only this: 14:37 VanessaE http://pastebin.com/GJwkJTvB 14:39 VanessaE (however I can hit that URL just fine in a browser) 14:39 rubenwardy doesn't happen to me 14:40 VanessaE Wayward_One: file an issue. include my paste and comments 14:40 VanessaE (nearly no console output and debug.txt is bad) 14:40 Wayward_One Will do 14:41 VanessaE I mean include my paste/comments secondary to your experience, of course :) 14:41 VanessaE are you able to sign onto SC-Skyblock? 14:41 VanessaE that's where I was when I tried it. 14:42 Wayward_One Hmm, I'll try 14:42 VanessaE ("skyblock server" in the public list, stormchaser3000.noip.me:30001) 14:43 Wayward_One Yep, seg fault again 14:44 VanessaE ok. 14:45 rubenwardy Wayward_One, use gdb to find the origin :P bt full 14:59 kilbith i confirm the Wayward_One report and i caught a gdb trace on joining a server 14:59 kilbith here it is : http://pastie.org/10348657 14:59 kilbith est31, if you read me 15:00 Wayward_One https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3047 15:21 rubenwardy kilbith, bt full ? 15:21 celeron55 i tried this, and reproduced it, but once i ran it in gdb the crash disappeared 15:22 celeron55 hmm i think i just got this when running in valgrind 15:22 celeron55 i mean, memcheck 15:23 celeron55 http://fpaste.org/254808/94793871/ 15:29 est31 ill look @ the regression later 15:29 est31 busy atm 15:31 celeron55 it's probably caused by this: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/a8e238ed06ee8285ed4459e9deda3117419837f6?diff=unified#diff-ab005ad9757130721ffb66a09833090aR1502 15:32 celeron55 when mapblock_queue is empty 15:32 celeron55 if i am not mistaken 15:41 celeron55 can someone test this? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3047#issuecomment-130732141 15:42 celeron55 (i can't trust my tests in a timing-related issue like this) 15:44 celeron55 (or, well it's probably right, but i won't push it without confirmation) 15:50 Amaz celeron55, it seems to work for me. 15:58 est31 celeron55, even if it doesnt fix the bug, it probably has to be done 15:58 est31 but most likely it will fix the bug 15:59 est31 I have tested my patch 15:59 est31 but might have missed setting the timeout back to default 15:59 est31 so I've tested it so that there is always an element with mapblock_queue.top().block->getUsageTimer() > unload_timeout 15:59 est31 before the end 16:01 est31 +1 16:04 celeron55 pushed 16:05 celeron55 it was actually a bit more than half a year since my previous commit... it sure felt like it too 16:05 celeron55 no, actually a bit less; well whatever 16:07 celeron55 well, i went ahead and closed the issue; it's highly likely that this was the fix 16:08 est31 the crash was most likely in the top method 16:08 est31 it makes very much sense 16:10 celeron55 the reason why people didn't catch that earlier was probably that it doesn't occur on fast development setups; instead it occurred on slow connections and laggy servers 16:10 celeron55 i guess a fast server tends to push a block to the client before the client runs that code... at least that would make sense 16:11 VanessaE no negative effect here but console output is still (nearly) dead 16:11 VanessaE (not that your commit had anything to do with that) 16:12 est31 I've explained the reason I didnt catch it above 16:12 est31 also I've only tested singleplayer 16:13 Wayward_One Works for me as well 16:19 BlockMen Do we release a 2nd RC? 16:22 VanessaE I think paramat has a mushrooms change to go into mt_game, might want to wait for that 16:26 BlockMen VanessaE, k 16:29 BlockMen could someone test #3041? it should fix all those nodebox-sneaking issues 16:29 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3041 -- Fix sneaking (fixes #329 and #665) by BlockMen 16:31 VanessaE shouldn't the player only rise to the top of the collision box they're standing in/on? rather than just whatever's highest in the whole node? 16:32 est31 thats what I've said too 16:32 est31 take the height at the border 16:32 BlockMen VanessaE, yes. it actually does now. havent updated the desc 16:32 VanessaE oh ok. 16:32 VanessaE you should do that :P 16:33 BlockMen well, at least it worked now when i tested it today 17:40 est31 Pushing #3044 in 10 minutes if nobody objects 17:40 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3044 -- game.cpp: Update cached settings by est31 17:40 est31 its fairly trivial 17:40 est31 just lots of code copy 17:47 paramat nore sfan5 please can i push game#620 ? 17:47 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/620 -- Flowers: Add sporeless mushrooms by paramat 17:47 est31 why mapgen mushrooms? 17:48 est31 if something grows from the spores, you get the "mapgen" mushrooms too, no? 17:48 nore same question 17:48 nore perhaps mushroom_with_spores_ 17:49 nore also, it should have not_in_creative_inventory = 1 in groups 17:49 paramat yes mushrooms growing from spores will be 'mapgen' mushrooms, hm 17:49 paramat i was trying to find a reasonable name, 'unpicked' 'spored' ? 17:50 est31 "with spores" ? 17:50 paramat sure which should be in creative inventory? 17:50 kahrl you could also use the same content id for both but a different param2 17:51 est31 what if we want to make them look differently? 17:51 nore paramat: the one that you can pick in normal gameplay, i.e. the sporeless should be the one in creative inventory 17:51 kahrl then not :) 17:51 est31 also, then the description would then need to be in the meta 17:51 nore kahrl: mushrooms are plantlike 17:51 est31 if it differs between spores and spored 17:52 est31 and it does 17:52 nore so I guess param2 would rotate them 17:52 paramat nore agreed 17:52 kahrl nore, oh yeah 17:53 kahrl it's really confusing that those have paramtype2 = "none" yet the engine still cares about param2 17:53 nore even in paramtype2 is none ? 17:53 kahrl yeah, pretty sure 17:54 nore hm... 17:54 est31 cares in which sense? 17:54 nore I thought there was a plantlike paramtype2, but I must have confused with something else 17:54 kahrl est31: rotation angle 17:54 est31 thats bad 17:55 paramat nore sfan5 also game#622 is nearly ready, just a final tweak to the texture to do 17:55 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/622 -- Default: New grass textures, new footsteps overlay texture WIP by paramat 17:55 est31 I would agree that it stores the param2 in the map, so it doesnt actively ignore it 17:55 est31 but using it for rotation is wrong IMO 17:55 est31 but changing that should be done after the release 17:55 sfan5 game#622 looks goode paramat 17:55 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/622 -- Default: New grass textures, new footsteps overlay texture WIP by paramat 17:55 sfan5 i'll look at 620 later 17:56 VanessaE +1 on 622 also. 17:56 paramat nore sfan5 comments on game#581 ? i suggest steelblock and straw, any others you want in for 0.4.13? 17:56 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/581 -- New stairs and slabs discussion 17:56 nore 622 looks good to me too 17:56 paramat thanks 17:56 sfan5 paramat: straw? 17:57 nore paramat: straw looks good, for steel I think other metal blocks should have it too 17:58 paramat straw for thatched roofs, i'm not too bothered about straw 17:58 nore but that would bloat creative inventory, so we need a way to fix that 17:59 nore btw, sfan5, paramat: did you look at game#626 ? 17:59 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/626 -- Add needed tileable flags for grass nodes by RealBadAngel 17:59 sfan5 oh 17:59 paramat okay, but for 0.4.13 just steel, or all metal blocks? 17:59 sfan5 straw = hay 17:59 sfan5 straw slabs hm 17:59 sfan5 I'm not sure 18:00 VanessaE sfan5: cottages mod has various shapes of straw 18:00 VanessaE and I think one of the mods in plantlife also adds some similar nodes. 18:01 VanessaE paramat: all metal blocks. 18:01 paramat yeah 626 has some odd already merged stuff in it, needs redoing 18:01 VanessaE (but not diamond, that'd be as stupid as coal block stairs :P ) 18:01 paramat hehe 18:02 paramat finally i will prepare a PR for new junglewood and jungletree top, using Vanessa'a initial 619 texture, plus my dark junglewood shown in #611 18:02 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/611 -- Animation blending. by blue42u 18:02 paramat arg game#611 18:02 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/611 -- Junglewood texture too light, boring 18:03 VanessaE paramat: you mean this one: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/611#issuecomment-129258990 18:03 VanessaE or the one right after? 18:04 paramat for new grass i was thinking of making it very slightly lighter fro a closer match to the 0.4.10 texture 18:04 est31 Pushing #3044 18:04 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3044 -- game.cpp: Update cached settings by est31 18:04 VanessaE nah what you have now seems good to me. about the footsteps: make them show some dirt also maybe? 18:04 paramat the initial 619 texture that had approval form 2 devs 18:04 VanessaE ok 18:05 paramat (from) 18:05 paramat i was thinking the footprints could be usable for other materials in future? 18:05 VanessaE of course. 18:05 VanessaE I just meant footprints over grass 18:06 VanessaE you should be able to composite in default dirt using the footprint as a mask layer 18:06 paramat well it's an overlay texture, so if i add dirt pixels it can't be used for sand etc 18:06 VanessaE something like how fence inv is done 18:08 paramat so there's talk of a release in a few days, i can get game ready to go for the end of the weekend but no sooner, please dont release without talking to me first! =) 18:09 paramat ah 626 is closed by RBA, would be nice to have it though for 0.4.13 18:10 VanessaE paramat: about masking, i mean make the footprints just a translucent greyscale image, use it to clip out some dirt at a very low opacity, overlay that onto the grass. If used on e.g. sand or snow, you'd just directly overlay the greyscale image without the extra masking step to get a dark footprint. 18:10 est31 game#626 18:10 paramat okay thanks 18:10 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/626 -- Add needed tileable flags for grass nodes by RealBadAngel 18:10 est31 #626 18:10 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/626 -- fix memory leak on sound shutdown by sapier 18:10 paramat heh 18:10 luizrpgluiz that strange, for me the release candidate is too good to be launched, the mapgens the v5 and v7 are very good 18:11 nore paramat: it can be merged anyway 18:12 paramat nore game626? commit needs editing and approval from RBA 18:12 nore hm... 18:13 nore RealBadAngel: can we merge game#626 ? 18:13 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/626 -- Add needed tileable flags for grass nodes by RealBadAngel 18:13 VanessaE paramat: you would need two footprint images though to make it work (one with the totally-transparent perimeter replaced by some solid color that you could chroma-key against dirt, one without, for the plain overlay on sand et al.) 18:13 luizrpgluiz out that on some computers home here could not see the minimap in the game even activating it in the config minetest release canditate 18:13 VanessaE you can figure it out :) 18:14 paramat meh well maybe eventually, for release i'll leave it as is 18:14 VanessaE ok. 18:17 paramat okay i assume i have approval for the mushroom commit once i rename to 'mushroom_with_spores_..' and do the 'not in creative inventory' thing. will push later 18:17 luizrpgluiz VanessaE is right for me common player the game is in good condition, outside the bugs that appeared in the git hub to be arranged also 18:17 VanessaE wat 18:18 luizrpgluiz Paramat just need to fix some bugs mapgen appearing on git hub 18:21 VanessaE can someone please interpret that? :P 18:21 luizrpgluiz hehe,sorry for my english 18:27 luizrpgluiz the Paramat may have tidy bugs before releasing the candidate releace :) 18:27 luizrpgluiz on mapgen :D 18:27 paramat there are some minor mapgen bugs but that's for after release, i'm too busy preparing mtgame 18:28 luizrpgluiz :) 18:30 luizrpgluiz yes, this is good because it is very important to fix bugs in the game map generator 18:31 kahrl nore: IANAL but I think by posting the PR one implicitly releases the code under the project's license, which in the case of copyleft licenses can't be retroactively retracted 18:31 est31 well, you can claim its gpl 18:31 est31 and has been all the time 18:32 est31 and if its new media files, its even easier 18:32 est31 but IANAL too 18:32 VanessaE thing is there is chain of evidence 18:32 VanessaE the commit ID 18:33 VanessaE so posting a PR and getting it merged is an explicit offer to re-license your code if it's not already properly licensed. 18:33 nore kahrl: well, I said that because of PilzAdam's comment 18:33 VanessaE and if someone were to sue, I'm sure github would have no trouble coughing up the commit logs :P 18:33 nore but IANAL either 18:46 paramat i'll make a stairs mod PR for steel, copper, bronze blocks and straw (not coal, gold, mese, diamond) 18:47 nore paramat: gold could have stairs too 18:48 paramat hm perhaps.. 18:59 paramat okay sure gold too 19:01 VanessaE also check the model itself, I think I noticed a z-fighting issue when "inside" it once (noclip). same will happen if someone (e.g. Calinou) uses the default model to make say glass stairs (say moreblocks switches to using it) 19:02 VanessaE yep, it does. 19:03 VanessaE solution via RBA: scale the whole model up just a tiny amount (I'd say to 100.05 percent of current size?) so that the overlapping stair faces get buried under their neighbors. 19:04 VanessaE (I guess at that point, irrlicht or the driver will cull them since they're hidden?) 19:05 VanessaE reference image: http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/screenshots/random/Screenshot_2015-08-13_15-05-05.png 19:06 VanessaE doesn't happen with slabs since they're not a mesh 19:31 paramat is it a problem if only seen when inside? seems best to have the exact proper size 19:33 VanessaE for solid textures yeah 19:34 VanessaE but if someone uses the stairs model to produce stairs of any translucent material, it'll be visible from the outside too 19:34 VanessaE maybe just turn on basic backface culling then? 19:35 VanessaE s/translucent/non-opaque/ 19:36 paramat i see 19:36 VanessaE (this can be done with the "special tiles" node def option, but not with regular tiles) 19:40 paramat changing stairs to meshes seems to have caused problems, sometimes i think we should go back to the nodebox 19:40 VanessaE nah, the best thing to do is fixed the problems instead 19:41 VanessaE using one mesh means now all mods out there that create stairs can refer to it. 19:41 VanessaE that means less code to plough through,t oo 19:44 VanessaE (I am of course ignoring the stairs mod's API) 19:46 paramat agreed 19:48 VanessaE by the way, is there any kind of ref counting or indexing used to display the same model over and over? 19:49 VanessaE (I mean, for example, is each node in a long staircase its own unique mesh? or does the driver/library fetch the same block of mesh data over and over for each stair?) 20:43 hmmmm does anybody know how to use the capturetheflag game? 20:44 hmmmm i put it in games/, create a world in it, start the world, and i get this: 2015-08-13 16:39:22: ERROR[main]: mod "ctf_match" has unsatisfied dependencies: "ctf" "ctf_flag" 20:44 hmmmm isn't the game supposed to include that? 20:49 est31 hmmmm, can you add my ideas to the acceptance criteria? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3051#issuecomment-130836394 20:49 hmmmm well hold on 20:49 hmmmm zoom is covered under 'mode' 20:50 hmmmm anyway now that RBA isn't around anymore i can speak a little free-er about this... the concept of minimap modes suck 20:50 hmmmm zoom should be its own variable, shape should be its own variable, radar/surface should be its own variable 20:50 hmmmm the way it is now just adds repetitiveness to code 20:50 est31 if its client set, we need to specify it 20:50 est31 its perfectly fine what RBA did 20:50 hmmmm we'll cover all this stuff when we rework the minimap 20:51 est31 well, it seems you agree to what I say then 20:52 hmmmm this story basically boils down to "the minimap needs a lot of work" 20:53 est31 lots of areas need a lot of work 20:53 est31 right now its very limited 20:53 hmmmm yeah 20:53 est31 just like minecraft hardcoding the nodedefs 20:54 est31 we have to get it to minetest niveau 20:54 hmmmm minecraft isn't better than minetest, it just has different problems 20:54 est31 and send the modedefs at connection 20:54 hmmmm I like to think we're doing okay for a bunch of volunteers 20:54 est31 hmmmm, I've meant it the other way, minetest is better than minecraft :) 20:54 hmmmm of course 20:54 hmmmm minecraft seems to have more features and is more polished etc. 20:54 est31 but yeah, it has areas where it shines and we dont 20:55 hmmmm it's easy to do this when everything is hardcoded 20:55 est31 ^ 20:55 est31 and when you can hire devs for money 20:55 hmmmm right 20:55 hmmmm if we were working on minecraft, then we'd already be done with the minimap and we'd move onto the next feature 20:56 est31 yea. 20:56 est31 we have the flag, thats all what our users need 20:56 hmmmm it's what they need right now :) 20:57 hmmmm in any case I don't need to really modify my own comment to add on your bullet points... do I? 20:57 hmmmm just add "Additional criteria" 20:57 est31 ok 20:57 kahrl if we were working on minecraft, we'd be randomly shuffling packet ids around each protocol version :D http://wiki.vg/Pre-release_protocol#Use_Item 20:57 est31 minecraft is a game, minetest is an engine xD 21:00 est31 and about this error showing on mod list errors hmmmm, it turns out that this stupid code just sets an empty json tree value, on the case an error occurs, and continues 21:00 est31 so the only way to check it is with some emptiness check 21:00 hmmmm well, however it needs to be done :) 21:00 est31 or to change the whole http json fetching api 21:01 est31 I'd either have to return std::pair 21:01 est31 or work with references/pointers 21:01 est31 or use exceptions 21:01 est31 or the easiest, just simply make the emptiness check 21:02 hmmmm right now i'd favor simple solutions 21:02 hmmmm I think that it's okay to add hacks, as long as you make an issue on github to fix it the proper way later on and promise to not forget about it 21:03 est31 I'll look to where that API is used 21:04 est31 I guess not much more than mainmenu lua 21:04 est31 and if there is an error with fetching the data, we just return nil 21:04 est31 and as the second param an error message 21:31 hmmmm hrm :( 21:31 hmmmm well I am trying my hardest but I can't get delete_area to crash 21:31 hmmmm rubenwardy says the map gets stuck after using it, but the only thing that gets stuck is the serverthread because it's so damn slow 21:31 hmmmm because sqlite 21:32 est31 I got it crash with a sqlite map 21:45 hmmmm so rubenwardy's CTF game wants to delete 9261 blocks 21:45 hmmmm each block takes anywhere from 37 microseconds to 250 milliseconds to even 130 milliseconds (probably when the db flushes to disk) 21:46 hmmmm erm, i mean 25 milliseconds 21:46 hmmmm 130 milliseconds is the max 21:46 hmmmm what he actually wants to do is delete the map 21:47 hmmmm anyway the slowness can be solved by putting sqlite in async mode or just dropping the old db and deleting the file, starting anew 21:47 est31 his usecase would work with deleteing the file I gues 21:47 est31 s 21:48 est31 but the general problem wont be solved 21:48 hmmmm async sqlite could be dangerous 21:59 rubenwardy hmmmm: the capturetheflag game uses submodules, you need to --recursive 22:00 rubenwardy my VPS uses a SSD and it takes roughly 3 seconds to delete 160^3 22:03 rubenwardy when in the capturetheflag game, you can use /ctf_next to trigger a delete_blocks. Providing you have the ctf_admin priv 22:04 est31 do you have mods there? 22:04 est31 mobs 22:04 est31 sorry :) 22:05 rubenwardy no 22:07 rubenwardy http://github.com/rubenwardy/capturetheflag for the subgame. Most of the code is in a modpack, which is included as a submodule in the subgame: http://github.com/rubenwardy/ctf_pvp_engine 22:09 est31 can you replicate the crash in singleplayer? 22:13 est31 hrmmm cant reproduce the crash either 22:13 est31 but hmmmm I can remember seeing the crash on a server 22:13 est31 I have issued that delete_area call 22:16 rubenwardy I'm using the latest dev, and the server hasn't crashed in five days. I've stopped killing it at midnight, so it's been up all that time. The map blocks getting stuck doesn't happen either. 22:16 rubenwardy i stopped the server today when i rebooted my vps to install updates. 22:16 rubenwardy and forgot to restart it 22:17 rubenwardy well, latest dev as of five days ago 22:17 rubenwardy remember that I posted stack tracebacks of segfaults in V's unexplained crashes thread. 22:19 rubenwardy Anyway, gotta sleep now. I'll read the logs. 22:24 luizrpgluiz in which the file is hosted pvp code of minetest? 22:25 luizrpgluiz it is in some .cpp file or in any file .lua 22:57 luizrpgluiz would be very good in some future update has just enabled pvp in just in one or more areas in minetest 23:26 hmmmm i'd answer but i have no idea what hosted pvp is 23:26 hmmmm est31: are you sure the delete_area crash wasn't fixed already? 23:32 luizrpgluiz hehe,My idea would be to enable the pvp in certain map areas 23:32 luizrpgluiz or off pvp also in areas determined by the server administrators