Time Nick Message
00:30 * VanessaE smacks hmmmm around a bit with a large OOM error :)
03:40 VanessaE hmmmm: Any chance we can get 0.4.13 to be released in the form of a self-extracting archive of some kind?
03:40 VanessaE zip or 7z or whatever is convenient
04:02 hmmmm what do you mean? aren't releases already made as .zip
04:49 paramat now pushing geme#614
04:49 paramat game#614
04:50 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/614 -- Default/trees: Combine sapling ABMs into one ABM by paramat
04:54 paramat complete
06:12 paramat this one needs discussion game#616
06:12 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/616 -- Default: Rename tree nodes and textures to underscore versions by paramat
08:00 paramat this is better game#617
08:00 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/617 -- Default: Rename pine tree nodes, textures and mapgen aliases by paramat
08:22 paramat ^ sfan5
11:03 est31 nore, can you review some french translation changes?
11:04 est31 first this https://github.com/est31/minetest/commit/5ffb752d3ae4ba14729d7301be544a6e8fbf51ce
11:04 est31 and https://github.com/est31/minetest/commit/5622fb2cee6d86f0220ea5773ec78f5f2f6714c3
11:05 est31 also somebody needed for russian https://github.com/est31/minetest/commit/247dda5005ae35f6047008938aadd5efcd78a494
11:05 est31 say if they are ok, then I'll push them all
11:08 est31 Me wonders whether "По Ñтому пути мира нет:" is a good translation for "Provided world path doesn't exist: "
11:09 est31 google translator gives "In this way there is no peace:"
11:18 est31 russian looks good too
11:21 est31 except that single string
11:22 est31 any russian speakers here?
11:23 est31 ah
11:23 est31 google translator gives me for "мира нет" "there is no peace"
11:23 est31 but for "мира" it gives me world
11:24 est31 now нет is "no", know that much russian
11:24 est31 guess its ok then
11:24 est31 pushing the translations
11:51 VanessaE hmmmm: of course they're zip, but they're not self-extracting i.e. you can't just "run" the file to have it extract. Seems like a lot of people who are otherwise intelligent players can't figure out the concept of unzip -> cd to minetest/bin -> execute minetest.exe, so I figured, why not a self-extracting archive that handles all of these steps? (plus a dialog box on first-run that tells the user where to find the
11:51 VanessaE game next time around)
12:10 Calinou we should have a proper NSIS installer...
12:10 Calinou that's all
12:10 Calinou and portable .zip builds for those who want it
12:20 kaeza I wrote this long ago, FWIW: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4245
12:21 VanessaE the important part of that thread: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=67020#p67020
12:22 nore est31: the translations look good
12:35 kaeza related: https://github.com/kaeza/minetest/commit/3285bc69afe7ae750af9040616b51757f94dd312
12:52 paramat nore sfan5 any comments/approval for game#617 ?
12:52 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/617 -- Default: Rename pine tree nodes, textures and mapgen aliases by paramat
12:54 nore paramat: looks good
12:54 nore but I think jungletrees could be changed too
12:55 nore aliases aren't that expensive
12:57 paramat yeah perhaps, sfan5 may prefer that too
12:58 paramat if so there are some issues to consider in 616
13:00 VanessaE paramat: I don't recall seeing an answer:
13:00 VanessaE if A is aliased to B, and C comes along that's aliased to A, will C = B or will the engine throw an error?
13:01 paramat i dunno
13:12 paramat that may be another reason to try avoiding aliases. also the jungle node names may be the wrong form but they are consistent as a group and players are used to them
13:12 paramat how about i push this as is, then we can consider the jungle names later?
13:21 nore VanessaE: I think it will work
13:21 nore I am not completely sure though
13:24 kahrl as I recall, it will work as long as the alias from A to B is defined earlier than the alias from C to A
13:24 kahrl (so that the definition of A can be looked up at the time C is defined)
13:25 twoelk no alias database? ;-P
18:30 est31 VanessaE, no, its not transitive: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/990a96578f20244626b6b9f67f8e79a7e2e614ea/src/itemdef.cpp#L222
18:30 est31 and here too https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/990a96578f20244626b6b9f67f8e79a7e2e614ea/src/itemdef.cpp#L281
18:31 VanessaE ok
18:31 est31 kaeza, it would be great to have an installer
18:31 VanessaE in which case game#617 is gonna break things.
18:31 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/617 -- Default: Rename pine tree nodes, textures and mapgen aliases by paramat
18:31 est31 but I have no windows to do it, so you'll have to convince a minetest dev with windows
18:32 VanessaE kaeza is not here.
18:32 est31 i know
18:32 est31 tab complete didnt work :((
18:35 est31 BlockMen uploads the windows version at around 00:00 CEST, so in around 3 hours 25 minutes
18:42 est31 ok hmmmm kahrl nore nrzkt sfan5 Tesseract, last call, to propose any changes to the core engine
18:43 est31 and I dunno about minetest_game, will have to ask paramat which things he wants in until 0.4.13
18:43 sfan5 est31: you'll also need to tell me to make a build
18:44 est31 which build do you want to do?
18:44 sfan5 mingw
18:44 sfan5 and it's not "want"
18:45 VanessaE make them self-extracting zip/7z please
18:45 est31 which builds does blockmen make?
18:45 sfan5 i don't think anyone else has a build env working
18:45 sfan5 msvc
18:45 est31 ok
18:45 VanessaE let's finally make it easy for users to install.
18:45 sfan5 VanessaE: if you tell me how to do that with p7zip i can do that
18:45 est31 ok
18:45 VanessaE sfan5: http://www.wikihow.com/Use-7Zip-to-Create-Self-Extracting-excutables
18:45 sfan5 i know how to use the gui
18:46 VanessaE looks pretty simple, but no idea how you'd script it
18:46 sfan5 there is no 7zip gui on linux
18:46 VanessaE zeno had something the that though
18:46 VanessaE damned if I can remember
18:46 est31 also, we need sb to create a changelog
18:46 kahrl what about the blockers?
18:46 Warr1024 making 7z sfx isn't hard...
18:46 kahrl #3011 #2653 #2145
18:46 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3011 -- ERROR[main]: Lua: error in error handling
18:46 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2653 -- (Another) Possible memory leak
18:46 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2145 -- Multi-second lag in default singleplayer game
18:47 VanessaE release can't be made until those ^^^^^ are fixed
18:47 Warr1024 it's just the 7z sfx module with the archive concatenated after it.
18:47 VanessaE and any blockers that were for some previous version that has been pushed back
18:47 est31 the issue has been created january
18:47 est31 in
18:47 est31 the last one
18:47 VanessaE sfan: https://netbeansscribbles.wordpress.com/2015/01/30/creating-a-self-extracting-7zip-archive-multi-platform/
18:48 est31 thats before 0.4.12
18:48 Warr1024 the *.sfx file is just an exe blob. cat 7z.sfx archive.7z >install.exe
18:48 Warr1024 there can be an optional config file (plain-text) that can be catted between.
18:48 kahrl the blocker label was added only 19 days ago though
18:48 sfan5 VanessaE: thanks ill look at that
18:50 hmmmm est31: Hold on a minute
18:50 hmmmm why are you releasing in a known bad state
18:50 est31 what are your issues?
18:50 hmmmm how about all the graphical regressions on android
18:51 hmmmm and then what about the ATI/intel issues
18:51 hmmmm and then there are these unknown problems with delete_area
18:51 est31 they existed before too
18:51 hmmmm and what about the race conditions?
18:51 est31 graphical regressions on android?
18:53 est31 is it ATI/intel, and not just old GL API version?
18:53 est31 also do you mean #2866 with it
18:53 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2866 -- Graphical regression.
18:58 est31 hmmmm, is it that issue, or some other github issue?
19:01 est31 The "possible memory leak" one requires imo a deep rewrite of when we delete mapblocks from the scene
19:01 est31 about 3011, it seems to be of recent origin?
19:01 VanessaE est31: also #2350
19:01 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2350 -- Wielded is glichted on certain OpenGL versions
19:01 VanessaE this seems to be affecting more people than was originally though
19:01 VanessaE thought*
19:01 est31 I mean, is it our fault, or is it just modders assigning their errors to the engine
19:02 VanessaE plus there are fps regressions
19:03 VanessaE the more map that's loaded, the lower your FPS, to the point of the autotuner really having to scale back your view range for the same scene as would have produced higher fps right after login
19:03 VanessaE and then there's the autotuner itself not scaling back the range properly from time to time as well
19:04 est31 and about 2350, which options need to be enabled?
19:04 VanessaE (wanted fps: 30. actual? say 20 with a view range of 100+)
19:04 est31 can you add that perhaps as github comment
19:04 est31 "I can reproduce this with no option enabled"
19:04 est31 or "only if fsaa is set"
19:04 est31 and so on
19:04 VanessaE no idea
19:04 VanessaE WSDguy is the latest victim of it
19:10 hmmmm what's 3011?
19:10 hmmmm #3011
19:10 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3011 -- ERROR[main]: Lua: error in error handling
19:10 hmmmm oh
19:10 hmmmm yeah if we release a minetest where people get error in error handling problems every 3-4 hours that's not too good
19:11 hmmmm i don't think there needs to be a release right now, personally
19:12 hmmmm also what ever happened to the Android stuttering issue
19:12 nrzkt hmmmm: agree
19:12 VanessaE I agree, hmmmm
19:12 VanessaE (sorry est :) )
19:12 est31 stuttering?
19:13 hmmmm wasn't there a stuttering using the softfp abi?
19:13 hmmmm stuttering issue
19:13 est31 ah that one
19:13 est31 the "looking around is jittery" one?
19:13 hmmmm yeah
19:13 est31 that one wayward says is old, but he only opened the report recently
19:14 est31 #2998
19:14 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2998 -- [Android] Looking around is jittery
19:14 hmmmm plus TBC_x is in the process of fixing some race conditions iirc
19:14 hmmmm what's going on with #2999?
19:14 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2999 -- Fixes a freeze on the phone or NativeActivity LockScreen by MoNTE48
19:14 est31 thats only an issue if we target a newer api version
19:14 VanessaE note also the crash-on-exit-to-menu that I get sometimes
19:15 hmmmm crash on exit to menu usually means the server isn't getting cleaned up correctly
19:15 hmmmm like a double free or use after free
19:15 est31 or the client
19:15 est31 can happen with it too
19:15 hmmmm it's almost always the server :).
19:15 est31 I had it multiple times on the client
19:15 est31 while connecting to a server :)
19:16 hmmmm :(
19:16 VanessaE I'm talking strictly about client exit-to-menu while on a server.
19:16 est31 but dont have much singleplayer experience
19:16 est31 perhaps its more often there
19:16 hmmmm well if we can reproduce that
19:16 VanessaE (though I'm sure it happens on sp also)
19:19 est31 its hard to fix these bugs
19:19 est31 the memory leak is one of the easiest to reproduce
19:20 est31 but the other ones, are all hard to repro
19:20 est31 and about android, I have no idea how the bug is created
19:20 hmmmm i don't want to release software with such blatant problems
19:20 hmmmm why the rush for a release??
19:21 est31 I dont even have an idea about #2973
19:21 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2973 -- [Android] No text on main menu
19:21 est31 hmmmm, do you think we should wait?
19:21 hmmmm absolutely...
19:21 est31 how long?
19:21 est31 6 months?
19:21 est31 8?
19:21 hmmmm not how long
19:21 hmmmm until things get solid
19:22 est31 we should make a clear list of issues
19:22 hmmmm i'm not counting months here, i'm counting severity and how common the known bugs are
19:22 est31 in github
19:22 est31 so that we can track them
19:22 hmmmm they have the blocker tag on them don't theY?
19:22 est31 not just "i remember someone said it"
19:23 est31 "nobody knows which config to reproduce, but well, lets stop release for it"
19:23 hmmmm like i said
19:23 hmmmm if it's a /common/ error, that has more weight
19:23 hmmmm a common bug, like the error in error handling one, might hbe hard to reproduce, but it's so common and fatal that it doesn't matter
19:24 est31 what is that bug precisely about
19:24 est31 because I see multiple different problems here
19:24 hmmmm it's PROBABLY a mod problem
19:24 est31 1. we do "error in error handling" at all
19:25 est31 and 2. servers occasionally get it
19:25 hmmmm but it's our problem because there's no way to tell where it came from or to fix it
19:25 est31 so is 2. our fault=
19:25 est31 ?
19:25 est31 is that the "blocker"?
19:25 est31 or is 1. it?
19:25 hmmmm that's one of the blockers
19:25 hmmmm it's not an error in error handling, it's a regular runtime error that happens inside of a lua callback that originated from inside of a lua api call
19:26 hmmmm anyway, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3023
19:26 hmmmm we should check this out too
19:26 est31 hmmmm, you still havent answered my question
19:26 est31 is it 1 or 2
19:26 est31 or both
19:27 hmmmm it's both
19:27 hmmmm we shouldn't ever get an "error in error handling" error
19:27 hmmmm and 2. it is our fault because there's no way to diagnose it
19:27 est31 they are different issues, and should be tracked by different github tickets
19:27 hmmmm what are LUA_ERRERR should be LUA_ERRRUN instead
19:28 est31 its the fault of the lua runtime, no?
19:28 hmmmm it might just be a luajit problem for all we know
19:28 est31 its like blaming your distro for a driver problem
19:28 VanessaE {"
19:28 hmmmm if it is a lua problem we should still find a way to work around it
19:29 hmmmm right now it's unacceptable for people to see "error in error handling" every 4 hours and have their servers shut down
19:29 est31 that doesnt apply to all downstream problems
19:29 est31 also its no reason to stop a release
19:29 est31 we arent perfect
19:29 hmmmm i don't advocate a release at all.
19:30 est31 you gonna add blocker to every issue?
19:30 hmmmm to the issues that are blockers
19:30 est31 perhaps you are right
19:31 est31 lets blow 0.4.13 off
19:31 hmmmm i'm just tired of minetest having a reputation for being a crashy piece of shit
19:31 hmmmm it's a slippery slope argument
19:31 hmmmm i am not saying we block on every issue, just the ones that are severe and common
19:31 hmmmm severe meaning things that crash or are security problems
19:32 hmmmm commmon meaning happens to like 3-4 people in a regular manner
19:32 hmmmm on a regular basis of playing
19:32 est31 you added that precision assert, didnt you?
19:32 hmmmm yes
19:32 hmmmm and it caught something :)
19:32 est31 so it must be reverted then
19:32 hmmmm no, fix the bug
19:33 est31 it crashed the game
19:33 est31 you convert small glitches into crashes, and then complain about minetest being crashy
19:33 hmmmm that's easy to fix
19:33 est31 this should give a log msg to errorstream
19:33 hmmmm crashing behavior is better than subtle problems
19:33 est31 certainly no
19:34 hmmmm why??
19:34 hmmmm you can fix a crash
19:34 est31 imagine if minetest had an error, do you want your os to freeze?
19:34 hmmmm that's obviously not what happens
19:34 est31 well, but should os developers have the same attitude
19:35 hmmmm OS authors can control what happens in their environment
19:35 hmmmm not the individual applications that run
19:35 est31 we neither
19:35 hmmmm all we need to do is get a backtrace, find the API it originates from, and then make the API fail
19:35 hmmmm what's going on here is like
19:36 hmmmm somebody misuses CreateFile() and it causes some subtle data corruption where it's not supposed to
19:36 hmmmm whereas the correct behavior would be to fail
19:37 hmmmm from what I understand you just want to get rid of the assertion because you want a release fast
19:37 hmmmm i don't understand the obsession behind wanting a fast release
19:37 est31 its not a fast release
19:37 est31 this is planned for months
19:37 hmmmm it's not ready
19:38 hmmmm how about #2145
19:38 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2145 -- Multi-second lag in default singleplayer game
19:39 est31 that seems easy to reproduce, no?
19:39 hmmmm I personally can't, but multiple people can reliably and it ruins their minetest experience
19:40 est31 if it actually ruins it, they have motivations to bisect it, perhaps?
19:41 est31 even if they did few steps, that would be already helping
19:41 hmmmm a lot of these people are not developers
19:41 est31 our asserts only fail in debug mode, no?
19:41 est31 you dont have to be a developer to do a bisect
19:42 est31 only git and build knowledge
19:42 est31 and time
19:42 est31 and you have to trust yourself
19:42 hmmmm if we can catch any of these people on IRC that would be possible
19:42 est31 bisects are partly hard because you have to answer the question every build
19:43 est31 hmmmm, <est31> our asserts only fail in debug mode, no?
19:43 hmmmm yes
19:43 hmmmm that doesn't mean ignore it
19:43 hmmmm this is so easy
19:43 hmmmm you get the backtrace
19:43 est31 but a blocker tag isnt justified
19:43 hmmmm you find the API screwing up
19:43 est31 its easy yes
19:43 hmmmm you add if (pos.X > thing || pos.X < -thing || ...) return 0;
19:43 hmmmm PROBLEM SOLVED
19:44 est31 but not a super serious which ruins fun for everybody
19:44 est31 it also depends on people who arent us
19:44 est31 and it cant be reproduced easily
19:44 hmmmm alright fine, remove the blocker tag...
19:47 hmmmm what's going to happen though, is when one of these bugs happen again without getting fixed, the object or whatever is going to magically warp to -2147483
19:48 est31 well it is odd, and a bug, but no reason to put the engine to a grinding halt
19:48 hmmmm just fix bugs
19:48 est31 but I agree, its good to have the assert
19:48 hmmmm this is an excellent opportunity to get minetest more stable
19:48 est31 it helps people who have debug builds
19:48 hmmmm the minute this gets released there is going to be nothing but features features features
19:48 rubenwardy we need more stability in Minetest
19:49 est31 so you dont want to blow the release off, but you want an extended freeze?
19:49 hmmmm of coure
19:49 hmmmm course
19:49 hmmmm I want the freeze to be extended to the point where vanessae, rubenwardy, and everybody else complaining can say "yes, I would call this software reliable"
19:49 VanessaE didn't I say a week wasn't enough like, a month ago?
19:50 hmmmm I want minetest server uptime to not be measured in hours
19:50 hmmmm this is so pathetic
19:50 hmmmm this is like RoR
19:51 rubenwardy I currently have to kill my server every 12 hours, as minetest.delete_blocks causes blocks to not emerge
19:51 hmmmm rubenwardy: could you help me with this
19:51 hmmmm i desperately want to get minetest.delete_area to work too
19:52 rubenwardy What sort of help are you looking for?
19:52 hmmmm testing things etc.
19:52 rubenwardy ofc then
19:53 hmmmm maybe it would be better to go into PM
19:53 hmmmm mind if I PM you?
19:53 rubenwardy that's fine
19:58 est31 hmmmm, so can you perhaps at least put a list together, of issues which need fixing?
19:58 est31 then we dont release until they are resolved
19:58 hmmmm well I think I listed my own concerns already
19:58 sfan5 est31: some germany translations were not that nicely translated "Fehler in Lua ist aufgetreten (z. B. wegen mod):" (grammatik, z.B. gehört zusammen, Mod ist ein Nomen); can we import the german translations again?
19:59 hmmmm VanessaE, rubenwardy, sfan5, everybody else, could you compile a list of issues you'd like to see fixed before a release?
19:59 VanessaE if it were up to me, that list would have every issue that is "medium priority" or higher, including "blocker"
19:59 est31 VanessaE, so you say you dont want any feature changes for the engine until the bugs are fixed
19:59 est31 also there are feature changes among them
19:59 VanessaE est31: correct.
20:00 est31 VanessaE, you know they are hundreds?
20:00 VanessaE hmmmm: my three main concerns are the "error in error handling", the OOM issue, and the more-map-loaded-makes-lower-FPS regression
20:00 VanessaE est31: I know.
20:00 VanessaE and how did they get into the hundreds?
20:00 VanessaE by not being fixed.
20:00 VanessaE frankly I think this is an "I knew this day would come" situation
20:00 hmmmm yeah those are pretty big concerns
20:00 sfan5 hmmmm: the two blockers, the possible memory leak is not of such high importance imo
20:00 est31 the implementors ran away and didnt care
20:00 hmmmm sfan5: two blockers?
20:01 est31 and now it should be my job to fix it?
20:01 sfan5 hmmmm: (#2145 and #3011)
20:01 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3011 -- ERROR[main]: Lua: error in error handling
20:01 hmmmm yeah I figured as much
20:01 VanessaE est31: not your job, but everyone who has the C++ skill and write access to the repo.
20:01 hmmmm #3011 is top priority for me right now
20:01 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3011 -- ERROR[main]: Lua: error in error handling
20:01 est31 3011 has to be split up
20:02 est31 I'll add a new one, and make it a blocker
20:03 est31 so VanessaE you say I should say "fuck off " to people who demand features in here?
20:03 VanessaE no... that's a little bit harsh of a response.
20:04 est31 thats basically what you suggest
20:04 VanessaE but given the project's current health, something a bit less harsh is in order for a while at least.
20:04 VanessaE a week's freeze clearly isn't enough
20:04 est31 btw can you help with other bugs
20:04 est31 do you have android devices?
20:05 VanessaE and given how long it takes to go from one release to another, it's about time to say "enough's enough" and make a release where all the really important bugs and most of the less important ones have been fixed
20:05 hmmmm hey guys
20:05 hmmmm what if we do a Linux release model
20:05 VanessaE I have a tablet that's not capable of running MT, and a phone that isn't mine.
20:05 hmmmm even release numbers are stability releases, odd are feature releases
20:05 VanessaE hmmmm: that's not a bad idea.
20:06 VanessaE but it still leaves unanswered the question of how much gets done for this release (which by that def, would be 'stability')
20:06 VanessaE or wait, no
20:06 VanessaE it'd be a feature releaase
20:06 hmmmm well at the very least the untraceable lua errors
20:06 VanessaE (was thinking 0.4.14)
20:08 est31 VanessaE, you'd like now to have 1.0.0 dont you :)
20:08 VanessaE est31: no.
20:08 VanessaE 1.0.0 would imply lots of *features* that are still on the drawing board.
20:08 VanessaE I'm not talking features, I'm talking about bugs.
20:09 VanessaE if it's in the issue list and it's not a feature request, it needs addressed
20:09 est31 some are a mixture
20:10 est31 "copy paste doesnt work"
20:10 est31 "mobs are shit"
20:10 hmmmm I wouldn't consider those bugs personally
20:10 VanessaE copy&paste is a bug but that's one of those low-prio ones.
20:10 VanessaE "mobs are shit" depends on adding a new feature
20:10 VanessaE (client-side modding)
20:11 est31 so you want to exclude everything that depends on features?
20:11 est31 also we should wonder about which gfx targets we want to have
20:12 est31 e.g. should we support the earliest buggiest implementation of opengl that exists on some old computer out there in the world
20:12 est31 note that im not rba and want to have super old version
20:12 VanessaE Everything that is at least "medium priority" and which doesn't require implementing some new feature in order to resolve to the satisfaction of the *reporter*
20:12 est31 err super new
20:13 est31 so you say we shouldnt release until 3018 is fixed?
20:13 hmmmm alright guys problem
20:14 est31 thats e.g. one of these shit bug reports
20:14 hmmmm HybridDog's method to reproduce a double fault doesn't cause the same error
20:14 est31 "if you click here click there move here move there, then this happens, and only hypothetically"
20:15 hmmmm the second thing causing the runtime error is the thing that causes a LUA_ERRERR, which gets rethrown as a LuaError, which gets caught by the first pcall
20:15 hmmmm which then runs the error handler, succesfully printing the backtrace
20:15 est31 I think the problem is minetest has far too much features in order to be called stable
20:15 est31 we should only consider bug reports from people who
20:15 est31 1. use gdb backtraces
20:16 est31 2. have NO MODS except minetest_game
20:16 VanessaE est31: impossible
20:16 est31 and 3. give us steps to reproduce and their config
20:16 VanessaE you need mods to reproduce some errors, particularly those which depend on an API call minetest_game doesn't uise
20:16 est31 otherwise its "impossible" to fix them
20:16 est31 and even then its hard
20:17 est31 if they say "it happens on my hardware", they should buy us an example, so that we can test, or help us fix it
20:17 est31 but if they say "please fix it, minetest is so super buggy shit, i hate you people", why should we do anything for them?
20:18 est31 I mean its just a git bisect
20:18 hmmmm because it's our software
20:18 VanessaE come on, enough with the slipper slope
20:18 VanessaE +y
20:18 hmmmm if there's any problems at all I'd be willing to bend over backwards to make it work
20:18 hmmmm a bug is like... embarassing
20:18 hmmmm even if it's not caused by me
20:18 hmmmm whenever I see a new error report I get a feeling of failure
20:20 est31 hmmmm, how would you fix the "sometimes its a bit laggy" bug?
20:20 hmmmm the 5 second lag thing?
20:20 est31 the one that has been mentioned here to be a blocker
20:20 est31 #2145
20:20 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2145 -- Multi-second lag in default singleplayer game
20:20 hmmmm look at callgrind outputs, but the links to the ones wayward mentioned are gone
20:21 hmmmm I didn't get the vibe that it's "sometimes a bit laggy" from that issue report
20:21 hmmmm sounds to me like it's a consistent problem that happens constantly and makes minetest unplayable
20:22 est31 first, lets make sure the person feels the same
20:22 est31 second, how would you fix it
20:22 VanessaE and if they say it's "laggy" find out if they mean server<->client latency or low FPS
20:22 hmmmm how it gets fixed depends on what the problem is
20:22 est31 ah i see he says "singleplayer is unplayable for me"
20:23 hmmmm we can't know one without the other
20:23 est31 what would be the next step in your opinion
20:23 est31 here
20:24 est31 I have fixed some of the bugs I deemed as critical
20:24 est31 in the past
20:25 hmmmm hmm
20:25 hmmmm well it depends on wayward or pilzadam showing up
20:25 hmmmm !seen pilzadam
20:25 ShadowBot hmmmm: I saw pilzadam in #minetest-dev 2 weeks, 5 days, 7 hours, 10 minutes, and 21 seconds ago saying "Zeno`, what else could be done instead of bisecting?"
20:25 hmmmm yikes..
20:25 hmmmm !seen wayward_one
20:25 ShadowBot hmmmm: I saw wayward_one in #minetest-dev 1 week, 2 days, 7 hours, 14 minutes, and 38 seconds ago saying "celeron55: it seems the FAQ on forum.minetest.net returns a 403 error"
20:25 est31 #2942
20:25 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2942 -- Fix srp default password by est31
20:25 VanessaE !seen wayward_tab
20:25 ShadowBot VanessaE: I saw wayward_tab in #minetest-dev 5 weeks, 5 days, 19 hours, 29 minutes, and 3 seconds ago saying "The minimap doesn't seem to work for android atm. I just git pulled and built, and added the respective lines to minetest.conf, to no avail."
20:25 est31 #2915
20:25 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2915 -- Shift-Click in Minetest Game replicates items
20:25 est31 this is my regression
20:25 VanessaE feh.
20:26 est31 #2904
20:26 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2904 -- No sound on Android dev build
20:26 est31 not mine
20:26 est31 #2847
20:26 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2847 -- Font characters broken
20:27 est31 so dont tell me i dont fix bugs
20:27 hmmmm you do
20:27 hmmmm i never said you didn't...
20:27 est31 ok then
20:29 est31 our current master isn't much buggier than 0.4.12 is, no?
20:29 sfan5 est31: should i already make a build of git HEAD?
20:29 est31 so what about the following: we do a release, but we stay in freeze, and fix the bugs, and make a bugfix 0.4.14?
20:29 sfan5 also what about the translation import?
20:30 est31 ok, will do
20:30 VanessaE est31: fix the very worst of the worst bugs, releast 0.4.13, stay in freeze, fix everything else, release 0.4.14, then release the freeze.
20:31 VanessaE release*
20:31 VanessaE s/release the/end the/
20:32 VanessaE and that means RBA's fancy features would have to wait until post-0.4.14
20:32 VanessaE oh hi RBA ;)
20:33 rubenwardy1 #3025
20:33 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3025 -- Fix segfaults caused by the Environment not being initialized yet by rubenwardy
20:33 sfan5 thanks est31
20:34 est31 3025 looks good
20:39 est31 ok, further reviews for 3025?
20:40 sfan5 looks good
20:40 nrzkt okay for me, but why m_env is not initalized and those calls are done ?
20:40 nrzkt how can m_env not being initialized when those calls are performed
20:41 est31 well its people not using the engine properly, and the engine doesnt give a clear message "you dont use me properly"
20:41 nrzkt m_env = new ServerEnvironment(servermap, m_script, this, m_path_world, m_area_mgr);
20:41 est31 so its bad
20:41 RealBadAngel est31, have you logged on skyblock today?
20:41 nrzkt sorry for the extra arg
20:41 est31 no
20:41 nrzkt it's in the Server constructor
20:41 RealBadAngel est31, give it a shot, theres something that should be visible from your base
20:41 nrzkt then, why m_env is called before in its initialization in Server constructor ?
20:41 nrzkt this is the good question and the good bugfix.
20:42 nrzkt to do*
20:43 est31 the environment isn't initialized at init tim
20:43 est31 time*
20:43 est31 look at server.cpp line 299
20:43 nrzkt it's in server constructor. What do you call init time ?
20:43 est31 the mods are loaded, then only we init the environment
20:44 nrzkt we should init m_env before mods no ?
20:44 est31 perhaps its more proper to not return, but give a nice proper "sorry i cannot do that dave" error
20:44 est31 why should we
20:44 est31 perhaps m_env depends on info from mods
20:44 nrzkt because mods depend on m_env
20:44 est31 i dont know the side effects of moving the change
20:45 est31 no, they dont have to
20:45 est31 of moving the m_env = call*
20:45 nrzkt m_env doesn't do anything in its constructor
20:46 est31 rubenwardy, seen the log? we are discussing your pr right now
20:46 sfan5 est31: I'll delay the builds for now (made a mistake w/ version number anyway), tell me if you have decided whether to merge rubenwardy's PR
20:47 sfan5 s/if/when/
20:47 nrzkt if we could move m_env call before in Server constructor it's better for runtime
20:47 est31 but i dont know the side effects
20:47 est31 it seems too easy
20:47 est31 and its too short before a release to risk such a change
20:47 nrzkt we only need to look at m_env tests everywhere.
20:48 est31 amongst the argument that the side effects are not known
20:48 nrzkt Release could be delayed. Stability is better than give shit in users repo for undefined time
20:48 nrzkt i will not release for android with such bugs.
20:48 est31 which bug?
20:48 rubenwardy if there is no environmrnt, there'll be no players so a return is okay (
20:48 nrzkt the sound bug ?
20:49 est31 it is fixed
20:49 est31 can you test latest master?
20:49 nrzkt the memleak bug ? which will cause many problems on android
20:49 est31 its older than 0.4.12
20:49 est31 so it already causes :)
20:49 rubenwardy if there is no env, there are no players, so returning is fine. Although they are still using it wrong.
20:49 est31 for the chat_send_players yes
20:49 nrzkt i don't have time tomorrow to test it, it's late and my build env has a little bit changed since 0.4.12 release i need to fix
20:49 est31 there its ok
20:50 nrzkt but please, don't give a release to have a release
20:50 est31 nrzkt, fine then, we have released android 0.4.12 independently from android too
20:51 rubenwardy I don't like the 0.4.13 then 0.4.14 idea.
20:51 nrzkt i also noticed my server was also stuck , maybe because of the emerge problem noticed, but it's very recent, since 1 month max...
20:51 rubenwardy seems a release for the sake of release
20:51 nrzkt +1
20:51 VanessaE rubenwardy: what would you do instead?
20:51 est31 well right now i am motivated to do things, perhaps once i am not motivated to do anything
20:51 nrzkt i am motivated to release a good minetest :)
20:52 est31 point me to an actual regression which was worse than 0.4.12
20:52 rubenwardy feature freeze can last another week. If the bugs remaining aren't so common,
20:53 rubenwardy omg, the backspace is too close to send :(
20:53 est31 in one week the really serious bugs wont be fixed either
20:53 rubenwardy so commonly found or vital, i guess they could be missed.
20:54 est31 i just want to release something so that players can enjoy the many fixes and additions that happened since 0.4.12
20:54 est31 and after the release, we can get better than any release before, regarding bugs
20:54 est31 because this seems to be the demand here
20:55 rubenwardy maybe switch to semver now, so we can issue patches
20:58 est31 ok let's not merge rubenwardy's pr right now, but do what nrzkt suggested, it doesn't seem that wrong
20:58 est31 s/right now//
20:59 est31 nrzkt, can you make a commit?
20:59 nrzkt yes i looked at the code and didn't see a reason to not move the m_env init before
20:59 nrzkt if you thing i don't see for this issue, please tell me :)
20:59 est31 I didnt see a reason either
21:01 rubenwardy hmmmm agrees with my methid
21:02 est31 silently ignoring the error?
21:02 est31 i've thought he likes to crash, and grind the server to a halt
21:02 nrzkt silently ignore error instead of fixing is not the better way if we can fix it easily
21:02 nrzkt est31: assert in debug mode permit to find unhandled cases which couldn't occurs
21:02 rubenwardy no, not initialising the environment first this close to release
21:03 rubenwardy #3025
21:03 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3025 -- Fix segfaults caused by the Environment not being initialized yet by rubenwardy
21:03 nrzkt s/couldn't/shouldn't/
21:03 nrzkt rubenwardy: if m_env is initialized before mods in Server::Server this solve the problem too
21:04 nrzkt it's because some mods are executing some API code at server loadMod
21:04 est31 Either we should do it as right now, by crashing, or we should perhaps give a nicer error msg
21:04 est31 and then either crash, or resume
21:04 est31 explaining that we are initializing
21:04 nrzkt ignore m_env remove the behavious which could permit to do something on environnement at serverload
21:04 est31 but silently ignoring things will get modders file this as bug again
21:04 nrzkt behaviour*. This could be interesting
21:05 est31 it wont remove any behaviour
21:05 est31 because right now we crash at serverload
21:05 nrzkt atm it seems we could do lua calls when we load a mod
21:05 nrzkt this could be interesting to load env before to let mods do something too
21:06 est31 they cant do that interesting things
21:06 nrzkt atm no, i know
21:07 nrzkt but if we load env before mods: 1. we fix the crash 2. we permit mods to do something at server load
21:07 est31 rubenwardy, does hmmmm still talk to you in pm? why doesnt he talk here?
21:07 est31 2. isnt needed, and 1. isnt a problem if the error message has a backtrace to the mod
21:07 est31 and 2. is dangerous
21:08 est31 because many things e.g. aliases are still existing in incomplete form
21:08 rubenwardy Server::setTimeOfDay is a bad idea to silently fail
21:08 rubenwardy all the others are okay as they're player related
21:08 rubenwardy the roll back one was a mistake, i didnt mean to add it
21:09 nrzkt est31: exact
21:09 rubenwardy I'd be surprised if rollback could be run at load time
21:09 est31 the particle spawner ones give return values too.
21:09 nrzkt est31: i don't understand why mods are loaded soon in Server. They should be loaded last no ?
21:09 est31 if you remove the ones you mentioned, we can merge it imo
21:10 est31 nrzkt, some mods may depend on others
21:10 est31 classical example is the craft guide
21:10 rubenwardy so silently ignoring is absolutely fine, except for Server::setTimeOfDay
21:10 rubenwardy it shouldn't crash
21:10 nrzkt est31: ok
21:10 est31 no it isnt
21:10 est31 for player related yes
21:11 est31 but for the spawner things no
21:11 est31 but there you don't ignore silently
21:11 est31 you give actual return values
21:12 rubenwardy spawners are player related
21:12 est31 you should document that if id is -1 the addition failed
21:13 est31 and the return value for the deletion should be documented too
21:13 rubenwardy that was already returned
21:13 rubenwardy see the code below my addition
21:13 nrzkt a thing for next release, if we could use std::map instead of std::vector for hud client side and server side it could be good to preserve some rare case of client desync on player HUD id
21:13 est31 still it should be documented
21:13 rubenwardy but yes, whilst I am there i should add comments
21:14 rubenwardy i also made a mistake, all the comments i add should be "may" not "will" (only the first is correct)
21:16 est31 will is ok for me
21:16 rubenwardy nrzkt, how could a desync happen?
21:16 nrzkt i don't know but i notice this bug when using client in debug mode, the assertion can sometimes happen
21:18 rubenwardy est31 it's may as the environment could be non-null whilst initialised
21:18 rubenwardy but then again those functions won't be called other than mods in the init stage, afaik.
21:19 rubenwardy does the hud-add packet give an id to the client, to make the client have the same id?
21:19 est31 well it will be null sometime during initialisation
21:20 est31 whether thats the same time the method is called during initialisation isnt required
21:20 rubenwardy true
21:28 Niebieski Hey, I'm trying to add Minetest into list of open-source games on Wikipedia.
21:28 Niebieski https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_open-source_video_games
21:28 sfan5 do we have an article?
21:28 est31 nope
21:28 sfan5 i thought we didn't have one
21:28 est31 and we dont get one
21:28 est31 unless we get more "notable"
21:28 Niebieski We don't have to have an article to add into this list.
21:29 Niebieski I guess...
21:29 sfan5 est31: don't tell me Terasology has an article
21:29 Niebieski Refresh now I saved it.
21:29 sfan5 please say no
21:29 rubenwardy we need notable sources
21:29 kilbith we had an article on the french page but deleted because "MT was not enough important amongst dozens of clones"
21:29 sfan5 Niebieski: are you sure we don't need an article? literally every other entry has one
21:30 VanessaE sfan5: there doesn't appear to be a terasology article.
21:30 rubenwardy we're marked now, Wikipedia deletionists are watching our page
21:30 sfan5 there is a german minetest article though https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minetest
21:30 est31 Niebieski, just try to add it, wiki people will remove it if they dont like it
21:30 Niebieski No I'm not sure, but I added it anyway.
21:30 est31 and you arent related with us
21:30 Niebieski Hahahaha. xD
21:30 est31 seems wiki people dont like people related to projects editing pages about them
21:31 est31 s/with/to/
21:31 est31 lol omg :D
21:31 Niebieski I'm telling you guys because I don't know what to add in the description ?
21:31 sfan5 est31: uploaded the mingw builds, based on current HEAD because there seems no conseus on whether to merge rubenwardy's PR
21:31 VanessaE Niebieski: "a C++ open source block sandbox game similar to Minecraft."
21:31 est31 sfan5, no problem
21:32 sfan5 Niebieski: "Open-Source, Voxel-based sandbox game similar to Minecraft"
21:32 est31 Right now I'm editing a slightly modified version of his pr
21:32 Niebieski Guys the list is about open-source games only.
21:32 sfan5 oh right
21:32 sfan5 drop the open-source then
21:33 Niebieski also no one has talked about technical specs of the game like coded in.. etc.
21:33 Niebieski I would say "voxel-base sandbox game similar to Minecraft".
21:34 Niebieski based*
21:34 sfan5 sounds good
21:36 est31 ok what bout https://github.com/est31/minetest/commit/91ecbd7bdb0b2bf4c8504cfd089d02d17e92cd66
21:36 est31 we dont need the new it seems
21:37 est31 pushing that in 5 minutes
21:38 sfan5 seems ok
21:38 est31 also tested it, the error works
21:38 est31 even shows where exactly the error occured
21:38 est31 which lua line
21:39 rubenwardy check that -1 is in fact returned to lua
21:39 est31 yes
21:39 rubenwardy as server.deletepartile != l_env::l_delete_particle
21:39 rubenwardy okay
21:41 nrzkt why throw on delete but not in add ?
21:42 rubenwardy because right below it fails silently on no player
21:43 est31 you mean the deletion?
21:43 est31 agreed, that should be fixed too
21:44 rubenwardy no, in add there's if (player)
21:44 est31 it does return -1; there
21:44 est31 thats not silent
21:44 est31 it gives the error to lua
21:45 est31 there /is/ a silent fail in deleteParticleSpawner
21:45 est31 but dunno if we should throw an error there
21:45 est31 if a player doesnt exist, it usually means they have logged off
21:47 rubenwardy if there is no environment, then there are no players.
21:47 est31 agreed
21:47 rubenwardy although the mod is still using the api wrong
21:47 est31 see what i have pushed http://git.io/v3tqV
21:49 est31 nrzkt, you still around?
21:51 nrzkt est31: not for a long time, i will go to bed. What do you want ?
21:51 est31 is the android version code 13 accurate?
21:51 hmmmm wow lots of talk
21:51 hmmmm I wanted to talk to rubenwardy in PM about delete_area specifically to reduce crosstalk and noise
21:52 nrzkt i look at the console to be sure
21:52 hmmmm I also approve of the way things dependent upon the environment being active are handled
21:52 est31 version code 13 for minetest 0.4.13
21:52 hmmmm if you guys don't like the silent error thing, then it's trivial, just change return type to a bool, fail by returning false, throw LuaError if the server method returns false
21:53 hmmmm "Environment not initialized yet"
21:53 nrzkt current play store version is 11
21:53 hmmmm moving the environment creation before the mod initialization might be a mistake
21:53 est31 ok then, its larger :)
21:53 hmmmm there are VERY subtle side effects with changing the ordering of initialization of things
21:53 est31 ^
21:53 nrzkt yes, for releasing i need at least 12 :)
21:53 est31 that was my main concern too.
21:53 hmmmm I screwed up one time by moving something around
21:54 hmmmm besides, setTimeOfDay or whatever would get overwritten when the env meta is loaded
21:54 hmmmm so it's kinda useless
21:54 est31 yea
21:55 nrzkt recent comment: Crashed on me First I spawned In a lagoon and died. Than It crashed on me
21:55 nrzkt The interface of this game needs some work... This Mobile Version loses too much FPS, also the HUD, Crafting Menu, Pause Menu, the Main Menu needs some work to be Mobile Friendly. :)
21:55 est31 agreed
21:56 nrzkt Unplayable for me Tapped the button to increase the UI size multiple times when I first played. The taps took like 10 seconds to register. Of course I tapped too many times. Now the UI is fucked up and unusable. I did try to clear data/cache/reinstall but nothing changed.
21:56 est31 clearing data doesnt work
21:56 est31 its the "proper paths" problem
21:56 est31 look into your sdcard folder
21:56 nrzkt i see, we are using a stupid data path
21:57 est31 there is a directory "Minetest"
21:57 est31 remove or rename it
21:57 nrzkt not very user friendly
22:01 rubenwardy the black screen on start up isn't very good also
22:01 est31 it is neccessary right now, but will be removed
22:01 est31 (mostly)
22:02 rubenwardy there are a lot of items on screen, hide them if they didn't have the privs, and maybe move some to pause
22:02 est31 ?
22:02 rubenwardy pressing the back button breaks flow, I'd like a close button on screen. it's close not back
22:03 rubenwardy the fly/noclip/view all/fast/debug icons
22:03 est31 its the android way
22:03 est31 about the back button
22:03 rubenwardy it doesn't feel right
22:03 est31 for me it does
22:04 est31 and besides we dont have it on normal minetest either
22:04 est31 e.g. on desktop
22:04 VanessaE back (out of formspec) --> back (out of the active play) --> back (out of the back, to the home screen)
22:04 VanessaE seems logical to me
22:05 VanessaE out of the app*
22:05 rubenwardy also, creative inventory - back doesn't go back a page
22:05 VanessaE why would it?
22:05 rubenwardy because it's back
22:06 VanessaE that ain't how it works in android :)
22:06 rubenwardy it took me a few minutes to work out back = pause menu
22:06 VanessaE it's not "page back", it's "previous item in history".
22:07 rubenwardy my back button vibrates and takes half a second to work
22:07 rubenwardy which is probably the main cause of breaking
22:08 rubenwardy (breaking flow)
22:08 VanessaE turn off haptic feedback then :)
22:08 est31 btw whats the default mapgen?
22:08 rubenwardy also, I would like to see ab official Minetrst play account, nrz is unprofessional
22:08 est31 v7 or v6?
22:08 VanessaE (I honestly never understood the need for it in many situations where it's used. that usual "pwop!" sound seems to be enough for me)
22:08 VanessaE est31: v6
22:09 est31 good
22:09 rubenwardy turn it off for all apps?
22:09 est31 ok then, seems I can make the release commit
22:09 VanessaE rubenwardy: I guess so. this is OS-level stuff isn't it?
22:09 rubenwardy it still doesnt solve the half second lag.
22:10 rubenwardy could you click outisde of a formspec to close?
22:10 rubenwardy that would solve the problen
22:10 nrzkt rubenwardy: i don't see why i'm unprofesionnal, it's a gratis sentence, but i'm out, and if you have 100$ to give to google, go.
22:11 est31 nice, mushrooms
22:11 rubenwardy isn't it £10?
22:11 * VanessaE throws a badger at est31
22:11 rubenwardy lol
22:11 est31 rofl
22:11 rubenwardy it doesnt matter that much though
22:12 est31 what are the spores for?
22:12 rubenwardy for children etc (looking at the reviews) it isn't that obvious to press the back buttons
22:13 VanessaE so you can farm more mushrooms
22:13 est31 hrmm, there seems to be a bug
22:13 rubenwardy but if i can press the bg, I'm fine :P
22:13 VanessaE rubenwardy: it also isn't obvious to them that this isn't minecraft, either
22:13 est31 when I mine a mushroom, i get a mushroom plus some spores
22:13 VanessaE I've lost count of the number of times someone's written game[ ]mode[ ]1
22:13 est31 now when I place that mushroom I got, I get again a mushroom plus some spores
22:13 est31 we need a mushroom_without_spores node
22:14 VanessaE est31: sounds like drops aren't configured right
22:14 VanessaE there's supposed to be a way to only drop one OR the other
22:14 est31 ok
22:14 est31 can you fix this?
22:15 VanessaE er...where's the code?
22:15 est31 flowers mod
22:16 VanessaE wat
22:16 VanessaE that's a weird place to put it
22:16 est31 https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blob/master/mods/flowers/init.lua
22:16 VanessaE found it.
22:16 rubenwardy not the floral debate again :(
22:17 rubenwardy anyway, gtg
22:17 est31 bye
22:17 VanessaE wait
22:17 VanessaE est31: add "max_items = 1" to the drop def for that node
22:17 VanessaE right before line 148
22:18 VanessaE that should ensure that the user never gets both.
22:18 VanessaE oh it was ruben leaving. fine. gtfo ;)
22:19 est31 hrmmm, can you also drop stacks?
22:19 est31 because it would be good to drop multiple mushrooms
22:19 est31 err seeds
22:19 VanessaE I've never tried
22:19 VanessaE but I think so
22:19 VanessaE it's probably just a matter of appending a space and the stack count
22:19 VanessaE (as in any other itemstack usage)
22:19 est31 yea
22:20 VanessaE now as for where that code belongs, frankly I'd have preferred it to be in farming mod.
22:21 hmmmm hum :/
22:21 hmmmm I can't replicate an error in error handling with a triple-nested setup
22:21 VanessaE mushrooms are not plants, let alone flowers, and can be farmed, more or less
22:25 est31 agreed
22:26 est31 but i dont know minetest_game policy well enough to do such a change before a release
22:26 VanessaE well it's not a bug, and changing it now would break nodes
22:27 VanessaE (because they're all prefixed "flowers:" and soon I'll have to adapt plantlife's mod to use them)
22:27 VanessaE so I guess it stays.
22:28 * VanessaE looks at the number of merge conflicts between dreambuilder and upstream minetest_game and cries a little
22:40 hmmmm I think we should take a very close, hard look at travelnet
22:40 hmmmm this may be the cause of error in error handling
22:40 VanessaE well, I DO use it on my servers
22:40 * VanessaE pokes Sokomine
22:40 hmmmm I cross correlated with thatgraemeguy, cornernote, tchncs, and now you
22:41 * hmmmm goes to install travelnet
22:41 est31 VanessaE, what bout http://pastebin.com/HayDBFmh
22:41 hmmmm that is literally the only shared mod between all people who have the problem :)
22:41 VanessaE est31: that seems right to me.
22:42 VanessaE hmmmm: that said, it's a fairly popular mod. might be a good candidate for inclusion into minetest_game (after the current problem is sorted and any bugs therein are fixed)
22:43 est31 it does change gameplay
22:43 est31 before, you had to walk, now you can take the travelnet
22:43 VanessaE yes, but not in an essential way, after all a singleplayer user can just /teleport if they want
22:45 VanessaE and most servers have some kind of limited-teleport mod installed also.
22:46 VanessaE hmmmm: got any particular failure in mind in that mod, btw?
22:48 hmmmm not yet
22:48 hmmmm but whatever it is
22:48 hmmmm it is NOT the same thing as hybriddog posted
22:49 VanessaE hybrid dog uses a "hacked" client.
22:49 hmmmm ? what do you mean
22:50 VanessaE various client modifications, for example he can place a nodee by writing something like "please place 1 2 3" or so.
22:50 VanessaE I don't know what all.
22:50 hmmmm oh yeah but that has nothing to do with this
22:50 VanessaE [off] and he's a known griefer, so take his comments with a grain of salt.
22:50 hmmmm i think he's been pretty helpful tbh
22:50 hmmmm i like him
22:50 VanessaE well just saying to keep it in mind.
22:51 VanessaE [off] I used to think he was okay until he griefed my servers. twice. exploiting the nature of lava/water flow->cooling to cause major server lag
22:51 VanessaE [off] he is the reason I added the alternate lavacooling method used in gloopblocks.
23:06 est31 hrmm, mushrooms are very easy to farm as it seems
23:06 est31 easier than farming crops
23:07 est31 well, thats not that important
23:07 VanessaE btw let's resolve game#611 before release
23:07 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/611 -- Junglewood texture too light, boring
23:08 est31 is that a 0.4.12 "regression"?
23:08 VanessaE not exactly as such
23:08 VanessaE it's a style regression that frankly looks terrible, and apparently a lot of people agree
23:09 est31 I agree too
23:09 VanessaE I figured we could hash out the two textures being discussed (the jungle tree top and jungle wood planks) and get that in for the release.
23:10 VanessaE this wood, https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/611#issuecomment-128830359
23:10 VanessaE and whatever we decide on for the top (I think my last post is pretty good)
23:11 est31 like your last one
23:11 est31 do you want to make a pr?
23:11 VanessaE I can do that but I don't wanna take credit for kilbith's wood image
23:11 est31 you can make two commits, and I'll change the author for the wood
23:11 VanessaE ok.
23:11 VanessaE moment.
23:12 est31 I like your last trunk image btw
23:12 est31 stilll a slight bit too coffe-ish, but overall good
23:16 VanessaE https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/618
23:19 VanessaE wait, lemme fix lazyj's credit.
23:19 est31 well, part of it is your texture too
23:20 VanessaE nah
23:20 VanessaE all I did was combine his + default
23:20 VanessaE fixed.
23:23 VanessaE huh, see kilbith's comment on that PR? O_o
23:25 est31 o_O
23:26 VanessaE maybe I coulda turned the color sat down a bit but I thought it looked good
23:27 kilbith ok, wtf is that commit ? https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/commit/6a64ec4dac8c92b8435107fb6ab1bc6bb7ce1820
23:27 kilbith is that a mistake or are you just breaking the damn rules ?
23:28 est31 removed it, was against the rules
23:28 kilbith same for that : https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/commit/39de13fe9e816446c2a54ead7166863d2d7656e8
23:28 kilbith and the previous one
23:29 est31 The mushrooms had to be fixed, otherwise people get too much on servers, etc.
23:29 est31 about trunks, we already had a regressed release
23:30 kilbith do you realize that you have 50% of chance to not get a mushroom in your inv ?
23:30 kilbith are you experienced in modding ?
23:31 est31 i have read the algorithm, and this seemed satisfying to me
23:31 kilbith you just added a new feature
23:31 est31 you have 50% chance to not get a mushroom
23:31 kilbith without getting 2 approvals
23:32 kilbith this is so stupid, you dig a mushroom, you get it
23:32 est31 its a bug, i wanted to fix it
23:32 kilbith the bug was for the spores
23:33 est31 perhaps the proper fix would have been to register mushroom_without_spores
23:33 est31 then have an abm to add the spores
23:33 est31 but it gives terrible gameplay
23:33 kilbith no discussion, nothing..
23:34 VanessaE kilbith: btw, real strangler fig wood: http://urbanforestrecycling.com/_Media/sany0003-4-1_med.jpeg (so mine/lazyj's image is actually pretty close to the darker parts of those boards)
23:34 est31 you can still make it easier, but making it harder is hard on public servers if people have chests full of it
23:34 est31 imagine if nyan cats were as common if stones
23:35 est31 as*
23:35 est31 and then you make them super rare
23:35 est31 nobody will be believed they added it
23:36 est31 we have RC commits set for what the release should be
23:36 est31 s/added it/dug it after the super rare event/
23:36 est31 so, fine, the commits are tagged
23:37 est31 tomorrow sb can write the changelog, and the release can be made "official"
23:50 Hijiri est31: just make it require chests full of it
23:50 Hijiri maybe 5
23:50 est31 lol