Time Nick Message 00:30 * VanessaE smacks hmmmm around a bit with a large OOM error :) 03:40 VanessaE hmmmm: Any chance we can get 0.4.13 to be released in the form of a self-extracting archive of some kind? 03:40 VanessaE zip or 7z or whatever is convenient 04:02 hmmmm what do you mean? aren't releases already made as .zip 04:49 paramat now pushing geme#614 04:49 paramat game#614 04:50 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/614 -- Default/trees: Combine sapling ABMs into one ABM by paramat 04:54 paramat complete 06:12 paramat this one needs discussion game#616 06:12 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/616 -- Default: Rename tree nodes and textures to underscore versions by paramat 08:00 paramat this is better game#617 08:00 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/617 -- Default: Rename pine tree nodes, textures and mapgen aliases by paramat 08:22 paramat ^ sfan5 11:03 est31 nore, can you review some french translation changes? 11:04 est31 first this https://github.com/est31/minetest/commit/5ffb752d3ae4ba14729d7301be544a6e8fbf51ce 11:04 est31 and https://github.com/est31/minetest/commit/5622fb2cee6d86f0220ea5773ec78f5f2f6714c3 11:05 est31 also somebody needed for russian https://github.com/est31/minetest/commit/247dda5005ae35f6047008938aadd5efcd78a494 11:05 est31 say if they are ok, then I'll push them all 11:08 est31 Me wonders whether "По этому пути мира нет:" is a good translation for "Provided world path doesn't exist: " 11:09 est31 google translator gives "In this way there is no peace:" 11:18 est31 russian looks good too 11:21 est31 except that single string 11:22 est31 any russian speakers here? 11:23 est31 ah 11:23 est31 google translator gives me for "мира нет" "there is no peace" 11:23 est31 but for "мира" it gives me world 11:24 est31 now нет is "no", know that much russian 11:24 est31 guess its ok then 11:24 est31 pushing the translations 11:51 VanessaE hmmmm: of course they're zip, but they're not self-extracting i.e. you can't just "run" the file to have it extract. Seems like a lot of people who are otherwise intelligent players can't figure out the concept of unzip -> cd to minetest/bin -> execute minetest.exe, so I figured, why not a self-extracting archive that handles all of these steps? (plus a dialog box on first-run that tells the user where to find the 11:51 VanessaE game next time around) 12:10 Calinou we should have a proper NSIS installer... 12:10 Calinou that's all 12:10 Calinou and portable .zip builds for those who want it 12:20 kaeza I wrote this long ago, FWIW: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4245 12:21 VanessaE the important part of that thread: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=67020#p67020 12:22 nore est31: the translations look good 12:35 kaeza related: https://github.com/kaeza/minetest/commit/3285bc69afe7ae750af9040616b51757f94dd312 12:52 paramat nore sfan5 any comments/approval for game#617 ? 12:52 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/617 -- Default: Rename pine tree nodes, textures and mapgen aliases by paramat 12:54 nore paramat: looks good 12:54 nore but I think jungletrees could be changed too 12:55 nore aliases aren't that expensive 12:57 paramat yeah perhaps, sfan5 may prefer that too 12:58 paramat if so there are some issues to consider in 616 13:00 VanessaE paramat: I don't recall seeing an answer: 13:00 VanessaE if A is aliased to B, and C comes along that's aliased to A, will C = B or will the engine throw an error? 13:01 paramat i dunno 13:12 paramat that may be another reason to try avoiding aliases. also the jungle node names may be the wrong form but they are consistent as a group and players are used to them 13:12 paramat how about i push this as is, then we can consider the jungle names later? 13:21 nore VanessaE: I think it will work 13:21 nore I am not completely sure though 13:24 kahrl as I recall, it will work as long as the alias from A to B is defined earlier than the alias from C to A 13:24 kahrl (so that the definition of A can be looked up at the time C is defined) 13:25 twoelk no alias database? ;-P 18:30 est31 VanessaE, no, its not transitive: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/990a96578f20244626b6b9f67f8e79a7e2e614ea/src/itemdef.cpp#L222 18:30 est31 and here too https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/990a96578f20244626b6b9f67f8e79a7e2e614ea/src/itemdef.cpp#L281 18:31 VanessaE ok 18:31 est31 kaeza, it would be great to have an installer 18:31 VanessaE in which case game#617 is gonna break things. 18:31 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/617 -- Default: Rename pine tree nodes, textures and mapgen aliases by paramat 18:31 est31 but I have no windows to do it, so you'll have to convince a minetest dev with windows 18:32 VanessaE kaeza is not here. 18:32 est31 i know 18:32 est31 tab complete didnt work :(( 18:35 est31 BlockMen uploads the windows version at around 00:00 CEST, so in around 3 hours 25 minutes 18:42 est31 ok hmmmm kahrl nore nrzkt sfan5 Tesseract, last call, to propose any changes to the core engine 18:43 est31 and I dunno about minetest_game, will have to ask paramat which things he wants in until 0.4.13 18:43 sfan5 est31: you'll also need to tell me to make a build 18:44 est31 which build do you want to do? 18:44 sfan5 mingw 18:44 sfan5 and it's not "want" 18:45 VanessaE make them self-extracting zip/7z please 18:45 est31 which builds does blockmen make? 18:45 sfan5 i don't think anyone else has a build env working 18:45 sfan5 msvc 18:45 est31 ok 18:45 VanessaE let's finally make it easy for users to install. 18:45 sfan5 VanessaE: if you tell me how to do that with p7zip i can do that 18:45 est31 ok 18:45 VanessaE sfan5: http://www.wikihow.com/Use-7Zip-to-Create-Self-Extracting-excutables 18:45 sfan5 i know how to use the gui 18:46 VanessaE looks pretty simple, but no idea how you'd script it 18:46 sfan5 there is no 7zip gui on linux 18:46 VanessaE zeno had something the that though 18:46 VanessaE damned if I can remember 18:46 est31 also, we need sb to create a changelog 18:46 kahrl what about the blockers? 18:46 Warr1024 making 7z sfx isn't hard... 18:46 kahrl #3011 #2653 #2145 18:46 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3011 -- ERROR[main]: Lua: error in error handling 18:46 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2653 -- (Another) Possible memory leak 18:46 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2145 -- Multi-second lag in default singleplayer game 18:47 VanessaE release can't be made until those ^^^^^ are fixed 18:47 Warr1024 it's just the 7z sfx module with the archive concatenated after it. 18:47 VanessaE and any blockers that were for some previous version that has been pushed back 18:47 est31 the issue has been created january 18:47 est31 in 18:47 est31 the last one 18:47 VanessaE sfan: https://netbeansscribbles.wordpress.com/2015/01/30/creating-a-self-extracting-7zip-archive-multi-platform/ 18:48 est31 thats before 0.4.12 18:48 Warr1024 the *.sfx file is just an exe blob. cat 7z.sfx archive.7z >install.exe 18:48 Warr1024 there can be an optional config file (plain-text) that can be catted between. 18:48 kahrl the blocker label was added only 19 days ago though 18:48 sfan5 VanessaE: thanks ill look at that 18:50 hmmmm est31: Hold on a minute 18:50 hmmmm why are you releasing in a known bad state 18:50 est31 what are your issues? 18:50 hmmmm how about all the graphical regressions on android 18:51 hmmmm and then what about the ATI/intel issues 18:51 hmmmm and then there are these unknown problems with delete_area 18:51 est31 they existed before too 18:51 hmmmm and what about the race conditions? 18:51 est31 graphical regressions on android? 18:53 est31 is it ATI/intel, and not just old GL API version? 18:53 est31 also do you mean #2866 with it 18:53 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2866 -- Graphical regression. 18:58 est31 hmmmm, is it that issue, or some other github issue? 19:01 est31 The "possible memory leak" one requires imo a deep rewrite of when we delete mapblocks from the scene 19:01 est31 about 3011, it seems to be of recent origin? 19:01 VanessaE est31: also #2350 19:01 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2350 -- Wielded is glichted on certain OpenGL versions 19:01 VanessaE this seems to be affecting more people than was originally though 19:01 VanessaE thought* 19:01 est31 I mean, is it our fault, or is it just modders assigning their errors to the engine 19:02 VanessaE plus there are fps regressions 19:03 VanessaE the more map that's loaded, the lower your FPS, to the point of the autotuner really having to scale back your view range for the same scene as would have produced higher fps right after login 19:03 VanessaE and then there's the autotuner itself not scaling back the range properly from time to time as well 19:04 est31 and about 2350, which options need to be enabled? 19:04 VanessaE (wanted fps: 30. actual? say 20 with a view range of 100+) 19:04 est31 can you add that perhaps as github comment 19:04 est31 "I can reproduce this with no option enabled" 19:04 est31 or "only if fsaa is set" 19:04 est31 and so on 19:04 VanessaE no idea 19:04 VanessaE WSDguy is the latest victim of it 19:10 hmmmm what's 3011? 19:10 hmmmm #3011 19:10 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3011 -- ERROR[main]: Lua: error in error handling 19:10 hmmmm oh 19:10 hmmmm yeah if we release a minetest where people get error in error handling problems every 3-4 hours that's not too good 19:11 hmmmm i don't think there needs to be a release right now, personally 19:12 hmmmm also what ever happened to the Android stuttering issue 19:12 nrzkt hmmmm: agree 19:12 VanessaE I agree, hmmmm 19:12 VanessaE (sorry est :) ) 19:12 est31 stuttering? 19:13 hmmmm wasn't there a stuttering using the softfp abi? 19:13 hmmmm stuttering issue 19:13 est31 ah that one 19:13 est31 the "looking around is jittery" one? 19:13 hmmmm yeah 19:13 est31 that one wayward says is old, but he only opened the report recently 19:14 est31 #2998 19:14 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2998 -- [Android] Looking around is jittery 19:14 hmmmm plus TBC_x is in the process of fixing some race conditions iirc 19:14 hmmmm what's going on with #2999? 19:14 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2999 -- Fixes a freeze on the phone or NativeActivity LockScreen by MoNTE48 19:14 est31 thats only an issue if we target a newer api version 19:14 VanessaE note also the crash-on-exit-to-menu that I get sometimes 19:15 hmmmm crash on exit to menu usually means the server isn't getting cleaned up correctly 19:15 hmmmm like a double free or use after free 19:15 est31 or the client 19:15 est31 can happen with it too 19:15 hmmmm it's almost always the server :). 19:15 est31 I had it multiple times on the client 19:15 est31 while connecting to a server :) 19:16 hmmmm :( 19:16 VanessaE I'm talking strictly about client exit-to-menu while on a server. 19:16 est31 but dont have much singleplayer experience 19:16 est31 perhaps its more often there 19:16 hmmmm well if we can reproduce that 19:16 VanessaE (though I'm sure it happens on sp also) 19:19 est31 its hard to fix these bugs 19:19 est31 the memory leak is one of the easiest to reproduce 19:20 est31 but the other ones, are all hard to repro 19:20 est31 and about android, I have no idea how the bug is created 19:20 hmmmm i don't want to release software with such blatant problems 19:20 hmmmm why the rush for a release?? 19:21 est31 I dont even have an idea about #2973 19:21 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2973 -- [Android] No text on main menu 19:21 est31 hmmmm, do you think we should wait? 19:21 hmmmm absolutely... 19:21 est31 how long? 19:21 est31 6 months? 19:21 est31 8? 19:21 hmmmm not how long 19:21 hmmmm until things get solid 19:22 est31 we should make a clear list of issues 19:22 hmmmm i'm not counting months here, i'm counting severity and how common the known bugs are 19:22 est31 in github 19:22 est31 so that we can track them 19:22 hmmmm they have the blocker tag on them don't theY? 19:22 est31 not just "i remember someone said it" 19:23 est31 "nobody knows which config to reproduce, but well, lets stop release for it" 19:23 hmmmm like i said 19:23 hmmmm if it's a /common/ error, that has more weight 19:23 hmmmm a common bug, like the error in error handling one, might hbe hard to reproduce, but it's so common and fatal that it doesn't matter 19:24 est31 what is that bug precisely about 19:24 est31 because I see multiple different problems here 19:24 hmmmm it's PROBABLY a mod problem 19:24 est31 1. we do "error in error handling" at all 19:25 est31 and 2. servers occasionally get it 19:25 hmmmm but it's our problem because there's no way to tell where it came from or to fix it 19:25 est31 so is 2. our fault= 19:25 est31 ? 19:25 est31 is that the "blocker"? 19:25 est31 or is 1. it? 19:25 hmmmm that's one of the blockers 19:25 hmmmm it's not an error in error handling, it's a regular runtime error that happens inside of a lua callback that originated from inside of a lua api call 19:26 hmmmm anyway, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3023 19:26 hmmmm we should check this out too 19:26 est31 hmmmm, you still havent answered my question 19:26 est31 is it 1 or 2 19:26 est31 or both 19:27 hmmmm it's both 19:27 hmmmm we shouldn't ever get an "error in error handling" error 19:27 hmmmm and 2. it is our fault because there's no way to diagnose it 19:27 est31 they are different issues, and should be tracked by different github tickets 19:27 hmmmm what are LUA_ERRERR should be LUA_ERRRUN instead 19:28 est31 its the fault of the lua runtime, no? 19:28 hmmmm it might just be a luajit problem for all we know 19:28 est31 its like blaming your distro for a driver problem 19:28 VanessaE {" 19:28 hmmmm if it is a lua problem we should still find a way to work around it 19:29 hmmmm right now it's unacceptable for people to see "error in error handling" every 4 hours and have their servers shut down 19:29 est31 that doesnt apply to all downstream problems 19:29 est31 also its no reason to stop a release 19:29 est31 we arent perfect 19:29 hmmmm i don't advocate a release at all. 19:30 est31 you gonna add blocker to every issue? 19:30 hmmmm to the issues that are blockers 19:30 est31 perhaps you are right 19:31 est31 lets blow 0.4.13 off 19:31 hmmmm i'm just tired of minetest having a reputation for being a crashy piece of shit 19:31 hmmmm it's a slippery slope argument 19:31 hmmmm i am not saying we block on every issue, just the ones that are severe and common 19:31 hmmmm severe meaning things that crash or are security problems 19:32 hmmmm commmon meaning happens to like 3-4 people in a regular manner 19:32 hmmmm on a regular basis of playing 19:32 est31 you added that precision assert, didnt you? 19:32 hmmmm yes 19:32 hmmmm and it caught something :) 19:32 est31 so it must be reverted then 19:32 hmmmm no, fix the bug 19:33 est31 it crashed the game 19:33 est31 you convert small glitches into crashes, and then complain about minetest being crashy 19:33 hmmmm that's easy to fix 19:33 est31 this should give a log msg to errorstream 19:33 hmmmm crashing behavior is better than subtle problems 19:33 est31 certainly no 19:34 hmmmm why?? 19:34 hmmmm you can fix a crash 19:34 est31 imagine if minetest had an error, do you want your os to freeze? 19:34 hmmmm that's obviously not what happens 19:34 est31 well, but should os developers have the same attitude 19:35 hmmmm OS authors can control what happens in their environment 19:35 hmmmm not the individual applications that run 19:35 est31 we neither 19:35 hmmmm all we need to do is get a backtrace, find the API it originates from, and then make the API fail 19:35 hmmmm what's going on here is like 19:36 hmmmm somebody misuses CreateFile() and it causes some subtle data corruption where it's not supposed to 19:36 hmmmm whereas the correct behavior would be to fail 19:37 hmmmm from what I understand you just want to get rid of the assertion because you want a release fast 19:37 hmmmm i don't understand the obsession behind wanting a fast release 19:37 est31 its not a fast release 19:37 est31 this is planned for months 19:37 hmmmm it's not ready 19:38 hmmmm how about #2145 19:38 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2145 -- Multi-second lag in default singleplayer game 19:39 est31 that seems easy to reproduce, no? 19:39 hmmmm I personally can't, but multiple people can reliably and it ruins their minetest experience 19:40 est31 if it actually ruins it, they have motivations to bisect it, perhaps? 19:41 est31 even if they did few steps, that would be already helping 19:41 hmmmm a lot of these people are not developers 19:41 est31 our asserts only fail in debug mode, no? 19:41 est31 you dont have to be a developer to do a bisect 19:42 est31 only git and build knowledge 19:42 est31 and time 19:42 est31 and you have to trust yourself 19:42 hmmmm if we can catch any of these people on IRC that would be possible 19:42 est31 bisects are partly hard because you have to answer the question every build 19:43 est31 hmmmm, our asserts only fail in debug mode, no? 19:43 hmmmm yes 19:43 hmmmm that doesn't mean ignore it 19:43 hmmmm this is so easy 19:43 hmmmm you get the backtrace 19:43 est31 but a blocker tag isnt justified 19:43 hmmmm you find the API screwing up 19:43 est31 its easy yes 19:43 hmmmm you add if (pos.X > thing || pos.X < -thing || ...) return 0; 19:43 hmmmm PROBLEM SOLVED 19:44 est31 but not a super serious which ruins fun for everybody 19:44 est31 it also depends on people who arent us 19:44 est31 and it cant be reproduced easily 19:44 hmmmm alright fine, remove the blocker tag... 19:47 hmmmm what's going to happen though, is when one of these bugs happen again without getting fixed, the object or whatever is going to magically warp to -2147483 19:48 est31 well it is odd, and a bug, but no reason to put the engine to a grinding halt 19:48 hmmmm just fix bugs 19:48 est31 but I agree, its good to have the assert 19:48 hmmmm this is an excellent opportunity to get minetest more stable 19:48 est31 it helps people who have debug builds 19:48 hmmmm the minute this gets released there is going to be nothing but features features features 19:48 rubenwardy we need more stability in Minetest 19:49 est31 so you dont want to blow the release off, but you want an extended freeze? 19:49 hmmmm of coure 19:49 hmmmm course 19:49 hmmmm I want the freeze to be extended to the point where vanessae, rubenwardy, and everybody else complaining can say "yes, I would call this software reliable" 19:49 VanessaE didn't I say a week wasn't enough like, a month ago? 19:50 hmmmm I want minetest server uptime to not be measured in hours 19:50 hmmmm this is so pathetic 19:50 hmmmm this is like RoR 19:51 rubenwardy I currently have to kill my server every 12 hours, as minetest.delete_blocks causes blocks to not emerge 19:51 hmmmm rubenwardy: could you help me with this 19:51 hmmmm i desperately want to get minetest.delete_area to work too 19:52 rubenwardy What sort of help are you looking for? 19:52 hmmmm testing things etc. 19:52 rubenwardy ofc then 19:53 hmmmm maybe it would be better to go into PM 19:53 hmmmm mind if I PM you? 19:53 rubenwardy that's fine 19:58 est31 hmmmm, so can you perhaps at least put a list together, of issues which need fixing? 19:58 est31 then we dont release until they are resolved 19:58 hmmmm well I think I listed my own concerns already 19:58 sfan5 est31: some germany translations were not that nicely translated "Fehler in Lua ist aufgetreten (z. B. wegen mod):" (grammatik, z.B. gehört zusammen, Mod ist ein Nomen); can we import the german translations again? 19:59 hmmmm VanessaE, rubenwardy, sfan5, everybody else, could you compile a list of issues you'd like to see fixed before a release? 19:59 VanessaE if it were up to me, that list would have every issue that is "medium priority" or higher, including "blocker" 19:59 est31 VanessaE, so you say you dont want any feature changes for the engine until the bugs are fixed 19:59 est31 also there are feature changes among them 19:59 VanessaE est31: correct. 20:00 est31 VanessaE, you know they are hundreds? 20:00 VanessaE hmmmm: my three main concerns are the "error in error handling", the OOM issue, and the more-map-loaded-makes-lower-FPS regression 20:00 VanessaE est31: I know. 20:00 VanessaE and how did they get into the hundreds? 20:00 VanessaE by not being fixed. 20:00 VanessaE frankly I think this is an "I knew this day would come" situation 20:00 hmmmm yeah those are pretty big concerns 20:00 sfan5 hmmmm: the two blockers, the possible memory leak is not of such high importance imo 20:00 est31 the implementors ran away and didnt care 20:00 hmmmm sfan5: two blockers? 20:01 est31 and now it should be my job to fix it? 20:01 sfan5 hmmmm: (#2145 and #3011) 20:01 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3011 -- ERROR[main]: Lua: error in error handling 20:01 hmmmm yeah I figured as much 20:01 VanessaE est31: not your job, but everyone who has the C++ skill and write access to the repo. 20:01 hmmmm #3011 is top priority for me right now 20:01 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3011 -- ERROR[main]: Lua: error in error handling 20:01 est31 3011 has to be split up 20:02 est31 I'll add a new one, and make it a blocker 20:03 est31 so VanessaE you say I should say "fuck off " to people who demand features in here? 20:03 VanessaE no... that's a little bit harsh of a response. 20:04 est31 thats basically what you suggest 20:04 VanessaE but given the project's current health, something a bit less harsh is in order for a while at least. 20:04 VanessaE a week's freeze clearly isn't enough 20:04 est31 btw can you help with other bugs 20:04 est31 do you have android devices? 20:05 VanessaE and given how long it takes to go from one release to another, it's about time to say "enough's enough" and make a release where all the really important bugs and most of the less important ones have been fixed 20:05 hmmmm hey guys 20:05 hmmmm what if we do a Linux release model 20:05 VanessaE I have a tablet that's not capable of running MT, and a phone that isn't mine. 20:05 hmmmm even release numbers are stability releases, odd are feature releases 20:05 VanessaE hmmmm: that's not a bad idea. 20:06 VanessaE but it still leaves unanswered the question of how much gets done for this release (which by that def, would be 'stability') 20:06 VanessaE or wait, no 20:06 VanessaE it'd be a feature releaase 20:06 hmmmm well at the very least the untraceable lua errors 20:06 VanessaE (was thinking 0.4.14) 20:08 est31 VanessaE, you'd like now to have 1.0.0 dont you :) 20:08 VanessaE est31: no. 20:08 VanessaE 1.0.0 would imply lots of *features* that are still on the drawing board. 20:08 VanessaE I'm not talking features, I'm talking about bugs. 20:09 VanessaE if it's in the issue list and it's not a feature request, it needs addressed 20:09 est31 some are a mixture 20:10 est31 "copy paste doesnt work" 20:10 est31 "mobs are shit" 20:10 hmmmm I wouldn't consider those bugs personally 20:10 VanessaE copy&paste is a bug but that's one of those low-prio ones. 20:10 VanessaE "mobs are shit" depends on adding a new feature 20:10 VanessaE (client-side modding) 20:11 est31 so you want to exclude everything that depends on features? 20:11 est31 also we should wonder about which gfx targets we want to have 20:12 est31 e.g. should we support the earliest buggiest implementation of opengl that exists on some old computer out there in the world 20:12 est31 note that im not rba and want to have super old version 20:12 VanessaE Everything that is at least "medium priority" and which doesn't require implementing some new feature in order to resolve to the satisfaction of the *reporter* 20:12 est31 err super new 20:13 est31 so you say we shouldnt release until 3018 is fixed? 20:13 hmmmm alright guys problem 20:14 est31 thats e.g. one of these shit bug reports 20:14 hmmmm HybridDog's method to reproduce a double fault doesn't cause the same error 20:14 est31 "if you click here click there move here move there, then this happens, and only hypothetically" 20:15 hmmmm the second thing causing the runtime error is the thing that causes a LUA_ERRERR, which gets rethrown as a LuaError, which gets caught by the first pcall 20:15 hmmmm which then runs the error handler, succesfully printing the backtrace 20:15 est31 I think the problem is minetest has far too much features in order to be called stable 20:15 est31 we should only consider bug reports from people who 20:15 est31 1. use gdb backtraces 20:16 est31 2. have NO MODS except minetest_game 20:16 VanessaE est31: impossible 20:16 est31 and 3. give us steps to reproduce and their config 20:16 VanessaE you need mods to reproduce some errors, particularly those which depend on an API call minetest_game doesn't uise 20:16 est31 otherwise its "impossible" to fix them 20:16 est31 and even then its hard 20:17 est31 if they say "it happens on my hardware", they should buy us an example, so that we can test, or help us fix it 20:17 est31 but if they say "please fix it, minetest is so super buggy shit, i hate you people", why should we do anything for them? 20:18 est31 I mean its just a git bisect 20:18 hmmmm because it's our software 20:18 VanessaE come on, enough with the slipper slope 20:18 VanessaE +y 20:18 hmmmm if there's any problems at all I'd be willing to bend over backwards to make it work 20:18 hmmmm a bug is like... embarassing 20:18 hmmmm even if it's not caused by me 20:18 hmmmm whenever I see a new error report I get a feeling of failure 20:20 est31 hmmmm, how would you fix the "sometimes its a bit laggy" bug? 20:20 hmmmm the 5 second lag thing? 20:20 est31 the one that has been mentioned here to be a blocker 20:20 est31 #2145 20:20 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2145 -- Multi-second lag in default singleplayer game 20:20 hmmmm look at callgrind outputs, but the links to the ones wayward mentioned are gone 20:21 hmmmm I didn't get the vibe that it's "sometimes a bit laggy" from that issue report 20:21 hmmmm sounds to me like it's a consistent problem that happens constantly and makes minetest unplayable 20:22 est31 first, lets make sure the person feels the same 20:22 est31 second, how would you fix it 20:22 VanessaE and if they say it's "laggy" find out if they mean server<->client latency or low FPS 20:22 hmmmm how it gets fixed depends on what the problem is 20:22 est31 ah i see he says "singleplayer is unplayable for me" 20:23 hmmmm we can't know one without the other 20:23 est31 what would be the next step in your opinion 20:23 est31 here 20:24 est31 I have fixed some of the bugs I deemed as critical 20:24 est31 in the past 20:25 hmmmm hmm 20:25 hmmmm well it depends on wayward or pilzadam showing up 20:25 hmmmm !seen pilzadam 20:25 ShadowBot hmmmm: I saw pilzadam in #minetest-dev 2 weeks, 5 days, 7 hours, 10 minutes, and 21 seconds ago saying "Zeno`, what else could be done instead of bisecting?" 20:25 hmmmm yikes.. 20:25 hmmmm !seen wayward_one 20:25 ShadowBot hmmmm: I saw wayward_one in #minetest-dev 1 week, 2 days, 7 hours, 14 minutes, and 38 seconds ago saying "celeron55: it seems the FAQ on forum.minetest.net returns a 403 error" 20:25 est31 #2942 20:25 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2942 -- Fix srp default password by est31 20:25 VanessaE !seen wayward_tab 20:25 ShadowBot VanessaE: I saw wayward_tab in #minetest-dev 5 weeks, 5 days, 19 hours, 29 minutes, and 3 seconds ago saying "The minimap doesn't seem to work for android atm. I just git pulled and built, and added the respective lines to minetest.conf, to no avail." 20:25 est31 #2915 20:25 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2915 -- Shift-Click in Minetest Game replicates items 20:25 est31 this is my regression 20:25 VanessaE feh. 20:26 est31 #2904 20:26 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2904 -- No sound on Android dev build 20:26 est31 not mine 20:26 est31 #2847 20:26 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2847 -- Font characters broken 20:27 est31 so dont tell me i dont fix bugs 20:27 hmmmm you do 20:27 hmmmm i never said you didn't... 20:27 est31 ok then 20:29 est31 our current master isn't much buggier than 0.4.12 is, no? 20:29 sfan5 est31: should i already make a build of git HEAD? 20:29 est31 so what about the following: we do a release, but we stay in freeze, and fix the bugs, and make a bugfix 0.4.14? 20:29 sfan5 also what about the translation import? 20:30 est31 ok, will do 20:30 VanessaE est31: fix the very worst of the worst bugs, releast 0.4.13, stay in freeze, fix everything else, release 0.4.14, then release the freeze. 20:31 VanessaE release* 20:31 VanessaE s/release the/end the/ 20:32 VanessaE and that means RBA's fancy features would have to wait until post-0.4.14 20:32 VanessaE oh hi RBA ;) 20:33 rubenwardy1 #3025 20:33 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3025 -- Fix segfaults caused by the Environment not being initialized yet by rubenwardy 20:33 sfan5 thanks est31 20:34 est31 3025 looks good 20:39 est31 ok, further reviews for 3025? 20:40 sfan5 looks good 20:40 nrzkt okay for me, but why m_env is not initalized and those calls are done ? 20:40 nrzkt how can m_env not being initialized when those calls are performed 20:41 est31 well its people not using the engine properly, and the engine doesnt give a clear message "you dont use me properly" 20:41 nrzkt m_env = new ServerEnvironment(servermap, m_script, this, m_path_world, m_area_mgr); 20:41 est31 so its bad 20:41 RealBadAngel est31, have you logged on skyblock today? 20:41 nrzkt sorry for the extra arg 20:41 est31 no 20:41 nrzkt it's in the Server constructor 20:41 RealBadAngel est31, give it a shot, theres something that should be visible from your base 20:41 nrzkt then, why m_env is called before in its initialization in Server constructor ? 20:41 nrzkt this is the good question and the good bugfix. 20:42 nrzkt to do* 20:43 est31 the environment isn't initialized at init tim 20:43 est31 time* 20:43 est31 look at server.cpp line 299 20:43 nrzkt it's in server constructor. What do you call init time ? 20:43 est31 the mods are loaded, then only we init the environment 20:44 nrzkt we should init m_env before mods no ? 20:44 est31 perhaps its more proper to not return, but give a nice proper "sorry i cannot do that dave" error 20:44 est31 why should we 20:44 est31 perhaps m_env depends on info from mods 20:44 nrzkt because mods depend on m_env 20:44 est31 i dont know the side effects of moving the change 20:45 est31 no, they dont have to 20:45 est31 of moving the m_env = call* 20:45 nrzkt m_env doesn't do anything in its constructor 20:46 est31 rubenwardy, seen the log? we are discussing your pr right now 20:46 sfan5 est31: I'll delay the builds for now (made a mistake w/ version number anyway), tell me if you have decided whether to merge rubenwardy's PR 20:47 sfan5 s/if/when/ 20:47 nrzkt if we could move m_env call before in Server constructor it's better for runtime 20:47 est31 but i dont know the side effects 20:47 est31 it seems too easy 20:47 est31 and its too short before a release to risk such a change 20:47 nrzkt we only need to look at m_env tests everywhere. 20:48 est31 amongst the argument that the side effects are not known 20:48 nrzkt Release could be delayed. Stability is better than give shit in users repo for undefined time 20:48 nrzkt i will not release for android with such bugs. 20:48 est31 which bug? 20:48 rubenwardy if there is no environmrnt, there'll be no players so a return is okay ( 20:48 nrzkt the sound bug ? 20:49 est31 it is fixed 20:49 est31 can you test latest master? 20:49 nrzkt the memleak bug ? which will cause many problems on android 20:49 est31 its older than 0.4.12 20:49 est31 so it already causes :) 20:49 rubenwardy if there is no env, there are no players, so returning is fine. Although they are still using it wrong. 20:49 est31 for the chat_send_players yes 20:49 nrzkt i don't have time tomorrow to test it, it's late and my build env has a little bit changed since 0.4.12 release i need to fix 20:49 est31 there its ok 20:50 nrzkt but please, don't give a release to have a release 20:50 est31 nrzkt, fine then, we have released android 0.4.12 independently from android too 20:51 rubenwardy I don't like the 0.4.13 then 0.4.14 idea. 20:51 nrzkt i also noticed my server was also stuck , maybe because of the emerge problem noticed, but it's very recent, since 1 month max... 20:51 rubenwardy seems a release for the sake of release 20:51 nrzkt +1 20:51 VanessaE rubenwardy: what would you do instead? 20:51 est31 well right now i am motivated to do things, perhaps once i am not motivated to do anything 20:51 nrzkt i am motivated to release a good minetest :) 20:52 est31 point me to an actual regression which was worse than 0.4.12 20:52 rubenwardy feature freeze can last another week. If the bugs remaining aren't so common, 20:53 rubenwardy omg, the backspace is too close to send :( 20:53 est31 in one week the really serious bugs wont be fixed either 20:53 rubenwardy so commonly found or vital, i guess they could be missed. 20:54 est31 i just want to release something so that players can enjoy the many fixes and additions that happened since 0.4.12 20:54 est31 and after the release, we can get better than any release before, regarding bugs 20:54 est31 because this seems to be the demand here 20:55 rubenwardy maybe switch to semver now, so we can issue patches 20:58 est31 ok let's not merge rubenwardy's pr right now, but do what nrzkt suggested, it doesn't seem that wrong 20:58 est31 s/right now// 20:59 est31 nrzkt, can you make a commit? 20:59 nrzkt yes i looked at the code and didn't see a reason to not move the m_env init before 20:59 nrzkt if you thing i don't see for this issue, please tell me :) 20:59 est31 I didnt see a reason either 21:01 rubenwardy hmmmm agrees with my methid 21:02 est31 silently ignoring the error? 21:02 est31 i've thought he likes to crash, and grind the server to a halt 21:02 nrzkt silently ignore error instead of fixing is not the better way if we can fix it easily 21:02 nrzkt est31: assert in debug mode permit to find unhandled cases which couldn't occurs 21:02 rubenwardy no, not initialising the environment first this close to release 21:03 rubenwardy #3025 21:03 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3025 -- Fix segfaults caused by the Environment not being initialized yet by rubenwardy 21:03 nrzkt s/couldn't/shouldn't/ 21:03 nrzkt rubenwardy: if m_env is initialized before mods in Server::Server this solve the problem too 21:04 nrzkt it's because some mods are executing some API code at server loadMod 21:04 est31 Either we should do it as right now, by crashing, or we should perhaps give a nicer error msg 21:04 est31 and then either crash, or resume 21:04 est31 explaining that we are initializing 21:04 nrzkt ignore m_env remove the behavious which could permit to do something on environnement at serverload 21:04 est31 but silently ignoring things will get modders file this as bug again 21:04 nrzkt behaviour*. This could be interesting 21:05 est31 it wont remove any behaviour 21:05 est31 because right now we crash at serverload 21:05 nrzkt atm it seems we could do lua calls when we load a mod 21:05 nrzkt this could be interesting to load env before to let mods do something too 21:06 est31 they cant do that interesting things 21:06 nrzkt atm no, i know 21:07 nrzkt but if we load env before mods: 1. we fix the crash 2. we permit mods to do something at server load 21:07 est31 rubenwardy, does hmmmm still talk to you in pm? why doesnt he talk here? 21:07 est31 2. isnt needed, and 1. isnt a problem if the error message has a backtrace to the mod 21:07 est31 and 2. is dangerous 21:08 est31 because many things e.g. aliases are still existing in incomplete form 21:08 rubenwardy Server::setTimeOfDay is a bad idea to silently fail 21:08 rubenwardy all the others are okay as they're player related 21:08 rubenwardy the roll back one was a mistake, i didnt mean to add it 21:09 nrzkt est31: exact 21:09 rubenwardy I'd be surprised if rollback could be run at load time 21:09 est31 the particle spawner ones give return values too. 21:09 nrzkt est31: i don't understand why mods are loaded soon in Server. They should be loaded last no ? 21:09 est31 if you remove the ones you mentioned, we can merge it imo 21:10 est31 nrzkt, some mods may depend on others 21:10 est31 classical example is the craft guide 21:10 rubenwardy so silently ignoring is absolutely fine, except for Server::setTimeOfDay 21:10 rubenwardy it shouldn't crash 21:10 nrzkt est31: ok 21:10 est31 no it isnt 21:10 est31 for player related yes 21:11 est31 but for the spawner things no 21:11 est31 but there you don't ignore silently 21:11 est31 you give actual return values 21:12 rubenwardy spawners are player related 21:12 est31 you should document that if id is -1 the addition failed 21:13 est31 and the return value for the deletion should be documented too 21:13 rubenwardy that was already returned 21:13 rubenwardy see the code below my addition 21:13 nrzkt a thing for next release, if we could use std::map instead of std::vector for hud client side and server side it could be good to preserve some rare case of client desync on player HUD id 21:13 est31 still it should be documented 21:13 rubenwardy but yes, whilst I am there i should add comments 21:14 rubenwardy i also made a mistake, all the comments i add should be "may" not "will" (only the first is correct) 21:16 est31 will is ok for me 21:16 rubenwardy nrzkt, how could a desync happen? 21:16 nrzkt i don't know but i notice this bug when using client in debug mode, the assertion can sometimes happen 21:18 rubenwardy est31 it's may as the environment could be non-null whilst initialised 21:18 rubenwardy but then again those functions won't be called other than mods in the init stage, afaik. 21:19 rubenwardy does the hud-add packet give an id to the client, to make the client have the same id? 21:19 est31 well it will be null sometime during initialisation 21:20 est31 whether thats the same time the method is called during initialisation isnt required 21:20 rubenwardy true 21:28 Niebieski Hey, I'm trying to add Minetest into list of open-source games on Wikipedia. 21:28 Niebieski https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_open-source_video_games 21:28 sfan5 do we have an article? 21:28 est31 nope 21:28 sfan5 i thought we didn't have one 21:28 est31 and we dont get one 21:28 est31 unless we get more "notable" 21:28 Niebieski We don't have to have an article to add into this list. 21:29 Niebieski I guess... 21:29 sfan5 est31: don't tell me Terasology has an article 21:29 Niebieski Refresh now I saved it. 21:29 sfan5 please say no 21:29 rubenwardy we need notable sources 21:29 kilbith we had an article on the french page but deleted because "MT was not enough important amongst dozens of clones" 21:29 sfan5 Niebieski: are you sure we don't need an article? literally every other entry has one 21:30 VanessaE sfan5: there doesn't appear to be a terasology article. 21:30 rubenwardy we're marked now, Wikipedia deletionists are watching our page 21:30 sfan5 there is a german minetest article though https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minetest 21:30 est31 Niebieski, just try to add it, wiki people will remove it if they dont like it 21:30 Niebieski No I'm not sure, but I added it anyway. 21:30 est31 and you arent related with us 21:30 Niebieski Hahahaha. xD 21:30 est31 seems wiki people dont like people related to projects editing pages about them 21:31 est31 s/with/to/ 21:31 est31 lol omg :D 21:31 Niebieski I'm telling you guys because I don't know what to add in the description ? 21:31 sfan5 est31: uploaded the mingw builds, based on current HEAD because there seems no conseus on whether to merge rubenwardy's PR 21:31 VanessaE Niebieski: "a C++ open source block sandbox game similar to Minecraft." 21:31 est31 sfan5, no problem 21:32 sfan5 Niebieski: "Open-Source, Voxel-based sandbox game similar to Minecraft" 21:32 est31 Right now I'm editing a slightly modified version of his pr 21:32 Niebieski Guys the list is about open-source games only. 21:32 sfan5 oh right 21:32 sfan5 drop the open-source then 21:33 Niebieski also no one has talked about technical specs of the game like coded in.. etc. 21:33 Niebieski I would say "voxel-base sandbox game similar to Minecraft". 21:34 Niebieski based* 21:34 sfan5 sounds good 21:36 est31 ok what bout https://github.com/est31/minetest/commit/91ecbd7bdb0b2bf4c8504cfd089d02d17e92cd66 21:36 est31 we dont need the new it seems 21:37 est31 pushing that in 5 minutes 21:38 sfan5 seems ok 21:38 est31 also tested it, the error works 21:38 est31 even shows where exactly the error occured 21:38 est31 which lua line 21:39 rubenwardy check that -1 is in fact returned to lua 21:39 est31 yes 21:39 rubenwardy as server.deletepartile != l_env::l_delete_particle 21:39 rubenwardy okay 21:41 nrzkt why throw on delete but not in add ? 21:42 rubenwardy because right below it fails silently on no player 21:43 est31 you mean the deletion? 21:43 est31 agreed, that should be fixed too 21:44 rubenwardy no, in add there's if (player) 21:44 est31 it does return -1; there 21:44 est31 thats not silent 21:44 est31 it gives the error to lua 21:45 est31 there /is/ a silent fail in deleteParticleSpawner 21:45 est31 but dunno if we should throw an error there 21:45 est31 if a player doesnt exist, it usually means they have logged off 21:47 rubenwardy if there is no environment, then there are no players. 21:47 est31 agreed 21:47 rubenwardy although the mod is still using the api wrong 21:47 est31 see what i have pushed http://git.io/v3tqV 21:49 est31 nrzkt, you still around? 21:51 nrzkt est31: not for a long time, i will go to bed. What do you want ? 21:51 est31 is the android version code 13 accurate? 21:51 hmmmm wow lots of talk 21:51 hmmmm I wanted to talk to rubenwardy in PM about delete_area specifically to reduce crosstalk and noise 21:52 nrzkt i look at the console to be sure 21:52 hmmmm I also approve of the way things dependent upon the environment being active are handled 21:52 est31 version code 13 for minetest 0.4.13 21:52 hmmmm if you guys don't like the silent error thing, then it's trivial, just change return type to a bool, fail by returning false, throw LuaError if the server method returns false 21:53 hmmmm "Environment not initialized yet" 21:53 nrzkt current play store version is 11 21:53 hmmmm moving the environment creation before the mod initialization might be a mistake 21:53 est31 ok then, its larger :) 21:53 hmmmm there are VERY subtle side effects with changing the ordering of initialization of things 21:53 est31 ^ 21:53 nrzkt yes, for releasing i need at least 12 :) 21:53 est31 that was my main concern too. 21:53 hmmmm I screwed up one time by moving something around 21:54 hmmmm besides, setTimeOfDay or whatever would get overwritten when the env meta is loaded 21:54 hmmmm so it's kinda useless 21:54 est31 yea 21:55 nrzkt recent comment: Crashed on me First I spawned In a lagoon and died. Than It crashed on me 21:55 nrzkt The interface of this game needs some work... This Mobile Version loses too much FPS, also the HUD, Crafting Menu, Pause Menu, the Main Menu needs some work to be Mobile Friendly. :) 21:55 est31 agreed 21:56 nrzkt Unplayable for me Tapped the button to increase the UI size multiple times when I first played. The taps took like 10 seconds to register. Of course I tapped too many times. Now the UI is fucked up and unusable. I did try to clear data/cache/reinstall but nothing changed. 21:56 est31 clearing data doesnt work 21:56 est31 its the "proper paths" problem 21:56 est31 look into your sdcard folder 21:56 nrzkt i see, we are using a stupid data path 21:57 est31 there is a directory "Minetest" 21:57 est31 remove or rename it 21:57 nrzkt not very user friendly 22:01 rubenwardy the black screen on start up isn't very good also 22:01 est31 it is neccessary right now, but will be removed 22:01 est31 (mostly) 22:02 rubenwardy there are a lot of items on screen, hide them if they didn't have the privs, and maybe move some to pause 22:02 est31 ? 22:02 rubenwardy pressing the back button breaks flow, I'd like a close button on screen. it's close not back 22:03 rubenwardy the fly/noclip/view all/fast/debug icons 22:03 est31 its the android way 22:03 est31 about the back button 22:03 rubenwardy it doesn't feel right 22:03 est31 for me it does 22:04 est31 and besides we dont have it on normal minetest either 22:04 est31 e.g. on desktop 22:04 VanessaE back (out of formspec) --> back (out of the active play) --> back (out of the back, to the home screen) 22:04 VanessaE seems logical to me 22:05 VanessaE out of the app* 22:05 rubenwardy also, creative inventory - back doesn't go back a page 22:05 VanessaE why would it? 22:05 rubenwardy because it's back 22:06 VanessaE that ain't how it works in android :) 22:06 rubenwardy it took me a few minutes to work out back = pause menu 22:06 VanessaE it's not "page back", it's "previous item in history". 22:07 rubenwardy my back button vibrates and takes half a second to work 22:07 rubenwardy which is probably the main cause of breaking 22:08 rubenwardy (breaking flow) 22:08 VanessaE turn off haptic feedback then :) 22:08 est31 btw whats the default mapgen? 22:08 rubenwardy also, I would like to see ab official Minetrst play account, nrz is unprofessional 22:08 est31 v7 or v6? 22:08 VanessaE (I honestly never understood the need for it in many situations where it's used. that usual "pwop!" sound seems to be enough for me) 22:08 VanessaE est31: v6 22:09 est31 good 22:09 rubenwardy turn it off for all apps? 22:09 est31 ok then, seems I can make the release commit 22:09 VanessaE rubenwardy: I guess so. this is OS-level stuff isn't it? 22:09 rubenwardy it still doesnt solve the half second lag. 22:10 rubenwardy could you click outisde of a formspec to close? 22:10 rubenwardy that would solve the problen 22:10 nrzkt rubenwardy: i don't see why i'm unprofesionnal, it's a gratis sentence, but i'm out, and if you have 100$ to give to google, go. 22:11 est31 nice, mushrooms 22:11 rubenwardy isn't it £10? 22:11 * VanessaE throws a badger at est31 22:11 rubenwardy lol 22:11 est31 rofl 22:11 rubenwardy it doesnt matter that much though 22:12 est31 what are the spores for? 22:12 rubenwardy for children etc (looking at the reviews) it isn't that obvious to press the back buttons 22:13 VanessaE so you can farm more mushrooms 22:13 est31 hrmm, there seems to be a bug 22:13 rubenwardy but if i can press the bg, I'm fine :P 22:13 VanessaE rubenwardy: it also isn't obvious to them that this isn't minecraft, either 22:13 est31 when I mine a mushroom, i get a mushroom plus some spores 22:13 VanessaE I've lost count of the number of times someone's written game[ ]mode[ ]1 22:13 est31 now when I place that mushroom I got, I get again a mushroom plus some spores 22:13 est31 we need a mushroom_without_spores node 22:14 VanessaE est31: sounds like drops aren't configured right 22:14 VanessaE there's supposed to be a way to only drop one OR the other 22:14 est31 ok 22:14 est31 can you fix this? 22:15 VanessaE er...where's the code? 22:15 est31 flowers mod 22:16 VanessaE wat 22:16 VanessaE that's a weird place to put it 22:16 est31 https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blob/master/mods/flowers/init.lua 22:16 VanessaE found it. 22:16 rubenwardy not the floral debate again :( 22:17 rubenwardy anyway, gtg 22:17 est31 bye 22:17 VanessaE wait 22:17 VanessaE est31: add "max_items = 1" to the drop def for that node 22:17 VanessaE right before line 148 22:18 VanessaE that should ensure that the user never gets both. 22:18 VanessaE oh it was ruben leaving. fine. gtfo ;) 22:19 est31 hrmmm, can you also drop stacks? 22:19 est31 because it would be good to drop multiple mushrooms 22:19 est31 err seeds 22:19 VanessaE I've never tried 22:19 VanessaE but I think so 22:19 VanessaE it's probably just a matter of appending a space and the stack count 22:19 VanessaE (as in any other itemstack usage) 22:19 est31 yea 22:20 VanessaE now as for where that code belongs, frankly I'd have preferred it to be in farming mod. 22:21 hmmmm hum :/ 22:21 hmmmm I can't replicate an error in error handling with a triple-nested setup 22:21 VanessaE mushrooms are not plants, let alone flowers, and can be farmed, more or less 22:25 est31 agreed 22:26 est31 but i dont know minetest_game policy well enough to do such a change before a release 22:26 VanessaE well it's not a bug, and changing it now would break nodes 22:27 VanessaE (because they're all prefixed "flowers:" and soon I'll have to adapt plantlife's mod to use them) 22:27 VanessaE so I guess it stays. 22:28 * VanessaE looks at the number of merge conflicts between dreambuilder and upstream minetest_game and cries a little 22:40 hmmmm I think we should take a very close, hard look at travelnet 22:40 hmmmm this may be the cause of error in error handling 22:40 VanessaE well, I DO use it on my servers 22:40 * VanessaE pokes Sokomine 22:40 hmmmm I cross correlated with thatgraemeguy, cornernote, tchncs, and now you 22:41 * hmmmm goes to install travelnet 22:41 est31 VanessaE, what bout http://pastebin.com/HayDBFmh 22:41 hmmmm that is literally the only shared mod between all people who have the problem :) 22:41 VanessaE est31: that seems right to me. 22:42 VanessaE hmmmm: that said, it's a fairly popular mod. might be a good candidate for inclusion into minetest_game (after the current problem is sorted and any bugs therein are fixed) 22:43 est31 it does change gameplay 22:43 est31 before, you had to walk, now you can take the travelnet 22:43 VanessaE yes, but not in an essential way, after all a singleplayer user can just /teleport if they want 22:45 VanessaE and most servers have some kind of limited-teleport mod installed also. 22:46 VanessaE hmmmm: got any particular failure in mind in that mod, btw? 22:48 hmmmm not yet 22:48 hmmmm but whatever it is 22:48 hmmmm it is NOT the same thing as hybriddog posted 22:49 VanessaE hybrid dog uses a "hacked" client. 22:49 hmmmm ? what do you mean 22:50 VanessaE various client modifications, for example he can place a nodee by writing something like "please place 1 2 3" or so. 22:50 VanessaE I don't know what all. 22:50 hmmmm oh yeah but that has nothing to do with this 22:50 VanessaE [off] and he's a known griefer, so take his comments with a grain of salt. 22:50 hmmmm i think he's been pretty helpful tbh 22:50 hmmmm i like him 22:50 VanessaE well just saying to keep it in mind. 22:51 VanessaE [off] I used to think he was okay until he griefed my servers. twice. exploiting the nature of lava/water flow->cooling to cause major server lag 22:51 VanessaE [off] he is the reason I added the alternate lavacooling method used in gloopblocks. 23:06 est31 hrmm, mushrooms are very easy to farm as it seems 23:06 est31 easier than farming crops 23:07 est31 well, thats not that important 23:07 VanessaE btw let's resolve game#611 before release 23:07 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/611 -- Junglewood texture too light, boring 23:08 est31 is that a 0.4.12 "regression"? 23:08 VanessaE not exactly as such 23:08 VanessaE it's a style regression that frankly looks terrible, and apparently a lot of people agree 23:09 est31 I agree too 23:09 VanessaE I figured we could hash out the two textures being discussed (the jungle tree top and jungle wood planks) and get that in for the release. 23:10 VanessaE this wood, https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/611#issuecomment-128830359 23:10 VanessaE and whatever we decide on for the top (I think my last post is pretty good) 23:11 est31 like your last one 23:11 est31 do you want to make a pr? 23:11 VanessaE I can do that but I don't wanna take credit for kilbith's wood image 23:11 est31 you can make two commits, and I'll change the author for the wood 23:11 VanessaE ok. 23:11 VanessaE moment. 23:12 est31 I like your last trunk image btw 23:12 est31 stilll a slight bit too coffe-ish, but overall good 23:16 VanessaE https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/618 23:19 VanessaE wait, lemme fix lazyj's credit. 23:19 est31 well, part of it is your texture too 23:20 VanessaE nah 23:20 VanessaE all I did was combine his + default 23:20 VanessaE fixed. 23:23 VanessaE huh, see kilbith's comment on that PR? O_o 23:25 est31 o_O 23:26 VanessaE maybe I coulda turned the color sat down a bit but I thought it looked good 23:27 kilbith ok, wtf is that commit ? https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/commit/6a64ec4dac8c92b8435107fb6ab1bc6bb7ce1820 23:27 kilbith is that a mistake or are you just breaking the damn rules ? 23:28 est31 removed it, was against the rules 23:28 kilbith same for that : https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/commit/39de13fe9e816446c2a54ead7166863d2d7656e8 23:28 kilbith and the previous one 23:29 est31 The mushrooms had to be fixed, otherwise people get too much on servers, etc. 23:29 est31 about trunks, we already had a regressed release 23:30 kilbith do you realize that you have 50% of chance to not get a mushroom in your inv ? 23:30 kilbith are you experienced in modding ? 23:31 est31 i have read the algorithm, and this seemed satisfying to me 23:31 kilbith you just added a new feature 23:31 est31 you have 50% chance to not get a mushroom 23:31 kilbith without getting 2 approvals 23:32 kilbith this is so stupid, you dig a mushroom, you get it 23:32 est31 its a bug, i wanted to fix it 23:32 kilbith the bug was for the spores 23:33 est31 perhaps the proper fix would have been to register mushroom_without_spores 23:33 est31 then have an abm to add the spores 23:33 est31 but it gives terrible gameplay 23:33 kilbith no discussion, nothing.. 23:34 VanessaE kilbith: btw, real strangler fig wood: http://urbanforestrecycling.com/_Media/sany0003-4-1_med.jpeg (so mine/lazyj's image is actually pretty close to the darker parts of those boards) 23:34 est31 you can still make it easier, but making it harder is hard on public servers if people have chests full of it 23:34 est31 imagine if nyan cats were as common if stones 23:35 est31 as* 23:35 est31 and then you make them super rare 23:35 est31 nobody will be believed they added it 23:36 est31 we have RC commits set for what the release should be 23:36 est31 s/added it/dug it after the super rare event/ 23:36 est31 so, fine, the commits are tagged 23:37 est31 tomorrow sb can write the changelog, and the release can be made "official" 23:50 Hijiri est31: just make it require chests full of it 23:50 Hijiri maybe 5 23:50 est31 lol