Time Nick Message 00:14 paramat now pushing 528 to game 00:21 paramat complete 01:17 Wayward_Tab It seems the Android build may have been broken by one of the latest commits 01:18 est31 Wayward_Tab, you do regular android builds? 01:18 est31 can you do a clean re-clone and re-build? 01:19 Wayward_Tab I do. 01:19 Wayward_Tab Sure 01:26 Wayward_Tab I'm getting an error now: /bin/sh: 5: svn: not found 01:26 Wayward_Tab I just built it successfully a few minutes ago 01:30 Wayward_One Here's the current error from the fresh directory: http://pastebin.com/HAurs124 01:34 est31 do you have svn installed? 01:34 est31 what does svn --version output? 01:35 est31 did you follow this guide: http://dev.minetest.net/Android#Building_Android_from_master_branch 01:36 Wayward_One hmm, it seems it was not installed. i've been building successfully without it though 01:36 est31 heh 01:39 Wayward_One and yes, i followed the guide, and when i upgraded my os i copied everything (except subversion, it seems) over to the new install, and it continued to build correctly. the only time i got that error was from the fresh clone 01:39 est31 that makes sense 01:39 est31 because svn is only used for fresh clones 01:39 est31 not when you copy 01:39 Wayward_One ah, ok 01:40 Wayward_One anywho, it's installed now :P 01:40 Wayward_One re-building now 02:03 Wayward_One it finished with an error, here's the output: http://pastebin.com/ZWRnT9ri 02:04 est31 you need m4 02:04 est31 as described in the guide :) 02:04 Wayward_Tab Oh yeah, duh... new clone... 02:30 Wayward_Tab Ok, finished and installed, and still getting the same error- ERROR: Couldn't resolve address: No address associated with hostname 02:30 Wayward_Tab Despite having an address 02:31 est31 ? 02:31 est31 same?? 02:31 Wayward_Tab Yep 02:31 est31 why same? 02:31 Wayward_Tab No idea 02:31 est31 also when does it appear? 02:31 est31 while building? 02:31 est31 starting? 02:31 est31 playing? 02:32 Wayward_Tab When trying to join a server 02:32 Wayward_Tab Also, the input box for the password has a character in it already when opened 02:32 Wayward_Tab Unlike before 02:33 Wayward_Tab And the username has what seem to be spaces already input as well 02:33 Wayward_Tab Also unusual 02:33 est31 hrmm 02:33 est31 but only on android... 02:36 Wayward_Tab http://imgur.com/bMs3eu0 02:36 Wayward_Tab http://imgur.com/vqoMBqE 02:36 Wayward_Tab http://imgur.com/l1SCRKG 02:36 est31 yes I know 02:37 est31 I can reproduce it myself 02:37 Wayward_One ah, ok 02:58 Wayward_Tab Shall I file an issue...? 02:58 Wayward_Tab If it'll help any 03:09 paramat currently fixing the settings of 'is ground content', why are trees and leaves 'false'? all other plantlife is 'true' 03:22 est31 Wayward_Tab, yes file one 03:34 paramat i feel like adding a newline at the end of files i work on, not sure if this is good or bad, or different code style for lua and c++ 03:37 kahrl paramat: all text files should end in a newline 03:39 paramat thanks, not code files then 03:40 kahrl code is text :P 03:40 est31 hehe 03:41 paramat aha i see 03:41 kahrl basically I meant everything that file -i identifies as "text/..." 03:42 paramat i'm getting into the habit of adding them to everything i work on, they're missing in so many places 04:07 paramat Sokomine and all https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/539 -- Fix is_ground_content settings for nodes, remove line if the default of true 04:45 est31 Wayward_Tab, Wayward_One you can use this commit if you want, it fixes the issue, but its no proper fix https://github.com/est31/minetest/commit/a456b3cf7d28e57ca80912e6aa07df59ffe3969c 04:48 Wayward_Tab Ok, I'll try it tomorrow 06:15 est31 somehow wide_to_utf8 is broken on android 06:15 est31 utf8_to_wide isn't 06:29 est31 gonna push in 5 minutes: https://github.com/est31/minetest/commit/60f31ad52348c53209701d0112f9f809018f7188 06:30 sfan5 looks good 06:31 est31 pushing now then 06:31 sfan5 but why do we have wide_to_utf8 when wide_to_narrow does the same? 06:31 est31 does wide_to_narrow do the same? 06:31 sfan5 apparently 06:32 est31 it does the same for simple charsets like ascii 06:32 sfan5 otherwise you couldn't just forward the call to wide_to_narrow 06:32 sfan5 or does it not do exactly the same? 06:32 est31 but wchar_t (or wstring) isn't something you should send over the network 06:32 est31 so yes it does the same in most situations, but not all 06:32 sfan5 why not? 06:32 sfan5 oh ok 06:32 est31 e.g. when you have other system planes 06:33 sfan5 other system planes? 06:33 sfan5 so wide to narrow uses the native charset? 06:33 est31 yes 06:33 est31 I dont know what it does when the first byte isn't 0. 06:34 sfan5 iirc wide_to_narrow is a hack on android 06:34 sfan5 but it works so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 06:48 RealBadAngel Taoki, minimap also is workin as a separate thread 06:48 RealBadAngel at least most heavy calculations 06:50 est31 btw, does it create a separate irrlicht context for that? 06:50 est31 or does it not access the irrlicht context? 06:52 RealBadAngel context? 06:52 RealBadAngel you mean things being displayed? 06:53 est31 the stuff thats accessed by the main thread already and cant be shared with other threads 06:53 RealBadAngel we are communicating 06:54 RealBadAngel mapblock mesh update thread makes also data for minimap 06:54 est31 so do you render it in the thread and pass a bitmap? 06:54 RealBadAngel send it to main 06:54 est31 or do you do something else 06:54 RealBadAngel when i got that data in block->minimap 06:55 RealBadAngel i make an image out of it and display it just before the HUD 06:56 RealBadAngel also, the way im displaying it is very important 06:56 RealBadAngel i display a mesh 06:56 est31 ah like the mesh thread then 06:57 RealBadAngel that means theres a simple way to display cubes in formspecs 06:57 RealBadAngel even animated 06:57 RealBadAngel like when hoovered over 06:58 RealBadAngel that will let us get rid of inventory images once and for all 06:58 est31 no why 06:58 est31 first tools 06:59 est31 second, sometimes you dont want the rendered block, but an abstraction 06:59 est31 like when one makes a sapling with a nodebox 06:59 RealBadAngel if we have ability to display mesh in a slot we wont need extra textures 06:59 est31 but still wants to have the known sapling symbol 06:59 RealBadAngel maybe we can allow forcing such image 07:00 RealBadAngel but in most cases we need a block or a mesh 07:00 RealBadAngel atm we render such blocks and save resulting image 07:00 RealBadAngel its SICK! 07:01 est31 so you want to render it every frame instead? 07:01 RealBadAngel fuck, why 07:01 est31 so whats the difference then between what was and what you want to change 07:01 RealBadAngel do you calll rendering a dirt node each frame, something that has to be done 07:02 RealBadAngel or ? 07:02 RealBadAngel and whats the difference where this node is/ 07:02 RealBadAngel in the world or in inv 07:02 est31 a node in world can be seen from different angles 07:03 est31 and distances 07:03 est31 there can be other nodes before it 07:03 est31 and so on 07:03 RealBadAngel and its heavier 07:03 est31 it makes sense to render it every frame 07:03 est31 but a node in inventory only is viewed from one angle distance and light 07:03 RealBadAngel because you do render hundreds of nodes 07:03 RealBadAngel ok ok 07:03 est31 so why should we call the render loop on that over and over again 07:04 RealBadAngel now take 3500k of nodes 07:04 est31 the result is always the same 07:04 RealBadAngel each with 6 textures 07:04 RealBadAngel calculate ammount of ram 07:04 RealBadAngel to have those inv images 07:04 RealBadAngel and you will have an answer why mt needs 16gb 07:05 est31 so you say its about the inventory icons? 07:05 est31 they should be cached 07:05 RealBadAngel what cache means? 07:05 RealBadAngel once loaded takes mem 07:06 RealBadAngel its all this funny politics 07:06 est31 or another idea 07:06 RealBadAngel modders thinks that operators are simple and easy 07:06 est31 perhaps when somebody opens a formspec, the images are generated on the fly 07:07 RealBadAngel but simple operation on two textures creates 3rd one 07:07 est31 then they are only rendered once 07:07 RealBadAngel too slow 07:07 est31 too slow? 07:07 RealBadAngel ofc 07:07 est31 you want to render them every frame! 07:07 RealBadAngel preload item visuals 07:07 est31 thats even slower! 07:07 RealBadAngel NO 07:07 est31 so what are we discussing about 07:07 RealBadAngel GPU does that 07:08 est31 and for some people the GPU is shit 07:08 RealBadAngel compare inventory made of lets say 100 nodes 07:08 RealBadAngel to world made of thousands (visible) 07:09 RealBadAngel do you get it? 07:09 est31 yes 07:09 est31 you still will have to cover comparable sizes of screen 07:09 RealBadAngel no need 07:09 est31 so 600x600 pixels filled with world 07:09 RealBadAngel you define a viewport 07:09 est31 or 600x600 pixels filled with formspec 07:10 RealBadAngel just a tiny small one for the image 07:10 est31 all full with items 07:10 est31 in the result, its the same 07:10 RealBadAngel not rly 07:10 est31 ok there is a small difference I admit 07:10 est31 or a medium one 07:10 RealBadAngel if you work on lets say 32x32 slot, how much computation power would you need? 07:11 RealBadAngel in pixels of course 07:11 RealBadAngel propably old timex watch could do some frames for us realtime ;) 07:11 est31 ok you convinced me 07:11 est31 what I want is perfection, but its ok if its only excellent :) 07:12 RealBadAngel theres no such thing as perfection 07:12 RealBadAngel theres only way to reach it 07:12 est31 still I want it :D 07:12 RealBadAngel so, youre on your way ;) 07:13 est31 I guess what you propose is much better than what currently is there 07:13 RealBadAngel less memory, faster fps 07:14 RealBadAngel look what i did with nodeboxes 07:14 RealBadAngel its fairly the same thing 07:14 est31 faster fps? 07:14 est31 by rendering each frame? 07:14 est31 what is exactly your plan? 07:14 RealBadAngel we dont have any nodeboxes anymore 07:14 RealBadAngel at least on c++ side 07:15 est31 ok 07:15 RealBadAngel my plan is to use native irrlicht ways of displaying things 07:16 est31 ok 07:16 RealBadAngel also i need the power that is atm spent on bullshits like those inv images 07:16 RealBadAngel and memory 07:17 RealBadAngel its an abomination that HDX texture pack occupies 12-13gb 07:18 * VanessaE hides 07:18 est31 RealBadAngel, still your plan is to render the nodes every frame, again and again, rendering the same thing just because its a "native" irrlicht way? 07:18 RealBadAngel est31, you dont get it 07:18 est31 yes or no 07:18 RealBadAngel i want to display MESHES 07:18 VanessaE est31: your question raises another: what's the difference whether it eats a bit more GPU, if the player is merely in a formspec? 07:18 RealBadAngel not textures 07:19 RealBadAngel i want to display 3d objects 07:19 RealBadAngel the thing for we have hired 3d engine 07:20 RealBadAngel and which is letting GPU do the hard workd 07:20 RealBadAngel -d 07:20 est31 RealBadAngel, I agree that this will sink the memory footprint, but I still dont see how it will spare "power" 07:20 RealBadAngel let us higlight some words 07:21 RealBadAngel 4gb - 16gb with HD, swap 07:21 RealBadAngel swap is the most lovely here ;) 07:21 est31 what do you mean by swap? 07:22 RealBadAngel if game needs 16gb to run, but has physical 4gb, what happens? 07:22 est31 yes performance is shit, but thats still "only" a memory problem 07:22 RealBadAngel because of such things 07:23 RealBadAngel i can unroll thousands of loops for sake of performation but will hunt down each sign of such waste 07:24 est31 meh, I realize I dont even know how it does things right now (I recall that preloading item visuals is disabled by default) 07:24 RealBadAngel and done on request 07:24 RealBadAngel so at the very end you will end up with memory filled 07:25 RealBadAngel either you will pay with your time at the startup 07:26 RealBadAngel or face waiting for next page of inv to show up 07:26 RealBadAngel those images are generated no matter you love them or not 07:27 est31 and if its done by the gpu, its done every frame 07:27 est31 yes, the gpu is more efficient 07:27 RealBadAngel first of all, when youre in a formspec fps is limited to 20fps 07:27 est31 but even if it were 1000x more efficient, the advantage would be gone after about one minute of viewing 07:28 RealBadAngel it gives you 40 fps worth time to jump around 07:29 RealBadAngel est31. do you actually think that rendering a texture takes no time? 07:29 est31 RealBadAngel, you think that rendering a texture takes more time than a mesh? 07:29 RealBadAngel its being converted to a mesh plane 07:29 RealBadAngel then displayed 07:30 RealBadAngel maybe with differnt engine it could be faster (but theres still price of having the look prerendered) 07:31 RealBadAngel but not with irrlicht 07:31 est31 ok then 07:31 est31 didnt know that 07:31 est31 I agree then to you :) 07:32 RealBadAngel you will notice only speed up 07:32 RealBadAngel and less memory used 07:32 RealBadAngel that i can promise 08:40 est31 if we only measure by commit number, we have more commits since 0.4.12 release than between any two following releases from 0.4.12 to 0.4.8 (havent checked before that) 08:55 kilbith celeron55, there are 2 bugs so far on the forum : https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=181773#p181773 09:19 kilbith sfan5: feedback on this please : https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/540 09:20 est31 ++1 09:20 est31 ah dammit +1 is no l-value 09:20 est31 then +1 :) 09:27 celeron55 sorry for the forum kind of hanging up occasionally, i'm working on some backup stuff and apparently it just locks up mariadb completely 09:29 celeron55 (i hate mysql, and myself for not using postgresql for this originally) 09:30 sfan5 can't you migrate to postgres? 09:30 celeron55 it's pretty much impossible 09:31 celeron55 there's a reason why postgresql is better 09:31 celeron55 the reason involves it not being compatible with mysql 09:31 celeron55 seriously, try taking a phpbb database and migrating it 8D you will find out what i mean 09:47 celeron55 i guess i could explain a bit: the first thing you will see is that a large amount of the types do not match 09:47 celeron55 and the second thing you will notice is that constraints work differently 09:47 celeron55 and you will also notice that they are impossible to automate and there is like a hundred tables to convert 09:48 celeron55 and indexes work differently 09:56 celeron55 it looks like people are now managing to register on the forum so the one broken blacklist was apparently the only broken one 10:03 est31 pushing in 5 minutes https://github.com/est31/minetest/commit/8b29699b0df0bd746437d4cbb3aba06900195b8f 10:03 sfan5 est31: testUTF -> testUTF8 10:04 est31 *shrug* changing 10:04 sfan5 also do you really need all the std::string constructor calls in testStartsWith 10:04 sfan5 ? 10:04 est31 yes 10:04 est31 unfortunately 10:04 sfan5 won't it automatically convert to std::string 10:05 est31 usually yes but not here, because I think its a template method 10:05 sfan5 hm 10:05 sfan5 est31: "the shovel digged a crumbly node!" -> "the shovel dug a crumbly node!" 10:06 est31 ah english tenses 10:06 est31 https://github.com/est31/minetest/commit/c5de5c5f7a677f9c6ffc4ddf022089a485d78057 10:07 sfan5 looks good 10:08 est31 pushed 10:08 est31 (commit mostly needed for the utf8 tests) 13:25 celeron55 bleh, mariadb filled /var with some kind of dumb binary logs and now everything is stuck 13:25 celeron55 hang on there, lol 13:29 celeron55 i can't even login to mysqld now, i guess i'll just remove the files 8D 13:32 celeron55 now my spoon fell into my trash can; i think this is exactly the moment when i should be working with databases 13:37 celeron55 (i actually knew i was running out of disk space, but due to this spoon-into-trashcan mode i thought it was /home instead of /var 8)) 13:38 celeron55 (anyway it works now, except that not *right* now because it's again running a backup thing that locks up everything) 14:33 RealBadAngel #2783 ive updated textures displacement PR here 14:33 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2783 -- Improve displacement mapping by RealBadAngel 14:34 RealBadAngel i believe its rdy to merge, anybody wanna test it a bit? 14:35 RealBadAngel nore? 15:14 celeron55 fuck, how does one add a redirect in nginx from something like /viewtopic.php?id= to /viewtopic.php?t= 15:16 RealBadAngel celeron55, RedirectMatch ? 15:17 kahrl that sounds apachy 15:19 RealBadAngel kahrl, can you check #2783? 15:19 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2783 -- Improve displacement mapping by RealBadAngel 15:21 kahrl RealBadAngel: I don't understand the changes in minetest.conf.example 15:22 kahrl why the newline above enable_shaders? why remove the comment about enable_bumpmapping? 15:23 sfan5 celeron55: rewrite "^/viewtopic.php?id=([0-9]+)(.*)$" "/viewtopic.php?t=$1$2" || and the forum is 502 currently 15:23 kahrl the convention is to have the description of an option above the option 15:23 celeron55 well 502 is better than serving php file sources like a moment ago 15:24 celeron55 oh... or now 15:24 celeron55 well this isn't too good 15:24 celeron55 sfan5: that doesn't work; nginx does not include get parameters in the uri like that 15:25 sfan5 it doesn't? 15:25 sfan5 thats stupid 15:25 celeron55 it's usually useful 15:25 sfan5 hm 15:25 sfan5 didn't xyz have some code snippet in viewtopic.php that used id if there was no t param? 15:26 celeron55 yes 15:26 celeron55 it had a patch in that code and i want to get rid of it 15:26 sfan5 // Replace naughty words such as farty pants 15:26 sfan5 $row['post_subject'] = censor_text($row['post_subject']); 15:26 sfan5 hm 15:26 sfan5 why does phpbb have such functions 15:26 sfan5 (the viewtopic.php i just downloaded line 1399) 15:28 celeron55 i don't read phpbb code 15:28 celeron55 i refuse to 15:30 kahrl RealBadAngel: in translateMesh/scaleMesh, I think u32 would be better than u16 for vertex_count and i 15:30 kahrl (not your fault, but change it anyway) 15:31 kahrl the type u16 of indices restricts the number of vertices to 65536, but (u16) 65536 is 0 15:33 kahrl what's the motivation behind making MeshCollector a class? 15:41 celeron55 i guess i have no other option than to add the extra PHP junk to viewtopic.php then 15:41 celeron55 http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/7406797/ 15:41 celeron55 this 15:41 jbb are you woking at the forums error? 15:41 celeron55 no 15:42 celeron55 i'm closing the forums down because phpbb sucks 15:42 jbb ok 15:42 jbb will it comeback soon? 15:42 celeron55 never 15:43 celeron55 this is the end 15:43 jbb oh 15:44 RealBadAngel kahrl, ooops, i made it a class when was coding templates (dropped idea) 15:44 RealBadAngel will change it back to struct 15:45 Krock HAHAH 15:45 Krock It's the end. 15:45 RealBadAngel jbb is on the other side already 15:46 RealBadAngel c55 you shouldnt be so cruel ;) 15:46 celeron55 i take no responsibility 15:46 celeron55 the one is responsible who caused the switch to phpbb 15:50 Calinou "PunBB: No pun intended." 15:50 Calinou "phpBB: As long as it works! We share our motto with WordPress." 15:51 celeron55 i'm starting to get the hang of being a proper BOFH 15:52 celeron55 i cannot feel the pain of forum users enduring the 2 minute hang of my backup script during european afternoon times anymore 15:52 celeron55 it's nothing 15:59 RealBadAngel kahrl, ok changed that 16:01 VanessaE celeron55: is there a better alternative than phpbb to which the forum data can be ported? (and which is powerful enough and actively supported) 16:01 Calinou lots of them, the exporting is the hard part 16:01 Calinou anti-spam too but less known forum systems have naturally less spam 16:01 Calinou phpBB is a victim of its success 16:08 jbb at freeminers websites is a forum which copies all articels from minetests forum 16:08 jbb here is the link http://forum.freeminer.org/ 16:09 VanessaE we don't talk about that program here. 16:12 celeron55 VanessaE: well all of them are kind of experimental 16:12 celeron55 and then there are some paid ones 16:12 celeron55 which aren't really worth their price 16:13 ajmiles "Almost infinite world and a fairly good map generator (limited to ±31000 blocks in all directions)." 16:13 celeron55 (and which don't really suit this community anyway) 16:13 ajmiles infinite or 31,000, which is it? 16:13 kilbith *almost* infinite 16:13 celeron55 ajmiles: nothing is infinite, ever 16:14 ajmiles not really what I was asking 16:15 celeron55 infinite limited to 31000 is 31000 16:16 ajmiles might start telling people I have infinite money in that case :) 16:16 ajmiles seems strange to brag about 31,000 being almost infinite when Minecraft itself has worlds many times larger than almost infinite 16:16 RealBadAngel spending money is easier than for example 100km trip on foot ;) 16:17 celeron55 ajmiles: your decision to compare with minecraft is your own, though 16:17 celeron55 we don't generally do that 16:17 ajmiles you're not Freeminer either though right 16:18 ajmiles was just referring to a quote on the project page for the link jbb posted 16:18 celeron55 well minetest's marketing material generally says the same 16:18 ajmiles does it have the same limitation or +- 2^15 ? 16:18 ajmiles *of 16:18 celeron55 yes 16:18 ajmiles right, I see where the confusion might have occurred 16:20 celeron55 hmm yes 8) 16:20 celeron55 that was weird 16:22 ajmiles someone (I'm not sure if they're related to this project) left a comment on my blog (https://raytracedminecraft.wordpress.com/) pointing me in this direction 16:22 ajmiles not sure if "Akos" rings a bell 16:27 RealBadAngel kahrl, hmmmm can i merge it? 16:28 celeron55 never seen anyone called "Akos" 16:28 celeron55 anyway, what you're doing and how minetest's rendering is set up is.... ehm 16:28 celeron55 ...kind of far apart 16:28 ajmiles I don't doubt it 16:29 celeron55 feel free to look around and see if there's something you can do, though 16:33 ajmiles I'm more of a graphics guy, looks like you have it covered 16:33 celeron55 modernizing a system designed to efficiently and dynamically manage and render mixed voxel and custom geometry, built on a rather outdated 3D engine, is not really a small or an iterative task 16:34 celeron55 that's the issue 16:34 celeron55 it works but there are really no upgradeable parts 16:35 celeron55 "looks like you have it covered" :D i can't but laugh at this 16:36 celeron55 [X] Minetest has graphics 16:37 ajmiles assuming it's not more than a couple of years old, why is it built on an outdated 3D engine? 16:37 celeron55 well, MT is from 2010 16:37 celeron55 back then Ogre3D had an unsuitable license 16:38 celeron55 so that's some history for you 8) 16:38 est31 Elronnd, yes you can punch holes in NAT "firewalls" 16:39 est31 but not always and in all situations 16:39 est31 e.g. with double NAT 16:39 Elronnd Elronnd? 16:39 est31 ? 16:39 Elronnd I think you're talking to the wrong person, I haven't said *anything* since you joined 16:39 est31 I've seen the log 16:39 Elronnd Ah 16:39 Elronnd "ports system" freebsd ports system 16:39 Sokomine hm, rendering (voxel) worlds with a raytracing program? isn't that similar to what jordach does? though that's not real-time 16:40 est31 ah that ports system 16:40 RealBadAngel mt is not blender game 16:40 ajmiles it's similar to what Chunky does, but real-time. Not sure who jordach is though 16:41 RealBadAngel ajmiles, Jordach plays a lot with blender, he makes very nice renders in it 16:42 ajmiles right 16:45 Sokomine ...and RealBadAngel knows a lot about graphics and shaders and the like in minetest and develops that part further 16:46 est31 yeah so much that I can't make a real deep review of his PR :( 16:46 ajmiles draw distance (or lack thereof) was what always bothered me most about MC 16:46 est31 I'll try my best to not just point out style issues 16:47 jbb sokomine? 16:47 Sokomine hm, yes, i'm afraid that's a problem of mt as well. probably of all those games. you may stand right in front of a huge mountain and never notice it because that part of the map which contains the mountain hasn't been sent to you yet 16:48 est31 also, we should have a poll about how to document inside minetest.conf.example. 16:49 est31 first the description then the option or other way round 16:49 est31 (unrelated from the pr which) 16:49 est31 should be merged independently 16:51 ajmiles Sokomine, that's where ray tracing really comes into its own. draw distance is only really limited by memory and not by CPU/GPU powe 16:51 ajmiles you only pay the cost of the extra draw distance in the pixels that actually need to travel that far 16:52 celeron55 and you need a $1000 GPU 16:52 ajmiles not at all 16:53 ajmiles my card is about 3 years old and was only mid-end at the time 16:53 ajmiles you're not going to catch the Intel GPU crowd, but anything even vaguely recent from AMD or NVIDIA will be fine 16:53 celeron55 anyway, the issue with rendering far is that it all has to be dynamic and procedurally generated well enough to be actually worth playing in and looking at... and it all has to be run on old hardware too 16:54 RealBadAngel est31, there are no varying bools in glsl 16:54 celeron55 and you still need non-voxel things too 16:54 Sokomine hm, may still be too much? the game also runs on phones and tablets and old weak hardware. my own machine only has the integrated gpu of a celeron g1610 16:54 celeron55 can't get away with just having blocks only 16:54 est31 RealBadAngel, are there varying ints? 16:54 ajmiles the plan was always to rasterize non-voxel content the way I would now 16:55 ajmiles torches, animals, etc 16:55 RealBadAngel est31, propably yes 16:55 ajmiles can just do that after the voxel stuff has been rendered 16:55 RealBadAngel but since everything is float in there i prefer using floats 16:55 RealBadAngel and ints only for counters 16:55 est31 ints are usually better than floats for boolean like usage, but its only a nitpick 16:56 RealBadAngel also shaders behaves very strange on different gpus 16:56 RealBadAngel if i do have 0.0 value, check == 0.0 doesnt work all the time 16:57 RealBadAngel like it was having some discontinues 16:57 RealBadAngel so i have to check > 0.0 16:57 RealBadAngel its pretty weird i know 16:57 est31 yea thats the reason why floats are bad, no good == checks 16:58 est31 but didnt know that > is safe 16:58 ajmiles there's nothing inherently wrong with doing floating point equality tests so long as you understand how floats work 16:59 RealBadAngel ajmiles, way it work has nothing to do with that 0.0 sometimes is not equal 0.0 17:00 ajmiles 0.0 always equals 0.0 17:00 RealBadAngel thats a fucking bug in it nothing more 17:00 RealBadAngel no it doesnt 17:00 ajmiles one of your numbers probably wasn't 0.0 17:00 * est31 is rather too scared than having to debug an issue with float equality 17:01 RealBadAngel ajmiles, there are not many numbers. just a few variables that can be 0.0 or 1.0 17:01 RealBadAngel also reading colors is affected 17:02 RealBadAngel if you will sample texture for 0.0 sometimes you will get it 17:02 est31 ok RealBadAngel +1 to your PR if it works, the style issues should be fixed too. 17:02 RealBadAngel but sometimes dont 17:02 RealBadAngel generally shaders work differently on each setup 17:02 ajmiles sure it's not a lowp/mediump/highp issue? 17:03 RealBadAngel just see my code 17:03 RealBadAngel and replace >0.0 with ==0.0 17:03 ajmiles if you link it I'll take a look 17:03 RealBadAngel and you will see that shaders will have discontinues 17:03 RealBadAngel sometimes the check will simply not work 17:04 est31 >0.0 is the opposite of ==0.0 isnt it? 17:04 ajmiles > is more like the opposite of <= 17:04 est31 yes ofc 17:04 RealBadAngel enerate_heightmaps > 0.0 means logic 1 17:04 RealBadAngel +g 17:04 est31 only for values >= 0 now 17:05 VanessaE kinda surprised you can't pass a true bool there. 17:05 RealBadAngel theres no way to pass bools between vertex and pixel shader 17:05 est31 graphics cards are number crunchers 17:05 ajmiles I can't find enerate_heightmap, did you mean enumerate? 17:05 est31 crunch crunch crunch 17:06 RealBadAngel ajmiles, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/2783 17:06 RealBadAngel that code is my new PR 17:07 VanessaE and it doesn't properly apply... 17:07 est31 " This pull request can be automatically merged. " 17:08 est31 or you mean whitespace errors? 17:08 VanessaE est31: no, http://pastebin.com/uaiqTbG7 17:08 est31 w3ird 17:10 est31 yup I have it too 17:13 celeron55 sfan5, VanessaE: have you seen any spam so far since yesterday? 17:13 VanessaE celeron55: not yet, but I haven't had a chance to look 17:13 sfan5 nope 17:15 celeron55 we have gotten new registered users since then, but none of them has posted anything 17:15 celeron55 i hope there are no problems there; too lazy to check 8) 17:15 ajmiles RealBadAngel, are there particular cards/vendors you see that issue on? 17:16 VanessaE celeron55: well there's certainly plenty of new posts since yesterday anyway 17:16 est31 also, celeron55 can you give me "developer" status on the forums? 17:16 VanessaE don't see any spam 17:16 est31 not that it would matter 17:16 RealBadAngel ajmiles, i can see such behiaviour on mine. nvidia gti 550 17:19 ajmiles I'm more of a D3D guy where there's only one left of precision for floats (32 bit), but I suspect that's what it is 17:19 est31 gtg 4 now 17:19 est31 bye 17:19 ajmiles an issue of precision, perhaps a different precision mode in the VS vs the PS 17:21 ajmiles if it's a bool equivalent you're after then a lowp float that's set to 0 or 1 with a test of > or < 0.5 would seem most likely to be robust 17:21 celeron55 https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=181773#p181773 17:21 celeron55 i wish i would be able to solve this 17:22 sfan5 more .php file patching maybe? 17:22 VanessaE celeron55: I get the same error. 17:22 sfan5 (not saying it is a good idea) 17:23 celeron55 well everyone gets that error 17:23 celeron55 but i have no idea how to fix it 17:27 VanessaE celeron55: here's something to look into: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=12596&p=181673#p181673 17:28 VanessaE (that broken image links to the attachment below it, which renders only partly when clicked on) 17:29 VanessaE I assume it's just a failed upload, but figured I should point it out in case it isn't. 17:30 celeron55 oh that's easy 17:31 VanessaE delete the attachment? ;) 17:31 celeron55 ...mayabe 17:32 celeron55 i fixed this for www.minetest.net already, but it looks like i can't immediately find how i did that 17:33 celeron55 ...i think it was due to imagemagick not getting used 17:35 celeron55 wait, why would phpbb even edit an attached image at all? 17:35 VanessaE maybe to produce a thumbnail? 17:35 VanessaE (not that we ever actually *see* such things on this forum) 17:36 celeron55 why would the image break from that 17:36 celeron55 this makes no sense at all 17:37 VanessaE *shrug* why would a shader variable set to 0.0 not equal exactly 0.0? :) 17:37 celeron55 maybe the user uploaded a broken image? 17:37 VanessaE that's what I figured, since only part of it actually renders when clicked, but since you've been having other problems, idk for sure 17:37 sfan5 now the attachment is gone 17:38 sfan5 o.O 17:38 VanessaE ? wasn't me 17:38 celeron55 now i cleared phpbb's cache and the image is nowhere to be seen 17:39 sfan5 uhhhh 17:39 sfan5 wat 17:40 celeron55 at least zip attachments seem to still work, eg. here https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=9917 17:41 VanessaE image attachments here work: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=156&start=3425#p181413 but one of the two here does not: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=156&start=3425#p181316 (half-broken image, like the post I initially mentioned) 17:41 VanessaE this post has another example of one good, one broken: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=156&start=3400#p180760 17:42 sfan5 both attachments are broken at https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=156&start=3425#p181316 for me 17:42 VanessaE I know for a fact that those two on p181316 were good before, so it isn't a "partially uploaded" problem. 17:44 neoascetic Hi all. Why there is dev-0.5 branch in the repo? It will be same as master until stable 0.5 release, am I right 17:44 neoascetic ? 17:44 VanessaE neoascetic: dead branch 17:44 VanessaE ignore it 17:45 neoascetic Ohhh, why not delete it then? :D 17:53 Sokomine hm, i get a partial image (only about the topmost quater is shown) at https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=12464& 17:57 Taoki hmmmm: I might have discussed this before, long ago. But any chance that you could add a builtin function to read the size of a schematic? I need one for my (apparently now functioning properly) town generation mod... and although I have one which still works, it relies on some binary hacking Lua-side which I don't believe I can maintain in case anything changes (and which might be slow). 17:59 Sokomine use my handle_schematics mod. it reads schematics and returns information about them 18:22 Sokomine hm. i'm having trouble with downloading a binary attachment (.zip file) from the forum now as well 18:28 est31 further opinions about 0.4.13 release date in 2 months? 18:31 VanessaE est31: fine by me, depends how long the feature freeze is though 18:33 est31 VanessaE, as an ex-victim of a feature freeze, I recommend that we use a -dev or similar branch to continue feature development, perhaps the moment the freeze starts, perhaps after 18:33 est31 with after I mean that branching is done at the intended release date when it has to be moved because blocker bugs are found 18:35 VanessaE well, I'm okay with most any development model, but a hard feature freeze at least encourages people to ONLY fix bugs 18:35 VanessaE whereas a separate dev branch doesn't come with that incentive. 18:36 est31 thats true too 19:29 RealBadAngel https://github.com/RealBadAngel/minetest/commit/936cfe1bcf86d2d582ad2138e6ed4cd301c52a15.patch 19:30 RealBadAngel ok, we have solved some AMD related issues 19:30 RealBadAngel going to push it soon 20:36 est31 RealBadAngel, you want to push 2783 now or not? 20:36 est31 because its at master branch 20:36 est31 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commits/master 20:36 VanessaE I think he already did, but not from the PR 20:37 est31 I wonder because before it was that way too, then he removed it again 20:37 est31 http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest/2015-06-14#i_4287632 20:38 est31 http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest/2015-06-14#i_4287584 20:40 est31 also I wonder why he didnt fix the whitespace issues. I mean its no big deal they are in there, but I still wonder... 20:40 est31 so that together with him not closing the PR looks strange 20:40 VanessaE the whitespace problems were keeping it from going in 20:40 VanessaE plus there are still some corner-case performance issues to sort out 20:41 est31 you say so? 20:41 est31 could have said earlier :) 20:41 VanessaE didn't have a chance :) 20:41 VanessaE RBA and I were discussing in /msg about it. 20:41 est31 aha 20:42 VanessaE short version: it works fine, but aniso+mipmap has some conflict if bumpmapping is enabled, causes a huge performance drop then 20:42 VanessaE and apparently only on AMD devices. 20:43 est31 so three options to go now: 1. leave it as it is, with all the whitespace errors (I only checked the style whitespace errors, not the trailing ones) 20:43 est31 2. hard reset to "Add UTF and other utility unit tests" 20:43 est31 3. extra revert commit 20:44 VanessaE 4. leave it as-is and do a whitespace cleanup as an additional commit 20:44 est31 when was the last time you spoke to RBA? 20:44 VanessaE about an hour ago. 20:44 est31 perhaps he's still around then 20:44 VanessaE he's in bed now 20:44 est31 oh 20:44 VanessaE been there since an hour ago 20:48 est31 so this is no bug where the build is totally fucked up 20:48 VanessaE nah 20:48 est31 neither its one where you cant log in 20:48 VanessaE it built fine for me once he just outright pushed it 20:48 est31 I guess it can stay in there until RBA fixes it :) 20:48 VanessaE yeah :)_ 20:49 VanessaE however I'd suggest an automated whitespace fixup 20:49 VanessaE he was having major troubles with it 20:49 est31 what I wonder is why the commit message isn't "Improve displacement mapping" 20:49 est31 perhaps he pushed an older revision 20:50 VanessaE well he had to make a couple of AMD-specific tweaks to it 20:50 VanessaE and he did reset + push -f when it didn't work right the first time (it was in the 10 min window), but idk why the message is different 20:51 Wuzzy Any thoughts about this?: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1439 20:51 est31 yes Wuzzy seen it 20:52 VanessaE that would be useful 20:52 Wuzzy it will see its 1st birthday in a few weeks, lol 20:52 VanessaE but the standard keys for that are Q and E 20:52 VanessaE (in other games) 20:52 Wuzzy for what? 20:52 est31 ah sorry that isnt the new error message PR 20:52 Wuzzy hotbar stuff? 20:52 Wuzzy too bad that E is already occupied in Minetset 20:52 VanessaE yeah 20:53 VanessaE in games like quake/OA, Q and E are very handy to switch weapons 20:53 Wuzzy In CounterStrike, Q switches to previously seleted thing 20:53 Wuzzy anyways 20:54 Wuzzy I don't care much about the default bindings, so you could easily convince me to change my proposed defaults 20:54 Wuzzy unless its some arcane key combination of course XD 20:54 Wuzzy but if you want Q and E, then Use needs to go ... where? 20:54 VanessaE well I'd just go and change then myself anyway :) 20:54 est31 hrmm diff <(git show 43fcfbfe05578d747) <(git show 936cfe1bcf86d) 20:54 VanessaE "use" could be moved to 'f' 20:55 est31 this is quite empty 20:55 VanessaE I think that key is unused right now isn't it/ 20:55 est31 so I'll mark it as merged 20:55 VanessaE est31: yeah 20:55 VanessaE just do a whitespace cleanup I think. 20:59 est31 its great the PR got merged 20:59 est31 now we can get minimap in future :) 21:00 Wuzzy ?!?!?! 21:00 Wuzzy minimap??? 21:00 Wuzzy wow 21:00 VanessaE yep, that's next 21:00 est31 yes :) 21:00 Wuzzy actually part of core? I am surprised 21:00 est31 yes :) 21:00 VanessaE yep 21:01 VanessaE part of core and super-fast 21:01 VanessaE client-side 21:01 Wuzzy screenshot, maybe? 21:01 Wuzzy :) 21:01 est31 bin extra thread 21:01 est31 -b 21:01 VanessaE http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/screenshots/random/Screenshot%20-%2005202015%20-%2003%3a53%3a03%20PM.png 21:01 est31 client/shaders/nodes_shader/opengl_vertex.glsl:114: trailing whitespace. 21:01 est31 + eyeVec = (gl_ModelViewMatrix * gl_Vertex).xyz;^M 21:01 est31 dammit 21:01 VanessaE (that's just the upper corner of the screen) 21:01 est31 windows line ends 21:01 VanessaE http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/screenshots/random/Screenshot%20-%2005262015%20-%2002%3a06%3a34%20PM.png 21:01 VanessaE another view 21:02 VanessaE and this is without the visual enhancements he's done since then 21:02 Wuzzy cool shit :-) 21:02 Wuzzy thanks to whoever did this :) 21:02 VanessaE RBA. 21:03 Wuzzy maybe I need to check GitHub more often XD 21:03 est31 no PR yet 21:03 est31 it was only in chat and a forum site 21:04 VanessaE https://github.com/RealBadAngel/minetest/tree/minimap2 21:04 VanessaE it's way behind master though 21:04 Wuzzy oh, its not official yet 21:04 VanessaE (there's a 'minimap' and a 'minimap3' also) 21:06 VanessaE he needs that parallax code that just went in, in order to make the minimap work properly 21:07 VanessaE ("properly" as he defines it that is ;) ) 21:12 celeron55 VanessaE, Sokomine, sfan5: report problems here: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=12611 21:12 est31 so here it is https://github.com/est31/minetest/commit/238eae0b41f2864759012d55c3fab0c785067e13 21:12 celeron55 i can't really keep track of these on this channel 21:12 est31 pushing in 5 minutes if nobody minds 21:12 est31 did a git diff HEAD~2 HEAD --check 21:12 est31 and was empty 21:12 VanessaE celeron55: ok, no prob 21:12 est31 OTOH git diff HEAD~2 HEAD~1 --check 21:12 est31 that one is quite long 21:13 VanessaE est31: this by you is "long"? :P 21:13 est31 ? 21:13 VanessaE oh the other one derp 21:13 VanessaE anyway a quick glance it looks good 21:14 est31 try running git diff 43fcfb^ 43fcfb --check 21:14 est31 I've found a command on how to do such a thing with a rebase 21:14 est31 so then I did a rebase, and saved the diff between the two commits into a file 21:14 est31 then I applied that diff 21:14 est31 and commited it :=) 21:15 VanessaE nah, that's not so bad :P 21:15 VanessaE interesting that it throws whitespace errors just because of windows EOL differences. 21:16 est31 yea 21:16 est31 git has some magic in the underground 21:16 est31 but I'm not sure how it works 21:20 Sokomine my git complains that "error: Your local changes to the following files would be overwritten by merge:". which is quite astonishing, as i'm not aware of any changes i might have done to src/shader.cpp does anyone know a way around that? i'm surprised that such a message shows up as well. i thought i had a clean version 21:21 celeron55 i now have a working system for creating such backups of the forum that contain everything except private information, and i plan to start publishing these in an automated way 21:21 celeron55 could some people (that i might trust) maybe take it and check through for what they can find? 21:23 est31 Sokomine, whats your git status? 21:24 Sokomine est31: http://www.pastebin.com/4rAgDcKJ 21:26 Sokomine i'm not aware of any changes i might have applied to that file. it seems highly unlikely 21:26 est31 do a git diff to find out :) 21:26 est31 or git diff src/shader.cpp 21:27 Sokomine yes, a git diff seems obvious, but: it doesn't show any changes. which makes the whole affair even more mysterious 21:28 est31 no idea then 21:28 * est31 suggests #git 21:28 est31 I had issues similar to this too 21:29 Sokomine ah. well...maybe. i had a similar problem earlier... 21:38 celeron55 VanessaE: okay now the attachments work properly; it was a permission issue with a weird nginx temporary directory where it buffers or caches replies from fastcgi (just writing it here so that i can figure out a permanent fix if it occurs again) 21:42 VanessaE celeron55: ok. now for an acid test..... 21:43 VanessaE acid test failed :) 21:43 VanessaE https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=7422 -> edit (but don't change anything) -> preview -> http://pastebin.com/b0svDMTE 21:44 VanessaE (figured I'd mention it now while you're messing with perms) 21:44 VanessaE happens on a lot of Dan's old posts for some reason. 21:45 est31 about #2785 can I merge that? 21:45 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2785 -- Remove reference to deprecated privilege by CraigyDavi 21:46 kilbith don't need to ask for such thing 21:47 est31 kilbith, I dont know when the last usage of that priv was 21:47 kilbith maybe VE knows 21:47 est31 and you know that xkcd with the "fixed 100% CPU bug" 21:48 VanessaE I've never seen that priv in use before 21:48 VanessaE besides, if a mod needs it, it can define it on its own 21:52 Taoki RealBadAngel: Is the new paxallax mapping in master now? Or will it be tonight? Didn't see more GIT logs about that fix 21:52 est31 *shrug* gonna merge it then, I guess nobody will complain that their admins can now revoke interact_extra without the privs privilege 21:52 VanessaE it is in. 21:52 Taoki Just curious :P 21:53 Taoki Oh, awesome 21:53 VanessaE it needs tweaks and tuning still 21:53 VanessaE but it works. 22:05 Sokomine i was given the advice in #git to hard-reset my copy via "git reset --hard origin/master", and that did work out. i had no local changes anyway 22:09 est31 #2405 is another trivial PR 22:09 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2405 -- Ignore punches with no damage in the actionstream by SmallJoker 22:09 est31 gonna merge it 22:13 VanessaE est31: as long as you're in the damage/no-damage code, ..... 22:16 est31 heh 22:17 VanessaE ;) 23:32 Taoki RealBadAngel: Got latest master, confirming the new parallax effect works for me (AMD / MESA). Thank you... it looks so sweet and realistic! 23:36 Taoki Strange however... it only seems to work sometimes o.o I switched back to the window as I wrote the above line, and the effect was gone... I was getting the old parallax. Also when I quit to the main menu than back in. So something might be causing it to switch between the two randomly.