Time Nick Message 00:41 hmmmm VanessaE: Can you cherry-pick this? https://github.com/kwolekr/minetest/commit/57cb93857ae80d10122b178fbbd2ba1a226aafdb 03:17 VanessaE hmmmm: applied over clean HEAD (11372ac6 at the moment), but it does not help. In fact both the place-to-autoroute delay and the crafting grid glitchness are WAY worse now 03:17 hmmmm oh wow! 03:17 hmmmm okay a couple things: 03:17 VanessaE I mean several-seconds-to-a-response worse 03:17 hmmmm 1). I don't experience this at all 03:17 hmmmm 2). that reverted the suspected bad commit in terms of functionality 03:18 VanessaE weird 03:18 hmmmm VanessaE, try minetest at 1b2f644 and tell me if it works there too 03:18 VanessaE ok 03:19 hmmmm how did you arrive at 1b2f644 anyway? did you just see that it affected crafting and figured it could be it, so you reverted to the commit before that and voila the problem is fixed? 03:19 VanessaE I went with est31's original bisect result, rolled back to the same point, got similar results 03:19 hmmmm ahh i forgot est31 worked on this as well 03:21 Tablet_One Sorry, trying to fix that >.< 03:21 VanessaE placement and crafting lag are about as bad at 1b2f644 as they were at HEAD. 03:22 VanessaE (HEAD without your "soft" patch I mean) 03:23 VanessaE which is to say, up to about 1 second delay in the place-to-autoroute instance, and just the just-annoying-enough-to-infuriate glitchiness in the crafting. :) 03:23 hmmmm and the commit just before 1b2f644 has no such lag?? 03:23 VanessaE let me try again just to be sure. 03:28 VanessaE oh yeah, 038d3a31d is WAY better. no perceptible crafting glitch (if it's there, I can't see it at all), and placement-to-autoroute delay is again small and variable, but tolerable., 03:28 VanessaE you know, I distinctly recall sapier mentioning during his first big re-origanization during the 0.4.9 cycle, how this network-related behavior always seemed to change from one person's machine to another, even when it should be perfectly predictable. 03:28 VanessaE maybe this is more of the same? 03:33 VanessaE greetz, Zeno 03:33 hmmmm i have no idea 03:34 hmmmm the only thing I can think of is that the regression started with 1b2f644 and then something else was added in later that also causes the same regression 03:34 hmmmm and its effects were masked by the earlier one 03:35 hmmmm so reverting 1b2f644 might be one of several reverts needed to actually fix this 03:35 hmmmm I think it would be much more efficient at this point to just find out what the cause of the regression is directly 03:42 Zeno` howdy 03:58 hmmmm i really wish nerzhul would look into this 03:58 hmmmm we can prove it was at least one of his commits involved 04:04 VanessaE hmmmm: that's more or less what I was thinking 04:05 VanessaE but this is a mish-mosh of commits and changes to dig through, let alone revert 04:21 Zeno` there is a problem... 04:21 Zeno` packets that are sending strings are getting strings that seem to be not nul-terminated 04:22 hmmmm that's like a critical bug and needs to be fixed asap 04:23 Zeno` e.g. 14:11:47: VERBOSE[ServerThread]: TOSERVER_INVENTORY_ACTION: data=Move 999 current_player main 3 current_player craft 7 is followed by a whole bunch of illegal characters 04:23 Zeno` every time 04:24 VanessaE Zeno`: sounds like probably cause for that serialization issue that was just posted, with the log full of gibberish 04:24 VanessaE probable* 04:24 Zeno` I don't understand oldForgePacket() 04:24 Zeno` and u8* datas = getU8Ptr(0); 04:24 Zeno` something seems dodgy but I can't work out what 04:28 Zeno` seems like a whole lot of effort just to get rid of some memory allocation requirements for new packets 04:29 Zeno` I don't understand why the packet wasn't simply copied right at the beginning in .Send() 04:29 hmmmm oldForgePacket is a kludge so that nerzhul's new network interface works with the older low-level code 04:29 hmmmm lol Old Forge is the name of a town nearby where I live 04:29 hmmmm so whenever I see that function I think of pizza 04:30 Zeno` yeah, but... why not copy the packet in void Client::Send(NetworkPacket* pkt) .... errrr, nvm 04:30 * VanessaE sighs and pines for the days when sapier was here to work on networking code... 04:30 Zeno` Pizza! 04:30 Zeno` let's all order pizza from Old Forge 04:31 hmmmm I think that it was more or less the fact that an inexperienced newcomer with a track record of shoddy code comes around and rewrites a *major* subsystem of the project 04:31 Zeno` I don't like that function at all 04:31 Zeno` I suspect it's the source of many of these strange bugs 04:31 hmmmm it triggered my spidey senses 04:31 hmmmm but because I didn't substantiate anything (was relying on others' who reported the bugs in the first place) I was made out to seem like the bad guy 04:35 hmmmm lol, m_datasize += msgsize * sizeof(char) 04:35 hmmmm for those cases where sizeof(char) might not be 1 04:36 VanessaE there are platforms where a char isn't exactly 1 byte? O_o 04:37 hmmmm yes, but i was being sarcastic 04:37 VanessaE oh heh ok 04:37 hmmmm the C and C++ standards say that sizeof(char) will ALWAYS be 1, regardless 04:37 VanessaE I misread that anyway :) 04:37 hmmmm but a char might be more than one "octet" (for example, on many TI DSPs they're 32 bits) 04:38 hmmmm CHAR_BIT would be set appropriately 04:38 VanessaE interesting. didn't know that 04:38 hmmmm char is always the smallest unit of memory that can be addressed by the platform 04:39 Zeno` memset(&sb[2], 0, m_datasize); segfaults? 04:39 hmmmm it does?? 04:39 Zeno` yeah 04:39 hmmmm where is that 04:39 Zeno` why would it do that if a can memcpy 04:39 Zeno` I added it in oldForgePacket 04:40 hmmmm hmm 04:40 Zeno` ignore me for a moment... looking more 04:40 hmmmm u8* datass 04:40 hmmmm dat ass. 04:44 hmmmm huh, Zeno`, the old network serialization didn't have a null terminator on the strings either 04:44 hmmmm don't you think that'd be kind of weird if it did? 04:44 Zeno` yes, but I don't remember all these messages in debug.txt that were not nul-terminated 04:45 Zeno` I'm sure i would have noticed because Kate switches to Read Only with a big yellow message at the top when there are invalid characters 04:46 Zeno` I'm not sure if I would find it weird if the packets had nul-terminated strings 04:47 Zeno` maybe I've just never used verbose when checking crafting before :) 04:48 hmmmm well if they already have a length prefix, a null terminator would be verbose and useless 04:48 hmmmm maybe you're looking at a packet that had two strings in a row, and you mistook the high byte of the next string as being a null terminator to the previous one? 04:49 hmmmm https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/stable-0.4/src/util/serialize.cpp#L31 04:54 Zeno` maybe. I really don't want to be looking at this code but it's annoying me heh 04:54 Zeno` and I can't stop myself :( 04:55 Zeno` VanessaE, you still there? 04:55 VanessaE yeah 04:56 Zeno` reverting 133128ab8 makes the inventory lag less noticeable for me 04:56 Zeno` oops sorry 04:56 Zeno` that's my hash id :) 04:56 VanessaE heh 04:57 Zeno` 2f0107f4 04:58 VanessaE I'll try it 04:58 Zeno` it's still there, but seems to be a lot better than before 04:58 Zeno` ok, thanks 04:59 Zeno` gawd, now it's back 05:01 VanessaE aw hell no. 05:02 VanessaE 'nuff said? :) 05:04 Zeno` I'm not looking at this anymore 05:08 Zeno` too annoying :) 05:16 Zeno` there is no problem in e6ad2ace1072160adcf34a254add4447f935268c 05:16 Zeno` maybe just use that 05:16 Zeno` :D 05:58 Zeno` I've added high priority and blocker to #2544 because it seriously affects playability 05:58 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2544 -- Moving items into crafing grid and back got glitchy (regression) on dreambuilder 05:59 Zeno` should probably remove that "on dreambuilder" as well VanessaE 05:59 Zeno` I can notice the regression using minetest_game if I run it under valgrind 05:59 VanessaE tell est31 :) 05:59 Zeno` oh 05:59 Zeno` lol 05:59 Zeno` I'll just change it myself :) 05:59 VanessaE ok 07:09 Zeno` hmm reverting 2 commits makes the issue disappear 07:09 Zeno` hmmmm 07:10 hmmmm which ones? 07:10 hmmmm and how did you find them 07:10 Zeno` https://github.com/Zeno-/minetest/commits/master 07:10 hmmmm heh 07:10 Zeno` There are some things I didn't need to revert... I might add them back one by one 07:10 hmmmm there's no way getPeerId() is that slow 07:11 Zeno` you know how much I profiled... 07:11 Zeno` it was never on the radar 07:12 hmmmm i don't get it 07:12 hmmmm how does that cause the regression 07:12 Zeno` nfi... that's why I might add them back one by one 07:12 Zeno` but try it. regression gone 07:13 Zeno` actually I don't want to work on this, so I'll let nazghul add them back one by one 07:13 Zeno` heh 07:13 hmmmm how did you find it so quickly? 07:13 hmmmm i didn't bother working on it actually 07:13 Zeno` well I reverted the commit like you did 07:13 hmmmm i'm working on the opaque handle thing 07:13 Zeno` but it didn't make a difference (as you know) 07:14 Zeno` then i figured that many of the conflicts were caused by that other commit so I decided to start again and revert that other one first 07:14 hmmmm didn't realize that 07:15 hmmmm i just saw "ugh holy shit conflicts" and i just undid what 1b7 did in functionality 07:17 Zeno` well that's what I did at first as well :) 07:18 Zeno` the whole thing would have been easier to revert if those two commits were together 07:18 hmmmm nerzhul does this thing i think on purpose 07:18 hmmmm and to inflate the number of commits 07:21 hmmmm i think the workflow involved with making a PR is better overall since it encourages you to condense all of those kinds of commits down into a single commit, and focus more quality on it 07:22 Zeno` well, yeah. I've reverted stuff that didn't need to be reverted 07:23 Zeno` had to use the hammer :/ 07:23 Zeno` but they can be added back 07:24 Zeno` now i've made a mess of my master 07:28 hmmmm hmm 07:29 Zeno` all fixed 07:29 Zeno` I like git 07:32 hmmmm damn 07:32 * Zeno` waves... outside time 07:32 Zeno` damn? 07:32 hmmmm i just noticed a very subtle bug in my code that had been there for about a half a year 07:33 Zeno` :D 07:33 Zeno` sleep well 07:33 hmmmm night 07:41 VanessaE confirmed zeno's "double revert" to fix the problem. 07:41 VanessaE dammit, just missed. 07:53 * VanessaE wanders off to bed 11:57 Zeno` Any further comments on #2540? 11:57 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2540 -- Slow down the "key repeat" touch speed some Android controls by Zeno- 13:01 Zeno` slow night 14:40 Megaf Hi everyone 14:41 Megaf I'm trying to find the file we have to edit to change this #2539 14:41 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2539 -- Server console/log timestamp format 14:45 Megaf here? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/log.cpp 14:47 Megaf Found it https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/log.cpp#L127 15:04 leat Megaf: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/gettime.h#L58 15:09 Megaf Zeno`: cool 15:09 Megaf #2549 15:09 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2549 -- Update timestamp to include date by Zeno- 15:11 Zeno` HUGE change 15:11 Megaf Imense 15:11 Megaf so much code added, I'm afraid it will crash the whole network stack Zeno` 15:11 Zeno` it might 15:14 Zeno` might even crash the internet 15:15 Megaf I can foresee some backbones going offline with this change 15:16 Megaf Internet is already slower here since I added this changes to my server! 15:16 Megaf Even the clock is moving slower 15:17 Megaf Zeno`: It would be funny if that actually had side affects on the network stack 15:17 Zeno` I suppose I could make it thread safe but I'm not sure it's worth it 15:18 Megaf safe enough already 15:21 Zeno` @&$*@ though 15:21 Zeno` that's returning a pointer to a local variable (I don't care if it's inline) 15:22 Zeno` that's bad 15:25 Megaf I dont really get why this time thing is defined in two different ways in two different places for the same thing 15:25 Megaf https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/log.cpp#L127 15:25 Megaf https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/gettime.h#L58 15:26 Zeno` it's not 15:26 Zeno` your original link is calling the function referenced in your second 15:29 Megaf I see 15:33 Zeno` oh it's returning std::string already 15:33 Zeno` phew 15:43 VanessaE Megaf: how about also fixing the "timestamp" on screenshots while you're at it :) 15:49 Megaf ^ Zeno` 15:49 Megaf :P 15:51 Zeno` what timestamp on screenshot? 15:51 Zeno` s 15:52 VanessaE the random number minetest adds to the screenshot filename 15:52 VanessaE makes it pretty well impossible to sort by name 15:52 VanessaE (and in a web view, by date either) 15:53 Zeno` it's not completely random 15:53 VanessaE it should be something more sane like, screenshot-20150324-115310.png 15:53 VanessaE or something 16:09 Zeno` I didn't even know you could take a screenshot 16:09 Zeno` heh 16:11 VanessaE I mostly quit using the built-in because of the weird numbering :P 16:21 Zeno` ok I will merge #2529 I think 16:21 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2529 -- Protect Player::hud from concurrent modifications by nerzhul 16:21 Zeno` it's pretty trivial 16:21 Zeno` agree, hmmmm? 16:22 hmmmm that was already added 16:22 Zeno` huh 16:22 Zeno` when? 16:22 hmmmm sometime yesterday 16:22 hmmmm i was there when it happened 16:22 Zeno` doh 16:22 hmmmm 0e5e497 and 0ae75f2 16:23 Zeno` sorry, wrong number... #2549 16:23 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2549 -- Update timestamp to include date by Zeno- 16:24 Zeno` kind of crazy even asking :/ But... 16:25 Zeno` I should push my latest update which adds a comment after the array size heh 16:25 hmmmm yeah, fine 16:26 Zeno` I know it's a big change so thanks for reviewing 16:33 twoelk I love that suggestion to add a name based on the date to the screenshot. Would be nice if the seperator in the debug.txt would also sport a date 16:36 Megaf I will be testing the new timestamps in a couple of minutes 16:36 Zeno` I'll do it now then 16:38 Zeno` with the date in the timestamps the date in the separator is probably not essential 16:40 twoelk it simply makes the seperator mor meaningfull when quickly eyeballing the file 16:43 Zeno` VanessaE, twoelk, #2520 16:43 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2520 -- Android: noclip, fly, etc. buttons are way too sensitive 16:43 VanessaE ? 16:43 Zeno` I cannot type :/ 16:43 Zeno` lol 16:43 Zeno` #2550 16:43 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2550 -- Change filename of screenshots to something more human readable by Zeno- 16:44 Zeno` I leave you with it 16:44 VanessaE wow, that took a fair bit of code. 16:44 Zeno` not really 16:44 * Zeno` wanders off in a daze 16:46 Zeno` so it'll be screenshot_20150324_024600.png 16:46 twoelk VanessaE: :) that was indeed the suggestion that I was refering to 16:46 hmmmm ugh this ruins my workflow 16:46 hmmmm i need a new spacebar heater now 16:46 Zeno` lol 16:47 VanessaE https://xkcd.com/1172/ 16:47 VanessaE damn it, ninja'd 16:48 Megaf 2015-03-24 12:47:43: ACTION[ServerThread]: Announcing to servers.minetest.net 16:48 Megaf Looks better 16:50 Megaf VanessaE: we can relate to that 16:53 Zeno` ok, I know it's a big change and hmmmm needs a new spacebar heater but I think I'll just merge it 16:53 Zeno` ok? :) 16:54 hmmmm just add an if (g_settings->getBool("spacebar_heating")) 16:54 * Zeno` adds and merges 16:54 Zeno` lol 16:56 Zeno` damn. I forgot to add the check in config 16:56 Megaf lol 16:59 VanessaE haha 17:00 twoelk be carefull with the spacebar heater, nyankittens may fry 17:09 Megaf I found a way to reduce the game/source files size in 10.6 MB 17:10 Megaf https://github.com/Megaf/minetest/commit/d576df9463f1add559fd7743a16fcca2a7b9c38b 17:10 Megaf I will test that and see if there's any difference 17:12 sfan5 are you sure those files are not used? 17:13 Megaf Not at all. I'm compiling that branch now, and then I will do code changes if needed 17:14 sfan5 i think those code changed would include removing the font stuff by sapier 17:14 Megaf Yep 17:18 VanessaE er, sapier added those font files for the sake of differing sizes when not using freetype 17:19 VanessaE however, bitmap fonts are all but obsolete now in minetest, aren't they? 17:21 VanessaE bbl 17:21 hmmmm if ENABLE_FREETYPE=0, they sure are 17:22 Calinou as said before, we should remove bitmap fonts entirely 17:22 hmmmm if you want to make freetype a mandatory dependency, fix freetype detection first 17:22 Calinou what's wrong with FreeType detection right now? 17:22 hmmmm it simply does not work 17:22 hmmmm it says i don't have freetype installed on my machine when in fact i do 17:23 Megaf removing the files do indeed break the game 17:24 hmmmm i don't think we need to fix what isn't broken 17:24 hmmmm minetest has enough brokenness at the moment 17:26 Megaf Ok, and why arent we using only freetype? 17:26 Megaf Why are we supporting other stuff? 17:28 Megaf hmmmm: cant freetype lib be bundled with Minetest? 17:29 hmmmm sure 17:29 Calinou don't bundle libraries when it isn't needed, Megaf 17:29 hmmmm how do we decide if a lib should be bundled though 17:29 hmmmm it seems sort of random right now 17:30 paramat hmmmm, #2533 is tested and ready to go once checks finish, please could you check the code? 17:30 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2533 -- lua_api/l_mapgen: generate_ores/decorations: make p1, p2 optional by paramat 17:31 hmmmm looks good 17:31 paramat cool, thanks 17:33 hmmmm i don't like the name GenElement 17:33 Megaf Calinou: interesting, I got a Segmentation Fault removing those files 17:33 Megaf 2015-03-24 17:23:09: ERROR[main]: Using irrlicht default font. 17:33 Megaf Segmentation fault 17:33 hmmmm can somebody come up with a better name for those things that are ores, biomes, decorations, and schematics? 17:33 hmmmm Megaf: sounds like a bug that needs fixing =] 17:34 Megaf hmmmm: well, thats a bug introduced by me on a branch of my fork, how should I report that in Minetest? 17:34 hmmmm just say that removing those files introduces a segfault and to reproduce, delete the files 17:36 Megaf yep, well, that happened with FREETYPE=0, I will try with =1 17:37 hmmmm well it shouldn't happen with =1, since they'd be ignored anyway 17:38 Megaf Let's see 17:38 Megaf Does windows comes with Freetype? 17:39 Megaf Anyway, Freetype source coude, compressed is 1.4 MB, much smaller than the fonts files that I removed 17:39 Megaf code* 17:42 Calinou Windows doesn't come with it 17:42 Calinou that's why its font rendering is ugly 17:43 Zeno` Windows 17:43 Zeno` oops 17:43 Zeno` Windows' font rendering is ugly? 17:43 Calinou exactly 17:43 Calinou MacType fixes that partially 17:45 Megaf Ok, Minetest runs nice when FREETYPE=1 17:46 Zeno` freetype on Linux in fugly. If not for the infinality patches I'd probably start throwing chairs around. There are two major reasons why Werner is not adding the infinality patches to freetype; the most enlightening one is that he believes they reduce performance 17:48 Zeno` So at least he's very conscious of keeping the lib as fast and small as possible :) 17:49 Zeno` But, it has its flaws 17:49 rubenwardy Kenney is offering to pay a developer for adding features to the engine he wants: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=173859#p173859 17:50 hmmmm why doesn't he just list the features he wants 17:51 hmmmm developers *will* add them on their own with no incentive if they're good features 17:52 Zeno` well if it's interesting enough 17:53 rubenwardy His public to do list is here: https://trello.com/b/EOPoI8Au/voxus-to-do 17:53 rubenwardy New UI API/engine 17:53 rubenwardy Custom keystrokes 17:53 rubenwardy Random textures 17:53 rubenwardy Advanced connected textures 17:53 rubenwardy Change sound pitch 17:53 hmmmm sounds like everything i want 17:53 Zeno` same 17:54 Zeno` New UI is a big task though 17:54 hmmmm i don't think so - 17:54 hmmmm it depends on how you go about it 17:54 Zeno` possibly 17:54 hmmmm my implementation is going to be super lightweight 17:54 Zeno` mine is going to be lightweight AND attractive 17:54 hmmmm oh okay :) 17:54 rubenwardy Lol 17:54 hmmmm we should collaborate 17:54 hmmmm i'm serious 17:54 Zeno` me too 17:54 rubenwardy > Open source 17:55 rubenwardy > Collaboration 17:55 rubenwardy XD 17:55 Zeno` I think I mentioned a while ago I was interested in that aspect of the engine 17:55 hmmmm yeah 17:55 rubenwardy Joking, of course. A new UI system would be very good to see. 17:55 Megaf folks, #2551 17:55 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2551 -- Minetest segfaults on start if png and xml fonts files are removed from the fonts folder. 17:55 hmmmm the UI system would be probably the first thing to get added with client side modding 17:55 hmmmm but the RPC mechanism needs to come first 17:55 Megaf it should crash, not segfault 17:56 hmmmm formspec compatibility can be done basically with a set of lua functions that abstract it away with client side mods and RPC 17:56 rubenwardy remote procedure call? 17:56 hmmmm yeah 17:56 hmmmm it's really goddamn simple too 17:56 hmmmm we already have lua serialization 17:57 Zeno` we should chat tomorrow, hmmmm. Right now it's 4AM and I need to kinda sleep 17:57 hmmmm the work consists of adding a new packet and some script mangement code 17:57 hmmmm transferring serialized lua 17:57 hmmmm okay night Zeno` 17:57 Zeno` O/ 17:57 hmmmm lol, it's 2 PM for me 17:57 * Zeno` idles 'til he disconnects 17:57 hmmmm i shouldn't start too many things at once 17:58 rubenwardy We need some way of talking about technical details that is time independant. Github issues just isn't being used for this. 17:58 hmmmm finishing up schematics to make them what they should've been all along is top priority 17:58 hmmmm yeah, forum would be nice in theory but it's too noisy 18:00 rubenwardy A seperate developer forum which is semi-hidden (linked to from dev.minetest.net, github issues and IRC). Problem is that you'll still get those kind of talkative users who won't be able to help with the technical side. 18:00 rubenwardy Like that user on Github Issues 18:00 hmmmm they feel like they need to give a comment on everything 8) 18:01 rubenwardy Yeah. I wish I could be more helpful, I just don't have the know how 18:03 rubenwardy If time and work was no problem, we'd probably end up clearing the repo and rewriting most of the project. Same ethos, more consistent code. But that's infeasible of course. 18:05 paramat okay now pushing 2533 18:05 rubenwardy #2533 18:05 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2533 -- lua_api/l_mapgen: generate_ores/decorations: make p1, p2 optional by paramat 18:10 neoascetic If mapgen v7 is supposed to be extendable by nodes only, why there are flowers, and sand, and stone? 18:10 hmmmm ??? 18:10 paramat lol 18:11 paramat i'll explain in a moment 18:12 neoascetic Ok, I am waiting 18:12 rubenwardy sand, flowers and stones are nodes? 18:12 neoascetic yes 18:13 neoascetic not sure for flowers though :) 18:14 hmmmm i don't really understand the question being asked 18:14 rubenwardy Neither do I :P 18:14 neoascetic Where trees (which also nodes) and other stuff? 18:15 rubenwardy Trees etc are decorations? 18:15 paramat the default v7 biomes can be removed and replaced by your own biomes defined by the biome API 18:15 neoascetic Why flowers are better than everything else? 18:15 neoascetic default v7 biomes are empty 18:15 paramat the default biomes are unfinished 18:15 neoascetic I mean, there is no trees and all the stuff 18:15 paramat see my biomesdev mod for the work in progress 18:16 paramat we put a simple grassland biome in to stop the complaints about v7 being only stone 18:17 paramat of course now the complaints are 'where are the trees?' lol ;) 18:17 neoascetic Okay, i. e. default biomes will exist in v7 when it is finished? Or with mods only? 18:17 paramat yes 18:18 neoascetic Yes on second question? :) 18:18 paramat first 18:18 neoascetic Oh, great 18:18 paramat with the option of removing them and creating your own 18:18 neoascetic I really like v7 output (all these rivers/etc) 18:18 paramat yes it's my favourite mapgen 18:18 neoascetic (hope it will be finished one day) 18:19 paramat i'll be tuning the terrain a little so it will get better 18:19 paramat just 1-2 months it will be ready 18:19 rubenwardy And then v8! 18:19 paramat lol 18:19 rubenwardy http://sandbox.ltmnet.com/images/vl/1503.00.png :£ 18:19 paramat and v9 18:19 rubenwardy * :3 18:20 paramat hopefully one by hmmmmm and one by me 18:20 rubenwardy hmmmm, that's the sort of flexibility which would be nice. 18:20 neoascetic paramat I saw your paragenv7 mod - will we have something like that when v7 is finished? 18:21 hmmmm mapgens are supposed to have unique personalities but no "crazy" terrain and one-off features 18:21 paramat similar but better, see the 'mapgen news' thread on the forum 18:21 hmmmm those things are supposed to be for mods 18:21 hmmmm balanced for easy playability 18:21 Tablet_One I can't wait to see the new mapgens 18:22 paramat you can use my biomesdev mod already in v5/v7 for a taste 18:23 paramat BTW push complete 18:24 neoascetic great, so I'll wait for another 1-2 month before starting my server: I want only default biomes on the map 18:25 paramat back later 18:42 hmmmm yaY my replacement hard drive came 18:46 rubenwardy Woohoo! :P# 18:59 Krock hmmmm, what have you done to destroy the older one? 19:01 VanessaE Krock: dd-wipe the drive once, if possible, then nail the HDD to a tree, aim shotgun, fire. take resultant pieces, dissolve in acid. 19:01 VanessaE :) 19:01 Krock VanessaE, have you tried all ways to make sure it works? 19:02 VanessaE Krock: I was joking :P 19:02 VanessaE there's an old rumor that the US Navy used to do something not too dissimilar from that when decommissioning a hdd. 19:03 VanessaE (supposedly they'd wipe, shred into fine particles, scatter at sea) 19:09 rubenwardy Guttman method 19:09 rubenwardy or whatever 19:09 rubenwardy ~g guttmann method 19:09 ShadowBot rubenwardy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gutmann_method | The Gutmann method is an algorithm for securely erasing the contents of computer hard drives, such as files. Devised by Peter Gutmann and Colin Plumb and ... 19:09 rubenwardy We should implement this into Minetest! 19:10 Calinou it's BS 19:12 rubenwardy Probably 19:29 hmmmm the previous one arrived DOA but i didn't realize that for about a month since i was busy with other stuff and never got to install it 19:37 VanessaE aw man, spoil my joke :P 21:12 paramat sfan5 Tesseract here's a PR for MTGame that will speed up mapgen game#474 can anyone approve? i can push it for you 21:12 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/474 -- flowers/mapgen.lua: Register flower decorations for mgv6 by paramat 21:14 paramat i would like to do the same for default mod papyrus, cacti and grasses in another PR 21:15 hmmmm paramat, i tried biomesdev v7 and i didn't see any cacti in the regular, square pattern like in the screenshot 21:15 hmmmm i've seen it before but it takes rather specific noise params to reproduce it... 21:16 paramat biomesdev uses deco code so no square pseudorandom patterns 21:17 paramat those patterns occur in mgv6 only due to bad pseudorandom 21:17 hmmmm ohh 21:18 hmmmm are you *sure* about that? 21:18 hmmmm because i've noticed it myself 21:18 hmmmm you realize that decorations use pseudorandom too 21:18 paramat oh hang on, i guess it could happen because the deco code uses pseudorandom 21:19 paramat you will improve the PR code? 21:19 hmmmm i need to replace all instances of PseudoRandom with PcgRandom 21:19 paramat yeah 21:19 hmmmm all? 21:19 hmmmm well hrmm 21:20 paramat well whatever 21:20 hmmmm i can't really change PseudoRandom in CavesV6 because with mapgen v6, caves are part of the terrain 21:20 paramat at least in deco code 21:20 hmmmm yeah 21:21 paramat the old PR code seems okay with caves, not noticeable 21:21 paramat the issue in biomesdev is tree density dropping in patchy areas 21:22 paramat seen best in jungles because they should be solid 21:22 paramat often density drops on hills and 3D noise terrain 21:22 paramat it's bemusing 21:25 paramat affects tree schems only, the junglegrass in jungles is solid as it should be 21:31 paramat as for schematics, i have a request: i need a way to convert the lua data table of a lua-table-defined-schematic into a .mts file. worldedit cannot do several essential things, and surprisingly lua tables are often easier and faster to work with 21:33 est31 paramat, what exactly do you mean with that request? 21:34 est31 and what are those essential things. 21:36 est31 because, as I read it, you request what "minetest.serialize" effectively does. 21:36 paramat placing ignore nodes, punching air to set it's probability, setting y-slice probabilities 21:37 hmmmm yes totally agreed 21:37 paramat however even if those are enabled lua tables are often much better to work with 21:37 hmmmm i'll have to create conversion routines for lua -> mts and vice versa 21:38 paramat great 21:38 hmmmm i was always dissatisfied with how cumbersome creating schematics is 21:38 est31 still not getting you. perhaps I need context... 21:38 paramat this is the final obstacle to finishing v5/v7 biomes 21:38 paramat erm there's a thread at github.. 21:39 est31 paramat, do you address me? which thread do you mean? 21:39 paramat https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2481 21:40 est31 ok thx 21:44 paramat essentially when working with force-placed schems i need to place ignore nodes or alternatively set air probability to zero. y-slice prob is needed to vary tree height 21:47 paramat for saplings: because there are now 2 sets of tree designs i might need a sapling abm to detect mapgen and either choose mgv6 lua tree spawn code or spawn a v5/v7 schematic