Time  Nick          Message
00:47 est31         ok https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.minetest.minetest is up again
00:47 est31         weird...
00:51 est31         but it should be fixed
00:51 est31         it only shows up when searching for "Minete"
00:51 est31         after all thats its "title"
00:53 est31         ~tell nrzkt can you fix the app's title? its only "Minete".
00:53 ShadowBot     est31: O.K.
01:03 paramat       hmmmm the schematic issue is here https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2481 a few months ago i also had the 'invalid schematic file' error when trying to place a schematic saved using worldedit. back later
02:05 WarrTab       Any interest in getting MT into f-droid?
02:07 hmmmm         paramat: the bug is clearly part of builtin
02:07 est31         WarrTab, yes there is, however I'm waiting for authorisation of c55
02:07 hmmmm         why
02:07 est31         I dunno
02:08 hmmmm         you don't need it.  celeron isn't an active part of this project and hasn't been for several years.
02:08 hmmmm         what could he possibly have to object about it
02:08 est31         most of the code is his
02:09 hmmmm         wrt function pointers in C++... yes, perfectly fine.  preferable, even
02:09 est31         ok, I'm giving it a try (app store).
02:09 hmmmm         don't understand the irrational hate
02:09 hmmmm         virtual function callbacks are basically masking the same exact mechanism with ugly multiple inheritance and OOO (object oriented overhead)
02:10 hmmmm         you can make the same functionality take 5x as many lines of code as it would be passing a simple function pointer instead
02:12 hmmmm         paramat: erm, no it's not, my mistake.  didn't see the "invalid schematic file" part :-P...  it looks like your .mts file somehow got corrupted, would be prudent to attach it as part of the issue report
03:41 * Zeno`       wonders how much less efficient 083c8c73 makes the network code
03:42 Zeno`         with the adding copying of objects
03:42 Zeno`         added*
04:02 paramat       thanks hmmmmm. will push #2487 very soon
04:02 ShadowBot     https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2487 -- mg_decoration: Raise highest allowed deco top to max edge of voxelmanip by paramat
04:14 paramat       now pushing
04:24 paramat       done!
05:22 hmmmm         Zeno`, ?
05:22 hmmmm         where does it copy objects
05:23 Zeno`         when pushing them onto the queue
05:24 hmmmm         that is not good
05:24 Zeno`         Before they were allocated and just the pointer to them was finally pushed onto the queue
05:25 Zeno`         and the object deleted after it was popped off and processed
05:25 hmmmm         but it was messier having to keep track of NetworkPacket allocations
05:25 hmmmm         I think it might be a good idea to keep the copying of NetworkPackets, but make the structure itself lightweight
05:26 hmmmm         actually nevermind that wouldn't work because we don't use c++11 yet
05:26 hmmmm         not having move ctors makes this messy
05:28 Zeno`         yeah
05:29 Zeno`         it's cleaner this way but there was no need to "keep track of" the NetworkPacket allocations because so long as they were sent (via Send()) they would be deleted
05:29 Zeno`         I know the new way makes sense, I just wonder how much impact it has
05:29 Zeno`         maybe it's nothing significant, I dunno
05:29 hmmmm         both ways make sense for different reasons
05:30 hmmmm         at first I thought the first way *didn't* make sense because I missed the part where it got enqueued
05:30 Zeno`         I had the reverse confusion, heh
05:30 Zeno`         I was wondering how the pointer of the queue remained valid (before I looked at how it was enqueued)
05:31 Zeno`         pointer on*
05:32 hmmmm         https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/083c8c734e8af037d8ad3a1a35475a5d4756572c#diff-ad60d65b34e16a3319296bb5d683acd6R1456
05:32 hmmmm         don't tell me that SendMovement is actually sent every single time there's movement
05:33 hmmmm         does it actually NEED to read 5000 entries from the config each time
05:33 hmmmm         this is a candidate for caching
05:35 Zeno`         yikes
05:35 hmmmm         hmm
05:35 hmmmm         Zeno`:  I can't seem to actually find the part where it copies it into the queue... I'd assume this would need to be modified in this commit, no?
05:36 Zeno`         no it wasn't modified in this commit because Send() still takes a pointer to the packet
05:37 hmmmm         where is it then?
05:38 kahrl         SendMovement is only called in response to INIT2
05:38 Zeno`         connection.cpp line 2842 is where it finally ends up
05:38 hmmmm         that's an awfully misleading name
05:38 kahrl         yeah
05:39 hmmmm         hmm wait, isn't that sapier's original code?
05:39 Zeno`         server.cpp is the actual Send() function (line 1448)
05:42 Zeno`         maybe. I stopped looking at it (I mainly looked at it because I wondered why the pointers were not becoming dangling)
05:44 Zeno`         maybe it's a reference counted object; I'd have to look again
05:45 Zeno`         hmm. seems it was always copied even in the original version
05:46 Zeno`         oldForgePacket()? I wonder what that means heh
05:48 hmmmm         me too
05:48 hmmmm         so wait
05:49 hmmmm         is oldForgePacket sapier's or nerzhuel
05:49 hmmmm         oh, nevermind
05:49 hmmmm         i thought that was part of Connection
06:22 Zeno`         http://gafferongames.com/networking-for-game-programmers/udp-vs-tcp/    <--- interesting
06:23 Zeno`         Even though I've read similar before it's good to see that the view is still current/valid in 2015
06:29 hmmmm         yeah, I hope nerzhuel doesn't still think he's going to switch the network to TCP...
06:32 Zeno`         I dunno. Haven't heard any mention of it apart from at the beginning
08:09 est31         #2491 doesn't compile for some reason, but I don't know why
08:09 ShadowBot     https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2491 -- Finer progress bar updates when initializing nodes by est31
08:12 est31         hmmmm, I didn't use function pointers after all, because the only use case you can use them with < c++11 doesn't fit for me. c++11 isn't viable though, as debian 7 isn't released yet.
08:12 hmmmm         ???
08:12 hmmmm         what do you mean
08:13 hmmmm         aww man, think about separation of concerns
08:13 hmmmm         why does updateTextures need a handle to the device and guienv
08:14 est31         to call the update method
08:14 hmmmm         why can't you pass the update method along
08:14 est31         because it will need the parameters too
08:15 hmmmm         yeah but they can be abstracted away from updateTextures
08:15 est31         I'm not sure whether they are the same which the client class has
08:15 hmmmm         so what's wrong with this:
08:15 hmmmm         virtual void updateTextures(IGameDef *gamedef, void (*progress_callback)(void *), void *progress_callback_args)=0;
08:16 est31         hmmmm, that sounds reasonable
08:16 hmmmm         struct TextureUpdateArgs { IrrlichtDevice *device; gui::IGUIEnvironment *guienv; };
08:16 hmmmm         TextureUpdateArgs args;
08:17 hmmmm         args.device = device;  args.guienv = guienv;
08:17 est31         yes, I'll need two additional params to the pointer, but mostly it looks good.
08:17 hmmmm         okay
08:17 hmmmm         in fact maybe you don't even need to define a struct for that
08:17 hmmmm         just make it a void **
08:18 hmmmm         then pass along void *callback_args = {device, guienv, NULL};
08:18 hmmmm         erm, void *callback_args[];
08:18 neoascetic    what system requirements for the Android app?
08:18 est31         neoascetic, --> #minetest
08:18 hmmmm         see you shouldn't even technically need NULL there even
08:19 est31         yes seems so, I always know the length
08:19 hmmmm         because using callback arguments is basically done by an agreement between the one passing the callback and the callback itself
08:19 hmmmm         there are lots of very bad, overcomplicated solutions to this problem
08:19 hmmmm         in C++11 there are lambdas and other functional things that are used as closures
08:20 hmmmm         when we adopt C++11.... the functional features is one thing I'd like to avoid entirely
08:20 hmmmm         s/is/are/
08:21 hmmmm         without C++11, you can have something like what Google did in their base chromium library and all these gay Closures and Callbacks<> which is a few thousands of lines of extremely confusing template code to accomplish what I accomplished in 5 lines of code
08:22 hmmmm         don't ever fall into this trap of making some trivial mechanism overly complicated because you're convinced it needs to be done The C++ Way(tm)
08:47 nrzkt         est31: done sorry :)
08:47 est31         np :)
08:47 nrzkt         application is now valid on play store, please increase the download number, the reviews, etc :p
08:47 nrzkt         and don't hesitate to add comments :p
08:48 nrzkt         the first download stats will be available tomorrow or in 2 days
08:48 est31         is it valid?
08:48 Krock         *downloads*
08:48 nrzkt         the state is published on playstore now, since the last update (i don't modify many things)
08:49 est31         ah this must be "google update": not all users see the same version
08:50 neoascetic    nrzkt I've add 5 stars, but cannot run it :D
08:50 neoascetic    how to debug? there is no debug.txt
08:51 Krock         hmm.. where's it? I can't find it on the app store :/
08:51 Krock         maybe too less downloads to get noticed
08:51 est31         Krock, search for "Minete" :D
08:51 nore          https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.minetest.minetest
08:51 Krock         found!
08:52 est31         neoascetic, either the problem is so severe it doesn't even populate that directory, or it doesn't populate that directory, but some other
08:52 est31         neoascetic, can you inspect catlog?
08:52 neoascetic    Mac developer program costs $99/year. F*king Apple
08:54 neoascetic    est31 there is the only Minetest directory, and it is empty
08:55 neoascetic    probably RAM issue
08:55 est31         neoascetic, can you run catlog on that device?
08:55 Krock         Minete keeps crashing when I try to open t :(
08:55 neoascetic    383Mb free of 645
08:55 est31         https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.nolanlawson.logcat
08:55 neoascetic    Oh, seems like same problem as mine
08:55 nrzkt         sorry german, was a typo fix yesterday when fixing the deleted app :s
08:56 nrzkt         with logcat we can know what is the problem Krock
08:57 neoascetic    so, should I search for minetest in catlog?
08:58 est31         yes
08:58 neoascetic    E: unable to read bindir
08:59 est31         neoascetic, do you have more info?
09:01 Krock         unknown permission android.permission. READ_EXTERNAL_STORAGE
09:01 Krock         .. in package net.minetest.minetest
09:03 nrzkt         oh ? what is your android version ?
09:04 Krock         1min. I re-tried and now I get another error: unable to read bindir
09:04 nrzkt         hmmmm: the oldForgePacket is here for compat, because we need a SharedBuffer in the queue, not a NetworkPacket, it's not sapier's work but mine
09:04 kilbith       he's not here
09:04 Krock         it also can't find the sharedir
09:04 kilbith       use ~tell
09:04 nrzkt         oops :p
09:04 Krock         use memo
09:05 nrzkt         ~tell hmmmm the oldForgePacket is here for compat, because we need a SharedBuffer in the queue, not a NetworkPacket, it's not sapier's work but mine
09:05 ShadowBot     nrzkt: O.K.
09:06 celeron55_    nrzkt: where is that apk available outside of google play?
09:06 Calinou       celeron55_, see the news post
09:06 celeron55_    ok
09:06 Calinou       https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=11483
09:06 Calinou       https://github.com/minetest/minetest/releases/download/0.4.12/Minetest-0.4.12.7-android.apk
09:07 neoascetic    here my log: https://gist.github.com/neoascetic/47d5eb88b61dc2e25b4d
09:07 nrzkt         ~tell Zeno` our reliability process create a TCP stack over UDP. I want to use a native TCP for reliable packets, and after, add a UDP socket for non reliable packets. This permit to handle connections efficiently with the reliability and the connection state and UDP for unreliable packets, natively
09:07 ShadowBot     nrzkt: O.K.
09:08 Calinou       I like the hybrid TCP + UDP idea, but you will have to make a notice about it
09:08 Calinou       so that people hosting servers forward both TCP and UDP
09:08 Krock         neoascetic, I'm getting +/- the same
09:08 neoascetic    yep
09:09 celeron55_    https://metacrane.com/ff/33667/20150315110836.png
09:09 celeron55_    this happens for me
09:09 nrzkt         Calinou: right, but it's not time to tell admins to do it because stack isn't finished yet, i need to finish it but i have so many things to do :p. The TCP part is finished except for big  packets which  need a special socket handling
09:10 est31         That bug celeron55_ ? Zeno should have fixed it.
09:10 nrzkt         celeron55_ i think we must use current master instead of stable 0.4, many android fixes have been added. I only release stable-0.4 to keep our release process correct but i got bugs too
09:10 est31         ah yes the fix was added > 0.4.12
09:10 nrzkt         est31: i also have the bug, but not in master. If you find the commit i cherry pick into stable-0.4 and release a new apk
09:11 celeron55_    well in this situation we probably have to use a custom version
09:11 est31         nrzkt, celeron55_  https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/5698e2baf8008b11706a4bbc4d62c8b584703834
09:11 nrzkt         ok, i cherry pick and test the apk. If okay celeron55_ can i release 0.4.12.10 on play store ?
09:12 est31         I'm not sure perhaps this is needed too :https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/aefe80769bc515e0ddbfc734d41de396aca1259c
09:12 celeron55_    i think the version should be something that clearly indicates it's an android-only version
09:13 celeron55_    i'd go for 0.4.12.a1 or something :P
09:13 nrzkt         android build doesn't use the tags if i can remember
09:13 est31         it does
09:14 nrzkt         celeron55 why not. I look at this
09:14 est31         but if it fails it replaces the version with "gUnknown" -- which is bad as thats used then instead of "0.4.12".
09:15 Krock         I've seen MagiChet on the appstore (with desktop browser) and that version has the gUnknown problem
09:17 est31         sfan5 has found out about it
09:23 nrzkt         est31: i picked the 2 commits into stable-0.4, will now test it, if it fix i push the stable-0.4 branch and then try to fix this versioning status
09:26 nrzkt         thanks est31: that's good. I can now look at the version problem
09:27 nrzkt         xD for gUnknown
09:27 nrzkt         grep -R gUnkn ../..
09:27 nrzkt         ../../build/android/Makefile:		export GITHASH=gUnknown;
09:27 est31         It just shouldnt do anything
09:28 nrzkt         simple: android uses gUnknown , and only android :). Then i replace gUnknown with Android, that's better, no ? :)
09:28 nrzkt         then the version will be 0.
09:28 Zeno`         est31: #include <IAnimatedMesh.h> doesn't fix the problem (#2491)?
09:28 nrzkt         0.4.12-Android
09:28 est31         nrzkt, the problem is it will only print "Android"
09:29 est31         GITHASH also contains the 0.4.12
09:29 est31         thats why setting it that way doesnt work at all
09:29 Zeno`         actually you probably don't need to do that; just forward declare it and make sure IAnimatedMesh.h is in the appropriate .cpp files where/if necessary
09:29 nrzkt         oh, really ? i verify this
09:29 est31         Zeno`, I'll do it as hmmm suggested
09:29 est31         with func pointers
09:29 Zeno`         est31, what did hmmm suggest?
09:29 est31         and no needless inclusions
09:30 Zeno`         a fwd decl is not an include :P
09:31 fz72          nrzkt: did you cherry pick the fix of Zeno` for fgettext?
09:31 nrzkt         hmmmm githash is properly shown in my released in fact. It's a problem with other builds
09:31 nrzkt         fz72: yes
09:32 nrzkt         but the version is only the tag there, i don't see 0.4.12
09:32 est31         still nrzkt this logic makes the makefile stuff unneccessary:  https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/587167e940228e52e5df5e4b5ecb7b5ff1ea1a7b/src/version.cpp#L29
09:32 Zeno`         est31, it's actually a (compile-)bug that really should be fixed despite the approach you finally take
09:33 est31         Zeno`, so you mean its unrelated?
09:33 Zeno`         est31, not totally unrelated but I've seen the same "bug" (if it can be called a bug) in other PRs before
09:33 Zeno`         I'll fix it after your final solution if you like
09:34 est31         ok Zeno`, thanks
09:37 Zeno`         I suspect it's down to different irrlicht versions and a file move or something. I'll see if your PR compiles for me
09:37 est31         even if its still WIP
09:37 Zeno`         *shrug* can't hurt
09:48 nrzkt         ok, i will push a version fix for Android in stable-0.4. The VERSION_STRING is now: $(git-tag)-(git-commit)-Android
09:50 est31         I don't know but isn't an android branch better for this?
09:50 est31         what are opinions on this?
09:50 est31         & then use tags for "releases".
09:50 nrzkt         no
09:51 nrzkt         we don't have hands for this. I do this because we need to have a proper Android release because we have many and many users on it. But the code remains the same
09:52 nrzkt         i think we could backport some useful fixes for Android or 0.4 into stable-0.4 branch but maintain another branch is too hard. Look at dev-0.5, i was the dev to maintain it. If we are more maybe it's useful but not there
09:52 est31         with installed version mostly being controlled by us, we can have a separate release schedule, with shorter cycles (but only stability fixes between versions).
09:53 nrzkt         stable-0.4
09:53 nrzkt         :)
09:53 est31         ok perhaps stable-0.4 does exactly that.
09:54 est31         but still would be better to have a stable branch that will work after 0.5 release too.
09:54 neoascetic    stable-0.5?
09:54 nrzkt         stable-0.4 will not be removed.
09:54 nrzkt         yes stable-0.5 i think, our tree is divergent between stable-0.4 and master
09:55 est31         but then you would need to change the branch in order to update.
09:55 nrzkt         but at 0.5 release we must keep master and stable-0.5 in sync
09:56 nrzkt         okay, i publish APK v 10 to google play store, it's working properly. Calinou are you there ?
09:56 Calinou       yes
09:56 est31         I'm just asking because f-droid has an automatic version detection system: it gets the versions from the git tags. also it would benefit from your maintaining nrzkt if you tag your pushes to play store.
09:56 nrzkt         i will publish a new release on github
09:57 est31         thats enough nrzkt :)
09:57 est31         is neoascetic's and Krock's problem fixed, too?
09:57 nrzkt         est31: i understand, but i think don't automate a use commits could be better atm because the release process is not very very clear :s
09:58 nrzkt         the permission problem ? they don't give me their android version
09:58 est31         no, something else
09:58 est31         https://gist.github.com/neoascetic/47d5eb88b61dc2e25b4d
09:59 est31         "10:58:15: ERROR[main]: Unable to read bindir"
09:59 nrzkt         Calinou: please change the 0.4.12.7 links to 0.4.12.10 please
09:59 Krock         nrzkt, I said it's not the error, it was a warning
09:59 Calinou       changed
10:00 nrzkt         i'll look at this after, but i need your android version to look at the dev documentation about permission. I suspect something between android versions
10:00 est31         Zeno`, PR updated
10:02 est31         Krock, can you do uname -a on that android?
10:02 Krock         est31, ehm what? I have no idea how to open something like a console
10:04 Zeno`         est31 I think you can't (have to look at proc/something from memory)
10:04 nrzkt         you can view your android version into settings
10:04 nrzkt         uname -a will return the kernel, i'm not interest with the kernel but Android :p
10:05 est31         oh zeno can be right, busybox is required...
10:06 est31         I'm just wondering whether it could be linux < 2.2
10:06 Krock         kernal 2.6.35.7 android version 2.3.6
10:07 neoascetic    When app will be updated in play store?
10:07 nrzkt         in a few hours :p
10:07 nrzkt         the APK is published, now google must validate it
10:07 neoascetic    okay
10:07 est31         This is where the error is triggered. https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/9da99efca226c377d3bc2914561edffd812a9c1a/src/porting.cpp#L479
10:11 nrzkt         this proc is available on my Android 4.2.2
10:11 est31         yes its available since linux 2.2
10:11 est31         man sais that
10:11 est31         even before its available
10:11 est31         just no real symlink
10:14 nrzkt         then Krock, the right problem you get is normal... if i remember the right was added in android 4.x
10:15 nrzkt         note: i will backport the makefile changes to master in a few minutes
10:16 nrzkt         est31 #2490 ok ?
10:16 ShadowBot     https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2490 -- Update and complete German translation and fix mistakes (second try) by Wuzzy2
10:17 est31         nrzkt, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/0429ec4cfde636dd8dda3d1a0dcf6e175c821196#commitcomment-10202147
10:18 nrzkt         right i don't know why i let this :p
10:18 nrzkt         i fix the backport, not the stable-0.4, only at next release of android if needed
10:19 Zeno`         what is BUFSIZ?
10:19 Zeno`         I wish I didn't look
10:20 est31         lol :D
10:21 est31         Zeno`, http://dev.minetest.net/Code_style_guidelines#Function_declarations
10:21 est31         "Indention for follow up lines is exactly one tab."
10:24 Zeno`         est31, but not for function prototypes
10:24 Zeno`         lol
10:24 Zeno`         well, that used to be the rule anyway... maybe it's changed
10:25 Zeno`         https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/9da99efca226c377d3bc2914561edffd812a9c1a/src/porting.cpp#L474   <--- I'm surprised that this has never caused a stack overflow
10:25 Zeno`         est31, even if it's not the rule it makes the code prototype clearer (especially since it's a fn ptr)
10:26 Zeno`         oh wait... they're not rules; just guidelines :)
10:29 est31         ok, adding two tabs
10:29 Zeno`         only if you see what I mean...
10:29 est31         its just                                          we are talking abut
10:29 Zeno`         it just seems clearer to me (especially in that case)
10:29 Zeno`         that specific case*
10:30 est31         you mean it can be confused with \tprivate:\n\t\tvoid?
10:31 Zeno`         I mean just scanning the code really quickly that line 402 looks like another function prototype that has been indented improperly
10:31 est31         ah also github's tab width exactly matches "virtual "
10:31 Zeno`         yes
10:31 est31         it isn't constant
10:31 est31         so I might do the identation with spaces...
10:31 Zeno`         I know, but I'm talking about scanning not correctness
10:32 est31         two tabs wont help, what if somebody sets their editor to half width=
10:32 Zeno`         true
10:33 est31         e.g. this is what my editor shows: http://pbrd.co/1BkR33a
10:35 Zeno`         est31, wanna see something even weirder? http://codepad.org/8Io3RamE
10:36 Zeno`         (and yes that's compliant with the standard)
10:36 est31         (void) just means that its empty
10:36 Zeno`         nothing related of course... just something of interest
10:36 est31         wasn't even some ancient C version that required this?
10:36 Zeno`         well it's ok with c89
10:37 Zeno`         In c  blah() and blah(void)  are quite different --- not sure about C++
10:38 est31         Zeno`, better?
10:38 Zeno`         if the void is not there the function /may/ have arguments (that you can retrieve using va_ functions)
10:38 Zeno`         hmm?
10:38 est31         see PR
10:38 Zeno`         oh, the PR.. stop remaining on-topic
10:38 Zeno`         lol, /me looks
10:39 est31         now its mixed spaces and tabs in order to guaranteed break from normal reading.
10:39 est31         except people set their tab width to 0
10:40 Zeno`         seems ok to me
10:41 est31         some benchmarks: dreambuilder loading requires 20 seconds in that textureupdate method
10:41 est31         0.2 of those are spent drawing
10:41 est31         100 times
10:42 est31         minimal test spends 140 ms in that method
10:42 est31         and spends indistinguishably nothing in the method
10:42 est31         after all, only one frame is drawn
10:42 neoascetic    btw why only windows and android binaries present in release?
10:42 est31         (usually around 20% for some reason)
10:43 est31         neoascetic, linux has package managers.
10:43 neoascetic    okay, same for OSX then...
10:43 est31         and spends indistinguishably nothing for **drawing**
10:44 * est31       continues reading the wuzzy translation PR
10:46 Zeno`         performance isn't a huge issue in this part of the code
10:47 est31         its just important that the gui gets updated
10:47 Zeno`         yes
10:47 est31         android even asks you whether to kill the app because it doesnt react
10:47 est31         when you touch it while loading
10:48 neoascetic    > There are no Android builds yet, we'll add them soonâ„¢. in release 0.4.12 notes on github. I guess this is not true atm :)
10:48 kahrl         Zeno`, is it really compliant to pass a function pointer returning void when a function pointer returning void* is expected?
10:48 * kahrl       is confused
10:48 est31         kahrl, this is the OT stuff?
10:48 kahrl         oh, yes
10:49 Zeno`         kahrl, it's not returning a void *
10:49 Zeno`         the function is the pointer
10:50 Zeno`         (right-to left associativity) and yeah it's compliant although I've never really seen anyone use that form of the prototype in real life
10:51 kahrl         I'm pretty sure void *(void) expands to void *(*)(void) which is a pointer to function returning void*
10:51 kahrl         you probably want void (*callback)(void)
10:51 Zeno`         kahrl, that is equivalent
10:52 Zeno`         we had a very interesting discussion about this very topic on ##c one night
10:53 kahrl         http://codepad.org/FLJdf9NP
10:53 Zeno`         no, no
10:53 Zeno`         that's in a different context... it must be in the parameter list
10:53 Zeno`         only in the parameter list is it equivalnet
10:54 kahrl         I never heard of such a thing
10:54 Zeno`         neither had most people on ##c
10:54 Zeno`         I think the only one who had was pragma
10:55 Zeno`         Zhivago at first said it was wrong as well but then changed his mind
10:55 kahrl         AFAIK functions get promoted to function pointers in argument lists, which makes void *callback(void) equivalent to void *(*callback)(void)
10:55 kahrl         gcc complains about your code: http://codepad.org/SP5OQOS2
10:55 Zeno`         I wish I'd kept the log and my bookmarks
10:56 est31         nrzkt, commented on #2490
10:56 ShadowBot     https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2490 -- Update and complete German translation and fix mistakes (second try) by Wuzzy2
10:56 nrzkt         Thanks est31
10:58 kilbith       sfan5: you can ban ElectionLibre plz ? he's impersonating ppl on several channels
10:59 est31         This ElectionLibre 97e4d023@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.151.228.208.35
10:59 est31         not the one who joined right now.
10:59 est31         thats ElectionLibre :)
11:00 ElectronLibre ^ The one with the webgate adress is KittenHelper.
11:00 est31         nrzkt, if you have time to review #2491?
11:00 ShadowBot     https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2491 -- Finer progress bar updates when initializing nodes by est31
11:01 nrzkt         what is the change in fact ?
11:01 nrzkt         i didn't test it, which bar ? at loading ?
11:01 est31         at joining yes
11:01 est31         right now, its not even updating.
11:03 nrzkt         i think having a constructor could be nice
11:03 est31         ?
11:03 nrzkt         TextureUpdateArgs tu_args(device, guienv, getTimeMS() ... );
11:04 est31         if you know a compact way.
11:04 est31         but I dont want to add a huge constructor thats used precisely one time
11:04 nrzkt         i see
11:06 nrzkt         seems good but not familiar with those void* :p
11:06 Zeno`         they're fine
11:06 nrzkt         then if they are fine let me a second
11:07 nrzkt         please fix whitespaces
11:08 est31         lol Zeno` demanded them that way.
11:08 nrzkt         git am is not happy
11:08 est31         "mixed whitespace"?
11:09 nrzkt         http://pastie.org/10027506
11:09 Zeno`         I suggested 2 tabs :P
11:10 est31         two tabs then to satisfy git?
11:11 nrzkt         space before tab in indent said git
11:11 est31         ha! with two tabs, my editor has the issue.
11:11 nrzkt         i like the feature, except that :p
11:15 est31         Zeno`, what about new way?
11:15 est31         (nrzkt, too)
11:17 sfan5         kilbith: which channels?
11:18 est31         sfan5, #minetest-dev, I think they are already banned from #minetest
11:19 sfan5         est31: they are already muted here
11:19 kilbith       sfan5: here and #minetest-fr
11:20 sfan5         i can't do anything in #minetest-fr
11:20 kilbith       already banned in that channel
11:20 Zeno`         well, it's not an argument it's a parameter
11:20 Zeno`         heh
11:20 Zeno`         (since we're being pedantic)
11:22 est31         wow Zeno` you are a compiler?
11:22 Zeno`         nah. But just one real nitpick... void (*progress_callback)(void *, u32 progress, u32 max_progress) ... the first parameter is not named but the rest are
11:23 Zeno`         I think they should all be named
11:23 Zeno`         why is it void* anyway? For future expansion?
11:24 est31         Zeno`, to not require any type stuff from the caller
11:24 Zeno`         I don't really see why it cannot be TextureUpdateArgs *
11:24 est31         I dont even know whether client.cpp is included there
11:24 Zeno`         hmm
11:24 est31         I would also need to make it non-local too
11:24 Zeno`         ok, so it's for forward-compatibility?
11:25 est31         its for decoupledness
11:25 Zeno`         ok, that's a fair enough argument I guess
11:25 Zeno`         *shrug*
11:25 Zeno`         I will merge. Can another dev agree or disagree please?
11:26 est31         but I'll fix the names if you want
11:26 Zeno`         yeah maybe give it a name
11:26 Zeno`         user_data is probably more "traditional" that "args"
11:27 Zeno`         s/that/than
11:27 est31         I'm using args elsewhere too
11:27 est31         and thats a real nitpick isnt it?
11:27 Zeno`         yep, leave it as args then and just add the name to the prototype
11:27 Zeno`         yeah it was real
11:29 nrzkt         est31, tell me when everything is good :p
11:29 est31         Zeno`, nrzkt should be now :)
11:29 Zeno`         I could nitpick more if you like :)
11:30 Zeno`         but anyway, I'll merge if another dev agrees
11:33 Zeno`         s/if/when
11:33 Zeno`         haha
11:34 est31         in the meantime, you could have a look at #2482 too.
11:34 ShadowBot     https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2482 -- Fix bug that disabled game-based minetest.conf default setting by est31
11:34 Zeno`         for reference, there are casts that are not required
11:34 est31         in which PR?
11:34 Zeno`         e.g. u16 cur_percent = ceil(progress / (float) max_progress * 100.);  should simply be   u16 cur_percent = ceil(progress / max_progress * 100.0);
11:35 neoascetic    Could one more core developer review #2471 please?
11:35 ShadowBot     https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2471 -- Standalone bundle for OSX (w/ dependencies!) by neoascetic
11:36 Zeno`         ceil() requires a double and the expression you are evaluating casts the result to a float and then the call to ceil casts it back to double  (any compiler will fix that though)
11:39 est31         I'm not casting to u16?
11:41 Zeno`         in the assignment you're "effectively" casting, I was talking about the type of the result of the expression passed to ceil (which you cast to float when it's already of type double but ceil() wants a double)
11:41 est31         ah
11:41 Zeno`         100.0 <--- double
11:42 sfan5         100.0f <--- float
11:42 Zeno`         but why do that when ceil wants a double? :)
11:42 Zeno`         it's going to be reinterpreted anyway (back to double)
11:43 est31         ok fixing that too
11:43 Zeno`         if you like... it's kind of just a nitpick as I said
11:43 Zeno`         I will merge in 10 minutes if nobody disagrees
11:44 est31         Zeno`, btw how is the rule, "one double makes everything double?"
11:44 est31         and "one cast casts everything"?
11:46 Krock         Looks like everyone else had something else to do, it was quite easy to fix that bug #2493
11:46 ShadowBot     https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2493 -- Connect rails with connect_to_raillike again by SmallJoker
11:49 Zeno`         est31, type promotion
11:49 sfan5         uhh
11:49 sfan5         nrzkt: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/2bc0165652ec9244081f7c0db28c8d9c81b5d308
11:49 sfan5         nrzkt: why?
11:50 est31         nrzkt released a custom android version with backported fixes
11:50 sfan5         thats not what i mean
11:51 nrzkt         sfan5 why on what ?
11:51 est31         to not confuse it with "real" version, he added the "-Android".
11:51 sfan5         i was about to ask about that
11:51 nrzkt         you talk about the -Android suffix ?
11:51 sfan5         yes
11:52 nrzkt         because i fixed the gUnknown version, celeron55 suggest to add a thing to know it's an android build, then i add this suffix to build
11:52 nrzkt         then know version is 0.4.12-<commit>-Android
11:52 sfan5         we know that it's android by the arch anyway
11:52 nrzkt         if i play on my raspberry pi it's not android :)
11:53 est31         Zeno`, http://pastie.org/10027544
11:53 est31         this version works
11:53 est31         somehow I couldn't remove the casts
11:53 sfan5         this complicated things a bit
11:53 nrzkt         why ?
11:54 sfan5         because there are two ways android versions will appear
11:54 sfan5         1st Minetest/0.4.12-commit-Android armv7 and 2nd Minetest/0.4.11 armv7
11:55 nrzkt         with older official builds the version was only commit :s
11:56 Zeno`         est31, that's just precedence :)
11:57 sfan5         3 ways then
11:57 Zeno`         leave it as it is if you like, but ceil(100.0 * progress / max_progress) would work fine
11:57 sfan5         "Minetest/0.4.12-commit-Android armv7l" or "Minetest/0.4.11 armv7" or "Minetest/commit armv7" or "Minetest/gUnknown armv7"
11:57 sfan5         actually 4
11:58 est31         its staying that way.
11:58 est31         :P
11:58 sfan5         nrzkt: also you didn't fix gUnknown
11:58 nrzkt         i don't know where does 0.4.11 comes from, it's not the makefile way . Only commit exissts in the logs ?
11:58 sfan5         nrzkt: gUnknown only happens when it doesn't find a .git directory
11:59 est31         or git isnt installed?
11:59 sfan5         nrzkt: currently if it doesn't find git it will look like "Minetest/--Android"
11:59 nrzkt         the official build is done by myself and will contain the githash
11:59 sfan5         which isn't much better than gUnknown
11:59 Zeno`         also, 72 + (u16) ((18 / (float) 100) * targs->last_percent));  is better written as  72 + (u16) (18.0f / 100) * targs->last_percent);  IMHO :p
12:00 Zeno`         but... merging now
12:00 est31         Zeno`, see latest version
12:00 sfan5         x.x.x.x - - [15/Mar/2015:11:59:58 +0000] "GET /list HTTP/1.1" 200 112176 "-" "Minetest/0.4.10 (Linux/3.4.5 armv7l)" "-"
12:00 sfan5         ^ nrzkt, there are enough of these
12:00 sfan5         some third party clients
12:00 nrzkt         i can re-add gUnknown if you want sfan5
12:01 sfan5         no
12:01 sfan5         you don't need to re-add anything
12:01 sfan5         with that commit gUnknown because --Android
12:01 nrzkt         --Android will be non git builds
12:01 sfan5         yes
12:01 sfan5         gUnknown was non git builds too
12:02 nrzkt         then we could add the stats for those unofficials. Now we have a pattern for our official builds. I will have google play store stats in few days and if F-Droid and Amazon Store will be supported you will have more stats :)
12:02 sfan5         what I suggest is: don't set the CMAKE_VERSION_GITHASH at all when it isn't found
12:03 nrzkt         then the version will be only 0.4.12
12:03 sfan5         or set it to STR(VERSION_MAJOR)"."STR(VERSION_MINOR)"."STR(VERSION_PATCH)"-Android"
12:04 sfan5         even 0.4.12 would be more useful than --Android
12:04 nrzkt         i'll look at this idea in a few minutes
12:05 est31         good idea: <sfan5> or set it to STR(VERSION_MAJOR)"."STR(VERSION_MINOR)"."STR(VERSION_PATCH)"-Android"
12:06 sfan5         nrzkt: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.minetest.minetest is called "Minete"
12:06 sfan5         at least for me
12:06 est31         german problem
12:07 nrzkt         yes, it will be fixed when 0.4.12.10 will be available
12:07 sfan5         also the icon is still not very high-res
12:07 nrzkt         typo fix when republishing the app because google delete it because someone report it as spam...
12:07 nrzkt         if you get a 512x512 proper i'll change it
12:10 nrzkt         can somes look at minetest_game, sfan5, many pr are waiting for approval :(
12:11 fz72          Any Core Dev wants to review #2382?
12:11 ShadowBot     https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2382 -- Remap Mouse and Key Buttons by fz72
12:15 sfan5         nrzkt: here's a 512x512 http://meow.minetest.net/i/33b96e7e749ab565.png
12:16 nrzkt         thank, i updated the playstore
12:16 Krock         sfan5, meow lies to me, it tells me /i/ could not be found!
12:17 sfan5         Krock: directory listing is disabled
12:17 Krock         too bad
12:58 nrzkt         Okay guys, 0.4.12.10 is online on Play Store
12:58 nrzkt         please update your clients :). Also the german fix may be there
12:59 nrzkt         this will fix the problem with translations :)
13:01 Krock         is it still Minete?
13:04 Krock         Repaired #2480
13:04 ShadowBot     https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2480 -- Add mg spflags in dlg create world by srifqi
13:04 Krock         [needs testing]
13:04 nrzkt         Krock, can you verify on the playstore, it's fixed but after the apk update maybe not now
13:05 sfan5         nrzkt: it says "Minetest" for me
13:05 nrzkt         thanks sfan5
13:57 nrzkt         what about adding a message at login for outdated clients and integrate this in core or minetest_game ?
13:58 nrzkt         we check if client < server and send him a message
13:58 nrzkt         this could be good :)
14:14 Zeno`         DarkRoses, stop pretending you're someone you're not
14:14 Zeno`         social engineering so blatantly obvious will not work here
14:15 est31         FYI Zeno` that user is quieted on this channel.
14:15 est31         I'm still for a ban
14:15 Zeno`         good :)
14:15 Zeno`         I'd ban as well
14:20 Zeno`         hmm
14:20 Zeno`         seems they have logged into my server with similar names to my known players as well
14:20 * Zeno`       adjusts iptables
14:21 est31         on my server they logged in as admin, using social engineering attack
14:21 Zeno`         yikes
14:23 Zeno`         iptables -A INPUT -s 151.228.208.35 -j DROP   that should fix it
14:30 fz72          Zeno`: I don't see any progress on #2382
14:30 ShadowBot     https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2382 -- Remap Mouse and Key Buttons by fz72
14:35 fz72          Sorry, I have not seen your comment.
14:39 Zeno`         fz72, I really don't like the setting and reading of those... are they necessary?
14:39 nrzkt         sfan5, calls to masterservers are done with HTTP ?
14:39 sfan5         nrzkt: yes
14:41 fz72          Zeno`: I don't know another way. That's the same as for normal buttons. Why you don't like them?
14:41 nrzkt         can we have a new call please, i need to ask the master server what is last minetest version
14:41 nrzkt         #2442
14:41 ShadowBot     https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2442 -- Notifications of new engine versions.
14:42 nrzkt         i need 0 4 and 12
14:42 sfan5         just extend https://github.com/minetest/master-server
14:42 est31         I think we solve this problem using other methods.
14:43 est31         we should solve*
14:43 nrzkt         est31, what is your idea ? master server is a good server to point this :)
14:43 est31         make people use officially supported minetest
14:43 nrzkt         i don't talk about android
14:43 est31         afaik play store auto-updates
14:43 est31         so you talk about windows?
14:43 nrzkt         android problem must be solved by server admins
14:43 nrzkt         yes, windows for example
14:44 est31         because mac os and linux have own package repositories
14:44 nrzkt         add a masterserver test on windows (minimally on windows) which add a notification on the main menu when an update is available
14:44 Zeno`         KeyList is a std::list
14:44 est31         why do our own updater?
14:44 nrzkt         not an updater, i want a notification
14:44 Zeno`         those string values/lookups are not exactly efficient
14:44 nrzkt         we need the information
14:45 fz72          ok, then it isn't good for all key buttons.
14:46 est31         my idea would be to encourage use of the chocolatey repo.
14:46 Zeno`         yeah it's no good for any key settings
14:46 est31         but that feature should be disabled by default, and only enabled for official release builds for windows and mac.
14:46 nrzkt         nobody use chocolatey, and there are many windows 7 without it
14:46 sfan5         est31: that will confuse the ordinary windows user
14:46 sfan5         and <nrzkt> nobody use chocolatey, and there are many windows 7 without it
14:47 Zeno`         what other key settings currently use that approach?
14:47 est31         having to download zip and extract it too.
14:47 fz72          What do you mean?
14:47 nrzkt         i use it because i'm a good user, but which windows user, which is a minetest play uses chocolatey ? 1/50k ?
14:47 Zeno`         I mean does the current code do a string search in a list for each key?
14:48 Calinou       Atom used to use Chocolatey for the Windows installs
14:48 Calinou       keep it up-to-date, it's something useful
14:48 nrzkt         we can keep it updated, but we don't forget the classic windows way: barbarian way
14:48 nrzkt         and a notification on masterserver could be good :p
14:48 fz72          I don't know.
14:48 Calinou       we should have an .exe installer preferably
14:49 Calinou       alongside with the .zip (which is portable)
14:49 Calinou       make it using NSIS or InnoSetup
14:49 Calinou       rubenwardy had a prototype of it
14:49 kilbith       kaeza too
14:49 nrzkt         +1 for InnoSetup :)
14:49 est31         barbarian way good description
14:49 fz72          Zeno`: I must go, but I will think about it.
14:50 est31         ok I agree now, having old installer is better.
14:50 est31         there are no convenient ways how to package chocolatey apps into installers
14:51 nrzkt         we need to handle all distribution paths, old paths included :p
14:55 rubenwardy    https://gist.github.com/rubenwardy/5397343
14:55 rubenwardy    ^ Outdated inno setup script for Minetest
14:56 rubenwardy    I stopped using Windows and so stopped making InnoSetup installers
14:58 rubenwardy    We can't rely on repositories telling uses of new versions, as they may not be updated.
14:59 Calinou       we could eventually get portable GNU/Linux builds too
14:59 Calinou       build them using Ubuntu 12.04 32 bit + 64-bit, should run nearly everywhere
15:01 est31         rubenwardy, then thats a problem with the repository, but we shouldnt reinvent the wheel
15:01 Zeno`         I would not run on my distro :(
15:01 Zeno`         it's unlikely anyway
15:02 rubenwardy    No it's the problem with the person that put the package there and then didn't maintain it
15:02 Calinou       Zeno`, Arch users can use the AUR anyway
15:02 Calinou       I'm not sure if 12.04 builds would run into Fedora
15:11 nrzkt         on arch the extra version is correct
15:11 nrzkt         we don't need the AUR
15:21 sfan5         <Calinou> build them using Ubuntu 12.04 32 bit + 64-bit, should run nearly everywhere
15:21 sfan5         or...
15:21 sfan5         just built (almost) completly static binaries
15:23 est31         xdg-app?
15:23 est31         I guess its too early for that
15:23 est31         no X support
15:23 est31         (not that I suggest that they add, but that wayland gets adopted)
16:06 hmmmm         guys,
16:06 hmmmm         I really am not too picky about coding style, just as long as it approximates something like the offical style
16:06 hmmmm         but please make your own code consistent
16:07 hmmmm         it sort of makes me upset when I see people switching between Type* and Type * within the same declaration
16:08 * est31       ducks
16:08 est31         those idents were zeno's wish btw.
16:08 est31         also agree to them.
16:09 est31         reason: the "void"s can be confused with wrongly idented methods.
16:09 hmmmm         in any case, switching topics to NetworkPacket buffer copies...
16:11 hmmmm         I think it would make more sense if SharedBuffer were extended to take a vector<u8>, or maybe switch the queueing system to accept NetworkPackets, or something
16:12 hmmmm         that way we could have the internal std::vector become allocated on ctor, deleted on dtor, but ownership is 'taken' from it once it gets enqueued
16:13 hmmmm         NetworkPacket::NetworkPacket(...) { buf = new std::vector<u8>(blah blah blah);  }  then in Send:  m_con.send(pkt.buf); pkt.buf = NULL; ...  then in NetworkPacket::~NetworkPacket() { delete buf; }
16:14 hmmmm         that way if somehow enqueueing fails, the result is cleaned up, otherwise the delete is deferred to the cleanup handler after the data has been pending on the queue and actually sent, and there are zero copies involved
16:19 nrzkt         hmmmm yes it's on the road but not pushed, i need to rewrite session manager and queue manager for the new protocol and this will be added there
16:20 Zeno`         huh
16:20 Zeno`         what idents?
16:21 hmmmm         https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/e4f7c92cff0badd6c40b47bd90b1fc1b35456a1a#diff-34f48ad91ac6c202ac60b0348ae90e30R1566  ?
16:21 hmmmm         double indented
16:21 Zeno`         I never suggested that
16:21 Zeno`         I missed it when looking, I will admit
16:22 hmmmm         well they are indents..
16:22 Zeno`         but I never suggested they be added
16:22 hmmmm         mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
16:22 Zeno`         where did I suggest that there should be 2 indents in that function? :P
16:23 hmmmm         hey i didn't read any of the backlog from last night after i went to sleep.
16:25 Zeno`         all I suggested was that the parameters of a function prototype should be indented especially because second parameter (which was the first line on the "continuation") was a function pointer
16:25 est31         two idents would break it when you set your ident width to 4 chars, one ident would break at 8 chars, so...
16:25 est31         then I tried mixed spaces+tabs solution
16:25 est31         git am of nerzhul complained
16:25 Zeno`         est31, the code hmmmm is pointing to has nothing to do with my "wish" :)
16:26 est31         aw
16:26 est31         umm yes thats my fault
16:27 est31         completely.
16:28 est31         I copied it and didnt fix identation: an explanation, but no excuse.
16:28 est31         (from its earlier place, which was around here: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/e4f7c92cff0badd6c40b47bd90b1fc1b35456a1a#diff-70868aa6d6b96c0c1623c761500d23c4R920 )
16:29 Zeno`         well, I merged it. But, hey... shit happens
16:29 hmmmm         heh
16:29 hmmmm         hey at least it's not as bad as that one commit to one of the mainmenu scripts
16:30 est31         umm which one
16:30 est31         mine?
16:30 hmmmm         "wha... how does minetest run with this blatantly invalid code... oh, THAT's the closing indentation
16:30 Zeno`         lol
16:30 Zeno`         yep
16:32 est31         so whats the accepted * style?
16:32 Zeno`         against the name
16:33 hmmmm         i always liked void *foobar better
16:33 Zeno`         const char *s and not const char* s
16:33 hmmmm         void* foobar seems to be more commonly used in academic settings
16:33 Zeno`         hmmmm, and it leads to errors
16:33 hmmmm         because CS professors want to make it clear that the pointer is a part of the type
16:33 hmmmm         right
16:33 est31         k void *foobar matches my gut feeling.
16:33 hmmmm         cause look at char *foo, *bar
16:33 hmmmm         what would that be
16:34 Zeno`         e.g.   void* ptr1, ptr2;
16:34 hmmmm         yup
16:34 Krock         Could someone pleasespend a minute to look at the bugfix #2493
16:34 ShadowBot     https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2493 -- Connect rails with connect_to_raillike again by SmallJoker
16:35 hmmmm         nodedef->get(n_plus_z_plus_y
16:35 hmmmm         that's repeated 3 times in the same block of code
16:36 hmmmm         also that seems like a rather egregious error you fixed... did the person who wrote that not bother testing their shit before they committed it?
16:37 Krock         BlockMen with commit https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/b65c7ab
16:37 hmmmm         in any case... that code is very repetitive
16:37 Krock         I know but what would you suggest?
16:37 hmmmm         one of the golden rules is to not repeat yourself
16:37 hmmmm         oh, i don't know, a loop?
16:39 hmmmm         if you look the only thing differing throughout that block of code is the position being checked.. v3s16 offsets[] = {v3s16(x - 1, y, z), v3s16(x+1, y, z), ...};  for (size_t i = 0; i != ARRLEN(offsets); i++) { ...
16:40 hmmmm         i honestly feel as if that entire function is a train wreck though
16:41 hmmmm         at least break up each case into a separate function..
16:54 Krock         I think I found a way
16:55 est31         also review for bugfix PR #2482 would be nice
16:55 ShadowBot     https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2482 -- Fix bug that disabled game-based minetest.conf default setting by est31
17:14 ShadowNinja   est31: I got the partial require working, but this is what it took to get there: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/10604980/
17:14 ShadowNinja   Is it worth that huge ugly mess?  Should I re-implement require manually instead (I'd be copying substantial portions of loadlib.c)?
17:15 ShadowNinja   I had to read the Lua source to find that magic _LOADED value that I need to override.
17:15 * est31       reads.
17:17 ShadowNinja   package.loaded is read from debug.getregistry()._LOADED, but package.loaders/searchers is read from _ENV.loaders/searchers
17:17 ShadowNinja   _ENV is set to package, instead of the globals table.
17:18 est31         lol
17:19 est31         what would be the major advantage in re-implementing? right now its ugly (can't really judge, haven't understood it yet), but only 40 lines
17:24 est31         *yess* minetest builds
17:24 est31         (for f-droid)
17:29 nrzkt         good news
17:29 nrzkt         have you look at the release documentation on dev.minetest.net, we updated it yesterday for android
17:35 hmmmm         glah h
17:35 Krock         hmmmm, https://github.com/SmallJoker/minetest/commit/419a14e
17:35 hmmmm         everybody's dipping their fingers into the mapgen param settings pool
17:35 hmmmm         and making it messy
17:36 hmmmm         Krock:  awesome
17:36 Krock         :D
17:36 hmmmm         see now that's what i'm talking about
17:37 Krock         but I'm not sure about pointers and such things.. could you please check if you find any possiblememory leak?
17:37 hmmmm         there can't be any memory leak...
17:37 hmmmm         you didn't modify anything with pointers in fact
17:38 hmmmm         I suppose the real question to ask is:  does it work?  have you tested it?
17:38 Krock         compiling right now
17:38 hmmmm         I think I need to find a final solution to the mapgen params issue
17:38 Krock         the people should use the per-world specific file
17:39 hmmmm         where we explicitly load each of the overrides right there in the same function
17:39 hmmmm         instead of being scattered throughout execution
17:39 hmmmm         so unless I'm mistaken, the current precedence order is still:
17:39 Krock         it works! double-smile
17:40 ShadowNinja   est31: Re-implementing would be less hacky and a big faster, although it would take more code.  That's not all though, the env and _LOADED also have to be set on security init, and both source tables have to be copied properly.
17:40 hmmmm         hardcoded defaults -> global minetest.conf -> game minetest.conf -> map_meta.txt -> lua mod override
17:55 est31         f-droid merge request sent: https://gitlab.com/fdroid/fdroiddata/merge_requests/639
17:56 est31         gtg btw, but I'll read the log with your comments.
18:05 nrzkt         VanessaE ?
18:06 VanessaE      hm?
18:07 nrzkt         i found an thing to modify for your death bug on non enable_damage, at connection
18:07 nrzkt         We don't send playerhp, but we can, i tested it, and also if the player is dead, tell the client is dead, which partially solve the death bug for those clients by reconnecting. Now i need to fix it live, without reconnect
18:08 nrzkt         i push the modification to the repository now
18:09 nrzkt         it was pushed
18:10 VanessaE      sounds ok
18:11 ShadowNinja   sfan5: If build-cleanup O.K. now?  I'd like to get it merged soon since it gets broken fairly easily.
18:11 ShadowNinja   Is*
18:12 ShadowNinja   sfan5: I removed that line from the man page like Zeno siggested and removed SOVERSION.
18:13 ShadowNinja   (And rebased it)
18:18 VanessaE      ShadowNinja: did you sort out the crashing problem with player_textures trying to access non-existent files?
18:18 ShadowNinja   VanessaE: Nope.
18:18 VanessaE      I think you're gonna wanna fix that :P
18:18 ShadowNinja   I even tried gdb with "catch throw", but it didn't catch it.
18:19 ShadowNinja   VanessaE: That was with security, not build-cleanup.
18:19 VanessaE      ah
18:19 VanessaE      conflated the two
18:22 ShadowNinja   ERROR[main]: ServerError: Attempt to access external file .../mods/player_textures/textures/player_singleplayer.png with mod security on.
18:23 ShadowNinja   Weird.
18:23 VanessaE      so it can't resolve that the relative path really points to the mod's own dir.
18:23 ShadowNinja   Oh...
18:24 ShadowNinja   Path restrictions won't work after init time.
18:24 ShadowNinja   There's not really a good way to fix that.
18:25 VanessaE      which means there may be a crappy way.
18:25 ShadowNinja   You'll just have to add player_textures as a trusted mod.
18:25 VanessaE      no
18:25 VanessaE      that's the wrong way to go about it
18:25 VanessaE      there needs to be a proper way to test if a file exists
18:26 ShadowNinja   The alternative involves something like local x = minetest.request_proof_of_modname() and then using that in later calls.
18:26 VanessaE      (even if that means ficing the mod, that's fine too)
18:26 ShadowNinja   Where x would be a userdata object.
18:26 VanessaE      fixing*
18:26 VanessaE      wat
18:26 VanessaE      this is doing a direct modname request with a simple string
18:27 ShadowNinja   VanessaE: The issue isn't existence, it's that the engine doesn't know what mod made an API call after init time.
18:27 VanessaE      why should an extra call be needed here?
18:28 ShadowNinja   And there's no easy way to fix that, because if the engine calls mod a and mod a calls mod b and b calls the engine, what made the request?
18:28 VanessaE      well mods reading other mods' folders shouldn't be an issue
18:28 ShadowNinja   VanessaE: player_testures can be fixed by listing the dir on startup and then consulting the table later.
18:28 VanessaE      (ergo, the file open operation being performed here shouldn't even be routed through security calls, it's just a read op)
18:29 ShadowNinja   This also fixes the "random color for texture when the texture's been added but the server hasn't been restarted" bug.
18:29 ShadowNinja   But I'll have to add something like LuaFileSystem's dir() to the engine.
18:30 VanessaE      that's a horrible way to do it
18:30 VanessaE      read a while dir and search it?
18:30 VanessaE      that's nuts
18:30 VanessaE      let the filesystem do its job
18:30 VanessaE      whole*
18:31 ShadowNinja   VanessaE: That's not how Minetest works though, it loads all textures on startup and has no support for dynamically adding tetures, so this actually fixes a bug and works better.  And it's faster.
18:31 VanessaE      so?
18:31 VanessaE      it breaks userspace
18:31 VanessaE      (so to speak)
18:32 VanessaE      I can fix the mod (or pilzadam can since its his, whatever) - but fixing it with incredibly hacky workarounds like that is just, no.
18:32 VanessaE      there has to be a better way
18:32 ShadowNinja   VanessaE: The mod dir is considered read-only, so if you need to access something there you can do it at startup.
18:33 ShadowNinja   (read-only because it might be somewhere like /usr/share)
18:33 VanessaE      then how are you gonna handle a mod searching and reading its own files in realtime?
18:33 VanessaE      I've run across one or two mods that do that, though which ones they were doesn't come to mind right now
18:34 ShadowNinja   VanessaE: I'm not, I can't without ugly hacks, but as I just pointed out it's not needed.
18:34 ShadowNinja   VanessaE: If you need to read something in the mod dir you can open it at startup.  If you need to write something use the world dir.
18:34 VanessaE      nono
18:35 VanessaE      in *realtime*
18:35 VanessaE      not startup
18:35 ShadowNinja   VanessaE: Add it to trusted_mods until the owner fixes their mod or caches the file object.
18:35 VanessaE      *headdesk*
18:36 VanessaE      "VanessaE:  fire a shotgun through your firewall and wait for the mod owner to make all those little holes unnecessary."
18:38 ShadowNinja   VanessaE: You prefer no firewall at all?
18:38 VanessaE      of course not
18:38 VanessaE      but if you're gonna erect a firewall, it's a bad idea to tell the user to start poking lots of holes through it
18:38 VanessaE      (or the modder in this case)
18:39 VanessaE      "This function will only work if the user adds the mod to their secure_trusted_mods setting or has mod security disabled."
18:39 VanessaE      this is where you fail, honestly.
18:39 VanessaE      users barely even know how to download a mod to install it in the first placd
18:39 VanessaE      place*
18:40 VanessaE      (the "firewall" analogy is somewhat ironic here, since these are the same users that generally are able to figure out their firewall software)
18:49 ShadowNinja   VanessaE: Here's a fixed version, the solid-color texture bug is fixed and it works with security (although it needs to be trusted for LFS): http://sprunge.us/dKXa
18:50 VanessaE      ShadowNinja: yeah, see that's just ugly
18:50 ShadowNinja   If you just want it to work with security just add the first line and prepend "i." to the io.open call.
18:50 VanessaE      and still, "trusted". FAIL.
18:51 ShadowNinja   VanessaE: If I add something like lfs.dir it won't need to be trusted.
18:51 VanessaE      mmmh
18:51 VanessaE      that's still a nasty workaround
18:51 est           agree
18:52 est           also agree to http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest-dev/2015-03-15#i_4187809
18:52 ShadowNinja   VanessaE: Oh well, it's what we've got.
18:53 * VanessaE    grumbles
18:53 VanessaE      you're breaking a mod's ability to read its own files
18:53 * est         gives the problem a closer look.
18:53 VanessaE      (without using hacky workarounds)
18:53 ShadowNinja   VanessaE: Only after init time.
18:54 ShadowNinja   And, as a said, the mod dir is to be considered read-only, so you can easily pre-load anything you need.
18:55 sfan5         because preloading 2GB although you probably only need 12MB is totally good
18:55 VanessaE      sfan5: THANK YOU.
18:55 sfan5         (I'm not saying a mod that needs 2GB of data exits, but it's possible)
18:55 VanessaE      that's an argument I wanted to make, but I couldn't find the words
18:55 ShadowNinja   sfan5: All you need is the file handle, you don't need to file:read("*all").
18:56 sfan5         what if I have like 8k files?
18:57 sfan5         you don't give someone a mod api only to say "no, you can't do that, bla bla bla, security." for every useful function a modder tries to call
18:57 ShadowNinja   sfan5: Use the insecure env if you really need it, but that number of files is highly questionable.
18:57 VanessaE      in this case, I have 238 filenames that would have to be loaded into that cache
18:57 sfan5         ShadowNinja: you can't know what a modder might need for what reasons
18:58 ShadowNinja   sfan5: I could add an API to work around this, but it won't work natively due to design restrictions in the API.
18:58 ShadowNinja   Security that won't work for a few mods is better than no security IMO.
18:59 ShadowNinja   (Although that's an option with the enable_security setting.
18:59 sfan5         security that limits the potential of mods is the worst security
18:59 ShadowNinja   )
18:59 VanessaE      between all my servers, there are 11,944 unique accounts (so obviously not everyone has a skin)
18:59 ShadowNinja   sfan5: Security isn't security if it doesn't inpose some limits.
18:59 ShadowNinja   (like no rm -rf /
19:00 VanessaE      security that limits the user or gets in his/her way is security they will bypass in the worst, easiest way possible also
19:00 sfan5         "you can't open files at runtime" is not a reasonable limit
19:00 VanessaE      (which in minetest's case would probably equate to not updating past 0.4.12)
19:00 ShadowNinja   sfan5: You can't open files >in the mod dir at runtime<.
19:01 ShadowNinja   world dir is fine any time.
19:01 sfan5         that doesn't make it reasonable
19:01 ShadowNinja   sfan5: And you have an idea for how to fix this?
19:01 sfan5         not impose that restriction?
19:02 ShadowNinja   sfan5: This was tested with dreambuilder, only one mod failed because of this restriction.
19:02 ShadowNinja   And my local worlds work.
19:02 sfan5         "works for me"
19:02 ShadowNinja   So this is not something that many mods will need.
19:02 sfan5         "no mods break right now"
19:03 sfan5         those sound like some good argument for limiting the potential of future mods
19:03 sfan5         +s
19:03 ShadowNinja   sfan5: Ugh, just tell me what you think about build-cleanup.
19:03 sfan5         link?
19:05 ShadowNinja   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/2402
19:06 sfan5         "Backtick format is deprecated "
19:06 sfan5         i'd like a source for that
19:06 sfan5         "because it's harder to read" doesn't sounds like a reasonable reason to deprecate something
19:07 Calinou       we use $() now
19:08 VanessaE      "When  the  old-style  backquote form of substitution is used,"  <-- bash man page
19:08 sfan5         is that in the style guidelines?
19:08 VanessaE      the man page doesn't call it "deprecated" but generally, it is.
19:09 ShadowNinja   sfan5: Readability is the whole point of code style.
19:09 sfan5         so it's actually deprecated, ok
19:09 sfan5         but when did we decide that we don't want to use ``
19:09 sfan5         ?
19:11 VanessaE      apparently it's because the $() method is POSIX while the `` method is not.
19:11 VanessaE      that's about all I can find to explain it, aside from readability
19:12 VanessaE      (I mean, why it's deprecated, not why it's necessarily in minetest code style)
19:12 ShadowNinja   VanessaE: Both are posix, but $() is prefered because it's more visible/readable and it can be nested easily.
19:14 VanessaE      hm, no surprise then if some websites get that wrong
19:14 VanessaE      still you're right that $() is easier to read.
19:20 est           what if we made it the other way?
19:20 est           allow untrusted <-> untrusted reads
19:20 est           between all mods
19:21 est           and a mod that needs privacy can request it at load time
19:21 est           it then gets a function that can be used to read/write inside
19:21 sfan5         it's not about privacy
19:21 sfan5         it#
19:21 sfan5         it's about security
19:22 est           so why is it bad when untrusted mod A can modify untrusted mod B?
19:22 est           "privacy" was just a catchy term
19:23 devmarth      est, (assuming youre est31 :P), do i include just the sdk folder or a folder inside of it like /platforms/ or /tools/?
19:23 est           --> #minetest
19:35 est           the only case that can be dangerous is when somebody is adding a new mod to the list of trusted mods.
19:35 est           and that has been "tainted" before by a malicious one
19:40 sfan5         ShadowNinja: see my comments on #2402
19:40 ShadowBot     https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2402 -- Clean up and tweak build system by ShadowNinja
19:41 sfan5         ShadowNinja: what was the error message with freetype and clang on travis?
19:43 Krock         Successfully tested #2493 are there any other things I should change or are there devs who can give me a +1? :)
19:43 ShadowBot     https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2493 -- Connect rails with connect_to_raillike again by SmallJoker
19:58 est           sfan5, https://travis-ci.org/est31/minetest/builds/53354328
20:00 ShadowNinja   sfan5: Replied to most of them, I'm working on security ATM though so it will be a little while before a get to fixing them.
20:01 est           ShadowNinja, I'm no NTFS expert but seen this: http://superuser.com/questions/364057/why-is-ntfs-case-sensitive
20:04 ShadowNinja   est: Bah.
20:05 est           whatever, ShadowNinja, what are your plans for security?
20:05 ShadowNinja   est: "git merge"
20:14 ShadowNinja   est, VanessaE: I found the source of that catch(...) issue: LuaJIT apparently probagates errors in a way that gcc catches as an exception.  Lua's setjmp/longjmp seems to bypass it.
20:15 ShadowNinja   I just removed the catch(...) block since it can't do anything usefull with an exception like that anyways.
20:54 est           ShadowNinja, disabling reading/writing in other mod's directories has no security benefit at all except the small one I outlined
20:55 est           and even that can be coped with when we let request_secure_environment() behave like request_exclusive_access()
20:56 est           (where request_exclusive_access() returns methods to open and modify files inside the mod's dir, disabling access to the mod's dir from the "normal" environment)
20:57 est           and ofc. request_secure_environment() should only behave like that, when its failing
20:57 est           still load order issues...
20:57 est           hmm
20:58 est           btw I'm ok if that gets added later on
20:58 est           most important thing is to get it into master first
20:59 est           but should be added before the next release
21:00 est           bye.
21:35 VanessaE      What's gonna be with these G*d damned "ghost" entities?
21:38 VanessaE      come ON already
21:38 VanessaE      enough delaying!
21:38 VanessaE      my creative server has become nearly unplayable because of this
21:39 VanessaE      what the fuck is the hold-up?
21:44 * VanessaE    is pissed off now.
22:03 VanessaE      ~tell nrzkt your attempt to stop the death loop with a send-HP packet does not work in practice.
22:03 ShadowBot     VanessaE: O.K.
22:04 VanessaE      furthermore, why is ANY change to HP being allowed on the server when damage is disabled?