Time Nick Message 00:07 gregorycu How does one view fps? 00:07 jin_xi F5 00:09 gregorycu I'm looking at ClientMap::render 00:09 gregorycu More than half of its time is spent in ShaderCallback::OnSetConstants 00:09 gregorycu aka. Half the time it's not even rendering 00:10 gregorycu Isn't this horrible? 00:14 RealBadAngel yes it is 00:15 RealBadAngel but with the current model of how the things goes its necesary 00:15 gregorycu hmmm... 00:15 RealBadAngel thats the main point of moving settings into a class and read its members instead of fiddlling with strings 00:16 gregorycu Is that a project which is happening? 00:16 gregorycu Is someone making that change? 00:16 RealBadAngel yes 00:16 RealBadAngel Zeno started to code that 00:17 luizrpgluiz1 hi devs and guys :) 00:17 gregorycu Can someone tell that dude to hurry the fuck up 00:17 gregorycu Where is he anyway? 00:17 RealBadAngel on the other side of the globe, playing (sleeping?) with kangaroos ;) 00:18 gregorycu I'm on the same side of the globe :P 00:18 gregorycu And I play with the same animals 00:18 RealBadAngel youre playing with kangaroos too? ;) 00:19 RealBadAngel greetings from poland anyway ;) 00:19 gregorycu Yeah, they are awesome 00:19 RealBadAngel but seriously, that change is rather big 00:20 RealBadAngel and definitely wont come in xmas release 00:20 gregorycu That's fine 00:20 gregorycu I'm looking at low hanging fruit to optimise, that is some of it 00:20 gregorycu What can also be done is a cache for bool values 00:20 gregorycu So the conversion happens on save 00:20 gregorycu As opposed to every read 00:21 RealBadAngel there are many spots to make things faster 00:21 RealBadAngel just pick your fav one 00:21 gregorycu Yeah, like the MeshUpdateThread 00:21 gregorycu Not sure what it does, but it does a lot 00:21 luizrpgluiz1 what improvements will put the new version of minetest? 00:21 RealBadAngel it is overloaded atm 00:22 RealBadAngel im working on the code that will require less mesh updates 00:22 VanessaE luizrpgluiz1: http://dev.minetest.net/Changelog#0.4.10_.E2.86.92_.3F 00:23 RealBadAngel luizrpgluiz1, theres a thread in forums for that 00:23 RealBadAngel for example meshnodes 00:24 RealBadAngel https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=10701 00:24 VanessaE what, no link to my test mod? :P 00:25 VanessaE https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=10428 00:25 RealBadAngel https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=10621 00:25 VanessaE homedecor uses some mesh nodes also now (mostly starting from that primitives example) 00:25 RealBadAngel VanessaE, i was lookin for links :P just wanted xmas themed in the first place :) 00:26 RealBadAngel btw, can you turn that snowman into a mod? 00:29 VanessaE a snowman? well, easily done of course.. 00:29 VanessaE but not really interested in that honestly 00:29 VanessaE (plus such is not slated for inclusion in minetest) 00:35 RealBadAngel VanessaE, hmmmm was asking for a model 00:35 RealBadAngel i found one ccbysa 3.0 00:36 RealBadAngel http://www.blendswap.com/blends/view/71110 00:36 VanessaE yeah, I saw that before 00:37 VanessaE Dec 10 03:01:28 er rather two nodes, a snowman head and a snowman body 00:37 VanessaE Dec 10 03:01:34 not meshes, just nodes 00:37 RealBadAngel it could be propably split 00:38 RealBadAngel idk blender but it is supposed to do much neater tricks than that 00:38 VanessaE http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest-dev/2014-12-10#i_4056170 00:38 VanessaE seems like he wants a nodebox-based, one-node-high snowman 00:39 RealBadAngel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzm8kTIj_0M 00:39 RealBadAngel theres no "nodebox" :) 00:39 VanessaE heh 00:40 jin_xi https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ib2Vl7JEjfc 00:42 RealBadAngel jin_xi, lol 00:48 gregorycu Hooray 00:48 gregorycu 5% speed improvement 00:51 luizrpgluiz1 celeron55: hi Celeron :D 01:19 RealBadAngel gregorycu, at what? 01:19 gregorycu Overall, but specifically it's a 10% speed improvement to the MeshUpdateThread 01:20 RealBadAngel can i see the changes? 01:20 gregorycu It's a simple change 01:21 gregorycu I've replaced VoxelArea::getExtent() == v3s16(0,0,0) with a new function VoxelArea::hasEmptyExtent() 01:22 gregorycu (I would have thought the compiler would have optimised the former to be equiv to the latter, but it did not) 01:22 RealBadAngel simple is a piece of wire, idea behind a piece of code is much more complicated 01:27 gregorycu You are a wise sage 01:36 RealBadAngel gregorycu, make a PR with that code so we can check it 01:43 gregorycu Will do 01:56 gregorycu Zeno 02:02 Zeno` Can #1991 be merged please? 02:02 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1991 -- Fix visual_scale for plantlike nodes by VanessaE 02:03 Zeno` hi gregorycu 02:04 gregorycu I heard you're going to fix settings 02:04 Zeno` me? 02:04 gregorycu Yeah 02:04 gregorycu Singlehandedly 02:10 Zeno` #1991 is so obviously correct I'll merge it 30 minutes or so unless someone objects 02:10 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1991 -- Fix visual_scale for plantlike nodes by VanessaE 02:14 RealBadAngel Zeno`, main problem was the "if" that was applying the move of the roots only for scale <1.0 02:14 Zeno` RealBadAngel, correct 02:15 RealBadAngel but jungle grass is bigger for example 02:15 Zeno` Which is why my bad is obvious :) 02:15 Zeno` Also I did a second thing wrong. I was using HDX and for some reason it was working in that :/ 02:15 RealBadAngel about the rest, thats my fault, i tried to fix the bug. but others just get used to faulty behaviour 02:16 jin_xi but why flip the signs? just get rid of the if 02:17 paramat hmmmm nore https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/380 02:21 VanessaE for reference: HDX worked for Zeno` only because his imagery was outdated (there was extra empty space/padding at the bottoms of some images to account for the old vertical offset problem that RBA originally fixed) 02:21 Zeno` it was a trick! Obviously cunningly designed to lure me into a trap 02:22 gregorycu Can you only do one pull request at a time? 02:22 VanessaE haha 02:22 VanessaE gregorycu: no 02:22 VanessaE as long as you use a separate branch for each feature you're coding, you can have more than one pull 02:22 gregorycu Oh, I don't have that 02:23 gregorycu So one PR per branch then 02:23 Zeno` merging 02:24 gregorycu My changes? Hooray! 02:25 paramat as far as i know if those temporary biomes get merged i will have to tell those using the biome api to use 'clear registered biomes' and 'register biome' within 'register on mapgen init' 02:26 kaeza gregorycu, even if you are working in a single feature, it is better to use a separate branch, and leave the "master" branch as a "clean" copy of Minetest 02:26 gregorycu Isn't the minetest/minetest branch a clean copy? 02:26 hmmmm this is disasterous 02:28 hmmmm i wonder how it would work out if I created the ServerEnvironment before scripts initialize, and then start processing environment steps only after they finish 02:33 paramat its a bit messy having to do everything in 'on mapgen init' so i really don't mind if thoe simple biomes don't go in, to give us more time to work on a solution 02:36 hmmmm you don't need to register biomes in on_mapgen_init though 02:36 hmmmm there's absolutely no harm in having biomes registered if the mapgen used is v6 02:36 hmmmm it would be preferable if you could register biomes outside of on_mapgen_init 02:37 gregorycu Are biomes a new feature? 02:39 paramat yes i agree, i did this because registered decos grief mgv6 02:39 paramat perhaps place decos should be removed from mgv6 02:39 Tesseract gregorycu: Yes, fairly new. Not yet considered a public API. 02:40 Tesseract paramat: Nah, decos can be usefull in v6 too. You can still register mapgen-specific decos too. 02:41 paramat yes, but it would solve one of these problems 02:41 paramat this indeed needs rethinking 02:45 paramat if place decos is in v6 we need to disable v5/v7 deco registration, to do that mapgen must be detected and this has to be done n 'on mapgen init' 02:45 paramat *in 02:47 paramat wotamess 02:48 paramat mapgen will need to be detected in 'on mapgen init' to enable/disable mgv6's on-gen function, to avoid that griefing mgv5/v7 02:53 paramat i'll withdraw my pull request then for now 02:53 hmmmm ? 02:54 hmmmm you don't need to register decorations if mapgen v6 is used 02:54 hmmmm just the biomes 02:54 gregorycu Who knows a lot of stuff about the MeshUpdateThread ? 02:59 paramat how do i register mapgen-specific decos? didn't know about this 03:00 hmmmm register the biomes in the main init, decos in on_mapgen_init 03:04 paramat yes 03:05 hmmmm i'm gonna try to see if i can move environment init before scripts start to run 03:05 hmmmm this has a lot of indirect consequences, though 03:05 paramat but then it seems players will have to clear registered decorations in 'on mapgen init' 03:06 hmmmm if i can remove on mapgen init completely, that would be excellent 03:07 paramat a while ago i tested 'clear biomes' and discovered it had to be done within 'on mapgen init' to have any effect 03:07 hmmmm not so 03:08 paramat .. if biomes were registered within 'on mapgen init' 03:08 hmmmm any biomes that were registered before it are cleared except for the internal builtin all stone biome 03:08 paramat i may have misremembered 03:08 paramat need to test again 03:09 hmmmm i need to ask celeron if there is any actual reason why scripts run before environment init 03:10 hmmmm but this is stuff that needs to wait until after release 03:10 paramat yes, since we're so close to release perhaps we go with hmmmmm's default biome in builtin 03:10 hmmmm i don't *like* it, but it'll have to do 03:10 hmmmm so listen 03:11 hmmmm with clear biome and register biome you're able to add biome groups 03:11 hmmmm each mod can add its own set of biomes 03:12 hmmmm selecting a biome set makes the builtin functions do a raw biome clear and a raw biome add of all the biomes registered to that group 03:12 paramat okay 03:13 hmmmm the idea is to do as much of the work as possible in the lua 03:13 hmmmm features like these are higher level and certainly don't need to be part of the core 03:13 hmmmm the core is overbloated the way it is 03:14 paramat this could be solved short term by removing 'place decos' from mgv6? 03:15 hmmmm it's getting too close for comfort 03:15 hmmmm we should probably let it go until after release 03:16 paramat yes certainly, by short term i meant after release 03:16 paramat i need to test and play with all this more, and edit my biome branch 03:18 paramat sorry i should have discussed all this a while ago :) i'll close my MTgame pull 03:20 paramat i still have lots of testing to do on new noise stuff for release so will focus on that 04:28 hmmmm not sure why it took me so long to realize it but our noise frankly sucks 04:28 hmmmm it's low-quality 04:29 hmmmm it has sort of a roundish-cube look 04:29 hmmmm especially the 3d noise 04:30 Zeno` pics? 04:30 hmmmm see any mapgen output ever 04:30 hmmmm this is one of the reasons why I want to add simplex noise as an option 04:43 kahrl let's rename minetest to roundcube! oh wait... :P 04:44 kaeza kahrl, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1959#issuecomment-67597942 04:45 kahrl kaeza: hrm 04:46 kahrl since I don't have windows: any idea in what function it locks up? 04:46 gregorycu Thank you, I'll take a look right now 04:46 VanessaE kahrl: got a moment? 04:46 kahrl not really 04:46 VanessaE mmh 04:46 kahrl need to finish some stuff for uni 04:47 VanessaE well I just wanted to point out while you're here.... regarding https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/17dde5ddd0387c66aefc77e210c676e39c3b653c 04:47 kahrl glad it's the last day of uni for a while ;) 04:47 VanessaE there's an XCF for that, http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/images/infinite16.xcf 04:48 kahrl oh... does it produce different results? 04:48 VanessaE kilbith mentioned that the image you ended up with has bad contrast compared to my original file 04:48 VanessaE he seems to think so but I haven't had time to verify. 04:49 kahrl well of course it looks like that with the white github background 04:49 kahrl but it looks fine to me in the main menu 04:50 VanessaE oh, nope he's right 04:51 VanessaE hm, in practice it'll look the same though against a black background 04:51 VanessaE well almost the same, the difference is subble 04:51 VanessaE subtle* 04:52 VanessaE http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/screenshots/Screenshot%20-%2012182014%20-%2011%3a52%3a40%20PM.png 04:53 VanessaE (left is yours, both loaded from their original files into GIMP and then flattened against black) 04:53 gregorycu kaeza: I am still not able to repo 04:54 gregorycu I'm using 4.11 rc1 04:55 VanessaE kahrl: I'd much appreciate it if you'd use my original file ;) also there's a 64px version for high-DPI screens if you're interested. 04:56 kahrl VanessaE: I'll change it this weekend 04:56 VanessaE ok. 04:56 kahrl keep the .xcf around in case we need it again at some point 04:56 VanessaE sure 05:16 gregorycu I have this situation where terrain fades into view, the disappears, then fades into view again 05:16 gregorycu The same terrain, and I'm not moving 05:17 VanessaE view range auto tuner. 05:17 VanessaE yeah, does that to me too, sometimes 05:18 gregorycu This happens endlessly 05:18 gregorycu Why does it happen? 05:20 VanessaE no idea 05:26 kaeza okay... gregorycu, kahrl, the issue seems to be somewhere in async event handling 05:26 kaeza I have no idea how to debug this further 05:27 gregorycu When you freeze, what does the console window say as the last line? 05:29 kaeza currently, I modified builtin/mainmenu/common.lua, around line 183 (anon functions in handle_async call), and the second function is never called 05:29 kaeza (the function that should handle the result of the async call) 05:30 kaeza I also noticed that those async functions are being called twice in succession. not sure if that is intended 05:33 gregorycu hmm 05:35 gregorycu Well, I chucked some dodgy Lua in that file, and indeed, I crashed 05:35 kaeza from a quick look, looks like whoever coded that ignored the first rule in menu_lua_api.txt and is using globals from inside the functions 05:36 kaeza maybe kahr-l's patch just introduced some timing differences that makes it fail now 05:37 kaeza (I'm assuming some sort of race condition or something) 05:38 gregorycu In any case, Bad lua shouldn't cause a crash 05:39 gregorycu I don't know how to handle it gracefully however 05:40 kaeza I don't know how async calls work really, but in any case it should be some kind of hack as Lua is not really thread-safe 05:40 kaeza and too sleepy to check out 05:40 kaeza me, not Lua :P 05:43 gregorycu Before you go 05:43 gregorycu You got no output in your console? 05:43 kaeza just the regular intro 05:44 gregorycu Interesting 05:44 gregorycu If there is a lua error, it is meant to print to the console 05:44 gregorycu Maybe there is a race condition where terminate is called before it gets the chance 05:47 gregorycu This is a Lua issue, and I don't know enough 06:30 paramat hmmmm i have noticed the rounded-cube look of eased 3D noise, not unpleasant though, would tuning the easecurve help? 06:31 hmmmm i don't think it would have a significant impact 06:31 paramat non-eased 3D noise is still my favourite, looks amazing 06:31 paramat i'm now testing lacunarity and flags in a lua mapgen, good so far and interesting 06:32 hmmmm the rounded cube look i think is caused by having a low number of octaves 06:32 paramat absvalue is indeed different to abs(2d noise result) 06:32 Zeno` lunacy! 06:33 hmmmm combined with a low persistence value 06:34 paramat okay i'll test eased 3D noise next and try tuning it 06:34 paramat what i mean of course is i noticed the rounded-cube look in mgv5 06:35 hmmmm is the output identical to the old mapgen v5? 06:35 paramat perhaps slightly different 06:36 paramat not sure 06:38 paramat one thiing i did notice is new mgv5 seems to have more extreme values: higher mountains, more floatlands 06:39 hmmmm that's not necessarily good 06:39 paramat uhuh, epic though 06:40 paramat highest point found in new mgv5 so far is y = 175 06:42 paramat https://cdn.mediacru.sh/R/R-Kj-hNdFDra.png 06:45 gregorycu Is that good or bad? 06:47 paramat good unless new mgv5 is significantly different from old mgv5 06:48 paramat i might re-compile c55's branch to compare again since i'm so unsure about this 06:55 paramat mgv5 has terrain persistence 0.55, i'm tryng 0.63 in this lua mapgen and it looks awesome 06:59 hmmmm aghh 06:59 hmmmm i have to fix the irrlicht u64 problem every time i skip to a different old commit 07:00 paramat the rounded-cube look is still subtly there but perhaps it's inherent with noise, not a problem to my eyes 07:00 hmmmm it's inherent with that type of noise 07:00 hmmmm simplex noise does not have this problem 07:02 paramat interesting i'll research simplex 07:03 paramat lacunarity 1.1 creates very high quality smooth rolling hills 07:04 hmmmm with 3d noise? 07:06 paramat 2d 07:06 hmmmm i tried modifying lacunarity a couple days ago, nothing below 2 though 07:07 hmmmm with 3 it tends to make many small bumps in the terrain 07:07 hmmmm so yeah, i guess it's the logical opposite of 1.1 07:08 hmmmm i can't help but wonder if the rounded cube look would be reduced if we used cubic interpolation rather than linear 07:09 paramat lacunarity 1.1 with high octaves and persistence makes high quality 3d noise, very un-cubic 07:09 paramat but heavy processing 07:13 paramat ahhh its so good being back in lua mapgen, core is stressful 07:14 paramat 3d noise eased, absvalue is bubbly like merging bubbles with inverted ridges between 07:15 paramat all checked and working then, thanks for these new possibilities 07:33 gregorycu Ahh damnit 07:33 gregorycu Minetest searches for mods in ..\mods UNLESS it's under your home directory... 07:36 gregorycu No, that's not accurate 07:36 paramat okay simplex noise sounds excellent from research, really looking forward to that 07:42 hmmmm i can really understand when people say they miss the way 0.3.x was 07:42 hmmmm there's a beautiful simplicity in it 07:42 hmmmm super low tech but it works well 07:44 gregorycu The Lua C API doesn't appear to make much sense 07:47 hmmmm ...? 07:54 gregorycu For the record, minetest searches for mods relative to the binary if RUN_IN_PLACE is set, otherwise in user directory 07:55 hmmmm that's the point of RUN_IN_PLACE 07:55 gregorycu Yes... it would appear to be 07:55 hmmmm paramat: http://i.imgur.com/ScVcjFm.jpg http://i.imgur.com/ScVcjFm.jpg 07:55 hmmmm I'd say v5 is pretty different 07:56 hmmmm er http://i.imgur.com/AZDj7w7.jpg 07:56 gregorycu wow 07:56 gregorycu What's your FoV? 07:56 hmmmm what? 07:56 gregorycu Field of view 07:57 hmmmm paramat: most notably, 3d noise isn't eased in 0.3.3 07:57 hmmmm I don't know.. 07:57 gregorycu It's large 08:24 * paramat looks 08:25 paramat but eased in later 0.3.x? 08:26 hmmmm this is the latest 0.3.x 08:26 hmmmm btw here's the same thing with not-eased noise: http://i.imgur.com/rPb2QsH.jpg 08:26 paramat so mgv5 only became eased in c55's branch...? 08:26 hmmmm you're doing something waay different 08:27 hmmmm mgv5 as in the mgv5 in 0.3.1, 0.3.2, and 0.3.3 08:27 hmmmm did he base his v5 revival off an earlier version? 08:28 paramat don't know 08:29 paramat his input on this will be interesting =) 08:30 paramat all i know is right from the beginning of reviving v5 it was chosen to have eased noise 08:30 paramat we could make it an option 08:31 paramat when i compiled his branch it was almost certainly eased (from memory) 08:31 paramat fairly sure 08:32 paramat i would heve noticed the spikiness 08:36 paramat non eased v5 looks good to me, should be an option, especially since it's true to some/all versions of 0.3.x 08:37 hmmmm guess what 08:37 hmmmm it's already an option 08:37 hmmmm you can set mapgen noise parameters in the config :) 08:38 paramat oh yeah 08:38 paramat kewl 08:39 hmmmm heh 08:39 hmmmm looking at the commit where genuine perlin noise was dumped in favor of the simplified version 08:40 hmmmm "// This is too slow" 08:40 hmmmm i'll have to give it some love and bring that back too, since the noise it creates is typically of higher quality 08:41 hmmmm humm 08:41 hmmmm sorry to break it to ya but historically minetest never had eased 3d noise 08:41 hmmmm https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/48a772b3c6388cbe7f9003557f27cc2cf51b8fe8 this is where 3d noise gets added 08:42 paramat in early 0.4.x 08:44 hmmmm noise.cpp doesn't seem to be touched in 0.4.x 08:46 Zeno` touch noise.cpp 08:46 Zeno` problem fixed 08:46 hmmmm https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commits/0.4.4/src/noise.cpp 08:46 hmmmm so yeah 08:46 paramat 26 feb 2011 seems to be v0.2.x looking at releases 08:47 Zeno` wow, I didn't realise it would have been that long 08:47 hmmmm after adding the mindless "flip xz" and "constant 1" noise options, celeron didn't actually touch that file 08:48 paramat O/ 12:52 kilbith does someone could update http://dev.minetest.net/Changelog please ? 12:53 Zeno` 0.4.11 is not released yet though 12:53 kilbith it can me made since the freezing appliance 12:54 Zeno` hmm, probably yeah 13:23 sol_invictus beeheizeitiesaijahbu 14:19 luizrpgluiz hi 14:42 roniz http://a.pomf.se/vrnjvs.png what is wrong with the glass? 14:44 sfan5 roniz: 1) you should ask this in #minetest 2) the drawtype of glass should be set to glasslike 14:45 roniz okay, can you help in #minetest sfan5 14:45 sfan5 roniz: see 2) 14:56 sfan5 celeron55: has there been a decision about including subgames into 0.4.11? 14:59 celeron55 none of the menu stuff that postponed it from 0.4.10 was done, so the situation is quite the same 14:59 sfan5 so.. no subgames? 14:59 celeron55 i.e. there still are no game descriptions in the menu 15:01 celeron55 what's the planned release day? 15:01 sfan5 I think hmmmm said something about christmas 15:01 sfan5 I wrote around 24th in the RC post on the forums 15:02 sfan5 s/around 24th/"around the 24th"/ 15:14 celeron55 there's a serious polishedness issue in skytest for example 15:14 celeron55 because the helicopter lags like literal hell due to the very heavyweight map generator 15:15 sfan5 nore: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/379 ok? [yay/nay] 15:15 celeron55 it's just... not worth releasing to the wide public, practically everyone would hate it 15:16 kilbith Carbone is mature for it, though 15:18 celeron55 guys, it would be kind of a good idea to focus development on these things that that subgames are trying to do but fail at due to engine issues 15:18 Zeno` any comments on #1967? 15:18 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1967 -- Add display_gamma option for client by Zeno- 15:18 celeron55 instead of anything else 15:18 celeron55 nothing else is worth it 15:18 celeron55 just so that you know what to do for 0.4.12 15:27 Zeno` celeron55, what kind of things? 15:27 celeron55 this is still a very tough question 15:27 celeron55 Zeno`: that isn't a tough question 15:27 celeron55 Zeno`: the things that for example skytest and tutorial need are quite obvious 15:28 celeron55 skytest needs a way to asynchronously generate the custom world so that the helicopter does not suck, and tutorial needs support for pre-made worlds which can be instantiated from the menu 15:28 celeron55 and both need a description in the menu 15:28 Zeno` I thought we were not allowed to add extra Lua functions 15:29 celeron55 anything that is required for a clean implementation for each of those features is allowed, because how else they could ever be made? 15:29 celeron55 but! the tough questions is subgames for this release 15:30 celeron55 question* 15:31 shadowzone good thing my subgame is simple and doesn't have all these extra features 15:31 hmmmm oh hey celeron 15:31 hmmmm why is the ServerMap created after script init 15:32 celeron55 shadowzone: that means it's also quite identical to minetest_game and thus unneeded 15:32 celeron55 hmmmm: i don't know 15:32 hmmmm good 15:32 hmmmm i'm going to flip that around and remove on_mapgen_init 15:33 celeron55 maybe you will find out while doing it 15:34 hmmmm oh another thing 15:34 shadowzone celeron55: I am trying to make different from minetest_game and I am young and still learning so I could use some encouraging. 15:35 hmmmm what version was your mapgen v5 revival branch based on 15:35 celeron55 shadowzone: that means you will need these extra features 8) 15:35 shadowzone Which I hope to end up with 15:35 shadowzone I am working on a HUGE mod for it 15:35 hmmmm it certainly doesn't match the output of 0.3.3 (which has incredible terrain, by the way) and minetest never had eased 3d noise 15:37 celeron55 i am guessing 0.3.2 because i have that code around 15:37 hmmmm the difference between 0.3.2 and 0.3.3 is two commits and neither of them are related to map generation 15:37 celeron55 i would guess the noise parameters have somehow got modified in the process of porting it 15:37 celeron55 either their interpretation or the actual parameters itself 15:40 celeron55 or that they just haven't changed; obviously all screenshot of v5 over the years have been from the absolute best stuff it has ended up creating 15:42 hmmmm i did a comparison last night with the same seed at the same position 15:47 celeron55 flying around in a current mgv5 world, i would say yes, this is the exact same stuff we had back then 15:48 celeron55 dunno about exact seeds, doesn't seem like a big issue 15:48 celeron55 various things have changed since then anyway 15:48 hmmmm http://i.imgur.com/ScVcjFm.jpg http://i.imgur.com/AZDj7w7.jpg 15:50 celeron55 i will say though that current texture packs are boring as hell compared to the bright colors of 0.3 15:53 Zeno` did 0.3 have stuff (land) floating in the air? 15:55 Megaf_ Zeno`: Im getting a billion of this 15:55 Megaf_ 10:53:57: ERROR[ServerThread]: ServerEnv: Trying to store id=2824 statically but block (-6,2,-13) already contains 128 objects. Forcing delete. 15:55 Megaf_ like, 200 of them in one second 15:56 Megaf_ I increased the number to 4000 15:57 Zeno` that has nothing to do with anything I've done AFAIK 15:57 VanessaE I've gotten the same thing on my worlds before, and I've been unable to explain it 15:58 Zeno` I get it on MTZ quite commonly :( 15:58 VanessaE go to the mapblock in question and there are NONE in the block (not even the 128 allegedly already there) 16:03 Megaf_ yep, there's nothing there 16:03 sol_invictus reported block position is false 16:03 VanessaE make sure you're in the right block (multiply the coords by 16 and teleport to there) 16:04 VanessaE sol_invictus: oh? 16:04 sol_invictus VanessaE: ah, right 16:05 sol_invictus well, I remember I added logging to spawn entity function and the reported position of spawn entity and the error message were different 16:06 sol_invictus anyway, why spawn entity is not logged? 16:06 sol_invictus I'd help tracking down problems like this 16:07 sol_invictus s/I'd/it'd 16:24 Calinou can be added in builtin code 16:25 hmmmm so it's friday, supposed to be the day of the 0.4.11 release 16:25 hmmmm what's the status on the blockers? 16:29 Calinou wasn't it December 24? 16:29 Zeno` 2 blockers fixed, 3 to go 16:30 hmmmm no, there's a week of feature freezes 16:30 kilbith hmmm: the week-end is the period when the devs are the most available for reviewing the PRs, better releasing after that 16:31 hmmmm so 16:31 hmmmm #1896 has a patch already - nobody committed it? 16:31 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1896 -- font_size setting broken 16:32 hmmmm #1860, RBA said he's working on it yesterday 16:32 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1860 -- Wield item is always fully bright 16:32 hmmmm the root cause for #1959 was found i think, kaeza is the one working on that i think? 16:32 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1959 -- Checking public serverlist checkbox causes minetest to freeze. 16:33 hmmmm we could theoretically get this out today 16:33 Zeno` #1896 has a workaround committed that you and I discussed, hmmmm 16:33 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1896 -- font_size setting broken 16:33 hmmmm then perhaps the blocker label should be removed 16:33 Zeno` well, I dunno 16:35 Zeno` 5c55738 is related 16:35 Zeno` https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/f7f7fec497f83da0d9f6ea2e83796720484033ff is the one that bypasses the issue 16:37 Zeno` Since sapier seems to be away maybe the blocker should be removed 16:37 hmmmm yeah it was 16:38 hmmmm as far as i understand, the other two are in progress 16:41 Zeno` Since the issue no longer manifests because the offending code is commented maybe the blocker should be removed 16:42 Zeno` it still needs to be fixed but it doesn't look like anyone is working on it and *shrug* the current version works 16:43 VanessaE hmmmm: the release date IS december 24. 16:43 VanessaE that was the target date. 16:44 hmmmm who came up with friday as the feature freeze then 16:44 VanessaE beast me 16:44 VanessaE beats* 16:44 hmmmm a one week feature freeze started last friday 16:44 hmmmm so this friday at whatever time, there should be a release 16:44 VanessaE er, today is friday you know... 16:45 Zeno` not here! It's saturday here 16:45 VanessaE sorry, your choice of words just seems odd 16:45 hmmmm but today is not the 24th 16:45 VanessaE anyway, the 24th is the target date. 16:45 hmmmm aha 16:45 VanessaE it was supposed to be out by then as a "christmas release" 16:45 hmmmm i don't know who came up with that 16:45 hmmmm christmas release doesn't mean it needs to be released on or right before christmas 16:46 VanessaE um, yeah it does 16:46 VanessaE that's basic marketing 16:46 hmmmm .. 16:46 hmmmm well look 16:46 hmmmm as soon as these two blockers get resolved, there's going to be a release 16:46 Zeno` the release date as far as I know is the 24th 16:46 hmmmm point me to where that was said 16:46 Zeno` no, leave it until the 24th hmmmm 16:46 hmmmm could you explain why 16:47 VanessaE Dec 19 10:01:55 I think hmmmm said something about christmas 16:47 VanessaE Dec 19 10:02:06 I wrote around 24th in the RC post on the forums 16:47 Zeno` because that is the date that was published and that's the purpose of a feature freeze even if no new issue crop up 16:47 VanessaE but that's far too recent, lemme search back 16:47 hmmmm I said we should add a snowman block that gets added to maps around christmas time 16:48 hmmmm and stops getting added after christmas 16:48 VanessaE hmmmm: that ^^^ was in response to c55 asking what the release date was. 16:48 Zeno` you don't "feature freeze" until x/x/x and then decide before that date there is nothing left to resolve and release anyway 16:48 VanessaE I'm checking logs 16:48 hmmmm Zeno`, the feature freeze was defined to be a week lon 16:48 hmmmm long 16:48 hmmmm that's the problem i'm having 16:49 hmmmm so if the release date were actually going to be the 24th, why wasn't the feature freeze on the 17th? 16:49 Zeno` I'm certain the 24th was specified. If not then *shrug* (but a week is not long enough; that's a different issue) 16:49 VanessaE hmmmm: why does anything around here lag behind? 16:50 Zeno` it was/is a 2 week feature freeze IIRC 16:50 hmmmm because people like yourself and zeno think that we should wait longer 16:50 hmmmm that's why 16:50 Zeno` me? 16:50 hmmmm you're clearly a proponent of a 24th release 16:51 Zeno` Yes, I do think 2 weeks is more appropriate but I was not involved in the discussion at all 16:51 Zeno` So don't look at me :P 16:51 hmmmm the development process as a whole is fubar 16:52 hmmmm waiting some arbitrary amount of time doesn't make the software better 16:52 VanessaE um... 16:52 hmmmm this is like Debian 16:52 Zeno` it does. It gives people time to TEST 16:52 hmmmm "if we have REALLY old packages, our OS will be more stable" 16:52 Zeno` you really think 2 weeks is a long time? 16:53 VanessaE we should "wait longer" because we have a BAD habit of making a pending-release announcement when there are nasty bugs left on the table, and not focusing on fixing those nasty bugs before people start talking about releasing... 16:53 hmmmm 0.4.11 should have its own branch already 16:53 hmmmm any bugfixes should be retroactively applied to that 16:53 hmmmm development should never stop though 16:53 VanessaE I don't care if it's released at christmas, channukah (8th night, since the 1st night is long past), new years, easter, or any other major holiday 16:54 hmmmm this has got to be the only project in existence that doesn't have a distinction between -RELEASE and -CURRENT 16:54 VanessaE I care that a release is planned when there are few big, user-facing bugs on the table, such that devs who are capable of fixing those bugs can find the time and can be bothered to fix them 16:54 Zeno` it's probably one of about 2 projects that also has functions that are 500 lines ore more (commonly) 16:55 Zeno` seriously, what is wrong with a feature freeze? 16:56 hmmmm nothing, but you need to set a boundary somewhere 16:56 Zeno` yes, the boundary is the 24th 16:56 hmmmm 1 week was the agreed upon boundary 16:56 hmmmm this better be the least buggy release ever done 16:56 Zeno` 1 week to check for bugs and properly test? 16:57 hmmmm we shouldn't have to do so many god damn bugs 16:57 Zeno` even 2 weeks is not long enough 16:57 hmmmm from now on if someone adds a new feature, they need to add unit tests for it 16:57 Zeno` you cannot unit test many of the things in minetest 16:57 VanessaE hmmmm: oh, also, the start-of-freeze was delayed because kahrl was working on adding some icons 16:57 VanessaE Dec 12 16:16:46 I'm just waiting on kahrl for icons before start 16:57 VanessaE ing the freeze. 16:57 VanessaE Dec 12 16:17:15 hmmmm: Really? Is anyone going to make substant 16:57 hmmmm then perhaps your software is poorly designed 16:58 Zeno` unit tests for anything but the lowest level of functions are a waste of time 16:58 VanessaE (oops, ignore the second line) 16:58 Zeno` hmmmm, my software? 16:58 VanessaE and before that, Dec 12 13:14:40 ok, so we freeze today? 16:58 Zeno` no, I don't think so :P 16:58 hmmmm minetest as a whole 16:58 VanessaE Dec 12 13:15:22 PilzAdam: +1 16:59 VanessaE so yeah, freeze was announced and began on the 12th 16:59 hmmmm yeah 16:59 hmmmm you and zeno both indicated you want it to be longer than a week 16:59 hmmmm so the date which the feature freeze went into effect is irrelevant 17:00 Zeno` hmmmm, a week is not long enough. But I based all of my comments on the fact that I *thought* 24th was the planned released dat 17:00 Zeno` date* 17:00 hmmmm zeno-, have you ever heard of test-driven design 17:00 Zeno` those remaining two blockers will not be fixed today anyway 17:00 Zeno` hmmmm, I have 17:00 hmmmm well then 17:01 Zeno` hmmmm, you can not convert the minetest codebase to a test-driven design because of the crap load of functions that do 25428592 different things 17:01 Zeno` instead of ONE 17:02 Zeno` well, you can. But not this month 17:02 hmmmm and that's fine 17:02 hmmmm good things take time 17:02 hmmmm a lot of end users are starting to complain about overall quality being more important than having new features 17:02 Zeno` there are good arguments against test-driven design as well 17:02 VanessaE AH 17:02 VanessaE found the reference 17:02 VanessaE Dec 12 10:08:23 there are about 12 days left until we plan to release, w 17:02 VanessaE ould not be a good time to release an RC build for people to test? 17:02 hmmmm the reason why we focus on new features is because that's what everybody wanted initially 17:03 VanessaE that equates to dec. 24 17:03 sfan5 VanessaE: that's a guess 17:03 sfan5 s/that's/that was/ 17:03 sfan5 ugh 17:03 sfan5 s/.*/I was not sure when we planned to release./ 17:04 sfan5 VanessaE: try searching before that date 17:04 celeron55 i'm testing some subgames to be up to date with them 17:04 VanessaE and besides, according to my logs, *I* was the one who suggested start-of-freeze on Dec 10 and release day on Dec 24 17:04 VanessaE sfan5: ^^ 17:04 celeron55 voxelgarden is a very solid start at something slightly different than mt_game, but it's lacking content; i'm guessing it will be good once the author finds a way to add mobs in a solid way 17:05 VanessaE well not suggested but rather put 2-and-2 together 17:05 celeron55 everything it contains is of high quality 17:05 hmmmm speaking of mobs 17:05 hmmmm mobv2 is broken in 0.3.3 17:05 hmmmm thanks to an irrlicht interface change 17:05 celeron55 carbone is a bit like a lower quality less different version of voxelgarden with more content 17:06 Zeno` One of the best arguments against test-driven design is that all the things it's suppose to do can be in the actual code 17:06 Zeno` except assert() is redefined 17:06 Zeno` in mt 17:06 celeron55 skytest is awesome but the helicopter sucks due to the engine 17:06 celeron55 tutorial needs management functionality in menu 17:06 hmmmm assert() was made to be redefined 17:07 celeron55 none of this is very good 17:07 Zeno` hmmmm, it is not, however, meant to persist in release builds 17:07 hmmmm it doesn't 17:07 Zeno` it does in minetest 17:07 hmmmm if that's true, then it's a problem 17:08 celeron55 is everyone going to hate me if i will still say that subgames need to wait for the engine to catch up with them 17:09 hmmmm no, it's true 17:09 hmmmm but damn 17:09 hmmmm people want new features 17:09 hmmmm people want a good interface for their subgames 17:09 celeron55 we need to add features to the engine based on what subgames want to do 17:09 hmmmm people want minetest to be stable and backwards compatible 17:09 hmmmm people want better quality control 17:09 Zeno` hmmmm, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/debug.h#L80 17:10 Zeno` read and weep 17:10 hmmmm for the people to get what they want, minetest would need to have full time developers 17:10 VanessaE http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest-dev/2014-11-30#i_4043879 17:10 VanessaE that's enough. 17:11 celeron55 hmmmm: what i am saying is that everything else can have lower priority 17:11 Zeno` assert() is used incorrectly all throughout minetest, so there is this horrible hack there 17:11 hmmmm okay then 17:12 celeron55 i'm okay with changing debug.h's assert to not override the standard assert 17:12 hmmmm priority is a murky concept when you're dealing with people not on the hook to get this piece software working 17:12 hmmmm I'll certainly respect priorities though 17:12 celeron55 (and leave it there for where it's explicitly wanted) 17:12 hmmmm is there a list of subgame requests? 17:13 VanessaE https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=9103 17:14 celeron55 umm 17:14 celeron55 there is a thread on the forum but i cannot find itt 17:14 celeron55 it* 17:14 celeron55 about modder's requests directed to engine development 17:14 celeron55 where the hell is it? 17:15 Krock Already checked the forum "Inofficial Developement"? 17:16 celeron55 here i think; it has devolved into something not very useful though https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9179 17:16 celeron55 i'll consider starting to collect such a list myself 17:18 VanessaE this? https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=9709 17:22 VanessaE eh, beat me to it. 17:28 hmmmm different topic... what do you guys think about running abms in a coroutine so that we can lua_yield() after a certain timeout 17:28 hmmmm this way Server consumers don't get starved from a mod that's taking too long 17:29 VanessaE how much effort would it take? 17:29 Krock hmmmm, how long would be that timeout? 17:31 Krock #1987 any thoughts? I tested it and haven't got any problems with it 17:31 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1987 -- Change TileSpec::frames to be std::vector not std::map by gregorycu 17:31 Krock ..yet 17:32 Krock Yes, it could be labeled as feature.. 17:32 Krock but it would increase the speed (looking on his pictures) 17:33 Zeno` There is no problem with it as far as I can see and, perhaps, std::vector is the better type but profiling on Linux yields no difference 17:33 Zeno` That said, I would agree to it because std::vector seems the more appropriate data type 17:35 Zeno` and maybe it does help with MSVC build... I can't profile that 17:35 Krock hmmmm, If I may ask - What would you say about the PR above? 17:36 hmmmm it's fine but it can't get committed until after the release 17:36 Krock too bad :( 17:37 Zeno` why? 17:37 Zeno` it probably makes no difference with an optimised build 17:38 Zeno` it's better but not something that is "too bad" :( 17:45 Krock Zeno`, I'm not sure if it's the commit but I have about 10% less CPU usage now 17:45 VanessaE celeron55: here's an important one: 17:45 VanessaE https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=9709#p147812 17:46 VanessaE pretty much every complex mod out there aside from his list suffers this problem. 17:46 kaeza related to that ^, I've been thinking of a way to allow mods to override the description for a particular ItemStack 17:47 VanessaE yep, that too 17:48 kaeza I have a hacky proposal: if the ItemStack metadata is valid JSON, use some fields from it for special things 17:49 kaeza like "image", "description", etc, fields 17:49 kaeza if it can't be parsed as JSON, just do nothing 17:49 kaeza but... not sure if metadata is sent to client in the first place anyway :P 17:49 hmmmm okay in order to do that you need to read map metadata 17:50 hmmmm for every single node written to a mesh 17:50 hmmmm this is sllllow 17:50 kaeza "node"? 17:50 hmmmm "node" 17:50 hmmmm ahh itemstack 17:51 kaeza yeah 17:51 VanessaE well there is still that old meta-set-nodedef branch...... ;) 17:51 hmmmm ha ha ... 17:51 VanessaE (it could be used to solve this issue) 17:51 hmmmm nope 17:51 VanessaE I never said it was efficient ;) 17:55 kaeza how to translate from node meta to stack meta is left up to mods, and the JSON parsing and interpretation of fields is done fully client-side 17:56 kaeza and since stack meta is just a regular string it should be backwards compatible 18:00 VanessaE and here's another one: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=9709&start=50#p150944 18:00 VanessaE (summary: liquids should just stop flowing at all when they hit CONTENT_IGNORE, rather than trying to spread) 18:08 VanessaE https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=9709&start=75#p155705 18:09 VanessaE I've noticed that middle-click-to-craft-10 slowness as well, even in singleplayer 18:10 VanessaE celeron55: you wanted to make a list, this thread (same one I pointed you at) does have some good stuff. 18:26 VanessaE bbl 18:40 kaeza the middle-click-to-craft-10 issue is because the client or server makes 10 "pick one" requests instead of a single "pick ten" request 18:42 jin_xi srs 18:43 kaeza or at least, the log outputs 10 times "player foo crafted bar:baz 1", instead of a single "player foo crafted bar:baz 10" 18:44 kaeza each "request" possibly has to make a slow look up with get_craft_recipe or whatever 19:31 hmmmm hey celeron 19:31 hmmmm if you're around I was just wondering what the rationale was behind the restrictions on PseudoRandom() 19:31 hmmmm why does min and max have to be within a certain range? 19:32 celeron55 it happens to have a rather limited implementation 19:32 hmmmm but what was the whole purpose 19:32 hmmmm did you just decide to add some arbitrary restrictions to it 19:32 celeron55 what restriction exactly? 19:32 hmmmm if(max-min > 32768/10) 19:33 celeron55 if you have eg. max-min=25000, you get much higher chance of the result being <7768 or something than any other value 19:33 celeron55 because it's just % basically 19:35 hmmmm huh 19:35 celeron55 it's embarrassingly bad really but this is again one of those things that has worked well enough that nobody noticed it wasn't really up to scratch 19:35 hmmmm it's really bad actually 19:35 celeron55 and now people rely on it giving the same values 19:35 celeron55 (well, some people; not that many i would guess) 19:35 hmmmm for example blockseeds are always even or odd depending on the least significant bit of the map seed 19:36 hmmmm so anything that does range(0,1) == 0 or whatever would always fail for a specific map 19:36 hmmmm or always be true for a different map 19:36 hmmmm a better random is definitely needed, but i don't completely understand what you mean by this 19:36 hmmmm [02:33 PM] if you have eg. max-min=25000, you get much higher chance of the result being <7768 or something than any other value 19:36 hmmmm did you find that out via experimentation? 19:37 celeron55 it randomizes a value that has a proper distribution between 0 and 32767 or something like that (i assume here that it does exactly this, it might differ a bit) 19:37 celeron55 so then when you feed that value to %25000, the distribution shifts 19:38 hmmmm ahhh 19:38 hmmmm i get what you mean 19:38 celeron55 you no longer get >25000 values and they add to the <7000 values 19:38 hmmmm the proper way to do this would not to use modulo but rather floating point division by the max 19:38 hmmmm yes I totally understand 19:38 hmmmm that is a rather obvious consequence of using such a mechanism 19:38 celeron55 well to begin with, i think it should generate enough bits to not fall into this problem at all no matter how it does it 19:39 hmmmm (float)next() / RAND_MAX) * (max - min) + min 19:39 celeron55 that would then consistently prefer some values over others still 19:39 hmmmm it generates 32 bits but only uses the lower 16 of them 19:39 hmmmm how would that? 19:39 celeron55 it should just detect that it needs a large value and do the equivalent of rand()< The only game that should be officially included is minetest_game and the user must me told about choice and alternatives 21:56 Megaf_ kaeza: the one that is included is minimal 22:15 celeron55 informing the user would be good indeed 22:15 celeron55 doing it in the current menu or game would be very clumsy 22:15 celeron55 this stuff simply isn't up to scratch now 22:16 celeron55 i guess i will personally implement this for 0.4.12 22:16 celeron55 everyone else already had the chance, now i decide how it's done 8) 22:18 celeron55 i for sure hope implementing it isn't worse than with irrlicht's native UI system 22:25 hmmmm wow 22:25 hmmmm it is so frustrating how sensitive noise parameters are 22:28 hmmmm tada! http://i.imgur.com/Fu7YJEx.png ore veins 23:10 luizrpgluiz hi 23:31 luizrpgluiz when will end the test session of the new version of minetest? 23:36 kaeza I published an Inno Setup script to make an installer a while ago; I can modify it so it installs only minimal, and optionally download and install other games as well. 23:37 kaeza FWIW, CMake has the capability to create installers with such a feature too 23:37 kaeza Inno Setup is Windows-only I think; not sure about CMake-made installers 23:40 kaeza well, for Linux it doesn't matter anyway, as that work is carried by the relevant package manager 23:58 celeron55 i don't think any distributions have minetest and games listed separately though 23:58 celeron55 at lest fedora and ubuntu don't 23:58 celeron55 least*