Time Nick Message 05:33 hmmmm ugh 05:33 hmmmm you know what, I'm going to unify name resolution 05:33 hmmmm the way it happens right now works but it's sloppy 05:34 hmmmm have your data structure (biomes, decorations, schematics, whatever have you) include a std::string or a list of strings of the node name, then on emerge manager init, resolve them to the ID for each and every instance of these resources 05:36 hmmmm i'm going to expand INodeDef to keep a list of strings to content_t *s, or std::vector *s (if the node string name represents a group) and when the node registration finishes, that will carry out the assignments 05:37 hmmmm this way, everything is unified, saves on the potentially huge space of extra std::strings that don't need to be maintained after name resolution, etc. 05:43 VanessaE um guys? why are there still old "minetestc55" builds on the "daily-builds" and "stable" PPAs? 05:43 VanessaE that build is horribly outdated 05:48 hmmmm because obvs older software == more stable 05:52 VanessaE older all the way back to Ubuntu Natty though? eh... 05:57 Zeno` I'm having a problem: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1707 05:58 Zeno` I cannot *nicely* check that the destination slot is either contains the same item or is empty and not move(drop) if that's not true 05:59 Zeno` mainly because I'd have to duplicate the first 6 lines in the next conditional or make those lines a function or do something else kind of messy (I think) 06:02 Zeno` I suppose I could add another bool 06:18 hmmmm wouldn't the modulo logic you already have be better expressed as a bool like "m_drop_item" 06:18 hmmmm and then you just do m_drop_item = !m_drop_item instead of m_lmouse_move_mode = (m_lmouse_move_mode + 1) % 2; 06:19 hmmmm and you say "first 6 lines in the next conditional" - where is that you're talking about? 06:20 Zeno` Yeah I originally kept track of button releases as well, so maybe a bool with ! as you suggested is fine 06:21 Zeno` in the main code (full file) 06:21 Zeno` lines... 06:21 Zeno` 3146-3151 06:22 Zeno` I think 06:23 kahrl or even, instead of a bool, a set of slots that the item has already been dropped into 06:23 kahrl oh nvm 06:23 hmmmm hmm 06:23 kahrl thought you could initialize that with the initial slot but that would be ugly 06:23 hmmmm Zeno`, code it up the 'messy' way and we'll see what we could do from there 06:23 Zeno` kahrl, I was trying to mimic the MC behaviour where you can right drag around to evenly distribute the item but NOT swap with an item in a slot that contains a different item 06:24 Zeno` ok I'll do it the messy way 06:24 hmmmm I personally like the MC behavior 06:24 hmmmm so +1 for that 06:24 hmmmm you have my le upboat 06:24 kahrl Zeno`: oh, in that case add the set I mentioned (maybe in addition to the bool/int/whatever) 06:24 kahrl so every slot can only be dropped into once 06:24 kahrl (that's how it works in MC) 06:26 Zeno` I need to find the video someone showed me in that case :) searching logs 06:27 kahrl I really think at this point the inventory handling in GUIFormSpecMenu has become way too overgrown 06:27 kahrl it has been like that for a long while already 06:27 kahrl it should be split into a separate class 06:28 kahrl (but don't bother about it in this fix) 06:28 hmmmm guys, what's the consensus on legacy hard-coded ABMs 06:28 hmmmm never going to happen again? 06:28 hmmmm what is the performance impact of growing grass from within Lua? 06:28 VanessaE hard-coded in the engine? FUCK no 06:29 hmmmm some things like growing grass might be better off in the engine though. 06:29 VanessaE I have enough of an issue with ABMs in the default game; growing grass from Lua isn't that big of an impact. 06:29 hmmmm that's not an issue 06:30 hmmmm you could add a tiny knob in lua to turn that on or off 06:30 VanessaE after all, you only hit that kind of code once every, what, 5 or 10 minutes? 06:30 hmmmm that code gets hit very often 06:30 VanessaE well wait, you mean the dirt <-> grass ABM? 06:30 hmmmm yes 06:30 VanessaE eh 06:30 VanessaE that's not a big deal 06:30 hmmmm but how do you knooow that 06:31 VanessaE because Nostalgia game manages it without even a hiccup 06:31 hmmmm erm.. whatever 06:31 kahrl the probability is high enough that I don't see a problem 06:31 kahrl err *low 06:31 VanessaE I had to backport that change when that ABM was moved out of the engine and I saw no performance impact at all 06:32 Zeno` kahrl, I was just talking about that to someone else heh 06:33 hmmmm we want to stay envlocked for as short a period time as possible 06:33 hmmmm going back and forth from native to lua thousands of times over and over is a hit 06:33 hmmmm one that's definitely not necessary 06:34 hmmmm you say it's not much of a hit, but have you tried to quantify it at all? 06:34 hmmmm if we can save 10ms, that's awesome 06:34 Zeno` messy way is pushed (I hate it) 06:34 Zeno` I doubt it behaves exactly like MC, but it makes sense (well, to me anyway) 06:35 VanessaE hmmmm: at the time, of course, there was no profiler, so I only had my CPU stats page to go by ( http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/stats.html ). Nostalgia was a very busy server then, and it barely registered on the CPU graph. 06:35 kahrl hmmmm: would it be possible to only do the C++ -> Lua transition once for all registered ABMs? (per abmhandler.apply) 06:36 hmmmm kahrl: wait, is that how it works?? 06:36 kahrl hmmmm: not at the moment I don't think 06:36 hmmmm yeah I figured as much 06:36 hmmmm ugh 06:36 kahrl hmmmm: but it could be done 06:36 hmmmm UGHH 06:36 hmmmm let's do it 06:36 hmmmm as if the server step isn't slow enough already 06:39 kahrl it was done this way so that the C++ code can ensure a later called ABM still has satisfied conditions after the earlier ones ran 06:39 kahrl wonder how much would break if that wasn't done 06:41 hmmmm 'satisfied conditions'? 06:42 kahrl i.e. node is in nodenames, certain neighbors exist, etc. 06:43 kahrl oh and it recalculates the active object count if an ABM added any 06:44 hmmmm yeah I saw that much 06:45 hmmmm well look, ABMHandler's ctor calculates all the chances and trigger contents there 06:46 hmmmm so aside from the active object count, it can't possibly do what you said it did before 06:46 hmmmm the only thing it does in between ABMs is check the active object count 06:47 hmmmm can that piece of logic be moved outside of each ABM call for that block?? 06:48 kahrl oh you're right, it doesn't handle every case 06:48 kahrl it rechecks the content after moving on to the next node though 06:48 kahrl (the outer loop in apply()) 06:49 kahrl but if a node changes and there are more ABMs for that node, it only rechecks the neighbors 06:49 kahrl so I guess ABMs already have to deal with the chance the node might actually not be the node they were assuming it was 06:50 kahrl how many ABMs actually use active_object_count/_wider? 06:51 hmmmm not many... i can't think of any practical utility for that 06:51 kahrl perhaps it could be removed entirely 06:51 VanessaE kahrl: in my ABMs I've never actually done that unless I was checking for more than one kind of node 06:51 VanessaE (chance of a node not being the one it's assumed to be) 06:52 VanessaE I've never used the *object* features myself, but I'll bet sapier does. 06:52 kahrl VanessaE: in most cases the player wouldn't notice anyway (as the two ABMs happen in the same server step, so it wouldn't matter) 06:52 hmmmm hmmmmmmmmmmmm. 06:52 kahrl VanessaE: but it could break something if node metadata is involved 06:52 hmmmm kahrl, I'm thinking of a situation where two different mods would use something like a sapling 06:52 hmmmm one would grow it into a certain kind of tree and one into another 06:52 kahrl hmmmm: yeah, that too 06:52 hmmmm well the result would be a hybrid 06:54 hmmmm this is tough 06:55 kahrl VanessaE: I think mobf uses way more complicated algorithms than checking active_object_count 06:56 VanessaE kahrl: nope 06:56 VanessaE he uses it 06:56 hmmmm so I don't get it 06:56 kahrl hrm 06:57 VanessaE hm, seems I use it in moretrees' leaf decay too 06:57 kahrl simplemobs does some stuff with it too 06:57 VanessaE (likely as result of some copypasta from default) 06:57 hmmmm if mods already assume their ABM nodes are really the ones they wanted, and we don't see breakage already, then what would the harm be? 06:58 VanessaE vanessa@rainbird:~/Minetest-related/mods$ grep -ir active_object_count *|wc 06:58 VanessaE 174 1216 20940 06:58 VanessaE I'm sure most of those are false positives. 06:58 kahrl VargaD: add a grep -v function in there 06:58 VanessaE heh 06:58 kahrl oops, sorry 06:58 kahrl VanessaE: * 06:59 VargaD hi 06:59 kahrl hi ;) 07:00 VanessaE hmmmm: I can't say that there'd be any; don't most mods assume their ABMs will execute more or less independently? 07:00 hmmmm they do yeah 07:01 hmmmm no mod has a guarantee that another mod didn't change their node that had an ABM triggered on it. no mod has a guarantee that another ABM didn't change a neighboring node 07:01 hmmmm well, the latter assertion isn't true right now, but i'd like that to be true so we could just do one lua call for every abm 07:01 VanessaE that's what I figured. so then to fix it (so to speak) so that that assumption is in fact enforced shouldn't break anything at all 07:02 VanessaE if some modder plays off the idea that their ABMs will magically occur at just the right moment, they're insane 07:03 hmmmm indeed 07:03 hmmmm these kinds of glitches that the way ABMs work right now to prevent are practically unavoidable 07:03 hmmmm hrmm it's 3 AM 07:03 hmmmm lol I thought I was going to get a commit in! 07:03 hmmmm guess not 07:03 kahrl heh 07:04 VanessaE ok, ... 07:04 VanessaE kahrl: he DOES use active_object_count. 07:04 kahrl VanessaE: who's he? 07:04 VanessaE sapier I mean. 07:04 VanessaE just in one place though, in tracing.lua 07:04 kahrl hmm ok 07:05 hmmmm guys, what do you think about moving the declaration for CNodeDefManager out into nodedef.h 07:05 kahrl hmmmm: why? 07:06 hmmmm reduce a level of indentation 07:06 hmmmm cleaner 07:06 kahrl it does expose implementation details though and slows compilation 07:07 hmmmm well 07:07 Zeno` it only seems to be used in nodedef.cpp 07:07 hmmmm I'll keep it in 07:07 VanessaE kahrl: 12 pseudo-legit refs in my archives, after filtering out "action = function". 07:07 hmmmm I get the whole opaque implementation of an abstract interface idea but I don't think it matters that much in practicality 07:08 hmmmm it'd be a huge improvement to just get rid of that extra indentation by separating the method definitions and the class declaration, though. 07:08 kahrl hmmmm: you could also split class declaration and function implementation but keep them both in nodedef.cpp 07:08 Zeno` Well I pass by pointer or reference 99% of the time so I forward decls work fine. I think it's pretty much a muchness though 07:08 hmmmm yeah that's just what i said. 07:08 kahrl hmmmm: oh, thought you still meant moving it to nodedef.h 07:10 kahrl 86a3c8ce56 was a recent commit that did something like that 07:19 hmmmm am I the only one who doesn't like crap like this 07:19 hmmmm if (f->name == "default:water_source") 07:19 hmmmm is_water_surface = true; 07:20 VanessaE oh no.. 07:20 VanessaE where are you finding that? 07:20 hmmmm that is a target for api-ization once client side lua becomes a thing 07:20 hmmmm VanessaE, CNodeDefManager::updateTextures() 07:21 hmmmm it looks like the work of RBA 07:21 hmmmm I don't blame him though, it's the least bad option available currently 07:21 VanessaE I wouldn't touch that if I were you, he'll kick your ass ;) 07:23 VanessaE hm 07:24 VanessaE yeah. I haven't seen the code he's working on but if I guess it right, that glistening surface shader is gonna end up messing with this 07:24 VanessaE he wants to keep the water node name hard-coded :-/ 07:25 VanessaE *looks at clock* 07:25 * VanessaE pokes RealBadAngel 07:25 VanessaE and no, I don't like it either. 07:25 VanessaE it should depend on some kind of flag/field in the node def 07:26 hmmmm like I said though, it's the least bad option 07:26 hmmmm given the restrictions and so on 07:26 hmmmm but yeah. 07:26 VanessaE I suppose so 07:26 hmmmm client side lua couldn't come fast enough. 07:26 hmmmm people would be able to distribute shaders with their mods 07:26 VanessaE I guess it could be worse: it could be using a content ID instead. 07:26 hmmmm so their special node can ACTUALLY be special 07:27 VanessaE now THAT's a good idea 07:27 hmmmm ehe 07:27 hmmmm all this is a lot of talk though 07:27 VanessaE talking helps plan things out :) 07:27 hmmmm I'd be able to do half this crap if I take a vacation from work 07:27 kahrl I don't know if client side lua would actually mean mod-defined shaders... 07:27 hmmmm or maybe I just need to double down on coding 07:28 kahrl remember all the security issues webgl had? 07:28 hmmmm yeah 07:28 kahrl and still has probably 07:28 VanessaE kahrl: good point. a shader API then? 07:28 kahrl VanessaE: maybe 07:28 hmmmm that was fixed up at the driver level though 07:28 VanessaE I mean, a sandbox, you know 07:29 hmmmm I don't think web browsers did anything to secure webgl 07:29 kahrl http://security.stackexchange.com/questions/13799/is-webgl-a-security-concern#13840 07:29 hmmmm it's certainly a DoS concern 07:29 kahrl that post is a bit old though 07:30 hmmmm yeah but 07:30 hmmmm mods can't steal information this way because it wouldn't be able to recontact the server with the data 07:30 hmmmm that'd be very non-trivial, anyway 07:31 hmmmm also minetest servers have a slightly higher degree of trust than a random webserver 07:32 VanessaE hmmmm: that's debatable ;) but your point stands 09:03 jin_xi shader security concerns? im curious, because thats what i did (local hack): make shaders per nodedef passable/possible 09:05 BlockMen going to merge https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1694 in an hour 09:06 kahrl BlockMen: have you settled the disagreement with SN over whether to remove the preload items cb? 09:07 kahrl jin_xi: well, if it's a local hack then it's not much of a security concern :3 09:08 BlockMen kahrl, he said "Nah, that's O.K." 09:10 kahrl I see it now 09:10 jin_xi surely not. its just never ocurred to me that security is an issue with shaders 09:10 jin_xi or can be 09:11 kahrl BlockMen: is the case in nodedef supposed to fall-through? 09:11 kahrl BlockMen: (if it is, it definitely needs a comment) 09:12 kahrl I mean this: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1694/files#diff-70868aa6d6b96c0c1623c761500d23c4R670 09:14 BlockMen oh, i missid adding content_mapbloc.cpp 09:14 BlockMen its handled like with allfaces_optional 09:15 Zeno` if that's the case that's not what it's doing 09:18 BlockMen kahrl, updated 09:22 kahrl Zeno`: what do you mean? 09:23 kahrl BlockMen: connected_glass should be in minetest.conf.example 09:28 BlockMen kahrl, added 09:29 kahrl BlockMen: I think it's good to go then 09:29 kahrl merge it 09:30 Zeno` Is is being handled by NDT_ALLFACES or NDT_ALLFACES_OPTIONAL ? 09:30 kahrl BlockMen: wait, the case is back to fall-through 09:31 BlockMen Zeno`, no? 09:31 BlockMen what make you think that? 09:31 Zeno` because of the missing break; it looks like it's handled by NDT_ALLFACES 09:33 Zeno` (handled in part) 09:33 BlockMen wtf, indeed 09:34 kahrl huh, I thought for sure you fixed it in the earlier update 09:34 kahrl am I just imagining things? 09:35 BlockMen maybe it got lost with a rebase i did 09:35 BlockMen idk 09:36 BlockMen ok, everyone look again plz 09:36 BlockMen updated 09:37 kahrl BlockMen: looks good now 09:41 BlockMen im waiting for travis and then push it 10:04 Zeno` going to merge https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1707 in one hour 10:40 ninnghazad anybody else noticed that minetest.* functions that rely on getScriptApiBase do not work properly when called from a coroutine within lua? wondering if this might be intentional 10:40 ninnghazad getScriptApiBase returns a different stack (?) when called from a coroutine, and that seems to mess up the functions, as they read/write on the wrong indices then. 10:42 RealBadAngel BlockMen, for glasslike framed you will need different glass textures 10:42 RealBadAngel its frames are regular 3d boxes 10:42 RealBadAngel holes there looks terrible 10:43 BlockMen RealBadAngel, imo not but if more will complain it will be changed 10:43 RealBadAngel i suggest using wood and obsidian textures for frames and separate glass surface texture 10:44 RealBadAngel like so: https://github.com/minetest-technic/framedglass/blob/master/init.lua#L39 10:46 RealBadAngel BlockMen, theres already an issue posted bout it 10:46 RealBadAngel https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1695 10:47 BlockMen RealBadAngel, he claims it should be rotated different 10:47 BlockMen not that there are gaps at all 10:49 RealBadAngel hes wrong 10:49 RealBadAngel i just closed that issue 10:49 RealBadAngel box is solid. needs separate texture, so you do too 10:54 RealBadAngel wise is to bound wood and obsidian textures to it, when user will modify textures for them corresponding glass will also change 10:55 RealBadAngel and btw, it cannot be rotated different way 10:56 RealBadAngel rotations are the same for all the boxes 10:56 RealBadAngel and no matter how you will rotate it there will always be a gap 10:57 RealBadAngel texture is made so 10:57 BlockMen ^ you should add that to the closed issue ;) 10:58 RealBadAngel adding irc log link 11:00 BlockMen k 11:09 RealBadAngel BlockMen, but imho you should change game usage of it 11:09 RealBadAngel the way i mentioned already 11:10 RealBadAngel in my mod you can find rdy textures 11:13 Zeno` Ok, I am now merging the commit 11:13 RealBadAngel otherwise some1 is gonna open similar issue again 11:13 Zeno` Ok, I think I found a problem 11:14 Zeno` I don't have permissions 11:14 RealBadAngel Zeno`, what commit? 11:14 Zeno` 1707 11:15 Zeno` and yes there is a yucky part in that... but hmmmm suggested I do it the yucky way 11:15 ninnghazad create #1709 for the problem with coroutines/minetest.*/stack 11:17 RealBadAngel Zeno`, how it behaves when both stacks sum is greater than max ammount? 11:17 Zeno` it should behave the same way as before 11:18 Zeno` I didn't change that logic 11:20 RealBadAngel if so im ok with it 11:26 RealBadAngel also im about to close all open issues/prs made by me 11:27 RealBadAngel all the code will be aviable only in my fork 11:27 RealBadAngel mt is free to take it 11:27 RealBadAngel but i wont be making any single pr again 11:28 RealBadAngel im done with that 11:29 kahrl 2015: every (ex-)minetest dev has their own fork 11:29 Amaz XD 11:30 RealBadAngel whatever. making your code into core takes more time than coding actually 11:30 RealBadAngel and is extremaly frustrating 11:30 kahrl eh, mine take months to be merged as well but I don't rage quit 11:30 RealBadAngel im not quitting 11:30 kahrl essentially you are 11:31 Zeno` I don't think it would be good losing your PRs 11:31 Zeno` sigh 11:31 RealBadAngel if you will decide to pick up my code i can help 11:31 RealBadAngel but i wont be begging for it anymore 11:32 ninnghazad understandable 11:32 kahrl well, I don't beg for mine getting merged either 11:33 RealBadAngel i just want my own code be up to date all the time 11:33 RealBadAngel without constanly need for rebasing 11:33 RealBadAngel which started to be just sick 11:34 kahrl if you intend to merge changes from minetest you will have to fix those conflicts instead 11:34 kahrl so it doesn't really help 11:34 RealBadAngel there are no conflicts here 11:34 kahrl so what's the problem with rebasing? 11:35 RealBadAngel i am coding new things based on previous changes 11:35 kahrl just say in the pull request, "depends on #xxxx" 11:36 RealBadAngel mapblock mesh in its current state is unusable for me 11:36 kahrl I've done that often actually and it worked out fine 11:37 RealBadAngel i tried to change it step by step 11:37 RealBadAngel but all my changes are blocked 11:38 kahrl blocked? more like no one's around I think 11:38 RealBadAngel for weeks? 11:38 kahrl yeah, I don't know why 11:38 RealBadAngel lately i had 2 weeks off 11:38 kahrl I suggested the weekly meeting but it never happened 11:39 RealBadAngel planned to spent that time for coding 11:39 RealBadAngel i havent managed to get a single pull merged 11:40 RealBadAngel yesterday i was just pissed off 11:40 RealBadAngel today im calm 11:40 RealBadAngel but im moving with my toys 11:41 kahrl I do agree that someone else should client/audiovisuals maintainer because c55 is barely around these days 11:41 kahrl should be* 11:42 RealBadAngel nobody is takin care of it 11:42 RealBadAngel in fact the project is slowly dying 11:42 kahrl open an issue about it on github and ping every dev to comment on it 11:43 RealBadAngel theres no progress at all 11:43 RealBadAngel and all the good things are shut down at pr stage 11:44 kahrl judging by the page hits recently posted I don't think it's dying 11:45 RealBadAngel you think prs changing spelling or mouse behaviour are progress? 11:45 kahrl why not? 11:45 RealBadAngel its stagnation 11:46 kahrl polishing a game is actually often more work than coding the first prototype 11:46 kahrl but necessary to make a good game (or engine) 11:46 RealBadAngel ofc but only when actively coding 11:46 RealBadAngel otherwise we end up like mojang did 11:47 kahrl I don't think microsoft would be interested in us 11:47 RealBadAngel with fireworks as new shiny feature 11:47 RealBadAngel or new kind of wood 11:47 RealBadAngel its called dead end elsewhere 11:48 proller changing fetchresult to fetch_result was very important feature. 11:49 kahrl if the engine is already powerful enough that good progress (in your sense) can be done in mods, I don't see the problem 11:50 RealBadAngel kahrl, its not 11:52 kahrl I see at least a couple dozen new mods release in the last few weeks 11:53 kahrl of course, if you see any individual mod as progress is up to you, but those are the numbers 11:53 RealBadAngel thats just an effect of mojangs actions 11:54 RealBadAngel for a short period of time we will be able to see folks trying to contribute 11:54 RealBadAngel but it will end as usual 11:54 kahrl and your fork will help this how? 11:55 RealBadAngel i just want to code, its my hobby 11:55 RealBadAngel and i will do that all the time 11:55 RealBadAngel i just dont want anymore crawling and begging for it 11:55 RealBadAngel its pointless 11:56 kahrl again, just don't beg for it and it will be less frustrating 11:56 RealBadAngel its gone too far 11:57 kahrl RealBadAngel: part of the problem is that there are 91 open pulls requests. how are devs supposed to randomly pick yours to comment on? 11:57 kahrl pull* 11:58 RealBadAngel just grep the logs and see how many times i asked for comments on my pulls 12:00 ninnghazad still, having to look at large pulls is time-consuming at least. and the guys having to do those probably also just want to code, and not have to read other people's code. 12:01 ninnghazad i'd say don't take it personally 12:01 RealBadAngel so the development style just suck balls 12:01 kahrl RealBadAngel: how often do you merge pull requests of others? 12:02 kahrl I don't keep logs but I don't think I've often seen you do that 12:02 kahrl so look in the mirror please 12:02 RealBadAngel actually i do that quite often 12:02 RealBadAngel ask zefram_fysh 12:03 RealBadAngel hes a main contributor for technic last days 12:03 jp_ RBA : sent you a PM 12:04 RealBadAngel i just trust him and his code 12:04 RealBadAngel and hes doing great job 12:04 kahrl RealBadAngel: well, I'm not talking about technic 12:04 RealBadAngel its the same 12:05 RealBadAngel technic mod is one of the biggest mods for mt out there 12:05 ninnghazad when he breaks something that you've missed to spot, and BILLIONS of angry miners come at you for it, you shall change your mind! 12:06 RealBadAngel thats the point 12:06 ninnghazad all like "oh noes, why didn't i spend 27 hours checking those PRs..." 12:06 RealBadAngel code needs to be verified 12:06 RealBadAngel by players 12:06 ninnghazad hm, well... no... yes... also maybe but not primarily i think 12:06 RealBadAngel our current model of development seems to forget bout it 12:07 RealBadAngel whats important for devs are whitespaces 12:07 RealBadAngel or style issues 12:07 RealBadAngel but not the features 12:07 proller and hyper compare in player save 12:07 ninnghazad well that sucks. sounds like coding @work ;) 12:08 kahrl so me complaining about a missing "break;" is about style issues? 12:08 RealBadAngel lol 12:08 RealBadAngel you know what im talkin about 12:09 RealBadAngel and missing break is not a style issue but a bug 12:09 RealBadAngel lately i pointed missing break too 12:10 RealBadAngel in firelike drawtype 12:18 ninnghazad which PR are you waiting on btw? 12:20 blaaaaargh since we are talking about drawtypes, I wish modders could specify per-cuboid textures for nodeboxes 12:21 kahrl https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1710 see, I even wrote this issue for you RBA 12:21 kahrl (any dev welcome to comment on that.) 12:21 kahrl anyone else of course too 12:22 Zeno` I'd support RBA 12:22 Amaz ↑ 12:23 RealBadAngel blaaaaargh, no need for that with mesh drawtype aviable 12:24 RealBadAngel that makes literally nodebox drawtype obsolete 12:28 kaeza probably. nodeboxes are easier to "edit" though, if you don't have experience with 3D modelling software 12:28 Amaz ↑ 12:29 kahrl fun fact: we could simply stop supporting nodebox 12:29 kahrl "nodebox -- See below. EXPERIMENTAL" -- lua_api.txt, Oct 2014 12:29 kahrl "Please note that this is still experimental, and may be incompatibly changed in the future." 12:30 kaeza or simply s/EXPERIMENTAL//, etc 12:30 kaeza it has been "EXPERIMENTAL" for what, 2 years? 12:30 kahrl heh yeah I didn't think of that 12:30 kahrl yes, sounds right 15:02 Megaf_ kahrl: Are you there? 15:04 Megaf_ kahrl: are do you mean by Build taker? 15:07 Megaf_ so, is there a plan to make oficial builds? 15:07 Amaz Official builds for what? 15:07 Megaf_ ^ sfan5 15:08 sfan5 Megaf_: for what? 15:08 Megaf_ https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1710#issue-44679910 15:08 Megaf_ Item 4 15:08 sfan5 Megaf_: "Build" is the building system, not minetest builds 15:08 sfan5 Megaf_: btw: I already do the MinGW release builds 15:08 sfan5 the msvc ones are done by BlockMen 15:09 Megaf_ oh, I see 15:09 Megaf_ I could make minetest builds... 15:10 sfan5 why would you? 15:10 sfan5 there are enough 15:10 sfan5 for windows at least 15:14 Megaf_ I'd like to make a generic Linux build 15:15 sfan5 then make a static build 15:15 sfan5 that however doesn't work because some glibc functions need that version of glibc at runtime 15:16 sfan5 "warning: Using 'getaddrinfo' in statically linked applications requires at runtime the shared libraries from the glibc version used for linking" 16:32 BlockMen sfan5, you need to update your builds. -> https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=156409#p156409 16:32 kaeza I noticed there's no documentation about the "long" version of `drop` in lua_api.txt 16:32 kaeza https://github.com/kaeza/minetest/commit/c68c83a5f8398ed8168bc73a7b6848a9f429e804 16:40 kaeza eh this one instead: https://github.com/kaeza/minetest/commit/44b10eb2cb6452b633f20e6e804f62ef702987a9 16:44 BlockMen kaeza, s/same node/node itself ? 16:46 sfan5 BlockMen: do you manually add minetest_game to your builds? 16:47 BlockMen yes 16:47 sfan5 BlockMen: I just use the default install scripts 16:47 diemartin BlockMen, maybe 16:47 sfan5 that means jungles are broken for everyone that uses "make install" 16:47 BlockMen seems it misses something then? 16:48 sfan5 apparently 16:49 RealBadAngel string of the drop cannot hold the ammount? 16:50 RealBadAngel im not sure but i think it was able to do so 16:51 PilzAdam sfan5, BlockMen, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/CMakeLists.txt#L150-153 16:53 sfan5 who had that stupid idea? 16:53 sfan5 just install the whole game folder 16:55 diemartin RealBadAngel, looks like nope 16:55 RealBadAngel Hi everyone I'm having trouble with mods not showing in games, hjow do I get then working? 16:56 RealBadAngel disabling mods by default is not a good idea 17:00 PilzAdam RealBadAngel, enabling mods by default isn't either; it would apply to already created worlds without the user noticing it 17:00 PilzAdam a (IMO) good solution would be to show the "Configure" dialog in (or after) world creation 17:00 BlockMen or enabled mods by default for new worlds 17:00 BlockMen *only 17:01 PilzAdam BlockMen, if you do that then please add a setting to disable that behavior; I have tons of mods and don't want to have them all enabled by default 17:02 BlockMen PilzAdam, it was just a suggestion... ;) 17:03 PilzAdam world creation could be "1) Choose a name, 2) Choose a game, 3) Choose a seed and mapgen (maybe games should be able to skip that step?), 4) Choose mods" 17:07 BlockMen ^ should games also be albe to skip that aswell? 17:07 BlockMen (4) 17:08 PilzAdam maybe mods could hint which games they work well on; and then theres a checkbox in 4) that says "Show mods that may not work with this game" 17:10 BlockMen no, not another cb 17:10 BlockMen the configuration menu is already messy 17:10 PilzAdam like "suggested_games = minetest_game, carbone" or "suggested_game = *all" in game.conf 17:12 PilzAdam BlockMen, redesign it then 17:12 BlockMen lel 17:13 PilzAdam don't limit your ideas to the current state ;-) 17:14 BlockMen im just try to limit making things worse ;) 17:16 PilzAdam there are only a few things that are worse than the current menu 17:19 BlockMen PilzAdam, everything can get worse 17:20 BlockMen but back to serious dev talk 17:20 BlockMen comments on https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1690? 17:22 PilzAdam 1) why is it builtin? 2) I would prefer a /die with an extra priv 17:23 BlockMen why an extra priv for dying? 17:24 BlockMen you can also jump 3 times from a high place (in most cases) 17:24 PilzAdam imagine a grief_penalty mod that puts you in a 1x2x1 prison 17:26 BlockMen ok, but then the interact priv should be enough 17:57 BlockMen is that ok? https://github.com/BlockMen/minetest/commit/835f2fa84a9c62ef28e5b5969ccad44c2f898433 18:51 Megaf_ PilzAdam: we have a jail in my server 18:51 Megaf_ made out of unbreakable nodes 18:52 Megaf_ and even if the user manages to escape it will teleport it back 18:52 Megaf_ PilzAdam: maybe this grief mod could use something like it 20:20 hmmmm http://www.wired.com/2014/10/code-published-for-unfixable-usb-attack/ 20:27 ShadowNinja diemartin: The -- <...> should be ommited, simce it's not in a list and there's nothing obvious to go there. Also, lua_api.txt isn't meant to be valid Lua, so you can remove the block comment notation. Otherwise seems good. 20:29 diemartin ShadowNinja, https://github.com/kaeza/minetest/commit/69476475a419777f9f6ed267ab4f4b553b6e0f44 20:30 diemartin actually, umm 20:30 ShadowNinja diemartin: Missing comma after items.items list, and spaces in {}. I can fix that locally though. hmmmm: Any comments? 20:31 hmmmm huh? I'm confused 20:32 shadowzone So did the vote to ban/quiet prolloer go or not? 20:34 diemartin ShadowNinja, fixed https://github.com/kaeza/minetest/commit/b8f9a98c61fe9c95daf333dbc3011ccfcccc14f5 (forgot a block) 20:34 shadowzone *proller 20:34 ShadowNinja shadowzone: Nothing's been done yet. I'll check #minetest and notify ops here though. 20:34 shadowzone Okay. 20:35 ShadowNinja hmmmm: kaeza's patch ^. 20:35 Megaf_ ShadowNinja: the error message is as helpful as 99,9% of all minetest error messages! 20:35 Megaf_ https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1697#issuecomment-57692540 20:35 Megaf_ I a system admin, not a bloody developer 20:35 Megaf_ system admins should be given meaning full error messages 20:36 Megaf_ not error messages that even developers can understand themselves 20:36 Megaf_ That's the first thing that should change in minetest 20:36 Megaf_ s/meaning full/meaningful 20:37 ShadowNinja Megaf_: I know that it's an error with memory management, but I need valgrind or GDB for details. 20:39 hmmmm ah 20:40 hmmmm no, no comments shadowninja 20:40 hmmmm LGTM 20:46 ShadowNinja diemartin: Actually it's already mentioned, see line 2424. I'll replace it though. 20:47 Megaf_ Is this a bug on my mod, on pipeworks or a minetest bug? https://github.com/Megaf/more_chests/commit/4aa321957497512ea012736aa2b594818d328dd4 20:47 diemartin ShadowNinja, oh, didn't notice that one 20:47 ShadowNinja diemartin: (I'm fixing it locally) 20:47 diemartin ok, thanks 20:50 ShadowNinja kaeza: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/5baf379f40537060a1d5111905c7702d4563ee5c 20:51 kaeza and even with a better commit message :D 20:52 Megaf_ VanessaE: https://github.com/VanessaE/pipeworks/issues/74#issuecomment-57704547 23:06 ShadowNinja Calling those modpack-with-menu-things "Games" seems to be causing real confusion: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10254 23:07 ShadowNinja "Subgames" seems to be the best suggestion so far. 23:14 paramat Who cares about confused newbies? they'll soon learn, too much spoonfeeding ... the engine is not a game, subgames are not sub-, they are games =) 23:19 rickmcfarley I've had to explain the difference to a few new comers 23:20 rickmcfarley I wish there was a launcher to view/add games 23:21 rickmcfarley I was thinking about making a simple python script, but figured there was already such a thing