Time  Nick         Message
01:30 hmmmm        sapier, it seems like your state2Name() function is the primary cause of warnings for this build of minetest
01:30 hmmmm        ClientState is already implicitly converted to an integer, and then upcasted to a size_t since it's being compared to an expression of type size_t
01:31 hmmmm        but then if you get rid of that, it still give plenty of "comparison is always true due to limited range of data type" warnings - true, because you're using an enum there's no way for that to be out of range.  so the check is sort of useless.  not to mention that code will only ever be there with debug builds, so it's not very effective at error checking
01:32 hmmmm        I recommend removing that assertion entirely
03:45 Megaf        hmmmm; sapier is not here, is he?
04:20 RealBadAngel VanessaE, it was Mercury  Rain
04:20 RealBadAngel and the others from Skaven
04:21 RealBadAngel theyre all used in technic_game
04:21 VanessaE     yeah, I eventually figured it out
04:21 VanessaE     at least I remembered the author :P
04:22 RealBadAngel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjHNPzv9sGY
16:43 sapier       18:40:07: ERROR[main]: Texture size (I): 248x90 ( Total: 57076292 bytes Signs: 56603520 bytes ) that's amazing .... that damn signs mod composing texts from single textures causes about 99% of texture memory usage on vanessae's 30005 server
16:46 sapier       only around spawn there are more then 600 signs on her server, each of them requires 90kb ram on pc ... it's even worse on android devices not supporting npot2 textures as those textures have to be scaled up there and require 128kb there
16:47 sapier       additionally there seems to be a bug in that mod as there are plenty of abadoned, invisible sign textures there too
16:48 Calinou      this is why you don't do stuff like that entirely in Lua
16:48 sapier       Calinou can you give one single reason for this to be a lua issue?
16:49 Calinou      this is just a typical “whale mod” :/ but the texture combining is not ideal anyway
16:49 sapier       I'm still waiting for som explanation making your comment anything else as plain lua bashing
16:52 sapier       imho it's more a example for something beeing completely independent of language. No matter what language you use, if you do silly things in a even more silly way you're gonna get bad results.
16:52 Calinou      yeah, bad coding, not Lua in itself
16:52 Calinou      disregard the first sentence I said
16:52 Calinou      texture combining was not meant to combine dozens of textures
16:53 sapier       the one writing that mod wasn't aware how expensive textures are
16:53 Megaf        sapier: what mod?
16:53 sapier       creating a single texture per sign is way to costly for hundreds of signs
16:53 Calinou      I prefer having the text showing up on the GUI anyway…
16:54 sapier       homedecor if I remember correct. What we're talking about is sign text beeing displayed on sign
16:55 Megaf        sapier: could be the signs_lib
16:55 sapier       basically that'd be a monochrome texture ... but it's created as full rgba texture ... 248x90x4bytes
16:55 Megaf        VanessaE: What's the signs more you are using?
16:56 sapier       signs_lib sounds good
16:56 Megaf        sapier: I do great use of signs with texts on my server, you are scaring me...
16:56 sapier       the issue is client side
16:56 sapier       server doesn't even notice
16:57 sapier       those numbers I posted are from moving around about 50 nodes around that server spawn
16:59 jin_xi       guys im sorry, i made painting mod which started the technique
16:59 jin_xi       imho dynamic content is needed and fun, so pls dont kill the feature
17:00 sapier       I don't intend to kill it at all but ppl should realize how costly this things are ... at least we now know another location where a fix is required
17:01 sapier       having 600 signs within a distance of 50 nodes seems abusive to me
17:01 jin_xi       i also made a tetris mod using texture combining
17:01 * jin_xi     hides
17:02 sapier       the problem with signs is each sign is a separate texture as there's a different text on each
17:02 sapier       I guess for tetris there's only a small number of different textures
17:03 sapier       unless you did combine it pixel per pixel ;-)
17:03 celeron55    i'm fine with engine abuse, but nobody should expect full optimization for abuse cases
17:04 sapier       actually that's what I mean :-)
17:05 jin_xi       i agree
17:06 sapier       For android I'm gonna try a quick hack ... almost no other texture is 248x90 pixels ... converting to 16 bit color format saves half of memory ... hope that's gonna work ... but that's a ugly hack not a solution
17:07 sapier       suggestions are welcome
17:08 sapier       does anyone know why we save the image in textureinfo cache?
17:08 celeron55    i'm trying to understand whether the midway textures of the sign text combination are left stored in irrlicht
17:09 celeron55    do they use a single [combine?
17:09 sapier       for what I understood a texture is a copy of an image
17:09 sapier       yes
17:09 sapier       and we keep the image too
17:10 celeron55    in irrlicht a texture is an image that is stored in the graphics backend like opengl or directx
17:10 sapier       name of those combined textures is about 4 lines on screen ... NOT 80 char lines ;-)
17:10 celeron55    an image is one that is in main memory
17:10 celeron55    (which can't be used for rendering)
17:10 sapier       yes but for what is our local copy?
17:10 sapier       that one in main memory
17:11 celeron55    ?
17:11 celeron55    "what is"?
17:11 celeron55    i don't understand what you are asking
17:11 sapier       we need it to create the copy in gpu memory but do we need that main memory copy afterwards?
17:12 celeron55    they are stored for the case of more textures needing to be combined from the end results of some other combinations
17:13 celeron55    or, at least that is one reason
17:15 sapier       hmmm
17:15 celeron55    it might make sense to not do that
17:15 celeron55    depends on how much memory actually gets used for that
17:16 sapier       well 56.9mb of 57 mb
17:16 sapier       in case of vanessae's server spawn with 600 sign
17:16 sapier       s
17:16 celeron55    what are these meaningless numbers
17:17 sapier       that's an example to show up the relations
17:17 sapier       100kb of regular textures : 56.9mb of sign textures
17:17 sapier       she's using 16x16 textures for nodes
17:19 celeron55    so, what are all of those half a thousand signs doing?
17:20 sapier       some of them seem to be just lost entities ... you only see them if you disable texture combining, others fill whole walls with text
17:20 celeron55    i guess some people just want to write novels in signs
17:20 celeron55    try throwing the images away and see how a game performs
17:21 jin_xi       painting mod uses 1x1 textures for colors, but still, they're recombined every step of the drawing
17:22 sapier       how many pixels do your images have?
17:22 celeron55    having an std::map<std::string, something> with thousand character keys with at least 500 items is going to be slow
17:23 jin_xi       8x8, 16x16 and 32x32
17:23 sapier       and how many colors?
17:23 celeron55    why do colors matter?
17:23 jin_xi       ^ above are usable 64x64 is lagging hard, #colors is same as default dyes
17:24 celeron55    anyway, every time you paint one pixel in the painting mod, you leak one texture (and one raw image) in minetest 8)
17:24 celeron55    unless it's exactly the same as something you had already painted
17:25 jin_xi       well, first version used one entity per painting pixel. but i think its fair to call it engine abuse
17:25 celeron55    they aren't technically leaked from the OS's standpoint, but nobody is going to free them because there is no backwards handling for references
17:25 sapier       yes that's where color matters the more colors the more possible paintings ;-)
17:25 celeron55    jin_xi: that one got everything freed that you modified
17:26 celeron55    sapier: you're going to have 2^64 paintings with 8x8 already 8)
17:26 celeron55    even with black and white
17:27 celeron55    that is why the question is nonsense
17:27 sapier       hmm ok ok ... guess the difference is only too much and way to much :)
17:28 celeron55    the difference is between "maybe storeable before the human race dies" and "more than there are atoms in this universe"
17:29 sapier       I wonder if it'd be an option just to drop the images and reload on combining ... of course combining will be way more slow
17:29 celeron55    uh?
17:29 sapier       that'd not solve the gpu memory overflow
17:30 celeron55    there's no reason to drop the source images, the client doesn't store them on disk anyway
17:30 sapier       yes but in main memory ;-)
17:30 celeron55    are you going to redownload them from the server or what?
17:30 celeron55    the source images aren't our enemy
17:31 celeron55    it's the result images from combining
17:31 celeron55    which can be dropped and which i already suggested trying
17:31 sapier       that's what I'm talking about
17:31 celeron55    just remove video::IImage *img from TextureInfo and kill a bunch of code
17:31 celeron55    and then fight all the memory leaks that you created in the process
17:32 sapier       well I'm gonna free it immediatly so it's more likely to cause use after free issues ;-)
17:33 celeron55    you're lucky that ITextureSource doesn't provide any interface for reading the cached video::IImages
17:34 celeron55    because then this would be impossible
17:46 sapier       ok seems to work without keeping the temporary images in ram