Time  Nick         Message
00:57 ShadowNinja  Comments? http://sprunge.us/HWYL?diff
01:33 OldCoder     Hello. Has the core been changed to access player files differently?
01:34 OldCoder     For example, is any sort of readdir loop used?
01:42 ShadowNinja  OldCoder: No, not recently.  The way it does it is very ugly though (it involves loading every file at startup and for each player on each save).
01:42 OldCoder     ShadowNinja, behavior seems to have changed very oddly. No request for investigation but comment on the following...
01:42 OldCoder     I had backup copies of the player files named bacon.old in the same folder
01:43 OldCoder     So MissMarple was backed up to MissMarple.old etc.
01:43 OldCoder     Starting recently, changes made in-game were written to the *.old files instead of the main player files
01:43 OldCoder     Is this comprehensible?
01:44 ShadowNinja  OldCoder: Yes.  It doesn't care about the file name.  It checks all files for their name= line.  (Because some OSes have case-insensitive filesystems and player names are case-sensitive)
01:44 OldCoder     Ah!!
01:44 OldCoder     Very well
01:45 OldCoder     For some reason this didn't cause problems before
01:45 OldCoder     Thanks
01:45 ShadowNinja  OldCoder: Must have randomly stumbled on the other file first before.
01:45 OldCoder     Yep
01:45 ShadowNinja  (The correct one that it)
01:45 OldCoder     I added safety code to my startup scripts
01:46 OldCoder     If the player files seem to have been corrupted due to crashes, they get reset using the backups
01:46 OldCoder     I'll just move the backups to another folder
07:10 VanessaE     um, guys...is there a reason why the debug.txt is not showing the entire list of players?
07:10 VanessaE     03:10:00: ACTION[ServerThread]: testuser joins game. List of players: VanessaEzekowitz
07:22 VanessaE     (my stats scripts scrape the logs waiting for those "List of players" lines. since the list is always one short, or empty if it should have exactly one item, it throws off my counts)
07:26 VanessaE     https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1317
12:41 Megaf        Look at the CPU usege on my Raspberry Pi, http://paste.debian.net/100788/
12:41 Megaf        I'm quite happy with it
12:48 proller__    0 players and 0 mods ?
12:50 * Megaf      gets a pile of Raspberry Pis an throws at proller__
12:51 * proller__  defends with odroid
12:51 * sfan5      meows at proller__
12:53 * Megaf      gets his ODroid U3 and throws at proller__
12:54 proller__    you can serve 30-40 players on odroid without lags and with mods on <censored> ;)
12:55 Megaf        proller__: are you sure?
12:55 proller__    yes
12:56 Megaf        My ODroid start to lag with 9+ players
12:56 proller__    yes
12:56 proller__    my works with 20 players ok
12:56 proller__    but your faster
12:57 Megaf        I absolutely hate this 09:56:29: ERROR[ServerThread]: Server::ProcessData(): Cancelling: No player for peer_id=76
12:58 Megaf        I'm shuting down one of my servers
12:58 proller__    kill sapier, save minetest
12:59 Megaf        $ git clone https://github.com/freeminer/freeminer.git
13:00 proller__    infidel !
13:03 Megaf        ~/freeminer $ time make -j 1
13:03 Megaf        :)
13:04 Megaf        see ya minetest
13:04 PenguinDad   Megaf: the -j 1 is not required ;)
13:05 Megaf        PenguinDad: heh
13:05 Megaf        I know
14:23 rubenwardy   ShadowNinja: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1318
14:57 rubenwardy   Any reason why "minetest.exe --worldname nbe_test --name player1 --password pass --go" won't load the nbe_test world, and instead loads the first world alphabetically?
15:56 sapier       >Megaf  I absolutely hate this 09:56:29: ERROR[ServerThread]: Server::ProcessData(): Cancelling: No player for peer_id=76< THIS IS an error you've got a peer without a player
15:57 proller      sapier, you wrote code without trying to run it
15:57 sapier       blahblahblah
15:57 sapier       I wrote code for a server not for a pocket calculator like pi true ;-P
15:57 proller      you dont know what you doing
15:58 sapier       but you the one saving 16 bit in a 8 bit variable do? ;)
15:59 proller      wat?
15:59 sapier       check commit logs a few weeks ago
15:59 proller      only one way to save minetest - remove commit priv from you
16:00 proller      show line
16:00 sapier       to get a lot of prolerish while ( x < 10 ) commits which fix it for exactly your machine?
16:01 proller      what?
16:06 Calinou      “// If node blocks camera position don't move y to heigh” in camera.cpp. WTF? two typos in one line?
16:17 RealBadAngel sapier, have u tried item_tweaks?
16:23 rubenwardy   Any reason why "minetest.exe --worldname nbe_test --name player1 --password pass --go" won't load the nbe_test world, and instead loads the first world alphabetically?
16:31 sapier       rba is the pull request it's latest version?
16:31 sapier       rubenwardy: I guess that's not gonna be very helpfull but I'd bet on a bug ;-)
16:31 rubenwardy   Can someone try to reproduce?
16:33 RealBadAngel sapier, https://github.com/minetest-technic/item_tweaks
16:34 sapier       rubenwardy: can you post a console log somewhere?
16:34 ShadowNinja  rubenwardy: --worldname is server-only.
16:35 rubenwardy   so there is no way to do it
16:36 sapier       ShadowNinja: I don't think so, at least the parameter itself isn't
16:37 kaeza        using an old build, but can reproduce it
16:37 kaeza        it loads whatever is in `world' setting
16:38 rubenwardy   selected_world_path  ?
16:38 kaeza        err... `selected_world_path'
16:38 rubenwardy   inb4 XD
16:38 kaeza        ninja'd :P
16:39 sapier       well if the gui is shown that will override it of course
16:40 kaeza        does --go count as "showing the GUI"?
16:40 rubenwardy   --go skips the main menu
16:40 sapier       hmm I don't know I usually either use minetestserver OR gui (minetest)
16:41 rubenwardy   I want to start a singleplayer game from the command line
16:41 rubenwardy   I guess I should just start a server client pair for now
16:42 sapier       well I guess I didn't know about that usecase on switching mainmenu to lua, I'm gonna fix it
16:42 kaeza        rubenwardy, coding some kind of frontend?
16:43 rubenwardy   Adding a button in NBE to run the mod in Minetest
16:43 kaeza        ah, useful :)
16:43 rubenwardy   The folder creation support in C++ is a bit crap
16:43 rubenwardy   this is my current code: https://gist.github.com/rubenwardy/c5c91429110e7d63bdf7
16:44 rubenwardy   I don't want to use boost
16:45 kaeza        and not portable from what I can see
16:45 rubenwardy   It works on Linux and Windows
16:46 kaeza        >mkdir.append("\\worlds\\");
16:46 rubenwardy   \ (ie directory\path.txt) works in Windows and Linux
16:46 rubenwardy   / (ie directory/path.txt) only works in Linux
16:50 ShadowNinja  sapier: I believe it's only used with --server.
16:50 ShadowNinja  sapier: It should probably be read always though.
16:50 ShadowNinja  sapier: Or whenever --go is passed.
16:51 rubenwardy   I hate \ in file systems. It is SO ugly
16:58 sapier       ShadowNinja: I think it's a minor change, even if it did never work that way it's worth adding give me a few minutes
17:06 sapier       rubenwardy: could you check #1319 works for you too?
17:06 ShadowBot    https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1319 -- Add support for directly starting a world by name from command line by sapier
17:34 RealBadAngel farming mod's bread texture has 1 semi transparent pixel in it, so it is broken while wielded or used in item entity
17:34 RealBadAngel should i make a pull for it or i can just commit a fix?
17:38 ShadowNinja  RealBadAngel: Just push a fix, no need for review as long as it only changes that one pixel and is a bug.
17:46 BlockMen     https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=9229
17:46 BlockMen     ^ maybe we should move it to the bottom again?
17:46 RealBadAngel also screwdriver is using hacky_swap_node instead of core.swap_node
17:46 RealBadAngel can i push that too?
17:47 BlockMen     RealBadAngel, sure
17:58 ShadowNinja  Is it?  I thought I fixed that.
17:59 ShadowNinja  RealBadAngel: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blob/master/mods/screwdriver/init.lua#L119
18:05 RealBadAngel ah yes, i have it fixed on my copy, havent noticed you already did the same
18:05 RealBadAngel so ok
18:18 rubenwardy   Another bug: if you start a client with --worldname world --go, it doesn't work. You have to supply --user --password as well
18:19 sapier1      if this wasn't different anytime before I'd not consider this to be a bug
18:35 ShadowNinja  sapier: Wouldn't "singleplayer" and "" make most sense?
18:37 sapier       I'm not sure, next time someone complains why doesn't server start
18:37 rubenwardy   I hate it when software tells me that my name is Rubenwardy not rubenwardy
18:37 sapier       but if there's a majority for using it the change is minor
18:37 rubenwardy   woops
19:25 sapier       RealBadAngel: I tried https://github.com/minetest-technic/item_tweaks I like it. What about adding it to minimal and default? (at least if we can't get it to builtin)
19:26 VanessaE     I told him he should do that
19:37 dsimon       RealBadAngel, minor indentation problem on https://github.com/minetest-technic/item_tweaks/blob/master/item_drop.lua#L420
20:01 BlockMen     "default" is frozen, sapier
20:03 sapier       if it's added to minimal default has to follow ;-)
20:05 BlockMen     no? minimal is not frozen, default is
20:05 BlockMen     *minetest_game
20:06 sapier       everything beeing frozen can be unfrozen in case there's will to do
20:06 VanessaE     put it in builtin
20:06 VanessaE     it's too useful a feature not to give to everyone
20:07 VanessaE     on a different note:
20:07 BlockMen     sapier, so we gonna freeze and unfreeze things daily now?
20:07 VanessaE     is there some way yet to force one mapgen-based mod to always run before another?
20:07 BlockMen     or just depending on mood?
20:07 VanessaE     have we not fixed that yet?
20:08 BlockMen     VanessaE, doesnt it work with soft depending?
20:08 sapier       BlockMen: we haven't done a feature freeze for core for about half a year now how do you think we freeze daily?
20:09 VanessaE     BlockMen: nope.
20:09 BlockMen     sapier, im talking about minetest_game which is PERMANENTLY frozen
20:09 VanessaE     BlockMen: that only ensures the mod is loaded first, but mapgen hooks are not re-ordered by that
20:09 BlockMen     VanessaE, ic
20:10 sapier       anything permanent is equivalent to dead ... well I'd not have a problem with declaring minetest_game dead and start a minetest_game2
20:10 sapier       imho that'd be only a syntactical difference
20:11 VanessaE     BlockMen: I need to ensure that snow biomes mod's mapgen hooks always run before mine, no matter what, no if's, and's or but's
20:11 sapier       but I did only suggest to do it that way as a point to discuss about
20:11 BlockMen     i was always against the death of minetest_game, but it was decided to be dead, so it should stay as that now
20:11 BlockMen     if you want minetst_game2 use _next, it kinda is that
20:11 VanessaE     sapier: can't we just agree that freezing minetest_game against any and all changes was a bad idea and open it up for further, light development and small improvements?
20:12 BlockMen     no, lets it frozen for now. this opinion hpping around here sucks
20:14 VanessaE     no.
20:14 VanessaE     it was a stupid idea to freeze it.
20:14 sapier       to be honest I don't really care how it's done but imho not having any evolving official game is a mistake ... if this is minetest_next or minetest_game or siegfriedotto_game isn't of any interest to me ;-)
20:15 BlockMen     VanessaE, reread the locks WHY it was frozen
20:15 BlockMen     *especially c55 thoughts on it
20:15 VanessaE     BlockMen: it was frozen because of arguments and politics, nothing more
20:15 VanessaE     I'm not gonna bullshit about it
20:15 sapier       so blockmen if you get support for declaring minetest_next to be official I'd be fine with it too but you'll have to face same issues PIlzAdam had to
20:17 BlockMen     minetest_game/an official game was dropped because there were too many opinion on what should be added an what not
20:17 BlockMen     and that will not change if you call it _next,_game or _w/e
20:17 VanessaE     likeI said, arguments and politics.
20:19 BlockMen     why has everything be to discussed AFTER something has be done?
20:19 BlockMen     when i tried to keep _game open nearly noone said anything
20:19 BlockMen     and now everyone claims it has to be keept open
20:19 sapier       BlockMen that's annoying I know but that's the usual way
20:19 VanessaE     BlockMen: like I said twice now, let's just agree that freezing it was a stupid idea, un-freeze it, and resume developing on it
20:19 VanessaE     slowly and gradually
20:19 VanessaE     little things here and there.
20:19 BlockMen     no, it has to stop
20:19 sapier       It wont BlockMen
20:19 sapier       no matter how I agree to you but it wont gonna happen
20:20 BlockMen     sapier, you can help an let this down for now
20:20 BlockMen     im not gonna do this discussion again
20:20 BlockMen     im for keeping it frozen for now!
20:21 sapier       and what's your suggestion how to continue?
20:21 sapier       just saying no isn't an option
20:21 BlockMen     as said now: including chosen games within next release
20:21 BlockMen     https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=9103
20:23 sapier       Ok do you open a forum threat for games to apply for it? of course license of those mods has to be compatible to minetest so at least lgpl 2.1 compatible
20:23 sapier       better wtfpl
20:23 sapier       thread
20:23 sapier       but a little bit of threat wouldn't harm too ;-)
20:24 BlockMen     sapier, umm..."Declare your game to be ready to be bundled with Minetest"
20:24 sapier       I suggest defining some minimum set of requirements for a game too, e.g. own icon, own background, significantly different
20:24 sapier       we don't need hundreds of games with only one different node
20:25 BlockMen     "We will find a way to pick a couple of games to the next Minetest release (or the one after that; soon anyway) and get all possible Minetest packages to include the recommended bunch of games in a default install option."
20:25 BlockMen     that means chosen games are included
20:25 BlockMen     so you example game not ;)
20:25 BlockMen     *+r
20:26 sapier       no if we do so we need a ruleset for everyone to be transparent why a mod was added and why not
20:26 sapier       if we don't do it that way it's gonna end up in endless discussions without any result
20:26 dsimon       terminology question
20:26 dsimon       a "game" in this sense is a collection of mods?
20:26 dsimon       plus an icon and some other meta?
20:27 BlockMen     ask celeron55 how he wants to chose the games
20:28 BlockMen     games should IMO be more than just collections of existing mods
20:28 BlockMen     else you could drop games at all and publish modspacks
20:28 BlockMen     *-s
20:29 dsimon       hm
20:29 dsimon       so are mods generally copied between repos?
20:29 dsimon       e.g. common and minetest_game largely overlap
20:29 sapier       yes
20:30 dsimon       where does primary development of a given mod happen?
20:30 sapier       because most game authors slightly modify mods
20:30 dsimon       ah, hm
20:31 dsimon       apologies for just jumping into the middle of this, I feel like Donny from The Big Lebowski :-)
20:31 dsimon       has there been any thought to organizing game-specific mod changes in a more specific structure?
20:31 dsimon       e.g. a game wanting to change some small part of a mod would only include that change in its repo, rather than the entire mod with the change applied
20:32 sapier       BlockMen: celeron already specified some points games have to comply with but imho he's been a little bit unprecise ... no matter the direction is almost same. I suggest dropping minimal as well as minetest_game from release builds and only add the chosen mods
20:33 BlockMen     sapier, i agree with you suggestion
20:33 BlockMen     *+r
20:33 BlockMen     damn ...always missing a letter
20:34 BlockMen     *wait, what?
20:34 BlockMen     mods?
20:34 sapier       but there's another point we have to discuss, if we don't have an official game, we basically declare mods to be deprecated
20:34 BlockMen     you mean games
20:34 sapier       yes I meant games
20:34 sapier       noone can create a mod without an official game
20:35 BlockMen     hmm...but minimal should be droped for sure
20:35 sapier       minimal is required for development, you can't do anything with it
20:35 BlockMen     you can take minetest_game instead of minimal
20:36 BlockMen     noone develops mods based on minimal
20:36 sapier       then minetest_game has to be merged to minetest
20:36 BlockMen     yes
20:36 sfan5        no
20:36 sfan5        use submodules
20:37 sapier       define "submodules"
20:37 sfan5        http://git-scm.com/book/en/Git-Tools-Submodules
20:37 sapier       do I have to do two git clones using them?
20:37 sfan5        no
20:37 sfan5        do git clone --recursve
20:37 sfan5        recursive*
20:37 dsimon       or run "git submodule update --init" after a clone
20:37 sapier       well then it's not an option
20:38 sfan5        why not?
20:38 BlockMen     so its not included in zip download then?
20:38 BlockMen     as submodule
20:38 sfan5        I'm not sure
20:38 sapier       because I already know how often I'm gonna be annoyed because of having forgotten to do so
20:38 dsimon       sapier, how often do you make new clones?
20:39 sapier       anytime I try a clean build ... at least once a week
20:39 dsimon       though, otoh, one also has to do a submodule update after pulling or changing branches, potentially...
20:39 dsimon       if the references change
20:39 proller      lol
20:39 proller      sapier, git clean -ffdx
20:40 sapier       proller I'm usually very happy to have to do all the work again I forgot to merge because it's been hidden by some insane gitignore rule
20:40 proller      loosing your changes is good
20:41 sapier       well loosing your useless comments would be to but that's wont gonna happen ... by the way did you find your missing 8 buts yet? ;-P
20:41 sapier       sorry bits ;-)
20:41 dsimon       hm
20:41 proller      what bits??
20:42 sapier       well I'm not talking about the alcoholic drink quite common in other parts of germany
20:42 dsimon       any thoughts on, in the future, using a package management system? ala luarocks or luadist (or some fork thereof)
20:43 sapier       not yet dsimon but the idea sounds interesting
20:44 proller      sapier, show log about bits
20:44 sapier       but as we didn't even manage to persuade mod authors to use online moddb I have doubts modders will use that
20:44 dsimon       sapier, perhaps if it directly referenced github
20:44 proller      or forgot your fantasy
20:44 dsimon       that would exclude people who insist on the zip-uploaded-to-forum distribution "method"
20:45 sapier       proller if you're really interested what you did wrong look your self, I already fixed this bug. As you always find my bugs you're gonna find yours without my help too ;-)
20:45 dsimon       but anything with a real repo would still be indexable
20:45 sapier       dsimon:  exclusion is not an option
20:46 proller      sapier, your fixes lost in -2000 +3000 lines of shitcode
20:46 dsimon       sapier, hm, so perhaps even just allow raw URLs pointing at zips?
20:47 dsimon       and more generally: even if the package manager doesn't support a mod, doesn't mean the mod can't be installed
20:47 SoniEx2      make minetest.sound_play take a pitch from 0.5 to 2.0
20:48 sapier       proller look for a small one, if you're right that's not gonna be difficult
20:48 proller      in menu?
20:49 sapier       no c++ code
20:50 sapier       but proller to be honest I don't really care about that bug, ppl doing work will make mistakes that's pretty normal
20:51 sapier       and there's nothing like a silly bug because if it wasn't silly it wouldn't be a bug
20:51 SoniEx2      wait let me rephrase
20:51 SoniEx2      could you make minetest.sound_play take a pitch from 0.5 to 2.0?
20:52 SoniEx2      (0.5 to 2.0 because of OpenAL limitations)
20:52 sapier       I can't I don't know anything about openal
20:52 SoniEx2      also what does minetest use for sound?
20:53 sapier       openal
20:53 SoniEx2      ok good
20:53 SoniEx2      so can anyone do it?
20:54 proller      sapier, you not change my code ina last 3 weeks
20:54 sapier       well then it might have been 4 or 5 weeks ago
20:55 proller      or 6 or 9 or..
20:55 proller      proof or it your fantasy
20:55 sapier       possible it's been a very very small fix ... and as usually it's been told to be my fault ;-P
20:57 sapier       SoniEx2: code seems to be from celeron ... guess noone ever changed it
20:57 proller      show commit
20:57 sapier       no I wont waste that much time on a useless fix
20:59 proller      -> fantasy.