Time  Nick         Message
01:37 Megaf        Hi
04:43 VanessaE     celeron55: *poke*
04:44 VanessaE     [off] celeron55: is that you on one of my servers at the moment?
04:47 VanessaE     [off] obviously not.  impostor noted.
11:18 nore         any thoughts on #1119?
11:18 ShadowBot    https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1119 -- Fix rendering glitches when far from the center of the map by Novatux
13:36 sfan5        awesome!
13:36 sfan5        ssh server on my pi broke and i do not have another way to login
13:37 nore         lol
13:38 proller      telnet!
13:45 sfan5        (oops, wrong channel)
17:57 xyz          ~tell sapier why do you hack SendChatMessage with PEER_ID_INEXISTENT here: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/server.cpp#L3038 and then use that instead of using already existing BroadcastChatMessage?
17:57 ShadowBot    xyz: O.K.
17:57 xyz          why was that accepted?
18:23 xyz          ~tell sapier nvm, I've figured out you removed it for some reason
18:23 ShadowBot    xyz: O.K.
18:40 sapier       xyz I removed BroadcastChatMessage because there where multiple locations where exactly same for loop was used to do exactly same thing.
18:40 sfan5        xyz's not here
18:40 sfan5        he seems to leave right after doing things
18:40 sfan5        which is pretty stupid IMO
18:40 sapier       what did he do?
18:41 Exio4        sfan5, sapier wasn't here when xyz said that either
18:41 sfan5        xyz joins, uses ShadowBot to tell your smth., xyz leaves
18:41 sapier       oh I see
18:41 sfan5        you*
18:41 sapier       well I hope he's gonna read the log because I don't know how to use shadowbot ;-)
18:42 sfan5        ~tell <person> <text>
18:42 sfan5        not that hard
18:46 sapier       well usually I forget things like that very soon
18:57 sapier       https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1164/files last chance to find bugs, I'm gonna merge this in an hour
18:58 nore         can I have opinions on #1119 please?
18:58 ShadowBot    https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1119 -- Fix rendering glitches when far from the center of the map by Novatux
18:58 VanessaE     I believe there were complaints, sapier, about the size of that formspec pause menu being too big for some smaller devices
18:58 sapier       I already fixed this VanessaE
18:58 VanessaE     ok
18:58 sapier       it's now exactly like it was before
18:59 sapier       at least for all things I tried
19:00 sapier       nore haven't there been concerns about switching to often?
19:00 nore         sapier, so in the future, lua-configurable pause menu?
19:00 nore         sapier, the flickering has been fixed now
19:01 sapier       no not configurable yet
19:01 nore         https://github.com/Novatux/minetest/commit/bf688bbc8e01a33db3aa3f6fefbb4fd789ce8100
19:01 nore         ^ there
19:01 sapier       but it'd be a minor change to make it configurable now
19:01 sapier       right now it's just using formspec engine to reduce code required for it by 2/3
19:02 nore         good... 2/3 less code == 2/3 less probability to get bugs
19:03 sapier       most easy way to fix bugs is removing code ... and another positive sideffect is we only have to fix formspec engine to get high dpi support
19:04 sapier       actually this fix is just some bywork I had to do for android port but who cares where it's from ;-)
19:04 VanessaE     definitely merge 1119 if it works and has no side effects
19:04 VanessaE     (I love seeing bugfixes go in in response to bugs marked as "can't fix" :P )
19:04 sapier       novatux code seems to be fine, but I haven't tested it do you know about someone actually trying it?
19:05 nore         me ;) but that's not enough
19:05 sapier       VanessaE? ;-) *smile*
19:07 PenguinDad   nore, I tested it with teleporting to -30972,-30972,-30972 and normal playing
19:07 nore         did you check nodeboxes? it is those who usually flicker
19:08 nore         (especially thin ones, + signs, etc)
19:08 VanessaE     also check with signs_lib's signs
19:08 VanessaE     see how the entities attached to those behave
19:08 VanessaE     those will bug out faster than anything else, I expect.
19:08 sapier       PenguinDad can you confirm the size of menu now is as it should be?
19:09 PenguinDad   sapier, everything is fine now
19:11 sapier       good ... positive sideeffect is you can now correctly use tabs ingame too
19:15 PenguinDad   I can't see any flickering nodeboxes
19:16 sapier       I agree to merging it
19:16 VanessaE     PenguinDad, check the current version of Home Decor modpack please
19:16 VanessaE     the signs therein
19:16 VanessaE     see how they behave too
19:21 nore         ok, it is a bug that is still there
19:22 VanessaE     nore:  mind you, they flicker a bit even near the map center
19:23 VanessaE     see for example the signs near the spawn at Survival
19:23 nore         no, I mean: you can't see it at all
19:23 VanessaE     oops, wrong channel
19:23 nore         I guess they are not translated
19:23 VanessaE     well, eh, it's related.
19:23 VanessaE     oh wow.  yeah that'll need to be dealt with :)
19:23 sapier       a bug in the 1119 or something different?
19:26 nore         in 1119
19:47 PenguinDad   I didn't notice any flickering on homedecors signs
19:49 nore         did you still see them when far from the center?
19:53 PenguinDad   nore, yes I can see them near the edge of the world
19:55 nore         it looks like there are no bugs then... it is strange, because in the test I just did on VE-Survival, no problem, and on VE-Creative, it didn't work
20:00 nore         ok, it looks like it works again...
20:00 nore         sapier, still ok for merging?
20:01 sapier       strange
20:01 sapier       bugs disappearing usually tend to reoccur
20:01 nore         haven't been able to find out why... I guess (or rather hope) it was some kind of lag of the server
20:02 nore         they're ghost bugs, that's the problem
20:02 nore         they disappear when you try to look at them
20:03 sapier       hmmm it's your patch, if there are bugs in it's up to you to fix them as soon as possible so do you think it should be merged?
20:03 sapier       I'm fine with it as long as you don't forget it as soon as it's merged ;-)
20:04 nore         well, I guess I'll merge it, and if one finds a big bug that I can't fix, I'll revert it...
20:04 sapier       :-) I'm for fixing the bug instead of reverting ;-)
20:04 nore         but I have tested it a lot, and PenguinDad said he couldn't find a bug
20:05 nore         <nore> ... that I can't fix ...
20:06 sapier       there are almost no bugs which can't be fixed some way, most time it's just a matter of work ;-)
20:07 nore         indeed
20:07 nore         and anyway: it is easy to disable without removing the commit...
20:08 nore         just change the constant to 0x7fff
20:53 Megaf        Hi all
20:53 Megaf        folks, How to enable and use OpenGL ES?
20:54 Megaf        I used the -DENABLE_GLES=1 flag already
20:54 Megaf        What do I do now?
20:55 sapier       why do you want to enable opengles?
20:55 Megaf        sapier, Becaus I'm on an ARM computer
20:55 Megaf        Because*
20:55 sapier       for what I was told yesterday the only reason for this parameter is to DISABLE it ;-)
20:56 Megaf        At the moment it is using OpenGL Software rendering
20:56 Megaf        Using renderer: OpenGL 2.1
20:56 Megaf        Software Rasterizer: Mesa Project
20:56 Megaf        OpenGL driver version is 1.2 or better.
20:57 sapier       well if you manage to get it work I guess we'll gladly add your fixes
20:57 Megaf        I'm exploring the code at the moment
20:58 sapier       do you have any error message?
20:58 Megaf        nope
20:58 Megaf        I'm not sure if it's my fault or some config problem
20:58 Megaf        I understand that there should be an option like opengles to use on minetest.conf
20:59 sapier       isn't here?
20:59 sapier       I've just ported minetest to android which is arm too
21:00 Megaf        I'm not sure, take a look https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/57710520dca6bce175a6be48989e0a4689b1404e/minetest.conf.example#L122
21:00 sapier       at least ogles1 and ogles2 are configurable ... later one doesn't work right now
21:00 Megaf        sapier, The hardware I'm using is the very same a Samsung Galaxy S3 uses
21:00 Megaf        but running Debian Wheezy
21:01 sapier       I suggest waiting some weeks, I can't merge all at once so you're most likely doing sone double work if you port it right now
21:01 sapier       https://github.com/sapier/minetest/tree/android_cherry_picks
21:02 sapier       that's the base I'm about to merge but it's not gonna be merged exactly the way it is there
21:02 sapier       first of all the generic fixes are merged, thos might already be enough for your environment
21:07 Megaf        Ok, I'm about to compile that branch
21:07 Megaf        running cmake
21:07 Megaf        compiling
21:08 Megaf        sapier, I can help you testing it on actual android too
21:08 Megaf        I have to smart phones running Android, one its ARM and runs Android 2.1 or 2.2 and has qwerty keyboard
21:08 Megaf        and another is running Android 4.1.3 or so, and its an Intel Atom
21:09 sapier       not sure if 2.1 and 2.1 work but you can give it a try http://animalsmod.comuf.com/downloads/Minetest-debug-2.apk
21:09 Megaf        I can have Android on the box I'm on now, its a quad core ARM at 1,7 GHz, 2 GB of RAM (Galaxy S3)
21:09 Megaf        and I can run android 4.0 on my old EeePC 701 too
21:10 sapier       I'd be glad to get some feedback
21:10 sapier       right now I've got only three devices to test it
21:18 Megaf        cool
21:18 VanessaE     four but one crashes instantly :P
21:18 Megaf        and now I got a clean flash drive (it went to the washing machine with my clothes)
21:18 sapier       *g* sorry vanessaE
21:19 sfan5        Megaf: it shouldn't break from that
21:19 Megaf        It didnt
21:19 Megaf        I wouldnt work at first, but then I let it dry, not its working ok again
21:20 Megaf        and its clean :P
21:20 Megaf        [28275.822689] sd 8:0:0:0: Attached scsi generic sg3 type 0
21:20 Megaf        [28275.824207] sd 8:0:0:0: [sdc] 15633408 512-byte logical blocks: (8.00 GB/7.45 GiB)
21:20 sapier       *g* well usually you shouldn't attach wet devices to anything providing electicity
21:20 Megaf        sapier, is there any apk anywhere of your minetest?
21:21 sfan5        sapier: have you tested my android build's controls?
21:21 sfan5        IIRC they were different
21:22 sapier       I tried stus and xyz's sorry didn't know about yours sfan
21:22 sapier       stu and xyz's cross did use way to much of my devices screen so I changed to T style
21:23 VanessaE     maybe a menu item to select which control style you prefer, would be in order.
21:23 Megaf        indeed
21:23 sapier       no
21:23 Megaf        some games even let you customize the layout
21:23 sapier       we have to decide
21:24 sapier       and you can't really jump in cross style control anyway
21:24 sfan5        it is way nicer if the user can choose?
21:25 VanessaE     well then the other style, but with a "size" adjustment somewhere
21:25 sapier       unless you've got a very very big device or small fingers
21:25 sfan5        s/?//
21:25 sfan5        g'night for now
21:25 VanessaE     night
21:25 sapier       no it isn't it's just a useless decision adding additional settings where I suggest to remove all but most required settings
21:26 sapier       and as I said I don't even know how someone is supposed to really walk around using the cross
21:26 sapier       how do you do it sfan?
21:27 VanessaE     I don't get what's so hard about having two "joysticks" on the screen, in opposite corners.
21:28 VanessaE     one to control walking/strafing, one for turning and looking up/down
21:28 sapier       vanessae that's what my control implements
21:28 VanessaE     oh ok
21:28 VanessaE     guess I'd have known that if it didn't crash at startup ;)
21:29 sapier       you can move your view by right thumb as well as press the jump button placed on right side
21:29 VanessaE     but anyway, I think of it like the PS1-and-up "dual shock" controller
21:29 sapier       while T style movement is controled by left thumb
21:29 VanessaE     nono, not T-style. use a d-pad style.
21:30 sapier       pad style uses way to much of screen
21:30 VanessaE     so make it smaller
21:30 VanessaE     or rather,
21:30 VanessaE     make it a joystick
21:30 VanessaE     forget the pad entirely
21:30 sapier       can you imagine some ppl having bigger thumbs then you girls do?
21:30 VanessaE     nonono
21:31 Megaf        one half of screen as a camera moving pad
21:31 VanessaE     drag a joystick around a small area, no more than 1x1 cm (on an average phone)
21:31 Megaf        and another half as directions
21:31 Megaf        one half = mouse
21:31 sapier       to me with cross style control I did cover about 1/5th of screen with my hand
21:31 Megaf        another half = keyabord
21:31 Megaf        keyboard
21:31 VanessaE     don't look for *buttons* to press, look for an object being dragged around, like what sfan5 was working on
21:31 VanessaE     but much smaller
21:31 sapier       and another 1/5 with my right hand
21:32 sapier       this doesn't matter on 20" tablets but is crap on 4" mobile phones
21:32 VanessaE     I'm thinking of phones actually
21:32 VanessaE     a 10cm phone will have a screen about 4x8 cm or thereabouts
21:33 VanessaE     that's plenty of space to allow for a little 1.5x1.5 drag area in each corner
21:33 sapier       why cover more screen if there's a less covering way handling same even better?
21:33 VanessaE     because you gotta think of this from a gamer perspective, not a coder perspective :)
21:33 VanessaE     have you ever played on a PS1? :)
21:33 sapier       actually I did use the cross before I tried to play it
21:34 VanessaE     no no no and no
21:34 VanessaE     not the cross
21:34 sapier       the T was result of actually playing and beeing anoyed about hiding
21:34 VanessaE     you're not listening :P
21:34 sapier       no because a PS1 has a controler AND a screen
21:34 sapier       so this is a very very bad example
21:34 VanessaE     not a cross and not a D-pad
21:35 sapier       we can talk quite some time I suggest just trying
21:35 sapier       codewise it's a minor change
21:36 VanessaE     I've played the style you're talking about before, it works but it takes too much screen space
21:36 VanessaE     and it's a very coarse control system
21:36 sapier       T style takes to much space?
21:36 VanessaE     yes
21:37 sapier       you know cross requires 1/3 more?
21:37 VanessaE     didn't I just say *not* a cross? :)
21:37 VanessaE     I'm suggesting something different.
21:37 sapier       ok now I'm curious?
21:37 VanessaE     imagine a single button, maybe 1 or 1.5 cm square on your 10cm screen.
21:38 VanessaE     touch the center and drag your finger to one side or another.
21:38 VanessaE     THAT is how you move
21:38 sapier       and where's the difference to a cross?
21:38 VanessaE     the difference is the cross requires you to touch the individual buttons
21:38 sapier       why?
21:38 VanessaE     this is a proportional joytick
21:38 VanessaE     joystick*
21:39 sapier       we don't have movement speed
21:39 sapier       so it's digital anyway
21:39 VanessaE     well even better
21:39 VanessaE     you don't need multiple buttons when just a tiny movement of your finger across a single button's worth of space should do the same job
21:40 sapier       better? this results in your suggestion just beeing usage of a different texture for cross style buttons ;-)
21:40 VanessaE     ok so maybe it's a cross but you propose this gigantic thing
21:40 sapier       you still need them unless you wanna implement a completely new irrlicht gui element
21:40 VanessaE     I propose something really tiny that barely takes the space of an average home screen icon :P
21:41 sapier       that's not gonna work due to some bad touchscreens
21:41 VanessaE     define "bad"
21:41 sapier       my brothers touchscreen doesn't do stable touch detection once you touch it it's going to move in some direction later
21:42 VanessaE     damn.
21:42 sapier       so if you make your cross to small you'll get erratic movement
21:42 VanessaE     another argument for a size control then
21:42 sapier       size control?
21:43 VanessaE     start with some gigantic thing about the size of Buildcraft or that "other" one, let those whose screens work properly size the button way down to something more reasonable.
21:43 VanessaE     you know, something in the Settings menu "large", "small", "tiny" etc.
21:43 sapier       you're talking about dpi dependent gui?
21:43 VanessaE     naw, something more coarse than that.
21:44 sapier       you know how foolisch the average android user is?
21:44 VanessaE     of course.
21:44 VanessaE     that's what disclaimers are for :P
21:44 sapier       so ANY setting is to much for them ;-)
21:44 sapier       disclaimers wont help
21:44 VanessaE     thing is though,
21:45 VanessaE     we just can NOT dumb this down
21:45 VanessaE     that's too wrong
21:45 sapier       telling "but I it was written there" wont stop anyone from beeing upset
21:45 sapier       in best case we find a control which is usefull on any device
21:46 VanessaE     but then the "it takes too much of the screen" becomes a problem
21:46 VanessaE     there can be no balance here I'm afraid
21:46 sapier       there can be
21:46 sapier       we can't expect to get it work on 240x200 ... that's not gonna work anyway
21:47 VanessaE     if Android can offer font sizes of "large", "huge", etc., why can't Minetest offer a similarly-coarse, generic set of sizes for its overlay/UI controls?
21:47 VanessaE     oh I dunno, DOOM worked out pretty well at 320x240... :P
21:48 proller      i have 240x240 android device or tests
21:48 sapier       maybe in some later version but right now we shouldn't delay it by requesting features which are only usfull for minirity
21:48 VanessaE     well maybe
21:48 sapier       if you find anyone who did play doom on touchscreen 20 years ago I'll add sizes immediatly ;-P
21:48 proller      for tests
21:48 VanessaE     but first, before that, we need to make it work at all ;)
21:49 sapier       does it support opengles proller?
21:49 proller      it have 2 cores and 8k in antutu
21:49 sapier       ogles1?
21:50 proller      freeminer started on it, menu shows, but impossible to select
21:50 sapier       ok should work
21:50 sapier       hmm maybe we need a even simpler main menu then my simplified version
21:50 proller      just resize it
21:50 Megaf        sapier, os there an apk to run your build?
21:51 sapier       (22:14:04) sapier: not sure if 2.1 and 2.1 work but you can give it a try http://animalsmod.comuf.com/downloads/Minetest-debug-2.apk
21:51 sapier       resizing won't work as you can't use the buttons
21:52 sapier       if you wanna use it on devices that small we need a completely new layout
21:53 sapier       I already thought about it but some ppl always expect it to contain ALL settings from original one ... which is just crap for screens that limited ;-)
21:54 proller      i can use chrome and browse sites, why i cant hit to resized menu?
21:55 sapier       because irrlicht gui won't resize the gui as whole but the individual elements messing up completely
21:57 sapier       if we did find a way to scale the large gui this would work, so  if someone knows how this works you're welcome ;-)
21:58 sapier       but proller do you really feel using a regular down scaled website "comfortable"?
21:58 proller      nothing comfortable on this screen
21:58 proller      but anything works ;)
21:58 sapier       maybe we should first focus on screens where it's going to be usefull and then fix the issues for exotic devices?
22:00 sapier       how do I make a screenshot on android? are there apps doing things like that?
22:00 VanessaE     it's built in
22:00 sapier       how to do it?
22:01 VanessaE     in the ":::" menu should be an app that does it.  or at least mine came with a screenshooter already included
22:01 sapier       ::: menu?
22:01 sapier       I'm new to android ;-)
22:01 VanessaE     the button in the upper right corner of your home screen?
22:02 VanessaE     looks like a ":::" ?
22:02 sapier       settings?
22:02 sapier       yes
22:02 VanessaE     no, it pulls up a screen of all your current apps
22:03 VanessaE     you can also configure the OS to put the screenshooter in your control/status bar also
22:03 sapier       ok found it
22:06 Megaf__      Hi all
22:06 Megaf__      Android here :)
22:07 sapier       http://imgur.com/Jj4Fyhb that's how it's gonna look like
22:08 VanessaE     EEK
22:08 VanessaE     good G*D
22:08 VanessaE     that's ridiculously huge
22:08 VanessaE     I was trying to suggest something maybe the size of one of the hotbar icons, at the biggest
22:08 sapier       nor try to imagine this beeing a 3x5 cm display
22:09 VanessaE     with a clearance space around it maybe as big as ONE of your arrows
22:09 sapier       with my thumb beeing 1.5 cm
22:09 sapier       well and I wouln't have any chance to control my movement with a control that small
22:09 Megaf__      sapier: Your build dont work here
22:10 Megaf__      perhaps because its an Intel CPU?
22:10 VanessaE     3x5cm?  erm, you said it was a 4" display == 10cm
22:10 sapier       intel android?
22:10 Megaf__      yes...
22:10 Megaf__      I use Android 4.0.3 on my EeePC 701, Intel Celeron @ 900 MHz
22:11 VanessaE     ok zooming the page out to make that image about 10cm diagonal, that's still a huge control.  why can't you make it like the ellipse on the right?
22:11 Megaf__      and my smartphone is a Motorola Razr I (Intel Atom @ 2 GHz)
22:11 sapier       well it's for real android megaf ;-)
22:12 sapier       well on my dads smartphone this size was usable for my hands
22:12 sapier       on my tablet it's way to huge of course
22:12 RealBadAngel hi
22:12 VanessaE     sapier: I have pretty big hands, likely bigger than yours even.  this control system you've got proposed here would be bigger than even I would need on a phone that size.
22:13 VanessaE     hey RBA.
22:13 sapier       but your's requires quite precise touchscreens
22:13 VanessaE     (assuming the aforementioned 10cm phone)
22:14 sapier       basicaly my view control works this way and I'm not really happy about it
22:15 sapier       on my tablet I have to move at least 1cm to get a response at all
22:15 VanessaE     put your tablet into debug mode, there's a thing that'll show you just how precise, or not, your screen really is
22:16 VanessaE     settings -> dev options -> pointer location
22:16 VanessaE     er, your phone I mean
22:16 sapier       it's just androids fat finger correction as my finger isn't set plain to the device
22:17 sapier       if I use it with tablet laying on table and press a single finger it's way more precise but tablets are usually held and controled by thumb
22:19 celeron55    is there a way to jump in this?
22:19 sapier       I feel we need prepare some options and start a poll
22:20 sapier       jump is done by the concentric cicles
22:20 celeron55    oh i see
22:20 sapier       so you can move with left hand and view/jump by right
22:21 celeron55    i like that
22:21 VanessaE     I dunno.
22:21 sapier       of course the button icons require some better artwork, I'm not very skilled in doing things like that
22:21 sapier       the better ones are from stu's build
22:21 VanessaE     that kinda screws with the usual left-hand-to-move/jump, right to turn/dig/build paradigm
22:22 sapier       you can't use your left hand to move and jump anyway
22:22 celeron55    this plays fine on sailfish, but it's still impossible to write anything to text fields
22:23 sapier       I assume you use middle finger to move and thumb on space to jump
22:23 celeron55    the keyboard pops up, but if i press enter, it goes to the game, and if i close the keyboard without pressing enter, it just closes it and no value ends up anywhere
22:23 sapier       that should work in my build
22:23 sapier       at least if you get it run
22:23 celeron55    (no value ends up anywhere in the first case either)
22:23 celeron55    i'm using that build
22:24 sapier       yes closing keyboard doesn't work due to a android bug
22:24 sapier       strange
22:24 celeron55    anyway the end result is that i can't write anything to any text field whatsoever
22:24 sapier       that's bad
22:25 sapier       I don't have sailfish, is there some emulator to try?
22:25 celeron55    probably not
22:25 sapier       megaf did you have any success on other devices?
22:26 sapier       :-/
22:26 celeron55    sailfish native apps are generally developed on an i486 version of sailfish
22:26 sapier       I wonder what sailfish is doing different to android for keyboards ... maybe the keycodes
22:26 celeron55    and this android stuff tends to only work on arm
22:27 sapier       wait you've been able to run the arm apk on i486?
22:27 celeron55    no
22:27 sapier       oh you rebuilt it
22:27 celeron55    i run it on a real Jolla
22:27 sapier       ah ok
22:29 celeron55    now i got the "No world selected and no address provided. Nothing to do." error and can't close it
22:29 celeron55    the back button does nothing and there's no button in the dialog 8)
22:29 sapier       ok but still first step is to merge the general fixes from that branch, then decide which way of touchscreen gui to merge and then how the exact gui design should be ... at least in my gui it's a minor change using T or cross
22:29 sapier       no workd selected? how did you even get there?
22:29 sapier       my build should always select a single world only?
22:30 celeron55    i just pressed enter on the keyboard, trying to type a name (= typed something blidnly because can't see the field under the keyboard and pressed enter on the keyboard)
22:31 celeron55    it behaves like pressing enter on a real keyboard, and other keys don't do anything 8)
22:31 sapier       funny :-) no idea how to reproduce this on android
22:32 sapier       yes but there are only two actions on my build either connect to multiplayer or start with a predefined world :-) ... at least those are the two intended options
22:32 celeron55    just don't select any server and press "connect"
22:33 sapier       ahh ok :) now I got it
22:33 celeron55    it's the "enter action" of the menu i guess
22:34 sapier       yes I'm gonna fix the error message guess I forgot the button for it
22:36 sapier       but right now it's a proof of concept only some code isn't yet shaped for merge
22:36 celeron55    i'm not sure where to find information about how exactly sailfish has wired it's native keyboard to the android interfaces; it's not really important though because nobody uses this platform :P
22:37 celeron55    (except me and about 3000 other people)
22:37 sapier       why skip a platform if it's just minor things to fix? (if it's just minor)
22:37 sapier       hmm actually the button is there .... below the visible range ;-)
22:38 celeron55    could it be that minetest reads some kind of "hard" keys and the keyboard outputs only some kind of character keys?
22:38 sapier       possible the keyboard code is a patch to irrlicht right now ... I just did copy it and it did look quite hacky
22:38 celeron55    there's a chance that it doesn't output anything though, if only input to android-native text fields is implemented
22:38 sapier       as hacky as wchar translation I had to ad
22:38 sapier       d
22:39 sapier       android just put the normal chars in an integer array :-/
22:40 celeron55    i think minetest should pop up a native text field for text input, to the upper part of the screen
22:40 celeron55    that way everything will work everywhere
22:41 sapier       that'd work yes ... but break style completely
22:41 celeron55    as if minetest had any style 8)
22:41 sapier       at least it's consistent in gui ;-)
22:42 celeron55    it needs to pop up a field anyway, because you can't see the field if it's where it's located normally
22:42 sapier       good point
22:42 celeron55    unless you're using a huge-ass tablet
22:43 sapier       as I said right now it's just for testing purposes things like that are exactly what it's supposed to reveal
22:47 celeron55    i really wonder how bored people have to be to attempt to actually play minetest on a touchscreen
22:48 celeron55    like, it's a fun tech demo, but not really more than that
22:48 sapier       well I feel the control isn't that bad
22:48 celeron55    maybe it's an advertisement like "come play this on your PC"
22:48 sapier       single long press to dig double click to place ... it's quite smooth
22:51 VanessaE     celeron55: apparently a lot of folks are quite content to play on their tablets
22:52 VanessaE     beats the hell out of me why, a PC is infinitely easier to use - except of course for those folks who don't have a PC at all
22:54 celeron55    well i guess it might be understandable if one doesn't have a PC at all
22:54 celeron55    that's sad though
22:54 sapier       http://animalsmod.comuf.com/downloads/Minetest-debug.apk should fix the non leaveable errormessage
22:55 sapier       celeron if you wanna try the controls you could just press the singleplayer button ;-)
22:55 celeron55    i already tried them, the singleplayer works fine
22:55 sapier       ok
22:56 celeron55    the FPS isn't really enjoyable though, but that's what you can expect
22:56 sapier       I've got about 10-15 fps in singleplayer
22:57 sapier       5-10 on vanessae's server and 0-1 at vanessaes server spawn
22:57 VanessaE     which server?
22:57 VanessaE     I have 6. :P
22:57 sapier       the plain vanilla
22:57 celeron55    the build has one default favourite server :P
22:58 celeron55    i can't join the server because the game crashes when joining
22:58 celeron55    maybe because i can't input a name at all, dunno
22:58 sapier       :-) true but I have no idea why vanessae's server is in there :-)
22:59 VanessaE     celeron55: see /msg
23:00 VanessaE     heh
23:03 sapier       he's playing half an hour and already found two bugs ... dissapointing ;-)
23:04 VanessaE     you got your work cut out for you sapier :P
23:14 CiaranG      I feel the same way as celeron55 about the touchscreen, but don't forget there are android devices with real controllers too (I'm holding one)
23:16 RealBadAngel http://img10.allegroimg.pl/photos/oryginal/40/09/40/59/4009405922
23:16 RealBadAngel costs less than 30usd
23:17 sapier       does anyon know how to kill a messed up adb without restarting machine?
23:17 CiaranG      holding this... http://jxd.hk/products.asp?id=639&selectclassid=009006
23:18 CiaranG      and yeah, sapier's latest build runs great on it - aside from being forced to poke the screen to move ;)
23:18 sapier       you aren't
23:18 sapier       you can just attach a mouse
23:19 sapier       my touchscreengui just translates screen commands to mouse/keyboard events so original control is still operational
23:19 CiaranG      So I have a device I can hold in my hands, with TWO analog joysticks, two d-pads, and more other buttons that I can count
23:19 CiaranG      And I put in on the table and attach a mouse to it? ;)
23:20 sapier       well that's your idea not mine *smile*
23:21 CiaranG      Your idea was the mouse. Mine will be a merge request to remove all those overlays from the screen and read the real controllers :)
23:21 sapier       no I just said you can do this ;-) a small but significant difference ;-) ... ok not really but I'm telling it this way now :)
23:21 CiaranG      unless you add support for it first, of course...
23:22 sapier       I don't think there will be any changes, if those real controlers are mapped to keyboard events they will work out of box
23:23 CiaranG      Analogue controllers don't map well to keyboard events
23:24 sapier       in this case you'll have to write drivers for it ... the gui isn't android specific I think it's not a big deal to only create it if it's enabled by setting
23:24 sapier       I already check everywhere if the pointer is null so just not creating it will do it
23:25 CiaranG      Sure. And the joysticks are easily readable - one would just perfom the same function as the mouse.
23:25 CiaranG      So changes yes. Small ones.
23:26 sapier       true, but as I said before lets focus on the main usecases first
23:27 CiaranG      Quite right. Don't let me distract you from that. :)
23:28 CiaranG      Main point - I tested your build on three devices - it ran. It ran reasonably fast. It didn't crash.
23:28 sapier       yes but it's quite important to have the corner cases in mind so architecture wont mess them up completely
23:28 sapier       so it's a good idea to tell about them too
23:29 sapier       ok I guess I found celerons crash too but I can't test it due to messed up adb and if I shutdown my pc I'm gonna go to bed
23:31 CiaranG      adb kill-server && adb restart-server
23:31 sapier       error: protocol fault (no status)
23:31 sapier       sapier   17367  0.1  0.0      0     0 pts/0    Zl   Mär04   0:03 [adb] <defunct>
23:32 CiaranG      ouch
23:32 sapier       yes some of those processes you can only reboot ... happens quite often with android