Time  Nick        Message
09:10 Selat       Can you just add Belarusian translation? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1161.
10:11 xyz         ~tell sapier address sanitizer will only work on full-eng android builds
10:11 ShadowBot   xyz: O.K.
10:25 Selat       So what about translation?
10:25 pitriss     Selat: someone told me that translations are possible only by website and translation pull request won't be accepted when i asked about czech one.
10:26 Selat       To add translation to the web site I have to send pull request.
10:26 Selat       It' new translation.
10:26 Selat       Not modification of existed one.
10:26 pitriss     Selat: no.. they told me that i need to translate it using weblate..
10:26 Selat       *existing
10:27 Selat       It just adds empty file for translation.
10:27 Selat       I already sent two requests by weblate.
10:28 pitriss     This can be also done by weblate then.. no need for pull request..
10:29 Selat       xyz: So still I need to send a pull-requestt?
10:30 pitriss     Ask someone here to create it and wait. Just be patient... Devs are busy often..:)
10:39 Selat       Can anybody add file po/by/minetest.po or merge this pull https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1161?
10:42 xyz         pitriss: no this can't please don't tell people stuff you're not sure about
10:42 pitriss     xyz: I am sure what someone here told me:)
10:42 xyz         pitriss: I'm now telling you you can't do that from weblate interface
10:43 pitriss     This was main reason why i give up with trying to translate:)
10:43 xyz         pitriss: you can translate but you can't create a new language, what's not clear here?
10:44 pitriss     xyz: I see that I can't do.. This was did by some mod here..
10:44 xyz         what do you mean?
10:44 xyz         nobody can create new translation from weblate interface
10:44 xyz         you need to do that manually, then import them (by updating weblate's git clone)
10:44 pitriss     I mean that empty languages was everytime I mentiooned that by some staff here
10:45 pitriss     *was created
10:45 xyz         meh, I'm too lazy to explain this once again; just don't tell people stuff you know nothing about, okay?
10:45 xyz         one time more, you can't create new languages from weblate interface
10:47 pitriss     I understand.. But ypi don't understand fact that someone here told me that *NO* pull request from ppl will be applied..
10:47 pitriss     *you
10:47 pitriss     if it is about translation
10:47 pitriss     So i only told what i read here when I'm asked.
10:47 pitriss     *eh I was asking..
10:48 xyz         they probably meant that about pull request that modify existing translation, not add new
10:48 pitriss     My english skills sucks today, sorry
10:49 xyz         also I think it's bad that they just close them without, i.e. adding those translations to weblate; but that's another question
10:49 pitriss     Maybe.. But they told me general *No* to translation pull requests.. There was no exception for empty ones.
13:03 __1__0      hello
13:14 __1__0      there are ?
13:17 __1__0      i would like to reoganise the gui in the game, i must modify source code or create a mode ?
13:21 xyz         what gui? main menu or?
13:22 __1__0      backpack,selection of items
13:23 __1__0      table's crafting
13:28 xyz         that you can modify with mods
13:29 __1__0      =) in lua =)
13:30 __1__0      i love the idea
14:20 sapier      xyz isn't emulator version a full-eng build?
14:21 xyz         dunno but if you're running it on emulator you have a more important problem
14:22 sapier      I try both ... emulator doesn't handle texture correct, no idea why
14:22 xyz         because it's a fucking emulator
14:22 xyz         I'm surprised you expect it to work
14:23 xyz         even if it does it's damn slow
14:23 sapier      for what I know emulators usually work ... while beeing extremely slow but thats not a functional problem
14:24 xyz         no they usually don't
14:25 sapier      well then you use wrong emulator ;-)
14:25 xyz         based on my experience with virtualbox, vmware, qemu, bochs and maybe something more
14:25 sapier      or you use them for something emulators are not suitable for
14:25 xyz         see, that's what you're doing
14:26 xyz         nice you figured it out yourself
14:26 xyz         but you really aren't supposed to run a 3d app on android emulator
14:26 sapier      maybe but ogles is quite limited so I expected it to be translatable or even doable in software
14:26 xyz         and then complain that textures aren't working or whatever
14:27 xyz         what's the problem then?
14:27 sapier      none I just wonder if there are devices out there having same issues as emulator
14:27 xyz         just build full eng rom for your device if you want to use clang address sanitizer (why, again?)
14:27 sapier      e.g. like the npot problem
14:27 xyz         there surely will be, considering how many devices are out there
14:27 xyz         it's not a problem
14:28 xyz         it's something you just fucking know, ogles1 can't handle npot textures
14:28 sapier      I don't root this devices as it'd be useless for it's main purpose, test what user will experience
14:28 xyz         it's written in docs everywhere
14:28 xyz         and you don't even need to know anything about it since Irrlicht's supposed to handle it for you
14:29 sapier      xyz you're wrong about it, it's not related to ogles but to the device there are devices out there who can handle npot textures in ogles1 mode
14:29 sapier      well I guess there ain't anything like ogles1 mode
14:29 xyz         sapier: yes but you shouldn't rely on it
14:29 xyz         sapier: where?
14:30 sapier      my dad's huawei device supports npot texutes out of box
14:30 xyz         that's nice
14:30 xyz         now what?
14:30 sapier      that's why it took some time to find out what's wrong ;-)
14:30 xyz         what's wrong where?
14:31 sapier      minetest icon is missing in credits ;-)
14:31 sapier      it's 100x100
14:32 xyz         ah it's bad
14:33 xyz         you can run some opengles tracer and maybe it'll report those issues
14:33 sapier      ok there's only one major problem on my list ... performance on vanessaE's spawn, I fixed the menu problem by replacing pause as well as chat menu by formspec based ones. this even removes a lot of code
14:34 xyz         so where's your code?
14:34 sapier      the android_cherry_picks branch on my repo
14:34 sapier      still not completed, I plan to extract the non android related fixes and create pull requests for them first
14:36 sapier      e.g. pause/chat menu replacement
14:49 xyz         ugh
14:50 xyz         what NDK version do you use btw?
14:50 sapier      latest
14:50 xyz         r9c?
14:50 sapier      yes
14:50 xyz         strange
14:51 sapier      what exactly are you talking about ? the wchar issue?
14:51 xyz         yes, maybe
14:53 sapier      well that one is really strange for what I read latest android versions support wchars ... maybe it's related to the target version
14:54 xyz         wtf is CALCDELTA by the way?
14:54 xyz         can't say I love those changes to touchscreengui.cpp
14:55 sapier      calculate delta handle overflows
14:55 sapier      I'm not surprised ;-)
14:56 xyz         yes, why's that a macro?
14:56 xyz         and why aren't you surprised?
14:56 sapier      I guess it's more a rewrite then a change
14:57 xyz         yeah and I think it got worse but whatever
14:57 sapier      bad habit of using macros for some recurrent things
14:57 xyz         a rewrite which made it 3x the size, well
14:57 sapier      worse in what direction?
14:57 sapier      on the other hand I don't need that much changes in irrlicht
14:58 xyz         there's now too much code
14:58 xyz         what changes are you talking about?
14:58 sapier      and I do handle digg and place events without using special buttons in gui
14:58 xyz         I do too, now what?
14:58 sapier      it's 1000 lines 300 dead ... so it's not mutch
14:59 xyz         ok twice as much, but what's the benefit?
14:59 sapier      it fit's minetests core architecture
14:59 xyz         you skipped my question
15:00 sapier      but what's the benefit --> it fit's minetests core architecture
15:00 xyz         also you should probably remove the copyright
15:00 xyz         yes but you skipped another one
15:00 xyz         not the first time though
15:00 rubenwardy  Let's troll freeminer by changing Minetest upstream so much, they can not auto merge!
15:00 sapier      oh true ... as I said it's work in progress ;-) coypright notices are very last to fix ;-)
15:01 sapier      rubenwardy I wont stop developing minetest in order to make live of freeminer easy ;-P
15:01 xyz         rubenwardy: they've done that already
15:01 xyz         sapier: please do
15:01 xyz         also please answer my question
15:01 xyz         <sapier> on the other hand I don't need that much changes in irrlicht
15:01 xyz         <xyz> what changes are you talking about?
15:01 rubenwardy  sapier, I wasn't meaning what you were doing
15:02 sapier      last time I did look at irrlicht patch it contained some more code then the one I use now ... of course that's been 2 weeks ago
15:03 xyz         this doesn't explain anything
15:03 sapier      and rubenwardy I wont change code for reason of trolling for sure ... sound crazy to risk bugs for something like that
15:03 rubenwardy  :P
15:03 xyz         what code did you remove?
15:03 xyz         from the patch
15:04 sapier      xyz basicaly the touchscreengui has grown out of effort to merge stu's and yours, while i tried to fix them I realized it doesn't fit minetest architecture
15:05 sapier      and it's not yet complete so maybe there's some useless code in there too
15:06 sapier      e.g. those hundreds of lines defining names for debug output
15:06 xyz         we'll see
15:07 sapier      I guess in the end this will be about 500 lines of code
15:11 xyz         this sadly still doesn't mean much
15:11 xyz         what if it's 500 lines of those CALCDELTA-tier stuff
15:13 sapier      lol I know why I didn't want to push the wip code ;-P
15:13 xyz         no worries, I'll find things to complain about either way
15:14 sapier      I know :-) and some of them are valuable too .. that's what review is for
15:14 sapier      I'll replace the calcdelta by a inline fct
15:15 sapier      or do you know about a existing function doing same?
15:16 xyz         of course, just subtract them
15:16 xyz         converted to int
15:16 harrison    CYGNUS INTER ANATES
15:18 sapier      sure this will work on 32 as well as 64 bit and 128 bit too?
15:19 xyz         lel
15:19 xyz         sure you need that much precision when comparing double clicks and stuff
15:19 xyz         wait, it's not precision but you get the point
15:20 sapier      at least getTimeMs is u32 input so this may already fail on 64 bit
15:21 sapier      overflow wont cause precision failure but detection just wont work
15:21 sapier      effectivly loosing event
15:21 sapier      s
15:21 xyz         perhaps
15:22 sapier      of course that way is the "I just want to be really really sure" version ;-)
15:22 xyz         too bad it still won't work in certain cases
15:23 sapier      can you be more precise about the "certain cases"?
15:23 xyz         getTimeMs overflows too
15:23 xyz         your way of calculating delta is strange
15:24 xyz         surely you know that one event happened before another yet you don't take this into account
15:25 sapier      true ... ok delta calc is something I often get wrong .. true
15:25 xyz         so why even do it like this if it won't work correctly anyway if event that happened later has overflown u32
15:25 sapier      so fi c you know how to fix it your help is welcome
15:26 sapier      -c -fi +if
15:26 xyz         I don't think there's a real need to fix anything, just replace this macro with "delta = getTimeMs() - whatever"
15:26 sapier      well I know there IS a way to handle "single" overflows
15:27 xyz         of course
15:27 xyz         and there should be a function written which computes difference between two moments in time
15:27 xyz         returned by getTimeMs
15:28 sapier      well imho this function should handle overflows correct too ... there's various cases where you need the delta between two time ms values
15:29 sapier      guess it should be in porting so different 32/64/128 bit can be handled correct
15:34 Selat       ыфзшукЖ црн нщг гыу ьуьыуе,
15:34 Selat       sapier: why you use memset?
15:36 sapier      to ensure there ain't garbish in there
15:37 sapier      I know I could skip the explicit setting of some fields done later
15:37 xyz         surely c++ is a hard language
15:38 Selat       And why constructor is not suitable for such stuff?
15:38 sapier      because it's a struct
15:38 Selat       mm... struct = class with public by default.
15:39 sapier      well ask irrlicht why they don't clean their fields
15:39 sapier      I just know they don't because I had quite some issues with uninitialiued memory in that struct
15:39 xyz         if it's pod then just do SEvent something = {0}
15:40 sapier      and where's the difference?
15:40 xyz         if it's not pod and you're doing memset ;_;
15:40 xyz         1 line of code
15:40 sapier      you may have realized it's allocated with new
15:41 xyz         uh uh?
15:41 xyz         what do you mean?
15:41 Selat       But it deleted in the same block.
15:41 Selat       Why you don't want to use stack variables?
15:41 sapier      you know we're quite low on stack memory on android?
15:42 sapier      and pthread just ignores your request for more memory
15:42 hmmmm       but how do you *know* that
15:42 hmmmm       you should check with getrlimit and be sure
15:42 sapier      because I tested
15:43 Selat       Than maybe it's better to use static variable?
15:43 sapier      and allocating won't fail if you have more stack so why use two different sets of code dependent on available stack memory
15:43 hmmmm       because one is typically faster than the other
15:43 sapier      might cause issues if you happen to call that function recursive
15:43 xyz         surely stack will be brutalized by 1 SEvent variable
15:43 hmmmm       well SEvent might be big
15:45 Selat       And of course there is a big chance of using recursion in isHUDButton or other events.
15:45 sapier      I know allocating isn't fastest thing to happen but it's done on user interaction so we're in slow code anyway
15:45 sapier      I guess worst recursion level is 2 but SEvent isn't a small thing
15:46 sapier      and 2 is enough to make a static version fail
15:46 Selat       But you are not going to use recursion in such simple methods. So static will be faster.
15:46 hmmmm       isn't the rule of thumb to not go more than 5 levels of recursion on embedded platforms?
15:46 sapier      well I use recursion there as it's passing that event back to it's caller
15:46 xyz         android is now embedded platform
15:47 sapier      as I said I expect worst to be 2 but that's enough to render static variant useless
15:47 sapier      https://gist.github.com/sapier/9308353 is this variant of calculating 32bit difference correct?
15:48 hmmmm       int foo(blah, int recursion_level) { if (recursion_level > MAX_RECURSION) { dstream << blah blah blah ; return 0; } ... foo(blah->whatever, recursion_level + 1); }
15:48 hmmmm       you should use UINT32_MAX
15:48 sapier      I can't change the function signature
15:48 Selat       sapier: in what function you use recursion?
15:49 sapier      OnEvent -> translate (using the SEvent) -> OnEvent ... right now there's no situation (I know about) where a translated event has to be translated again ... but I can't guarantee
15:50 hmmmm       anyway yeah getDeltaMs looks good in that paste
15:50 sapier      And I don't think using static variables as stack variable replacement is good style
15:50 hmmmm       or, of course, you could just make a getDeltaMs64 version
15:51 hmmmm       for Windows they have GetTickCount64()
15:51 sapier      argh ... I didn't expect to open up a issue that big for time calculation ... I was wrong
15:51 hmmmm       but i think that might be >= vista only
15:52 hmmmm       yeah, it is.... nevermind
15:54 Selat       sapier: I can't find call to translateEvent in TouchScreenGUI::translateEvent.
15:56 Selat       ok, I understand
16:31 sapier      great ... u32 is typedefd to unsigned it
16:32 sapier      why does anyone create a bitwidth datatype if it's just ignored at all
16:36 xyz         lol
16:36 hmmmm       i suppose the reason is for compatibility with platforms that lack POSIX conformance, and the idea is to replace that platform specific header file with the one for the appropriate arch
16:37 xyz         cstdint to the rescue
16:38 sapier      possible but results in effect you can't rely on overflow behaving as overflow
16:39 hmmmm       it is pretty bad that they provide "uNN" types but they don't provide uNN_MAX macros
16:39 xyz         so, since we're already using c++11 anyway
16:39 xyz         why not use types from cstdint?
16:39 hmmmm       we're not using C++11
16:39 xyz         woah woah woah look
16:39 xyz         I was quite sure the other day I saw something from c++11
16:39 sapier      msvc isn't c++11 capable
16:40 hmmmm       the last attempt to push C++11 that i'm aware of failed
16:40 xyz         sapier: we don't have to use all c++11 features, just those that work reliably
16:41 xyz         what if I told you snprintf is C++11?
16:42 sapier      true but do you wanna discuss each time someone uses a feature again about this feature is supported? You know how eager everyone is about testin on all supported platforms
16:42 xyz         yet no one seems to discuss anything
16:42 hmmmm       snprintf() is supported by implementations earlier than C++11 though
16:42 sapier      yes because right now we have rule no c++11
16:43 xyz         sapier: smart people have already discussed many features and made charts showing what we can use and what we can't
16:43 sapier      at least as long as we support msvc
16:43 hmmmm       and older gccs
16:43 xyz         sapier: if we have no-c++11 rule please replace snprintf with something
16:43 hmmmm       if it doesn't compile on my machine, i'd say that's a big problem
16:43 xyz         otherwise it's double thinking
16:43 xyz         hmmmm: what's your gcc version?
16:43 hmmmm       4.2.2
16:43 xyz         and why's that a big problem?
16:44 xyz         it's your problem, don't you think?
16:44 hmmmm       it doesn't support C++11
16:44 xyz         yes
16:44 xyz         still, it shouldn't be our problem
16:44 hmmmm       ....
16:44 hmmmm       so are you also going to claim that supporting MSVC isn't "our" problem either?
16:44 hmmmm       who is "your" anyway?  freeminer?
16:44 xyz         alright, alright
16:45 sapier      what's benefit of switching to c++11 anyway?
16:45 hmmmm       look if you want to go break shit, go do it in your own project, not minetest
16:45 xyz         well, I see
16:45 sapier      is there anything which can be done WAY BETTER in c++11?
16:45 hmmmm       sapier:  not really.  i suppose iterator assignments.
16:45 hmmmm       they repurposed the auto keyword for C++11
16:46 xyz         and you'll try to stop c++11 just because it doesn't work with your 5-years old compiler on your PC, fine
16:46 xyz         that's reasonable
16:47 sapier      xyz I don't recall the reason for switching to c++11 can you tell me?
16:47 hmmmm       why don't you just go use GetTickCount64() instead of detecting overflow in GetDeltaMs and drop Windows XP support because nobody uses that anyway
16:47 hmmmm       dropping support is just wrong
16:48 xyz         no, people do use winxp
16:48 hmmmm       switch to C++11, and you'll break support for FreeBSD earlier than 10
16:49 xyz         oh that's so bad
16:49 hmmmm       xyz, what's your platform?
16:50 xyz         hmmmm: my platform contains a compiler that's not 5 years old
16:50 xyz         it's good enough
16:50 hmmmm       yeah well your platform is shit.  we'll drop support for it.
16:50 hmmmm       my opinion > your opinion
16:50 proller     freebsd 9 have gcc 4.9
16:50 xyz         sapier: simple stuff, like auto keyword, range-based for loops, maybe more stuff later
16:50 hmmmm       ....it doesn't.  you add in a huge 3rd party additional dependency
16:50 proller     in ports, or clang
16:50 xyz         just some basic convenience
16:51 sapier      hmmmm our porting layer only provides the ms functions only and I don't wanna use os specific functions in non porting code
16:51 hmmmm       none of those things are good enough reasons to break msvc and older gccs
16:51 proller     most world will switch to freebsd 10 in next 6-9 months
16:51 xyz         it doesn't break msvc though
16:51 hmmmm       sapier, i was being sarcastic
16:52 sapier      xyz I didn't miss any of those features yet, I know they're good for specific usecases but are they worth it (right now)?
16:52 hmmmm       none of them are worth it..... we already had this discussion with hdastwb on the forum
16:52 hmmmm       (i think that's his username)
16:53 sapier      usually we get those issues on switching platforms e.g. android, sailfish or whatever ... those often don't support latest code
16:53 xyz         sapier: as I said, that's just convenience
16:53 xyz         same for fixed size int types
16:53 sapier      btw using isdigit in settings is a (small) problem too ;-) irrlicht has a function named same
16:54 proller     irrlicht HUGE depency too, and xorg, and..
16:54 sapier      I'm absolutely positive about the int types but I don't wanna do the work of chaning everything ;-) any volonteers?
16:56 sapier      SEvent translated               = {0}; doesn't work
16:57 xyz         changing what?
16:57 sapier      error: invalid conversion from 'int' to 'irr::EEVENT_TYPE' [-fpermissive]
16:57 hmmmm       the idiomatic C++ way to do that is to call the constructor with all fields zero (yuck :\)
16:57 ShadowNinja One of C++11's main advantages is Rvalues.
16:57 sapier      of course I'm gonna add a 500 lines initializer ;-)
16:58 ShadowNinja It allows you to move objects rather that copying them and destroying the old one.
16:58 ShadowNinja Which should make containers like std::map faster.
16:59 ShadowNinja I believe the server requires Irrlicht.  What does it need it for?
16:59 sapier      I'm sure c++11 has some nice features ... it wouldn't have made sense to write it if it didn't ;-) but as long as we support platforms without c++11 support we can't switch
16:59 sapier      primary datatypes ShadowNinja ... don't ask, historic reasons
17:00 ShadowNinja u8, s8, u16, etc can be replaced with uint8_t, int8_t, uint16_t, etc.  Or can be typedef'd.
17:00 sapier      NO TYPEDEFING for things like that
17:00 ShadowNinja sapier: What?
17:00 xyz         sapier: what are those platforms? hmmmm's pc?
17:00 sapier      you'll end up in not knowing anything about the type you have right now
17:00 celeron55   ShadowNinja: the server uses irrlicht's types like vectors
17:01 ShadowNinja I meant "typedef uint8_t u8;" and the like.
17:01 sapier      which have been replaced by std ones ... or did we miss some of them?
17:01 ShadowNinja celeron55: So, not all of the code uses STL containers?
17:01 sapier      the clean way is greping and replacing all u8 by uint8_t
17:01 sapier      this way you stop ppl from copy n pasting the wrong types too
17:02 ShadowNinja <cstdint> is apparently C++11-only.  So we'll have to use <stdint.h> for a while.
17:03 sapier      xyz any platform a dev in here uses is supported ;-) ... at least that's what I have realized ;-)
17:03 celeron55   i like c++11; i use auto, the new for loop and lambas, initializer lists and non-static direct class member initializers a lot in new code i write
17:03 xyz         and stdint.h is c99
17:03 sapier      didn't they deprecate the non ".h" things ?
17:03 celeron55   it's like a whole new language with all that stuff
17:03 hmmmm       instead of dropping support for old platforms we should be picking up support for as many things as possible
17:03 hmmmm       in my code I try to support as many of the weird UNIXes as possible
17:03 celeron55   (and a lot better language)
17:04 sapier      celeron55 what about code readability on using all that shiny new stuff? ;-)
17:04 celeron55   sapier: better than before
17:04 celeron55   everything is better
17:05 sapier      wow :-) excessive using of old c++ stuff usually resulted in code only the author was able to read
17:05 celeron55   all those things move C++ a whole lot in the don't-repeat-yourself direction
17:05 celeron55   which i like
17:06 sapier      well that's good but most of the platforms I usually have to work for don't support it so I can't really talk about it
17:06 celeron55   gcc 4.6 supports most things, gcc 4.7 supports practically everything
17:06 sapier      well :-) 4.2 doesn't
17:07 celeron55   newest msvc supports most things, and newest clang supports practically everything
17:07 sapier      ans sometimes my code has to compile on ancient platforms too
17:07 ShadowNinja for (std::vector<ActiveBlockModifier>:const_iterator iter = abms.begin(); iter != abms.end() iter++) --> for (auto &abm : abms)  MUCH better.
17:08 sapier      oldest maintained platform I work for was built in last millenium ;-)
17:08 celeron55   ShadowNinja: yes, it's like fucking magic
17:08 celeron55   nobody can ever argue against that
17:09 celeron55   (except with portability)
17:09 sapier      true those for iterator cascades are creapy
17:10 xyz         sapier: but you aren't going to try to run minetest on it anyway
17:10 sapier      but c++11 is no exchange for looking at your code ... there are plenty of locations in code which are crap no matter what language you use
17:11 sapier      btw that delta calculation has a small but relevant bug ;-)
17:12 celeron55   19:01:51 <+ShadowNinja> celeron55: So, not all of the code uses STL containers?
17:12 sapier      result of equal times is 0xFFFFFFFF ... while 0 would be better
17:12 celeron55   ShadowNinja: ^ eh, the vectors you do calculations with
17:13 celeron55   and store positions in
17:14 ShadowNinja celeron55: Ah, as in v3s16?  We could make our own templated Vector class.
17:14 ShadowNinja Fix for #1162: http://ix.io/aTm
17:14 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1162 -- Item.lua copy_pointed_thing error
17:14 celeron55   ShadowNinja: also whatever rectangles and colors and maybe something else
17:15 ShadowNinja A mod must be calling minetest.registered_nodes[x].node_punch manually.
17:15 xyz         https://gist.github.com/xyzz/e42d6718f3fb2e1c009b
17:15 ShadowNinja celeron55: So it should be doable...
17:15 celeron55   ShadowNinja: yes it is, but what is the goal here?
17:16 celeron55   also, why not just distribute a portion of irrlicht for building the server, if that is the issue
17:16 ShadowNinja xyz: https://github.com/yvt/openspades/commit/ef5ccc6b2ede3d85c76598d59c7ca6ebfb9e5644
17:16 celeron55   it's BSD code, no need to rewrite
17:17 ShadowNinja Yes, that could be done.
17:17 xyz         why ganoo?
17:17 xyz         ShadowNinja: ^
17:18 ShadowNinja xyz: ganoo?
17:18 xyz         ugh, I mean
17:18 xyz         it's called c++11, not gnu++11
17:19 ShadowNinja xyz: Yes.  But older versions use --std=c++0x I beleive.  --std=c++11 is the new flag.
17:20 ShadowNinja (gnu must be a synonym for c)
17:20 celeron55   gnu isn't a synonym for c, it's the standard with gnu extensions
17:20 xyz         so just use c++0x then
17:21 celeron55   (= not a standard)
17:21 ShadowNinja xyz: The c++0x name is depreciated.
17:22 celeron55   c++0x is the only thing gcc 4.6 will accept, and x++0x will be probably forever a valid alias for c++11
17:22 celeron55   so there's absolutely zero reason to use anything else
17:22 celeron55   c++0x*
17:26 xyz         right
17:27 xyz         it's the most "portable" one
17:54 Selat       So what about adding belarusian translation? I asked already about 5 times.
17:56 sapier      is there a pull request?
17:56 sapier      I don't speak belarusian so I can't do it ;-)
17:56 Selat       Yes.
17:57 Selat       I just want you to add empty file, than it'll appear in weblate.
17:58 Selat       *then
17:58 sapier      hmm that pull request isn't really shaped for merge
17:58 sapier      I'm gonna cherry pick it but next time please cleanup your pulls
17:59 Selat       How?
17:59 sapier      rebase to latest master
17:59 Selat       I don't know why this merge commits are added to the pull request.
18:00 Selat       *these
18:00 sapier      I assume you didn't create a separat branch for this ... that delete seems familiar IRC it was already merged
18:04 Selat       So it's better not to do like this https://help.github.com/articles/syncing-a-fork?
18:06 xyz         yes minetest git guidelines require you to use rebase instead of merge
18:06 sapier      true, way of mergeing is somewhat strange her in mt and discussed every now and then
18:08 Selat       this uses merge http://dev.minetest.net/Git.
18:10 sapier      thanks, i fixed it
18:26 Selat       sapier: can you merge this again? I forgot to add name of language.
18:26 Selat       https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1163
18:28 Selat       Damn.. He is offline. I'll have to wait about a day again.
18:29 sapier      is it right now?
18:29 Selat       Yes.
18:29 sapier      done
18:29 Selat       Why I can
18:30 sapier      we really should switch to gpu lighting
18:30 sapier      light calculation is one of the main operations done by minetest
18:30 Selat       I have not seen you at the list because you were on the top.
18:31 ShadowNinja Yes, we should.
18:31 ShadowNinja But that's a bit GPU intensive.
18:31 sapier      it's crazy to see getInteriorLight as top non 3d-engine operation in profiling graph
18:32 sapier      5% of total time is used for this
18:32 proller     and now in very buggy place
18:32 proller     its^
18:34 xyz         sapier: what about server?
18:34 sapier      server?
18:35 sapier      sorry give me a hint what you're talking about right now
18:35 xyz         yes, how would lighting be calculated on a server?
18:35 sapier      puhh no ide
18:35 sapier      a
18:35 xyz         lol
18:36 sapier      sounds interesting ... but will cause things like vanessae's multiserver machine quite useless as you're gonna need hell of a machine for a server
18:37 sapier      and I assume graphics cards are way more suited to calc light values
18:37 proller     sapier, you want to remix and broke all rendering too?
18:39 PilzAdam    sapier, light is currently calculated by the server
18:40 sapier      PilzAdam getInteriorLight is called on client so at least that part is not done at server
19:18 sapier      https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1164 that one is for those of you complaining about me adding too much code ;-P
19:19 sapier      -450 lines of code ;-)
19:21 sapier      if noone complains within the next hour I'm gonna merge it
19:23 celeron55   it's funny how even this special-purpose declarative language is better than a hardcoded alternative
19:26 sapier      All the code is already in guiformspecmenu so why have it in there twice
19:28 sapier      another positive effect is we only have to change guiformspec menu to fix all the gui at once e.g. in case of adding high dpi menus
19:30 proller     now too hard to start game with 240x240 screen 8(
19:30 sapier      I guess it'll be hard no matter what we do ;-)
19:32 sapier      I'm gonna merge #1153 any complains?
19:32 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1153 -- Fix for unloaded but active block problem by CiaranG
19:35 sapier      btw does cherry-picking to master comply to our merge rules?
19:37 celeron55   cherry-pick is basically a single-commit rebase
19:38 sapier      ok so it's fine
19:42 xyz         sapier: please don't indent with tabs
19:42 xyz         I mean, don't "align"
19:42 sapier      I don't do this on purpose where did I do it?
19:43 xyz         https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1164/files#diff-18513665750ef5adf42b5ec29e14162eR973
19:44 xyz         it's usually ShadowNinja who complains though
19:44 sapier      argh ... the old function parameter topic again ... I guess I'm gonna switch this completely ... will result in some more lines of code but noone can complain about tabs there any longer
19:45 sapier      why can't you guys(including github) just use sane tab widths ... we don't have mechanic typing machines nowadays ;-)
19:47 sapier      xyz better this way?
19:48 xyz         why can't you guys(including sapier) just use tabs the way they're intended to be used ...
19:49 sapier      because there ain't a real use for tabs nowadays ;-)
19:50 xyz         you can't really align stuff with tabs because other people may have different setups
19:50 sapier      that makes tabs useless and we could just remove them completely ;-)
19:51 xyz         useless why?
19:51 sapier      especially if you consider the amount of time wasted on discussion ;-)
19:51 xyz         that's only because you can't get it right ;-(
19:51 xyz         I honestly don't think it's that hard
19:52 sapier      well 8 spaces tabs are wrong on almost any screen ... thats why some crazy guys invented mixed mode indentions ... level 1 4 spaces ... level 2 1 tab ... level 3 1 tab + 4 spaces
19:53 sapier      luckyly there aren't much projects left using this crazy schme
19:54 sapier      -much + many
19:56 sapier      I'm gonna merge #973 next if there's no reason not to merge it?
19:56 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/973 -- improved win32 file version information by sapier
19:56 celeron55   i neither think it's hard, but i guess it depends how braindead your editor is
19:57 sapier      imho tabwith 8 is just waste of screen space :-)
20:08 sfan5       sapier: you forgot a comma
20:08 sfan5       ""Minetest"" is property of Minetest community don't use the name -> ""Minetest"" is property of Minetest community, don't use the name
20:10 sfan5       also RUN_IN_PLACE=n would be better than '"run in place build' or 'in system install build' IMO
20:11 sfan5       also for copyright use 2014 instead of 2013
20:11 sapier      :-) maybe I should just write 2015 ;-)
20:12 sfan5       and this one: minetest engine -> Minetest Engine
20:12 sapier      are you sure? thought capitals are used for names only?
20:12 sfan5       I am not sure at all
20:13 sfan5       but it should not cause any problems to capitalize it
20:13 sfan5       (look nicer IMO)
20:13 sapier      hmm I'm exactly oposite opinion ... we need someone else to decide ;-)
20:14 sapier      VanessaE ? you're native ;-)
20:31 PilzAdam    sapier, shouldnt you use wgettext() in #1164
20:31 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1164 -- Replace builtin pause and message menus by formspec based ones by sapier
20:31 PilzAdam    +?
20:32 sapier      no formspec text itself is plain not wchar
20:34 xyz         Minetest™ is a property of the Minetest™ Community®
20:35 xyz         Minetest™ Engine® Core Main Application©
20:35 sapier      isn't TM only for registred trademarks ? ;-)
20:35 sapier      and I won't use any special chars they just cause issues
20:35 xyz         minetestâ„¢.exe
20:35 xyz         nope?
20:36 xyz         you're no fun :(
20:37 xyz         actually, if you want to improve win32 builds, get a certificate and sign the binaries
20:37 xyz         that way people can be sure the builds are from the Minetest™ Organization®
20:38 sapier      well you can do this if you want to improve it even more then this already does
20:38 xyz         you can get it for free, just apply some google
20:38 xyz         that was just a suggestion
20:39 sapier      thanks but I usually avoid things from google ;-)
20:39 xyz         did you really have to state this? I don't think anybody cares
20:39 sapier      this commit is about filling the existing fields only ... they are there so why not use them
21:57 ShadowNinja sapier: "Minetest engine"
21:59 sapier      ok
23:22 * VanessaE  peeks in for a moment
23:23 VanessaE    "tm" isn't "reserved" for anything, you can write "tm" after a trademark without said trademark being registered, normally only (R) is used for registered.
23:24 VanessaE    it might be most accurate to write:   "Minetest", "The Minetest engine", and the Minetest logo are trademarks of the Minetestâ„¢ community.
23:24 VanessaE    er, the TM would be used in all three places if you wanted to be anal about it
23:25 VanessaE    er four.
23:34 VanessaE    thing about trademarks though is that, at least under US law, if you have one that's important to you, you're expected to eventually register it and you're required to actively defend it at almost any cost (literally) if you want to keep it.
23:38 VanessaE    and there's the secondary issue of what a certain other company might have to say about the MT community claiming a trademark.  there's a phrase in US law called "trade dress" that basically says that a product is defined by what it does and how it looks, and certain competitors might not look too kindly on the "Minetest" name if a trademark is claimed on it.
23:39 VanessaE    (e.g. the name and look are so similar that it could get us into trouble)