Time Nick Message 00:18 ShadowNinja ~tell sapier Can you check https://plus.google.com/u/0/b/116830764303517937720/113166754097327759829/posts/KuYZoBrim82 ? 00:18 ShadowBot ShadowNinja: O.K. 00:19 cisoun Hey. 00:22 cisoun celeron55: I'm managing the Google+ page of Minetest (since 2011) and ShadowNinja told me I should transfer you its ownership. Interested ? 00:30 ShadowNinja This should fix ^: http://ix.io/a5H 01:06 VanessaE ok, progress report on the current state of the network code, without the pull request sapier mentioned wanting shadow and I to try: with round about 30 users online, the map loader/emerge thread starts to lag rather badly - BUT things like chat, building/digging etc are working just fine. 01:06 VanessaE and the total CPU, disk and network bandwidth have plenty of headroom left, so it's not any kind of hardware bottleneck, at least not at the server end. 01:07 RealBadAngel so what about #1112 ? can we merge it? 01:07 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1112 -- New HUD element - waypoint. by RealBadAngel 01:07 VanessaE (and these are 30-odd active, real players, not a bunch of bots) 01:11 VanessaE inb4 pr0ller mentions that fm can do 10x as many players before emergethread starts to lag. 01:12 VanessaE it seems to be directly related to the number of players who are downloading new media, as before. 01:12 kaeza FM can do 20x with 1% CPU usage! 01:12 kaeza anyway, any more comments on crouching? 01:13 VanessaE but it's hard to be sure, since I can't directly monitor downloads vs. regular usage. i can only go by what my network graph showed for the periods where the lag got bad. 01:13 VanessaE http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/stats.html 01:44 kaeza I'm trying to implement a `kick_player' method, and have a question about style: is it better to have a std::vector listing the peer IDs to disconnect each step, or add a bool field to RemoteClient and check that? 01:44 kaeza (vector in Server) 01:48 kaeza I guess calling DenyAccess from a Lua C function is not really safe... 02:11 kahrl kaeza: I think sapier just restructured the way players and clients are stored, but that isn't merged yet 02:11 kahrl so it might be better to wait on that 02:11 kahrl (or start from his branch) 02:30 kaeza ah I'll wait for him to finish his thing; it's not much work anyway :P 02:30 kaeza thanks kahrl 03:01 ShadowNinja Or rather, this should fix it: ,,(tell sapier I made this patch for it http://ix.io/a5V does it look good?) 03:01 ShadowBot ShadowNinja: O.K. 07:21 celeron55 cisoun (if you read the logs): I don't use google+ and i am definitely not interested 07:44 RealBadAngel celeron55, hi. so can we merge #1112 ? 07:44 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1112 -- New HUD element - waypoint. by RealBadAngel 13:39 VanessaE ha! someone tried the signs "${text}" exploit on my server. FAIL 14:41 RealBadAngel celeron55, are you here? 14:55 xyz VanessaE: fail? why? 14:55 xyz it only depends on client version 15:00 VanessaE xyz: because if you're smart, you keep on top of bug fixes? ergo, the exploit should fail. 15:00 VanessaE oh right. 15:01 VanessaE > users 15:01 VanessaE > smart. 15:01 VanessaE what WAS I thinking. 15:06 sfan5 VanessaE: ${text} exploit? I'd like to know more 15:07 VanessaE sfan5: I don't know much about it. some recursion bug, crashes some clients when they try to parse the text. 15:07 VanessaE (I thought it affected servers, originally) 15:10 sfan5 ah 15:18 xyz lolno 15:19 xyz if you're smart you're using stable version of software 15:19 VanessaE stable == buggy.... 15:19 VanessaE if minetest's history is anything to go by. 15:19 VanessaE every one of us here knows that. 15:20 xyz well 15:20 xyz if you're smart and don't know much about minetest 15:20 xyz i mean, everywhere else you're supposed to use stable versions of software 15:21 VanessaE yes, perhaps. 15:21 xyz i'd call it confirmation bias 15:21 xyz i'm sure most of people use stable builds 15:21 xyz (it's similar to saying everybody who plays minetest uses linux) 15:21 VanessaE they don't? ;) 15:22 xyz well if you consider android 15:22 xyz although the app got pulled 15:22 xyz or something like that 15:22 VanessaE I dunno, somehow or another I seem to get more tablent users every day 15:22 VanessaE they're coming out of the fucking woodwork. 15:22 VanessaE tablet* 15:23 VanessaE I guess because the iOS client is still out there 15:27 xyz ask them 15:28 VanessaE waste of time :-/ 15:28 VanessaE what I DO know is most of them are *paying* for it 15:28 VanessaE which pisses me off. 15:29 VanessaE 15:30 xyz why? 15:31 VanessaE because the game was meant to be free. 15:31 xyz define free 15:31 VanessaE I refuse to argue semantics, you know very well which definition I am referring to. 15:32 VanessaE if it were meant to be commercial, it already would be by now. 15:32 xyz no I don't 15:32 xyz it's perfectly fine to sell GPL'd LGPL'd software and you know it 15:32 VanessaE besides which, did we already forget that this for-pay version is an illegal fork? under US copyright law, as I understand how it works, that makes it 10x as illegal as it otherwise would be. 15:33 VanessaE no, it isn't, if it's in violation of the license to begin with 15:33 xyz i bet it'd be hard to prove it's in violation 15:34 VanessaE probably hard to prove, sure. But then again, it didn't seem to actually take that much to get it pulled from Google Play. 15:34 VanessaE I guess no one has approached Apple yet. 15:34 xyz we still don't know why was it pulled 15:34 VanessaE yeah I know 15:35 VanessaE I assumed the initial response was automatic/boilerplate and that someone had finally reviewed the DMCA claim for real. 15:35 xyz they reported to me that they've taken care of it 15:35 xyz but then the app reappered 15:36 xyz +a 15:36 xyz not just the app, but three of them or so 15:36 xyz and then after a week or so everything got down 15:36 xyz well, I honestly don't care about apple 15:37 xyz and if they just pull the apps instead of releasing the source (which I kind of hoped they'd do) then I see no point in doing that 15:37 xyz it'll only piss users off 15:38 VanessaE maybe they were re-pulled automatically. you know, duplicate/re-violation detection? 15:38 VanessaE but you're ultimately right, if they'd just release up-to-date, buildable source, no one would complain 15:38 VanessaE (at least about the legality of it) 15:39 VanessaE I'll still bitch about the interface, but that's only because my users do 15:39 xyz when I contacted google and pointed that the dev reposted those apps they said to open another claim 15:39 xyz when I did they once again asked to prove that this indeed is an illegal use 15:39 xyz then I thought "fuck it" and didn't reply 15:42 VanessaE that's what I meant by boilerplate, I think the "prove it" part is automatic isn't it? 15:42 VanessaE they must get thousands, perhaps tens of thousands of DMCA complaints per day 15:42 VanessaE surely they've automated that 15:43 xyz no, only the first reply is automatic 15:43 xyz which says something like "we're processing your request wait a week or so" 15:44 xyz the second time they also asked for a screenshot 15:44 xyz "of the allegedly infringing content as it appears in the application in question" 15:44 xyz well then it got boring 15:44 VanessaE hm 15:44 VanessaE well this kinda stuff can't be expected to be interesting 15:46 VanessaE actually, that's not entirely true 15:46 VanessaE I suppose some copyright cases could get interesting 15:47 VanessaE like that whole apple/samsung patent case. or SCO vs... IBM was it? for a while there anyway. 16:57 sapier ShadowNinja http://ix.io/a5V seems to be correct 17:00 sapier kaeza if you use RemoteClient you have to lock client list while you use it 17:01 sapier I suggest looking at 1116 it changes quite a lot about client handling 17:02 sapier I wonder if vanessae's 30 player lag is result of number of blocks emerged 17:03 VanessaE I believe it is. 17:03 VanessaE because it's *only* the emergethread that lags, and even ordinary block loading (not mapgen). 17:04 VanessaE server commands (e.g. /status) and incoming/outgoign chat don't lag during that time 17:04 sapier node digging? 17:04 VanessaE s/emergethread/loading of the map data/ 17:04 VanessaE even digging/placing nodes seems to behave nodmallt. 17:04 VanessaE normally* 17:05 xyz what map backend do you use? 17:05 VanessaE sqlite. 17:05 sapier it'd be interesting to know if there are other packets on lower prio channels as blocks 17:06 sapier obviously node digging is at higher priority 17:07 sapier if digging nodes is fast, it's not exactly lag but a send priority issue 17:07 sapier but I don't know how you could verify digging is really fast as prediction hides it 17:08 sapier you could try increasing "max_packets_per_iteration" but this increases jitter at benefit of per peer throughput 17:09 VanessaE sapier: I can only assume the placement is fast based on how much was still there when I signed off and back on again to try to combat the map-not-wanting-to-load issue 17:09 sapier ok 17:09 VanessaE that is to say, it was all still there save for the last couple of nodes I placed, and my sign off/on was only a few seconds. 17:10 VanessaE meanwhile, the map was failing to load 30 seconds on. 17:11 sapier a client side wireshark dump of this situation would be interesting 17:11 VanessaE I might do later if it gets into this situation again 17:12 sapier if I'm here I can do it myself but you might have to trigger me 17:12 VanessaE I expect a similar situation in about 8 hours 17:12 VanessaE http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/stats.html 17:12 VanessaE you can see yesterday's peaks were between ~1800 and 2000 or so, EST 17:12 VanessaE it's now about 1212 EST 17:13 VanessaE (the big spike at 0800 was the daily backup cycle) 17:14 sapier hmm you could add a ram usage statistic ;-) 17:14 VanessaE I thought about it. :) 17:15 sapier this would show packet queuing ... and therefore you could see texture downloads quite easy 17:17 VanessaE I guess just a generic "total used", "buffers", and "cached" would be sufficient. 17:18 sapier used and swap usage might be usefull ... cached ... as fat as I know linuy uses any free memory for disc cache so this number isn't very usefull 17:20 sapier a friend of mine once implemented a read ahead feature for processing large data ... just to see a speedup of exactly 0 ... because of linux builtin disc prefetch mechanisms already did this before 17:20 VanessaE there's 512MB of swap in the machine, but with 8GB of RAM, of which more than half is usually free, only 29MB of that swap is used :) 17:20 sapier yes I didn't expect swap to be anything else then store for rarely used memory pages 17:31 sapier VanessaE if you want to know which threads are using cpu you could apply this patch https://gist.github.com/sapier/8602068 17:31 sapier it's linux only 17:32 sapier after this you will see thread names as well as per thread cpu usage if you enter "top -H -p " 17:34 VanessaE per-thread, as in per-mod? or just per-some-generic-internal-minetest-thread? 17:34 sapier no 17:35 sapier per thread as in emerge thread server thread receive thread send thread 17:35 VanessaE right, so the latter :) 17:35 VanessaE still, that could be useful 17:35 VanessaE why not just merge that? (with appropriate ifdef's) 17:36 sapier I don't know how to do this on windows so I can't do a official pull request right now ... and I'd have to think about names in this case too as they're cut of right now 17:36 sapier e.g. async threads are all named identical ... they should have their number at end 17:37 sapier but of course those are minor things 17:37 sapier I could add a setThreadName to porting ... but someone would complain why this fct is empty for windows ;-) 17:37 sapier os specific ifdefs in other places then porting are crap 17:38 sapier at least for a feature that unimportant 17:42 Jordach someone might wanna deal with THIS again; https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/minetest./id717384883?mt=8 17:45 Jordach you might also want to poke Gambit from the forums, his pack has been stolen 17:45 xyz wtf 17:45 xyz i don't think it's even minetest 17:46 xyz did someone test it? 17:46 Jordach afaik, Gambit's stuff is CC-BY-ND-NC 17:46 Jordach and that mapgen is minetest's i know that 17:46 sapier that "sheep" seems to be a simplemob 17:47 rubenwardy Doesn't matter. It uses our name. 17:47 rubenwardy Has anyone legally registered "Minetest" as a trademark? 17:47 Jordach btw, MC textures are stolen 17:47 Jordach i'll poke Mojang too 17:47 xyz rubenwardy: lol 17:48 rubenwardy Yeah, I wouldn't expect anyone too 17:48 sapier you don't need to officially register a trademark in a lot of countrys 17:48 xyz the 3rd pic is definitely not minetest 17:48 Jordach yeah 17:48 xyz http://a1.mzstatic.com/us/r30/Purple/v4/7e/e8/30/7ee830f7-eb46-effa-adbb-ccd0bb746569/screen568x568.jpeg 17:48 Jordach xyz, i'll poke Mojang about it 17:48 xyz why? 17:48 sapier true the sky doesn't match 17:49 Jordach xyz, it's their IP 17:49 Jordach which the MC textures happen to BE 17:49 xyz no, I mean, why do you care? 17:49 xyz also did you dl it and cra^W check that they really use them? 17:50 Jordach xyz, their presence will have BC developers killed once and for all 17:50 xyz I don't understand 17:50 xyz why do you want to contact mojang 17:50 xyz what will you say 17:50 xyz hi i found this game which has one screenshot which looks a bit like your game 17:50 rubenwardy I think you should, as long as they don't sue US by mistake. 17:50 Jordach xyz, copyright infringement 17:51 xyz inb4 celeron55 gets sued 17:51 xyz well that'll sure be fun 17:51 Jordach xyz, the engine part 17:51 xyz hm? 17:51 Jordach cannot* 17:51 Jordach we know for a fact that this isn't legal via the LGPL 17:51 xyz did you download it? 17:51 Jordach xyz, no 17:51 xyz then you should stop being so gigantic faggot 17:51 Jordach why would i pay those tards who made BC 17:52 xyz how can you know without even downloading it? 17:52 sapier you don't have a proof so be very very carefull 17:52 Jordach xyz, there's a image with the MC farming texturews 17:52 xyz and this proves that it's based on Minetest how exactly? 17:52 Jordach with G4JC's almost MC pack 17:53 rubenwardy 1) Check that they do infringe the copyright (buy and check). 2) If so, send email to Mojang, stating the problem, and making sure the Minetest community is not affected. 17:53 xyz haha 17:53 rubenwardy Or just file a complaint/ DMCA with Apple 17:53 rubenwardy easier 17:53 xyz you guys sure have nothing better to do 17:53 xyz well then have fun, I guess? 17:54 rubenwardy !title https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=127211#p127211 17:54 ShadowBot rubenwardy: Forum message — Minetest Forums 17:54 rubenwardy no, it's not 17:54 rubenwardy no, it's not 17:54 rubenwardy no, it's not 17:54 rubenwardy !title https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=127211#p127211 17:54 ShadowBot rubenwardy: Forum message — Minetest Forums 17:54 rubenwardy ^ ShadowNinja 17:55 PilzAdam rubenwardy, this is not #minetest 17:55 rubenwardy Yep. That was to xyz. 17:55 rubenwardy And it is on topic, ish 17:57 xyz what? 17:57 xyz also I don't think you can just file DMCAs left and right 17:59 rubenwardy or do a cease and desist notice. 18:00 PilzAdam we should have a seperate channel for this, since its not really core dev related; maybe #minetest-ripoffs 18:00 rubenwardy lol 18:03 rubenwardy http://translate.minetest.ru/projects/minetest/core/ is down 18:04 rubenwardy lol 18:10 * sfan5 throws the GEMA at john_minetest 18:20 sapier VanessaE I know what happens in your case 18:21 sapier You've got >30 clients, this reduces max packets per step to 1000/30 -->34 packets. therefore if you receive just a single position update from each client per step no other unreliable data can be sent to this peer within this step 18:23 sapier set it to 2000 to handle about 60 clients 18:25 sapier hmm not exactly 2000 is only enough for ~45 18:26 sapier you need almost 4000 to handle 60 clients 18:26 sapier network load increases n² 20:06 daswort is there a DB where i can look which crafts are already in use by mods? 20:12 sapier no 20:12 anadon Hey, I've gotten deep into re-factoring the code, and am running into some trouble. How is src/activeobject.h generated? 20:12 sapier I don't think we have any generated code 20:13 sapier "deep into re-factoring" sounds like a lot of changes? 20:13 anadon could you run find for that file on your repo then? It doesn't seem to be in mine. 20:13 anadon The build system is touchy on my machine so I'm working on improving it. 20:13 sapier src/activeobject.h 20:13 anadon which is a whole lot of hurt. 20:14 anadon mhm 20:14 anadon weird 20:14 anadon ok, must have made a rm mistake. 20:14 sapier you are aware of refactoring huge parts of minetest doesn't improve chances for merge of a change? 20:16 sapier It's even hard for core devs getting support for refacoring small parts ;-) 20:42 xyz anadon: can your changes be seen somewhere? 20:55 anadon xyz: they are too mangled for me to let on someone else. 20:55 anadon I'll be back on tonight if you want to talk about it. 20:55 anadon (classes) 20:55 sapier1 what do you intend to do? 21:11 xyz anadon: alright, although I'm even more curious now! 21:11 xyz meanwhile, a patch https://github.com/freeminer/freeminer/commit/edd354b83be0fe72f7da85cdaca8e47301cf64dd 21:12 ShadowNinja anadon: Could you provide more details? We wouldn't want you to waste your time if we can't accept it... 21:13 sapier xyz is 5.0 the trigger time? 21:13 xyz yes 21:13 xyz it's slightly-bigger-than-default (2.0) 21:14 xyz before if you connect to server too fast (in less than 2 seconds, singleplayer game) you won't receive any blocks for those 2 seconds 21:14 sapier what do you think about adding a define this way we wouldn't have to change two locations. 5.0 <-> 2.0 is a factor of 2.5? slightly? :-) 21:15 sapier I did a lot of changes in this area lets see if this still does what it does before 21:15 sapier -does +did 21:15 xyz yup, y'know float comparisons are inaccurate 21:15 xyz well you can change it to 1337.0 21:16 sapier yes but not as inaccurate as 2.5 ;-) 21:16 xyz sfan5: that's not how you fork Irrlicht 21:16 xyz sfan5: what I propose is: 21:16 sfan5 xyz: svn2git crashed 21:16 xyz really? 21:16 xyz well, anyway 21:16 sfan5 yes 21:16 sapier and we compare for >= (at least I hope so) 21:16 xyz you clone it with svn2git to separate branch 21:16 xyz then merge to master 21:16 xyz and then keep separate branch in sync and merge it to master when needed 21:17 xyz sapier: are you seriously going to argue on such simple small thing? 21:17 sapier no no don't get me wrong I'm not arguing ;-) 21:17 xyz sfan5: well if you're fine with what I suggest I can try it 21:18 sfan5 yes, i'm fine with it 21:18 xyz although I'm not sure if I want to contribute to that your repo :P 21:20 sapier why the hell does git patch think this change is in SetBlocksNotSent? 21:21 xyz you could've changed it by hand D: 21:22 sapier confusing patch ... not it's content put the patch surroundings ;-) 21:23 xyz sfan5: well, I guess that'll take a bit of time 21:23 sapier hmm maybe we should fix the issue mentioned here. there's no sane reason why this thread should be restarted 21:23 * sfan5 has enough time 21:24 xyz maybe 21:25 hmmmm hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm xyz, that's not a very good idea 21:25 hmmmm that might cause a race condition 21:25 hmmmm that is, starting emerge threads immediately 21:27 sapier we shouldn't rely on some sleep delays to avoid race conditions 21:28 hmmmm wait, what..? doesn't that delay starting emerge threads? 21:28 hmmmm and the delay seems to be 0 by default, not 5 21:28 hmmmm er not 2 21:29 hmmmm see a lot of freeminer changes seem to be tweaks to settings that modify the behavior of already established interfaces that aren't really solutions to problems 21:29 sapier if I interpret code correct and haven't missed another starting location emerge thread is started 2 seconds after server thread in current version 21:29 * hmmmm looks 21:29 hmmmm lol i get home from a week of code to do more code 21:29 sapier which is quite arbitrary ... why 2 not 5 or 10? 21:30 hmmmm i don't know. a lot of this stuff is arbitrary to begin with. 21:30 sapier but I guess it's a startup delay in worst case. If there's a race condition it should be handled by a sync point 21:31 hmmmm ahhh i see what it does 21:31 hmmmm 5.0 is not how long it takes for the emergethread to trigger 21:31 hmmmm it's the initialization of the counter that's greater than the interval 21:31 hmmmm really all it needs to be is 2.0 21:32 hmmmm but this is a meaningless patch 21:32 hmmmm the emergethreads are started immediately 21:32 sapier yes but I'd prefere to use a synchornisation point if there's a race condition and start this thread only once 21:32 hmmmm in fact that block of code in asyncrunstep is dead 21:32 hmmmm as in it doesn't do anything 21:33 hmmmm you modified it sometime ago it seems, but it was useless before then too 21:33 hmmmm ever since I redid the emergethreads 21:33 hmmmm it was a hacky "fix" to a bug that was gone for quite some time, and now people misconstrued it as the starting point for the emerge thread 21:33 sapier :-) ok lets remove it ... removing bugs by removing code is best way to do it ... as you don't have to look for the bugs 21:33 xyz they don't start immediately 21:34 xyz since this patch fixes it 21:34 sapier maybe we should start them immediatly? 21:34 sapier could be a bug introduced by switch from simple to jthread 21:34 hmmmm let's see 21:35 sapier I guess I have interpreted this to be starting location too 21:36 hmmmm emergemanager is created right after the serverthread is created, mapgens are initialized, environment is initialized 21:36 * hmmmm blinks 21:36 hmmmm initMapgens() doesn't start the associated emergethread? 21:37 hmmmm wtf 21:37 hmmmm in any case the environment needs to be initialized before the emergethreads are started 21:39 sapier good to know. I intend to cleanup server stap by step as it seems to have more dead code in there 21:39 hmmmm the serverthread isn't started in the Server ctor 21:40 hmmmm oh the server initialization is pretty order-critical 21:40 hmmmm we need to collaborate together on that one 21:40 hmmmm also it's a huge mess 21:40 hmmmm i'd like to do some cleanup of my own 21:40 hmmmm except with environment initialization and how it binds together with the emergethread 21:41 sapier yes I'm thankfull for any help in there as it will save me some days of trial and error 21:42 sapier I've added proper client state handling in #1116 but it's still quite experimental if you have time to review the changes you're welcome 21:42 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1116 -- Add proper client initialization by sapier 21:42 xyz oh i also wanted to propose another patch 21:42 sapier just propose it ;-) 21:44 sapier does anyone know how to give a name to a windows thread? 21:45 hmmmm lol. http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/xcb2z8hs.aspx 21:45 hmmmm undocumented yet documented 21:46 hmmmm that is incredibly hacky looking 21:46 sapier true 21:46 hmmmm (is that what you meant by name? or did you mean like a named pipe or something) 21:46 sapier but lots of win32 code looks hacky to me :) 21:47 sapier no the thread itself like used in linux to show threadnames in top -H -p 21:47 hmmmm oh.. this is for debugging purposes 21:47 hmmmm I don't think you could have thread names in windows... 21:47 sapier :-/ so we can add a empty dummy for windows only :-/ 21:48 xyz https://github.com/freeminer/freeminer/commit/bdf9ae3739c0a42fa62851f72a256cb065215229#diff-ad60d65b34e16a3319296bb5d683acd6R983 https://github.com/freeminer/freeminer/commit/ca356c53f38640eae7f2d58f9f1c5f887a4acbf4 21:50 hmmmm hmm don't see the heap-use-after-free in the firsto ne 21:51 hmmmm also I think that's a bad idea to delete the environment before clients are deleted 21:52 xyz it's a bad idea why? 21:52 sapier because player is read from env 21:53 sapier if anyone calls a function triggering player usage in between it's gonna crash 21:54 sapier I've reduced player usage but I didn't make sure it's never used ... and I don't know where all those functions are called from .... almost everyone has a copy of server class pointer 21:54 sapier same for env pointers 21:54 hmmmm that's because everybody needs one 21:54 xyz ah now i'm not sure if my changes don't introduce another possible heap-use-after-free 21:55 hmmmm what's the first heap-use-after-free...? 21:55 xyz anyway, ~ServerEnvironment calls ~ServerMap which calls ServerMap::save which calls ServerMap::saveMapMeta which goes to EmergeManager::setParamsToSettings 21:55 sapier shouldn't we cleanup this mess by adding adding proper encapsulation? not at once but step by step 21:56 hmmmm ahhh. 21:56 hmmmm that's pretty hidden 21:56 sapier most time "player" is only used to fetch it's name from ... I had to move the name to RemoteClient for delaying player appearance maybe we can use this name at some locations where player is used by now 21:57 xyz yea so hidden it happens every time so.. 22:00 xyz although map probably should be deleted after both environment and emergemanager 22:02 hmmmm hmm 22:03 hmmmm I think a better way of fixing this would be to remove setParamsToSettings from saveMapMeta 22:03 hmmmm or is it 22:04 hmmmm too tired to think straight :( 22:06 hmmmm honestly the mapgen params should be in Map 22:06 hmmmm but they aren't because that's not what gets passed along to the emergethreads 22:06 hmmmm but anyway yes, i agree, the emergemanager should be deleted a lot later than it is currently as lots of things depend on it 22:07 hmmmm emergethreads should be stopped, clients deleted, then the environment gets deleted 22:07 hmmmm and then after all that emergemanager gets deleted 22:07 hmmmm the whole point of deleting the emeregmanager early in the shutdown process like that is to stop the threads anyway 22:27 sapier does anyone know why there are reliable as well as unreliable active object messages? 23:31 ShadowNinja xyz: Can you add a favicon to the wikis? 23:31 xyz later 23:33 xyz and send me the favicon too 23:36 ShadowNinja xyz: The Minetest logo, same as the forum. 23:39 kahrl sapier: I guess unreliable is meant for movement and reliable is for long-term state changes? 23:56 sapier hmm maybe can't see it from data beeing sent ... the message itself isn't dissected