Time Nick Message 00:44 BlockMen is it intended that seed is not reset in mainmenu after creating world? 01:16 VanessaE regarding the weird brightness of lava: 01:16 VanessaE git bisect reports: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6435258/ 01:17 VanessaE I confirmed this with a manual rollback from HEAD. 01:17 VanessaE before that commit, shaders brightness on lava was fine. at or after, lava flowing is way brighter than the source. 01:22 hmmmm there's literally nothing there that could possibly have that effect 01:22 VanessaE I know. 01:22 VanessaE but I checked it twice. 01:22 hmmmm is it possible that you had shaders disabled for the longest time and you didn't notice it? 01:22 VanessaE I'm not even sure anymore 01:22 VanessaE did you see the screenshots I posted? 01:22 VanessaE wait, you couldn't have 01:23 VanessaE with shaders: http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/screenshots/Screenshot%20-%2011172013%20-%2007%3a12%3a51%20PM.png 01:23 VanessaE without: http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/screenshots/Screenshot%20-%2011172013%20-%2007%3a14%3a29%20PM.png 01:24 VanessaE well I can see where he changed it from requiring a number to 'true' in the config. 01:25 VanessaE so maybe they were just turned off in the prior commit 01:25 * VanessaE grumbles. LOUDLY. 01:25 VanessaE all I wanna do is help fix this shit 01:26 * VanessaE signs, grumbles, and tries again 01:26 VanessaE sighs* 01:27 iqualfragile so git bisect is just like some kind of binary search? 01:27 VanessaE sorta yeah 01:27 RealBadAngel funny, for me without shaders there are differences between flowing and source 01:27 VanessaE RealBadAngel: same for me. 01:27 RealBadAngel and source is brighter 01:27 VanessaE ditto 01:27 RealBadAngel not the flowing one 01:27 hmmmm hmm 01:27 RealBadAngel a sec 01:27 VanessaE but with shaders, the screenshots clearly show the opposite, and starkly so. 01:28 RealBadAngel http://i.imgur.com/fQljGJs.png 01:28 hmmmm now, vanessae, you said you bisected it twice 01:28 RealBadAngel this is without shaders and default textures 01:28 hmmmm but did you check the immediately surrounding commits? 01:28 VanessaE hmmmm: once. Then rolled back manually. 01:28 hmmmm you should try that 01:28 VanessaE I'm about to re-check it from further back, and do that ^^^ too 01:28 hmmmm yeah 01:30 VanessaE ok, enable_shaders = 2 in the prior commit still shows the broken lighting. 01:30 * VanessaE goes back. 01:30 RealBadAngel VanessaE, theres a difference in brightness even without shaders 01:30 VanessaE I know. 01:30 iqualfragile RealBadAngel: i think that one is intentional 01:31 iqualfragile wasnt the brightness of the sourceblocks higher? 01:31 RealBadAngel what i have noticed that the lava flowing surface is closer to horizontal as source, it gets brighter 01:31 RealBadAngel it depends on angle 01:32 RealBadAngel same applies to water, but its harder to notice 01:32 VanessaE ok, let's take this all the way back to 0.4.6. :P 01:35 VanessaE jesus, how far back does this go?? 01:35 VanessaE why have I not seen this until now? 01:35 iqualfragile VanessaE: the binary search is faster if you just start with the commit introducing shaders 01:36 iqualfragile as oposed to extending the range every few tries 01:37 RealBadAngel iqualfragile, the difference is noticeable WITHOUT shaders at all 01:37 iqualfragile RealBadAngel: i do not think that this is the same problem 01:41 RealBadAngel actually for me with shaders colors look quite the same 01:42 VanessaE does ANYONE here have a moderl opengl implementation? 01:42 VanessaE modern* 01:42 RealBadAngel with shaders: http://i.imgur.com/VapGrej.png and without: http://i.imgur.com/MXbKFkO.png 01:45 ShadowNinja Why doesn't this work anymore? It worked when I made it but it hasn't worked since: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/3d4d0cb5749a68436cccd08b7a135f9bb7527038 01:46 ShadowNinja I don't see any changes around there... 01:46 hmmmm is that mapgen v7 in that screenshot? 01:46 hmmmm why anybody would use that pile of crap is beyond me :D 01:47 VanessaE could it be because I build against irrlicht 1.8 01:47 VanessaE ? 01:57 RealBadAngel im using 1.7 01:58 VanessaE ok, it ain't 1.8, I'm working backwards and found at least one commit where shaders work properly (and I made damned sure shaders are actually enabled) 01:58 * VanessaE continues to test. 02:00 VanessaE http://pastebin.com/Bk41FWLZ 02:01 VanessaE now THAT looks like it might be related :) 02:02 VanessaE jesus that goes back a while 02:03 RealBadAngel i start to have a feeling that color channels are somehow swapped 02:04 VanessaE I'm double-checking now. 02:14 VanessaE ok that confirms it 02:14 VanessaE cd1f604ffe6130fd7d3a8358a8cebd7f821f9a11 really does break the shaders. 02:15 VanessaE I confirmed by re-cloning, git reset --hard to one commit before, build and check the result, the reset --hard to that ^^^^ one and check again 02:15 VanessaE and I made 100% sure my shaders are turned on via the conf and comparing to what the .example says 02:15 VanessaE now what do I do? 02:15 ShadowNinja VanessaE: Does "git revert " on master HEAD work? 02:16 ShadowNinja s/work/fix it/ 02:16 VanessaE I could try but I somehow doubt it. 02:16 VanessaE sec. 02:17 VanessaE no good. 02:17 VanessaE that causes a conflict, and I suck at resolving git conflicts. 02:19 us`0gb ShadowNinja: I just tested /msg with the latest dev version, and it seems to still be working (not displaying "-!-") for me. 02:20 ShadowNinja us`0gb: Hmmm... Lemme re-check this. 02:21 ShadowNinja us`0gb: "Server -!- PM from singleplayer: test\nServer -!- Message sent!" 02:22 us`0gb That's odd ... 02:22 us`0gb The lower message has it for me, but not the upper. 02:25 hmmmm alright let's see this 02:26 hmmmm well yeah I think that could do the trick vanessa 02:26 hmmmm but that's over a year ago 02:26 VanessaE yes I know 02:26 hmmmm if it was really bothersome why haven't you done this until now 02:26 VanessaE shows how rarely I use lava 02:26 VanessaE plus perhaps at the time, I had an older opengl than I have now? 02:27 hmmmm hmmm 02:27 hmmmm nope, that has nothing to do with this 02:27 VanessaE actually that wouldn't matter 02:27 hmmmm remember, you went to the one before this commit and it worked perfectly for you 02:27 ShadowNinja VanessaE: Can you reproduce that "Server -!- " bug? 02:27 VanessaE yes 02:27 VanessaE exactly 02:27 VanessaE ShadowNinja: how? 02:27 ShadowNinja VanessaE: /msg singleplayer test 02:28 VanessaE in current HEAD? 02:28 ShadowNinja VanessaE: Check if the "PM from..." line starts with "Server -!- ". Yes. 02:28 VanessaE sure. sec 02:29 VanessaE hmmmm: I seem to remember talking to c55 about brightening the lights, and I think that commit was the result, but I guess no one thought to see how it affected lava 02:29 VanessaE and I so infrequently run into lava that I just hadn't noticed until recently. 02:29 hmmmm vanessae, try adding: if(gl_Normal.y <= 0.5) color *= 0.7; to line 47 in client/shaders/test_shader_2/opengl_vertex.glsl and see if that makes a difference 02:30 hmmmm well it's probably not line 47 anymore... I mean put it in between where you set the color components and the alpha component at the end of the shader 02:30 VanessaE hmmmm: sure, gimme a sec. 02:31 hmmmm there's also another minor difference but I'd like to see if this fixes it first 02:31 VanessaE hm. 135kB/sec to fetch media from the server. [notbad.png] 02:35 VanessaE ShadowNinja: indeed I see the Server -!- bit. 02:36 ShadowNinja Ok, but why? The code seems correct. 02:36 ShadowNinja hmmmm: Can you check it? 02:36 VanessaE hmmmm: like so? http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6435493/ 02:36 us`0gb SO why do you two see it and I don't? 02:37 us`0gb *So 02:37 VanessaE wait, above that. 02:37 ShadowNinja us`0gb: What version do you have? 0.4.7-stable? 02:37 VanessaE hmmmm: like this, rather? http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6435497/ 02:37 us`0gb No, a dev version I updated to yesterday. 02:37 hmmmm vanesyes, like that 02:38 hmmmm vanessa yes* 02:39 VanessaE hmmmm: as a matter of fact, that did improve it. 02:39 VanessaE let me re-check with HDX. 02:40 us`0gb ShadowNinja: http://www.tiikoni.com/tis/view/?id=9bdecd2 02:41 ShadowNinja us`0gb: Yay for impossible bugs that only show up most of the time! 02:41 VanessaE hmmmm: yep, that's got it 02:41 hmmmm great 02:41 hmmmm i have no idea why that was left out anyway in the first place 02:41 hmmmm soo commit that? 02:41 us`0gb Yeah, impossible bugs are great .... 02:41 VanessaE hmmmm: I'd say so....but what did I just do? 02:41 VanessaE :) 02:42 hmmmm you basically reduced the alpha transparency of the lava by 30% if the y normal was past a certain point 02:42 hmmmm so basically erm 02:42 VanessaE that's what I thought....but the alpha channel??? 02:42 hmmmm faces that are pointing at least 0.5 of a unit high 02:43 hmmmm yes, notice how you already assigned the color components before that statement 02:43 VanessaE yes 02:43 hmmmm the only other thing set using 'color' is the alpha channel 02:44 VanessaE lemme check this in a "wider" example. 02:45 VanessaE I think the flowing could stand to be a tad darker 02:45 VanessaE maybe *0.6 ish 02:46 VanessaE (or the source should be brightened to match) 02:47 VanessaE wait 02:47 VanessaE new problem... 02:48 VanessaE the flow direction looks....strange. 02:48 VanessaE screenshot in a sec 02:49 VanessaE http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/screenshots/Screenshot%20-%2011172013%20-%2009%3a48%3a58%20PM.png 02:49 VanessaE um...why is the texture being turned to an angle on flowing? 02:49 VanessaE that looks horrible 02:51 VanessaE (I hadn't noticed before because I was only doing simple straight lines) 02:53 hmmmm that's odd 02:53 VanessaE I did not, btw, put the suggested 0.6 in. 02:53 hmmmm and definitely not related 02:53 hmmmm does that not happen anymore if you take what I said out? 02:53 VanessaE I'll check 02:54 hmmmm I agree it does look pretty bad though 02:54 hmmmm (did we just never notice it?) 02:54 VanessaE I think s 02:54 VanessaE so* 02:54 VanessaE two or so days' worth of commits ago, it seemed fine, but don't quote me on that. 02:55 VanessaE hm, no. as expected, your change was not the cause of the diagonal textures. 03:05 RealBadAngel youre changing colors depending on surface normal? 03:06 RealBadAngel thats why i was getting similar colors when surfaces were closing the same angle 03:12 RealBadAngel surface normal .y doesnt mean coordinates of node 03:16 hmmmm no it means the angle 03:16 RealBadAngel of the whole surface 03:17 hmmmm .y <= 0.5 I assume means that the face is at most 30 degrees from surface level in either direction 03:17 hmmmm from flat i mean 03:17 RealBadAngel somethin like that 03:18 hmmmm right 03:18 RealBadAngel and that was exactly the reason the colors were different on whole surface 03:18 RealBadAngel http://i.imgur.com/iGRemHY.png 03:18 hmmmm and the steepest face possible is 45 degrees 03:18 hmmmm so that code in theory should always trigger for *any* visible face of a flowing liquid 03:19 hmmmm to see if I'm right, just change that code to color *= 0.7 and see if it stays the same as it is before the normal.y check 03:20 RealBadAngel notice it can have negative values 03:20 hmmmm that's true 03:20 hmmmm I'm not really sure what that changes though 03:21 RealBadAngel simply, starting from some angle colors were multiplied by a factor 03:21 RealBadAngel and were different from unmodified ones 03:22 RealBadAngel somebody wanted to darken lower part of node with it 03:22 RealBadAngel but ended with changing colors for whole tiles 03:23 RealBadAngel simply assuming tile (flat one) can have different normals is wrong 03:24 RealBadAngel flat surface will always have just one (or the very same for each point) normal vector 03:24 hmmmm right 03:25 hmmmm so in other words the original cause of this bug was a massive mixup 03:25 RealBadAngel to darken only bottom tile one should check for exact value of normal.y 03:25 RealBadAngel not just < than something 03:25 hmmmm whoever did the shaders probably intended to have that darken code only for the flowing liquid, not solid nodes 03:25 hmmmm they mixed up the first and second shader file (maybe?) 03:26 RealBadAngel i think it was supposed for solids 03:26 RealBadAngel and just bottom tile 03:26 hmmmm I guess... 03:27 RealBadAngel i will fix the issue in liquids 03:27 hmmmm but that doesn't explain why there was that glaring bug there for a year 03:27 RealBadAngel i fought with that when creating textures for water and lava 03:28 RealBadAngel but that was at the very start 03:28 hmmmm yea 03:29 VanessaE hmmmm: simple: the variance in color between the lightest and darkest points of the lava texture is so wide that you can't really see it 03:29 VanessaE until you put in a texture that doesn't vary so sildly 03:29 RealBadAngel well, every bug sooner or later will be killed ;) 03:29 hmmmm haha 03:29 VanessaE otherwise it just got lost in "noise" I think 03:29 hmmmm nope 03:29 hmmmm not *the* screwed-up-shadows bug 03:30 RealBadAngel what shadows? 03:30 hmmmm there's no way that's ever going to be fixed unless we generate all possible blocks in that sector first 03:30 hmmmm this is why minecraft has such a low height limit but it works for them at least 03:31 RealBadAngel ah that 03:31 VanessaE hmmmm: so anyway, I guess go ahead and commit the *0.6 change 03:31 hmmmm 0.6? 03:31 VanessaE er 0.7 03:31 hmmmm yeah, good 03:31 VanessaE typo 03:31 hmmmm we don't want that to be inconsistent from the results without shaders 03:32 hmmmm (although I bet it's still different to some degree) 03:32 RealBadAngel that code shall be completely removed 03:32 RealBadAngel it doesnt belong here 03:32 hmmmm yeah I saw your shader cleanup 03:32 hmmmm crazy @_@ 03:32 hmmmm looks very good, but it's totally 0.4.9 material 03:33 RealBadAngel have you seen Bumped texture pack that uses it? 03:33 hmmmm I've seen some of your screenshots 03:33 RealBadAngel try it live 03:34 RealBadAngel shaders are doing self shadowing 03:34 RealBadAngel pictures are not enough 03:35 RealBadAngel effect is like VanessaE said, game looks like those prerendered animations 03:43 hmmmm well 03:44 hmmmm i play F.E.A.R. a lot 03:44 hmmmm that uses an insane amount of normal bumpmapping 03:44 hmmmm I do know what I'd be looking at yeah 03:45 VanessaE hmmmm: actually I was referring to the style and lighting quality 03:45 VanessaE not so much what the normals actually *look like* 03:45 VanessaE some of those MC "cartoons" have the same look as those screenshots 03:47 RealBadAngel http://i.imgur.com/YpBuL1V.png 03:47 RealBadAngel fixed water at least :) 03:50 VanessaE RealBadAngel: but its...angled. 03:50 VanessaE like the lava. 03:50 VanessaE ick. 03:50 VanessaE for water it *might* work okay 03:50 VanessaE but for lava, fuck no 03:50 VanessaE at least not with the default texture thereof. 03:51 RealBadAngel thats not mine invention, i have no idea who did that 03:51 RealBadAngel that have to be done somwhere in mapblock_mesh.cpp 03:52 RealBadAngel and rotatin textures by angles <90deg 03:52 VanessaE yeah I know. 03:53 RealBadAngel i havent touched that piece of code 03:53 VanessaE I know I know :) 03:53 VanessaE can you fix it though? 03:54 VanessaE of course you can, what am I saying :P 03:55 hmmmm vanessae, by the way did you roll back minetest by like a week and see if the ugly diagonal flowing lava is still there 03:56 VanessaE not yet. I will check that now. 03:57 VanessaE (got sidetracked :P ) 03:58 VanessaE goes back into september. 04:00 hmmmm so wtf? because I never noticed that until now either 04:01 VanessaE idk 04:01 VanessaE I'm attempting to find out. 04:01 VanessaE I guess we just don't play in lava enough? ;) 04:02 VanessaE (or water) 04:02 hmmmm no idea 04:02 hmmmm i don't play enough period 04:06 RealBadAngel i have fixed and cleaned liquids shaders 04:11 RealBadAngel goin to sleep now, its past 5am already 04:14 VanessaE [3ee80987086a99803f5a812089ae253ab509cb68] Diagonal liquid animation 04:14 VanessaE still bisecting, but I bet this is related. 04:14 VanessaE yep 04:14 VanessaE that's where bisect lands. 04:15 VanessaE how come we never noticed the diagonally-rotated textures? 04:15 RealBadAngel link to commit? 04:16 VanessaE https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/3ee80987086a99803f5a812089ae253ab509cb68 04:18 RealBadAngel yeah thats it 05:05 hmmmm do you guys not like it? 05:05 hmmmm it's growing on me honestly 05:06 VanessaE with water, it's fine I guesa 05:06 VanessaE guess* 05:06 VanessaE but with the default lava texture, G*d no 05:06 VanessaE it forms "stripes" 05:06 hmmmm you can make it optional i guess 05:06 VanessaE which looks horrible with that default texture 05:12 VanessaE hmmmm: your 0.7 tweak breaks water :( 05:12 hmmmm how so? 05:12 VanessaE it makes it turn kind of a dark, translucent reddish 05:12 hmmmm oh that's fantastic... 05:14 hmmmm could it be that the water's transparency level was changed later to compensate for the bug? 05:14 VanessaE possible. 05:15 VanessaE lemme see how it looks with defaults. 05:16 VanessaE oh you'll like this :)\ 05:16 VanessaE http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/screenshots/Screenshot%20-%2011182013%20-%2012%3a16%3a25%20AM.png 05:16 VanessaE that dark red stuff is default water : 05:16 hmmmm alright now that is crazy 05:16 VanessaE :D 05:17 hmmmm water looks nothing like that for me 05:17 hmmmm it's true that it's a shade too dark and too transparent so it looks reddish up against dirt 05:17 hmmmm but it's not like that at ALL 05:17 VanessaE has Moses come by to smite the water or something? 05:17 hmmmm that has got to be an ati bug or something 05:18 VanessaE now I'm not sure I put that tweak in the right place. 05:19 VanessaE client/shaders/test_shader_2/opengl_vertex.glsl line 45 or so? 05:19 hmmmm yeah 05:19 VanessaE right after color.r/color.g/color.b 05:19 hmmmm yes, you did it right 05:19 VanessaE lemme go back to mainline, see if maybe one of my few patches did it 05:23 VanessaE hm, seems okay there. 05:28 VanessaE I may know why. 05:29 VanessaE RBA's reworked shaders branch somehow got into my local_patches (thought I backed everything out?) 05:29 VanessaE so it's okay. 05:29 VanessaE his branch is busted. 05:30 VanessaE funny screenshot though :) 05:30 VanessaE so yeah/ 05:32 VanessaE push your tweak, but make it *0.65 05:32 VanessaE that seems to be just the right balance between defaults and HDX 05:37 hmmmm no it's not good 05:37 hmmmm like I was saying, the flowing water is a fair bit darker now, probably because the flowing water transparency was modified 05:38 VanessaE oh I misread that 05:39 VanessaE I thought that was a reference to that false-red-water thing. 11:42 iqualfragile params.AntiAlias for createDeviceEx is an u8, not an u16 11:43 iqualfragile http://irrlicht.sourceforge.net/docu/structirr_1_1_s_irrlicht_creation_parameters.html#a50602e6ae0cc3d79ca7df0aa8114e75a 11:57 iqualfragile RealBadAngel: i think the problem about bumpmaps is that there are no "real" light sources 12:30 RealBadAngel yes, we dont have any lights 13:37 EvergreenTree I have noticed a problem with the inventory image for the jungle sapling: http://i.imgur.com/MhJjAI1.png 13:38 EvergreenTree Since it is pretty much the same code as the regular one, it shouldn't be any different 13:38 EvergreenTree I think VanessaE had a problem with this, I think it has something to do with the plantlike drawtype 13:39 EvergreenTree It is especially strange, as the regular sapling looks normal, but the jungle one doesn't. They are practically the same code, so I have no idea 13:41 EvergreenTree Is anyone here? 13:53 RealBadAngel yes 13:54 RealBadAngel btw, bug: default_book.png texture is 16x17px 15:37 OldCoder I am napping but on way out: Latest git no longer cross-compiles for Windows. Error is gettext.cpp 'stderr' was not declared in this scope 16:15 OldCoder Follow-up: Commenting out the line in gettext.cpp which uses stderr allows MT to be built again for Windows 16:16 OldCoder Jordach, PM sometime if you saved your Blender Cat Model 17:29 sapier proller do you need help splitting your big aio patch to usefull smaller parts? 17:30 proller for waiting years for merge? 17:36 Exio4 the only big patches that got merged are so far big patches for a single feature 17:39 iqualfragile sapier: he closed all his pullrequests and put them into a single one 17:39 iqualfragile proller: please: reopen your pullrequests 17:39 Exio4 he fuck. 17:39 iqualfragile some will get merged 17:39 Exio4 the* 17:40 iqualfragile it took so long because minetest development slowed down a bit in the last 3 months 17:42 celeron55 it's due to a sum of many things, including that they are objectively quite controversial and eg. some of them break things that people like 17:44 celeron55 and have already broken things 17:51 Exio4 and stuff like weather is ugly in core 17:53 pitriss Hi, I got maybe useful idea: How about some halfmod privs in builtin? I mean privs which allows ppl to temporarily grant/revoke interact and shout? possible interval 10 minutes min, one day max? 17:55 pitriss This can help keep servers clean when moderators are not nearby... I think it would be cool to have some "sheriffs" which can temporarily solve some minor rule violations? 17:57 Exio4 you could write a script for that 17:57 pitriss *who can 17:58 pitriss Exio4: yes of course.. But I thought that can be useful for many servers.. ..and builtin is better place for such thing.. 18:04 kahrl OldCoder: see #1007 18:05 kahrl I guess there's no reason against merging that 18:10 sapier ShadowNinja do you have fixed your error handler now? imho it's anoying to replace a missing backtrace by a application crash ;-) 18:11 kahrl sapier: I don't remember, what was there to fix still? 18:13 sapier c_internal.cpp L60 makes std::string from lua_tostring which can be 0 ... shouldn't be of course but there seem to be situations where this happens 19:17 iqualfragile the anti alais setting uses a wrong type 19:17 iqualfragile it should be u8 19:49 OldCoder sapier, PM 21:34 ShadowNinja sapier: No. And gettext.cppis broken, it uses stderr which isn't defined there. Did you do that? 21:34 ShadowNinja +' ' 21:39 sapier I guess you're talking about non gettext build shadow? 21:40 ShadowNinja sapier: IDK, OC mentioned it, see logs. 21:42 sapier there's a fix for gettext.h I can't find stderr in cpp file 21:43 sapier Shadow no offence I wonder why this luaerror bug happens, according to sokomine serialization errors are involved 21:49 ShadowNinja sapier: How did she reproduce it? 21:49 ShadowNinja (I forgot) 21:50 sapier he did create a entity without collisionbox 21:50 sapier hmm without might be collisionbox accidently set to nil 21:51 sapier don't know if this does anything different