Time Nick Message 00:03 VanessaE RealBadAngel: the screenshots look nice but they also look like you're shining a spotlight on the landscape 00:03 VanessaE why are the centers of the shots brighter than the sides? 00:04 RealBadAngel intentional 00:04 RealBadAngel specular lighting uses view vector to generate shades 00:05 RealBadAngel it is tuned down, to be barely visible (but noticeable) 00:06 RealBadAngel thx to it surfaces are shadowing themselves 00:06 VanessaE yeah but the screenshots make it look like the light source is right above your head 00:06 VanessaE this is surely not intended. 00:06 VanessaE the light source should be wherever the sun is 00:06 RealBadAngel check it ingame 00:06 VanessaE (and any other light sources, eventually) 00:06 RealBadAngel i mean irl 00:06 RealBadAngel ;) 00:07 RealBadAngel shadows are depending on view angle 00:08 RealBadAngel and i dont mean specular lighting here 00:09 RealBadAngel shadows are done in two ways 00:10 RealBadAngel first is geometry oclussion 00:10 RealBadAngel then bumpmapping 00:10 RealBadAngel angle of camera determines strenght of the effect 00:16 RealBadAngel http://realbadangel.pl/images/tin_ceiling.png 00:16 RealBadAngel example of very detailed, self shadowing texture 00:17 VanessaE code? 00:18 RealBadAngel code is out there for weeks 00:18 VanessaE link? 00:18 RealBadAngel i mean my branch 00:19 RealBadAngel point is to master gimp 00:19 VanessaE you mean the branch with the half-documented shader settings, busted water, parallax mapping that makes textures slide around on the cube surfaces, etc? 00:19 RealBadAngel thats why i have abandoned Haven 00:19 RealBadAngel and created Haven Next Gen 00:20 RealBadAngel water is a subject to another pull 00:20 VanessaE then start using proper branches and forks so this shit can be kept separate! 00:20 RealBadAngel mode 2 of parallax is mixed with mode 1 00:20 RealBadAngel and there are no more modes 00:21 RealBadAngel code limits itself 00:22 VanessaE so, where is the fork+branch of the code where only the solids shaders have been redone? 00:22 RealBadAngel on my hdd 00:22 VanessaE ... 00:23 RealBadAngel i am askin if i can pull it 00:23 VanessaE no one's gonna approve what they can't test reliablt. 00:23 VanessaE reliably* 00:25 RealBadAngel i am playing with evolving HavenNG for weeks already 00:26 RealBadAngel branch is aviable with many builds 00:26 VanessaE the code, damn it. not the texture files :) 00:26 RealBadAngel jesus christ superstar :P 00:26 RealBadAngel code is weeks old 00:27 RealBadAngel havent changed 00:27 VanessaE yes and is part of a fork that completely breaks the water when shaders are enabled, remember? 00:27 RealBadAngel shit 00:27 RealBadAngel what have i said? 00:28 VanessaE unmolested source or it's all photoshopped :) 00:28 RealBadAngel i would like to push reworked shaders part (solids) 00:28 RealBadAngel without water atm 00:28 VanessaE push != pull 00:29 RealBadAngel semantics 00:29 RealBadAngel u know what i mean 00:29 VanessaE no, I don't. 00:30 RealBadAngel i mean with it: code is stable enough for me to create and enjoy 256x new generation texture pack 00:31 RealBadAngel which leaves all behind 00:31 RealBadAngel and i MEAN it 00:33 VanessaE so post the code to a clean repo somewhere so we can try it out? 00:39 kahrl there is a feature freeze in effect, this can't go in before 0.4.8 is released 00:40 kahrl (why isn't this in the topic?) 00:47 RealBadAngel kahrl, i dont demand it to be merged prematurely 00:48 RealBadAngel im far from it 00:48 kahrl oh, I misunderstood then 00:48 RealBadAngel im rater askin if i will pull it 00:49 kahrl what do you mean by pull? 00:49 RealBadAngel other devs would like to test it 00:49 kahrl you can always make pull requests, no need to ask 00:49 RealBadAngel because imho its a feature thx to which game can shine 00:50 kahrl quite literally ;) 00:50 RealBadAngel kahrl, to be honest. before i was fighting for each and every line of code to be included 00:51 RealBadAngel now im askin folks to test what have i done 00:51 kahrl there are more core devs now so it might go faster 00:51 RealBadAngel i know the rules and i could use it 00:52 RealBadAngel *them 00:52 RealBadAngel shit, i just wanted a bit of applause ;) it took me a few months :) 00:53 RealBadAngel and all i got was c55 saying: its not my style 00:54 RealBadAngel kahrl. do you know what attribute for shaders is? 00:55 kahrl I think that's a field in the vertex structure? 00:56 RealBadAngel attribute is an variable set for each shader instance (material) 00:56 RealBadAngel tangent is such a variable 00:57 RealBadAngel there are global variables 00:57 RealBadAngel which we can use 00:57 RealBadAngel but irrlicht is missing per material (per shader instance) variables 00:59 RealBadAngel theres no problem to get normal vector 00:59 RealBadAngel but tangent IS a problem 01:00 RealBadAngel makin the problem more general 01:00 RealBadAngel theres no way to pass variables, vectors, data to shader 01:00 RealBadAngel per instance, not in general, for all of them at once 01:01 kahrl if you only need tangents, you can use S3DVertexTangents I believe 01:01 kahrl but yeah that solution doesn't scale to more attributes 01:01 RealBadAngel i should transform SMesh to IMesh 01:02 kahrl transform? 01:02 RealBadAngel smesh and imesh are not compatible 01:02 kahrl SMesh is a subclass of IMesh 01:03 RealBadAngel from what ive read, to get tangent space in shaders 01:03 RealBadAngel you have to make a copy of mesh 01:03 RealBadAngel with tangents 01:04 RealBadAngel but problem is we are using different ones 01:04 kahrl with IMeshManipulator::recalculateTangents? 01:05 RealBadAngel createMeshWithTangents 01:05 RealBadAngel or so 01:05 RealBadAngel but it would mean to get whole mt world 01:06 RealBadAngel and recalculate tangents for it 01:06 kahrl can't it be done at the end of mesh generation? 01:07 RealBadAngel i do have tangents calculated in mapblockmesh 01:07 RealBadAngel i just need a way to pass it to shader 01:07 RealBadAngel as an attribute 01:09 RealBadAngel i managed to achieve this for a somple switch 01:09 RealBadAngel *simple 01:09 RealBadAngel material texture set to be black or white 01:10 RealBadAngel so i have bound to instance bool value 01:10 RealBadAngel im using it to indicate if normal texture is provided or not 01:11 kahrl isn't it expensive to check that switch in every instance of the shader? 01:11 kahrl wouldn't it be faster to use a different shader depending on the switch? 01:11 RealBadAngel no, its one pixel check 01:12 kahrl still 01:12 RealBadAngel sorry, texel 01:12 RealBadAngel at the start i also thougth so 01:12 RealBadAngel but i do have many effects 01:13 RealBadAngel it ended with cascade of shader instances 01:13 RealBadAngel this off that on 01:13 RealBadAngel endless chain of copy pasta with slight changes 01:14 RealBadAngel now im back to 3 shaders 01:14 kahrl I see 01:14 RealBadAngel lemme point you to the code 01:15 kahrl wasn't there a plan to automatically generate a shader from a set of effects? 01:15 RealBadAngel https://github.com/RealBadAngel/minetest_GLSLshaders/blob/master/client/shaders/solids_shader/opengl_fragment.glsl 01:16 RealBadAngel this doesnt work such way 01:16 RealBadAngel we should render to a buffer for multiple shaders be able to work on the data 01:17 kahrl unfortunately framebuffers can be very slow on less fortunate hardware, or so I heard 01:18 RealBadAngel yes 01:18 RealBadAngel but "if" is not so slow 01:19 RealBadAngel im on 1.8ghz dual core, 4gb ram 01:19 RealBadAngel radeon hd 4670 01:19 kahrl well, I meant more concatenating the scripts for the individual effects to get one shader 01:19 RealBadAngel with 256x textures, with all my changes i do get 60 fps 01:19 kahrl rather than applying each effect as an individual shader 01:20 kahrl that's pretty nice 01:20 RealBadAngel its used box 01:20 kahrl I don't get 60fps with the current shaders :P 01:20 iqualfragile kahrl: please take a look at the pull requests 01:20 iqualfragile there are lots qued up, i think at least some of them deserve merging and all deserve reaction 01:20 RealBadAngel kahrl, my shaders code have some speed ups ;) 01:21 RealBadAngel but still 01:21 RealBadAngel i need some1 to work with me on the subject 01:21 kahrl iqualfragile, there were 80+ a few days ago 01:21 kahrl now there are less than 69 01:21 iqualfragile which is progress 01:21 iqualfragile but not a good state yet 01:22 RealBadAngel ive managed to get oclussion to usable state 01:22 RealBadAngel thx to many weird tricks 01:22 kahrl iqualfragile: I can take a look at them occasionally but don't have time to do it on a regular basis 01:23 kahrl and they just keep pouring in 01:23 iqualfragile i am just worriing a bit… 01:23 RealBadAngel kahrl, would you like to help me with it? 01:23 iqualfragile it seems like nobody would realy feel responsible for minetest development… 01:24 kahrl RealBadAngel: I don't really have the time for it :/ 01:29 iqualfragile there are pull requests still open from over a year ago 01:30 iqualfragile maybee create some special date where some coredevs gather? 01:30 iqualfragile merge-monday? 01:31 kahrl well you mean like #238 01:32 kahrl > local fuck = {} 01:32 iqualfragile no, not like that one 01:32 iqualfragile that one would be closable 01:33 iqualfragile more like that one https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/237 01:33 iqualfragile it is realy not that much of a change 01:33 iqualfragile and the only thing that people fight about is how long it should sleep 01:34 iqualfragile and then nothing happens 01:34 iqualfragile bikeshed phenomen 01:35 kahrl well obviously none of the core devs get 100% cpu usage in the pause menu so it never was an issue for them 01:36 kahrl and finding a value that works for everyone and doesn't look ugly is actually the hard part 01:36 iqualfragile might be true but just setting that to 50 ms would help the case a lot 01:36 iqualfragile you could even make it configurable later on 01:36 iqualfragile but right now nothing changed 01:40 iqualfragile i think the best way to deal with this would in fact be a merge monday where at least 3 coredevs gather and merge or close at least 5 pull requests 01:44 RealBadAngel kahrl, from what i know you were the one that brought shaders to mt 01:44 RealBadAngel so youre the one i should ask for help 01:44 kahrl RealBadAngel: indeed I did 01:45 RealBadAngel i am failing with very basic things 01:45 RealBadAngel passing vectors or tables bound to material 01:46 kahrl although I pretty much only read some tutorial on how to load and compile GLSL/HLSL shaders with irrlicht and made that into a ShaderSource class 01:46 RealBadAngel so did i 01:46 kahrl I don't actually know anything about shader programming 01:46 RealBadAngel last months ive learned a lot about opengl 01:47 RealBadAngel now i can understand what i need 01:47 RealBadAngel and irrlicht engine confuses me 01:47 kahrl iqualfragile: well at the moment only RBA and I are online, and neither of us are very active in the pull requests scene. maybe ask again when other core devs are online? 01:47 kahrl is* 01:47 iqualfragile i did and i got ignored multiple times… 01:48 RealBadAngel did you know that parallax maping is a material type in irrlicht? 01:48 kahrl I guess they don't want to then 01:48 iqualfragile but i have to admid that i was not monitoring minetest actively in the past month or so 01:48 iqualfragile which core devs do you think are most active at the moment? 01:48 RealBadAngel so bumpmapping is 01:49 kahrl RealBadAngel: yeah irrlicht has some odd mix of fixed pipeline and shaders 01:49 RealBadAngel and, to be more as a joke 01:49 RealBadAngel all those effects are hardcoded in asm 01:49 RealBadAngel as a shaders of course 01:51 kahrl iqualfragile: can't really say 01:51 iqualfragile is anyone realy active? 01:51 Exio4 they are but at different times 01:51 kahrl the new ones do quite a lot of stuff right now 01:51 iqualfragile names? 01:51 Exio4 shadowninja 01:52 Exio4 and nore? and sapier? 01:52 Exio4 and kahrl is somewhat active, too! ;P 01:52 kahrl BlockMen, nore/Novatux, ShadowNinja, sapier 01:52 Exio4 blockmen is coredev? didn't know 01:53 kahrl heh, I'm just procrastinating in here but not actually working on code 02:01 iqualfragile oh, wonderfull, now its too late 02:01 iqualfragile i strongly disagree with the timing of this feature freeze 02:02 kahrl the feature freeze has been going on for over a week 02:02 kahrl nobody bothered to put it into /topic for some reason 02:10 iqualfragile oh… ok 02:11 iqualfragile was it announced anywhere? 02:11 kahrl dunno 02:11 iqualfragile will 0.4.8 be the christmas release? 02:12 kahrl yes 02:12 iqualfragile hmm… 02:12 kahrl note that I didn't say christmas 2013 or 2014 or ... ;P 02:12 iqualfragile well, anyways, good night 02:13 kahrl night 02:17 proller again destroyed env_meta.txt and all files in players ... 02:38 RealBadAngel kahrl. i will post rework tomorrow,hope u cold review it 03:23 VanessaE ok, we got map corruption going on here along the bottom edge of the world 03:23 VanessaE 22:15:42: ERROR[EmergeThread1]: Invalid block data in database (0,-1933,-1) (SerializationError): deSerializeBulkNodes: decompress resulted in invalid size 03:23 VanessaE third time this has happened, again at the same Y coordinate, but this time at a different X/Z location 03:23 VanessaE 0.4.8 CANNOT GO OUT like this! 03:26 Warr1024 are you using leveldb or sqlite? 03:27 VanessaE sqlite. 03:27 VanessaE I've reproduced this in singleplayer also, on a new map 03:40 kahrl what mods? 03:41 VanessaE well tons of mods of course, but nothing I haven't been using for months on-end 03:41 Warr1024 isn't there some maximum size for a compressed mapblock, so that having too much node metadata, or a very incompressible node arrangement, could cause problems, couldn't it? 03:42 VanessaE the root question though kahrl, isn't what mods do I have (none that can write to the map, afaik), but why the engine is allowing writes to a block that can't possibly exist, and why it's bothering to try to read from that block. 03:43 kahrl well you did mention the bedrock mod 03:43 VanessaE no 03:43 VanessaE I removed that mod, and it turns out that mod wasn't configured to generate a bedrock layer anyway 03:43 VanessaE so about all it did was add a few nodes. 03:44 kahrl because I can't seem to reproduce the same problem with just minetest_game and a new map 03:45 VanessaE I was able to reproduce it simply by teleporting down, clearing a small room, and placing a few torches. 03:45 VanessaE I figure it's ore generation doing it 03:46 VanessaE and when someone did the same on the server, they were able to make it crash by adding a travelnet box, which is just a normal node that triggers the teleport-player function 03:46 VanessaE (with a formspec) 03:48 kahrl maybe I need to try a different seed 03:48 kahrl restarted the server a couple times, dug a lot of nodes, nothing so far 03:49 VanessaE one sec and I'll upload the current iteration of my game 03:50 kahrl oh! 03:50 VanessaE http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/VanessaE_Game.tar.bz2 03:50 kahrl I managed to get the "suspiciously large amount of objects detected" message 03:50 VanessaE oh good! 03:50 VanessaE that's what I was getting in singleplayer 03:50 kahrl by punching a pile of gravel that generated at the very bottom 03:51 VanessaE now add a travelnet box ( https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=4877 ) there and at the surface, and transport up/down a few times 04:03 kahrl the longer you stay at the bottom of the map at a time, the larger the number of removed objects gets 04:04 kahrl I suppose this makes the mapblock hit some kind of sqlite blob size limit or something 04:05 Warr1024 maybe the mapgen should just stop generating falling_node stuff below a certain depth? 04:05 Warr1024 or alternative, deal with them in some better way if they fall into oblivion 04:07 kahrl I haven't waited long enough to actually hit the limit yet (it hasn't crashed yet) 04:07 kahrl but yes something needs to be addressed 04:07 kahrl I wonder what it does if I were to apply #1000 04:07 VanessaE thing is, in my singleplayer test, there were NO entities in the area. 04:08 VanessaE the number of objects must be the result of misreading some other field 04:08 VanessaE kahrl: I have #1000 applied already 04:10 kahrl how long did you have to stay at the bottom for it to crash? 04:10 VanessaE idk, I didn't get a crash out of the singleplayer test, but cheapie managed to get several crashes in a row within a couple of minutes after it started 04:11 VanessaE all I got out of singleplayer was the same error you got 04:13 kahrl I didn't get the message until I played with entities (made the gravel fall or dropped some item into oblivion) 04:14 VanessaE maybe because I have wield3d 04:14 VanessaE it uses an entity attached to the player's hand to create the wielded item 04:14 kahrl ah, yeah 04:16 kahrl 20000000 objects (which took around 5 minutes to accumulate) are not enough to trigger the crash 04:16 VanessaE it may not crash in single player at all 04:16 VanessaE try running that map in a standalone server maybe? 04:17 kahrl unlikely since singleplayer is a server and a client 04:18 kahrl I just suspect the guy on your server was doing something else and had the offending mapblock loaded for a long time 04:18 VanessaE I'd have thought so too, but I've had instances in the past where a singleplayer combo behaved very differently from separate server/client instances 04:19 kahrl I might go to sleep and leave minetest running 04:21 kahrl maybe not... it's starting to swap 04:21 VanessaE try it as separate instances first. might save some time 04:21 VanessaE oh my! 04:22 RealBadAngel kahrl, will you be there tommorow at the same time? 04:23 kahrl I don't know 04:23 RealBadAngel what is your time zone btw? 04:24 kahrl cat /etc/timezone => Europe/Berlin 04:24 RealBadAngel shit! 04:24 RealBadAngel i was living in Berlin for a few yrs 04:25 RealBadAngel Ick bin ein Berliner ;) 04:26 kahrl :) 04:27 hmmmm ryan@titan:/home/ryan % cat /etc/timezone 04:27 hmmmm cat: /etc/timezone: No such file or directory 04:27 hmmmm what 04:27 VanessaE kahrl: the reason it actually crashes for me might also be because I have like, a metric assload of RAM. maybe it reaches some "totally b0rk3d" point before I run out of RAM? 04:27 RealBadAngel no clocks on titan? 04:28 kahrl VanessaE: sounds plausible 04:29 VanessaE I had Survival suddenly go off into la-la land earlier. It hit 11GB before the OOM killer nailed it 04:29 RealBadAngel btw, VanessaE complained before bout 512x not workin anymore on her linux 04:29 hmmmm sapier didn't commit his RequestQueue patches? 04:29 VanessaE (though Creative is where the map bug happened) 04:30 RealBadAngel i were using 128x on debian and got 30-40fps 04:30 VanessaE 512px works, RBA, but unusably slow at the spawn on either of the two above servers. Different subject entirely. 04:30 RealBadAngel now im using enhanced shaders 256x, fresh win7 instal 04:31 RealBadAngel 60+ fps always 04:31 VanessaE hmmmm: I have that patch on my client, though idk if it's up-to-date. 04:32 VanessaE RealBadAngel: but is it in the same map and area of the map? 04:32 RealBadAngel even when loggin onto your server 04:32 VanessaE at the creative spawn? 04:33 hmmmm anyway I suppose that a big part of the reason why the original emergethread was so unstable was because it used RequestQueue 04:33 hmmmm which corrupts memory 04:33 VanessaE RealBadAngel: go ahead. I dare you :) 04:33 RealBadAngel what could i say 04:34 RealBadAngel Thorvalds already shown them a finger 04:35 RealBadAngel its all about drivers 04:35 RealBadAngel mt is way faster on windiows 04:36 VanessaE of course on my system, I've noticed things like windows that don't properly save and restore their contents, so a terminal under a minetest window will make the minetest window flicker and jump as it scrolls 04:36 RealBadAngel at least client 04:37 RealBadAngel 30fps max on lnux and 60+fps on windows 04:38 RealBadAngel sad to say, but windowss is cool to test my shaders code 04:39 VanessaE so, is minetest/irrlicht just not using the linux drivers to their fullest? surely there's a reason 04:42 VanessaE maybe c55 is right and we need to bring the texture atlas back...but make it way bigger 04:43 VanessaE (darkrose made minetest-classic's atlas 4x the size of 0.3.3's. 512px works great there) 04:47 VanessaE kahrl: so...anything interesting yet? :) 05:13 Warr1024 so this whole thing runs on udp, so it has to do retransmissions manually, right? 05:13 Warr1024 does anyone know how long it takes for the server to retransmit during a player emerge? 05:14 Warr1024 I keep getting stuck at downloading Node Definitions, probably due to a lost packet due to wifi timing shit. 05:31 hmmmm there's TCP but apparently it doesn't work right for some reason and nobody can really investigate because nobody has the time to do so 05:32 hmmmm on another note, it's amazing what funding can do. I can really understand now why celeron wanted to try to monetize minetest or at least a derivative of it 05:33 hmmmm if people had a way to live off of working on minetest they'd sure as hell find time to work on this stuff 05:35 Warr1024 it would probably be pretty hard to make enough to support more than one developer... 05:35 Warr1024 so at best, you might be able to swing one full-time guy. 05:35 Warr1024 seems like you'd be lacking something though without other members of the core team... 05:35 hmmmm that's definitely true, everybody brings something to the table 05:36 Warr1024 yeah, and it's not like you can spread the funding around so that each of the core devs can quit like 2% of his/her job. 05:37 Warr1024 of course, a full-time reviewer and integrator (with some time left over for some dev) might not be bad. 05:57 RealBadAngel ============================================================================================================]] 05:58 VanessaE allright who let RBA's cat onto thekeyboard? 06:03 OldCoder Can he or she code? 12:27 nore does anyone know why proller closed all his pull requests? 12:34 nore celeron55, is #1000 finished, or should we wait a bit more for it? 12:39 celeron55 has VanessaE reported that it works? 12:39 celeron55 or someone else with some heavy testing on it 12:57 Jordach celeron55, i've seen client side dupes, but no actual true dupes 12:59 Jordach celeron55, http://i.imgur.com/zrlAcfz.png 13:00 Jordach 1000 works, but client side dupes happen too 13:16 iqualfragile proller: why did you close all your pull requests? 13:30 troller iqualfragile, they joined into one: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1010 13:31 iqualfragile troller/proller that is quite a bad idea 13:31 troller i cant support lot of pulls, too many conflicts 13:31 iqualfragile the chance of getting that merged are minimal 13:31 troller its not my problem 13:33 troller i want to make something good, and i cant with 20+ pulls 13:44 PilzAdam lol, troller, that will never be merged 13:44 troller as other pulls.. 13:48 iqualfragile PilzAdam: what would you think about a merge-monday 13:48 PilzAdam I dont have time at mondays 13:49 iqualfragile where you (as in the core devs) force yourselve(s) to merge or close/comment at least 5 pull requests 13:49 iqualfragile well, it does not have to be a monday 13:49 iqualfragile because right now the situation is horrible 13:49 iqualfragile there are lots of people willing to contribute to minetest but they get frustrated because of missing feedback 13:49 PilzAdam we actually merged quite a lot of pull requests last weekend 13:50 iqualfragile i know, around 12 13:50 iqualfragile which is progress 13:50 iqualfragile but thera are still tons of pull requests 13:50 iqualfragile and some are more then a year old 13:50 PilzAdam the problem with a set task is that the quality might suffer 13:50 iqualfragile troller/proller i would recommend to close this pull request and reopen the smaller ones 13:51 iqualfragile this one will never be merged 13:51 iqualfragile PilzAdam: how so? 13:51 iqualfragile as i said 5 to either merge or close/comment 13:51 PilzAdam if we merge for the sake of merging and not to get good code then the quality may decrease 13:53 iqualfragile PilzAdam: as i said: merge or close/comment 13:53 iqualfragile the only thing it would cost would be a bit of time 13:57 iqualfragile additionaly there are quite some pull requests which are quite good but need some kind of litle modification to be perfect, those modifications would cost somebody who knows his way around in the minetest code 20 minutes max 13:59 nore I have a question: should I rewrite completely force loading? If so, could you tell me what you would think of the API I'm thinking of? 14:01 nore the idea: minetest.get_forceload_handler() -> returns a force_load handler 14:01 nore handler has a few methods: -> force_load_block(blockpos) 14:01 iqualfragile for example 385 or 237 14:02 nore returns true or false if it can be force_loaded 14:02 nore -> free_block(blockpos) --> idem 14:02 nore and perhaps some get_loaded_blocks too 14:03 nore but the idea would be a limit of forceloaded blocks for each mod 14:03 nore and no mod can force load more than that limit of blocks at a time 14:03 nore so, what do you think of that? 14:13 iqualfragile nore: force loading is for letting blocks stay active even when all the players leave the area, right? 14:13 nore yep 14:13 iqualfragile so for example for farming 14:13 iqualfragile i think the beter way to deal with this would be to save some timestamp of when the block was unloaded 14:13 iqualfragile and then pass the difference between the current time and the timestamp to every node in the block so they can react acordingly 14:13 nore that's already done 14:13 iqualfragile it is? 14:14 nore (there is a pull for that for furnaces working when unloaded wy simulating them again) 14:14 nore however, the objective is to be able to change the area even when players are far away 14:15 nore for example, there could be a technic quarry that mines items, and sends them 1km further, where a player gets it 14:15 PilzAdam https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/934 any objectios? 14:15 nore to access the area too, and to be able to keep entities active mainly 14:16 nore PilzAdam, none 14:16 iqualfragile nore: interesting idea 14:16 iqualfragile and in fact a totaly different usecase 14:16 iqualfragile can you point me to that other pull request? 14:16 nore you mean, the current one? 14:17 iqualfragile PilzAdam: can you explain why there are mapgen_x materials? 14:17 nore https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/606 14:17 PilzAdam iqualfragile, the mapgenerator outputs mapgen_* to not depend on certain mod prefixes 14:18 PilzAdam its up to the game to decided which material to place at the position of e.g. dirt 14:18 iqualfragile nore: nah, i meant the one where the passed time is passed to the nodes upon reloading the block 14:18 nore ah, it is https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/200 IIRC 14:18 PilzAdam nore, should I add a mapgen_ice alias to minetest_game? 14:19 nore PilzAdam, I think so (dunno if 0gb_us has already done that though) 14:19 PilzAdam there is no pull request from him 14:19 nore then yes, you should add an alias for that... 14:19 iqualfragile nore: well… that one is just for furnaces… 14:20 iqualfragile it would be nice to have some kind of uniform thing for that 14:21 PilzAdam hmmmm, what do you think about https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/934 ? 14:21 nore iqualfragile, yes, I know... perhaps an ABM parameter max_block_reload_simulate_times or something like that... 14:21 hmmmm ugh 14:21 hmmmm I'll scoop it up with my latest mapgen v7 revamp 14:22 hmmmm I feel like my mountains are starting to look better now that I'm using an exponential height decay 14:22 PilzAdam so #934 can be closed? 14:22 iqualfragile PilzAdam: thanks for working on pull requests :D 14:23 hmmmm it can 14:24 PilzAdam iqualfragile, Im quite limited since we have a feature freeze... 14:25 iqualfragile PilzAdam: yes i know 14:25 iqualfragile i think the timing for this feature freze is quite bad 14:25 nore PilzAdam, what would you think of that new API for force_loading? should it even be done? 14:26 iqualfragile there are some pull request which would be wonderfull to have in the christmas release 14:26 iqualfragile will list them 14:28 PilzAdam when you look at the pull request list then youll notice that pages >= 2 only contain feature enhancements 14:29 nore PilzAdam, ^ 14:32 hmmmm hmmm 14:32 PilzAdam https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1006 I can reproduce the crash and can confirm that it fixes it 14:32 PilzAdam it was probably copied code from "tiles", which allowes 6 entries 14:35 PilzAdam any objections to merging it? 14:35 nore nope 14:35 hmmmm sounds good 14:36 hmmmm hmmm 14:38 nore why does nobody want to tell me anything about the force loading new API proposal? 14:38 PilzAdam nore, maybe people need to think about it first? 14:39 nore yeah, but I had not even a word... but I can wait a bit... ;) 14:40 iqualfragile ok, categorized them: first fixes ordered in decreasing order of importance: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1000 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/744 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/977 14:42 iqualfragile next: graphical goodies again most important first: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/799 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/385 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/583 14:48 PilzAdam this seems good: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/998 any comments? 14:48 nore yep: it is good 14:50 hmmmm where is that sapierrrr 14:51 hmmmm do you think we should just commit his requestqueue patches for him and release? 14:51 iqualfragile nearly done: next gameplay improvements: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/816 (this one would be especialy awsome because minecraft does not have it :D) https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/866 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/958 14:51 PilzAdam we need to fix https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues?milestone=1&state=open too 14:51 iqualfragile and then there is this one: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1001 which would be quite important for server administrators fighting against griefers 14:51 iqualfragile if these could get a secound look i would be happy 14:52 iqualfragile nearly done: next gameplay improvements: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/816 (this one would be especialy awsome because minecraft does not have it :D) https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/866 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/958 14:52 iqualfragile looks like quassele would not handle connection losses very well 14:55 PilzAdam nore, I merge it then 14:55 nore ok (but I didn't test it though) 14:56 PilzAdam well, I have tested it (and I guess sapier too) 14:59 PilzAdam iqualfragile, I merged or commented on nearly all pull requests that are mergeable during a feature freeze now 15:12 iqualfragile ok, thanks 15:13 hmmmm minetest.get_connected_players().... wasn't that optimized by that one guy? 15:13 hmmmm just recently 15:13 hmmmm that could probably be the source of the problem 15:14 PilzAdam https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/2170c9958a455c228459c795857ec1a890cd05c5 15:14 hmmmm i suppose what could be done is revert that patch and figure it out for after 0.4.8 15:14 PilzAdam that is already linked in the issue 15:14 hmmmm do you see any obvious causes for the bug in that code? i'm looking at it right now 15:15 PilzAdam I already wrote about it in the issue 15:15 PilzAdam we could check value:is_player() when creating temp_table in misc.lua 15:16 hmmmm hmmm the code looks solid 15:17 hmmmm see, I'm juggling around 3 scripting languages every day, so forgive me for asking this stupid Lua question: 15:17 hmmmm if table.foo is never set to anything, it's nil, right? 15:17 nore yep 15:17 PilzAdam yep 15:17 hmmmm for k, v in pairs(table) would only retrieve values that are not nil 15:17 hmmmm regardless of whether they've been set to nil before or not 15:18 nore yep 15:18 nore wait... so why does the code crash? 15:18 hmmmm so that can't be the source of the problem 15:21 hmmmm oh disregard that, I didn't realize you already found what's wrong 15:21 nore PilzAdam, since you merged #998, you should close #996 and #997 15:21 hmmmm yeah you should add that is_player check 15:21 nore ah, p being nil... (I thought it was player too) 15:22 PilzAdam nore, thanks for reminding me 15:22 nore (I'm quite surprised #997 got labeled as blocker, though) 15:32 PilzAdam VanessaE, can you test if the crash reproduces with this patch: https://gist.github.com/PilzAdam/7501466 ? 15:32 PilzAdam (the one in simple mobs has to be removed) 15:35 hmmmm PilzAdam, when is that code you pasted in the issue executed? 15:35 hmmmm on step or something? 15:35 PilzAdam on_step of each mob 15:35 hmmmm okay 15:36 hmmmm well Environment::step is run after handlePeerChanges() 15:37 hmmmm so handlePeerChanges runs, calls on_leaveplayer, which updates the external lua player list 15:38 hmmmm so lemme check if objects are updated between the time those two execute 15:39 hmmmm which they aren't 15:40 hmmmm anyway, the "official" way of getting around this problem is to ignore players with a peer_id of 0. can you access that from lua? 15:42 PilzAdam AFAIK no 15:43 hmmmm I say that checking is_player() won't work since that only checks to see if the reference to the player is not null; which it won't be since the object list hasn't yet been updated by the time the environment step runs 15:43 hmmmm so the recommended fix for this, I'd say, is to introduce a new API that gets the peer id so you can compare against that. 15:44 PilzAdam is it for any use for mods? or do we just offer it to builtin? 15:44 hmmmm does it matter? 15:44 PilzAdam adding useless stuff to the API is not really good 15:46 hmmmm well, alright. since nobody mentioned wanting a peer id from lua, I suppose it could just be a 'middle' function for builtin but not for the end user 15:46 hmmmm call it, ObjectRef::is_player_connected() 15:46 hmmmm l_is_player_connected() rather 15:47 hmmmm ObjectRef *ref = checkobject(L, 1); Player *player = getplayer(ref); lua_pushboolean(L, player && player->id != 0); return 1; 15:48 hmmmm make that player->peer_id 16:53 celeron55 proller: what the fuck man 16:54 proller what? 16:54 celeron55 proller: that's right up being a prick and will only cause harm to everyone; it won't be merged and probably the stuff that it tries to fix will be reverted to their original state... 16:55 celeron55 your pull won't and can't be merged; there's no way it will happen because nobody can review that amount of stuff 16:55 hmmmm minetest-proller 16:55 hmmmm I would actually say that there's enough material there to make your own fork 16:56 proller lot of my pulls also "won't and can't be merged" 3+months 16:56 proller there is only one problem, how to name fork 16:57 hmmmm well, it heavily changes the game dynamics with all the weather and finite liquid related stuff 16:58 PilzAdam proller, my impression is that you dont want to create a nice game engine but a nice game; maybe forking 0.3 and bringing all your weather and finite liquids stuff in would suit you better? 16:58 hmmmm indeed, I think pilzadam is 100% right on that 17:00 proller 0.4 is good enough 17:02 celeron55 it would be good if ways to make weather possible without raping the engine nor raping the contributor who is making it were found 17:03 celeron55 but if not, then... i think the right action is to not add it and let the possibility emerge from more primitive things that are going to be added in the future 17:14 celeron55 the only strong combination of agruments for adding weather in the "proller way" requires the extra supposition that development is going to slow down in the future so much that it would never get done otherwise 17:15 celeron55 that's hard to predict, but predicting stuff in a short-sighted way like that can be a self-fulfilling prophecy 8) 17:17 celeron55 by the way, does anyone know how to reproduce client-side dupes as mentioned by jordach? 18:56 artur99 hi 19:07 OldCoder Hi 19:08 OldCoder artur99, you had a font question? 19:08 OldCoder https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/main.cpp#L1411 19:55 artur99 Romanian translatio is DONE! :D 19:55 artur99 *translation 20:16 OldCoder Ah 20:16 OldCoder You did announce it. PilzAdam ^ 20:39 OldCoder Hi. Reporting a possible bug that has now been observed by multiple people. Sometimes game load stops on Item Definitions and never starts again. Restarting world fixes it. Is this a possible network issue or other problem? 20:39 OldCoder Issue has been observed in different worlds by different people. Server is git about a week or two old. 21:46 thexyz OldCoder: how long did you wait before trying to reconnect again? 21:46 thexyz OldCoder: I think I had a related issue where server reports that it cannot emerge player 21:46 thexyz but after 1-2 mins I can connect to it 21:48 OldCoder thexyz, They were stuck for half an hour 21:48 OldCoder Multiple people 21:48 OldCoder It is happening to me right now 21:49 OldCoder Noticed it a week ago but waited to test before reporting it 21:49 thexyz what does the server output? 21:49 OldCoder Output where? In debug? 21:49 OldCoder No special messages in debug.txt. Item definitions simply hang. 21:49 OldCoder Happening right now to me 21:50 OldCoder harrison had it earlier but I restarted the world and then he got in 21:52 OldCoder thexyz, I could restart the world and get in but that would eject harrison. Suggestions are welcome. 21:52 thexyz no idea, sorry 21:52 OldCoder k 21:52 OldCoder thexyz, I think this is a core bug. I will repeat every 2 days or so. Is that all right? 21:52 OldCoder Waited a week before speaking. And it is a show stopper. 21:52 thexyz I think you should create an issue 21:52 OldCoder How is that done? 21:53 OldCoder And should I try rebuilding with git current first? But my copy is only about a week old. 21:53 OldCoder I restarted client twice and then could get in 21:53 thexyz https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/new 21:54 OldCoder thexyz, thank you! 21:54 OldCoder thexyz, I shall rebuild and test with latest. Then report. 23:10 iqualfragile what is the general plan for minetest 0.4.8? for example: should mgv7 be in it? 23:49 iqualfragile what license does the minetest icon use? 23:49 PilzAdam CC BY-SA 3.0 23:54 iqualfragile PilzAdam: where can i find that? 23:54 iqualfragile not the license, the notice that the icon uses that license 23:55 PilzAdam https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/README.txt#L253