Time Nick Message 00:17 VanessaE ShadowNinja: you never gave me your opinion on the revisions to #959 ... 00:25 proller i think.. i found... 00:25 proller IT 00:25 VanessaE IT? 00:25 proller IT!!! 00:26 proller source of server LAG 00:26 VanessaE wht what? 00:26 VanessaE spill it dammit 00:26 proller 5 min and i will push 00:28 VanessaE wait, what IS the problem? 00:28 proller server process only one packet per step 00:29 proller every client generate 10 only for move 00:31 VanessaE so 10 packets come in from a client, but only one of them gets processed? 00:31 VanessaE are you absolutely sure that you're about to change this for the better? 00:32 VanessaE I could see this causing a rise in CPU load on the server if the packet flow isn't reduced a bit to compensate. 00:34 proller usually step faster than 0.1s 00:34 VanessaE well 00:34 VanessaE 10/sec is the current default 00:34 proller but if you use lot of mods with liquid_finite - step can be longer 00:34 VanessaE riiiight 00:34 proller 10 clients generate 100 packets per second 00:35 VanessaE eek 00:35 proller if all moving 00:35 VanessaE I can see that affecting a lot more than just finite liquid servers 00:35 proller every server with lot of clients 00:55 proller runned on sky 00:55 VanessaE ? 00:57 proller https://github.com/proller/minetest/commit/a1da6a871c35ed71be94367a8797c3faf7d60076 00:58 VanessaE so you'll process up to 100 packets per server step? 00:58 proller yes 00:59 kaeza that could be made configurable 00:59 proller but usually less 00:59 proller no need to configure it 00:59 VanessaE it might be a good idea to make it configurable, yeah 00:59 VanessaE in case someone has a high-end server that can handle say several thousand packets/step 01:00 proller who want to test - welcome to "Sky" 01:00 pitriss i second that ide a to make it configurable 01:02 proller ok 01:03 VanessaE it might be prudent to test out the 100 limit on a high-traffic server, in case that much is still too high of a default 01:03 VanessaE (slow machines, etc) 01:05 proller now i will try on my odroid 01:08 proller seems much better 01:09 VanessaE connect to it from several clients 01:09 VanessaE try to flood it with connections - simulate a very busy server 01:10 VanessaE even to the point of *almost* DOS'ing it. 01:16 proller my opengl broken 01:16 proller i use software render 01:19 proller four of me, need more 01:20 VanessaE four ain't enough :)\ 01:20 VanessaE you need about 20 or 30 of you ;) 01:23 proller its problem for my notebook 01:23 VanessaE address? 01:23 VanessaE I'll flood it ;) 01:24 proller 80.240.216.69:30010 01:24 proller or "Sky" in servers 01:26 proller cooool 01:26 VanessaE there, is that enough? :D 01:27 VanessaE I have a lot of RAM to burn ;) 01:28 VanessaE STOP! MY MODEM IS BURNING!!!!!!! 01:28 VanessaE :D 01:28 kaeza Mine's still downloading media :< 01:29 proller 100% cpu 01:29 VanessaE all of mine are still awaiting media also 01:30 proller blocks not loading 01:30 kaeza 100% CPU is not very... informative 01:30 kaeza which CPU? OS? 01:30 VanessaE kaeza: I nailed him with 13 live minetest clients :D 01:31 kaeza O_O 01:32 proller i core of corei7 freebsd 01:32 proller problem with media 01:32 proller need to join slower 01:32 kaeza VanessaE, random_input = true? 01:32 VanessaE nope 01:32 VanessaE I didn't even think about that 01:33 proller but game playable 01:33 VanessaE shall I cancel them all out? 01:33 proller instant blocks placing 01:33 proller wait please 01:33 kaeza that setting wil come in handy here, since it simulates a real live client 01:33 VanessaE thus far none of them have completed the login process 01:33 VanessaE (one of them appears to be crashed) 01:34 proller sending files via udp is.. is.... 01:34 VanessaE is...slow until kahrl finishes his http_fetch work 01:34 VanessaE which will be soon, I[m sure 01:34 proller now better 01:35 * VanessaE kills off the crashed client 01:35 proller it still playable 01:36 VanessaE shall I add a few more clients? 01:36 proller can 10 more 01:36 proller now 18 01:38 VanessaE I now have 22 clients open :) 01:38 VanessaE my CPU is screaming bloody murder at me :) 01:38 proller but there are already max_users=30 players. 01:39 proller block loading problem 01:39 proller chat instant 01:39 VanessaE shall I kill these off yet? :) 01:40 proller dig-place instant 01:40 proller packets errs idrops bytes packets errs bytes colls 01:40 proller 677 0 0 58151 645 0 349476 0 01:40 proller 689 0 0 51810 681 0 326439 0 01:40 proller 691 0 0 48230 652 0 304881 0 01:40 VanessaE and leave-flood :D 01:40 VanessaE all but one (which seems to be the only one still alive) 01:41 VanessaE ha! 01:41 VanessaE I killed all those clients already 01:41 proller blocks loading ok 01:41 VanessaE not for me 01:41 VanessaE blocks are not reliably loading 01:42 proller need to try with http media 01:43 proller or slowly one-by-one join 01:49 kaeza oh also small typo: s/recieved/received/ 01:50 proller and playable on arm! 01:50 proller kaeza, ok 01:53 proller finite liquds flow fast on cpu from galaxy s2 01:55 VanessaE proller: have you done any work with the infinite/regular liquids to make them behave better? 01:56 proller only "range" removed 01:56 proller and levels adjustable too 01:56 proller and small visual fixes 01:56 proller and its not merged 01:57 VanessaE well I meant in terms of the water flowing readily without consuming tons of CPU for things like those huge fountains pilzadam and I tested with 01:57 proller and no sense touch old liquids because they not liquid 8) 01:58 proller smaller queue and longer liquid starting flow 02:00 VanessaE note to self: buy proller a book on learning to write complete sentences ;) 02:00 proller 8( 02:09 VanessaE aw I was only kidding :) 03:50 proller VanessaE, switched to remote media 8) 03:50 VanessaE ok 03:51 proller and max 100 users 03:51 VanessaE I'll attack in a few minutes :D 04:03 proller screen minetest --address 80.240.216.69 --port 30010 --go --name t1 04:04 VanessaE is THAT how it works?? 04:04 VanessaE ready? :) 04:08 VanessaE MUAHAHAHAHA! 04:09 kaeza dis gon b gud 04:10 VanessaE here come a few more 04:12 VanessaE proller: do I stop or keep going? 04:12 proller wait 04:12 * VanessaE waits. 04:13 VanessaE lemme bring up the last few that timed out. 04:13 proller they not fall 04:13 VanessaE I noticed that. 04:14 proller strange 04:14 VanessaE they're all default, plain unmodified client 04:14 VanessaE (null video, random input turned on) 04:14 proller maybe still not recieved spawn block 04:14 VanessaE maybe 04:14 VanessaE a lot of them are dieing with floating point exceptions (!) 04:14 VanessaE [66] Floating point exception(core dumped) minetest --address 80.240.216.69 --port 30010 --go --name test-user-$i --config ~/.minetest/minetest.conf-flooding 04:15 VanessaE why is your spawn point so high up, anyway? 04:16 proller its fun 04:16 proller and anti - grief 04:16 proller cpu ~50% 04:17 proller net 100-200 pps 04:17 VanessaE looks like I can top out at 29 clients 04:17 VanessaE after that I seem to get lots of float point exceptions 04:18 proller mem 158356k 04:18 VanessaE wow 04:19 VanessaE not bad. 04:19 proller but need to optimize block-sending 04:19 proller i thing 100 players is not limit 04:19 proller think 04:20 proller after optimize 04:20 VanessaE yep, I'm maxing out at a clean 29 clients. 04:20 ShadowNinja Hmmm, better talk to someone else familiar with the net code, but that sounds great! 04:21 VanessaE oh wow, my CPU's maxed out completely. 04:21 VanessaE all 6 cores at 100% 04:22 VanessaE BAM! leave flood ;) 04:22 proller player action instant 04:22 VanessaE here comes the next wave. 04:23 proller most lag on joins 04:23 VanessaE yeah 04:23 VanessaE and now I seem to have botched my password. mind resetting it? 04:24 proller on my server? 04:24 VanessaE yeah 04:24 proller need to restart 04:24 VanessaE ok 04:25 proller i think enough 04:25 VanessaE ok 04:46 VanessaE 80.240.216.69:30010 1/100, 45 04:46 VanessaE haha 04:54 VanessaE I'm off to bed. good luck, proller 05:40 celeron55 why don't you just put it on VanessaE's server 05:40 celeron55 real-life testing tends to give useful results 05:41 celeron55 and you didn't even test it without the patch 05:44 celeron55 now that i look at it, that fix does exactly nothing 05:45 celeron55 if you look at what AsyncRunStep() does, it doesn't do anything unless enough time has passed since it was last called 05:51 celeron55 the thing wouldn't work even in singleplayer if it wasn't so 05:56 ShadowNinja VanessaE: #959 looks better, although it needs some tweaks(shorter lines, foolproofing for unknown nodes, and a few others). I still would like infinitestacks to be detected in the function, but I don't know how that should be done. 05:59 ShadowNinja I notice there are three nick-quiets and a nick-ban in here, which are completely ineffective. <-- celeron55? 06:01 ShadowNinja Night for me too, bye. 07:22 nore any thoughts on #976? 07:47 proller celeron55, my server is real and runned without patch more than half year 08:04 proller and it works even in singleplayer 08:41 celeron55 obviously it works because it changes nothing 08:42 proller grep lag debug.txt | wc -l 08:42 proller 208 08:43 proller it solves problem 08:43 celeron55 no it doesn't 08:43 celeron55 look at the god damn code 08:43 celeron55 i'm not going to even argue with this 08:43 proller okay 08:44 nore celeron55, about the ABMs in Lua 08:44 nore I made speed tests 08:44 nore dirt and dirt_with_grass ABMs take each less that 0.25ms to execute for all nodes 08:45 nore and saplings take 150ms for each sapling that grows whereas it was 130ms before 08:45 celeron55 proller: it merely prioritizes incoming packets over server processing and outgoing packets resulting from the processing 08:45 celeron55 which lessens lag in certain things and increases lag in other things 08:46 proller celeron55, try to play in your game, try to join servers, not in your imaginary spacecraft simulator, in minetest 08:47 celeron55 nore: i saw that; i have no comments 08:49 celeron55 proller: make a clone of your server and run the other one without the patch and the other one with it 08:49 nore so you reckon it is fast enough? 08:50 celeron55 nore: i think there is no real alternative anyway 08:51 celeron55 (but it still remains a problem that there is duplicated tree-growing code) 08:52 nore about duplicated tree-growing code, trees could be changed to be made in Lua too 08:52 nore added by an on_generated on something like that 08:52 nore but I reckon it wouldn't be very efficient, though 08:52 celeron55 they should be changed to use the decoration functionality of the mapgen 08:52 celeron55 but is it ready yet? 08:52 proller celeron55, you can reproduce it in single player, liquid_finite=1 + 2 mobs mods, or just slow cpu (arm) - fast move to new area, debug packets - and you will see server process client moves after 1-2...10 ... seconds 08:53 nore yes, but decorations don't produce good trees 08:53 nore if changed, there should be a callback for decoration placement 08:53 celeron55 have you tried pilztest? 08:54 nore celeron55, I have, and I find the trees look all the same 08:54 nore they all have the same height, IIRC, and the same leaves pattern 08:54 celeron55 but it's not worse than the current trees 08:55 nore the current trees are all different... 08:55 proller maybe use 5-10 predefined schemes? 08:55 nore perhaps the best to do would be to wait for a mapgen gecoration placement callback, and then add the trees 08:55 celeron55 uhm... well, there definitely should be some way to make good trees with the mapgen 08:56 celeron55 without speed decrease 08:56 nore proller, yes, but that does not fix the issue of game-specific trees... 08:57 celeron55 what if some optionally enableable "tree-mangling" functionality was added to schematics placed as decorations 08:57 proller make tree api with lot of growing variants? random, scheme, ... 08:57 nore if a game wants different growing trees, how can we change the mapgen *for that game only* ? 08:57 celeron55 it would use some heuristics to make variation to the schematic 08:58 proller like minetest.define_tree({...params...}) 08:58 proller register_tree 08:58 celeron55 proller: the L-system thing exists for that purpose, really 08:58 celeron55 maybe it should be just fixed 08:58 celeron55 (fixed for speed) 08:59 celeron55 there are rumours that it's slow because of how it does lighting but i haven't looked into it 09:00 nore celeron55, the mapgen would have to be able to support trees registered in Lua 09:00 nore and the tree API will never be enough to support all kind of trees 09:01 proller l-tree now place only one tree, i'm about like-ore generator, just register your trees and place conditions, and it will spawn them automaticaly 09:01 nore so a tree growing function should be called each time a tree grows... 09:02 nore does anyone know how costly is a Lua call? 09:03 nore I mean, the time to make the call 09:04 proller depend on params 09:06 nore vm data, a voxelArea, a pos, a bool, an int 09:07 nore what would that cost? 09:08 celeron55 the mapgen uses a vmanip in itself, i guess hmmmm has some optimization in there to not require copying it? 09:09 nore dunno, perhaps tree code should be made one when this is done... 09:10 proller one for tree or 100 per node? 09:23 nore what I said while I had network problems: 09:23 nore ok, perhaps it would be better to have a function that is called for all trees at once 09:23 nore but anyway, the tree code is far too specific 09:23 nore they may only grow on grass and dirt on mapgen 09:23 nore so a game that wants to put trees in other places has to make its own tree generation 09:24 nore celeron55, ^ 09:25 celeron55 the decoration placement has been made to provide that kind of placement 09:25 nore perhaps I could try to put treegen in default... 09:25 nore yes, but decorations do not provide callbacks when placing 09:25 nore so one could place saplings with that, but no trees... 09:25 celeron55 let's add a callback-type decoration? 8) 09:26 celeron55 hmmmm might hate it but if it gets stuff done, it might be good 09:26 nore I guess hmmmm should do that... 09:26 nore why should he hate it? 09:26 sapier is it only my feeling or are current discussions more suitable to a merge window then a prerelease? 09:26 celeron55 speed problems are the only probable issue i guess 09:27 nore celeron55, yes 09:27 nore the idea would be to make all callbacks at once, from Lua and not C 09:27 celeron55 sapier: that's true 09:27 nore and only one callback from C 09:27 nore but that would still be slow 09:28 celeron55 how about leaving this tree and grass stuff to after 0.4.8? 09:28 sapier while I'm absolutely positive about improving tree generation I don't think this is something to be called a blocker for 0.4.8 09:28 nore well, I would like the ABMs to be removed from core before 0.4.8, or at least be disableable... 09:28 celeron55 and focusing on just adding all necessary fixes and releasing it, and then continuing from this after it 09:29 nore but the mapgen things could wait a bit 09:29 celeron55 at least proller and sapier have patches that are necessary to make things work 09:30 nore celeron55, perhaps add a setting in minetest.conf to disable core tree growing and core dirt/dirt_with_grass conversion 09:30 nore so games could change it if they want 09:30 nore and leave the other things to after 0.4.8 09:30 celeron55 nore: if you add a comment in the duplicate tree growing code that it's duplicate and will be replaced with something in the future, i guess the patch is fine 09:30 sapier and we have multiple ways to fix the modstore stalling right now we need to discuss and decide what's best to do ... both aren't "small" fixes 09:30 nore in the core one? 09:31 celeron55 nore: i was thinking of the minetest_game one, but maybe explain it in bot 09:31 celeron55 +h 09:31 proller after my night patch speed of abm not very important 09:31 nore the one that should be removed is the core one, isn't it? 09:31 nore anyway, I will add that in both 09:31 celeron55 i don't know 09:31 celeron55 really both will be removed eventually 09:33 nore WARNING: this code is duplicate and will get removed in the future. <-- I added that 09:33 nore is it ok? 09:35 celeron55 more like "NOTE: Tree-placing code is currently duplicated in the engine and in games that have saplings; both are deprecated but not replaced yet." 09:36 nore both deprecated? 09:37 celeron55 s/Tree-placing code/This tree-placing code/g 09:37 celeron55 yes 09:37 nore how will tree be placed then? 09:38 celeron55 with schematics or the L-system or something; not with that old code 09:38 nore if it is Lua decoration callback, it will be the same code... 09:38 celeron55 what invokes the tree-placing code isn't relevant 09:53 BlockMen #928 is ready to merge now 09:53 BlockMen and here the testing code: http://pastebin.com/YRGHVHk1 09:54 * BlockMen switch to hexadecimal colors and added kahrl's hexcolor-parser 09:59 nore celeron55, so, can it be merged? 10:06 celeron55 i think it's good now (in the context of the future plans) 10:09 sapier https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/977 ok here it is I did additional cleanup and documentation so it's ready for review 10:12 nore sapier, can it be called in_game too? 10:12 sapier not for 0.4.8 10:13 sapier it's planed to be added later but I don't want to open up a risky thing like that for upcoming release 10:13 nore ok... 10:14 sapier and of course prior adding all of those scriptapi functions need to be checked if they can be called from async ... quite some work 10:15 nore yes, but I mean can Lua-only things be called? 10:15 nore i.e., a voxelmanip data, and some parameters to do a lot of work 10:15 sapier of course those would work at once but I guess there isn't much use for it (except voxelmanip) 10:16 sapier and you should consider a async call is a costly operation so if you just switch some nodes it may be even more performant to be done synchronous 10:24 celeron55 should we add something to the topic mentioning this semi-feature-freeze until 0.4.8? 10:25 nore perhaps... 10:25 celeron55 i guess not 10:25 nore but if we do, everyone will ask when will 0.4.8 be out 10:25 celeron55 it even isn't a semi-feature-freeze because many features are really about to go in 10:25 jin_xi hey, my two cents to trees and deco discussion: i talked to hmmm about deco callbacks and he said he planned to add them. i wanted to do it myself, but idk how... anyways i think the lsystem treegen should really be done in lua for more flexibility. in my experience speed should not be an issue, as its about the same 10:26 nore jin_xi, about deco callbacks, I guess this will be done to remove that duplicated code for default trees 10:26 celeron55 sapier: you should publicize your membership on https://github.com/minetest?tab=members 10:26 nore and you say you have coded the spawn-tree thing in Lua? 10:27 celeron55 sapier: you not being publicly in there already caused confusion 8) 10:28 jin_xi hmm, i did a turtle thing that is not tree specific but does all sort of structures, just look at my posts in the forum... 10:29 nore so perhaps the spawn-tree code should be done in Lua? 10:29 jin_xi i think 'trees' with both schematics and custom lua on deco callback should be able to do everything anybody could ever want to do 10:30 celeron55 BlockMen requested himself to be a core dev; objections? 10:31 nore I don't have any 10:33 PilzAdam celeron55, not that Im against it, but hes not very active in this channel 10:34 celeron55 he has said 906 lines here this year though 10:35 celeron55 it's about the same as ShadowNinja, and 10% of you or me 10:35 nore celeron55, how do you get the number of lines? 10:35 celeron55 i grep my logs 8) 10:35 nore so, how many lines I have written this year? 10:36 * celeron55 has always logs available for grepping facts out 10:36 celeron55 1550 10:36 PilzAdam I liked the form you had a while ago to find the first core devs 10:36 * nore likes the verb "to grep" 10:36 PilzAdam it makes sure that all core devs share the same goals 10:37 nore what was that form? 10:37 BlockMen PilzAdam, core dev can also be thrown out agan and i would like to know what you make think im having that different goals 10:37 BlockMen s/dev/devs 10:38 PilzAdam BlockMen, I dont think you have different goals, I just dont know yours 10:38 celeron55 PilzAdam: related to this, i said: 10:38 celeron55 13:00:20 < celeron55> i'm basing this addition on the hope that if people follow what i wrote here, it's possible to avoid huge conflicts in direction and unmergeable work: http://c55.me/blog/?p=1491 10:38 celeron55 anyone is free to disagree of course 10:40 nore celeron55, there are some suggestions of adding more "official" games... 10:40 nore should that be done? 10:41 celeron55 i left that open in that post... because i don't know 10:41 nore I reckon we need several very different games... 10:41 PilzAdam well, we obviously dont "throw out" core devs who dont agree with our goals 10:41 nore but I don't know if I am the only one to have that opinion 10:43 celeron55 my opinion is that competing with minecraft in it's own game is boring, which is why we should stretch ourselves a bit because our technology allows doing it with reasonable effort 10:45 celeron55 but there are many ways to organize that and it is the actual problem 10:45 BlockMen well, since my goals seem to be unclear: my main goal is make minetest more stable(if necessary) and allow as much individuality as possible (with focus on game modes) 10:45 BlockMen and if you say no, that does not fit, ok. but i hope its more clear now what my focus is on 10:46 celeron55 one question is, where are the people who would make content of publishable quality 10:46 celeron55 we clearly have people who can work on the engine; that's not an issue 10:47 nore celeron55, do you mean modders? 10:47 celeron55 and... with content, even quality isn't a problem; there just should be... something 10:47 celeron55 some people suggest shipping minetest with no games at all 10:47 nore we perhaps need more people to work on minetest_game... 10:47 nore and other games too... 10:47 celeron55 and make it possible to easily get a subgame in it 10:48 BlockMen a game manager would be nice 10:48 nore yes, perhaps if a game is good enough, allow to ship it with minetest could be nice 10:48 nore (and put it in default builds) 10:52 PilzAdam BlockMen, you seem to think in the same direction as I do: games are the future 10:52 PilzAdam the problem with mods is that they all depend on a single game (which is minetest_game currently), and there are obviously problems when we try to make one game for everyone 10:52 celeron55 so a thing that would work out technically just fine currently is choosing multiple games to put into minetest packages; the issue is, who chooses them and by what criteria 10:53 PilzAdam so the Minetest engine should become a generic engine, and allow multiple different games to run 10:55 celeron55 and the other issue is that there currently aren't games that are built to take advantage of this way of doing things 10:55 celeron55 eh, let's start talking about subgames 10:55 BlockMen celeron55, i would prefer a good way to offer games instead bundle them with packages. because i expect many games to come in future and that makes your question more difficult 10:55 celeron55 (this "game" term is confusing even myself) 10:56 celeron55 BlockMen: that's the future for sure; but what about the close future when we don't have the systems for that set up? 10:57 celeron55 ideally 0.4.8 would have something to show off this new way of doing things 10:57 BlockMen for the close future:packages and which could be decided on#-dev or by devs 11:03 celeron55 okay so anyway; BlockMen is approved 11:04 nore I reckon we need something to replace hacky_swap_node code 11:04 nore because now, each time it is done, the clients thinks meta has disappeared 11:04 nore and formspec closes, etc 11:04 BlockMen yay :) 11:05 nore and hacky_swap_node, is, as its name says, hacky 11:06 celeron55 so does someone want to make a proposal of what to put in the minetest 0.4.8 distribution, or do i make one? 11:07 BlockMen i think pilztest would be nice 11:07 celeron55 the proposal can really be left as-is from our part and we can just throw it as a recommendation at the face of packagers 11:07 celeron55 (which some of us are, but anyway) 11:09 celeron55 my suggestion-suggestion is: 1) something that has a large amount of stuff to build with, 2) something that has some kind of challenging survival, 3) something that is as much different from those other two as possible 11:10 celeron55 "just fill in the names" 8D 11:12 nore 3) a space game... :) 11:12 nore 2) perhaps realtest, but it would need to be worked on a lot 11:12 nore 1) technic_game... 11:12 celeron55 this is one option for 3 https://github.com/celeron55/dungeon 11:12 BlockMen 1) technic_game + "moreblock", 2) pilztest, 3)like nore said 11:13 celeron55 but would need work 11:13 thexyz BlockMen: now please register @ freenode 11:15 thexyz if by 3) you meant something original then I think https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=6636 would fit 11:15 celeron55 could work 11:16 celeron55 if they are small games (like <0.5M), it's not like there couldn't be many of them 11:16 PilzAdam I still need a better name for pilztest 11:17 thexyz yeah, OCD is unfinished sadly 11:18 BlockMen thexyz, done 11:19 BlockMen PilzAdam, Voxelion? 11:20 celeron55 should this plan be published on the forum? maybe someone gets motivated to quickly finish some fun oddball project 11:20 celeron55 PilzAdam: my suggestion still stands 11:21 PilzAdam celeron55, I would prefer a "real" name 11:21 celeron55 games these days sometimes have names like that too 11:21 PilzAdam BlockMen, thats actually pretty nice 11:22 celeron55 that name is infinitely undescriptive 11:22 celeron55 the names of these subgames must make it somehow clear what kind of things they are 11:24 BlockMen we need something like "about" for games 11:24 BlockMen were are creator, version and descripts in shown 11:24 BlockMen s/were/where 11:24 celeron55 probably 11:25 celeron55 but still the name can't be that undescriptive 11:25 BlockMen but then you cut the creativity 11:26 celeron55 there shouldn't be any reference to voxels or blocks in subgame names unless they are especially focused on voxels and blocks 11:26 celeron55 minetest is about those things in any case so it's no news to anyone 11:26 celeron55 it's like calling a car "Car" 11:27 PilzAdam pilztest actually is focused on voxels 11:28 celeron55 what if a subgame comes out that's more focused on voxels than pilztest? 11:28 celeron55 then your name falls flat 11:29 sapier ahh didn't realize I have to do something to become visible as member -->doe 11:30 PilzAdam yea, the survival part needs to be clear in the name too 11:33 sapier there already is a game manager focused on modifying different games ... maybe it's not exactly what you meant with "game manager" 11:34 PilzAdam sapier, its not about modifying games, users shouldnt do that 11:34 PilzAdam its about installing games, like the modstore 11:35 sapier if users shouldn't modify games modstore is a little bit useless ;-) maybe we should decide about a consistent way of handling mods/games first (again) 11:38 celeron55 games are constant and they can be amended with mods 11:38 celeron55 it's like it's always been 11:39 sapier constant as of games you download yes but maybe a user wants to configure different "private games" 11:39 PilzAdam but do we really need a GUI for that? 11:40 BlockMen sapier, that does not need a manager, etc 11:40 sapier in best case user could do this within minetest and doesn't have to copy mods around 11:40 sapier of course it doesn't "require" those things but modstore isn't required too but yet a big benefit 11:40 PilzAdam I mean, there could be a 3rd party program for that, but it doesnt need to be in the Minetest main menu 11:41 sapier hmm maybe I should add a way to modify main menu less invasive than replace it completely e.g. add custom main menu tabs (for 0.4.9 of course) 11:41 BlockMen but with modstore you dont edit the mods, so with gamestore you dont change the game ;) 11:42 sapier there isn't a gamestore yet ... but that could be the naming gamestore for downloading and game(manager/editor) for modifying 11:43 sapier and I don't think we'll get gamestore ready for 0.4.8 unless we want to wait until 2014 ;-) 11:45 celeron55 (that's why we're preselecting a couple of games for 0.4.8) 11:47 BlockMen another suggestion for 2) wasteland :P 11:51 sapier https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/968 any comment on this one? 11:54 celeron55 pilztest's name could refer also to the limited inventory 11:56 celeron55 blockbag? 8) 12:03 PilzAdam nore, your broke grass removing ABM 12:03 PilzAdam sunlight_propagate in Lua has a different meaning than in the engine 12:03 PilzAdam in the engine its sunlight_propagates || paramtype = "light" 12:03 PilzAdam currently you remove the dirt_with_grass under default:grass 12:06 sapier could some (2) coredevs plz agree to 968 ? ;-) 12:08 kahrl why do we have to define ZLIB_WINAPI at all? shouldn't this be in zlib.h depending on how it's been compiled? 12:08 kahrl or detected by the build system or something like that? 12:09 sapier yes but there's no autodetect within the headers 12:09 kahrl well that sucks a bit 12:09 sapier you have to define in your project what api to use so if you compile zlib the winapi style use that define if not the other one 12:10 kahrl is it the case that one is compiling with the stdcall version if and only if one uses msvc? 12:10 kahrl s/compiling/linking 12:10 sapier if stdcall means winapi style then yes 12:11 celeron55 nonstdcall 8) 12:11 kahrl std as in the first definition on this page? :P https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STD 12:13 sapier yea there are a lot more ppl having sex just this moment than are programming right now so this priority may be even correct ;-P 12:14 sapier actually reading zlib.h it's exactly oposite you only use WINAPI calling convention if msvc compiler is used 12:15 sapier after my patches. current state is using winapi calling convention once built on windows 12:15 VanessaE ShadowNinja: line length is easy enough to fix (well, to a degree, too much obsession with it will make the formatting look like crap). Checking for unknown nodes is already in there (lines 21, 22 as they now exist in the pull). What "few others"? 12:16 kahrl I thought nothing would prevent you to use e.g. zlibwapi.dll with mingw 12:16 kahrl (which requires ZLIB_WINAPI) 12:17 sapier you can do this of course still it may result in having to add two different zlib dlls as you require to compile all libs to use winapi zlib 12:17 sapier while zlib dll is already basic component of mingw 12:17 sapier yet this one isn't built winapi style 12:19 kahrl we could use the wndproc hack :D 12:19 kahrl described here http://blogs.msdn.com/b/oldnewthing/archive/2004/01/15/58973.aspx 12:19 sapier we could ... but why use a complicated solution if there's a small fix? ;-) 12:20 sapier it's not like you'd have to do anything more if you do a mingw build. you actually need to do less ... not download zlib dll separate ;-) 12:20 kahrl yeah well I guess if the fix works for everyone currently offering windows builds then commit it 12:21 sapier I tried building mingw32 and vs2012 ... I expect it to work with vs2010 too 12:23 celeron55 kahrl: i guess they need to change the dll they're using 12:23 celeron55 otherwise they get a million obscure link errors 12:23 celeron55 or something 12:24 celeron55 or maybe it looks to them link it works and the end result works only on computers without mingw installed? 8-) 12:24 celeron55 like* 12:24 sapier ppl using msvc don't get any difference 12:24 celeron55 with* 12:24 sapier ppl using mingw would have had a problem atm 12:24 kahrl unless they fixed it by downloading a separate dll... now they have to fix it again 12:25 sapier either they don't use gettext/freetype or have multiple dlls in there 12:26 sapier still it's way more consistent to use non winapi calling convention on mingw 12:28 kahrl how is this stuff done in irrlicht? 12:29 sapier good question I'll have a try with non self built irrlicht dlls 12:29 kahrl oh I think they bundle it 12:29 sapier I think so too but I'm not sure 12:30 celeron55 it's statically linked into there for sure 12:30 celeron55 like many other libs 12:30 sapier ok so I don't need to test 12:30 kahrl so at least using a different zlib dll won't break irrlicht in some obscure manner 12:32 sapier as I said actually current way of doing it is broken if someone managed to work around this issue she/he didn't give back that fix by now 12:33 celeron55 the official build instructions put the msvc zlib dll into both builds 12:33 celeron55 so that's what most people have currently 12:33 sapier did anyone actually do this? 12:33 celeron55 probably almost everyone 12:34 celeron55 (who has built a mingw build) 12:34 sapier in forum msvc build is way more common than mingw 12:36 sapier still you can't do a clean mingw build without doing that change 12:36 celeron55 if you're prepared to help people who get problems out of it, it's ok 8) 12:36 sapier of course I always sort out issues I cause ;-) 12:37 sapier I guess I should update the "official build instructions" ... which didn't work for me either ;-P 12:38 kahrl for example PilzAdam's build has zlibwapi.dll and is made with mingw 12:39 sapier PilzAdam ? how did you do that? ;-) 12:39 celeron55 the mingw instructions worked as-is for me but i've never used gettext or freetype with them 12:42 sapier official build instructions don't cover freetype and curl at all 12:42 sapier maybe that's why nobody noticed by now 12:42 VanessaE can someone look at the current state of #959 and tell me perhaps what those other "things" might have been that shadow was referring to, so I can at least work on them? 12:45 nore PilzAdam, about that bug with dirt_with_grass 12:45 kahrl VanessaE: https://github.com/VanessaE/minetest/commit/f8bb9ccfb3c3d2a5e5d4afc0c95b4de1be63ef8c#diff-19b5801567ac89eb6f0459c3c0cf2a47R29 12:46 kahrl I think it's possible that this indexes a nil value 12:46 VanessaE look at line 21. 12:46 VanessaE that catches the unknown node 12:46 sapier PilzAdam do you have any issues with compiling your mingw build against mingw zlib dll instead of separate dll? 12:46 VanessaE oh wait. 12:47 nore should I push the fix? 12:47 kahrl VanessaE: if the node is unknown that if is executed leading to line 29 12:47 VanessaE right, I missed that. 12:48 kahrl 34 probably to be made safer too 12:48 kahrl +has 12:48 VanessaE yah, on it. 12:48 VanessaE yeah* 12:51 VanessaE how's that look? 12:54 kahrl good 12:54 VanessaE excellent 12:55 kahrl now about the "other things" shadow mentioned... you'll have to ask :) 12:55 VanessaE heh, I just realized I call it a "library" yet it's only one function :P 12:55 kaeza one small bit: you could cache minetest.registered_nodes[name] locally for a tiny performance improvement 12:56 kaeza not sure if worth the effort though 13:02 VanessaE like that? :) 13:02 VanessaE (yes, I redefine it half-way through the call, but it's just a temp var so I didn't care :P ) 13:03 VanessaE this could be written a tad better actually. 13:04 VanessaE there, that's better. 13:06 VanessaE hrm. could line 34 possibly fail out with the right combination of nil fields? I can never remember how that works out in practice. 13:06 proller full set of my patches https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/895/files - they do absolutely nothing and useless ;) 13:06 proller ^ about speed 13:07 nore VanessaE, 34? 13:08 nore 34 can not fail 13:08 VanessaE ok good. 13:10 nore about that space game perhaps shipped with Minetest... who would help doing it? 13:10 sapier did we discuss usage of "signef off" git feature by some time? 13:11 sapier I'll provide space mobs 13:11 celeron55 nore: it's not really possible to make a reasonable one at the moment due to a number of reasons 13:11 celeron55 or, it really depends on what can be considered reasonable... 13:11 nore yes, you may be right... 13:11 proller we have no darth vader mob 8( 13:12 sapier we don't? 13:12 VanessaE somehow I don't think LucasArts will accept tht :) 13:12 sapier we call it darktest 13:12 VanessaE (or whatever LucasFilms game division was) 13:14 sapier yet I'd like to merge the zlib mingw fix can I interpret celeron55's and kahrl's comments as agreement? 13:16 PilzAdam nore, how about posting the fix here first? 13:17 PilzAdam sapier, umm..... dunno about that 13:17 sapier PA does your build contain curl as well as freetype? 13:17 PilzAdam I just build wit buildbot.sh and copy the .dll files into the bin/ folder when it says that its missing them 13:17 PilzAdam yea, it does 13:18 sapier hmm interesting so at least building minetest without any dependencys might work the way it is ... with outdated libs of course 13:18 nore PilzAdam, too late... 13:18 sapier so at least I have to check if buildbot needs a fix too 13:18 nore I pushed it (anyway, the only change was to write nodedef.sunlight_propagetes or nodedef.paramtype == "light" 13:24 proller VanessaE, today i will make liquid porcessing limited by time, it helps to all liquids 13:24 VanessaE cool 13:32 celeron55 i just realized the receive priorization patch probably does improve response time in cases when the server is at 100% CPU use 13:33 celeron55 and in those cases the processing would lag in any case 13:34 proller slow abm and env not big issue 13:34 sapier 100% cpu load? I'm not sure if this is a normal state of operation 13:34 proller waiting 10 seconds to open inventory - big 13:34 celeron55 sapier: it shouldn't be, but sadly it happens with crappy liquids and crappy ABMs and whatever 13:35 proller cureently all servers is laggy when 5+ players 13:35 sapier do we have any option to fix this e.g. by limiting those things to lets say 30% of cpu capacity? 13:35 proller you can wait minute+ for loading block mor move forward 13:35 sapier if there was proper map locking those things could run in their own (low prio) thread 13:35 proller not i will try liquids queue processing linited by time 13:36 proller now 13:36 proller with abm it harder 13:36 celeron55 i'd say let's put the priorization in, but it's purpose needs to be explained well in a comment; it's purpose is VERY easy to misunderstand 13:37 proller ok 13:38 celeron55 what the code does is that it prioritizes processing of received packets over timed processing when there is 100% CPU use 13:38 proller also lot of falling items can kill server (make sand fload island and touch) 13:39 VanessaE I can vouch for that one. and it is wont to kill the client to :) 13:39 celeron55 when there is no 100% CPU use, it does nothing 13:39 VanessaE too* 13:39 proller also mapgen can eat 100% cpu 13:39 sapier sounds like a reasonable workaround until proper rework is done 13:55 PilzAdam we need to decide if we merge #911 or #882 13:55 PilzAdam one this needs to be merged before 0.4.8 13:56 PilzAdam #911 just fixes the current code, while #882 dumps the current code and (tries) to apply that "leveld" stuff to the normal liquids 13:57 PilzAdam while the additions of #882 to finite_liquids might be nice, it doesnt really work well with the normal liquids 13:58 sapier in current state "try to get 0.4.8 out" I'd prefere fixing instead of rewrite 13:58 sapier does 911 work reasonably well? 13:58 PilzAdam yea 13:59 proller my pull 3 months old 13:59 sapier would there be a problem if 911 is in 0.4.8 and 882 is added later? 13:59 proller maybe some compatibility glitches 13:59 PilzAdam we would need to alias "range" to "level" then, but thats not a big problem 13:59 proller maybe not 14:00 proller nobody will use range 8) 14:00 sapier was that name in 0.4.7 before? 14:00 PilzAdam range wasnt used before, no 14:01 celeron55 everything can be changed that wasn't in 0.4.7 14:01 sapier ok what about using level as name with old code if it's clear we add 882 later? 14:01 celeron55 (as long as loading worlds work) 14:01 proller making strange feature for one version is... strange 14:01 sapier -clear + sure 14:01 proller 882 extends "leveled" stuff added after 0.4.7 14:01 PilzAdam sapier, the problem with "level" is that it doesnt make sense with the normal liquids 14:02 PilzAdam from the views of modders 14:02 sapier we could explain it in docs for this version 14:02 PilzAdam also I dont like dumping range anyway 14:02 VanessaE crap, I think shadow's change to the 4k+ nodes did not work right 14:02 sapier ok if we want both there's no compatibility issue 14:03 nore VanessaE, why? 14:03 PilzAdam #882 should be rewritten to a) not dump the range feature and b) not break maps like it currently does 14:03 VanessaE nore, lemme double-check firt. 14:03 VanessaE first* 14:04 proller 882 is incompatible with range 14:04 proller it not big break 14:05 VanessaE nore: maybe it isn't that. something is wrong. 14:05 sapier big or not big is no difference ;-) broken is broken 14:05 proller but if not move flowing flag - make more than 8 level for old liquid impossible 14:05 proller sapier, small liquid flow is not "broken" 14:06 PilzAdam also we already decided to add "range" when we merged that pull request, #911 just fixes some stuff 14:06 sapier I don't have a good fealing adding this to 0.4.8 14:06 VanessaE nore: lemme check. helps if I actually build *and install* it... 14:06 proller PilzAdam, who "we"? 14:06 sapier it still seems to be a good improvement for 0.4.9 14:06 PilzAdam proller, the core team 14:06 proller and then for 0.5, and then.... 14:07 proller PilzAdam, me - not. 14:07 sapier no proller I'd suggest merging changes stage for 0.4.9 once 0.4.8 is released to get them tested as soon as possible 14:07 celeron55 0.5 doesn't come after 0.4.9 14:07 celeron55 after 0.4.9 comes 0.4.10 14:08 VanessaE ok it wasn't shadow's change, but something is now preventing me from starting my servers -- C++ Exception 14:08 sapier we're sorting out issues with things merged months ago and haven't even fixed all of them yet 14:08 proller sapier, and test new incompatibility.. 14:08 PilzAdam VanessaE, gdb 14:09 sapier yes but I'm almost sure if we add this now we're add additional delay 14:11 VanessaE http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6347162/ 14:12 sapier No symbol table info available. :-( 14:12 VanessaE yeah, I stopped making debug builds, I got tired of the slowdown. 14:12 PilzAdam that looks like and assert() failed 14:12 PilzAdam anything in the normal logs? 14:13 VanessaE http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6347174/ 14:13 VanessaE (and no, it isn't actually technic doing it) 14:14 PilzAdam throw technic out and try again 14:14 VanessaE no. 14:14 sapier why don't we se a debug stack? 14:15 VanessaE PilzAdam: if I remove technic, it'll just be some other mod that triggers it. When I get "C++ Exception", it is universally a > 4096 nodes issue. 14:15 VanessaE I'm double-checking against unmodified master just to be sure. 14:17 VanessaE nope, no good even with vanilla. 14:18 PilzAdam "C++ exception" also happens alot if you deal with e.g. meta 14:18 sapier you could try a debug build and run within gdb 14:18 VanessaE that's stupid. 14:18 PilzAdam you cant say htat its because of a node limit 14:19 VanessaE I'll play with it a bit, but "C++ Exception" when it should be throwing a traceable error is just stupid. 14:19 sapier true 14:21 PilzAdam sapier, so you would agree to merge #911 and deal with #882 after 0.4.8? 14:21 sapier yes that'd be my prefered way to handle it 14:21 VanessaE PilzAdam: good call on the metadata issue. it's a technic bug all right. 14:22 sapier do we have a tag "moved to next version" or similar? 14:22 sapier wait maybe milestones are better? 14:22 PilzAdam we have a 0.48 milestone 14:22 PilzAdam +. 14:22 celeron55 VanessaE: it's better to handle exceptions like that in release builds because they're practically never run in a debugger; it at least sometimes gives some information 14:22 celeron55 a debug build will pass the exception through 14:23 celeron55 build a debug build with -O2 if you want 14:23 sapier any objections to creating 0.4.9 milestone? 14:23 VanessaE celeron55: but how is a modder supposed to trace such bugs? 14:23 PilzAdam sapier, what will go in there? 14:24 sapier pull requests we decided to merge next version 14:24 celeron55 VanessaE: such bug is not supposed to happen and if we knew what it is, we could work towards making them more understandable 14:24 nore sapier, I don't have objections for that 14:25 celeron55 hmm 14:25 PilzAdam sapier, well, we havent exactly decided to merge #882 as it is 14:25 celeron55 it seems like it's a C++ exception that has occurred when lua has called something though 14:25 VanessaE I'm checking on it, celeron55 14:26 celeron55 that's a tough path to pass any information about them i guess, lua being made in C 14:26 sapier doesn't imply they are finished yet only that their basic features are to be added 14:26 PilzAdam ok, that sounds good 14:26 sapier ok I' creating the milestone now 14:28 VanessaE celeron55: this technic commit throws the exception: https://github.com/minetest-technic/technic/commit/5ed47abee6354509ca46fefe5740872b028f083e 14:28 PilzAdam I dont like that proller has added his pull requests to the 0.4.8 milestone 14:28 VanessaE so the craft prediction function is bugged. 14:28 PilzAdam they are marked as "low-priority-enhancement"§ 14:28 celeron55 it seems like lua would handle such an exception somewhat more reasonably 14:29 celeron55 luajit catches C++ exceptions and hides their what() like that 14:29 proller PilzAdam, you set this mark? 14:29 PilzAdam no 14:29 sapier ok as 0.4.9 exists now we can flagg 882 0.4.9 agreed? 14:30 nore VanessaE, it works fine with my computer, though 14:30 PilzAdam I guess 891 goes into 0.4.9, too 14:31 sapier 891? 14:31 PilzAdam 892* 14:31 celeron55 VanessaE: can you build a non-luajit version? it seems like the only way to know what the exceptions is about 14:32 sapier ok I'm gonna tag 882 0.4.9 if noone complains now 14:33 celeron55 it looks like we need to add exception handler blocks to all lua->c++ calls 14:34 sapier great :-/ 14:34 celeron55 or deal with undecipherable errors 14:34 sapier I'm gonna file a issue 14:34 proller and dont crash server on lua error 14:36 celeron55 i'm trying now what regular lua does for C++ exceptions 14:36 sapier a lua error is a showstopper you can't tell if it's safe to continue 14:37 celeron55 i assume luajit always shows just "C++ exception" and quits 14:37 nore celeron55, no it doesn't 14:38 nore when the error is inside Lua, it shows a normal error message, with where it comes from 14:38 sapier PilzAdam 892 seems to be way to heavy for a prerelease commit too yes 14:38 celeron55 nore: that's not a C++ exception 14:39 celeron55 i guess someone would do this test faster than my laptop compiles minetest 14:39 celeron55 building since many minutes, and building until many minutes more 14:40 celeron55 we should maybe try out precompiled headers 14:40 sapier any quick way to cause a c++ exception? 14:40 PilzAdam sapier, minetest.get_meta(something_that_is_not_a_pos) IIRC 14:40 celeron55 http://pastebin.com/gLwy51E2 14:40 celeron55 well, apparently i wouldn't have had to even rebuild this then 14:41 celeron55 i guess i'll just do that thing instead, this is still building... 14:42 sapier ok I need to rebuilt too but I guess it's faster for me 14:42 celeron55 hey what the actual fuck 14:42 celeron55 why does this rebuild like all of minetest if i just modify l_craft.cpp? 14:42 celeron55 >.cpp 14:42 celeron55 it shouldn't definitely work like that 14:43 sapier of course not that's one of the reasons why I split scriptapi.cpp 14:43 nore celeron55, a lot of files depend on it 14:43 sapier why do files depend on a cpp? 14:43 celeron55 it's a .cpp file, obviously nothing depends on it except the link stage 14:43 celeron55 but it seems like everything depends on it 14:44 sapier did you modify one of the build scripts? 14:44 celeron55 no 14:44 celeron55 this is vanilla minetest 14:44 VanessaE C++ exception cause found: too many braces in the shapeless register craft recipe 14:44 sapier I'll ty once my build has finished 14:44 VanessaE shouldn't that have thrown a more readable error? 14:45 PilzAdam hmm.. that get_meta() thing doesnt seem to "work" anymore... 14:45 sapier so someone fixed the bug 14:45 sapier VanessaE it should 14:45 celeron55 VanessaE: give the errorneus code 14:45 sapier can you pinpoint the c++ file where the exception is thrown? 14:45 celeron55 VanessaE: we want to test it 14:46 nore minetest.register_craft({type="shapeless", recipe={{"a","b"}}}) crashes 14:46 VanessaE celeron55: https://github.com/minetest-technic/technic/commit/5ed47abee6354509ca46fefe5740872b028f083e 14:46 nore minetest.register_craft({type="shapeless", recipe={"a","b"}}) that does not 14:46 VanessaE nore, I'll push a fix to technic. 14:46 celeron55 16:46:22: ERROR[main]: ServerError: LuaError: Crafting definition (shapeless) is missing an output 14:46 nore VanessaE, already done 14:46 celeron55 non-luajit Lua gives this 14:46 celeron55 so it's luajit's problem really 14:46 nore celeron55, forgot output 14:47 nore you should add output to that too 14:47 PilzAdam sapier, I merge #911 then, or do you have any objections? 14:47 sapier no merge it 14:47 celeron55 nore: what? 14:47 nore so it is type = "shapeless", output = "c", recipe = {{"a", "b"}} that crashed 14:47 nore I forgot output when I wrote this 14:48 sapier still this should cause a more speaking error 14:48 nore the problem is with the fact that recipe is a list inside a list, instead of a list 14:48 celeron55 anyway, it gives a reasonable error message either way 14:48 nore even with the output added? 14:48 celeron55 what do i put in output? 14:48 nore anything 14:48 nore call it "c" 14:49 sapier http://pastebin.com/BrJ66uib result without luajit 14:49 celeron55 http://pastebin.com/C2ehkh2S 14:49 sapier are you sure this is same thing causing vanesaE's error? 14:50 celeron55 with lua, with output 14:50 sapier ok celeron gets same error 14:50 nore yes, I am sure it is that 14:50 celeron55 i guess luajit guys say they can't pass a C++ exception through because it would screw up the stack 14:50 nore if you remove the additional braces, it should work 14:51 VanessaE ERROR: An unhandled exception occurred: ServerError: LuaError: error: /usr/share/minetest/builtin/vector.lua:5: Invalid vector <--- unrelated problem, and quite frequent on my servers. No traceback is printed. 14:52 sapier didn't I add improved traceback some time ago? are there still situations where this doesn't work? 14:52 VanessaE apparently so. 14:52 VanessaE or your code was not pushed. 14:53 sapier assert(type(v) == "table" and v.x and v.y and v.z, "Invalid vector") thanks whoever wrote that assertion 14:54 sapier if you look for that bug you could replace it by a if (assert) do backtrace assert 14:55 sapier if (assert reason) of course 14:55 VanessaE how am I supposed to find it without a valid traceback? 14:55 sapier obviously there are some situations where no traceback is created but you can create it manually 14:56 sapier it's not a solution of course only a workaround until fix is done 14:57 PilzAdam nore, another thing: do you catch that minetest.get_node_light() can return nil? 14:59 VanessaE sapier: right. 15:00 VanessaE sapier: but as I simply don't know how to fix this, I'm stuck. 15:00 nore PilzAdam, can it? 15:00 BlockMen can someone agree on #928? 15:00 PilzAdam nore, similiar code just crashed in pilztest for me, fix: https://github.com/PilzAdam/pilztest/commit/4c188a8ec36981b26f0a8c5723b6196102000a35 15:01 nore ok, I will push a fix 15:01 sapier http://pastebin.com/69wYhFtr VanessaE replace the assert in vector by this variant (I use it in mobf) 15:02 nore PilzAdam, pushed 15:03 PilzAdam nore, stop pushing things if nobody has looked at them 15:03 nore that was a 4-chars fix... 15:03 PilzAdam that line is too long now 15:03 nore ok, so I should split it? 15:03 PilzAdam yes 15:04 PilzAdam you can overwrite the history if the commit you are overwrting isnt older than 10 minutes 15:04 VanessaE sapier: done, servers going up. 15:05 nore PilzAdam, like that? 15:06 PilzAdam no 15:06 nore why? 15:07 PilzAdam https://gist.github.com/PilzAdam/7279851 15:07 PilzAdam because of our unwritten Lua code styleguideline 15:08 nore ok 15:08 nore like now? 15:09 nore (for the second one, mainly) 15:09 PilzAdam oh god, its still wrong 15:09 nore why? 15:10 nore the second being more indented? 15:10 PilzAdam can you just stop pushing everything to upstream directly? 15:10 sapier :-) may I have a look too? I'm curious ;-) 15:10 nore yes, I should do that... 15:10 PilzAdam the 2 line in the if statement should have the same intendation 15:10 PilzAdam s/t/d/ s/d/t/ 15:11 nore yes, but it is inside a parenthesis started in the previous line 15:11 PilzAdam that doesnt matter 15:12 nore ok 15:12 nore so I remove that indent, and I push? 15:12 PilzAdam yea 15:12 nore (and I am more careful next time...) 15:12 PilzAdam and fix minetest_game too 15:13 nore yes, done 15:13 PilzAdam BlockMen, havent you removed the "Leftclick: take all ..." stuff in that pull request for a while? 15:14 BlockMen yeah, but there was no agreement that it gets removed so i left it in when i rebased it 15:14 VanessaE sapier: if your code works, but is not a "proper" fix, what would be? 15:14 PilzAdam nore, what a wonderful second day as core dev: commiting something that needs 2 "fix-commits" and pushing wrong things 3 or 4 times so you need a history rewrite 15:15 thexyz what a usual day, PA being picky 15:15 PilzAdam :-p 15:15 sapier a proper fix would be find out why the traceback isn't shown on any lua error I'm not exactly sure if this really can be done as there are multiple ways a error comes to notice 15:16 thexyz I'm actually interested in what "minetest.get_node_light(above) >= 13 or 0" means 15:17 PilzAdam its (get_node_light() or 0) means "take get_node_light(), or 0 if get_node_light() is nil) 15:17 PilzAdam s/)/" 15:17 sapier so if something isn't loaded yet we asume it's light is 0? 15:17 PilzAdam the "or 0" part makes sure that you dont compare nil with 13 15:18 thexyz okay, I guess it's just in the wrong place 15:18 PilzAdam sapier, it returns nil for solid nodes 15:18 sapier doesn't it return nil for unloaded too? 15:18 PilzAdam maybe 15:19 PilzAdam nore, umm... thexyz is right, you pushed the wrong code to minetest 15:19 sapier I'm not sure but at least in mobf I assume it :-) 15:19 PilzAdam its correct in minetest_game, though 15:19 sapier come on guys don't make him even more nervous he already is ;-) 15:20 PilzAdam :-p 15:20 PilzAdam sapier, we all need to go through this 15:20 thexyz yeah 15:21 PilzAdam BlockMen, what about my suggestion to remove it, and add it to the default formspec? 15:21 sapier of course I still have to proove I can handle it better I haven't merged anything yet 15:21 PilzAdam Ill fix it minetest now (since nore disappeard) 15:21 thexyz I don't think there's much point in raging because he mistyped "or 0" 15:21 nore PilzAdam, what was the problem? 15:22 PilzAdam fixed, people can pull now 15:23 PilzAdam nore, you wrote "(minetest.get_node_light(above) >= 13 or 0)" instead of "(minetest.get_node_light(above) or 0) >= 13" 15:23 nore ah, yes, I just saw that 15:23 BlockMen PilzAdam, so adding a label to default formspec and kick it from engine, right? 15:23 nore sorry, my bad 15:23 PilzAdam BlockMen, yea 15:24 BlockMen ok, im fine with that 15:24 nore you should add "Middle click: move 10 items" too 15:24 nore since that one is the one I would never have discovered alone 15:24 nore (and for crafting too...) 15:25 PilzAdam nore, that wouldnt fit into the default sized inventory with the default window size 15:25 proller sapier, 892 fixes broken current weather 15:25 VanessaE movew/craft 10 items 15:25 VanessaE -w 15:26 nore PilzAdam, perhaps something like: Left/middle/right click: move all/10/1 items 15:26 nore that would fit 15:26 PilzAdam could work 15:26 sapier proller looks more like a rewrite than a fix ;-) 15:27 nore and perhaps even move/craft instead of move 15:27 proller its continue developing 15:27 proller weather was broken after this pull 15:27 VanessaE nore, that would be too many slashes. 15:27 VanessaE (i.e. it would seem too repetitive) 15:27 proller i cant support 90000 pulls with one thing 15:27 nore ok, write move|craft then... 15:28 VanessaE "move or craft" 15:28 nore ok for move or craft 15:28 sapier I'm not sure about it maybe delay decision until critical things are merged 15:28 VanessaE "Left/middle/right-click: move or craft all/10/1 item(s)" 15:28 proller and i want to join 882 + 892 into one 15:29 sapier then it's 0.4.9 15:29 nore the only problem is that left crafts only 1... 15:29 PilzAdam VanessaE, so leftclick is "craft all items"? 15:29 VanessaE PilzAdam: ask nore :) 15:29 * BlockMen still thinks its useless at all 15:29 sapier I don't se any reason why weather and liquids need to be a single commit 15:30 VanessaE I was just tweaking his line a bit, didn't pay attention to whether it was actually correct :D 15:30 nore so perhaps move all/10/1 or craft 1/10/1 items 15:30 PilzAdam it would be ok to just leave middleclick out (as it is currently), since peopel can always find the complete set of controls in the wiki 15:31 proller sapier, because they have intersection and i cant make something new 3 months 15:31 VanessaE "Left-click: move all/craft 1. Middle: move/craft 10. Right: Move/craft 1." 15:31 VanessaE PilzAdam: people don't read wikis 15:31 PilzAdam I did 15:31 BlockMen who came up with craft? it says move, that enough 15:31 sapier proller still having multiple things that all need discussion in a single pull will reduce it's chance to be merged drasticaly 15:31 VanessaE you're a geek. geeks aren't people ;) 15:31 nore the middle click should definitely be there... 15:31 nore else, you don't have the idea 15:32 PilzAdam VanessaE, ok, I decide that Minetest is for geeks then 15:32 proller sapier, its not my problem, it already works on my server 15:32 VanessaE BlockMen: actually I guess that was my suggestion - a lot of people don't know that you can craft 10x with a middle-click 15:32 VanessaE PilzAdam: :P 15:33 sapier proller so you really wanna fork? 15:33 proller i make all what i can for merging, but.. nothing.. 15:33 BlockMen VanessaE, you should ppl try out a bit, not write everything down ;) 15:33 sapier proller that's quite normal my security fixes have never been merged 15:33 proller just one huge pull 15:33 sapier async api is 3 version now 15:33 PilzAdam proller, the problem that I see with your features is that it doesnt really fit the goals of the other devs 15:33 sapier and entity linking I provided 2 years ago was rewritten by someone a year ago ;-) 15:34 VanessaE BlockMen: well if you think it's fine, I won't stand in your way :) 15:34 PilzAdam we mainly want to create a generic game engine, while you continue hardcoding stuff in the engine and you dont care much about the API 15:34 nore BlockMen, at least write something about middle-click 15:34 proller PilzAdam, making space shooter? 15:34 sapier and a "ALL OR NOTHING" pull request isn't very polite too 15:35 proller PilzAdam, i hardcode only slowest parts 15:35 proller and change already existed things in core 15:35 PilzAdam yea, thats not good 15:35 proller and all my things disableable 15:36 proller and disabled by default 15:36 sapier that's why we're even talking about merging it proller ;-) 15:36 PilzAdam that doesnt make them good, and as we see with finite_liquids you make it conflict with the normal liquids 15:36 proller wat? 15:36 proller conflict make you with "range" 15:37 proller other was two way compatible 15:38 sapier couldn't we fix that issue by using an alias? so this'd be a minor issue? 15:39 PilzAdam I suggested a while ago that "finite" would be a flag in nodedef 15:39 proller its one place in code 15:39 BlockMen nore, but why? there are mouses without middle button, e.g touchpads of notebooks 15:39 BlockMen so writing it always can be confusing too 15:39 proller client place, he dont know about finite or not 15:40 proller PilzAdam, no flag! 15:40 nore BlockMen, left+right click = middle click 15:40 BlockMen PilzAdam, removed from engine. fine to merge now? 15:41 nore and since almost no games use middle button, if not written, no-one thinks to it 15:41 proller flag = 2 queues and lot of shit in code, and nobody will use it 15:42 BlockMen nore, oh right 15:42 PilzAdam BlockMen, have you added it to the default formspec? 15:42 BlockMen not yet because of the discussion and because its _game, so not the same commit 15:43 PilzAdam the default formspec is in the engine 15:43 BlockMen wut? where? 15:43 PilzAdam player.cpp:67 15:44 PilzAdam in minetest_game we need to add it to creative, chest, furnace and bones 15:45 BlockMen ah, ok. would ' "LMB: Move all items, MMB: Move 10 items, RMB: Move single item" ' be fine? 15:47 PilzAdam I guess so 15:48 sapier proller how does this match to the recent abm changes? 15:48 proller neet to rewrite about dirt 15:48 proller need 15:48 proller but change small 15:49 proller and add dirt_with_snow куьщмук 15:49 proller remover 15:49 sapier what about this the weather things seem to be usefull for 0.4.8 as weather was broken after 0.4.7 but the liquid things have to wait till 0.4.9 PilzAdam what do you think about this? 15:49 VanessaE куьщмук ? 15:49 VanessaE "English, dude. English." 15:50 thexyz VanessaE: he've already corrected himself 15:50 thexyz "remover" 15:50 VanessaE sapier: weather depends on finite liquids wrking *just* right. 15:50 thexyz s/'ve/'s/ 15:50 VanessaE thexyz: oops, yep. ninja'd 15:50 sapier depends? why? 15:51 proller weather was added after 0.4.7 15:51 VanessaE sapier: because with weather comes the ability for it to rain, and the rain must be able to collect on the ground. with infinite liquids, this can lead to flooding when it shouldn't. 15:51 VanessaE that's part of why proller seems so obsessed with finite liquids :) 15:51 proller VanessaE, but finite liquids now works in master 15:52 proller my pull about make them better 15:52 VanessaE proller: right. 15:52 sapier ok so actually weather fixes could be merged without causing flooding ... true? 15:53 VanessaE as long as the mod that actually makes it rain is not preloaded, probably. 15:53 proller sapier, yes 15:54 sapier is vanessae right too? 15:54 PilzAdam sapier, dunno if thats good, but we definitely need hmmmm to review proller's pull request, since he is the one who "broke" it according to proller 15:55 proller no problem with rain+current finite liquids 15:55 sapier of course that's some code to check 15:56 sapier so proller expect (minor) changes 15:56 PilzAdam it would also be possible mark weather as "indev" and recommend to no use it 15:56 sapier thats a minor change in menu 15:57 sapier first change to do proller ;-) 15:58 PilzAdam BlockMen, have you tested it well enough? 15:59 BlockMen i tested any case i could think of so i would say yes 16:02 BlockMen my suggestion for the formspec help text is too long 16:02 BlockMen it does not fit 16:04 sapier hmm that most likely means it's way to long in other translations 16:04 PilzAdam sapier, we cant translate it anymore if its done in Lua 16:05 sapier didn't we add translation support to lua? 16:05 PilzAdam for the mainmenu only 16:05 * BlockMen still want to kick at all 16:05 BlockMen *that string 16:05 sapier I assume adding it to scriptapi wouldn't be a big deal ;-) 16:06 PilzAdam sapier, the Lua code runs on the server 16:06 sapier oh ... ok so we'd have to make client tell it's localization to server ... guess thats a 0.4.9 thing 16:09 BlockMen and another problem..the label breaks the text much earlier, so even the old string does not fit anymore 16:15 BlockMen how about that: we remove the string and consider to re-add if ppl complain about? 16:16 sapier I'd be fine with it 16:16 PilzAdam how are newbies supposed to complain about it when they dont know that it existed? 16:16 nore ok with it too 16:16 sapier come one PA we don't have a hud telling punch right place left 16:17 PilzAdam sapier, we have, press Esc 16:17 sapier so what about a "?" button topright showing detailed help? 16:20 BlockMen can buttons use tooltips? 16:20 BlockMen or labels? 16:24 BlockMen and PilzAdam, i think that ppl can find out how to use inventory. or do you think they are not as skilled as mc players? 16:26 VanessaE BlockMen: buttons CAN use tooltips, yes 16:26 VanessaE Unified Inventory does this 16:28 BlockMen VanessaE, thx. just looked up, item_image_buttons can. maybe that would be an easy way to show info 16:29 VanessaE a tooltip over a "[?]" button? sure 16:29 VanessaE I could see that. 16:29 BlockMen damn, no. it needs an registered item (image) 16:30 BlockMen that means changing button element then 16:30 BlockMen yay 16:30 VanessaE so include an image of a question mark :P 16:34 PilzAdam of course 3 core devs who want to remove the string can just overvote me 16:34 BlockMen well, i have to leave now so we talk about that next time 16:34 BlockMen bye everyone 16:37 thexyz celeron55: any updates from china? 16:37 celeron55 no; i would tell if there were 16:38 thexyz right; did they specify any time frame? 16:38 celeron55 no 16:54 thexyz what's the status of httpfetch? 16:54 sapier difficult as it may not be required for mainmenu if the async things are added 16:55 thexyz that's not the only thing I need it for; it's got nice media download support 16:55 sapier yes that's why I said difficult 16:56 sapier I assume it doesn't break non curl media download 16:56 thexyz https://github.com/kahrl/minetest/commit/b7125e56b28751e30d2d2bc5fa7c6b4dc2d674a7 16:57 sapier it's a good improvement yet I'm not sure if it's tested enough for 0.4.8 16:58 thexyz oh, so we're releasing Very Soon™ now? 16:59 thexyz then it should be merged after that 16:59 VanessaE http_fetch will probably also fix a bug in the media fetching where some files are sent too late 16:59 sapier that's base for my suggestions ... we haven't released for quite a while imho it's time to do 17:00 sapier yes it may fix this bug but it may add additional concurrency bugs too 17:00 celeron55 the blocking windows localication thing was fixed (but not yet merged?) so it's okay to try to get 0.4.8 out now 17:01 celeron55 (as long as the pending problems are taken care of) 17:01 sapier no it wasn't merged by now as the fix for msvc is quite ugly ... without a clear "yes we add it" by 2 core devs I wont add things like that ;-) 17:01 celeron55 well what options do we have? 17:01 celeron55 keep stuff broken or add it? not a hard choice... 17:02 sapier If I knew a better solution I wouln't have come up wit that one ... but maybe others have better ideas 17:02 thexyz I think celeron55 suggested some improvement to your solution 17:02 sapier I don't remember any additional suggestions can you tell me where to find them? 17:04 thexyz okay, let me check logs 17:04 sapier hmm maybe you're talking about that "full localization" list? 17:06 thexyz http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest-dev/2013-10-28#i_3398880 17:08 proller https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/895/files - now liquid is fast 17:09 sapier hmm the only way to use this would be creating a lookup table on startup I don't want to do api calls each time a string is translated 17:10 sapier I have to go now but I'm gonna have a try if this works later 17:10 thexyz that'd be great 17:11 sapier maybe it's as easy as doing a name lookup ... not quite sure if I understood doc right ... but could be 17:11 sapier bye 17:12 VanessaE I don't advocate 0.4.8 going out just yet. Not 'til the http_fetch and lib_6d both go in. 17:14 proller VanessaE, all liquids fast ^^ 17:14 PilzAdam VanessaE, lib_6d uses sneak for placement, that is not good since its used to place nodes at other nodes that would usually have a different effect on rightclick 17:15 VanessaE PilzAdam: well ShadowNinja advocated I do that check in the code. 17:15 VanessaE for consistency, since we have no custom modifier keys 17:15 VanessaE the original code took an 'invertall' parameter 17:16 VanessaE (which, if omitted, would be treated as false) 17:16 VanessaE er invertwall* 17:17 PilzAdam wait, so its not possible to place nodes that use minetest.rotate_and_place() when pointing at a chest? 17:17 VanessaE of course it is. 17:17 VanessaE it's just that the invert flag would be triggered, causing the node to appear in 'floor' orientation. 17:17 PilzAdam if you simply rightclick then it opens the chest instead of placing the node 17:18 VanessaE there are only three ways to do this: either I accept an incoming flag from the calling routine, or I check for a key like sneak, or we get proper modifier keys that aren't already bound to some feature. 17:19 VanessaE the third option of course is the best, but requires more changes to the engine, and probably to the client for all I know 17:21 PilzAdam ah, so you dont want nodes to override on_place() with that function? 17:22 VanessaE the way the function is used now (well the version of it that is in current use), it checks explicitly for 'sneak' before calling the function, and passes that to the function. 17:22 VanessaE so basically it does the first option - 17:23 VanessaE it's normally used in an on_place callback actually. 17:23 PilzAdam what Im talking about is that you dont do the check for sneak before calling on_rightclick() 17:23 PilzAdam so if you just do on_place = minetest.rotate_and_place; then its not possible to place nodes while looking at a chest 17:24 VanessaE oh, nonono 17:24 VanessaE that's not how I normally use it 17:24 ShadowNinja VanessaE: I meant things like t["valid_lua_identifier"] instead of t.valid_lua_identifier which I intended to fix be amending if the pull was acepted. 17:24 ShadowNinja by* 17:24 PilzAdam VanessaE, thats not how _you_ use it 17:24 VanessaE ShadowNinja: ah, well that's easily fixed. 17:25 PilzAdam also, why doesnt it apply the normal facedir if you place it at the floor or ceiling? 17:25 VanessaE hadn't thought about that. 17:26 VanessaE this was designed for nodes that explicitly use 6d though. 17:26 PilzAdam this seems to be too ungeneric to be in the API 17:26 VanessaE e.g. slabs, lighting panels, etc. 17:27 PilzAdam slabs cant use this because they need the full block transformation 17:27 VanessaE ShadowNinja: fixed. I guess. 17:27 VanessaE else screw it. the code is there and I did my best on ioy. 17:27 VanessaE it* 17:28 VanessaE it works fine in moreblocks, and I use a variant of it (where I don't check for 'sneak') in homedecor's lights. 17:28 VanessaE works perfectly in both. 17:28 VanessaE or at least, it works exactly as intended. 17:28 ShadowNinja VanessaE: BTW sapier's assert_backtrace function is wrong, it should be "if not x" not "if x == false" so that nil fails properly. 17:29 VanessaE (in moreblocks, sneak is 'force wall' rather than 'invert wall') 17:29 PilzAdam see? even moreblocks cant use the function that you want to add 17:30 proller maybe old idea: little move object when punching, (for push inactive players to holes) 17:30 VanessaE proller: offtopic. 17:30 proller singletopic again? 17:31 VanessaE PilzAdam: it can, if I pass invertwall as a separate flag. 17:31 VanessaE I coded it differently in moreblocks because that's what Calinou wanted. 17:31 ShadowNinja proller: Yes, but that isn't high priority now, we have to get 0.4.8 out. 17:31 VanessaE ShadowNinja: check #959. is that more like you were thinking? 17:32 VanessaE PilzAdam: I originally wanted the moreblocks version to do invert-wall also. calinou didn't like that, so I didn't do it. 17:32 VanessaE so blame him :P 17:32 kahrl does anyone mind if I set #962 to milestone 0.4.8? 17:33 PilzAdam kahrl, I wouldnt mind merging if it works 17:33 proller 892 weather updated 17:33 thexyz kahrl: why can't we just throw it in 17:33 kahrl I can't test it since apparently it's a windows issue 17:34 ShadowNinja kahrl: Or just merge it. :-) 17:34 kahrl if somebody tested it it can be merged 17:34 PilzAdam I guess sapier tested it? 17:34 ShadowNinja sapier has, or at least so I assume. 17:34 kahrl I think so but I don't exactly remember 17:34 PilzAdam we wait for him then 17:34 thexyz yeah it doesn't make things worse 17:34 PilzAdam add it to the milestone if you fear that we will forget it otherwise 17:34 ShadowNinja Well he should know better than to commit un-tested code... 17:35 VanessaE PilzAdam: so what about it? what's gonna be here? do I check inside the routine or outside (for sneak)? So I invert-wall, force-wall, what? 17:35 ShadowNinja How about #965? I can't test it though... 17:36 VanessaE Do* 17:36 PilzAdam VanessaE, I just wanted to point out that there are different expectations how the function should work; that means its too ungeneric to be in the API 17:36 proller 965 looks ok, i can test on freebsd 17:37 VanessaE PilzAdam: well if there are different expectations, it's because there is no consistency in these sorts of things. 17:37 ShadowNinja Ok, push it if it works. 17:37 VanessaE and it is NOT too 'ungeneric' 17:38 proller ShadowNinja, push! 17:38 nore and how about #856? 17:38 PilzAdam dunno if "ungeneric" is a good word 17:38 VanessaE you probably mean 'specialized' 17:38 ShadowNinja proller: Hmmm? Is that a confirmation that it works on FreeBSD? 17:38 VanessaE and if you want it to be consistent, then suggest a way to make it so! 17:38 VanessaE (and yes I'm getting upset) 17:39 proller ShadowNinja, to correct test opendsd needed 17:39 proller ShadowNinja, but it now only one-user-feature 8) 17:39 proller so, push! 17:40 PilzAdam VanessaE, yea, the problem is that we cant force modders to our "consistency" 17:40 proller or i can 17:41 VanessaE PilzAdam: well all I know is this routine is needed by most any mod that places a facedir object. 17:41 VanessaE (except maybe default e.g. chests and furnces) 17:42 PilzAdam not exactly this routine, but a similiar one 17:45 VanessaE there, how about that> 17:46 VanessaE optionally pass a table as the last param, "invert_wall = true" or "force_wall = true" 17:48 nore what about merging #856? 17:48 VanessaE need to add a flag for forcing on-floor facedir to 0, versus normal facedir, maybe 17:49 nore is there anyone else agreeing with #856 (protection)? 17:50 VanessaE PilzAdam: there, how's that look? 17:51 VanessaE I suppose I need to do the same facedir thing with the ceiling mode. 17:54 nore so, about #856? any thoughts? 17:55 nore VanessaE, you need to update lua_api.txt 17:55 VanessaE oh, yeah I'll get that 17:55 VanessaE need to do something else first. 17:56 ShadowNinja I can agree with #856, but I would like more opinions. 17:56 nore I agree 17:56 nore but we need another dev probably... 17:56 celeron55 #965 seems good to me 17:57 nore and #856? 17:58 celeron55 if people really want it as-is, i guess i can't block it 17:58 nore why, what is missing? 17:59 celeron55 hmm, actually, the documentation has been changed and now it roughly is how it should be 17:59 celeron55 i'm not objecting 18:03 rubenwardy What do you guys think about #977? 18:03 proller celeron55, #895 - with lot useless stuff! 18:04 ShadowNinja Alright, I will push #856 then. 18:05 ShadowNinja rubenwardy: Already discussed, it will be going in after 0.4.8. 18:05 nore ShadowNinja, you need to write something about it in News... (for modders, they need to know that since there are a lot of protection mods) 18:05 ShadowNinja nore: Alright. 18:06 rubenwardy ok 18:08 VanessaE PilzAdam: ok, check the code now. It seems to work right anyway. 18:08 ShadowNinja Hmmm, it seems that GitHub properly auto-closes and marks as merged pulls that are merged with rebase and "git merge --ff-only". 18:09 nore yep, I saw that 18:10 PilzAdam only if they are alraedy rebased, AFAIK 18:10 VanessaE tested by substituting it into homedecor with some textures that clearly show the facedir 18:10 VanessaE oh I guess I better fix the docs too 18:11 PilzAdam cant you put this in misc_helpers.lua or so? 18:11 Evergreen Can someone check this pull request to see if it's good for merging? Can a core dev approve/disapprove this pull request? https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/197 18:11 Evergreen *whoops, accidently copied and pasted something 18:14 VanessaE there, doc updated. 18:15 VanessaE PilzAdam: who, me? 18:15 PilzAdam yes 18:15 VanessaE sure if you want. 18:15 VanessaE it's a habit to keep things like this in its own file, is all 18:18 VanessaE done. 18:18 VanessaE oops 18:18 VanessaE missed a line. 18:19 VanessaE there. 18:20 PilzAdam and why have you added it in lua-api.txt in that line and somewhere else? 18:20 ShadowNinja Hows this? http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6348417/ 18:20 ShadowNinja +' 18:20 PilzAdam *not somewhere else 18:21 PilzAdam ShadowNinja, why is the . part of the link? 18:21 ShadowNinja PilzAdam: Because that was easier. ;-) fixed. 18:22 VanessaE PilzAdam: I couldn't think of a better place to put it than near the original place_node() call 18:22 VanessaE it seemed related. 18:24 ShadowNinja Anthing else PilzAdam? 18:25 ShadowNinja nore: What do you think ^. 18:25 VanessaE ShadowNinja: seems reasonable to me. 18:26 VanessaE PilzAdam: got an idea for a better location? I put it where I did because I figured it would be easy to find. 18:27 PilzAdam I would put it near item_place_node(), but it cant be in that category since its called "Defaults for the on_* item definition functions:" 18:28 VanessaE yeah, that's not really a good place I don't thing. 18:28 VanessaE think* 18:30 PilzAdam put it in "Random:" 18:33 VanessaE done. 18:33 VanessaE (and somehow I managed to remove a couple of bogus spaces at the same time :P ) 18:48 Evergreen Sorry about that previous request, accidentally copy pasted something from my clipboard. Can Someone check to see if this pull request is clear to go? https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/197 18:49 proller http://paste.org.ru/?0080bf WTF! 18:50 proller do not touch history!!!! 18:50 PilzAdam proller, do you read this channel? 18:51 proller sometimes 18:51 PilzAdam the history rewrite was announced and within 10 minutes after the commit that was rewritten 18:51 proller for what? 18:54 Exio4 if you commit something, you are free to change it within a 10(~) minutes range, it is in the guidelines 18:56 proller and nobody can merge master in this 10 minutes 18:56 PilzAdam Exio4, only if you announce it here 18:56 ShadowNinja History rewrites should be avoided of course. 18:57 Exio4 PilzAdam: that is in the "common sense" part i guess? 18:58 proller 895 and 882 conflicting 8( and i cant merge them in one 18:59 thexyz ShadowNinja: shouldn't you tag your topic in the news section with [0.4.8]? 19:00 ShadowNinja thexyz: Ah, yes, done. 19:01 PilzAdam ShadowNinja, and fix everything tha rubenwardy mentioned 19:05 ShadowNinja PilzAdam: Done. 19:06 ShadowNinja All except "* [0.4.8]?" that is 19:06 ShadowNinja And for mods "C++ API" == "builtin API". 19:07 ShadowNinja And "That's not really a hack." == false. 19:11 kaeza It's not a hack; it's called compatibility layer 19:11 VanessaE PilzAdam, ShadowNinja: any other changes to #959 ? 19:55 VanessaE (oops) 20:01 ShadowNinja Perhaps the serverlist flags should be stored in a list, eg, servers.list[0].flags.creative = true, rather than mixed with the other data. 20:01 ShadowNinja I am trying to write a doT.js template for the serverlist now... 20:04 VanessaE so any further changes to #959 ? 20:06 ShadowNinja Not now. 20:06 VanessaE ok. 20:06 * VanessaE pokes PilzAdam 20:06 * general3214 punches PilzAdam 20:07 ShadowNinja Hmmm, creative is set to a empty string, rather that true or 1. 20:15 proller ShadowNinja, good idea 20:23 PilzAdam ShadowNinja, when you create minetest. article in the dev wiki then create that redirects to the article too 20:25 ShadowNinja PilzAdam: Perhaps there should be a auto-redirect. 20:26 ShadowNinja Untested doT.js template: https://gist.github.com/ShadowNinja/7283108 20:26 ShadowNinja It doesn't have the modlist dropdown yet (Because that should be done differently). 20:29 proller http://minetest.setun.net:8000/ - now with penis-meter 20:30 proller * pop = average number of players on server 20:30 sfan5 *cough* 20:30 VanessaE 10 users on realtest? O.o 20:31 proller and average=pi 20:31 VanessaE ha! 20:32 PilzAdam is there a limit for description? 20:32 proller no 21:31 ShadowNinja Here's a version of the serverlist using a doT.js template, it may or ma not work. http://ix.io/8QT 21:32 ShadowNinja (I have to load it on a HTTP server...) 21:34 VanessaE PilzAdam: so, #959 is good? 21:35 ShadowNinja \o/ It works! Although table borders are missing... 21:36 PilzAdam VanessaE, what happens if force_wall and invert_wall are both true? 21:36 VanessaE PilzAdam: force_wall overrides. 21:37 PilzAdam I wonder if it would be better if minetest.rotate_and_place(flags) would return a function that can be used in on_place in nodedef, similiar to item_eat() 21:37 Evergreen Is #197 on minetest_game good for merge? 21:37 VanessaE PilzAdam: I don't know how to do that. 21:38 VanessaE imho the pull as it stands now is good enough for general use :P 21:40 ShadowNinja http://shadowninja.minetest.net/serverlist/ <-- Serverlist w/ template. Needed: human-readable times and modlists. (+style fixes) 21:41 thexyz also needs some design 22:40 ShadowNinja I fixed the serverlist. To anyone that knows how: How should I implement the modlist box and similar boxes? The old way reserved a lot of extra space at the bottom of the screen. 22:42 iqualfragile @randomdevwithalotofsparetime sometimes things get out of sync between client and server 22:43 iqualfragile more precisely: entities 22:43 iqualfragile even if it is a local singleplayer server 22:49 PilzAdam sapier, have you tested #962 ? 22:51 sapier yes on windows as well as linux .. any issues with it? 22:51 PilzAdam and it works? 22:51 sapier at least for me ;) 22:52 PilzAdam it can be merged then 22:52 sapier I only tested irrlich 1.8(windows) as well as 1.7.3(linux) 22:55 ShadowNinja https://github.com/ShadowNinja/minetest/commit/d3cf8a822ebd97d3ef790e210a25bde3d2c888ed 22:55 ShadowNinja proller: ^ Thoughts? 22:57 ShadowNinja Hmmm, I notice that my implementation of humanTime() works a lot better. 22:58 proller 16d 22h 25m 9s 22:58 proller its better? 22:58 proller 9s very important 22:59 proller and now uptime, age - its 2 values 23:00 ShadowNinja proller: I can remove seconds, but it's better than "10.8h 7.6M". 23:00 proller 0.4.7, minetest, undefined 23:00 proller ShadowNinja, its not bettes 23:00 proller r 23:00 * ShadowNinja disagrees. 23:00 proller if value more than day - hours have no sense 23:00 ShadowNinja I will fix the undefined mapgen. 23:01 proller and where is xss transform? 23:02 ShadowNinja proller: Hmmm? The server is expected to send valid data. 23:02 proller no 23:03 proller for server "alert()" is valid 23:03 ShadowNinja proller: That will display as "alert()". 23:04 proller 23:04 ShadowNinja But "" probably won't. 23:04 proller and you lost age value 23:04 ShadowNinja There is probably some standard escapr function... 23:05 proller and why -function get(refresh) { 23:05 ShadowNinja No, age is just always undefined. (Why?) 23:05 proller its defined here http://servers.minetest.net/ 23:06 ShadowNinja No need for it, it is called imediately afterward with refresh unfefined. 23:06 ShadowNinja Odd. 23:09 proller and where is more... 23:12 proller and where is disableable columns 23:12 ShadowNinja proller: Where are they in your version? 23:12 proller http://minetest.setun.net:8000/ - press clients/players 23:13 proller they can be adjusted from html 23:13 proller http://minetest.net/servers - same script 23:13 proller but without ping 23:15 ShadowNinja Hmmm, that can probably be done with doT, if you really want that. The way it works there is a little odd. 23:17 ShadowNinja Ah, I should add display.ping and the like. 23:18 proller .. and template will be not better than now 23:22 ShadowNinja Me and thexyz disagree. 23:27 ShadowNinja With IPv6 support the IP colomn has to be shortened, perhaps the first few charachters and toe rest on hover... 23:34 proller ipv6 with port must be [ip]:port