Time Nick Message 13:14 nore I have a suggestion about inventories: 13:15 nore why wouldn't it be possible to store the stack that is being moved in a special place 13:15 nore and then call (on|allow)_metadata_inventory_(take|put) to that place? 13:33 proller my pulls rebased and ready 14:43 nore I have a question: is there any chance we will ever have a minetest.register_on_block_load(function(minp, maxp)) ? 15:41 celeron55 i looked through pull requests and came up with a list of four people who would probably be good core developers... but i don't know if adding core devs is beneficial 15:44 celeron55 i also would prefer removing two 15:44 celeron55 are people open to such discussion? 15:44 celeron55 maybe three 15:44 celeron55 or even four 15:46 nore celeron55, who? 15:47 nore who would you add, who would you remove? 15:47 celeron55 in no particular order, remove: RBA, darkrose, proller, thexyz, add: ShadowNinja, sapier, 0gb-us, Novatux 15:48 Exio4 novatux = nore :P 15:48 * nore is happy 15:48 celeron55 sure, but i'm talking with github names 15:48 Exio4 ah 15:49 nore I reckon sapier's pulls are good and important, and ShadowNinja's too 15:49 nore about 0gb-us, I have no particular opinion, though 15:51 celeron55 i judge based on both, content of pulls and overall impression (core devs need a certain attitude and way of doing things) 15:52 nore celeron55, what is that attitude to have? 16:03 VanessaE celeron55: don't remove any of the current devsa 16:03 VanessaE -a 16:03 VanessaE that would be pointless 16:04 VanessaE we'll just end up in the same situation as now, where there aren't enough devs, and those we have are burned out, too busy, etc. 16:05 VanessaE hi adam 16:05 VanessaE bbl 16:07 thexyz eh 16:07 thexyz dunno why do you want to remove proller 16:09 celeron55 i won't remove anyone if people are against it 16:10 celeron55 also i won't tell any reasonings about anyone, because it's too personal 16:12 celeron55 but mostly it's lack of activity 16:12 celeron55 (in stuff that core devs have special privileges for) 16:14 celeron55 but everyone hopefully knows i'm a KISS person; i apply the notion that always only adding more and never removing to people too 16:14 celeron55 ... 16:15 celeron55 shit, why have i forgotten how to form sane sentences 16:15 celeron55 *but everyone hopefully knows i'm a KISS person; i apply the notion that always only adding more and never removing anything is bad to people too 18:17 thexyz celeron55: any updates on android port? 18:18 thexyz seems like they're releasing "free" version soon 18:18 celeron55 nothing new that i would've heard 18:19 thexyz how do we plan to use their engine patches? 18:20 celeron55 i don't know; not necessarily at all? depends on what they've done i guess... 18:20 celeron55 and whether it's good code 18:21 thexyz I see 18:22 celeron55 at least their work can be continued on if they quit; which is one of the points of open source 18:22 thexyz dunno, maybe there's a lot of Irrlicht modifications 18:22 thexyz and in that case Minetest engine source code is not really useful 18:23 thexyz should we promote the app? (after the sources are released and all legal stuff is done) 18:23 celeron55 yeah, they don't have to publish irrlicht stuff as irrlicht is free enough for that 18:24 thexyz and then there's a small java part 18:24 celeron55 dunno; i'd wait until it's clear how the response to it ends up like 18:25 celeron55 response from users 18:25 celeron55 if nobody finds it useful nor good, it's kind of insane to try to promote it 18:26 celeron55 otoh if some people do find it useful, then we can expect others to find it useful too 18:26 thexyz well yeah, for now responses looked like "hey, 3 bucks? no fuck u" 18:27 celeron55 oh, they have changed the name now 18:27 thexyz at least 1 guy liked it 18:28 celeron55 hmm, but they mention minetest in there still 18:28 celeron55 let's just wait and not make any early judgements 18:29 celeron55 they probably didn't expect this amount of response this fast anyway and now they need to figure out what they're going to exactly do with it 18:32 celeron55 --- 18:32 celeron55 is it so that nobody is going to have objections to adding more core devs? 18:33 thexyz it's not like we won't be able to revert the commits and remove them if something goes wrong 18:35 celeron55 at least it *shouldn't be* so 18:36 thexyz worst case scenario 18:37 celeron55 why hasn't anyone answered to this properly? https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=7509 18:39 thexyz maybe because nobody knows 18:40 thexyz and saying something general like "it measures performance of some functions" isn't good either 18:40 celeron55 i guess i'll answer 18:41 celeron55 ...not that it's any use at all for any user anyway 18:42 thexyz yes, there's a problem with how things are documented 18:42 thexyz I didn't know about shift+click until yesterday 18:43 celeron55 wuzzy collecting everything he sees into the wiki is useful 8) 18:43 thexyz yeah, it's great to have wiki contributors 18:44 thexyz dev wiki, sadly, seems rather dead 18:45 celeron55 it's alive enough 18:45 thexyz it lacks a lot of API info 18:46 thexyz hm.. it may actually be a good idea to create a page with a list of all things missing 18:47 thexyz but the problem is 18:48 thexyz people create nice and fun things, submit pull requests, those pull requests get merged and then people disappear 18:48 thexyz without adding any docs on how to use those nice and fun things they implemented 18:49 thexyz like those models, attachments and bones 18:52 celeron55 tbh, that's how open source projects often work 18:52 celeron55 it's not ideal 18:53 celeron55 people don't tend to like to do technical writing as a hobby 8) 19:18 PilzAdam its good when others write the docs (in the dev wiki) for new function, not the one who wrote the code 19:18 PilzAdam this way they have the same view as modders at the function, and not the view from the engine 19:19 thexyz yeah, but that's just too unlikely to happen 19:23 celeron55 it might be just an issue of nobody requesting anyone to do it though 19:24 celeron55 so making a page and posting it on modding general could help 19:24 celeron55 a page like thexyz said 19:24 thexyz yeah 19:24 thexyz I just figured out we already have it 19:24 thexyz http://dev.minetest.net/Category:Stub 20:12 thexyz any thoughts for or against services like https://www.bountysource.com/ ? 20:26 celeron55 does someone have experience of anything like that? 20:28 thexyz I donated to a project once 20:31 celeron55 and nothing went wrong? 20:33 thexyz well, actually, somehow paypal didn't work well and then I reported it to #bountysource and they fixed it 20:40 ShadowNinja Sounds good. I don't know if anyone will actually use it, but it's worth a try. 20:41 celeron55 browsing that a bit, it seems to me that it probably won't result in anything particularly bad 20:52 kahrl some people might not want to pay the 10% fee 20:53 VanessaE I have nothing against bug bounties as long as it doesn't cause a trend toward fixing bugs *only* for money 20:53 VanessaE (which is probably not too likely) 20:54 celeron55 it's not likely that there would ever be so much bounties 20:56 kahrl i can foresee a scenario that could introduce hostility: somebody posts a bounty, someone implements the thing hoping to get the money, then the pull request sits in the queue for months 20:58 kahrl perhaps even long enough that the original author is gone, somebody else rebases everything, perhaps adding some of their own code, now who gets to claim the money? 21:00 celeron55 we might need to define a policy that nobody should ever expect a bounty until a proposed fix is agreed on, and if it's agreed on and has been implemented properly, it will be merged with high priority 21:00 celeron55 i'd hate such though 21:00 celeron55 because it favors money 21:00 celeron55 i propose that we're equally lazy-ass as before and hope that nobody takes bounties too seriously 21:01 kahrl sounds good 21:01 celeron55 kahrl: that has happened many times on minetest's history 21:01 celeron55 in* 21:01 celeron55 (that is, some feature is merged only after many independent people have worked on it at different times) 21:04 kahrl I would say if the original pull request fully implemented the feature in a reasonable way the bounty should go to the original author 21:04 kahrl unless somebody comes up with a fair way to proportionally split the bounty 21:07 celeron55 coming up with the design is often hardest so that makes sense 21:08 VanessaE pay the whole bounty to the original author and make it clear that that's how it's gonna be done. 21:09 celeron55 but that might result in people making half-assed implementations and hoping somebody fixes them so they get the bounty 21:09 VanessaE (if it was, as you said, reasonable to begin with, before the hypothetical added code) 21:09 celeron55 it's not acceptable either 21:10 thexyz who's the original author if there're two distinct fixes for a bug 21:10 VanessaE nono, like kahrl said - if the fix was indeed a fix to begin with. why should some random joe get a bounty for forward-porting some old code that worked fine when it was first submitted? 21:10 kahrl thexyz: the one whose code got merged, naturally 21:11 VanessaE thexyz: easy - whosever fix works better and gets merged? 21:11 kahrl I can imagine multiple fixes getting merged for a single bug though (think entity duplication) 21:12 ShadowNinja Kinda unfair if, eg, I write something like LevelDB support, then sfan tweaks it and gets the bounty. 21:12 celeron55 kahrl: then nobody gets the bounty 21:12 thexyz well 21:12 VanessaE kahrl: in which case, split the bounty by come combination fo lines of code and time spent on it 21:12 thexyz how about we throw it in and see how well it'll work 21:12 VanessaE some* 21:12 kahrl ShadowNinja: in that case it was a rebase 21:13 ShadowNinja kahrl: Yes, but he then tweaked it, and that is irrelivant, yet get the idea. 21:13 ShadowNinja you* 21:17 kahrl thexyz: fine by me 21:18 kahrl doesn't cost anything to try (well, unless you're putting up a bounty) 21:20 thexyz celeron55: will you set up it? 21:36 celeron55 how the fuck does this work 21:36 celeron55 i created some kind of a team because it told me to and i don't understand anything now 21:41 celeron55 uhm... i guess this is right: https://www.bountysource.com/trackers/279037-minetest 21:42 celeron55 the automatically generated avatar of github/minetest looks like a noobhouse in the game 21:52 celeron55 while i did set it up, i don't particularly recommend using it 23:02 VanessaE our first user complaint has come across for this Android port... same issue as thexyz, where input fields don't work. 23:02 VanessaE it might be prudent to pressure the devs of that port to fix that right away 23:13 VanessaE https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=116553#p116553