Time Nick Message 09:03 celeron55 should we disallow using the minetest logo as an avatar on the forum? 09:03 celeron55 or at least allow it only for core devs or something 09:04 celeron55 many people have started using it and it's just worthless as an avatar now 09:05 VanessaE I would tend to agree with that idea 09:06 Calinou that's a silly rule 09:06 kaeza Allow it, but allow some other special overlay for devs? 09:06 kaeza like the MT icon plus an overlaid "DEV" or something 09:07 * celeron55 does not like kaeza's suggestion 09:08 kaeza ah well, some random suggestion :P 09:10 * sfan5 has apples on the tree in the logo and a lava lake 09:10 sfan5 s/in the logo and a lava lake/and a lava lake in the logo/ 09:33 thexyz celeron55: we should disallow avatars 09:33 thexyz and use something like gravatar 09:33 thexyz just make it so users cannot change it 09:34 VanessaE gravatar is okay, but not having avatars at all? what is this, 1990? 09:34 thexyz no, this is 2013 09:35 VanessaE exactly. 09:35 VanessaE there's no legit reason to get rid of them. 09:35 thexyz no there is 09:35 thexyz they distract people 09:36 thexyz s/no/yes/ 09:36 VanessaE if you're distracted by a little icon off to one side... um... 09:37 Calinou avatars allow for quick identification 09:37 Calinou and you can still change a gravatar 09:38 thexyz VanessaE: by little ugly icon, yeah 09:38 thexyz that's why I suggest to use gravatar 09:38 thexyz it can generate pretty patterns 09:38 VanessaE not supporting something as simple as an avatar, it makes a site look incomplete 09:38 thexyz reddit is incomplete 09:38 thexyz and hacker news 09:38 thexyz shit 09:38 VanessaE reddit sucks anyway :) 09:39 kaeza +1 for gravatar 09:39 VanessaE but reddit isn't a forum 09:39 kaeza one avatar less to configure :P 09:39 thexyz you said "site" 09:39 VanessaE s/a site/the site/ 09:43 sfan5 -1 for gravatar 09:45 thexyz elaborate 09:45 VanessaE wouldn't it be easier to just add a rule that says something to the effect of "Your avatar may not be substantially the same as anyone else's." 09:45 thexyz no 09:45 thexyz who'll you give minetest icon avatar to? 09:46 thexyz and then, it doesn't matter as others will be angry 09:46 VanessaE whoever had it first? (or to c55, idc who) 09:46 thexyz alright, so who had it first? 09:47 VanessaE actually the first person I noticed was pilz but that doesn't mean I'm right of course. 09:48 VanessaE or give it to whoever originally drew it (erlehmann?) 09:48 VanessaE (I forget) 09:54 celeron55 i think just disallowing using the same avatar as someone else would be sufficient here 09:55 celeron55 the point of an avatar is to allow quickly seeing who is who (or at least on forum.minetest.net it is) 09:55 celeron55 so having the same avatar simply defeats the purpose 09:56 celeron55 unless those having the avatar represent some meaningful group 09:56 thexyz oh well, good luck with that 09:56 celeron55 well this is ultimately up to whether the moderators care 09:57 celeron55 i trust them to have the widest view on what works and what doesn't 11:58 PilzAdam AFAIK I am the first one who had the Minetest logo as an avater 12:03 thexyz see? it's happenin' 12:03 PilzAdam what? 12:04 thexyz nah, nothing 12:04 thexyz I dislike the idea of taking away those avatars from some users 13:41 thexyz we should make remote_media fetch files based on sha1 hash, not name; any objections? 13:59 thexyz now how to do that without breaking anything 14:05 proller +1 and without re-downloading if file exists 14:06 thexyz i thought it doesn't redownload 14:09 thexyz i didn't post it here, but the plan is: make it fetch media by sha1 hash, make cdn.minetest.net a public static server, use free cloudflare plan to cache it 14:09 thexyz then we can add it to default minetest.conf 14:44 kahrl there should always be the option to download by name 14:45 kahrl it allows server owners to easily set up their own remote media server 14:45 thexyz well we can also code a script, similar to django's collectstatic command 14:46 kahrl maybe 14:47 kahrl though if the server owner sees a 404 for some sha1 and wants to fix it that's harder than seeing a 404 for a name 14:47 thexyz he or she just runs collectstatic 14:48 thexyz we can include name as a ?param 14:48 thexyz I just don't see the reason to support both 14:49 kahrl we should ask some remote media server owners what they think 14:50 thexyz that depends on how're we going to present it 14:50 thexyz > hey guys, here's a free fast media server for all your needs 14:50 thexyz > hey guys, we're breaking this once again 14:51 kahrl can everyone upload to cdn.minetest.net? 14:51 thexyz nope, I'm not going to give access to everyone 14:52 kahrl then some are going to want to keep their own server 14:52 thexyz that's true, and they can 14:52 thexyz and it'll be even easier 14:53 proller make names by sha + symlink to real file names 14:54 kahrl proller, that doesn't work 14:54 thexyz i object 14:54 thexyz what if original file is changed 14:54 kahrl a real file names can have multiple different contents 14:54 kahrl name* 14:57 proller real file names for custom servers 15:45 celeron55 only hashes for sure 20:16 VanessaE the media server failing to reliably send .x files (or the client failing to always receive them) needs fixed first 20:18 VanessaE as for filenames vs. hashes, hashes are obviously better for making sure the client gets exactly the variant of a particular file that it needs, but maybe that's overkill? 20:19 sfan5 hashes are hard to manage without some kind of tool 20:19 kahrl has there really been any case where the server doesn't send the .x files? 20:19 VanessaE on my remote media server, I solved that by copying over all the default stuff first, then the third party stuff over that, so the client always gets whatever a mod provides, if it overrides something in default. 20:19 VanessaE kahrl: mine? 20:19 VanessaE except I guess it's the client not using them 20:19 sfan5 happend to me too 20:19 sfan5 on VanessaE's server 20:20 kahrl VanessaE: from what I saw in the logs, the client get active object messages before it has the meshes 20:20 kahrl gets* 20:20 VanessaE kahrl: right, corrected myself after remembering that. 20:20 kahrl so it's really an independent issue from the remote media thing 20:21 kahrl or, well 20:21 VanessaE call it "less-dependent" ;) 20:21 kahrl the client sends TOSERVER_RECEIVED_MEDIA when it starts fetching remote media; maybe it shouldn't do that? 20:22 kahrl does anyone know why it was done that way? 20:22 * sfan5 doesn't 20:23 kahrl indeed, the server checks if the client sent TOSERVER_RECEIVED_MEDIA before it tries sending mapblocks and objects 20:26 kahrl thexyz: any idea? 20:29 thexyz kahrl: because `getClient(peer_id)->definitions_sent = true;` 20:30 thexyz though I'm not sure why that happens before media is received 20:31 kahrl thexyz: when that is set the server assumes the client has all media 20:31 celeron55 kahrl: sending that at that point sounds like totally wrong 20:31 kahrl celeron55: it does to me 20:32 kahrl but when I first saw it, I thought, "that looks so wrong, there must a really good reason for it to be done that way" 20:33 celeron55 i can't remember any reason 20:33 celeron55 try it 20:33 thexyz nah, i probably just fucked it up 20:33 thexyz sorry 20:34 thexyz should be somewhere around line 848 in client.cpp 20:34 kahrl I'm rewriting that part anyway, so no problem 20:34 kahrl (using the httpfetch module) 20:35 thexyz we'll probably need separate domain for cdn 20:35 VanessaE ...which is fucking FAST 20:35 VanessaE :) 20:36 thexyz hm? 20:37 VanessaE thexyz: his httpfetch code. Menche tested it with an empty cache - sucked down all the media off my remote server in like 30s 20:41 thexyz oh that's good 20:43 thexyz I guess "minetest-cdn.net" is good enough, right? 20:44 VanessaE not sure if he had something of a rose tint to his glasses or if that's accurate, but it was fast for sure :) 20:44 sfan5 why not cdn.minetest.net? 20:44 thexyz sfan5: cloudflare requires to delegate domain to them 20:45 sfan5 Tesseract: reconnect, it was my daily disconnect 20:45 kahrl VanessaE: what was his media_fetch_threads? 20:45 sfan5 woops, wrong channeö 20:45 sfan5 channel* 20:47 * VanessaE grumbles 20:51 kahrl VanessaE: what was his media_fetch_threads? 20:51 kahrl (Menche's) 20:51 VanessaE 8 I think 20:52 kahrl ah, that's good then 20:52 VanessaE either 8 or 16, I forget which setting he had in force at the time 20:52 kahrl I don't really know if changing the default to 16 would be a good idea 20:52 VanessaE leaving it at 8 is probably sufficient 20:53 VanessaE users whose net+cpu allow for more can always turn it up 20:54 kahrl it's also the question of whether they use any other net applications that need more than best-effort network 20:54 thexyz kahrl: will you change it to use sha1 hashes? 20:54 kahrl thexyz: probably 20:54 VanessaE right 20:54 kahrl 16 TCP connection have a big initial/minimal congestion window 20:54 kahrl +s 20:55 thexyz kahrl: ok, also please add curl_easy_setopt(curl, CURLOPT_FOLLOWLOCATION, 1); 20:55 kahrl it doesn't follow that by default? curious 20:56 thexyz I think it doesn't 20:57 kahrl what should CURLOPT_MAXREDIRS be set as? 20:58 kahrl maybe 8? 20:58 kahrl I'll set these for all http requests then, no need to distinguish between them I guess 20:58 VanessaE REDIRS as in http redirects? 20:59 kahrl VanessaE, yup 20:59 VanessaE is there any point in allowing more than maybe 2? 20:59 sfan5 2 should be enough redirects 20:59 celeron55 why not allow more? 20:59 sfan5 otherwise it would take too much time 20:59 thexyz I don't think there's much point in allowing more than one, but why not 8? 21:00 celeron55 it's completely useless to not allow more if it's a matter of a single parameter 21:00 kahrl I just don't want to set it to infinite, to avoid infinite loops 21:03 kahrl sfan5: if the server owner uses a slow configuration that's really their own fault 21:04 sfan5 hm, yeah 21:11 thexyz support for multiple remote_media servers would be extremely useful