Time  Nick          Message
00:00 Exio          wut?
00:00 hmmmm         still can't really come up with a solid way to add decorations that would be cut off
00:02 hmmmm         i don't want to use that overly-complicated method i was talking about yesterday, so i said i'd just queue the position to get added later, outside of makechunk
00:03 hmmmm         so do i have a separate decoration queue as part of emergemanager?
00:03 hmmmm         it'd have to be thread-safe, all mapgens share this same thing
00:04 hmmmm         and perhaps one decoration will be done at a time, or else i'll have to find a way to not have them run on areas with intersecting blocks
00:07 Exio          why is that needed?
00:10 Exio          (as, wouldn't be doing the decorations just in the same place to where they "are done" actually? - the lua on_generate / the v6-trees, the caves, etc?)
00:13 hmmmm         lua on_generate is completely different and has nothing to do with this
00:13 Exio          but i mean, the place where it "runs"
00:13 hmmmm         trees and caves aren't going to be taller than a chunk
00:14 hmmmm         the place where it "runs" is the most "horrible" place possible
00:14 hmmmm         when on_generate runs, the rest of the server just pretty much stops
01:06 hmmmm         ugh man
01:07 hmmmm         so what do you guys think is a better idea?  recalculate the lower adjacent chunk's positions and see if anything would've got cut off, and then place the rest of that decoration
01:07 hmmmm         or have those decorations that would be cut off added to a queue and placed in their own specially-sized voxelmanipulator
02:26 RealBadAngel  imho own sized manipulator
02:32 hmmmm         you do realize what i'd need to do for that to happen, right?
02:33 VanessaE      tear your hair out? ;)
02:33 RealBadAngel  but if that would overcomplicate things im fine with other solution
02:33 hmmmm         after finishBlockMake, i'd have to loop through each decoration that didn't fit (which is basically all of the l-systems trees), lock environment, emerge the blocks, unlock environment, generate the tree, lock environment again, blit back, unlock environment, bladdy blah, bladdy blah
02:34 hmmmm         and another thing is that it'd be disjoint from the map generator
02:34 RealBadAngel  for own blit i had trees in mind ofc
02:35 hmmmm         the only advantage of this approach is that it's simpler
02:36 hmmmm         and that you don't need to duplicate computations
02:37 hmmmm         the disadvantages otoh, is that it locks more and it's outside of the mapgen, and lighting computations would be duplicated
02:38 hmmmm         another advantage is that i wouldn't have to make a separate case for horizontally out-of-bounds structures
02:39 hmmmm         humungous buildings would therefore be possible, the only problem is that it'd be shitted up by dirt being placed on top of it
02:40 hmmmm         and let's be honest
02:40 hmmmm         it's much harder to figure out what's part of a discretely placed structure and actual map
02:40 hmmmm         this all goes back to the fundamental "it's not about what was placed, it's about why it was placed" issue
02:45 RealBadAngel  so i would have to check if the tree will fint in generated area?
02:45 RealBadAngel  *fit
02:46 hmmmm         wait, what?  why would you be doing anything
02:46 RealBadAngel  to make sure it will be generated whole, not cut
02:47 RealBadAngel  but if you mean treegen doesnt bother about it,  then pick the way which is better
02:47 hmmmm         are you sure you read the original idea?
02:50 RealBadAngel  "and see if anything would've got cut off, and then place the rest of that decoration"
02:50 RealBadAngel  so what happens with the cut off part?
02:51 hmmmm         in both cases, i'd have the written to a buffer first
02:51 hmmmm         the tree written to*
02:51 hmmmm         the whole tree
02:52 hmmmm         what i'd actually place would be the contents of that buffer, up to the y position that fits in that chunk
02:52 hmmmm         and for the "rest of it", i'd just blit the part that didn't fit below
02:54 hmmmm         you know the more i think about it, the more i'm liking this idea
02:54 hmmmm         except instead of having to recalculate everything, what i would do is add the positions of things that did not fit and their height to a queue that's shared among all mapgens
02:55 hmmmm         that would simplify things a bit, remove the need for duplicating lighting computations, remove the extraneous envlocks
02:56 hmmmm         of course you can overfill the buffer by never having the chunks above the cut-off areas generated, it'd be difficult for a totally legitimate client to do that though
02:56 hmmmm         if the buffer is overfilled, naturally you'd just drop things
02:56 RealBadAngel  and the chunk that will need it will take it off the not added yet things list?
02:56 hmmmm         yes
02:57 hmmmm         would you people please stop playing nick games
02:57 hmmmm         jeez
02:57 RealBadAngel  that sounds reasonable
02:57 keaza         ok sorry i thought i got out of this channel
02:58 hmmmm         and now to decide which chunks each request fulfillment "belongs" to would be obviously an O(n) operation
02:58 hmmmm         ......i try to avoid O(n)
02:59 hmmmm         especially if it involves factors you can't control, like this
02:59 hmmmm         who knows if it can grow into the thousands
02:59 hmmmm         well easy, i'll just make the limit 1024
03:00 hmmmm         alright so any objections?  that's how i'll handle decorations that would be cut off
06:07 celeron55     hmmmm: and in the end, all the thing will actually be used for will be single node plants? 8)
06:14 hmmmm         of course not.. the l-system trees will get cut off quite often
06:16 hmmmm         single node plants, and even cacti and papyrus are handled with the simple decoration type.  they won't ever get added to the cut-off queue
06:16 hmmmm         only schematic and l-system types might
17:32 rubenwardy    +1 for http://dev.minetest.net/User:Rarkenin/Proposal_System
17:39 RealBadAngel  im not quite sure with this. this rules means ONE dev with unknown number of community folks behind (not to be verified, counted or whatever) could be able to push everything
17:40 RealBadAngel  this is unaceptable
17:41 sapier        -1 to proposal system suggestion
17:41 rubenwardy    how many core devs are there?
17:41 RealBadAngel  following this quide lets say one core dev thought lets make pokemon game out of it
17:42 RealBadAngel  published the idea on forums, gather some pokemon fans
17:42 RealBadAngel  and...
17:42 sapier        imho any successfull oss project needs a strong lead I don't know any system wich doesn't have one
17:42 RealBadAngel  we have PokemonTest
17:43 rubenwardy    how about if 5/7 devs say yes, it is merged?
17:43 PilzAdam      sapier, for some resons people think that MTs development is "community driven"
17:43 PilzAdam      -s
17:43 RealBadAngel  replace ONE with AT LEAST TWO of devs
17:44 RealBadAngel  than it will have legs and arms
17:44 sapier        rba I don't even think this is worst thing but what I'm frightened of is all "cool" features beeing added while the really important low level maintenance changes don't get majorities
17:44 sapier        rubenwardy it's already something like that
17:45 RealBadAngel  we are specializing as you may propably noticed
17:45 RealBadAngel  im from some time are not leaving drawtypes
17:45 RealBadAngel  hmmm is mapgen
17:46 RealBadAngel  others are also picked own niches
17:46 RealBadAngel  PA is minecrafting our game for example ;)
17:46 sapier        I guess it's only working this way as mit is to big for one person to know everything
17:47 RealBadAngel  time that ONE know everythin about MT are long time gone
17:47 sapier        is the texture not found problem already fixed?
17:48 RealBadAngel  not my area of expertise :)
17:48 RealBadAngel  dunno
17:48 sapier        maybe it's not working that good :-P
17:48 RealBadAngel  my ass is glue sticked to mapblock_mesh.cpp and the like
17:48 kahrl         what texture not found problem?
17:49 RealBadAngel  at the client shutdown it reports weird error
17:49 RealBadAngel  cannot find or load texture
17:49 RealBadAngel  after ALC is closed
17:50 sapier        my guess is irrlicht tries to create inventorycubes from already unloaded textures
17:50 kahrl         oh the lines with the ^[forcesingle textures?
17:50 RealBadAngel  propably client wants to free memory but texture is already gone
17:50 RealBadAngel  yes
17:50 sapier        it's not a crash issue but a glitch
17:50 sapier        I don't think so if it tried to free it'd crash
17:52 sapier        once I'm able to reproduce it I'll try to find it
17:53 RealBadAngel  install texture pack
17:53 RealBadAngel  turn off preload visuals
17:53 RealBadAngel  shut down client
17:54 sapier        oh no preload visuals
17:54 PilzAdam      it also appears without a TP
17:54 sapier        hmm I don't have preload enabled
17:54 RealBadAngel  OFF
17:55 sapier        its 0 in my config this is off ?
17:55 RealBadAngel  error mesages clearly says that it is all about generated inventory images
17:55 PilzAdam      sapier, yes
17:55 kahrl         I did some dstream-assisted debugging
17:56 kahrl         the culprit is the driver->getTexture call in ~TextureSource
17:57 sapier        maybe it isn't even a problem?
17:59 sapier        ~TextureSource tries to find the texture for all added textures
17:59 sapier        if it finds one its deleted, if not nothing is done
17:59 kahrl         why is ^[forcesingle even needed anymore?
17:59 kahrl         I thought the texture atlas was gone
17:59 kahrl         oh, it is not
17:59 sapier        it's just not really used anymore
18:00 kahrl         I think it should be removed from the code, especially since it doesn't work with the new facedir
18:00 sapier        me too but I was more eager to fix the memory leaks
18:01 sapier        but getting back to the error message maybe there's a way to check for a texture not using getTexture to avoid that message beeing shown
18:01 sapier        this message is issued by irrlicht not mt
18:01 kahrl         ^[forcesingle is basically wasted video memory nowadays
18:05 sapier        II'll have a look how to remove it
18:05 sapier        looks like some work on first glance
18:08 RealBadAngel  kahrl, texture atlas is obsolete
18:08 RealBadAngel  and is defaulted to off
18:10 RealBadAngel  current namespace is like each texture has its own atlas
18:11 sapier        still kahrl is right this should be cleaned up
18:11 RealBadAngel  ofc
18:12 kahrl         some mesh making code could be optimized by removing members for AtlasPointer, etc.
18:12 emptty        sapier: your mods depend on "default", but I get a warning that this mod does not exist. Should I fill an issue?
18:12 kahrl         members of*
18:12 sapier        yes ... why does default not exist?
18:12 emptty        I've no idea
18:12 RealBadAngel  c55 made some significant changes to it lately
18:12 PilzAdam      emptty, the default mod in common is just not recognized
18:13 PilzAdam      everything should work, though
18:13 emptty        everything works, yes
18:13 sapier        so not a mobf bug but core
18:13 RealBadAngel  im familiar with the code after the changes
18:13 RealBadAngel  i just put the last nail to texture atlas coffin
18:15 sapier        argh ... I thought I've fixed all memory leaks ... could each of you plz stop adding new ones !? ;-)
18:15 PilzAdam      no
18:15 RealBadAngel  are you lookin at me sapier? :)
18:16 sapier        no I'm not looking at anyone special :-) as I don't know who added this :-) maybe it's even a special case that didn't occcur before
18:17 RealBadAngel  name the case
18:17 sapier        CItemDefMangager:RegisterItem
18:17 RealBadAngel  uhhh, definitely this region have never seen my cursor blinkin
18:18 sapier        allocates memory in a quite complex stl structure that isn't freed correctly
18:20 kahrl_        sounds like that was me
18:20 RealBadAngel  hehe
18:20 sapier        if(m_item_definitions.count(def.name) == 0)
18:20 sapier        m_item_definitions[def.name] = new ItemDefinition(def);
18:20 sapier        else
18:20 sapier        *(m_item_definitions[def.name]) = def;
18:20 sapier        oops
18:21 sapier        who wants to be blamed for this? :-)
18:21 RealBadAngel  kahrl, btw have you tested this nested meshbuffers fix?
18:21 sapier        if there's already memory used forget about it and get new one without freeing the old memory :-)
18:22 sapier        stop .., I'm wrong
18:22 kahrl_        RealBadAngel: yes but only a bit
18:22 RealBadAngel  how?
18:23 kahrl_        a mapblock full of allfaces nodes
18:23 kahrl_        used to simply not show some of the nodes, with my fix it shows all
18:23 RealBadAngel  have u dumped how many buffers are you using?
18:23 kahrl_        no
18:23 sapier        no not quite  ... Itemdef is a struct not working correct with = operator
18:24 RealBadAngel  you know that in the first place mt way is RAPE agaisnt irrlicht engine
18:24 RealBadAngel  meshbuffers are supposed to dispaly scene nodes
18:25 kahrl_        sapier: ItemDefinition has an operator=
18:25 RealBadAngel  models
18:25 RealBadAngel  not whole world
18:25 sapier        yes but somehow there's still memory lost allocated here
18:25 kahrl_        maybe a bug in operator=?
18:26 sapier        I'm looking for it
18:26 kahrl_        RealBadAngel: are there any bad consequences of that?
18:26 RealBadAngel  maybe we shall take a step in separating elements of the world
18:26 sapier        but seams to be fine
18:26 RealBadAngel  yes
18:26 RealBadAngel  we hit the vertices limit for ONE MODEL
18:27 kahrl_        a model doesn't have a vertex limit
18:27 RealBadAngel  folks in irrlicht forums responded to such question: who the fuck would need so many vertices for one model...
18:27 kahrl_        a meshbuffer has an indices limit
18:27 sapier        argh
18:27 RealBadAngel  vertices/indices
18:27 sapier        there's my fix of fix missing in CItemDefManager
18:27 RealBadAngel  same for me ;)
18:27 RealBadAngel  effect is the same
18:28 kahrl_        link to that forum post?
18:28 RealBadAngel  to much stuff pushed into one bin
18:28 sapier        https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/635
18:28 sapier        could someone plz merge this?
18:29 RealBadAngel  maybe if we could spilt meshbuffers for nodeboxes, water, entities etc?
18:30 kahrl_        RealBadAngel: why would you do that
18:31 kahrl_        other than having separate meshbuffers for different materials, which is already done
18:31 RealBadAngel  first of all avoid the limits
18:31 kahrl_        my patch makes it avoid the limits
18:31 sapier        by some time there need to be changes for shaders
18:32 RealBadAngel  im not sure about proper alpha handling
18:32 RealBadAngel  this is sorted for scene nodes
18:32 RealBadAngel  not meshbuffers
18:32 emptty        sapier: how can I generate locally the doc that is on http://animalsmod.comuf.com/?  I'm sick of the advertisements :/
18:33 RealBadAngel  if everythin is put into one bin we have weird problems
18:33 kahrl_        No, irrlicht does not do transparency sorting
18:34 kahrl_        It renders the opaque nodes before transparent nodes, but that's it
18:34 sapier        it's difficult you need lua2dox in an updated version ... didn't know about the advertisement till now, I'll create a download zip
18:34 emptty        thx
18:34 kahrl_        parts of nodes* (depending on how the scenenodes are implemented)
18:35 RealBadAngel  kahrl_, i dont know enough about it yet, just repeatin what other devs said
18:35 kahrl_        I'm talking about scenenodes here, not minetest nodes
18:36 RealBadAngel  propably c55 took "node" name from irrlicht namespace
18:36 RealBadAngel  scene node is complete object, mesh
18:36 kahrl_        in minetest the entire world is 1 scene node
18:37 RealBadAngel  in our case, whole mt world is irrlicht's scene node
18:37 RealBadAngel  genau
18:37 sapier        genau? :-)
18:37 RealBadAngel  exactly
18:37 kahrl_        richtig
18:37 sapier        lol
18:37 RealBadAngel  hehe
18:38 RealBadAngel  thus node to node interaction is not possible
18:38 RealBadAngel  like alpha sorting
18:38 kahrl_        like I said, irrlicht doesn't do transparency sorting
18:39 RealBadAngel  c55 said it does, but between nodes
18:39 RealBadAngel  or at least i think he did
18:40 RealBadAngel  some1 did for sure :)
18:40 RealBadAngel  if not him then hmmmm
18:42 RealBadAngel  anyway, for mesh drawtype i will introduce next meshbuffer
18:43 sapier        mesh drawtype for nodes?
18:43 RealBadAngel  i pretty sure it will be good solution
18:43 RealBadAngel  yes
18:43 sapier        are you sure this is the right way to go?
18:43 RealBadAngel  *im
18:43 RealBadAngel  yup
18:44 RealBadAngel  crystal thingies/animated nodes etc
18:44 sapier        this means breaking simplicity of map while giving up exact collision handling
18:45 kahrl_        I can't find any reference to depth sorting in the irrlicht documentation
18:45 RealBadAngel  collision box will have to be defined as a box, for sure
18:45 sapier        as I said giving up exact collision handling
18:45 kahrl_        what does rendering have to do with collision handling?
18:46 RealBadAngel  we r livin in a voxel world
18:46 sapier        currently you collide to what you see in a world (not considering special entitiy case)
18:46 RealBadAngel  box is enough
18:46 sapier        but with entities you can see what anyoing effects giving up visible<->collision box incoherence has
18:47 RealBadAngel  separate from what you can actually see. box is good aproximation
18:47 sapier        try mobf you'll see what I mean
18:47 RealBadAngel  sapier, you mean no "headshots" possible
18:47 kahrl_        well you'd collide with air if you set it to walkable
18:48 sapier        .... no I mean ppl standing in the air because of colision boxes not fitting to meshes
18:48 kahrl_        also: try walking through a door while sneaking
18:48 RealBadAngel  price for doing so fancy things we had in mind? ;)
18:48 kahrl_        (sneaking increases the player's collision box, causing you to collide with the door sometimes even though you shouldn't)
18:49 sapier        it's not a new problem true but if even map isn't node based the problem will become much more visible and anoying
18:50 sapier        maybe a limited set of new node geometrys would be a better approach
18:51 RealBadAngel  this is problem of tuning just imho, not a real problem like we are fighting atm
18:51 sapier        no it's not a tuning problem the only real way of fixing this problem is creating a mesh aware collision system
18:51 RealBadAngel  better tell me why before adding luajit i had 25-30fps, after adding i jumped to 55-60
18:52 sapier        maybe this is an easy task, but I don't have any idea how to do this in a performant way
18:52 RealBadAngel  and last two weeks it dropped to 15-20
18:52 sapier        don't know ... maybe object object collision handling?
18:53 sapier        depends on how many objects are in your world
18:53 kahrl_        I downloaded the irrlicht source and apparently it does sort transparent nodes by distance
18:53 RealBadAngel  something pushed recently caused signigificant frame drop
18:53 RealBadAngel  with luajit onboard (which is at least 2x faster)
18:54 kahrl_        but still, you can't make a new scene nodes for each minetest node without tossing all performance down the drain
18:54 sapier        is luajit still enabled?
18:54 kahrl_        -s
18:54 sapier        maybe a scene node for each block?
18:54 kahrl_        that wouldn't fix the glitches
18:54 RealBadAngel  if its in your system it is autodetected
18:55 sapier        and this is working correct?
18:55 RealBadAngel  yes
18:55 sapier        volonteers for bisecting changes? ;-)
18:56 RealBadAngel  luajit was tested on vanessae server month before merging
18:56 sapier        I'm not talking about luajit I know its way more performant
18:59 RealBadAngel  look thats somethin in between my glasslike_framed push and 2 weeks back in the history
18:59 RealBadAngel  i made freeze while i was workin on it
19:00 RealBadAngel  code before was workin fine, addin the _framed too
19:00 RealBadAngel  but when i merged the trees i noticed slowdown
19:01 sapier        luahud?
19:02 RealBadAngel  dunno, first thing i noticed that hearts 128x textures takes whole screen and doesnt fit
19:03 RealBadAngel  i had to go back for 16x textures for it
19:04 RealBadAngel  i do have workin trees on my hdd for 5-6months back in time
19:04 RealBadAngel  i do name them by dates and project involved
19:05 RealBadAngel  so i can easily step back and check who did it
19:06 RealBadAngel  i dont like github so im doin my own trees and branching
19:10 RealBadAngel  kahrl, btw: http://i.imgur.com/OapBLIO.jpg
19:16 sfan5         my client crashes when i join the server i host for markveidemanis: http://pastie.org/7744540
19:16 kahrl_        RealBadAngel: these guys should randomly spawn as mobs on the surface
19:17 kahrl_        anyway, what do you mean with that screenshot?
19:17 sapier        mobs > 1 block are a little bit difficult to do movement
19:18 sapier        -block + node
19:18 RealBadAngel  kahrl_, i mean with this we can use all irrlicht code
19:19 sapier        is using all irrlicht code target?
19:19 sapier        if so we need to do some basic changes in code
19:19 kahrl_        hm? we already had 3d players using models
19:19 RealBadAngel  this is from irrlicht examples
19:19 sapier        but what s new?
19:20 RealBadAngel  imho separation is needed
19:20 sapier        separation of what?
19:21 RealBadAngel  displayed things
19:21 sapier        currently separation is block like static objects --> nodes
19:21 sapier        dynamic things --> entities
19:22 RealBadAngel  and buffers said: NO
19:22 kahrl_        what?
19:22 sapier        :-) you have to tell me what you're aiming at
19:22 RealBadAngel  NODE is not a single node in the world
19:22 kahrl_        are you seriously saying 1 minetest node should be 1 scene node?
19:23 RealBadAngel  block, box, node, stone whatever you call it
19:23 RealBadAngel  no
19:23 RealBadAngel  one kind of them
19:23 RealBadAngel  solid ones, water, objects, players, etc
19:24 RealBadAngel  split them into groups
19:24 kahrl_        water? you know there are giant oceans with thousands of water nodes
19:24 RealBadAngel  ofc
19:25 RealBadAngel  we are talkin about different display ways
19:25 RealBadAngel  now all is in fact the same
19:25 kahrl_        not really, since they are in separate meshbuffers
19:26 kahrl_        with different materials
19:26 RealBadAngel  excuse me
19:26 RealBadAngel  now is in ONE meshbuffer
19:27 RealBadAngel  *all
19:27 kahrl_        have you read the source of MeshCollector::append()?
19:27 RealBadAngel  all nodes at least
19:28 RealBadAngel  im talkin nodes only by now
19:29 kahrl_        I don't think you know what you're talking about, I'm sorry :|
19:29 RealBadAngel  i used to hear such phrase
19:30 kahrl_        I tried to delay saying it
19:31 RealBadAngel  sorry. but when i do see adding to mesh collector, and it says its out of vertices/indices i dont think it sorted and using any more than just one
19:32 kahrl_        Yep. That's because the nodes that caused the meshbuffer to overflow were all the same kind of node.
19:33 kahrl_        Or used the same texture/material, at least
19:35 kahrl_        In my test I had a mapblock full of allfaces nodes. That's 16*16*16 nodes, with 6 faces each, with 6 indices per face, for a total of 147456 indices
19:35 RealBadAngel  youre tryin to tell me that we had multiple buffers for each materials before?
19:35 kahrl_        One buffer for one material
19:35 kahrl_        With a limit of 65535 indices. My patch makes it so it begins a new buffer when that limit is reached
19:35 RealBadAngel  shit, i should dig code deeper then
19:36 RealBadAngel  mea culpa
19:36 RealBadAngel  i thought its overall
19:37 RealBadAngel  so, this case, i think your patch is the right thing
19:38 RealBadAngel  extend the limit just with going for next buffer
19:40 RealBadAngel  and the sidenote: i should really shut up about the code i havent read to the last bit
19:41 kahrl_        meh, I do that too at times
19:41 kahrl_        like with the irrlicht and transparency sorting thing
19:41 RealBadAngel  i just judged it by behavuir
19:42 RealBadAngel  and some c55 and hmm comment too, to be honest
19:44 RealBadAngel  ehhh, man is learnin whole the lifetime and dies stupid
19:44 RealBadAngel  at least i do try to learn more
19:44 sapier        that's why we are here ;-)
19:44 sapier        to learn more
19:45 RealBadAngel  c55 didnt believed me on my very first days i was her that i came to mod and code
19:45 kahrl_        ok, I made it print when it has to start a new mesh (with my patch)
19:46 kahrl_        with the mapblock full of allfaces nodes, that's 2 times
19:46 RealBadAngel  now i think he believes, but i, on the other hand more and more are realiznin i need to learn mor
19:46 RealBadAngel  e
19:46 kahrl_        so 3 meshbuffers, as expected
19:46 kahrl_        start a new meshbuffer*
19:49 RealBadAngel  etities have own meshbuffer or not?
19:57 RealBadAngel  bbl, have to go
19:57 kahrl_        "it's complicated"
19:57 kahrl_        they don't use the same meshbuffer as any mapblock
19:57 kahrl_        they have their own mesh
19:57 kahrl_        however, entities with the same mesh reuse that mesh, depending on the entity drawtype
20:07 sapier        anyone plz merge this one? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/635
20:59 emptty        sapier: I was considering adding a new NPC to your framework, but I'm a bit lost. Do you have some time to chat about it, please?
21:14 celeron55     20:43:58 <+RealBadAngel> following this quide lets say one core dev thought lets make pokemon game out of it <+RealBadAngel> published the idea on forums, gather some pokemon fans <+RealBadAngel> and... <+RealBadAngel> we have PokemonTest
21:14 celeron55     did you actually read it at all?
21:15 celeron55     it specifically disallows that kind of thing
21:15 celeron55     anyone's opinion counts just as much as it contains rational reasoning
21:16 celeron55     and you aren't going to get any of that from some random forum fan
21:17 celeron55     and if you do, and it's wrong, it can be made to count as none by proper counter reasoning (eg. for that pokemon example, just say there that it's not possible because of trademark reasons)
21:18 celeron55     doing everything based on proposal has it's problems, but that is not one of them
21:18 celeron55     proposals*
22:03 BlockMen      hi, can someone tell me if that could work? http://pastie.org/private/wabue9etdjqb5mhyfblg#910-913 and http://pastie.org/private/uhr8c4gf0nmwyos1r5g7bg#189  (its guiFormSpecMenu.cpp and guiFormSpecMenu.h)
22:12 kahrl_        BlockMen: does anything call closeFormSpec()?
22:13 BlockMen      not yet, i just wanted know if it is "that easy"
22:13 kahrl_        it should work
22:14 emptty        How far are we from the next stable release?
22:14 BlockMen      ok, thx. then i can try to get it called from lua
22:14 BlockMen      *now
22:20 BlockMen      kahrl_, do i have to include guiFormSpecMenu.h (with #include "") in scriptapi.ccp if i want call it from lua?
22:20 Exio          emptty: i know leveldb "should be" in 0.4.7
22:21 emptty        Exio: what it this?
22:21 Exio          emptty: a new and "faster" level format
22:21 Exio          https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/326
22:24 emptty        Exio: so you mean that we are quite far away from releasing 0.4.7 because this big blob must still go in, right? I'm not sure I see the connexion here
22:24 PilzAdam      emptty, we dont when we the next stable release will be released
22:26 emptty        sure, it's released when it's ready, as usual. My question was whether you guys were thinking of releasing or thinking that you need more features to go in
22:26 Exio          i just know what "needs" to be in 0.4.7 is leveldb, no idea about other stuff
23:00 kahrl_        BlockMen: yes
23:01 kahrl_        erm I mean no
23:01 kahrl_        lua is on the server and formspec menus are on the client
23:01 kahrl_        so you have to send a network message and handle it in CLient
23:01 kahrl_        -L +l
23:02 kahrl_        oh, just saw the discussion in #minetest
23:03 BlockMen      kahrl_, sry that im so impatient ;)
23:03 BlockMen      and just wanted send http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest/2013-04-30#i_3060580 link to that at #minetest
23:14 BlockMen      kahrl_, so something like that? -> http://pastie.org/private/obxjxl6tm16mgtwwhpg7ga
23:14 kahrl_        nah
23:15 kahrl_        in requestCloseFormSpec, send a TOCLIENT_CLOSEFORMSPEC message
23:15 kahrl_        which you need to design
23:15 sapier1       and make sure you don't mess up the formspec name fix :-)
23:16 BlockMen      damn, that is more complex than i hoped...
23:17 Exio          you wanted to change things in the client with a server-side command :P
23:17 sapier1       :-) it's not that complicated I've it on my list for quite some time but didn't have time by now
23:17 PilzAdam      also an on_formspec_close() would be nice
23:18 PilzAdam      since you are already working in that part of the code...
23:18 sapier1       not even my old bugs are fixed I wont add new ones to that code ;-)
23:19 BlockMen      PilzAdam, you are kidding? im glad i came so far already...
23:20 BlockMen      and do i send messages to client like here -> https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/server.cpp#L856 ?
23:20 sapier1       and closing isn't as simple as opening ... currently never ever a form is closed without user interaction
23:21 sapier1       last time I had a look at this I didn't even find a reference to the current open formspec. if I didn't miss it this would have to be added first
23:22 kahrl_        BlockMen: look at Server::SendShowFormspecMessage
23:22 BlockMen      kahrl_, thx
23:23 sapier1       sending the message is the easy part ;-)
23:24 kahrl_        actually a list of currently open formspecs or can there only be one?
23:24 sapier1       only one at a time on a client
23:25 sapier1       currently there's a bug a formspecs name isn't updated if you send a new one, but gui is updated
23:25 sapier1       thats what my changeset fixes
23:25 kahrl_        oh, so you'd send a CE_CLOSE_FORMSPEC from the client to the main loop and close current_formspec there
23:25 kahrl_        that would work, yes?
23:25 sapier1       still as far as I know there is no reference or pointer to the open gui
23:26 VanessaE      kahrl_: regarding the out-of-indicies/too-many-verticies issue...  would you mind testing it against something insane like the 'slopes' branch of homedecor, or those 'noncubic' type mods?
23:26 sapier1       updating gui and formname works by updating guis content elements
23:26 kahrl_        VanessaE: sure
23:26 VanessaE      thanks
23:27 kahrl_        how many of the slopes would I have to place in a mapblock?
23:27 VanessaE      I would say around 30.
23:27 VanessaE      of the ones in homedecor that is
23:27 kahrl_        Okay, that's doable
23:27 VanessaE      and place them up high
23:27 VanessaE      (the rendering glitch manifested itself as the uppermost polys disappearing as I panned down.
23:28 BlockMen      ok, i guess it was a bad idea to start that with my noob "skills"...
23:28 BlockMen      what is the peer_id (https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/server.cpp#L3453) and where i get it from?
23:28 kahrl_        sapier1: in GUIFormSpecMenu::drawMenu it grabs the new formspec
23:29 VanessaE      BlockMen: everyone is a noob in the beginning.
23:29 kahrl_        if that is an empty string, the menu could close itself
23:30 VanessaE      kahrl_: each slope, in my code, consists of 256 individual nodeboxes, so you can figure how many vertexes/indexes that is :)
23:31 VanessaE      (it would be a simple eight-poly node mesh, which RBA is working on, but I'm impatient. :D )
23:31 kahrl_        heh that's insane. I like insane
23:31 VanessaE      :DDD
23:31 BlockMen      VanessaE, nice words :P
23:32 VanessaE      BlockMen: my point is, don't let it get you down if you fail now - eventually you'll succeed.
23:35 BlockMen      VanessaE, ya i know. but i can remember how much time it needs to learn...and i dont know if i will have the time(and will) for it
23:35 BlockMen      but we will see...
23:36 BlockMen      ok, what is the "peer_id" now?
23:37 sapier1       you need to get it same way it's fetched for show_formspec
23:38 VanessaE      BlockMen: well time isn't much of an issue, if you can give even a few minutes at a time to learning a concept, you can learn it.  Having the motivation or not, I can surely understand that. :-/
23:38 sapier1       it's just an identifier for a client ... it doesn't matter what it is in current implementation (at least not for your usecase)
23:39 BlockMen      ahh, there it comes from...
23:40 sapier1       blockmen you'll never be finished with learing each of us (except those with really big egos) is still in learning phase ;-)
23:42 BlockMen      VanessaE, for me the time is a fact because i have alot other things to learn every day. but i agree that the motivation is the more important point
23:42 BlockMen      sapier, thats true. but the beginning sucks most (IMO). having a solid base is often enough :)
23:43 sapier1       imho best thing to learn is to do mistakes :-) it's a hard way to learn but most effective one
23:43 VanessaE      BlockMen: the way I figure it, if you have time to spend chatting on IRC, you can find a few minutes to learn a craft as well - no one's life should be so crammed full of activities that they have no time to just relax and play.
23:44 VanessaE      it's neither physically nor socially healthy.
23:44 sapier1       and of course relaxing is best way to get distance to recognize you're path to solution is actually directed in opposite direction ;-)
23:44 VanessaE      exactly
23:45 BlockMen      true. best solutions are found from distance :)
23:45 VanessaE      how many times have you been working diligently on a problem, only to be stonewalled for hours, until you sleep for a while.  Then you wake up and the solution hits you in so obvious a way as to make you feel like a complete idiot :-)
23:45 sapier1       I wouln't say this that general but at least for some situations distance helps
23:46 BlockMen      btw solutions: wouldnt it be alot easier to close a formspec when name = nil, like kahrl said here "kahrl_: if that is an empty string, the menu could close itself" (idk if he actually ment that)
23:47 Exio          VanessaE: well, that is how i program
23:47 sapier1       would be an option to avoid adding a new message
23:47 Exio          i'm a whole day doing stuff
23:47 Exio          then when i wake up the other way
23:47 sapier1       imho a good idea
23:47 Exio          i just remove the files, and write the "proper" code what is 10% or 15% of what it was and is far better, :D
23:48 sapier1       "del" is programmers best friend ... removes bugs without need to find them first
23:48 BlockMen      sapier, then i will follow that way. but not today anymore...
23:49 sapier1       you'll have to find a way to close the current formspec once you found it, remaining part is writing some text only
23:50 BlockMen      sapier1, when doin it that way i could just add that -> http://pastie.org/private/wabue9etdjqb5mhyfblg#910-913
23:50 BlockMen      *and call it when formname = nil
23:51 sapier1       not quite
23:51 BlockMen      not? why?
23:52 sapier1       as long as a formspec is shown no new formspecmenu is created but the old one is updated
23:52 sapier1       if you create a new one without cleaning up the old one you loose memory
23:52 VanessaE      kahrl_: so, did your video card blow up? ;)
23:53 sapier1       wait
23:53 sapier1       yes you could call the quit if you had the object to call it from
23:54 jordan4ibanez We need tin.
23:54 BlockMen      ok, you said when a formspec is open that one is just updated, right?
23:55 sapier1       yes but it's updated in a quite strange way
23:55 BlockMen      so then void GUIFormSpecMenu::drawMenu() is called i guess
23:55 BlockMen      and that means i have the object, correct?
23:55 sapier1       not the formspec itself is updated but the content
23:55 sapier1       it's done this way because you don't actually have the formspec gui element
23:56 BlockMen      hmm, ic
23:56 sapier1       I guess you need to change it so you actually have the formspec gui element available where you need it
23:56 kahrl_        oh my lord the framerate
23:57 kahrl_        it's so high
23:57 kahrl_        http://imgur.com/wKgoflV
23:57 kahrl_        that's 256 slopes
23:57 sapier1       move your head from ground kahrl it'll drop :)
23:57 VanessaE      kahrl_: how's your ....ouch, drawtime = 75?
23:58 kahrl_        nope, still around 12 FPS :D
23:58 VanessaE      that translates to what, around 5fps? :)
23:59 VanessaE      oh heh
23:59 VanessaE      what's your normal rate?
23:59 kahrl_        around 60
23:59 VanessaE      haha
23:59 VanessaE      well it's good to know they work
23:59 VanessaE      but I think long-term, that particular node is a dead idea :D
23:59 kahrl_        interestingly the framerate dropped quick when I placed the first few nodes
23:59 VanessaE      but it makes for a good stress test :D
23:59 kahrl_        but then it settled