Time  Nick         Message
00:00 VanessaE     savedgames: do it again.
00:00 VanessaE     sometimes the first command is ignored.
00:00 VanessaE     or rather, doesn't "complete".
00:00 VanessaE     now,  /grant singleplayer all
00:00 VanessaE     then tap 'k', then press and hold space until you are up out of the ground, assumign the teleport put you underground.
00:01 Exio         savedgames: what did you do before "getting" that world? (and what version are you using?)
00:01 savedgames   I use 0.4.6 from a ppa I think
00:01 VanessaE     Exio: he's on 0.4.6, and he probably used a trampoline or some other mod that can move a player very fast/
00:01 Exio         thinking that
00:01 savedgames   I had all mods DISABLED
00:01 savedgames   cause thats what I thought the cause was for the last world getting grey
00:02 VanessaE     savedgames: he means originally, when the world seemed to go bad,.
00:02 VanessaE     savedgames: did the teleport work?
00:02 savedgames   Well, no.
00:02 savedgames   I first granted all those privs
00:02 savedgames   then I tried teleporting
00:03 VanessaE     ok
00:03 VanessaE     what do your coords read now?
00:03 savedgames   -214748
00:03 VanessaE     shit
00:03 VanessaE     ok teleport again.
00:03 savedgames   the middle coords change rapidly
00:03 savedgames   is that normal?
00:04 VanessaE     no it isn't.
00:04 VanessaE     that means you're probably falling like crazy
00:04 VanessaE     or still being catapulted somewhere.
00:04 VanessaE     turn on fly.
00:04 VanessaE     ('k')
00:04 VanessaE     ("free move")
00:04 savedgames   I just press /k?
00:04 VanessaE     no, just k
00:04 VanessaE     no slash
00:04 VanessaE     did you see "free move enabled"?
00:04 VanessaE     (bottom left corner of the window)
00:05 savedgames   my laptop got to lots of degrees...Im restarting...
00:05 savedgames   minetest.
00:06 VanessaE     ok
00:06 savedgames   I see again...my coords are about the same but I SEE.
00:06 savedgames   it must have helped
00:06 VanessaE     ok wait.
00:06 VanessaE     you have all privs now.
00:06 VanessaE     press 'k' to turn free move on.
00:07 savedgames   when I turned off free move it got all grey
00:07 VanessaE     that's normal
00:07 savedgames   but when I turned it on I could see again :D
00:07 VanessaE     as long as it's OK
00:07 VanessaE     ON
00:07 VanessaE     now, /teleport 0,30,0
00:07 VanessaE     free move also stops you from accelerating :-)
00:07 savedgames   worked
00:07 VanessaE     you're back on familiar ground now?
00:07 savedgames   and much less cpu is used now.
00:08 savedgames   well maybe not but I'm thankful for being somewhere, and at least being in my world. :D
00:08 VanessaE     good, then it worked :D
00:08 VanessaE     as long as you can see the world around you, you should be good again.
00:09 savedgames   During the night I can see some lights...so I'll probably see some torches somewhere :D
00:09 VanessaE     you can use that same trick any time you get teleported out to insane coordinates like that.  That bug has since been fixed in git (
00:09 savedgames   wow. I'm thankful for all your help
00:09 VanessaE     (or at least, it's been significantly helped)
00:09 VanessaE     no problem.
00:09 Exio         well, no the bug of eating the whole cpu for being in -23472323942384234234
00:10 Exio         but yes the main bug what casued you to went to that coords :P
00:10 VanessaE     well yeah, the bug that causes you to eat massive CPU ain't fixed, just the part that put you there ;)
00:10 savedgames   Is the information about the bugs stored in a bugtracker or do you communicate the bugs on irc?
00:11 Exio         http://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues
00:11 Exio         (iirc the link :P)
00:11 Exio         but some bugs like that went fixed by just talking here, and throw a pull request then
00:11 VanessaE     savedgames: we do both, though github is preferred if this channel is particularly busy.  Note that we normally prefer to discuss non-core stuff (e.g. bugs, features) over on #minetest
00:11 savedgames   Who fixed the bug?
00:12 VanessaE     I think exio did :)
00:12 savedgames   aha, bugs on minetest...well then that's where I should have gone in the first place :D
00:12 Exio         the "fix" is just a limit in the acceleration
00:13 savedgames   Do any of the developers accept BTC as a donation(?), for the project I mean.
00:13 Exio         i don't know if any core dev has a BTC for that
00:14 savedgames   I'm moving now to #minetest, so that this channel can remain about core issues...
00:14 Exio         would be nice to accept LTC too :D
02:37 hmmmm        ahhh
02:37 Exio         what?
02:38 hmmmm        VanessaE, i finally got some time to look at the large health bar images
02:38 hmmmm        that's not a bug, that's an enhancement
02:38 VanessaE     oh cool.
02:38 VanessaE     so what shall I do in HDX?
02:38 VanessaE     just reduce them?
02:38 hmmmm        I guess make the heart textures 16x16 again
02:38 VanessaE     okay.
02:39 Exio         make them like a progress bar
02:39 hmmmm        in order to just draw them at a larger size but not make them cut the inventory list off, i'd need to make assumptions about where it's being placed
02:40 hmmmm        there's really no clean way to do that
02:40 VanessaE     then you have to hard-code the images to always be scaled to 16px, lest some mod try to use huge 32+px images and screw everyone else up
02:41 hmmmm        not hardcoding shit.
02:41 hmmmm        that's a hack.
02:42 hmmmm        well
02:42 hmmmm        vanessa, do you like the bigger hearts?
02:42 VanessaE     kinda, but they're maybe just a *little* too big now
03:07 VanessaE     in fact at 800x600, the line of hearts is longer than the hotbar :-)
03:07 VanessaE     (just now noticed it)
03:07 VanessaE     so drawing them at either actual size or at a fixed pixel size is probably wrong.
03:07 VanessaE     they should be scaled relative to the screen, like items in the inventory are.
03:46 hmmmm        hey celeron55, i have an excellent, elegant solution to the HUD layout problem
03:46 hmmmm        player:get_screen_res()
03:46 hmmmm        that's the secret to being successful, kids.  delegation.
04:05 RealBadAngel that maybe useful
04:05 hmmmm        the idea is to solve all problems by shifting the problems onto the modmaker
04:06 hmmmm        http://ompldr.org/vaTVseA
04:06 RealBadAngel hehehe
04:07 VanessaE     mmmh
04:08 VanessaE     heh
04:12 RealBadAngel call it total freedom what modder can do, sounds way better ;)
04:14 hmmmm        modders already have total freedom
04:14 hmmmm        they can transform minetest into absolutely any program they'd like - they just need to know C/++
04:14 hmmmm        they can mod minetest into a calculator if they wanted to.
09:57 maxdron      hi. Who maintains wiki?
09:57 PilzAdam     wich wiki?
09:57 maxdron      http://wiki.minetest.com
09:58 PilzAdam     that doesnt belong into this channel, please go to #minetest
09:58 maxdron      sorry
18:00 iqualfragile pilzadam: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/648 please merge
18:01 PilzAdam     have you tested it?
18:03 iqualfragile no, but take a look at the commit: https://github.com/Zeg9/minetest/commit/d57f86a52236f5847a46c1d032733441061a5524 its not that big
18:03 hmmmm        "please merge this"
18:03 hmmmm        "i haven't tested it at all, but look at how small it is"
18:04 hmmmm        so basically you want pilzadam to stop what he's doing and go and test something that should've already been done and then merge it
18:04 iqualfragile yeah, or queue it somewhere on his todo
18:05 Zeg9         I tested it, and there is no reason why it shouldn't work. It doesn't need testing, just, verify the "coding style" is okay.
18:05 iqualfragile and i did not mean "oh, look its so small" but rather "its small enought for a human do understand compleetly"
18:05 hmmmm        it does need testing so that, in the event that it doesn't work, there's not a useless commit
18:07 iqualfragile im quite shure zeg9 would not have commited it if he had not tested it
18:08 hmmmm        oh, thought it was you
18:08 Zeg9         Wait, I didn't test if this was breaking run_in_place (but there is no reason it could do it). I'll try on my run_in_place version
18:10 Zeg9         Compiling...
18:12 Zeg9         Tested, it doesn't break run in place
19:06 emptty       Hello
19:06 emptty       could someone edit http://minetest.net/download.php to remove the mention that the version found in debian is outdated?
19:06 emptty       the provided link brings to 0.4.6 now
19:07 PilzAdam     done
19:07 emptty       thx
20:08 emptty       is there any mods that are considered stable enough to be separatly packaged?
20:09 PilzAdam     why do you want to package mods?
20:11 emptty       generally speaking, I personally never install stuff that are not packaged on my machine, but I'm new to minetest so I may well be off topic
20:12 emptty       PilzAdam: are mods intended to get slowly integrated in the game or something?
20:12 PilzAdam     users should install mods in ~/.minetest/mods/<gamename>/
20:13 PilzAdam     they are (little) additions to the default game(s)
20:13 PilzAdam     and they shouldnt be installed with a package manager or something
20:14 emptty       the point of integrating into the package manager is that they can be browsed and installed from the common place and the user don't have to track the version releases
20:14 PilzAdam     mods are unoffical and every can create mods
20:15 ShadowNinja  emptty: feel like keeping track of a hundred mods? ;-)
20:15 emptty       the package will be distributed in debian, not inducing any official support from the minetest team (I don't see the point)
20:15 emptty       ShadowNinja: nope, that's why I was asking which ones worth the packaging (little) effort :-P
20:16 ShadowNinja  Well then look at the popular mods page
20:18 ShadowNinja  But I agree with PilzAdam, mods are best left outside the package manager
20:18 emptty       are you using linux personally?
20:18 emptty       (curiosity)
20:19 ShadowNinja  emptty: yes
20:19 emptty       ok.
20:19 emptty       I may well be off topic....
20:20 Exio         i'd not use packages for mods, or even MT unless you have a nightly-build or similar :P
20:20 ShadowNinja  And the lisense is wrong, it is LGPLv2.1 or later
20:20 emptty       is it planned to have a support for in-game mods downloading?
20:20 ShadowNinja  There are a few managers, but mostly in beta
20:21 ShadowNinja  Not top priority right now
20:21 emptty       ok then forget it for now
20:21 emptty       I'll reconsider ;)
20:22 emptty       but sorry, got to go
20:27 celeron55    ummmmmmmmm
20:27 celeron55    what
20:27 celeron55    who says http://packages.debian.org/sid/minetest is updated at all?
20:28 celeron55    the title says 0.4.6 but everything else is 0.3.1
20:30 celeron55    i don't know what is going on but it definitely isn't up to date
20:31 ShadowNinja  The package is but a lot of other stuff is not, like the description and just about every related package
20:31 celeron55    so is it useful at all?
20:31 Exio         dep: minetest-data (= 0.4.6+repack-3) [alpha, sh4]
20:31 Exio         Package not available
20:32 celeron55    i see builds of 0.4 for only two obscure architectures
20:34 celeron55    i reverted the download page; it's very misleading to say it wouldn't be outdated
20:38 celeron55    the distro links are generally always very outdated... but it's pretty much always the case for everything unless the upstream of a project wants to support a certain distro by themselves
20:38 celeron55    (that's why stable releases are important so that an old version will suffice reasonably)
21:06 ShadowNinja  Any comments? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/671
21:06 PilzAdam     thats probably good
21:10 RealBadAngel http://i.imgur.com/Z7X7kTD.png
21:10 RealBadAngel how it looks now?
21:10 hmmmm        :D omg that looks awesome
21:11 hmmmm        except... people might need the divisions in between the blocks
21:11 hmmmm        is it possible for there to be a regular glass block and a merging one?
21:11 RealBadAngel sure
21:12 PilzAdam     RealBadAngel, I want to see the default textures
21:12 RealBadAngel this is default texture
21:12 RealBadAngel those are nodeboxes generated on the fly, not the regular node
21:13 PilzAdam     were are the diagonal pixels in the middle of the texture?
21:14 RealBadAngel but theres nothing in the middle anymore :)
21:14 RealBadAngel but i can add extra boxes on sides to display those
21:15 RealBadAngel btw i hate those things in glass textures, prefer clean glass
21:16 PilzAdam     they are definetly needed
21:16 ShadowNinja  RealBadAngel: I notice the textures don't line up quite right
21:17 RealBadAngel this is not finished yet, i just reached the point that i could make a sample screenshot
21:17 PilzAdam     RealBadAngel, I hope you dont plan to use nodeboxes for the version you want to merge?
21:18 RealBadAngel this is different drawtype
21:18 RealBadAngel so user dont have to define anyhing
21:18 PilzAdam     yes, but dont use "bones" or stuff like that
21:18 RealBadAngel same as fences etc
21:19 RealBadAngel connections are made realtime
21:20 ShadowNinja  RealBadAngel: neat!
21:22 RealBadAngel PilzAdam, "bones" ?
21:22 PilzAdam     <RealBadAngel> but i can add extra boxes
21:22 PilzAdam     s/bones/boxes
21:23 RealBadAngel frames are nodeboxes
21:23 RealBadAngel how other way could you make 3d frames?
21:24 PilzAdam     I would expect to use the exact same drawtype as now, but dont draw the 2 pixels at the side if there is another glass block
21:25 RealBadAngel following this, why dont use flat images to show fences?
21:26 PilzAdam     normal nodes also dont use 3D boxes for each side they draw
21:27 RealBadAngel this is not a normal node but glasslike node, with proper framing
21:27 RealBadAngel which you can see through glass
21:27 RealBadAngel old glasslike was a joke
21:28 PilzAdam     I dont agree on current glasslike being bad
21:28 PilzAdam     only thing to tweak there is connecting textures
21:28 RealBadAngel is it normal that you cannot see through glass?
21:29 RealBadAngel imho, not really
22:12 RealBadAngel fixed the model a bit, and tried with obsidian glass textures: http://i.imgur.com/eecdPyh.png
22:12 PilzAdam     Do you see the glitches?
22:16 RealBadAngel actually i dont ;) that was incorrect texture
22:17 RealBadAngel for those another texture is needed
22:34 ShadowNinja  RealBadAngel: I noticed ywo things, maybe they are caused by the texture, 1 the edges don't mees properly in some places (to the right of your cursor and up), 2 It doesn't look like a nodebox is added between those two glitched corners
22:35 ShadowNinja  *two, meet
22:36 PilzAdam     RealBadAngel, how do you gonna call the new drawtype?
22:36 RealBadAngel no idea yet
22:37 RealBadAngel i was thinkin bout maybe setting to enable/disable it
22:37 RealBadAngel so one can have old style glass or enable fancy one
22:38 PilzAdam     old == fancy
22:38 RealBadAngel if you call that fancy... ;)
22:38 RealBadAngel i would rather call it funny
22:38 PilzAdam     you said you need different texture for your drawtype? it wouldnt work then
22:39 hmmmm        mmmmmmmmmmm
22:39 hmmmm        it's fencelike
22:39 hmmmm        but it's also glasslike
22:39 PilzAdam     Im still not sure if its worth adding a new drawtyoe
22:39 RealBadAngel im not quite sure if new texture is really needed, need to play with it a bit more
22:40 hmmmm        can these drawtypes be combined? (never used them here)
22:41 RealBadAngel later on i would like to add fences with own drawtype
22:41 RealBadAngel so fencelike will definitely go for fences
22:41 hmmmm        oh, so how do fences currently get drawn?
22:41 PilzAdam     I think we should generally drop drawtypes into add more
22:41 PilzAdam     s/into/than
22:42 PilzAdam     s/than/instead
22:42 hmmmm        s/instead/instead of/
22:42 hmmmm        s/add/adding/
22:42 * PilzAdam   english fail
22:42 RealBadAngel ooops, not fences
22:42 ShadowNinja  lol, sed efficiency ;-)
22:42 hmmmm        whatever
22:43 hmmmm        sed was never efficient.
22:43 RealBadAngel i mean glass in sheets like in windows
22:43 PilzAdam     nodebox should cover fencelike and new glasslike
22:43 PilzAdam     and also panelike and whatever
22:43 hmmmm        wait hold up
22:43 hmmmm        nobody answered me before
22:43 hmmmm        1). how is this currently working,  2). how do fences work,  3). can drawtypes be combined
22:43 PilzAdam     hmmmm, basically a hardcoded nodebox, based on other surrounding fences
22:44 hmmmm        and this is hardcoded?
22:44 hmmmm        fences?  hardcoded?
22:44 PilzAdam     yes
22:44 hmmmm        hardcoded things!?
22:44 hmmmm        where is this
22:44 RealBadAngel this is nodebox that is generated on the fly
22:44 PilzAdam     it could be done with nodeboxes, would require multiple definitions of the same node with different nodebox, though
22:45 PilzAdam     *Lua nodeboxes
22:45 hmmmm        yes, it could be... but i'd rather avoid that
22:45 PilzAdam     hmmmm, Adam/minetest/commits/fencelike
22:45 PilzAdam     * https://github.com/PilzAdam/minetest/commits/fencelike
22:46 hmmmm        so fencelike is really its own nodetype
22:46 RealBadAngel if two fence nodes are next to each other they form connection by adding extra nodeboxes
22:46 hmmmm        and you can't combine drawtypes either
22:47 hmmmm        hrmm...
22:47 RealBadAngel no, each node can have just one drawtype
22:47 PilzAdam     no in the current state
22:47 hmmmm        this is annoying
22:47 RealBadAngel why?
22:47 hmmmm        because the whole point of colorlike was to reduce node definitions
22:47 RealBadAngel its logical imho
22:47 hmmmm        if you can't be colorlike and you can't be fencelike at the same time
22:48 RealBadAngel only solution to reduce nodedefs is allowing on the fly ability to change node
22:48 hmmmm        then people are going to still create 500 different types of fences, all the same thing with slightly different colors
22:48 PilzAdam     we just need meta nodedef
22:48 hmmmm        people really need to quit the shit with the colors
22:48 hmmmm        you want to use node metadata?
22:48 RealBadAngel store there nodeboxes definitions and tiles
22:48 PilzAdam     c55 already had a branch were nodedefinition can be overwritten
22:48 RealBadAngel just two tables
22:48 PilzAdam     and its saved in meta then
22:49 celeron55    this thread is a wonderful excercise in not getting pissed off: http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=85442
22:49 hmmmm        if i do this, i am _definitely_ not putting it in node metadata
22:49 hmmmm        metadata is slow
22:49 hmmmm        and then same thing with the fencelike/glasslike
22:49 hmmmm        this may be a good opportunity to make drawtypes not exclusive
22:49 hmmmm        we need to plan this carefully however
22:50 celeron55    according to this, hmmmm should go jump off a cliff
22:50 RealBadAngel notice that fencelike, railike and now my glasslike are not about reducing defs or whatever
22:50 RealBadAngel theyre to form connections realtime
22:50 hmmmm        well i'm glad the naysayers have their own fork
22:50 RealBadAngel and thats the point
22:50 hmmmm        they have their own little outlet where they can shit up minetest
22:50 celeron55    hmmmm: do they?
22:51 celeron55    i think they haven't yet gotten anything done
22:51 hmmmm        welp
22:51 celeron55    lots of nays but i'd be very interested in an actual fork
22:51 hmmmm        yes, i know, you want your fork of minetest with a reduced feature set more like 0.3.x
22:51 hmmmm        but that's not what these guys want
22:52 hmmmm        they want the opposite
22:52 celeron55    i didn't mean the fork i talked about a couple of times
22:52 celeron55    i mean exactly what these people would create
22:52 celeron55    it's becoming quite obvious they won't come here, so it's not a waste of effort if they attempt their own
22:53 hmmmm        they should probably put that effort they would have wasted into learning the language better or learning how to freaking program better, or learning how minetest works better
22:53 celeron55    there has been many MT forks in the past; all have went into oblivion quite rapidly
22:54 PilzAdam     celeron55, FYI, I play Minetest sometimes (2 times a week for some hours)
22:56 hmmmm        but anyway
22:56 hmmmm        i don't think any of us should be the ones to help them with their fork
22:56 hmmmm        they need to learn why the things we denied are bad on their own
22:58 hmmmm        i intend on playing minetest someday
22:58 hmmmm        when all of what i set out on getting done gets done
23:01 celeron55    there has been one quite respectable fork in the 0.3 days, but unfortunately i didn't have a place for it in upstream
23:01 celeron55    more specifically jachoo's fork of 0.3
23:02 celeron55    it actually existed for a focused reason
23:04 hmmmm        what was the reason?
23:05 celeron55    http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=258
23:06 celeron55    such functionality can be mostly added as a mod these days, but not at that time
23:10 Exio         did i miss hmmmm jumping off a cliff? :(
23:10 Exio         hmmmm: do it other time! :P
23:40 celeron55    seriously wtf does mauvebic think and why
23:40 celeron55    it's like he considers upstream developers his worst enemy
23:42 celeron55    mostly because of... umm... because developers attempt to develop something rather than use all their time to talk about nice things?
23:42 celeron55    FOSS politics is fucking great
23:44 celeron55    i'll try to avoid starting any FOSS projects anymore so that i can spare people from this kind of thing :P