Time  Nick               Message
09:31 celeron55          http://c55.me/blog/?p=1465#comment-21107
09:32 celeron55          what are these kinds of people thinking? like, i guess nothing at all
09:32 celeron55          (the last comment)
09:35 Calinou            lol
13:12 RealBadAngel       hi all
13:13 RealBadAngel       hmmmm, shall i pull the code for main menu music (without the tune, just the code) ?
13:14 PilzAdam           where is the code?
13:16 RealBadAngel       i can pull it if we agree that folder for sounds of all kinds will be /sounds
13:17 RealBadAngel       old test code used /testsounds folder
13:17 PilzAdam           I would prefer client/sounds/
13:17 RealBadAngel       /clinent/sounds in the main tree?
13:18 PilzAdam           hm
13:18 RealBadAngel       imho not necesary and not consistent
13:18 RealBadAngel       we do already have /textures
13:18 PilzAdam           well, maybe client/sounds isnt good
13:19 RealBadAngel       so /sounds sounds logic ;)
13:20 RealBadAngel       so agree to use /sounds ?
13:21 PilzAdam           we should move all the folders in client/ into the root of directory of client
13:21 PilzAdam           *minetest
13:21 sfan5              oh no
13:21 sfan5              that'll create a folder mess
13:22 Exio               ? what
13:22 Exio               i'd prefer client/sounds and client/textures instead
13:22 PilzAdam           c55 and kahrl had the intention to not split everything into server/ and client/
13:23 RealBadAngel       we do already have /textures folder
13:23 RealBadAngel       /sounds shall be on the same level imho
13:25 RealBadAngel       PilzAdam, code is here: https://github.com/RealBadAngel/minetest/commit/ae60aa55f1421966f4a0b03ca2b5e0ca262091aa
13:26 PilzAdam           why do you change the camera angle there?
13:28 PilzAdam           and you just copy the GameOnDemandSoundFetcher from game.cpp?
13:41 RealBadAngel       a) this is unrelated change,its made to fit certain backround image
13:41 RealBadAngel       b) yes, i need to move the code to sound.h propably
13:41 RealBadAngel       and modify both game.cpp and main.cpp
13:44 RealBadAngel       acording to a). download whole tree, compile and see the menu
13:46 Exio               RealBadAngel: learn to use branches
13:46 Exio               please
13:46 RealBadAngel       im using branches for technic
13:46 RealBadAngel       branches handling sucks big time
13:47 RealBadAngel       sorry, but no
13:50 RealBadAngel       all those problems with squashing, rebasing, cherry picking (wtf?) and all related
13:51 RealBadAngel       github is shit
13:51 RealBadAngel       simple diff is way better and more usable
13:51 Exio               github is just a "git" interface
13:51 Exio               and i suck at git, but it is very useful
13:52 RealBadAngel       as uploading space, yes
13:52 RealBadAngel       then suck while downloading
13:52 RealBadAngel       sorry git, im not your fan at all
13:52 Exio               switch to svn
13:55 RealBadAngel       dont you guys have enough with renaming downloaded folder again and again?
13:56 RealBadAngel       github fails at even such simple thing
13:56 Exio               ?
13:57 PilzAdam           RealBadAngel, normally you clone and pull
13:57 RealBadAngel       adding extra content to folders name
13:57 PilzAdam           github is only a git repo hosting service
13:57 Exio               the basic usage what i do to it, git makes the stuff way easier
13:58 RealBadAngel       git makes stuff way more complicated as it should be
13:58 Exio               you don't need to rename dirs, you can have git log, git status, branches, etc
13:58 Exio               RealBadAngel: i'd say it makes the stuff simpler
13:58 RealBadAngel       exio, try to download any mod
13:58 Exio               ? and
13:58 Exio               did, with git and stuff
13:58 RealBadAngel       and see forums, the mod is not working
13:58 Exio               git clone
13:59 Exio               i don't understand your problem, really
13:59 RealBadAngel       git feels like it have to add -master to folders name
13:59 Exio               in any case, can we move this to #mt?
13:59 RealBadAngel       or some other random shit
13:59 PilzAdam           RealBadAngel, that is not git
13:59 PilzAdam           thats github
13:59 Exio               that is the github download service what is not related to git
13:59 Exio               and how you download a git repo is..
13:59 PilzAdam           this shows me that you dont understand git
14:00 Exio               git clone http://whatever.server/repository
14:00 Exio               or https, or git, or w/e
14:00 RealBadAngel       yup, super user friendly, especially for newbie players
14:00 RealBadAngel       teach them git
14:01 RealBadAngel       are you nuts/
14:01 Exio               are you a newbie player?
14:01 Exio               ok
14:01 Exio               git is not for normal-players, is for developing
14:01 RealBadAngel       this is hardcore system, not even close to user friendly
14:01 PilzAdam           RealBadAngel, just because you dont understand it doesnt mean git is shit
14:01 RealBadAngel       I DO UNDERSTAND IT
14:01 RealBadAngel       and DONT LIKE IT
14:01 RealBadAngel       thats a difference
14:02 PilzAdam           then why do you say that git adds -master to downloads?
14:02 RealBadAngel       github pages download
14:02 RealBadAngel       i shall say
14:03 Exio               any real comment about git now?
14:03 Exio               it makes the life easier for the people who wants to develop
14:03 RealBadAngel       im developin and git makes my life complicated
14:04 Exio               ok
14:04 RealBadAngel       i want to post diff file
14:04 RealBadAngel       thats all
14:04 Exio               git push
14:04 RealBadAngel       AND DONT USE cli
14:05 RealBadAngel       its 21st century for christ sake
14:06 RealBadAngel       i just want to compare two folders, clean and modified, produce diff, pull, forget
14:06 Ristovski          anyone know why I'm getting this at linking? "In function `irr::video::CImageLoaderPng::loadImage(irr::io::IReadFile*) const': (.text+0x1c0): undefined reference to `png_set_gray_1_2_4_to_8'"
14:06 Exio               git diff
14:06 Ristovski          I have the dev packages
14:07 Ristovski          debian wheezy x64 btw, if there is anyone actually using linux here...
14:08 RealBadAngel       Ristovski, looks like some problem with Irrlicht libraries
14:08 Ristovski          RealBadAngel: yeah, i have both the normal and dev irrlicht packages tho
14:08 PilzAdam           Ristovski, everyone here uses Linux
14:08 Ristovski          PilzAdam: oh, nice
14:08 PilzAdam           Ristovski, wich version of Irrlicht
14:09 Ristovski          lemme check
14:09 Ristovski          1.7 seems like
14:09 RealBadAngel       try 1.7.3 or 1.8
14:09 PilzAdam           1.8 is slower than 1.7.3
14:10 RealBadAngel       i havent noticed that
14:10 Ristovski          is the git version fine?
14:10 Ristovski          I mean, svn/git/hg w/e they use
14:10 RealBadAngel       i havent tested it
14:10 RealBadAngel       using 1.8 here
14:11 RealBadAngel       and 1.7.3 before
14:11 PilzAdam           Ristovski, it should work with the Irrlicht version in the debian packages
14:11 Ristovski          PilzAdam: well, it doesnt, im now uninstalling those and gonna compile irrlicht from source
14:12 RealBadAngel       whats your distro?
14:12 RealBadAngel       ah
14:12 RealBadAngel       nvm
14:12 Ristovski          :P
14:12 Ristovski          btw, I hope it doesnt matter what DE I use
14:12 Ristovski          i had some problems with other games where it did
14:13 iqualfragile       btw: minetest actualy runs qute well on nouveau
14:13 Exio               works for me in debian6
14:13 Ristovski          hmm, probably gonna get high FPS since I use AwesomeWM
14:14 Ristovski          RealBadAngel: hmm, how big is the source of irrlicht?
14:15 Ristovski          gettin ~100kb/s, damn ISP
14:15 PilzAdam           RealBadAngel, your problem with git is probably that you dont want to use CLI
14:15 PilzAdam           wich is a typical windows users behaviour
14:15 RealBadAngel       22.6mb for 1.8
14:15 Ristovski          ok
14:16 Ristovski          RealBadAngel: whats the average FPS people get?
14:16 PilzAdam           Ristovski, depends on the hardware
14:16 RealBadAngel       PilzAdam, typical widnows user behaviour... lol, i dont even have windows installed :P
14:16 Ristovski          PilzAdam: hmm, I mean, I can run other games at around 60
14:17 PilzAdam           60 FPS is not hard to get
14:17 PilzAdam           I get ~ 250
14:17 RealBadAngel       on my hardware (quite old and slowed down) i do get 40-50fps with 128x texture pack and shitload of mods
14:18 RealBadAngel       dual core 1,8ghz with 4gb of ram
14:18 RealBadAngel       and some budget radeon
14:18 Ristovski          RealBadAngel: Oh, seems like we have the same hardware
14:18 Ristovski          i just have 2.1GhZ
14:19 RealBadAngel       this was 2.1
14:19 Ristovski          oh
14:19 RealBadAngel       i slowed the machine down, added water cooling
14:19 Exio               dual core?
14:19 Ristovski          also, lol @ mojang adding horses
14:19 RealBadAngel       and its working 24/7
14:19 Exio               intel, amd, what the heck?
14:19 Ristovski          mine is dual core too btw
14:19 RealBadAngel       i never turn off my box
14:19 Ristovski          also, amd Athlon x64 Dual Core M320 @ 2.10GhZ
14:20 RealBadAngel       mine is intel
14:20 Ristovski          amd's are good for making toasters and ovens
14:20 RealBadAngel       hehe
14:20 Ristovski          you get ~80C with < 10V :D
14:21 RealBadAngel       notice i underclocked it, not overclocked
14:21 Exio               my cpu is at 30C like
14:21 Ristovski          yeah
14:21 Exio               bulldozer 6100
14:21 RealBadAngel       it helps for stability, power usage and lifetime
14:21 Ristovski          my CPU is at 72C now, highest I got it to was 85C
14:21 Exio               laptop?
14:21 RealBadAngel       mine is on average 30def
14:21 RealBadAngel       deg
14:21 PilzAdam           ok, thats enough offtopic for now
14:21 Ristovski          yeah, laptop
14:23 Ristovski          is lua used for config?
14:23 RealBadAngel       no
14:23 Ristovski          then what for
14:23 Ristovski          scripting?
14:23 RealBadAngel       for mods
14:23 Ristovski          oh, ok
14:23 RealBadAngel       ingame scripting
14:24 Ristovski          well.. better than python
14:24 RealBadAngel       lately we got there LuaJIT
14:25 RealBadAngel       you may want to install this library too when you will compile the game
14:25 PilzAdam           Ristovski, Lua mods basically define the content of the game
14:26 Ristovski          oh, ok
14:26 RealBadAngel       it makes all mods run at least 2x faster
14:26 PilzAdam           i.e. nodes, tools, textures and behaviour of them
14:26 Ristovski          RealBadAngel: i think I already have that
14:26 Ristovski          actually.. not in repos
14:27 RealBadAngel       when you will compile, output will say if its found or not
14:27 RealBadAngel       hold on then
14:27 PilzAdam           RealBadAngel, nope, not when you are compiling but when you run cmake
14:27 RealBadAngel       http://luajit.org/download/LuaJIT-2.0.1.tar.gz
14:27 Ristovski          lol, Irrlicht still downloading
14:27 RealBadAngel       unpack, enter /src then make, make install
14:28 Ristovski          no need, I did it make in root dir and it works
14:28 Ristovski          did make*
14:28 RealBadAngel       not opening the door but using key to open the door...
14:29 RealBadAngel       do you have to be such sarcastic?
14:29 Ristovski          lol
14:29 Ristovski          also, whoops
14:30 Ristovski          RealBadAngel: the svn of irrlicht downloaded like all branches/releases
14:30 RealBadAngel       rotfl
14:30 RealBadAngel       lemme copy the link then
14:30 RealBadAngel       http://downloads.sourceforge.net/irrlicht/irrlicht-1.8.zip
14:31 Ristovski          hmm, thanks
14:31 RealBadAngel       this is definitely just 22,6mb and dev with sources
14:31 Ristovski          I knew it was taking too long for just 20mb
14:32 Ristovski          RealBadAngel: hmm, wheres the makefile
14:33 Ristovski          got it
14:33 RealBadAngel       /source/irrlicht
14:35 Ristovski          why does it say to NODEBUG=1 when it actually adds -D_DEBUG
14:36 RealBadAngel       that i dont know
14:36 RealBadAngel       hmmmm, are you around?
14:39 Ristovski          RealBadAngel: it errors out on "make install"
14:39 Ristovski          "cp: cannot stat `../../lib/Linux/libIrrlicht.so.1.8.0': No such file or directory"
14:40 RealBadAngel       lib shall land in /us/local/lib
14:41 RealBadAngel       *usr
14:41 Ristovski          done
14:43 RealBadAngel       navigate there and check if you have there libirrlicht.so.1.8.0 and libirrlicht.a
14:43 RealBadAngel       with capital I for Irrlicht
14:46 Ristovski          libirlicht.a is there
14:46 Ristovski          linirrlicht.so isnt D:
14:46 Ristovski          uhh, lib*
14:46 RealBadAngel       .a is enough
14:46 RealBadAngel       game will use it
14:46 Ristovski          ok
14:47 RealBadAngel       so try to compile the game now
14:48 Ristovski          arrghh
14:48 Ristovski          "No rule to make target `/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libIrrlicht.a', needed by `bin/minetest'.  Stop."
14:49 Ristovski          hmm, what now
14:49 Ristovski          lemme re-run cmake .
14:54 PilzAdam           remove CMakeCache.txt and re-run cmake
14:55 RealBadAngel       PilzAdam, so what about the folder?
14:56 PilzAdam           the sound folder?
14:57 RealBadAngel       yup
14:58 PilzAdam           didnt I already said that it should go into the root directory of minetest?
14:58 RealBadAngel       named "sounds"
14:58 RealBadAngel       yes?
14:58 PilzAdam           and both, $path_share and $path_usr
14:59 PilzAdam           and change path_user first, so things in ~/.minetest/sounds/ can override globally installed sounds
14:59 PilzAdam           *check
14:59 RealBadAngel       that was supposed to work different way
14:59 RealBadAngel       one /sounds folder
14:59 RealBadAngel       that mods can override
15:00 RealBadAngel       not different installs
15:00 PilzAdam           were do you want to put that one sound folder? $path_share or $path_user
15:00 RealBadAngel       so, if mod will redefine sound file it will be used instead of client side stored one
15:00 RealBadAngel       and thus will be sent by server
15:01 RealBadAngel       same place as /textures
15:01 Ristovski          RealBadAngel: pm
15:05 RealBadAngel       PilzAdam, idea was to put there all defaults sounds
15:05 RealBadAngel       so server wont have to send them to client
15:05 PilzAdam           can you just answer my question?
15:05 RealBadAngel       but a mod can decide to override it and use different sound
15:06 RealBadAngel       std::string base = porting::path_share + DIR_DELIM + "sounds";
15:06 RealBadAngel       here
15:06 PilzAdam           so, for your menu sound it would be in /usr/share/minetest/sounds
15:07 PilzAdam           users cant override the default menu sound then
15:07 RealBadAngel       ehhh
15:07 RealBadAngel       if mod defines the sound
15:07 RealBadAngel       it is first searched in mods directory
15:07 RealBadAngel       if found then used
15:08 RealBadAngel       last instance is that dir
15:08 RealBadAngel       dont you get it?
15:08 PilzAdam           but your code doesnt do that
15:09 RealBadAngel       ofc it fuckin does it
15:09 RealBadAngel       searching /sounds is the last instance in lookin for sound file
15:10 RealBadAngel       if mod defined the use of sound file it is searched in mods files first
15:10 RealBadAngel       if not found then in /sounds
15:11 RealBadAngel       so, point is default mods define usage of sounds stored already in /sounds
15:11 RealBadAngel       and those will be default ones
15:11 PilzAdam           it search main_menu.ogg only in $path_share/sounds
15:11 RealBadAngel       if mod will supply own sound it will be used in the first place
15:11 PilzAdam           it doesnt even know about mods when searching main_menu.ogg
15:12 PilzAdam           I just tested it
15:12 PilzAdam           $path_share/sounds/main_menu.ogg is the only place were it looks for the main menu sound
15:12 RealBadAngel       ofc
15:13 RealBadAngel       because its the only place it can be stored
15:13 RealBadAngel       now take any sound of default mods
15:13 PilzAdam           it would be better to check both, $path_user/sounds and $path_share/sounds, so users can have custome client stored sounds
15:13 RealBadAngel       and move them to this folder
15:14 RealBadAngel       like walkin sounds, breaking glass etc
15:14 RealBadAngel       they will become local
15:14 RealBadAngel       not being sent by server
15:15 RealBadAngel       and code will find them
15:17 PilzAdam           yes, but users should be able to save sounds in the client like that without messing arround in $path_share
15:18 RealBadAngel       what messing?
15:18 RealBadAngel       /sounds/ then store files there
15:19 PilzAdam           in a globally installed minetest $path_share is at /usr/share/minetest/ and you need to be root to modify it
15:19 RealBadAngel       you are messing with paths now
15:19 RealBadAngel       and you havent understood it at all
15:19 PilzAdam           what you think works for run_in_place only
15:20 RealBadAngel       default sounds will come with game
15:20 RealBadAngel       already stored there
15:20 RealBadAngel       in this exact folder
15:20 PilzAdam           that stupid
15:20 PilzAdam           you want to ship all ambient soundtracks with minetest?
15:20 RealBadAngel       so every client will have local sounds
15:21 PilzAdam           and all other music that every mod uses?
15:21 RealBadAngel       but if a mod will override it
15:21 RealBadAngel       it will be sent to client
15:21 RealBadAngel       and handled old way
15:21 RealBadAngel       this way we reduce bandwith needed
15:22 PilzAdam           it would be better to tell users to put sounds in ~/.minetest/sounds/ of the dont want to download them all the time
15:22 RealBadAngel       because all default sounds will be already on the client side
15:22 PilzAdam           shipping minetest with all these sounds is ridiculous
15:22 RealBadAngel       you already do so
15:22 PilzAdam           I mean sounds of 3rd party mods
15:22 RealBadAngel       and call it stupid?
15:23 RealBadAngel       you are forcing sending all the sounds each time
15:23 PilzAdam           I think you simply dont want to understand what I want to tell you
15:24 RealBadAngel       i do, you are thinkin old way, and want them to be lua sent
15:24 RealBadAngel       like they are now
15:24 PilzAdam           nope
15:24 RealBadAngel       so server have to send them
15:24 PilzAdam           I want users to put them into a folder so that they are not send
15:24 PilzAdam           but I dont want to preinstall the sounds with the engine
15:25 PilzAdam           because the engine doesnt know wich games/mods the users will use
15:25 RealBadAngel       preinstall it with game mod then
15:25 PilzAdam           so you want to force users to be root to intsall games in Minetest?
15:26 RealBadAngel       ok, i can agree to move them to users folder
15:26 RealBadAngel       got your point
15:26 Ristovski          RealBadAngel: hmm, I get "PNG warning: Interlace handling should be turned on when using png_read_image" and it freezes when joining the sandbox server
15:27 PilzAdam           Ristovski, I guess the dev channel is the wrong channel for that
15:27 PilzAdam           RealBadAngel, use $path_user first, then $path_share and then download it from server
15:28 RealBadAngel       in reverse order...
15:29 RealBadAngel       if server supplies it then use it
15:29 RealBadAngel       this is not textures system
15:29 RealBadAngel       local are supposed to be primary
15:30 RealBadAngel       so you check for overrides first
15:30 RealBadAngel       not the last
15:31 PilzAdam           it should be only downloaded from server if the version on the server differs from the locally stored
15:31 RealBadAngel       in fact im not sure how it should be handled
15:32 RealBadAngel       my vote is to ship some very basic and default sounds together with the engine
15:32 RealBadAngel       and move commons to builtin
15:34 PilzAdam           1) check if the sound is locally present (path_user first, path_share if the sounds are not in path_user); 2) check if the server offers the same files, if not use the local file; break; 3) check if the local file and the file on the server differ; if yes: download from server; if no: use local file
15:34 PilzAdam           no, thats wrong
15:35 PilzAdam           1) get filename from server; 2) check if its locally; 3) check if the server file and local file differ; download from server if yes; use local file else
15:35 PilzAdam           this could also work for textures
15:35 PilzAdam           and it would save a lot of time for many people
15:38 jojoa1997_Tablet   is it possible for minetest to colorize blocks.(one file texture and multiple nodes that hve different colors)
15:38 Calinou            no
15:38 Exio               did you read the TODO list
15:38 jojoa1997_Tablet   there is a TODO list?!?!
15:38 Calinou            http://dev.minetest.net/TODO <= inb4 "TODO"
15:38 Calinou            well, inafter "TODO"
15:40 PilzAdam           thats hmmmm's TODO list
15:40 PilzAdam           hmmmm, you should move it to your userspace in the wiki
15:40 jojoa1997_Tablet   PilzAdam do you have a todo list?
15:40 jojoa1997_Tablet   is there an official one?
15:41 PilzAdam           yes, I have a TODO list
15:41 jojoa1997_Tablet   where is it
15:41 PilzAdam           in my head
15:41 Jordach            ehm
15:41 Jordach            http://dev.minetest.net/Mapgen_V7
15:41 * jojoa1997_Tablet connects a mind reading machine to PilzAdam's head
15:42 Jordach            Mapgen V7 is fully described here
15:42 Jordach            well that's any help
15:42 Jordach            its just a picture. :)
15:42 jojoa1997_Tablet   yes very described
16:03 RealBadAngel       PilzAdam, way easier: 1) check if file is sent by server, if so use it. 2) if no use local one 3) file is missing ;)
16:04 RealBadAngel       more, adaptin all current default mods to use it will be just copy them to client
16:05 RealBadAngel       all is about cache
16:05 RealBadAngel       if file is in cache it means it was sent by the server
16:06 PilzAdam           this wouldnt help much in first login
16:06 PilzAdam           you are still downloading everything
16:06 RealBadAngel       you still are missing the point
16:06 PilzAdam           the goal is to not download things that are locally present
16:06 PilzAdam           what you suggest is same as textures/all
16:07 RealBadAngel       move that damn common things to game
16:07 RealBadAngel       so each and every client will have them by definition
16:07 PilzAdam           you would simply break backwards compatibility by not having the textures on the server
16:08 RealBadAngel       it wont break anything
16:08 RealBadAngel       for christ sake
16:08 RealBadAngel       turn logic on
16:08 PilzAdam           you would rely on the fact that every client has all the texture in it
16:08 PilzAdam           so old clients cant connect to new servers
16:09 PilzAdam           it isnt like you move sounds to the engine and magically every client on the world has them
16:09 RealBadAngel       first of all worst case just textures will be missing
16:09 RealBadAngel       so old crap user will have to update the game
16:09 RealBadAngel       nothing special
16:09 PilzAdam           see? you break compatibility
16:10 RealBadAngel       see? we are DEVELOPING the game
16:10 RealBadAngel       not maintainin national museum of minetest :P
16:11 Exio               g
16:12 Jordach            now that;s a nice signiture right there
16:12 RealBadAngel       ofc new versions of the game will be incopatible with older ones
16:12 RealBadAngel       we do that every few weeks
16:13 RealBadAngel       for minor changes even
16:13 PilzAdam           ehm
16:14 PilzAdam           you can connect with a 0.4.4 client to a 0.4.6 server IIRC
16:14 RealBadAngel       so what
16:14 RealBadAngel       many things wont work
16:14 PilzAdam           only the new features wont work then
16:14 RealBadAngel       is that a succes or cheating yourself?
16:15 PilzAdam           but what you suggest is break one of the most important parts of the game
16:15 RealBadAngel       yeah?
16:15 RealBadAngel       try to use 6d facedir with old client with enabled atlas
16:15 RealBadAngel       good luck
16:16 PilzAdam           you are comparing new features with basic things like textures
16:16 PilzAdam           your point is not valid
16:16 RealBadAngel       treat is as new feature
16:16 RealBadAngel       "decrease bandwith needed to connect"
16:17 RealBadAngel       voila
16:17 PilzAdam           so we call texutres a new feature introduced in 0.4.7?
16:17 PilzAdam           turn logic on
16:17 RealBadAngel       client side stored media files
16:18 RealBadAngel       first step to move there default sounds
16:20 RealBadAngel       but still, lets wait for others, what they may have to say bout the idea, ok?
16:21 RealBadAngel       2 voices are not enough to vote, especially when theyre quite opposite ;)
16:29 RealBadAngel       PilzAdam, btw... http://i.imgur.com/OapBLIO.jpg
18:24 VanessaE           regarding the sounds/textures debate:  We need a whole new way of checking for these things.  If the client has a texture or sound, that should absolutely be used regardless of what the server wants to send.  The server should send whatever the client doesn't have, BUT the client should always be shipped with sounds+textures/.
18:24 VanessaE           best of both sides of the argument.
18:27 VanessaE           the client should always look in the directory the server might normally have if the server were installed on the same machine as the client, that way duplicate images are neither needed nor created in most users' installs.
18:28 VanessaE           the client and server should both have a pre-cached set of very basic image hashes, something that gives us less than 0.001% chance of a false match.
18:28 VanessaE           so that client and server can do very fast comparisons at connect time.
18:29 VanessaE           ditto for sounds of course.
18:29 celeron55          <+PilzAdam> c55 and kahrl had the intention to not split everything into server/ and client/
18:30 celeron55          yes, please continue that tradition where possible
18:31 celeron55          both of what are under client/ can be dropped out from there
18:33 celeron55          (they're there mostly because of laziness of modifying patches)
20:01 hmmmm              oh god
20:01 hmmmm              who wanted to separate client and server
20:01 hmmmm              [11:40 AM] <PilzAdam> thats hmmmm's TODO list
20:01 hmmmm              it's not though
20:02 hmmmm              i shouldn't move it to my "userspace"
20:02 hmmmm              those are just pressing issues that i personally have to do, and nobody added anything
20:03 PilzAdam           why are you removing stuff like "weather" from it then?
20:04 hmmmm              [10:36 AM] <RealBadAngel> hmmmm, are you around?
20:04 hmmmm              yes i am around
20:04 hmmmm              because it was poorly written
20:04 hmmmm              and besides, weather is already possible with mods
20:05 PilzAdam           ehm
20:05 hmmmm              i know of a rain mod
20:05 PilzAdam           yes, but it isnt good
20:05 PilzAdam           rain was possible since entities were added
20:05 PilzAdam           but it is 1) too laggy (even with particles) and 2) blocks dont block rain
20:05 hmmmm              so if someone can actually write what needs to be done (intelligently) in order for "good" weather to happen, then sure add it
20:06 PilzAdam           if you stay under a node you still get wet
20:06 hmmmm              and by "what needs to be done" i mean the technical aspects behind it
20:07 proller            i want to make complete weather system, but have no time now
20:08 hmmmm              so why is it that people don't seem to care about making things neat
20:08 hmmmm              not just code, but even wiki pages
20:08 hmmmm              they haphazardly add in things missing newlines, wrong header, etc.
20:09 hmmmm              and the actual content they add is practically useless
20:09 hmmmm              i don't want the TODO page to become a wishlist
20:09 hmmmm              it's there for devs
20:10 proller            it was my TODO
20:11 hmmmm              oh
20:11 hmmmm              well, please be neater about it
20:12 proller            ok
23:25 Pentium44          darkrose, you here?
23:32 savedgames         I got a serious thing in 0.4.6 like a bug. Everything becomes grey after a certain period. Have many already reported this?
23:33 savedgames         and every time afterwards I load the game it starts in the grey area. Regardless of where I hit with my pickaxe when I'm in the grey no sound is heard, so I'm not hitting anything.
23:34 VanessaE           this would normally mean you've got a server process that's stuck.
23:34 VanessaE           (minetest is really a client and a server together)
23:34 VanessaE           check that you don't have other, hung minetest instances running (look at your task manager or process list)
23:35 VanessaE           Do you have any mods loaded?
23:35 VanessaE           (also, this really belongs over on #minetest )
23:35 ShadowNinja        looks more like a graphics issue to me
23:46 savedgames         you are right. I got an extra minetest running.
23:47 savedgames         ops...no. The world spawns as grey the moment I enter it.
23:47 savedgames         So the last world that got infected by the "grey disease bug" I stopped using and created a new world which is healthy.
23:48 savedgames         Though its sad, cause I put work in this world and I don't wanna start from the beginning. About reproducing this bug? Sorry I'm outta luck. In both cases it just happened without explanation...
23:49 VanessaE           savedgames: you may have to just wait it out
23:49 VanessaE           try the "broken" world again but give it a minute to try to load
23:49 VanessaE           sometimes on my server, it takes several seconds before the world starts loading, when I connect.
23:50 savedgames         Maybe I should just make a little screencast showing what happens...me just describing with words probably doesn't help. What do you think?
23:50 VanessaE           no need, we know what it is :)
23:50 VanessaE           a grey screen - the world didn't load.
23:50 VanessaE           =[
23:50 VanessaE           gah, can't type.
23:50 savedgames         ok . then. I will wait...
23:50 VanessaE           a grey screen = the world didn't load.
23:51 savedgames         Yes, but it just became grey while I was playing. Does that happen also?
23:51 savedgames         that I have to wait ingame for it to do its 'stuff'?
23:52 savedgames         I also got the feeling that it uses way more cpu in this grey disease mode
23:53 savedgames         but it's nothing I can confirm. I really think you don't have what I have so what you think about I posting a screencast?
23:53 savedgames         I think it's enough showing you a comparison of a newly created world and my two other worlds struck by the calamity
23:54 savedgames         still grey
23:54 VanessaE           by now it should have loaded.  Any errors in your console?
23:54 savedgames         fps 0?
23:55 savedgames         ops, didn't notice. That's weird, ain't it?
23:55 VanessaE           (the terminal/command line that some installs will show)
23:55 savedgames         I must start minetest in console mode then, I can start it in a terminal, is that what I should have done?
23:55 VanessaE           it IS normal for the screen/sky to turn grey at times, particularly if you're looking out over terrain that didn't load.
23:56 VanessaE           yes, you need to start it from a command line so we can see if there are any errors being thrown
23:56 savedgames         Everything IS grey
23:56 savedgames         FPS=0
23:56 savedgames         ok, starting soon
23:56 Exio               savedgames: what are your coords?
23:57 VanessaE           Oh I forgot to ask that
23:57 savedgames         How do I find out?
23:57 VanessaE           savedgames: press F5 and tell us what your coordinates are.
23:57 savedgames         I pressed F5
23:58 savedgames         -214748
23:58 VanessaE           OOPS!
23:58 Exio               got it
23:58 VanessaE           that's why
23:58 VanessaE           /teleport 0,0,0
23:58 VanessaE           do that.
23:58 savedgames         how do I do that?
23:58 VanessaE           he got bit by the insane coordinates bug :D
23:58 VanessaE           just start typing.
23:58 VanessaE           the / will open a command line into the progra,/.
23:58 VanessaE           program*
23:58 Exio               in the console, but do that a second after you "start" the game
23:59 VanessaE           Exio: he doesn't have to time it.  he can just teleport and then restart the game.
23:59 Exio               VanessaE: ehm
23:59 Exio               it didn't work for me in that way
23:59 savedgames         Server says teleporting to 0,0,0