Time Nick Message 00:41 VanessaE before 0.4.6 goes out, that acceleration/speed bug (huge memory usage -> crash on realyl big values) needs fixed. 00:43 Exio how can i "cause" that bug? 00:43 Exio i want to reproduce it locally 00:43 VanessaE try using jeija's jumping mod (trampolines) 00:44 VanessaE the right placement of trampolines will cause you go off into orbit (Y+200K or so) 00:44 VanessaE when you jump on them or run into them hard 00:44 VanessaE particularly on the highest setting 00:45 Exio mis pressed multiplayer tab 00:46 Exio with this lag => mt stuck 00:47 VanessaE it's a bug in that mod that it should cause those high accel values, but it's a bug in the engine that it should use 4-6GB of memory and crash because of it :) 00:52 Exio are all trampolines the same in terms of acceleration? 00:53 VanessaE dunno. 00:53 VanessaE a tramp has like 6 settings, from little more than a pillow to like 50% faster going up than you hit it going down 00:54 VanessaE with one tramp at the highest setting, you'll begin taking damage after three or four bounces 00:54 VanessaE here's a trick guaranteed to crash your client: 00:54 Exio what color is the "best"? 00:55 Exio the red? 00:55 VanessaE place a tramp on the ground. set it to max. Place four dirt blocks in a column next to it. Place another tramp against the column so that it's 3 blocks above the first. set them both to max (yes, red). Now jump onto the lower one. 00:58 Exio hm... 00:58 Exio should i kill it now or it will do a bad::alloc before it eats my 4gb ram + 16swap? 00:59 VanessaE the client? 00:59 VanessaE which bug did you trigger? the client crash or the server hogging RAM+CPU? 00:59 Exio the client got stucked when doing that 00:59 VanessaE oh that, just kill it. 01:00 VanessaE I've never bothered to wait that one out. 01:00 Exio but but, wait 01:00 VanessaE but you can see that there's an issue. :) 01:00 Exio 3 bugs for one thing? 01:00 Exio "client crash, client stuck, server eating your ram/cpu" 01:01 VanessaE client crash = client stuck 01:01 Exio ah 01:01 VanessaE the server eating RAM/CPU is a different but related issue 01:01 VanessaE now, lemme see if I remember this right 01:01 Exio how was for enabling the "debug" release? 01:01 VanessaE hey Taoki. 01:01 VanessaE next test "should" cause the server to go insane: 01:02 VanessaE make a flat region at least 6x6 nodes. 01:03 VanessaE Place 12 trampolines on the ground, side-by-side in a square. That is, four to a side, thus with a 2x2 hole in the middle. 01:03 VanessaE set them all to max. 01:03 VanessaE fly up and over and drop into the middle. 01:03 VanessaE turn off flying. 01:03 VanessaE turn fast on. 01:03 VanessaE move to one corner. 01:04 VanessaE hold your 'fast' key ("E" for me) and run around in the 2x2 open space 01:04 VanessaE you should shortly get catapulted out into nowhere, perhaps into the -200k/+200k range in one of your coordinates. 01:05 Exio how was for enabling the debug stuff? 01:05 Exio i'll try to see what the hell happens 01:05 VanessaE oh, for debug? cmake . -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=Debug 01:06 VanessaE (plus the RUN_IN_PLACE and whatever else you usually use) 01:06 Exio grazie :P 01:07 VanessaE np 01:11 Exio i see 01:11 Exio Program received signal SIGTSTP, Stopped (user). 01:11 Exio 0x00007ffff4807c50 in *__GI___libc_malloc (bytes=24) at malloc.c:3658 01:11 Exio ctrl-z and stuck at malloc, perfect :P 01:12 VanessaE ah, so it happens to the client too? 01:12 Exio i'm searching for the client stuck 01:12 VanessaE oh ok 01:24 Exio haha 01:24 Exio when looking at the debug.txt 01:24 Exio 22:11:04: INFO[main]: collisionMoveSimple: WARNING: Loop count exceeded, aborting to avoid infiniite loop 01:24 Exio 22:11:04: INFO[main]: Pointing at [nothing] 01:33 hmmmm http://ompldr.org/vaHluNQ 01:35 kaeza wat 01:35 VanessaE hmmmm: looks like the stuff we used to see in 0.3.x 01:35 kaeza old 0.3.x mountains? 01:35 VanessaE albeit a little "sharper" 01:36 Exio am i the only who still is loading the image? 01:37 kaeza also... is that thing gravel? 01:39 Exio $1 = 01:39 Exio fuck 01:40 VanessaE Exio: make clean ; CXXFLAGS=-O0 make -j4 01:41 VanessaE (that's "dash oh zero" of course) 01:41 Exio i know, but i want a proper fix 01:41 VanessaE I mean that'll disable the optimization so you can see what was optimized out :) 01:41 Exio ("proper" == edit the CMakelists 01:41 Exio ) 01:41 VanessaE oh. 01:41 VanessaE heh 01:42 Exio ok, compiled 01:46 hmmmm this is no 0.3.x, boy! 01:47 Exio this is v7! 01:47 hmmmm too bad nobody'll get the reference :/ 01:47 Exio well 01:47 Exio what reference? ^^ 01:47 hmmmm nvm 01:49 hmmmm anyway, the dirt is from 3d noise, the stone is from 2d 01:49 hmmmm i tried the idea i had about how to make ridges from 2d noise but it didn't work out as planned at all 01:50 hmmmm 3d noise is basically the only way to make ridges 01:51 hmmmm what i really want the 3d noise to do is to form mostly on higher parts, like the mountains and what not 01:51 hmmmm a problem with mapgen v5 was that you almost never had flat terrain to work with... it looked nice, but you couldn't build crap 01:51 hmmmm my usage of 2d noise as a base eliminates that 01:53 Exio haha 01:53 Exio this is funny 01:53 Exio now i get the "stuck" ... later! with the same error 01:54 VanessaE great, now exio has a new toy to play with :) 01:59 hmmmm actually i think the negative of this terrain is more interesting 01:59 hmmmm i made the 3d noise air 01:59 hmmmm to carve out chunks of the 2d generated terrain 02:00 VanessaE screenshot? 02:00 hmmmm well, i mean, i need to make the 3d noise more sparse now 02:00 hmmmm but sure, i'll take a screenshot as-is 02:01 hmmmm with this you get the benefits of both 3d and 2d noise and none of the disadvantages 02:02 hmmmm minetest-0.4.5 is the 5th most popular file on omploader :) hah 02:02 VanessaE too bad 0.4.6 is out soon :D 02:03 hmmmm what on earth 02:03 hmmmm both zimg and omploader are having problems 02:03 Exio how i thinked 02:04 hmmmm well, whatever. 02:04 VanessaE the whole net's fucked up today 02:04 Exio added a printf("--stuff--\n", dtime); before the "collision detection" 02:04 Exio get mt gets stuck 02:05 Exio => my term full of --stuff-- and more --stuff-- :D 02:12 Exio wtf, printf("..\n", dtime); 02:12 Exio i need to read what i write 02:12 VanessaE oops? :) 02:16 hmmmm http://ompldr.org/vaHluZQ 02:22 kaeza https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/589 02:23 RealBadAngel kaeza, im pretty sure this will fuck up stargates ;) 02:23 kaeza how so? 02:23 RealBadAngel 8/9 segments of it doesnt have selection box 02:24 RealBadAngel 9th covers them all 02:24 kaeza hmm... 02:24 RealBadAngel can you test it? 02:25 kaeza sure 02:25 kaeza lemme fetch technic 02:25 RealBadAngel i may be wrong, maybe the bigger one will override it 02:26 RealBadAngel hmmmm, is this supposed to be cavegen? 02:26 hmmmm no 02:26 hmmmm that's just terrain 02:26 VanessaE hmmmm: I *like* that last screenshot 02:26 VanessaE THAT is the sort of terrain most have been wanting, I think 02:26 VanessaE except those distant mountains are a little too simple, maybe 02:27 hmmmm no shit 02:27 VanessaE (but you said this was indeed simple for the moment) 02:27 hmmmm like i'm not trying to fix that 02:28 kaeza wait... RealBadAngel you said 8/9 of your stargates do not use a selection box. you mean a nil selection box or a 0x0x0 selection box? 02:29 RealBadAngel not defined at all 02:29 RealBadAngel only bottom middle node has the selection box to cover 3x3 area 02:30 kaeza well... let's see if this breaks 'em 02:32 Exio i think i got *where* is the problem 02:33 RealBadAngel is my system broken then? 02:34 Exio haha 02:35 Exio enviroment.cpp:2025-2103 (at least here, but if you see 02:35 Exio gets a infinite loop 02:35 Exio if you see the code you will get where it is) * 02:36 Exio now to check the code and see what really is wrong 02:37 kaeza RealBadAngel, how do I get/craft a stargate? 02:37 RealBadAngel no craft recipe yet 02:37 kaeza itemstring? 02:37 RealBadAngel use givme stargate:stargate 02:37 kaeza ok 02:38 kaeza cannot give an unknown item 02:38 RealBadAngel i havent made one yet cause im not sure stargates should be standalone or tied to technic 02:38 RealBadAngel ahh, wait 02:39 kaeza well... I'd prefer stargates to be standalone.. but it's your mod anyway :P 02:39 RealBadAngel stargate:gatenode8_off 02:40 kaeza that worked 02:40 kaeza there isn't any conflict with my change and the stargates it seems 02:41 RealBadAngel good :) 02:46 kaeza probably unrelated: 23:43:53: ERROR[main]: ServerError: LuaError: error: ...sting/mods/calinou_mods/moreblocks/redefinitions.lua:191: attempt to index local 'ret' (a nil value) 02:46 kaeza that happened when right-clicked the stargate after activation 02:48 Exio hahahaha 02:48 Exio got teleported to -90 with the trampolines 02:48 Exio VanessaE: i got that stuff 02:48 Exio -nan! 02:49 VanessaE hah! 02:49 VanessaE but did it send the server to never-never land? 02:49 Exio never-never land? no idea, my coords are, actually: 832, -nan, 327 02:49 Exio and everything is grey :) 02:50 VanessaE as in the RAM+CPU insanity :-) 02:50 Exio one cpu at 100% the others normally, between 10 to 30% 02:50 Exio % 02:51 Exio and nope, not eating my ram 02:52 ShadowNinja hmmmm: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/590 02:57 Exio -215000 02:57 Exio my y cord VanessaE 02:57 VanessaE heh 02:57 VanessaE well at least you can see one of the bugs :) 02:57 Exio and 4 FPS 02:57 VanessaE I'm kinda surpri....... 02:57 VanessaE uh oh. 02:57 VanessaE better check your RAM/CPU usage :) 02:58 Exio it wasn't high 02:58 Exio i added a "limit" to the infinite loop causing that 02:58 VanessaE oh? 02:58 Exio i'm debugging it :P 02:59 VanessaE have fun :-) 03:00 Exio 10 FPS! when limiting to 250 instead of inf 03:01 VanessaE heh 03:01 Exio it is funny because my player is now in, .. nonwhere? 03:01 VanessaE yup, you're in The Voice 03:01 VanessaE fuck! 03:01 VanessaE yup, you're in The VOID 03:01 Exio i leaved the matrix 03:01 Exio >:D 03:01 * VanessaE takes some of exio's red pills 03:02 Exio haha 03:02 Exio wooo 03:03 Exio 8309249873236578271260856811520 03:03 Exio my y coord 03:03 VanessaE WTF? 03:03 VanessaE O_O 03:03 Exio yep 03:04 Exio i see why mt gets stuck xD 03:04 Exio so, the problem is not that while 03:04 ShadowNinja oh, make sure you enable text-wrap for the coords :-) 03:05 Exio hahaha 03:16 Exio if(bouncy_jump && control.jump){ 03:16 Exio m_speed.Y += movement_speed_jump*BS; 03:16 Exio i think i've found what is wrong 03:18 VanessaE which is? 03:18 VanessaE (I don't know how that code works) 03:19 Exio it just adds the "speed jump" to the actual speed 03:19 Exio i added a "printf" after that for the value of m_speed.Y 03:19 Exio http://dpaste.com/1043754/ 03:20 VanessaE lol 03:20 VanessaE um 03:20 VanessaE yeah that would be the problem 03:20 Exio well, that makes me feel a bit less useless ^^ 03:21 Exio now to get a proper, or at least decent, fix 03:21 VanessaE m_speed += movement_speed_jump*BS; if ( m_speed > 5000 ); then m_speed = 500; fi 03:21 VanessaE or something similar 03:21 VanessaE I don't know enough C++ to get that right the first time :-) 03:21 VanessaE er, that was supposed to be a 500, not 5000 03:21 Exio a speed_cap? 03:21 Exio i'll do that and send a pull request 03:21 VanessaE yeah. assuming that's nodes/sec, 500 is already quite insane 03:22 VanessaE might want to define some constant at 500 or 1000 or something and use that, so it can be easily referenced later. e.g. your speed_cap idea 03:23 VanessaE but first see if that works ;) 03:23 Exio i'll check what it does when i limit the m_speed.Y=5000 and then talk 03:23 Exio hehe, yeah 03:24 VanessaE yeah, make both 5000 03:25 Exio it seems a "perfect" fix 03:25 VanessaE I have to assume that X and Z will need similar limits eventually, though for now it's okay 03:25 Exio the only change what is "done" in the "bouncy stuff" is for the Y coord, not the X or Z 03:25 VanessaE oh ok 03:25 VanessaE right, that makes sense. duh. :D 03:26 Exio ehm... i wonder what happened when i started writing here.. 03:26 Exio now it is in ... -nan other time 03:26 VanessaE eh? 03:27 Exio exactly, no idea what happened :P 03:28 VanessaE but it's okay now? 03:28 Exio nah, now it crashes, but after more time of jumping 03:28 VanessaE (I assume the NaN is from a divide-by-zero error or so) 03:28 Exio s/crashes/gets stuck/ 03:29 Exio new value of m_speed!!!!!!!!11111!!one: 5000.000000 03:29 Exio new value of m_speed!!!!!!!!11111!!one: -1464338519404052480.000000 03:29 Exio VanessaE: +5000 and -5000 03:30 VanessaE oh my 03:30 VanessaE oh yeah, I guess you need a negative cap of 0 03:30 VanessaE or is m_speed more of a delta thing than a raw speed? 03:31 Exio i'm not fully sure 03:31 Exio but i'd say it is more like a raw speed, but i repeat 03:31 VanessaE what's the variable type being used here? 03:31 Exio NOTSURE :P 03:31 hmmmm ENOTSURE 03:31 VanessaE trying to figure out how it's wrapping around to -14 bazillion 03:31 Exio double, i think, if not, float :P 03:31 hmmmm what are you doing 03:32 VanessaE hmmmm: he's fixing the client hang/crash that happens with certain usages of the jumping code 03:32 hmmmm the correct way to fix the collision thing is to add bounds to how much is allocated 03:32 VanessaE place a jeija "jumping" trampoline, place another 3 nodes above it. set both to max. jump on the bottom one. You die + client crash. 03:32 VanessaE this is a different bug 03:33 VanessaE he found it before the collision bug :D 03:33 hmmmm ah 03:33 Exio is there other bug about this? 03:33 VanessaE Exio: there's a bug in the collision code too, related but different than this 03:34 VanessaE hmmmm: did you see his debug output? 03:34 VanessaE new value of m_speed!!!!!!!!11111!!one: 26659528970266221230541500217032704.000000 03:34 VanessaE Exio: I think it's an absolute speed, so a lower-end cap of 0 should be fine. 03:34 hmmmm yes, i see that in the channel, but i don't know what code is doing that so i can't comment on it 03:35 Exio hmmmm: localplayer.cpp:325~ (as i modified some lines so not sure :P) 03:36 Exio VanessaE: i didn't see any <0 value in legits jumps, i think the same 03:36 hmmmm anyway, i hope you fixed the actual cause of the crash 03:36 hmmmm because if not, somebody could make an exploit for it, if you're just fixing what causes the crash 03:36 hmmmm fixing a situation in which the crash happens* 03:37 Exio yep, the actual cause is just a "raw" + 03:37 Exio what adds until infinite 03:39 VanessaE hmmmm: the reason this came up, btw, was my server had another accel+collision crash 03:41 Exio what should be the commit message? 03:43 VanessaE "Add cap to jump speed" maybe? 03:43 VanessaE that's what I'd say anyway 03:43 VanessaE "Add jump speed cap, stops client crash with certain uses of jumping code." 03:43 hmmmm hmm 03:44 hmmmm for the biome calculation i'm going to do something pretty different from what i was originally going to do, by celeron's suggestion 03:45 hmmmm biome boundaries are calculated as with a voroni diagram from points such as heat/humidity/etc. 03:46 Exio VanessaE: the only "code" what can cause the crash i fixed is with the bouncy stuff, btw https://github.com/EXio4/minetest/commit/231ec89c1d9a2e095bad7f2f4db1477a5ecdd060 03:46 Exio anything to change or i just throw the pull request? 03:46 hmmmm i didn't really like this because adding one biome messes up all the others, and you might want to control biome frequency 03:46 hmmmm exio, question for you, what was the actual crash message? 03:47 VanessaE Exio: looks good to me, short and simple. 03:47 VanessaE hmmmm: it hangs/locks up the client 03:47 Exio that 03:47 hmmmm thiught you said it crashes 03:47 hmmmm thought 03:47 VanessaE yeah, sorry. not the right word 03:47 VanessaE the client locks up solid and has to be killed. 03:47 VanessaE (to me, that's a form of a crash) 03:47 Exio and when you reconnect you are at 1334534783243463745734085564580345 03:48 Exio or -238324349856085354093845-453465 03:48 VanessaE lol yep 03:48 Exio real numbers 03:49 Exio hmmmm: it gets "hanged" in a infinite (while) loop at enviroment.cpp:2025~ 03:51 Exio (when you reconnect you get "hanged" in that infinite while loop, too) 03:52 Exio a way to see that is adding a && loopcount < 100 or 75 or so for keeping the client with more than 5~10 FPS and a printf or whatever with the "loopcount" variable, values between 1 to 10 'max', suddenly, the 100 03:53 hmmmm ah 03:53 hmmmm with a huge player speed, dtime_max_increment would become very small but not 0 03:53 Exio Setting this to 0 (no -=dtime_part) disables an infinite loop 03:53 Exio when dtime_part is so small that dtime_downcount -= dtime_part 03:53 Exio does nothing 03:53 hmmmm yeah i can see that 03:54 hmmmm hmm how to fix that isn't immediately obvious to me 03:55 hmmmm i guess a lower bound can be set for dtime increments 03:56 Exio fix what of that? the 'infinite loo' at that thing? 03:56 hmmmm yes 03:57 Exio starting for players a 20000 or more blocks of the world limit... 03:57 Exio i really think there should be a way to enforce the "be" inside the world_limit (as, ANYTHING will NEVER be outside the map, if yes, it gets back 03:57 hmmmm you know, i would put a clamp on player_speed too if i were you 03:58 Exio "clamp"? 03:58 hmmmm yeah 03:58 hmmmm like on line 2007 03:58 ShadowNinja hmmmm: did you see my pull? 03:58 hmmmm player_speed = MYMIN(player_speed, 5000) 03:58 hmmmm shadowninja, i did 03:59 Exio ah, got it 03:59 Exio should i add it to my commit too? 04:07 hmmmm erm 04:07 hmmmm nah 04:08 hmmmm prestidigitator seems to be watching us from the channel logs 04:08 Exio why you say that when i already push -f 04:08 hmmmm hi, prestidigitator, great job at being creepy :) 04:08 Exio hahahaha 04:09 hmmmm i thought he was "done with this political BS" 04:09 Exio in any case, does this seems ok for a pull request? https://github.com/EXio4/minetest/commit/48cbec2bf30f042e38442d78a4ca31b0bec55682 04:09 hmmmm yeah, that's fine 04:09 hmmmm actually 04:10 Exio yep? 04:10 hmmmm you know, it's probably better if the server had hard limits on things like speed too 04:10 hmmmm but i don't know, can someone really screw up the server if they go too fast? 04:10 hmmmm from what you said before, it seemed to be only the client having the problems 04:10 Exio ask VanessaE 04:10 Exio i only had problems with the server 04:10 Exio err, client 04:11 Exio but no idea really 04:14 Exio can anyone access to coursera.org? 04:14 Exio or a ping, at least 04:15 Exio 25 packets transmitted, 0 received, 100% packet loss, time 24193ms 04:15 VanessaE hmmmm: correct - the bug he was addressing is, afaik, strictly client-side 04:15 VanessaE I've never crashed my server from it anyway 04:17 Exio now i need help from VanessaE for saying in a decent english what was the bug and the fix 04:17 Exio because i'm going to write nonsense :P 04:18 kaeza +continue 04:18 kaeza :P 04:18 VanessaE Exio: "Sometimes jumping speed can exceed the limits of XXXXX - cap speed to 0 <= N <= 5000. Fixes client lockup with certain uses of jumping devices such as trampolines." 04:18 VanessaE Change XXXX to the variable type in question. 04:18 VanessaE (int or whatever) 04:19 VanessaE too verbose? :) 04:19 Exio nah, perfect 04:20 Exio but it is not only or when jumping, it is when "bouncy jumping" if we can say 04:20 VanessaE right 04:20 VanessaE add in "bouncy" then 04:20 Exio (check the code of the trampolines, bouncy = stuff) 04:23 Exio well, something 04:24 Exio here we go, a very cool and nice pull request https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/591 04:27 ShadowNinja hmm, 52 pull requests, maybe a few more active pushers would be a good idea, kwolekr seems to be doing it all 04:32 Exio there is some stuff what is delayed because the feature freeze and similar 04:35 ShadowNinja well yes, but I havn't seen it below 40, he is just barely keeping up 04:38 Exio https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/326 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/575 + luajit should be for the 0.4.7 "rc" 04:40 Exio and https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/585 too 04:40 Exio about the last, just as "fixing mem leaks" 04:43 hmmmm i got it to 39 once 04:45 ShadowNinja well that is still just once, it hasn't been steadily decreasing 04:47 Exio hmmmm: suddenly, more features :P 04:48 ShadowNinja heh, everyone aims to get them in before feature-freeze and just misses :-) 04:53 Exio well, i'm going to sleep now 04:53 Exio good night 06:16 celeron55 hmmmm: you should both add and subtract with 3D noise - both are good 06:21 celeron55 --- 06:21 celeron55 i think all Exio's fixes are wrong 06:22 celeron55 the speed should be limited in collisionMoveSimple, not elsewhere 06:22 celeron55 this way you're doomed to get the bug somewhere else and cluttering other code with copypasta checks that don't belong there 06:23 celeron55 the problem is the collision and movement code, not the speed that some entity happens to have; the collision and movement code should 100% handle any values given 06:24 celeron55 and then there will be no more problems, ever 06:30 VanessaE I don't even see where it's calling that function at all here.. 07:14 kaeza you know what? screw that selection box fix. It would be better to use the node box directly as selection box.otherwise things like technic or mesecons wires willseeno benefit at all 07:14 kaeza will see no* 07:18 VanessaE kaeza: what's needed is a way to set the selection box based on the nodeboxes, such that the selection box exactly follows the nodebox shape -- but... 07:18 VanessaE ... with the selection box blown out a bit. 07:18 kaeza hmm... 07:18 VanessaE maybe by like 25% or some configurable number. like the "grow selection" function in an image editor 07:19 VanessaE selection_box = { type = "auto", auto = "25%" } 07:19 VanessaE or something like that 07:20 kaeza that wouldrequire C++ changes, no? 07:20 kaeza I ain't touching that 07:20 VanessaE it could theoretically be done entirely in Lua 07:20 VanessaE but it would be a bitch. 07:20 kaeza not hard to do in Lua, but somebody would complain it's "too hacky" 07:22 kaeza doing that would be as follows: recognize "auto" in the sel box on register_item(), calc the boxes (based on the "auto" param), and replace the sel box type to "fixed" and the list of boxes 07:23 kaeza too hacky? 07:23 VanessaE actually that sounds good. the issue is calculating each of the boxes' coordinates. 07:24 VanessaE you have to blow each coordinate pair out by twice the given value, then re-center that pair against the original nodebox, then repeat for every coordinate pair that's specified 07:24 kaeza that shouldn't be hard. it's just calc'ing the center, the width (and height and length) and adding as much as needed to every side 07:24 VanessaE It could be done in Lua, and it wouldn't be slow at all (not that it matters much at startup). 07:25 VanessaE *shrug* give it a shot :_0 07:25 VanessaE :-) 07:31 kaeza actually, I don't need the centers :) 07:44 VanessaE bbl 07:48 kaeza forget about that. It looks ugly >.< 07:54 kaeza https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/592 13:59 Exio celeron55: for me, having an entity or anything at THAT speed is not something what should be "ok" 14:01 Exio there should be a limit, even if it is high, (even if it should be in other place, i don't know "the whole" code of MT about that stuff, i just tried to look around) 14:46 hmmmm well 14:46 hmmmm i'm not going to reply to the last prestidgititoatr message on the forums because i think he made my point well enough, and i decided that i won't respond more than twice anyway 14:50 hmmmm i was supposed to go to school today but my alarm clock was set for the wrong time :( meh, it's just one class today 14:51 Exio /ctcp hmmmm time 14:54 hmmmm i am going to work on the mapgen until 1pm, then i'm going to cut it short and get school-related things done 14:55 Exio what time where you live? 14:56 hmmmm EST zone 14:58 Exio ah, a bit more of time than here (nearly 12AM) 15:42 celeron55 PilzAdam: 15:42 celeron55 Hello Celeron, 15:42 celeron55 My name is neron on the minetest forums, and I have been banned by 15:42 celeron55 user account and IP with the message "getminecraftforfree spam" I 15:42 celeron55 believe it was due to the post I made to PilzAdam about MiniTest. I 15:42 celeron55 think it was misunderstood that I was spamming. I was actually hoping 15:42 celeron55 that PilzAdam might be able to more accurately redesign minecraft by 15:42 celeron55 using a free copy. I am sorry that it looked liked I was spamming. 15:42 celeron55 Would you please consider lifting the ban? Thanks, 15:43 celeron55 neron 15:43 celeron55 oh god, not this newline crap again 15:43 celeron55 well, i guess 'lll learn to copy-paste some day 15:44 PilzAdam oh, I remember his post 15:44 PilzAdam dunno who banned him 15:45 celeron55 well, sounds like sfan5 or Calinou; they have a track record of doing silly things 15:49 Calinou sfan5 banned him, not me 15:49 Calinou xyz* 15:50 Calinou PilzAdam: should his ban be removed? 15:51 PilzAdam dunno 15:51 PilzAdam I guess yes 15:54 celeron55 throw him a PM then so he knows (i think the forum sends those by e-mail by default) 15:56 hmmmm hrmm 15:56 hmmmm http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Data_values#Biome_IDs 15:56 hmmmm notice how there's no pattern to the biome ids 15:57 hmmmm pretty dumb if you ask me... i'm making biomes a bitfield with a value for each of the three attributes 15:58 celeron55 well, it's just made by something like this http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/File:BiomesGraph.png 15:59 hmmmm if you do add terrain variance to that, it doesn't correlate at all 16:00 celeron55 i don't know how they do that 16:00 celeron55 i guess it's been reworked a lot since the early biomes 16:01 hmmmm anyway i need to go with your voroni diagram idea.. i realized that I can get around the problem of a biome occuring more often than you'd like by being able to place points that are compared against outside of the range of acceptable values 16:03 hmmmm i feel like i should also include some kind of utility for people to see the voroni diagram with their biome setup, so they can visualize how common a biome really is 16:04 hmmmm if we're going to include minetestmapper in the core, it'd make sense to do this as well 16:07 celeron55 points could have weights to them though too 16:07 celeron55 it doesn't complicate it much i think 16:08 hmmmm it does make it less predictable though, which shouldn't be a problem if people can actually see the distribution of their biomes 16:08 celeron55 how are you going to visualize it, as the map is going to be 3d? 16:09 celeron55 (temprature, humidity, and height or something related to it) 16:09 hmmmm that's the thing, i don't know if it's going to be 3d or not 16:09 celeron55 i think it kind of has to be 16:09 hmmmm height itself is a more unrelated factor 16:09 celeron55 or, well... 16:09 hmmmm it just won't work at all for hell/sky biomes 16:10 hmmmm height variance on the other hand, i see that as something that could be an attribute on top of temperature/humidity 16:10 celeron55 if the height is simply taken into account for temperature and humidity, i guess it will work 16:10 celeron55 like, higher is colder and dryer 16:10 hmmmm that would make sense, but i'd rather not do that 16:10 celeron55 what will you do then? 16:11 hmmmm i don't have everything figured out, i've only been thinking about this for a couple hours 16:11 hmmmm i've tossed some ideas around passively, but i just added them to the list of ideas and never went to fully consider them until now when i'm actually working on it 16:11 celeron55 i still think this latest suggestion of mine would work well 16:12 hmmmm i can try it, but i have a feeling it might make things too boring 16:13 celeron55 well; maybe - it's the issue of real life being boring 16:13 celeron55 but it's a trivial solution which has a good chance of working 8) 16:13 hmmmm what i have now for terrain generation is really great but i have a feeling people will bitch about there being a couple floating blocks 16:14 hmmmm wonder if i should do a post-generation gravity check 16:14 celeron55 i suggest not caring about that bitching; there are way more people who love flying blocks than those who hate them 16:14 celeron55 but only those who are unhappy will say anything 16:14 hmmmm also, it would be interesting if you were in a desert, and then above you is a single floating blob with snow and ice 16:15 celeron55 dunno 16:16 celeron55 if the desert is very dry and hot, not really; of course if it's a chilly-ish desert, then it would make some sense (and would actually work via my suggestion) 16:16 hmmmm in real life, all deserts are cold at nighttime 16:18 BlockMen hello 16:18 BlockMen celeron55, have you seen the pull request for homepage? 16:19 celeron55 yes; i'm not really in the mood of going through it now 16:19 hmmmm i saw that pull request, i don't really want to be "glorified" like that 16:19 celeron55 it's a lot of code 16:20 BlockMen ok, np 16:20 BlockMen hmmm, what do you mean? 16:20 BlockMen *hmmm 16:20 thexyz wut 16:20 hmmmm all the developers on the front page? :/ 16:20 thexyz so, now spamming about "free" minecraft is allowed, right? 16:21 thexyz sorry, didn't know that 16:21 BlockMen on the community page 16:21 hmmmm please tell me that i misread it and that was the about page, or better, a contributor's page 16:21 BlockMen so a sub-page 16:21 celeron55 thexyz: was it his first post? 16:21 hmmmm alright, better i guess 16:22 thexyz celeron55: no, i guess 16:22 celeron55 if not, then banning is kind of too much; if yes, then whatever; we have too many spammers to be any more thorough in decisions 16:23 celeron55 if somebody new but one who has already posted legit stuff is misbehaving on the forum, such should be warned about first; ban comes second 16:24 thexyz ok 16:24 thexyz i just got really tired by those free minecraft ads at our forum 16:26 BlockMen_ thexyz, can you add the views to extern.php->rss (at the forum)? 16:28 thexyz so, what's the point of asking a question and leaving right after? 16:28 thexyz oh 16:28 thexyz i'm blind 16:28 thexyz BlockMen_: well, send me a patch 16:29 thexyz BlockMen_: i'm not going to mess with it 16:29 BlockMen_ thexyz, sry, client crashed 16:29 BlockMen_ so if i code that you would implement? 16:30 thexyz sure, just tell me what did you mean by saying "views" 16:33 BlockMen_ thexyz, i mean the views of a topic (like on viewforum.php) 16:33 BlockMen_ and great, i will let you know when i coded 16:33 thexyz oh, so, count of views 16:34 BlockMen_ yes 17:03 hmmmm hmm? pilzadam, you seem to be generating a lot of buzz with the whole being-able-to-see-yourself modification 17:03 hmmmm how did you do it that's so hacky, exactly? 17:04 PilzAdam I just made the CAO of the local player visible and set the animation and position in its on_step 17:04 PilzAdam but we cant really know the animation it 17:04 PilzAdam we even dont know if it uses a mode at all 17:05 hmmmm do you think you'll polish that up? 17:05 hmmmm i think it'd be a great addition, and it has much positive feedback 17:05 celeron55 have you made some kind of a shortcut or is it lagged by the network? 17:06 PilzAdam celeron55, Its client side 17:06 PilzAdam I hard coded the animation frames 17:06 PilzAdam hmmmm, I dont think I can polish it 17:06 hmmmm i think it's better without any server interaction 17:06 PilzAdam it would require some restructure of the whole player model thing 17:07 hmmmm hmm 17:07 celeron55 hmmmm: the key here is that to make the player animate and move immediately, you have to do it locally - but the player model and it's animations can really be *anything*, as said by the server 17:07 PilzAdam we should add a minetest.set_player_animation({dig_start=167, dig_end=178;…}) 17:07 celeron55 hmmmm: so you can just guess 17:07 hmmmm guessing isn't really that bad 17:07 sfan5 celeron55: :/ 17:08 celeron55 i guess there should be a static specification of animations (like what frames or some kind of an animation name (whatever a format supports) is walking, digging and whatever) 17:08 hmmmm pilzadam, ? digging animations setable from within lua? 17:08 * sfan5 does not like the "they have a track record of doing silly things" part 17:08 celeron55 and that specification should be sent from the server to the client 17:08 PilzAdam hmmmm, just the frame ranges to set the animations for the default actions 17:08 hmmmm oh 17:09 hmmmm yeah i get it now 17:09 hmmmm now i think that's great, and we send it to the client all in a single packet 17:09 celeron55 sfan5: it's my experience of things - of course it's not so bad i'd remove the moderator status though 17:09 hmmmm as long as it can be displayed instantly 17:11 hmmmm ah 17:11 hmmmm can't you get the walking and what not from ClientEnvironment? 17:12 hmmmm i don't think what you did is really that hacky, but to do it right, it'd require another packet (or tack the fields onto an existing packet, for that matter...) 17:12 PilzAdam in the current state it is hacky 17:13 PilzAdam but it can be made better 17:13 celeron55 is there something else that is hacky than the hard-coded animations? 17:13 hmmmm i just looked at the code and honestly it doesn't seem so 17:14 celeron55 just make them somehow mod-defined (just like the model) then and it's good to go 17:14 PilzAdam Ill see if I can improve it 17:17 celeron55 you may want to consider one thing: if someobdy wants to make a game where the player is a... ehm, bird or something, he should be able to make the client not do any animations on it's own and just wait for the server to tell them 17:17 celeron55 but feel free not to; it's not really in the scope of today 17:18 BlockMen_ thexyz, http://pastie.org/private/mlpqayxmfhfep6djzx0ua 17:23 hmmmm ahhhhhhh, i am regretting two of my design choices right now 17:24 hmmmm one, not making flat its own mapgen, because now BiomeSuperflat won't work the way I originally intended it to 17:24 hmmmm two, actually beliving that i'd be able to generate all the terrain I needed at once in a single pass 17:25 hmmmm (well, i *could*, but you're not able to do many interesting things with this setup) 17:31 BlockMen_ thexyz, same but highlighted changes now http://pastie.org/private/mlpqayxmfhfep6djzx0ua#137,448,493 17:35 thexyz BlockMen_: done 17:35 thexyz i'd prefer .patch though 17:40 BlockMen_ thexyz, that was fast 17:40 BlockMen_ ty :) 18:32 PilzAdam in wich file should I add minetest.set_player_animation()? 18:38 hmmmm scriptapi.cpp 18:39 hmmmm it doesn't really matter, sapier would take care of where it's placed when he updates the scriptapi cleanup to 0.4.6 for merging 18:42 hmmmm adam, i think we might want to add the trampoline bugfix before 0.4.6, since it's rather critical, doesn't change much, and most people running clients only (windows users) would be using 0.4.6, not the latest git build 18:42 PilzAdam hm 18:43 PilzAdam yea, throw it in :-) 18:43 VanessaE hmmmm: celeron55 said he doesn't like it 18:43 hmmmm what's wrong... 18:44 VanessaE [04-02 02:22] i think all Exio's fixes are wrong 18:44 VanessaE [04-02 02:22] the speed should be limited in collisionMoveSimple, not elsewhere 18:44 VanessaE [04-02 02:23] this way you're doomed to get the bug somewhere else and cluttering other code with copypasta checks that don't belong there 18:44 VanessaE [04-02 02:24] the problem is the collision and movement code, not the speed that some entity happens to have; the collision and movement code should 100% handle any values given 18:44 VanessaE [04-02 02:24] and then there will be no more problems, ever 18:44 VanessaE (however, I'd have done it the same way exio did) 18:44 hmmmm i did say something similar, but this is still acceptable 18:45 hmmmm (then again, i didn't know that collisionMoveSimple had anything to do with the player speed, common sense tells you that it would only deal with position) 18:45 VanessaE that's what I thought. 18:46 hmmmm perhaps it checks the collision with the current position + next step in speed 18:46 hmmmm cba to check 18:47 PilzAdam particles also use collision_move_simple() 18:48 VanessaE yeah but this issue is in the bouncy code adding huge acceleration values that blow out even over 64 bit int without capping it. 18:48 VanessaE not directly related to the server huge RAM+CPU+crashing issue 18:50 hmmmm hmm, "better to both add and subtract 3d noise"? i'm very satisfied with the terrain currently being generated and i'd rather not screw it up 18:50 hmmmm i'll experiment later 18:53 Exio it is an "non controlled" speed problem, there should be a limit somewhere, maybe i just did it in the wrong place 18:53 hmmmm yes exio, he clearly said that the right place to do it in is collisionMoveSimple 18:54 VanessaE this fix breaks my suicide-client-crasher booth though :D 18:54 Exio ah 18:54 Exio yes, read 18:55 Leoneof hello devs! 18:56 Leoneof i've downloaded minetest from git, and compiled, but i can't run it, i get these errors http://pastebin.com/CtVqFFbG 18:56 Jordach Leoneof, is nouveau installed? 18:56 hmmmm sounds more like a driver problem 18:56 Leoneof Jordach: no, it's nvidia driver from offical website 18:57 Jordach Leoneof, i would have probably installed the driver through your normal software channels 18:57 VanessaE PilzAdam: regarding your partially-visible player patch, I like that idea. 18:59 VanessaE there's been a pretty big call for making a player's wielded item visible to others. Any chance we can get that feature into the 0.4.7 cycle? 19:02 Jordach mmmm, yeah 19:02 Jordach it does make it easier to detect items like lava buckets, potentially finding griefers easier 19:03 PilzAdam its not easy since the "default" model isnt part of the engine 19:04 Jordach PilzAdam, minetest.conf as default for builds 19:04 PilzAdam we could just move the current model into the engine 19:04 Jordach which makes this less painful 19:04 Jordach and more of a polished game 19:17 RealBadAngel Leoneof, googled for your error and found this: https://forum.kag2d.com/threads/crashing-before-game-even-runs-d.1275/ 19:53 BlockMen thexyz, could you replace 50 with 300 at this position (http://pastie.org/private/mlpqayxmfhfep6djzx0ua#287)? 20:04 hmmmm hmmm... I am changing the BiomeDefManager to be entirely contained within the EmergeManager 20:05 hmmmm even though it does have some non-mapgen-related things to (in the future) it's just better not directly in Server 20:05 jojoa1997|Tablet hmmmm would it be possible to make the biome definer use lua to define the params but C++ to do the actual work 20:05 Exio he is working in that stuff 20:05 hmmmm jojoa, that's the entire point of the new mapgen... 20:06 Exio i'll look at the speed stuff and limit the speed in the collisionMoveSimple 20:06 hmmmm ok 20:06 jojoa1997|Tablet oh ok 20:06 jojoa1997|Tablet i cant wait to make a snow desert 20:07 jojoa1997|Tablet snow sould be added to minetest for biomes 20:07 hmmmm a lot more textures than that will have to be added 20:07 jojoa1997|Tablet also is there any chance that new trees will be added 20:08 hmmmm there is a chance 20:08 hmmmm it'll be what you want, just trust me 20:08 jojoa1997|Tablet i dont care as long as they are not as big as moretrees 20:08 jojoa1997|Tablet and as numerous 20:09 hmmmm they're going to be moretrees 20:09 hmmmm but if you don't like that, you can make your own trees and use those instead 20:09 jojoa1997|Tablet that is a heavy mod why do you want that 20:10 hmmmm because that was part of the plan 20:10 jojoa1997|Tablet it creates tons of lag why not make regular tree sized ones 20:10 hmmmm the size of the tree isn't what causes the lag, it's the manner in which it's done 20:11 jojoa1997|Tablet ok but one thing is maybe make them a lot rarer cause on my world there is no room to build 20:11 hmmmm lol 20:11 hmmmm i don't have anything do even do with that part, honestly 20:11 jojoa1997|Tablet i know but edit the version of more trees to 20:12 jojoa1997|Tablet have trees per biome and not be as clumped unless in jungle? 20:12 hmmmm moretrees isn't being added as a mod in the default game 20:12 hmmmm you misunderstand 20:12 hmmmm i'd rather not explain it 20:12 hmmmm you'll see 20:12 jojoa1997|Tablet oh 20:12 jojoa1997|Tablet so you are making a mod or not? 20:13 PilzAdam lol 20:13 PilzAdam mapgen v7 as a mod :-) 20:13 hmmmm hahahah 20:13 PilzAdam can you get it to run on 0.3.1? 20:14 jojoa1997|Tablet oh it is the v7 mapgen 20:15 hmmmm "mapgen v7" is really just an umbrella term for a completely new terrain generator that makes much more interesting landforms, biomes, a way to efficiently place arbitrary figures onto the map, and all cool game content that you can make happen with these abilities 20:35 RealBadAngel hmmmm, for those who says trees are to big recommend those: http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=5387 20:35 hmmmm bonzai trees 8) 20:36 RealBadAngel good for dwarves biome ;) 20:38 Jordach or, we could use that for a sapline 20:38 Jordach sapling* 20:39 RealBadAngel thats actually nice idea with multinodeboxes together 20:40 RealBadAngel divide one node into 16x16x16 little cubes (maybe more) and make mini lsystem trees for saplings 20:41 RealBadAngel hell its genial for little plants! 20:42 RealBadAngel all flowers, grass, saplings whatever 20:44 RealBadAngel makin smaller cubes one could generate ultra realistic plants 20:44 RealBadAngel in mods, not the core 20:45 * ShadowNinja would love that as the sapling in default 20:46 hmmmm except saplings don't look like that at all.. 20:46 hmmmm bonzai trees, sure.. but.... 20:46 RealBadAngel ofc, they would need another axiomes 20:47 RealBadAngel i really love the idea 20:47 ShadowNinja well better than the "plantlike" drawtype 20:48 RealBadAngel hell better 20:48 RealBadAngel most funny, to get HD texture pack modder will have just to redefine the cuboid 20:49 RealBadAngel and the code will generate plants in HD instead of default 16x16x16 20:50 ShadowNinja that would be realy cool 20:51 thexyz BlockMen: done 20:52 BlockMen thexyz, thanks! 20:53 RealBadAngel so for example to get grass or flower in 128x you redefine default:grass cuboid_resolution=128 and done :) 20:54 RealBadAngel in fact in this textures will be just colors of the pixels in 3d model 20:55 * ShadowNinja wonders how you will apply textures properly to a random model 20:56 RealBadAngel same as for trees 20:56 RealBadAngel but at this level texture will be color of the 3d pixel 20:58 Jordach does anyone remember this type of mapgen: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-020413-215803.php 21:01 ShadowNinja Jordach: no, it usualy doesn't generate cloud... 21:02 Jordach ShadowNinja, that's taken from when minetest's mapper was a little more crazy 21:02 Jordach 0.3.x days -> early 0.4 days 21:03 ShadowNinja yea, I have seen flying chunks of rock and dirt :-) 21:04 ShadowNinja but I wish we had stuff like that, everything is a plain with a clif here and there, we should have mountains 21:04 Jordach ShadowNinja, very early versions of 0.4 generate those types of map 21:04 Jordach and everything below 0.3.x generates it too 21:06 hmmmm :( 21:06 hmmmm the order in which things happen is such a pain in the butt 21:06 hmmmm i wish that the environment was created before the scripts run 21:34 BlockMen gd n8t everyone 23:20 Exio well 23:20 Exio finally, stopped playing redeclipse and stuff, i'll check about the stuff 23:27 Exio well 23:29 Exio is this https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/591 right, then? 23:30 Exio just tried and didn't get any hang 23:30 Exio (aka, "works")