Time Nick Message 00:00 hmmmm proller, those two on_generate calls are running all the time 00:00 hmmmm so now air generation for regular maps will take even more time 00:01 PilzAdam we can disable them if we had a interface to read map_meta.txt 00:02 hmmmm why use the old perlin noise functions? 00:02 hmmmm what's wrong with perlin noise maps? 07:00 celeron55 PilzAdam: it should be relatively obvious that i fully support option 2 07:03 celeron55 just don't let minecraft influence you too much; that doesn't really make any good; mainly because it completely limits Minetest to people who just want Minecraft for free or want FOSS 07:03 celeron55 minetest_game should be something that's worthy on it's own 07:07 celeron55 actually... i guess we could start an another official game and leave minetest_game as-is 07:08 celeron55 i don't know if it's wise 07:08 celeron55 it is a 100% fact that we cannot please everyone at the same time; people should first learn to deal with that 07:09 celeron55 with minetest we kind of can; with a game, nope 07:11 celeron55 so, let's imagine we started a game called "survival" 07:11 celeron55 how would the mod composition of that be? would it contain a mod named "default"? 07:12 celeron55 the initial idea (as designed by me and kahrl) was that a game should mainly contain a mod, the name of which is same as the name of the game 07:13 celeron55 we could take the current default and just put it in the survival game, but we need a way to not need to copy all changes from the default of minetest_game into there 07:14 celeron55 the way could be that the default is just left as-is everywhere and to minetest_game we add a mod called minetest_game, and to survival a mod called survival, which contain the rest of the core things in the games 07:14 celeron55 then default kind of specifies the common base of all games built on minetest 07:15 celeron55 which is a good thing 07:15 celeron55 and very backwards-compatible with everything, without considerable downsides (?) 07:21 celeron55 i also propose that default is rolled backwards a bit, at least making mese as it originally was; it just doesn't seem to work for people now 07:22 celeron55 or at least the original texture is put back 07:22 celeron55 and the mese ore thing is removed 07:22 celeron55 or, well... i don't really know; i feel that if i still actually played minetest, the mese change would have really made me mad 07:26 celeron55 anyway, that isn't as important; the point here is that i suggest that default is never touched anymore, but is rather copied as-is to new games with new features in a game-specific mod (people are free to not use default too, but it will make many mods unable to work) 07:33 celeron55 and i suggest that we put a couple of games in the official distribution, each having a real point in them; the initial games could be "survive" and "build" 07:36 celeron55 the rule for adding games is that there should be as few as possible, but as many as required 07:36 celeron55 8) 07:37 celeron55 if the engine some day supports something like gravitation- and sunlight-less games, then a game called "space_survive" would be added 07:39 celeron55 (that one wouldn't have any use for default) 07:44 celeron55 i would want people to focus on the official games, but making new different kind of ones is encouraged; they may be included in the official distribution if they're good; i could imagine many different games but won't mention any (at least now) 07:45 celeron55 well, actually i will, because the point is much clearer that way: a possible one would be a "roguelike" with the world consisting solely of dungeons and many things being doable with spells 07:48 celeron55 a not possible one is minetest_game with pink graphics and 10 added ores, because there is no point in that 11:11 celeron55 PilzAdam: log 11:12 PilzAdam already read it 11:13 celeron55 well, what do you think? 11:14 PilzAdam I generally like the idea of 2 games, "survive" and "build", in the official releases 11:14 PilzAdam but as of now, default isnt read 11:14 celeron55 read? 11:14 PilzAdam *ready 11:15 PilzAdam there is too much content missing that would fit survival and build gameplay 11:15 celeron55 so do you think it should not be included in those games, or that it should be prepared for such usage? 11:16 PilzAdam I think we should develop default in a general direction and add more content that is usefull for both gameplay types 11:17 celeron55 could work 11:19 celeron55 "default" would be defined as the base for minecraft-like games; things in common are certain nodes (especially for the terrain) and world generation 11:20 celeron55 (and something else, probably) 11:23 celeron55 i wonder how the development of default should be organized 11:24 celeron55 i guess just do it in minetest_game for now, and update to other games as the developers of them feel like it 11:30 celeron55 in the long run it might require some mechanism for having common mods between games... something like this: have "common_mods = default, whatever" in game.conf, and have the special gameid "common" so that the engine will grab mods defined in that way from mods/common/ 11:30 celeron55 there are some challenges in this 11:31 celeron55 if default is put in $path_share/mods/common/default, how is that handled in version control? 11:32 PilzAdam maybe but it in $path_share/games/common, since only games load them 11:32 celeron55 putting it in the engine repo isn't really an option; it simply isn't meant for such 11:32 PilzAdam (so we have an own repo for it, like minetest_game currently) 11:33 celeron55 ah, yeah, games/common/ is better 11:33 celeron55 ...maybe 11:34 celeron55 actually no 11:35 celeron55 that structure would kind of imply that the mods in there would work as a game when combined 11:35 celeron55 while they can be totally incompatible 11:35 PilzAdam maybe put something in game.conf 11:35 PilzAdam or put no game.conf at all in it 11:36 celeron55 it's probably still better than mods/common because it would be too easy for a user to accidentally delete the common ones 11:36 celeron55 as users generally mess around in mods/ but not in games/ 11:37 PilzAdam how does minetest currently handle games that have no game.conf? 11:37 celeron55 that's unimportant; we can now define that such a one is not a game 11:38 celeron55 because there are no compatibility issues in that 11:41 celeron55 more comments from anyone else? 11:42 celeron55 i don't want to force some design that most people disagree with, but i will take silence as agreeing 12:48 proller maybe try make simple deathmatch mode? with random spawn in area, hiding far players names, and frag counter ? 12:48 proller next step - team DM, and next - CTF 12:50 rsiska proller: that sounds awesome. we need ace of spades-like mod. 12:52 celeron55 proller: well, assuming somebody makes it and it's actually a fun game, there is no reason why it shouldn't exist 13:04 Exio add guns, and KillerTest \o/ 13:04 celeron55 we'll need to define whether survival contains PVP or not, though, and whether it's setting is more modern than MC's or not 13:05 Exio what should be "pvp-only"? 13:05 celeron55 altough, probably for the ace of spades liking people that wouldn't be enough anyway 13:06 celeron55 so something like that could be made too 13:07 proller Exio, http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=4562 13:07 Exio kaeza's guns mod? 13:08 Exio (droid - slow network) 13:18 proller yes 16:56 celeron55 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/556 16:56 PilzAdam is that your first pull request to minetest? 16:57 celeron55 it actually is 17:00 celeron55 shall i make the "common" repo on github.com/minetest? there's some documentation and updating to do before it can be actually taken into use though (as you'll need one more repo to make minetest_game work) 17:00 hmmmm woah, wall of text in the logs 17:00 celeron55 actually, hmm... maybe we could just cram common + all the games in one repo 17:00 celeron55 would be much easier 17:02 hmmmm for the record, i support the recent mese changes, i feel that it makes a lot of sense 17:04 rubenwardy I agree that is does make sense, but it also distorts the personality of Minetest 17:04 rubenwardy maybe 17:05 hmmmm the engine can support sunlight-less games right now thanks to setLighting(), it can be all a uniform level, like pitch black, and you can place some light sources in the generated map that'd light things up, or however you'd like to do it. if you have a grander idea for alternative lighting, you'd need to be more specific 17:08 hmmmm so, why don't you commit your pull requests on your own? 17:09 hmmmm i agree with the common idea, it makes a lot of sense, but that's almost like builtin but with game content rather than globally-shared functions 17:09 PilzAdam i don't want to force some design that most people disagree with 17:09 hmmmm he took silence as agreeing 17:12 hmmmm i'll do a quick mockup of what a space mapgen would look like 17:15 celeron55 such a space thing would also require the sun/moon/day turned off, and a good amount of always-present light to make things practical (both could be simple settings transferred from the server to the client) 17:15 celeron55 but... that's not really the problem at hand now 17:15 hmmmm having it permanently set to night should be easy enough 17:19 celeron55 so are people ready for moving default out from minetest_game right now? PilzAdam? 17:19 PilzAdam yea 17:20 PilzAdam fire and bucket could be move too 17:20 PilzAdam since every game will use them 17:20 PilzAdam (doors and stairs too) 17:20 celeron55 well, not every 17:20 PilzAdam but many 17:20 celeron55 but pretty much all that will use default 17:21 RealBadAngel btw, thx to khonkortisian help i got 6d facedir ready and WELL tested. just docs need to be written 17:21 hmmmm awesome :)! 17:21 hmmmm ahh which reminds me, we need to update leveldb stuff. 17:21 RealBadAngel i will write docs tommorow and pull it then 17:24 hmmmm can we get a pull request for luajit too? 17:24 PilzAdam AFAIK noone has managed to create a working cmake file for it 17:24 RealBadAngel youre asking me to do so? 17:26 RealBadAngel i do have workin cmake 17:26 RealBadAngel but its a mess 17:26 RealBadAngel it creates minilua and some other shit too 17:27 RealBadAngel and one thing 17:27 RealBadAngel it comes with kinda asm module 17:28 RealBadAngel im not quite sure but its supposed to translate lua stuff into asm 17:28 RealBadAngel and it is multiplatform 17:29 hmmmm as long as it falls back to something if the platform isn't supported, it's fine 17:29 hmmmm it's not like having assembly in the minetest codebase is the most horrible thing ever 17:30 hmmmm btw i hope you're not trying to compile LuaJIT with your cmake file 17:30 hmmmm it's a dependency that we don't include, like Irrlicht 17:31 celeron55 PilzAdam: https://github.com/minetest/common 17:31 RealBadAngel http://luajit.org/dynasm.html 17:31 hmmmm oh that's different 17:35 PilzAdam wtf, "Logos 75.1%" 17:35 RealBadAngel imho thats a very interesting feature 17:35 celeron55 PilzAdam: lol 17:36 RealBadAngel and btw, VanessaE server running luajit lately means she has this feature enabled too 17:37 RealBadAngel dynasm is a dependency 17:37 PilzAdam celeron55, I cant push to the repo 17:39 celeron55 PilzAdam: now you should be able to 17:40 PilzAdam yep 17:46 PilzAdam https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/153 17:46 celeron55 added README.txt and buildwin32.sh updates to the pull request 17:47 PilzAdam "1 addition and 10,324 deletions." 17:47 celeron55 that is pretty effective 8) 17:48 PilzAdam also add something to lua-api.txt 18:04 celeron55 PilzAdam: done 18:06 celeron55 merge now? 18:06 VanessaE *looks at log*... um, should I be concerned about these changes? :) 18:06 PilzAdam yep 18:06 celeron55 PilzAdam: you merge mine, i merge yours! 18:07 PilzAdam okay 18:09 celeron55 it still works 8) 18:09 PilzAdam why the merge-commit? 18:10 celeron55 because i'm lazy 18:11 celeron55 did i mess up your carefully crafted commit history? :P 18:11 celeron55 well, i'll rebase it 18:11 PilzAdam :D 18:12 celeron55 done! 18:13 celeron55 half a day worth of thinking and coding, and the end result: http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5r3mdpY2K1qbaj4uo1_400.jpg 18:14 PilzAdam true, for the end-user, nothing has changed 18:14 celeron55 however, hopefully this will let people organize better 18:14 VanessaE guess I have to tweak my build script... 18:15 PilzAdam I write something into the changelog 18:20 celeron55 so, next is some kind of default configuration overlaying according to a game's predefined settings 18:21 celeron55 that's the single other thing required for making this actually work reasonably in practice 18:24 RealBadAngel celeron55, can you telll me what was the odds for nodes def being able to change on the fly? 18:24 RealBadAngel bkvl or something like this tree 18:25 RealBadAngel data stored in meta 18:26 celeron55 RealBadAngel: it's not ready yet because it requires other changes in order to make it's save format reasonably stable; i have no way of guessing when it will be ready 18:26 celeron55 i do not want any pieces of legacy crap to hang in there because of bad initial decisions 18:27 RealBadAngel so what is the right initial decision? 18:28 RealBadAngel i guess using meta was a shortcut, yes? 18:34 celeron55 using meta is probably the correct way, but the format going into there requires rework 18:36 RealBadAngel one question, what if node is already using meta? by modder 18:38 celeron55 it uses a single field in there 18:38 RealBadAngel meta is a string 18:38 RealBadAngel many modders treat it like a single value 18:38 celeron55 i don't see a problem 18:39 RealBadAngel i was doing so before: meta=30 (charge=30) 18:40 celeron55 ? 18:40 PilzAdam RealBadAngel, itemstack meta is different from node meta 18:40 RealBadAngel so whole meta served for holding one value 18:40 PilzAdam in itemstack meta you have only 1 string 18:41 RealBadAngel oh, yes, youre right 18:41 RealBadAngel sorry 18:43 RealBadAngel celeron55, so what about the format? 18:43 celeron55 holy hell (once again)... i don't understand how i had the time to even code this; meta_set_nodedef_2 is huge 18:44 celeron55 the format needs to be perfect, and it isn't 18:44 celeron55 not much more to say than that 18:44 RealBadAngel you did that in one evening afaik 18:46 RealBadAngel other way: if you state something is wrong, please do so 18:46 RealBadAngel tell what is wrong 18:49 RealBadAngel 6d facedir will cut textures, nodes defs by half at least. bkvl is another half 18:49 ShadowNinja RealBadAngel: did you see my message about forcefields? 18:49 RealBadAngel ShadowNinja, yes. you got rights. feel free to change whats necessary 18:50 RealBadAngel i merged your initial commit 18:50 celeron55 have you tried rebasing meta_set_nodedef_2 on top of current master? 18:51 celeron55 i wonder how much of a PITA that is 18:51 RealBadAngel i guess it will be pain in the ass 18:51 RealBadAngel 2 weeks with my current work costed me 2 days of rebasing thx to ctl 18:52 * ShadowNinja needs a better way to make backups than cp, maybe something with rsync? 18:53 RealBadAngel ShadowNinja, btw, you should add on/off switch 18:55 ShadowNinja mesecons or setting the range to 0 18:55 RealBadAngel if net is not capable of dealin with needs, user should be able to decide 18:56 RealBadAngel maybe just switch in formspec? 18:56 RealBadAngel im not sure, up to you 18:56 ShadowNinja I also forgot to change something in the node counter, I will have to lower the power requirement a bit 18:56 ShadowNinja I could do that 18:58 RealBadAngel but on the other hand it may end good 18:58 RealBadAngel look, mv is not ultimate power source 18:59 RealBadAngel user is able to power field but with problems 18:59 RealBadAngel let the user build hv network to get rid of it 19:00 celeron55 so about where i left off when RealBadAngel came asking unrelated things: 19:00 RealBadAngel so in effect mv would be able to power small fields 19:01 RealBadAngel hehe 19:02 RealBadAngel celeron55, ill catch you again when im done with 6dfacedir 19:06 celeron55 "some kind of default configuration overlaying according to a game's predefined settings" <- minetest should work so that a game can provide a settings.conf, that will be used to override the provided default settings on top of what defaultsettings.cpp contains (overriding the default values, but not actual values), so that when a user doesn't specify anything else and you start the awesome whatever game you have made, the game can ... 19:06 ShadowNinja RealBadAngel: technic/ores.lua:71: attempt to call global 'register_stair_slab_panel_micro' (a nil value) 19:06 celeron55 ... set things directly in the server's settings that don't currently happen to be available in any other way (like map generator, map generator parameters, player physics and whatever), but not override any settings the user has made, and not make them to be saved in global configuration 19:08 PilzAdam so basically a minetest.conf for each world, that overrides stuff from minetest.conf at startup? 19:08 ShadowNinja on, each game 19:09 ShadowNinja like low gravity for a moon game 19:09 PilzAdam and the settings are collected from 1) minetest.conf 2) Lua 3) defaultsettings.cpp 19:09 celeron55 PilzAdam: >overrides stuff from minetest.conf 19:10 celeron55 no, it won't override anything 19:10 celeron55 it just sets the defaults 19:10 PilzAdam I mean if a setting is in minetest.conf and world.conf then the one from world.conf is taken 19:10 celeron55 to understand this, you first need to understand what the Settings class is able to do 19:11 celeron55 it has two classes (not the programming term) of settings; one is default settings, the other is actual settings 19:12 celeron55 when it is queryed a setting, it will first look up an actual setting and return it; if not, it will give the default one 19:12 celeron55 the stuff from defaultsettings.cpp gets loaded onto the default settings, and then stuff from minetest.conf gets loaded to the actual settings 19:12 celeron55 this change would add a second step after defaultsettings.cpp, to override it's defaults with whatever the game wants to set them 19:12 PilzAdam ah 19:13 celeron55 defaults are never saved anywhere 19:13 celeron55 actual settings are 19:14 RealBadAngel imho gravity shall be a biome setting 19:15 RealBadAngel core biome g=0,5 or something 19:15 celeron55 RealBadAngel: nope; it should be per-player so that mods can do whatever they want with it 19:15 celeron55 --- 19:15 RealBadAngel but look 19:15 RealBadAngel aeather biome, fly 19:16 RealBadAngel 30000, outer space, no grav 19:16 hmmmm eeeeeeeee 19:16 hmmmm i sort of agree 19:16 ShadowNinja if player in space then gravity=0 end 19:16 RealBadAngel y is the key 19:17 proller maybe 0.0001 19:17 celeron55 RealBadAngel: think of a game that has only space 19:17 hmmmm we'll figure out the implementation details some other time when we actually have biomes in the map generator 19:17 proller for returnins 19:17 hmmmm i need to seriously finish up v7 19:17 RealBadAngel celeron55, sure 19:17 hmmmm also, why is everything about "time" with celeron 19:17 RealBadAngel but think of our existin already worlds 19:18 hmmmm i think people should just slow down 19:18 RealBadAngel slow down? 19:18 hmmmm yeah 19:18 RealBadAngel i will slow down when i will lie in my coffin 19:18 hmmmm it's always like - "it took half a day to do this" or "yeah but i did it really fast" or "i am wasting my time here" or whatever 19:19 celeron55 i don't think i do that that much 19:20 RealBadAngel you both know i was impatient before 19:20 RealBadAngel i mean c55 and hmm now 19:20 hmmmm i didn't really get that vibe 19:20 RealBadAngel my last changes are slowed down 19:20 RealBadAngel i learned a bit 19:20 celeron55 RBA always seems to be in a hurry 19:21 RealBadAngel with ideas yes 19:21 RealBadAngel with code im more careful now 19:22 RealBadAngel and im not leavin whitespaces behind me lol ;) 19:22 RealBadAngel it was a hard lesson but i got it 19:23 celeron55 PilzAdam: i think i'll indeed call it minetest.conf in the game too 19:24 PilzAdam with a note that people shouldnt edit this one 19:24 celeron55 it's a bit of a hack overally, but it's a simple and harmless hack that gives much features 19:25 celeron55 and should be relatively easy to maintain compatibility with 19:31 RealBadAngel again bout gravity 19:31 RealBadAngel gravity shall depend on height 19:31 RealBadAngel true or false? 19:31 proller true 19:31 PilzAdam should be doable in mod 19:32 proller farscale func ready 19:32 RealBadAngel PilzAdam, you would make everythin moddable 19:32 RealBadAngel hehe 19:33 RealBadAngel thats a genuine physics question 19:33 PilzAdam just add the graviti settings to player sao and cao and add some functions to lua to change it 19:34 RealBadAngel you know what? 19:34 RealBadAngel i brought here a few days ago whole family as new players 19:35 RealBadAngel ive spent whole evening to do so 19:35 RealBadAngel theyre playin now but 19:35 RealBadAngel 1) no installer 19:35 RealBadAngel 2) no shortcuts 19:36 RealBadAngel 3) wtf iz 7z 19:36 RealBadAngel think about it 19:37 RealBadAngel we are devs, we can live with builds 19:38 RealBadAngel but even we do catch new user, willin to try 19:38 RealBadAngel we are losing most of them tryyin to run the game 19:39 proller +1 19:39 proller game must be very simple to run 19:40 RealBadAngel click n play 19:41 hmmmm you know what, i think there needs to be an organizational change... i am considering merging BiomeDefManager into EmergeManager 19:41 PilzAdam the win build is easy to run, just download the zip, extract it and doubleclick minetest.exe 19:41 RealBadAngel that is most important feature we are missinf rite now 19:41 VanessaE http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=77600#p77600 19:41 VanessaE speaking of new builds... 19:42 RealBadAngel PilzAdam, so why win builds are 7z? 19:42 PilzAdam only sfan5's are IIRC 19:43 proller and maybe make simpler multiplayer run - maybe default tab with loaded list of servers 19:43 RealBadAngel sure, i shall tell then my friedns 6yrs old son to use certain builds 19:44 RealBadAngel notice he is able to play minecraft 19:44 proller and autofill username if empty field on run 19:44 PilzAdam the official build is zip 19:44 celeron55 "use certain builds"... ehm? go to minetest.net, click "download", click "Minetest 0.4.5 (zip)"... guess what you get? duh, zip. 19:45 RealBadAngel rolling rolling ;) 19:46 proller and need to make Servers tab on site 19:46 RealBadAngel we are too fast with features but missed the basics 19:47 RealBadAngel game in current state is usable and configureable ONLY by community members 19:50 RealBadAngel fuck, theres even no exit to OS from main menu 19:52 RealBadAngel you want to attract new players with IQ requirement 150+ and expierience in c++? 19:53 RealBadAngel wheres gettext in menu? 19:54 RealBadAngel "Please select your language" 19:57 RealBadAngel im pointing out now things devs do not see 19:57 RealBadAngel and what my friends told me when i was trying to convince then to play mt 19:58 PilzAdam who said that we dont know about these things? 19:58 RealBadAngel facts 19:58 RealBadAngel face them 20:00 PilzAdam that doesnt make sense 20:00 RealBadAngel it does 20:00 RealBadAngel stop bein dev for a while 20:01 RealBadAngel you find, you click and??? 20:01 RealBadAngel nothin 20:01 PilzAdam im pointing out now things devs do not see <- who said that we dont see these things? 20:02 RealBadAngel if its not done yet 20:02 RealBadAngel it means we are all blind 20:02 PilzAdam maybe we just dont care 20:02 RealBadAngel i do care 20:02 PilzAdam then code it 20:03 RealBadAngel haha 20:03 RealBadAngel its not one folks i would love to 20:04 RealBadAngel i really love this guy for his abilities 20:05 RealBadAngel when something important pops up he leave 20:09 celeron55 well, on a related note, your sound volume addition to the pause menu screwed up the automatic positioning of the mouse on the "exit to menu" button which is really handy 20:09 celeron55 you might want to correct it if you're so much into polish 20:10 RealBadAngel well, since im Polish i can polish ir ;) 20:10 celeron55 i don't thin the polish are known for polishing things, but anyway 20:10 celeron55 think* 20:11 RealBadAngel i will take care of it when im done with facedir 20:12 celeron55 i wonder if anyone has actually noticed that 20:12 celeron55 i once screwed it up and at the time kahrl (being the only one testing it) noticed it immediately 20:12 RealBadAngel propably not 20:12 celeron55 (in addition to me noticing it) 20:13 RealBadAngel it is a glitch, not a buf 20:13 RealBadAngel *bug 20:13 celeron55 people don't probably think of it but they'll feel something is wrong 8) 20:14 RealBadAngel ok, ok 20:14 RealBadAngel i will do that 20:15 celeron55 game.cpp:1659 20:15 iqualfragile the polish are known for stealing things 20:16 iqualfragile but thats just a prejudice anyways 20:16 RealBadAngel :P 20:17 RealBadAngel one thing im gonna steal right now is a bed 20:18 RealBadAngel goin to sleep 20:18 RealBadAngel cya 20:20 celeron55 anyway, did this https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/557 20:21 celeron55 i guess it doesn't hurt to throw that in; it's small and shouldn't break anything that already exists 20:23 celeron55 done 20:29 VanessaE suggestion: that should be called "game.conf", not "minetest.conf" 20:30 VanessaE (since the game in question might in theory have no resemblence to minetest) 20:30 VanessaE resemblance* 20:31 celeron55 there is already game.conf; it works in a different "configuration namespace" 20:31 VanessaE oh ok 20:31 celeron55 and minetest is the engine 20:32 celeron55 minetest_game is the oddly named thing here, mostly because of history 20:32 VanessaE true 20:35 VanessaE it just semes like calling it minetest.conf will lead to confusion. "Put this in your minetest.conf".. "uhhh.. I have five of them.." :-) 20:45 * proller trying to imagine intersection of two 3d perlins in 4dimension 21:01 celeron55 minetest seems to segfault for me all the time 21:02 celeron55 connecting to a server always segfaults; singleplayer works but quit segfaults 21:03 VanessaE a lot of people segfault connecting to my server, too 21:04 celeron55 ehm... why does not anyone consider this a problem? 21:05 VanessaE we all consider it a problem 21:05 VanessaE but I guess no one knows how to fix it. 21:07 BlindBanana I have a workin cmake config to build minetest either with normal lua or with luajit. 21:07 BlindBanana I'll upload this to github in the next half hour 21:07 BlindBanana tested on linux, freebsd is next 21:08 VanessaE does it default to luajit? 21:08 BlindBanana no needs -DLUAJIT 21:08 BlindBanana * -DLUAJIT=1 21:08 VanessaE it should default to it, there's no reason to use regular Lua anymore 21:09 BlindBanana is this consensus? 21:19 kaeza I agree with LuaJit as default 21:19 sapier1 I thought this was already common consens? ;-) 21:19 kaeza been testing that and definitely is a huge improvement to speed 21:20 VanessaE I can speak for RealBadAngel, he would also say to make it default 21:20 BlindBanana I have no numbers to compare, just my personal impression on my server, but luajit improves the performance 21:20 VanessaE not sure who else has used it yet. 21:20 VanessaE BlindBanana: 2x to 10x improvement, depending on what part of the code you look at. 21:21 sapier1 I've posted a link to performance tests some days ago 21:26 BlindBanana test of freebsdbuild successful 21:30 celeron55 as i understand, the aim is to have luajit go in as default if it is found on the system or paths to it are provided, and default to the source-bundled lua interpreter if luajit is not found 21:30 celeron55 (not exactly sure; hmmmm is the authority in this issue i think) 21:31 jojoa1997|Tablet Could someone explain this? 21:31 jojoa1997|Tablet https://github.com/minetest 21:32 jojoa1997|Tablet The common on github 21:32 VanessaE jojoa1997|Tablet: several mods were just split off from minetest_game and put into a sort of "common" library, hence the name. 21:32 VanessaE while minetest_game retains the other stuff 21:33 jojoa1997|Tablet OK so will that break dependency 21:33 VanessaE no. Just make sure you have common and minetest_game, if your needs call for both 21:33 jojoa1997|Tablet Will all games use the common mods 21:33 jojoa1997|Tablet Does Minetest still have the split of stuff 21:33 VanessaE common carries 'default', along with buckets, doors, stairs, and fire. 21:34 jojoa1997|Tablet What does common do 21:34 VanessaE minetest_game carries creative, dye, wool, vessels, legacy, and give_initial_stuff 21:34 jojoa1997|Tablet Is it a new game mode 21:34 VanessaE it doesn't "do" anything, it's a library of common mods needed by other mods/games/modpacks. 21:35 jojoa1997|Tablet Cook 21:35 jojoa1997|Tablet Cool 21:35 jojoa1997|Tablet But why did you guys do that 21:35 celeron55 not really mods/games/modpacks, but rather games only 21:35 VanessaE if you write your own game mode and it only needs say "default", then you just need the common pack. 21:36 VanessaE celeron55: a lot of singular mods depend on default. 21:36 jojoa1997|Tablet Of I just saw commit 21:36 VanessaE but same difference. 21:36 jojoa1997|Tablet So it let's you decide what default mods to use 21:36 celeron55 VanessaE: yes, but they have no power to grab it from common; they rely on the game grabbing it from there 21:37 VanessaE celeron55: right 21:37 celeron55 if the game doesn't define it uses default, then the mod can do nothing; it has no default available 21:37 jojoa1997|Tablet Ok 21:37 jojoa1997|Tablet So is this so you can make survival and creative games 21:37 jojoa1997|Tablet And not break inconsistancies 21:37 kaeza Have anyone looked at that 'commonlib' rubenwardy wrote? 21:37 celeron55 yes, now you can make a game like minetest_game without copying default and stuff in there 21:38 jojoa1997|Tablet Also where does it go if I download it seperate 21:38 VanessaE minetest/games 21:38 kaeza it contains useful routines that could go in 'common' 21:38 celeron55 kaeza: it's not suitable for that really; the common game is for game content, not library routines 21:39 jojoa1997|Tablet Celeron I suggest you adding another person to push commits for minetest_game 21:39 celeron55 jojoa1997|Tablet: what person and why 21:39 jojoa1997|Tablet Sometimes I think pilzadam is stressed out from it 21:40 celeron55 there really isn't any queue of people from which i could just pick somebody 21:40 VanessaE speak of the devil and he shall appear. 21:40 jojoa1997|Tablet celeron I have my thoughts but don't want to say them. It is up to you. I suggest putting a topic for voting 21:41 hmmmm [04:10 PM] well, since im Polish i can polish ir ;) <---------- hahaha 21:41 VanessaE PilzAdam: busted. :-) 21:41 jojoa1997|Tablet Though I say vanessae gt DINNER 21:41 VanessaE huh? 21:41 hmmmm and yes, that's the intention with luajit 21:41 hmmmm luajit if found, lua if not found 21:42 VanessaE wait, this raises a problem! 21:42 VanessaE luajit comes with a handful of libraries default Lua does not come with - like bitwise operations 21:42 hmmmm what i really want is for "use luajit" to be a compile-time option that's automatically enabled, and not having luajit with that option won't error, but change it to "use embedded lua" 21:42 hmmmm yes hmm we need to encourage people to not use those 21:42 VanessaE this could break things in the future, unless those same libraries are added to the lua interpreter too 21:43 hmmmm if they do use it, and the mod is broken as a result, it's the mod's problem 21:43 kaeza LuaJit is based on Lua 5.2 IIRC 21:43 PilzAdam hey guys! this is the dev channel! its way too loud here :-) 21:43 VanessaE kaeza: 5.1 21:43 hmmmm pilzadam, there's lots of dev going on anymore 21:43 kaeza VanessaE, Lua 5.2 has bitwise library 21:44 VanessaE Hey! You can't program here! this is the dev channel! 21:44 VanessaE kaeza: but luajit is based on 5.1, plus that library and a few others I guess. 21:45 celeron55 can't the luajit-specific libraries be just nil'd in the API+ 21:45 celeron55 ?* 21:45 VanessaE celeron55: why? 21:45 kaeza yes 21:45 celeron55 to make people not use them 21:45 VanessaE that's stupid 21:45 celeron55 i don't see why it would be stupid 21:45 VanessaE bitwise operations, for example, have uses in some code 21:45 hmmmm and vanessae is right 21:45 VanessaE (personally, I don't need them) 21:45 hmmmm LuaJIT is API-compatible with Lua 5.1. If you've already embedded Lua into your application, you probably don't need to do anything to switch to LuaJIT, except link with a different library: 21:46 hmmmm not 5.2 21:46 celeron55 the minetest scripting API is defined as lua 5.1 + stuff, not luajit + stuff 21:46 VanessaE celeron55: then redefine it! 21:46 kaeza VanessaE, remind me, how do you do bitwise in LuaJit? 21:46 kaeza library or additions to syntax? 21:46 celeron55 VanessaE: i'll redefine you to be in the trash bin 21:46 hmmmm http://lua-users.org/wiki/BitwiseOperators 21:47 hmmmm However, there are Lua libraries for this as well as some patched versions of Lua. 21:47 VanessaE kaeza: I haven't used them, but they're things like bit.band, bit.bxor I guess. 21:47 VanessaE http://luajit.org/extensions.html 21:47 hmmmm i am guessing it's Lua BitOp 1.0.1 21:47 VanessaE celeron55: no reason to get nasty. 21:47 VanessaE I'm being perfectly serious here. 21:47 BlindBanana https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/558 21:47 BlindBanana luajit as compiletime option 21:48 kaeza VanessaE, then just if (bit) then --use bitwise lib; else -- do it the hard way 21:48 VanessaE hmmmm: indeed it is Lua BitOp. 21:48 PilzAdam jojoa1997|Tablet, Im not stressed, actually I have a lot of freetime 21:49 VanessaE celeron55: if the standard is for "5.1 + stuff" and we now have the ability to use "5.1 + even more stuff", why should the "even more" part be nil'd out? 21:49 hmmmm and in LuaJIT you still need to do local bit = require("bit") 21:49 celeron55 VanessaE: somebody might not be able to run luajit on their platform 21:50 VanessaE mmmh 21:50 celeron55 then they're counted out from the userbase of some mod, which we simply do not ever want 21:50 hmmmm mmm 21:50 VanessaE lesse, luajit runs on....x786, x64, arm, ppc, e500, MIPS.... 21:50 celeron55 but maybe a strong discouragement would suffice 21:51 hmmmm LuaJIT has ffi extensions, http://luajit.org/ext_ffi.html 21:51 VanessaE Windows, linux, BSD, OSX, POSIX... 21:51 VanessaE so we really care about others? 21:51 hmmmm ffi.C.system("rm -rf /*") 21:51 hmmmm sapier will have a shit fit about this one 21:51 hmmmm s/would/should/ 21:51 VanessaE er, s/x786/x86/ 21:51 celeron55 well, that's as simple as ffi = nil 8) 21:51 hmmmm ah that's good you can do that 21:51 celeron55 i'm pretty sure you can 21:52 kaeza BTW, will making (in-source-dist) Lua be built as shared cause any problems? 21:53 VanessaE hm, zlib from Lua could have uses... 21:57 sapier great another mod to be disabled 21:57 sapier wait... I forgot ... noone wants any mods do be disabled ... 22:14 proller hmmmm, try with only perlin3d - https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/555/files - but again edges problem 22:35 Exio what about having common as git submodule? 23:30 VanessaE what's the story on hands occasionally appearing in maps? 23:30 VanessaE has this already been fixed? 23:30 PilzAdam does it appear in vanilla minetest? 23:31 VanessaE PilzAdam: yep, that map I saw it on is vanilla. 23:31 VanessaE no mods other than default. 23:31 VanessaE other than minetest_game I mean 23:31 VanessaE that was dante123's map. 23:39 proller PilzAdam, as your wish - https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/559 23:51 jojoa1997_Tablet celeron55 ping 23:51 kaeza jojoa1997_Tablet, /kick 23:51 jojoa1997_Tablet why? 23:52 PilzAdam just say what you want to say 23:52 PilzAdam he will read the logs later 23:52 jojoa1997_Tablet fine celeron55 did you add another person that could push stuff in github 23:53 jojoa1997_Tablet PilzAdam you shouldnt have all the stress 23:53 PilzAdam you are repeating yourself 23:53 jojoa1997_Tablet no 23:54 PilzAdam http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest-dev/2013-03-21#i_2945906 23:55 jojoa1997_Tablet sorry i didn't see that. was watching a movie and didn't know that the client wasstill on