Time  Nick         Message
02:46 hmmmm        you know i was just thinking, it makes more sense to have the flag be BLOCK_EMERGE_FLAG_GENERATE instead of not-generate
02:47 hmmmm        you can update the flags by ORing them together.. if peer #1 OR peer #2 OR ... OR peer #n wants it as BLOCK_EMERGE_FLAG_GENERATE, it'll be set
03:15 hmmmm        I think I should try making conlock smaller... it nearly _always_ takes ~35ms to acquire which is ridiculous
03:44 hmmmm        phooooooooooooey  https://github.com/kwolekr/minetest/commit/f7f3c5f4b9ef79b53f511b067d0b06bd003a0358
03:45 hmmmm        at this point in time, it won't be usable for multiplayer, and it definitely seems slower in general (but it's not) since it doesn't drop any blocks it was asked to generate (at this point)
03:51 VanessaE     nice
05:10 hmmmm        you know.. a lot of the data structures used in minetest aren't as appropriate as they could be
05:11 VanessaE     uh oh
05:11 VanessaE     <hmmmm>  Screw it.  I'm rewriting the whole engine in Ruby.
05:11 VanessaE     :-)
05:11 hmmmm        e.g.  a "queue" is actually a list with work you duplicated to "push" and "pop" things, std::map is used absolutely everywhere when it's really not necessary at all
05:11 hmmmm        Ruby, great choice, good luck too
05:11 VanessaE     sorry, just trying to be funny
05:12 hmmmm        so I encourage all core developers to PLEASE USE UNORDERED_MAP WHEN YOU DON'T NEED THE MAP TO BE ORDERED, PLEASE USE SET AND UNORDERED_SET WHEN YOU DON'T ACTUALLY NEED TO ASSOCIATE ANOTHER VALUE, AND PLEASE, FFS, STOP USING IRRLICHT CONTAINERS
05:12 hmmmm        holy shit
05:13 VanessaE     heh
11:25 Taoki        Looking into learning Inskape a bit. This made me curious: Is there any chance that support for svg textures could be added to MineTest? Considering the blocky and simple design, this sounds like something that would fit and be useful
12:49 celeron55    it's not MineTest
12:49 celeron55    it's Minetest
12:49 Kray         CamelCase
12:49 celeron55    MineTest is just god-awful
12:49 celeron55    GodAwful
12:49 celeron55    8D
13:10 dzho         you can call it MineTest so that you can use CamelCase in a DesertBiome
13:11 darkrose     MINETEST, because uppercase is more awesome... and also what menulogo.png uses
13:17 Kray         iTest
13:17 Kray         iMine
13:27 * celeron55  grins in amusement to hmmm's latest rant
13:31 celeron55    how stable is the new movement code?
13:33 celeron55    i promised to whack up a release this week and as upstream appears to have mostly followed the feature freeze (either accidentally or on purpose), i'll make that happen
13:39 darkrose     there was a feature freeze?
13:39 celeron55    this could be a suitable time to roll out the 0.3 security fix too, assuming someone is interested in doing the little extra communication about it (which is, shout at the debian and ubuntu package maintainers)
13:39 celeron55    darkrose: yes, mentioned only on this channel
13:41 celeron55    about a week ago i guess
13:42 darkrose     movement code seems pretty good, works for those who've tried it anyway
13:49 celeron55    if somebody wants to, they could try doing http://dev.minetest.net/Releasing_Minetest
13:51 celeron55    or, well, not try, but do it
14:06 darkrose     I can bump the version and tag it, can't do a windows build, or your blog post though
14:16 celeron55    i won't probably do a windows build either; too lazy to cobble up curl and possibly gettext for it
14:20 darkrose     hmmmm: able to do a windows build at all?
14:20 hmmmm        no
14:20 hmmmm        i stopped doing windows builds a while ago
14:20 hmmmm        but the good news is that i installed mac os x 10.8 the other day, i intend to get a build and testing environment on that perhaps
14:21 celeron55    = too lazy, never
14:21 celeron55    8)
14:22 darkrose     I don't have access to windows
14:23 darkrose     should I push the tags, and then we just have to volounteer someone for the windows build?
14:24 hmmmm        thexyz and plizadam are able to do windows builds
14:24 hmmmm        i'd rather wait for them to come on
14:25 celeron55    maybe i'll just post that we're too lazy to do releases, download your stuff from these forum threads when you feel like it"
14:25 celeron55    -"
14:25 celeron55    8D
14:26 celeron55    i guess linux distros like releases
14:26 celeron55    and server operators
14:30 darkrose     it's not laziness, it's a "rolling release"
14:32 celeron55    we'd still need to set a different version number when the protocol has an incompatible change, but it wouldn't really require anything else
14:33 celeron55    still there should be a more official "builds" page with some kind of a way for multiple people to update it
14:37 RealBadAngel hi
14:37 RealBadAngel i made 6 directional + rotations facedir
14:38 RealBadAngel now the question: enhance old one and keep the facedir name
14:38 RealBadAngel or introduce new one
14:39 RealBadAngel please note when im using old one and the name all old code and mods is working
14:41 RealBadAngel just the definition changes: facedir means the direction top of the node is facing
14:42 RealBadAngel old facedir is 1/6 cases of rotations over y+
14:42 RealBadAngel celeron55, any comments?
15:45 celeron55    RealBadAngel: that didn't really explain what you have done
15:46 RealBadAngel old facedir is only rotation over Y+
15:46 RealBadAngel top facing Y+ direction, and four rotations
15:46 RealBadAngel got it?
15:47 celeron55    what if you want an upside-down node pointing to X-
15:47 celeron55    8)
15:47 RealBadAngel ive added y-, x+, x-, z+, z-
15:47 VanessaE     in short, he's added the ability to rotate around all three axes.
15:47 RealBadAngel facedir is now a value in range 0-23
15:47 RealBadAngel divide it by 4 to get direction
15:48 celeron55    is the code fast?
15:48 RealBadAngel module is the rotatation
15:48 RealBadAngel same as yours
15:48 RealBadAngel only not ifs just switch case
15:48 RealBadAngel to define textures roatations
15:49 RealBadAngel *modulo
15:49 RealBadAngel lemme show you core code
15:49 celeron55    by the way, are you not able to construct proper sentences on a single line?
15:49 celeron55    because
15:49 celeron55    reading this
15:49 celeron55    is
15:49 celeron55    fucking painful
15:50 celeron55    in any case, there are, i think, exactly two things i am concerned about
15:50 RealBadAngel http://pastebin.com/Kib3HkzT
15:51 celeron55    1) the original facedir was intended to be used so that it can exist with other data in the parameter, consuming only few bits
15:51 celeron55    s/the original/originally/
15:51 celeron55    2) if it is modified or a new thing is added, it should be made sure it really does do everything that is needed in the future
15:51 RealBadAngel old 3 bits, new one 6 bits
15:51 celeron55    because it is data that is saved on disk
15:52 RealBadAngel code is propably a bit faster than original one
15:53 celeron55    why aren't you using else ifs
15:54 RealBadAngel it will speed up the code?
15:54 RealBadAngel if so, no problemo can add "else" there
15:55 RealBadAngel but im not quite sure
15:55 celeron55    ehm... the only reason for it not speeding up the code is if the compiler is perfect at optimizing; altough the string concatenation is thousands of times slower than comparing an integer six times
15:56 RealBadAngel so i will make switch inside then
15:56 celeron55    so i don't really care; this is something hmmmm would point out 8)
15:56 proller      i want to use http://jsoncpp.sourceforge.net/ for anounces to new masterserver and building in game server list, is this good idea?
15:57 RealBadAngel you know its not so important
15:58 RealBadAngel moreover
15:58 RealBadAngel if textures wasnt rotated on the very start
15:58 RealBadAngel to fit just one case
15:58 RealBadAngel the whole code would be much simpler
15:59 celeron55    did you read what i said about your writing style?
15:59 celeron55    i'm not even going to answer anything written like that anymore
16:00 RealBadAngel hold on
16:00 RealBadAngel what the heck youre refering to now? if-elseif?
16:00 RealBadAngel i copied in this very routine original style
16:01 celeron55    lol
16:01 celeron55    i am talking about how you write on IRC
16:01 RealBadAngel ah
16:01 RealBadAngel sorry
16:02 RealBadAngel please forgive me
16:02 celeron55    proller: i hope somebody has some idea about this master server thing and answers you, because i don't have
16:02 RealBadAngel this time i wanted to change it and started to ask for opinions
16:02 RealBadAngel on what should i do
16:03 proller      celeron55, i want to port jsoncpp into src/json
16:04 RealBadAngel celeron55, please take on account today is my birthday and give me some more credits :)
16:04 celeron55    RealBadAngel: anyway, as long as it is perfectly backwards-compatible and performs equally well in the same things that it did before; i don't care
16:05 RealBadAngel it is
16:05 RealBadAngel have you checked pastebin?
16:05 celeron55    but somebody else has to judge if it is suitable for upstream
16:06 RealBadAngel i defined rotations such way, that old facedir is one of 6 cases of new one
16:06 RealBadAngel only thing should change is the facedir definition
16:07 RealBadAngel facedir = direction in which top face of the node is pointing
16:07 celeron55    proller: i guess you can do that
16:08 proller      ok, i already do
16:08 RealBadAngel facedir/4 = direction, modulo = rotation over this direction
16:08 celeron55    proller: are you working with somebody on the thing, or is it completely your own?
16:10 proller      mine, idea here, http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=4780 , will pull when ready
16:11 celeron55    okay; i guess that was planned somewhaat at some point 8)
16:11 celeron55    -a
16:13 RealBadAngel celeron55, i will publish the code tommorow so you will be able to check it out
16:13 RealBadAngel now im goin off to get drunk. im turnin 40 today
16:13 RealBadAngel c ya all
16:14 darkrose     using a simple csv format would reduce the data sent and processed, alternatively just use % encoded name/value pairs and the stored data would be exactly the same as the http post entity, either would result in less processing
16:14 celeron55    lol, i won't check it; but somebody will
16:15 RealBadAngel no problemo
16:15 F00          Erk.
16:15 F00          Mering the physics changes into master seems... premature.
16:15 RealBadAngel i could make it way faster if i could drop manner of predefined texture rotations
16:15 RealBadAngel but its not a problem
16:16 celeron55    darkrose: i don't think using other than json for text formats makes much sense these days
16:16 F00          At present if you fast move up a ladder, you shoot ten blocks off the top of it. Also, you seem to need dozens of ladders to stop a fall from being lethal from any significant height.
16:16 celeron55    doing it that way makes it well interoperable with all modern web stuff
16:16 F00          Deceleration curve is also massively different depending on whether fast move is enabled or not.
16:17 celeron55    F00: lol, i'd call that "Taoki-grade" stuff
16:18 PilzAdam     F00, it works at least as good as the old system
16:18 F00          I call shooting ten blocks off of a ladder 'bad'.
16:18 RealBadAngel call it as you wish, but with her changes game plays amazing
16:18 F00          The same with not being able to stop yourself with a block or two of ladder/water.
16:19 F00          It may be unrealistic, but that change breaks pretty much every mine shaft/elevator going
16:19 darkrose     they already broke doors, why not break mineshafts too?
16:19 PilzAdam     F00, ehm, thats not a valid point for me
16:20 darkrose     celeron55: I'm just not a fan of json for anything that isn't javascript
16:20 F00          Inertia in water and fast move for climbing/swimming is great, shooting off of ladders and not being able to stop a lethal fall easily are not.
16:20 F00          Also, try the fast move deceleration
16:20 F00          It's like slipping around wearing teflon shoes on ice
16:20 F00          Er
16:20 F00          The non-fast-move decel, I mean.
16:20 F00          (From fast move speed)
16:21 celeron55    darkrose: the alternative really is XML, and... well, that one is bad
16:21 F00          It also applies to vertical, it seems.
16:21 RealBadAngel since when irl youre movin fast, or prevent fallin down to not splash yourelf down there easily?
16:22 F00          Let's see. Ladder stops at 361 y - fast move shoots me to 372.
16:22 VanessaE     F00: these features are intentional
16:22 F00          If I don't hold fast move, I slide down the ladder until 351 y
16:22 F00          If I do hold fast move, I stop decelerating at 359 y.
16:23 VanessaE     except I doubt she meant for you to fly off the top of a ladder, but everything else is intentional
16:23 F00          Having a massively different decel curve is... aggravating
16:23 VanessaE     trick:  hold E after you let go of W.
16:23 VanessaE     you'll come to a halt immediatley.
16:23 F00          Yeah, but that trick shouldn't be necessary
16:23 VanessaE     immediately*
16:23 celeron55    lol
16:24 celeron55    yeah i guess i'll just leave and let you completely screw up minetest
16:24 celeron55    that's what keeps people happy and gets rid of the userbase so everything can be just shut down
16:24 RealBadAngel i can see anythin what changes former behaviour is an enemy
16:24 F00          Hitting a ladder after falling 10 blocks should not propel you down a ladder 10 blocks further.
16:24 F00          No, I'm not saying that.
16:24 F00          Fast move in water and for climbing is fantastic. That will please tons of people.
16:25 PilzAdam     the new movement system is realistic
16:25 celeron55    "realistic" is *never* a thing i want from a game
16:25 F00          celeron55: Agreed!
16:25 celeron55    if a game says it's realistic, i'll go a different way
16:25 celeron55    such is simply not worth playing
16:25 F00          Personally I enjoy falling 25 meters and not dying
16:25 RealBadAngel semi-realistic is the right description
16:25 celeron55    of course, it could be right for minetest - but then minetest is not right for me
16:25 F00          As well as being able to carry around 3200 m^3 of goods on my person
16:26 VanessaE     celeron55: how do you reconcile that with the fact that you don't play minetest anymore?
16:26 PilzAdam     but realistic means that players really get what they expect when moving
16:26 VanessaE     (the first part, re: "completely screwing up" the game)
16:26 celeron55    VanessaE: in such a way that i usually try to keep from interfering with you or anyone else
16:26 celeron55    or with minetest
16:27 F00          I don't think there was anything wrong with the old decel curve. Back before anti-cheat I used to fly around at 160 nodes/s and it decel'd me adequately
16:27 F00          Felt more like real air resistance than the current non-fast-move does, certainly
16:28 VanessaE     celeron55: I could cite a few things where that wasn't the case, to be blunt.
16:28 RealBadAngel F00, all settings are in config
16:28 RealBadAngel feel free to define your own world
16:28 celeron55    VanessaE: i am talking about this because there is one thing that still is dependent of me: releases
16:29 celeron55    VanessaE: and this feature was added while a semi-official feature freeze was going on
16:29 F00          My feeling is that certain mechanics (like stopping a fall with a ladder/bucket of water) along with sneak elevators are physics bugs that have been adopted by the majority of the player base.
16:29 Calinou      there are some physics bugs, yes
16:29 celeron55    VanessaE: so i need to determine whether this needs fixing or not
16:29 F00          And that it's bad to change that without asking the community what it wants.
16:29 Calinou      and the physics tweaks made them more obvious
16:29 Calinou      F00: mark shuttleworth says the same thing
16:29 VanessaE     celeron55: apparently hardly anyone was aware of the feature freeze
16:30 celeron55    VanessaE: true, but quite irrelevant
16:30 F00          Since there's no ceiling on falling speed, the current physics actually make it nigh impossible to definitively stop a fall from killing a player
16:30 PilzAdam     F00, actually there are some forum topics about the movement branch of Taoki and a win32 to get more people testing
16:30 PilzAdam     +build
16:31 VanessaE     F00: Taoki did some of her testing via my server in fact.
16:31 celeron55    VanessaE: i can list people who were talking on the channel at the time: hmmmm, thexyz, PilzAdam, Jordach, Calinou; and hmmmm agreed to it
16:31 celeron55    VanessaE: so it wasn't exactly anything that hidden
16:32 VanessaE     then it was evidently forgotten.
16:32 celeron55    not really; darkrose merged the stuff and she wasn't here at that time
16:32 PilzAdam     what about creating a branch for a feature-freeze?
16:33 PilzAdam     so normal development can go on
16:33 celeron55    no; too much work
16:33 Jordach      celeron55, agreed to what?
16:33 celeron55    Jordach: nothing significant
16:33 Jordach      alrighty.
16:34 celeron55    i suggest we just whip up a release at some time
16:34 celeron55    but maybe not this time
16:34 celeron55    sometime when thexyz is around, maybe
16:35 PilzAdam     I would wait until the ttf patch gets merged, its really necessary to get many languages working
16:35 RealBadAngel i thought we are waitin for some more hmmm's work to be done
16:35 RealBadAngel like emerge thread
16:35 celeron55    RealBadAngel: that's not how you do releases
16:35 celeron55    the best time to do a release is just before adding considerable things, not after it
16:35 * F00        did another test.
16:36 PilzAdam     the only thing that is missing for ttf is a good font
16:36 F00          Fell 39 blocks onto ladder. Slid 36 blocks down the ladder.
16:36 RealBadAngel propably youre right, sorry
16:36 VanessaE     PilzAdam: What's wrong with Liberation Sans?
16:36 PilzAdam     its too big
16:36 VanessaE     too big?
16:36 Calinou      no need for a different font to make it smaller
16:36 * Calinou    suggests: font size configurability
16:36 celeron55    RealBadAngel: it's boring for the developers, but it keeps everyone happy and non-stressed, and the releases are actually stable then
16:36 PilzAdam     its a monospaced font
16:36 VanessaE     um, no it isn't.
16:37 thexyz       I am.
16:37 VanessaE     that's Liberation Sans Mono
16:37 VanessaE     there are two.
16:37 RealBadAngel celeron55, im not goin to hurry with facedirs neither, its way to big change for me alone to decide
16:37 RealBadAngel *too
16:38 celeron55    thexyz: 1) ttf?, 2) is there a problem in making a release exactly now?, 3) will you build an official windows release build if we release now?
16:38 VanessaE     er, 'scuse me, I guess they call them Liberation Sans and Liberation Mono.  either way.
16:38 thexyz       VanessaE: my truetype branch uses Liberation Sans Mono by default
16:38 thexyz       or, yes, Liberation Mono
16:39 RealBadAngel some of the developers even suggested drop the name "facedir". i defended it for sake of backwards compability
16:39 thexyz       celeron55: 1) why not; 2) ttf? 3) sure
16:40 celeron55    thexyz: is ttf tested well on all OSes by now?
16:41 F00          Oh god.
16:41 F00          The deceleration isn't a curve
16:41 F00          It's linear.
16:41 F00          I just fell 81 blocks and took 78 blocks to slide to a stop.
16:41 celeron55    it was linear before too
16:41 F00          Really?
16:41 VanessaE     F00: so fix it?
16:41 F00          It must have been very steep, then.
16:41 thexyz       celeron55: linux, windows, wine
16:41 thexyz       don't have mac to test on
16:41 thexyz       same for *bsd
16:41 PilzAdam     thexyz, https://github.com/PilzAdam/minetest/commit/ttf
16:42 F00          I don't really have any opinions on fixing it, aside from 'sliding as far down a ladder as you've fallen is awful'
16:42 F00          And since that seems to go against consensus, I'm  just going to revert it locally
16:42 celeron55    thexyz: i think it isn't really wise to put it now in upstream; wiser would be to release, and then put it, so it can mature for a good while
16:42 F00          *as far
16:43 thexyz       celeron55: probably
16:43 celeron55    thexyz: if you think otherwise, then you're free to do otherwise
16:43 VanessaE     it seems to me there are a few bugs that can at least be trivially fixed before 0.4.5 goes out the door (little stuff like disabling texture atlas by default)
16:43 PilzAdam     I actually would agree to put it upstream before realesing
16:43 RealBadAngel me too
16:44 PilzAdam     since we have Chinese and other languages translated already, and they will simply not work
16:44 celeron55    then we will move the feature freeze to a new point of time, and i request everyone to be damn sure to have everything in that they intend to
16:44 celeron55    VanessaE's suggestions should NOT be done at the point of release, but many days before it
16:45 celeron55    it's completely unproductive to note those at the time of release
16:45 VanessaE     celeron55: this was suggested at least a couple of weeks ago, just not officially.
16:45 VanessaE     and not by me initially, either
16:45 RealBadAngel this is long known bug
16:45 Calinou      is there any reason not to merge this: https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/pull/409 (sorry for pointing at this 5 times or so but I'd like this to be merged in.)
16:46 VanessaE     I've lost count of the number of people I've told to disable their texture atlas which fixed their problem
16:46 RealBadAngel nobody shall demand fixing it in any point of time, that just should be done asap
16:46 VanessaE     (and yes, I know my grammar sucked in that sentence)
16:46 RealBadAngel no matter project timelines
16:47 celeron55    so on what day are we going to have a feature freeze for real, and when after that should a release be made?
16:47 RealBadAngel timelines are for adding new stuff, evolving. not the bugfixes. those shall be done and merged instantly
16:47 celeron55    i don't care about when, as long as it is marked down and people actually act accordingly
16:47 VanessaE     ok how about this:
16:48 Jordach      go on.
16:49 RealBadAngel celeron55, have you noticed logging to the disk slows down game by more than half?
16:49 * darkrose   sends VanessaE a SIGCONT
16:49 VanessaE     start the feature freeze on Monday.  Bug freeze in two weeks - whatever is not actively being fixed and pushed by then gets left out.  For the two weeks following that, fix bugs that were introduced in the previous two-three weeks during the freeze.
16:49 celeron55    RealBadAngel: why are you asking me?
16:49 VanessaE     release 0.4.5 four or five weeks from today
16:49 celeron55    RealBadAngel: it's not like i play it
16:49 VanessaE     then continue the usual development process after that
16:49 celeron55    VanessaE: eh weeks? it should be 0.4.6 by then
16:49 RealBadAngel because its so simple and stupid stuff not released yet that you wouldnt believe
16:50 RealBadAngel hmms got it ready
16:50 VanessaE     celeron55: as a core dev, you of all people know how long it can take to hunt down and fix some random obscure bug.
16:50 VanessaE     so then call it 0.4.6, I don't really care *what* you call it.
16:50 RealBadAngel folks have been reporting this issue
16:50 VanessaE     0.4.5 was just a suggestion, but releasing 0.4.5 NOW is not appropriate.
16:51 celeron55    RealBadAngel: yes, and? don't waste your time telling it to me; tell it to somebody who actually can verify it, and merge it
16:51 RealBadAngel hmmm is having this rdy
16:52 celeron55    VanessaE: 0.4.5 is the next one; if it isn't now, then that doesn't change; but my opinion is that 0.4.5 should've gone out a month ago :P
16:52 Jordach      i actually agree with celeron55
16:52 VanessaE     celeron55: well maybe if you put it *that* way sure
16:52 RealBadAngel https://github.com/kwolekr/minetest/commit/3ff37437463cbfb6d5413d3a23df6f9b8532638c
16:52 Jordach      and we *dont* want to fragment the userbase from stable -> non-stable
16:52 VanessaE     I'm just saying a version bump now might be the wrong time - i.e. it's too late
16:52 VanessaE     (or too early depending on your point of view)
16:53 RealBadAngel thx to it i do have 50fps instead of 25
16:53 RealBadAngel ofc i knew how to disable it before
16:53 RealBadAngel point is that players didnt
16:54 hmmmm        is the feature freeze in effect _right now_?
16:54 celeron55    but really; please somebody have enough of producer mentality to do this stuff without me shouting to everyone
16:54 celeron55    hmmmm: it was removed because apparently it isn't appropriate...
16:55 hmmmm        well i didn't yet add in the debug log level setting
16:55 RealBadAngel im using it already ;)
16:55 celeron55    everyone gets only a fraction of the value out of their work if no releases are made
16:55 celeron55    so work towards that happening
16:55 hmmmm        wouldn't you like to merge that in?
16:55 RealBadAngel absolutely
16:55 darkrose     release now, if it's bad 0.4.6 can go out at the end of the month
16:56 celeron55    0.4.x+1 releases can be even once per half an hour if needed
16:56 hmmmm        i'm sure it'd make a lot of people happy to not require a shortcut to run minetest without extra-verbose debugging logs
16:56 RealBadAngel lets make then it in cycles
16:56 * Taoki      reads up part of the chat. Wonders why people are being upset about
16:57 RealBadAngel weeks 1-3 code, 4th freeze, start of next release
16:57 Taoki        I'm very ha[ppy with the fact that new features and pull requests are being merged quickly now. MineTest advanced a lot recently thanks to that :)
16:58 hmmmm        so what's the final verdict?
16:58 RealBadAngel and in week of freeze only bugfixes allowed
16:59 RealBadAngel no new code
16:59 celeron55    hmmmm: if you ask me, i still think a release should be made right now so people can start merging bigger things without fearing everything going bad
16:59 darkrose     better to release now and have a recent stable, then to delay a few weeks and have players wonder which version of 0.4.4 a server is using
16:59 Taoki        I agree with new releases being made frequently, so everyone can get the latest changes
16:59 RealBadAngel celeron55, but the question will back in some time again
16:59 celeron55    the changelog from 0.4.4 already is like multiple pages long; way longer than 0.4.3->0.4.4
16:59 hmmmm        sure, that's fine by me.  i really couldn't care either way, the people who wanted this feature the most already have access to it
16:59 RealBadAngel lets make schedules
17:00 hmmmm        i sound bad in the changelogs because my changes aren't visible
17:00 Taoki        celeron55: Not sure if you're upset about my new physics. But I recomment trying them out, I'm sure anyone has to like them. It's a lot better to dive in water as you fall, rather than simply having your velocity disappear. Also, air acceleration wasn't removed... just slowed down so it doesn't feel as ugly and like you can walk on air.
17:01 Taoki        I think anyone can agree it feels a lot nicer now. IMO MineTest could never be complete without improvements like this
17:01 RealBadAngel I agree, those changes have to be "felt" and played
17:01 hmmmm        are the physics like minecraft?
17:01 RealBadAngel no
17:01 Taoki        hmmmm: Possibly. I didn't compare them up close
17:01 hmmmm        yeah, that would break some things... mob traps in particular
17:01 Taoki        Sinking in water is in MineCraft too. But I didn't put it in MineTest because of that, but because it's normal :P
17:02 RealBadAngel hmmm, set the gravity to low
17:02 Taoki        normal != realistic necessarily
17:02 hmmmm        i really hope there's an option to disable this
17:02 RealBadAngel and jump on the top of big sequoia, FUN!
17:02 Taoki        hmmmm: All new physics can be configured in minetest.conf. If anyone would want the old behavior they can do that with the current code
17:02 RealBadAngel set the gravity just
17:02 RealBadAngel default is 9,81
17:02 celeron55    ehm... so do the changes change the gravity to such as in MC?
17:02 RealBadAngel is this familiar value? :)
17:02 celeron55    well that is just horrible
17:03 Taoki        eg: You can set movement_water_fluidity_smooth to a high number, which should disable diving in water and work similar to before. But why would anyone want that :P
17:03 hmmmm        again, for resetting falls
17:03 Taoki        celeron55: Default gravity hasn't been changed. Only change to gravity is that it can be configured in minetest.conf
17:04 Taoki        And no, I did not open MineCraft in one window and MineTest in the other, and copy everything I saw in MC. The physics changes were done without any MineCraft reference. If MC didn't exist and only MT did, I would have done them the exact same way
17:04 RealBadAngel but when it could be changed, imagine on far y+ outer space
17:04 hmmmm        nobody cares if they're the same as minecraft or not
17:04 RealBadAngel or moon biomes
17:04 hmmmm        it's just be nice to know if it is or isn't
17:04 Taoki        Personally I don't. But it is a legit concern that MT might become too much like MC. Not my aim though
17:05 RealBadAngel on the opposite heavy gravity close to the core
17:05 hmmmm        that's not a legitimate concern
17:05 F00          I rather suspect that falling x blocks in Minecraft doesn't make you slide max(0, x-3) down a ladder.
17:05 hmmmm        i hate it when people complain about that
17:05 Taoki        HOWEVER: If a good feature exists in MineCraft (and other projects), I'm not going to say "never do this in MineTest cuz MineCraft has it too, so we'd be copying it"
17:05 hmmmm        minetest is an open source minecraft clone
17:05 hmmmm        people reasonably expect the same game mechanics
17:05 RealBadAngel and yet mc copies mt ideas
17:05 Taoki        One example are mined items dropping to the ground instead of going to inventory: MC has that, but I'd like it in MT simply because it feels more right
17:06 RealBadAngel they dropped texture atlas
17:06 RealBadAngel splitted server and client
17:06 Taoki        If Mc didn't have mined items falling to ground, I'd still want that in MT never the less
17:06 RealBadAngel me too
17:07 RealBadAngel because of technic tools, explosives and mining machines
17:07 hmmmm        well now that torches fall when they're not attached to a block, it only feels right if you can pick them up by moving close to it
17:07 hmmmm        instead of having to point and click
17:07 Taoki        celeron55: But really, try out my physics changes. Nothing there copies MineCraft that I'm aware of, nor changes functionality in any bad way. Also, the new settings would allow functionality almost exactly like the physics before it, if someone wants the old ones on their server
17:07 hmmmm        i feel like at least that much should be added
17:07 Taoki        Except for Y smoothing which always happens now, and vertical acceleration works the same as horizontal one
17:09 celeron55    Taoki: by the way, try going up the full length of ladders fast in an open space
17:09 celeron55    upwards
17:09 celeron55    8)
17:09 celeron55    then try to not get hurt
17:09 F00          I think the speed peaks in only a few blocks.
17:09 Taoki        Yes, fast climbing is possible now. But Fast itself is an exception (eg: A special permission for some players). So it's as realistic as running fast on the ground :P
17:09 Taoki        Yeah, falling damage is the same. If Fast isn't used properly you can get hurt
17:10 F00          Many servers provide fast by default, if not fly (that may change with noclip)
17:10 Taoki        But it's just an optional new possibility. Previously you couldn't use fast on ladders or underwater
17:10 F00          It's not really feasible to move around a 62000^3 world at 4 nodes/s
17:10 Taoki        One nice thing about Fast in water: You can now jump up like a dolphin, or ride on the water's surface like a jet boat. It's very fun ^_^
17:12 Taoki        Which BTW, is not something you can do in MineCraft.
17:14 Taoki        It's not perfect of course, no code is. eg: Like you said, using Fast on ladders can get you hurt due to fall damage. Then again, using Fast can easily get you hurt as well, since you have less control and can fly off a cliff before you know it (happens often to me)
17:14 RealBadAngel btw, what about fly and swim animations?
17:14 Taoki        RealBadAngel: Can be done and I should look into it
17:15 Taoki        BTW, something else that might be useful which my physics does: Try using Fast and Sneak at the same time. You will get the Fast velocity and acceleration, but can't fall of nodes. That's a neat little trick (I noticed it but considered it's great)
17:15 VanessaE     *scrolls back*
17:15 Taoki        If you need to go fast without the fear of falling
17:15 RealBadAngel and one thing i noticed lately, step sounds when flyin or swimming shall not be played
17:15 Taoki        Yeah, can be fixed separately
17:16 RealBadAngel hi Jeija
17:17 Jeija        Hi RealBadAngel, hi everyone
17:17 Taoki        hi
17:17 RealBadAngel Jeija, im ready with nodes, now defining nodeboxes roatations
17:18 RealBadAngel so definitely will be ready very soon
17:18 Jeija        Sounds good, have you published it yet?
17:18 Taoki        RealBadAngel: Sounds awesome, can't wait
17:19 RealBadAngel as i promised, i will publish it today with new branch
17:19 RealBadAngel i got nodes well tested already
17:19 PilzAdam     thexyz, I have added a LiberationSans.ttf and added the ability to make the size configureable
17:19 PilzAdam     https://github.com/PilzAdam/minetest/commit/4a97c646fdff8a0eb4cff28c50a9164000959788
17:20 RealBadAngel but one thing shall be added to minetest game
17:20 PilzAdam     but it seems like the font breaks the "TAPE AND GLUE" and "SERVER" strings at the side of the main gui
17:20 RealBadAngel screwdriver shall become default tool
17:20 Jeija        I just pushed my curl for lua branch: http://bit.ly/X7CU9W ; Allows you to download stuff from within lua
17:21 RealBadAngel for those who dont know it yet, a tool to rotate nodes that use facedir
17:22 Taoki        BTW: What does everyone think about adding svg texture support (if that would be possible in Irrlicht)? Vector graphics could match the simplistic theme of MT very nicely, for custom games or mods
17:22 Jordach      Taoki, no, just no
17:22 Taoki        Why not though?
17:22 Jordach      because .svg can contain viruses
17:23 Jordach      (and has been known to)
17:23 Taoki        lol
17:23 VanessaE     if you have a problem with viruses in svg, I blame your SVG library
17:23 Taoki        That is kind of a silly reason. Any file can contain viruses
17:23 RealBadAngel lua mods too ;)
17:23 Jeija        SVG support sounds good to me if it is not too much work and too much code.
17:24 thexyz       hm.. PilzAdam, any idea why?
17:24 RealBadAngel even well written LOGO treegen axiom could hang your PC ;)
17:24 PilzAdam     thexyz, I tried different text aligns but it doesnt help, only the first char is printed
17:29 VanessaE     I'm sure Gambit would love SVG support.  Seems his minetoon texture pack would be well-suited to that format
17:34 PilzAdam     thexyz, it works with wordWrap enabled
17:35 PilzAdam     this works now: https://github.com/PilzAdam/minetest/commit/926b3caa639fd331cd7c1717aec7fca21dfd8d42
17:40 thexyz       PilzAdam: great
17:40 thexyz       can you merge it (with all your fixes)?
17:40 PilzAdam     sure
17:47 PilzAdam     done
17:50 thexyz       great
18:07 PilzAdam     well, fuck
18:07 PilzAdam     win32 build is broken
18:08 PilzAdam     the unittest fail (they also did before, but now other unittest fail) and with --disable-unittests builtin throws some errors
18:10 thexyz       are you sure you're building "release" version?
18:11 PilzAdam     oh.....
18:11 PilzAdam     I had this setting set for some testing....
18:12 thexyz       well, that should be obvious, "release" doesn't run any unit tests by default
18:12 thexyz       anyway, care to pastebin that error?
18:13 PilzAdam     https://gist.github.com/PilzAdam/4954879
18:14 hmmmm        i should put some time into finding out why that unit test fails and probably fix it someday
18:15 thexyz       odd
18:15 hmmmm        so can anybody explain http://pastebin.com/Kib3HkzT to me?
18:19 celeron55    it is an extension of this https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/blob/master/src/mapblock_mesh.cpp#L587
18:20 celeron55    it's a relatively horrible hack from the ground up
18:20 hmmmm        that code is quite a bit more reasonable though
18:20 hmmmm        i don't mean to be elitist, but minetest code should meet or exceed commercial quality
18:20 celeron55    the original content of that function ends at "If not rotated or is side tile, we're done"
18:21 celeron55    then i once hackily extended it with that texture modifier crap to rotate the top and bottom of a node when the node is rotated with facedir
18:22 celeron55    it should really be done at the vertex level in... somewhere else
18:22 celeron55    and RBA's stuff implements an extended facedir with the same thing (altough he replaces the few tricks in that with even more texture modifiers)
18:24 celeron55    i am not sure if i need to say this, but the texture modifiers in that is... well, it's not really a thing to allow anyone to extend in any way, now that i think of it
18:25 hmmmm        so what do the (0,0,0) directions do exactly?
18:25 hmmmm        is that just nothing?
18:26 celeron55    it's kahrl's code
18:26 celeron55    i'm not... exactly sure
18:26 hmmmm        his code is kind of... interesting to say the least.
18:27 celeron55    i think it like hashes the integer unit direction
18:27 celeron55    for the table lookup, like it says
18:27 celeron55    so it's the kind of performance stuff you should actually like
18:27 hmmmm        i just wonder if it could be done a better way
18:28 hmmmm        getTileInfo() sucks too
18:28 hmmmm        if you need over 5 arguments, that's a hint you should pass a structure instead
18:30 celeron55    the whole cubic mesh generation code should probably be redone
18:30 celeron55    it's really aged
18:30 celeron55    again one of the few things that existed in the first minetest, and just extended from there
18:32 hmmmm        what's transformR90 and transformFXR90?
18:33 celeron55    a texture modifier
18:33 hmmmm        what's the difference between*
18:33 hmmmm        R obviously rotates, but not sure about FXR
18:33 celeron55    well that is a good question
18:33 PilzAdam     FX = flip X
18:33 hmmmm        i see
18:33 celeron55    https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/blob/master/src/tile.cpp#L1485
18:33 PilzAdam     https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/blob/master/src/tile.cpp#L1495
18:34 hmmmm        i figured someone knew off the top of their heads..
18:34 celeron55    it's all workarounds for inflexible vertex generation code
18:34 celeron55    (in that usage)
18:34 hmmmm        i'm all for making minetest better, but this latest facedir hack is a bit too much to chew
18:35 PilzAdam     RBA will rage if he hears that...
18:35 celeron55    it's really a thing makeFastFace should do
18:35 celeron55    but it doesn't have access to facedir as it is and so on
18:35 celeron55    it wasn't designed for this kind of stuff 8)
18:36 celeron55    (that is, rotatable nodes)
18:37 grondilu     Hello, after compiling the latest version on github, I crashed when trying to play on either single or multiplayer.  I tried creating a brand new world, and now evrything works fine (including connecting to a server or to my local world that I couldn't play before).
18:37 celeron55    (hmm... i guess maybe it could be made to work with just adding more parameters and moving stuff around...)
18:37 hmmmm        grondilu, that's a shame..
18:40 hmmmm        so let me understand this...  the direction input is how the node was placed, the facedir is up, down, left, right of the individual tile, and the tileindex is which of the 6 sides of the cube we're talking about
18:41 celeron55    umm no
18:41 celeron55    facedir is 0, 1, 2 or 3
18:41 celeron55    being the directions you can place eg. a furnace in
18:41 hmmmm        ah
18:42 celeron55    tileindex is 0...5, being the faces of a cube
18:42 hmmmm        so the idea is to extend facedir to all 6 directions
18:42 hmmmm        this is nuts
18:42 celeron55    no, the idea is to extend it to like million directions... being something
18:42 celeron55    +like 20+
18:43 hmmmm        erm.. w/e
18:43 celeron55    apparently 24
18:43 hmmmm        what is the purpose of this even
18:43 hmmmm        are they trying to rotate it in such a way that it's not in a grid or something..?
18:43 celeron55    i'm not sure what they are, but RBA and VE said it gives full rotation freedom in all axis
18:44 celeron55    everything that is in a grid i guess
18:44 hmmmm        full rotational freedom of individual NODES...
18:44 celeron55    i mean, all 90 degree steps
18:44 celeron55    in YZ, XZ and XY planes
18:45 celeron55    at least that was the intention i believe
18:45 hmmmm        oh ah i see, 24 came from 6 faces and 4 directions for each tile
18:45 celeron55    hmm, true
18:45 hmmmm        if it were up to me i would've done this in a completely different manner
18:46 PilzAdam     is this used for paramtype2 = "facedir" or "wallmounted"?
18:46 celeron55    well first of all, i'm beginning to wonder how many textures get generated with that one when modders make all of their nodes use facedir
18:46 hmmmm        probably too many
18:47 celeron55    the textures are gotten from a mapping from strings to cached textures
18:47 celeron55    (obviously)
18:47 celeron55    in a HD texture pack, that is going to kill just about everything
18:48 ShadowNinja  if you use the extended facedirs minetest makes 4 copies of each texture?
18:49 ShadowNinja  if so then that has to be possible another way
18:49 celeron55    of course there is; just apply the facedir at the vertex generation level
18:50 hmmmm        i vote for:  dump this code and apply it at the vertex level
18:50 ShadowNinja  aye
18:50 celeron55    it requires modifying multiple functions but is the absolute right way
18:51 PilzAdam     doesnt it make even 8 copies?
18:51 celeron55    PilzAdam: my internal sorting algorithm doesn't work for that long a list, but 8 sounds about right
18:52 celeron55    of course it does them on-demand only when actually needed though
18:52 celeron55    so probably closer to 0 than 8
18:52 celeron55    but anyway, worst case is pretty bad
18:53 * celeron55  thinks it will be a good idea to not be around when RBA discovers this decision
18:53 celeron55    8D
18:53 PilzAdam     yep
18:53 hmmmm        no doubt vanessa is going to complain about how it's so slow with the HD texture pack
18:54 hmmmm        i think this is a problem that'll fix itself
18:55 celeron55    what does that even mean
18:56 celeron55    i believe we haven't yet reached singularity, altough the complexity is clearly getting there
18:56 celeron55    8D
18:57 celeron55    bad joke, but worth it
18:57 hmmmm        when i say 'fix itself' i mean that part of the problem is the person who wrote it thinking that this was a good idea
18:59 hmmmm        aghk.  looks like i was wrong, and QueuedBlockEmerge is going to have to return.. in a form however
19:01 hmmmm        instead of attaching it to the actual queue, i have it attached to the map that's used to check for existence, and instead of the peer ids being a map, i have it be a list, so it shouldn't be as horrible.
19:02 doserj       btw, are there plans to look at (and merge) https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/pull/439 and https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/pull/426?
19:02 hmmmm        shrug.
19:04 PilzAdam     the backface_culling serialization is useful
19:04 celeron55    oh no no no no
19:05 doserj       ?
19:05 celeron55    don't in the name of god and other scary things change the version of TileDef
19:05 celeron55    you'll be doomed
19:06 celeron55    21:07:44 < celeron55> oh no no no no
19:06 celeron55    21:08:20 < celeron55> don't in the name of god and other scary things change the version of  TileDef
19:06 celeron55    21:08:29 < celeron55> you'll be doomed
19:06 doserj       why?
19:07 celeron55    or... wtf
19:07 celeron55    if you connect an old client to a new server, what happens?
19:08 doserj       it throws an exception
19:08 celeron55    it shouldn't
19:08 celeron55    there is no real reason for it not to work
19:08 PilzAdam     it doesnt
19:08 doserj       how should old code be able to parse a new format?
19:08 PilzAdam     +throw an exception
19:09 PilzAdam     both versions are supported (0 and 1) and backface_culling is only read if version is >= 1
19:09 doserj       PilzAdam: old clients only parse version 0
19:10 doserj       and new servers only send version 1
19:10 PilzAdam     oh, right
19:11 celeron55    doserj: the versions in classes like that are silly because they are nearly useless in practice, because we want to maintain compatibility to both directions between versions (because that is... well, *very* useful and *very* doable if you know what you are doing)
19:12 celeron55    the way it can be done is to just add it to the end of the parameters, and ignore the SerializationError (or whatever it is called) when deserializing
19:12 celeron55    it's hacky but it keeps many people happy
19:13 doserj       that works as long as serialzation is not nested in something else's serialization
19:13 celeron55    ...true; is this such a case?
19:14 doserj       I don't know :)
19:14 celeron55    aaaah, this one is, but!
19:15 celeron55    (hell this serialization stuff is inconsistent)
19:15 celeron55    ContentFeatures::serialize gets the protocol version the client is using as a parameter
19:15 celeron55    (which should really happen everywhere, but it hasn't been applied to everywhere)
19:16 celeron55    if you bump the protocol version and make it serialize/deserialize the version of TileDef with the value if protocol_version >= whatever_the_new_version_is, everything will magically work
19:16 celeron55    because the server and client will negotiate a protocol version that both understand
19:18 celeron55    just change TileDef::serialize(std::ostream &os) to be TileDef::serialize(std::ostream &os, u16 protocol_version)
19:18 celeron55    and write the version 1 of TileDef if protocol_version is >= the bumped up one
19:19 celeron55    i'd be happy if someone turned everything to work like that that doesn't yet do so
19:19 celeron55    (beware of things that are written on disk though; this applies only to network-only data...)
19:21 celeron55    (and to complicate things even more (i shouldn't do this), ContentFeatures will probably be changed to be writable on disk sometime in the future, because of things)
19:21 doserj       a change to the disk-format is in the other pull request :)
19:21 doserj       (for liquid updates)
19:22 * celeron55  flees because of too much stuff ->
19:26 celeron55    i apologize the bad management here; i know it sucks to have pull requests hanging like that
19:26 celeron55    but i can't do anything to it without killing myself with too much thinking
19:50 doserj       like this? https://github.com/doserj/minetest/commit/75fe6d3e0c7d81405b833a476ca196e2c24eb8ab
20:19 doserj       (pushed to https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/pull/439)
20:59 F00          celeron55: Any idea as to what you're doing with physics for the next release?
21:00 F00          I feel like the greatly reduced air control and the inability to safely stop after a long fall are quite antagonist to people who build/use tall structures, particularly on servers without fast move
21:05 F00          Also, I realized why the current deceleration feels so glacial.
21:05 F00          The old walk_acceleration was 4.0 * BS, which was then multiplied by BS again. So accel/decel was 40/s (and I actually quite like it - feels responsive)
21:07 F00          Looks like 52122c34 is responsible.
21:07 F00          I think 40/s is good, anyhow. Otherwise it would take a full five seconds to get to 20/s fast move speed.
21:24 proller_     again ready 8-) https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/pull/482
21:25 RealBadAngel wb, ive read all the discussion ;)
21:26 RealBadAngel i agree it should be done better and i think i do know how to do that
21:26 RealBadAngel same way as nodeboxes are rotated
21:27 RealBadAngel to make my way (looks like it was kahrl's original idea) i had some hard time
21:28 RealBadAngel to make this lookup table i was sitting there with wooden cube in hand, number of faces writen on it and rotated it
21:30 RealBadAngel two pros of this way, its fully compatible with old code and adding all missing facedirs doesnt break any old code, core or mods
21:30 RealBadAngel 2nd is that i learned everything bout minetest facedirs, rotations
21:31 RealBadAngel facedir applied to the nodeboxes is the way it should be done
21:53 hmmmm        i've been seeing much opposition to the new physics.. haven't tried it myself but if a noticable amount of people hate it, probably should get rid of it
21:55 F00          I don't hate it as such, but I really dislike certain elements of it
21:55 F00          I wish the fast move affecting climbing/water had been a separate commit
21:55 F00          That's universally good in my eyes.
21:58 F00          The lack of air control makes it quite hard to not fall to your death, sometimes.
21:59 F00          Particularly if you're working on a sloping roof made out of whole blocks or some such
22:03 RealBadAngel hmmmm, so try it first
22:03 hmmmm        yeah, that's what i'm doing.  i just cloned the current upstream repository.
22:04 RealBadAngel btw anythin new has always decent ammount of change haters
22:04 hmmmm        yeah but there are valid reasons to not like the new physics...
22:04 hmmmm        not really just a matter of taste
22:04 RealBadAngel same was with new trees "omg i will have to work harder to chop a tree"
22:04 hmmmm        i don't know about you, but i'd rather err on the side of caution and be conservative
22:05 ShadowNinja  I like fast on water and ladders but shooting 10m in the air is a bit ridiculous
22:05 RealBadAngel so maybe it shall be fixed
22:07 RealBadAngel its a complex change to the players physics and can be tweaked
22:07 hmmmm        i feel like a motorboat
22:07 F00          The decel rate varying basd on whether you have fast move pressed or not is... wonky
22:07 ShadowNinja  lol
22:07 RealBadAngel its realistic
22:07 F00          A lot of long mine shafts/towers just put a ladder at important stuff so people can AFK and arrive at the proper spot
22:08 F00          Yes, but digging a one metre cube of stone out in half a second isn't, so I think realism isn't Minetest's goal
22:08 ShadowNinja  that is why there is a cushion in the jumping mod
22:10 hmmmm        i feel like i'm on the moon
22:10 RealBadAngel set gravity to 0.2
22:13 RealBadAngel F00, so what is the goal?
22:15 F00          Fun!
22:16 hmmmm        i'm gonna just say right now that i don't like the new physics
22:18 F00          I'm attached to the older, accidental 40/s decel.
22:18 RealBadAngel just because you used to it
22:18 hmmmm        OTOH i found a really nice seed
22:19 F00          Eh, no.
22:19 F00          With the new physics, if you fast move and hit the ground without holding it still, it's like you're on a slip-n-slide
22:19 RealBadAngel i agree that ladders issue shall be tweaked, but sayin because of it whole idea is wrong is
22:20 F00          I'm content with gravity-affected movement and free move having the only two different accel/decel sets
22:20 RealBadAngel as you said ... wonky
22:21 F00          I really like fast move in water and on ladders, I substantially dislike the much lower decel rate, and I loathe that a bit of water/ladder/rope/etc. is no longer good for stopping players that aren't holding down fast move.
22:29 RealBadAngel imho just the ladder stuff needs to be tweaked
23:31 VanessaE     agreed.
23:31 VanessaE     after playing with it for a while, everything seems good except the ladders.
23:34 hmmmm        vanessa, you're just the guy i'm lookin' for
23:34 hmmmm        https://github.com/kwolekr/minetest/commits/new_emerge
23:34 VanessaE     guy?  er
23:34 hmmmm        it's just a saying
23:34 * VanessaE   looks
23:35 hmmmm        at this point, the queue limits are readded, and it's usable in a multiplayer environment
23:35 hmmmm        you shouldn't experience any emerge freezing problems with this
23:35 VanessaE     nice
23:36 hmmmm        next up, i'll make the queue limits configurable, then i'm going to add in some debugging infrastructure so you can see how many entries the emergethread has, how much it's working, etc.
23:38 VanessaE     lets' see...  /teleport 1000,1000,1000...  //pos1 ...  /teleport -1000,-1000,-1000....  //pos2 ... //set cobble
23:38 VanessaE     ;-)
23:38 hmmmm        that has nothing to do with emerging honestly
23:38 hmmmm        aside from the teleportation
23:38 VanessaE     I was joking :-)
23:40 VanessaE     large 5000+ node operations are a good way to choke the old code though - even long after worldedit is done, the engine is chewing on the results minutes later.
23:40 VanessaE     or was.
23:42 VanessaE     ok, your new_emerge branch is up and running.
23:43 VanessaE     yep, this is definitely faster as well
23:43 hmmmm        faster!?
23:43 VanessaE     well lemme rephrase that
23:43 VanessaE     more responsive
23:43 hmmmm        the code is certainly cleaner, in theory it shouldn't be faster
23:43 hmmmm        more responsive, i can see that
23:43 VanessaE     it seems to be a tad harder to "outrun" the map loader
23:44 VanessaE     anyhow we'll see how it performs in practice
23:44 hmmmm        tell me if anything comes up
23:44 VanessaE     willdo
23:46 VanessaE     yep by now what I'm doing should have already made it choke.  ain't happening now.
23:46 VanessaE     this is a definite improvement
23:48 VanessaE     at worst I'm seeing a few seconds of latency every so often, followed by sudden bursts of map chunks loading up
23:48 VanessaE     (as seen from the client I mean)