Time Nick Message 01:17 VanessaE jeez, I wander off to take a nap (sorry, unannounced) and of course she fires off four million commits in my absence :-) 01:17 VanessaE it seems to be fixed now. 03:48 VanessaE Taoki: Report from a user, the default gravity setting (that is, if you don't set anything in minetest.conf) results in jumps that are perhaps only 2/3 as high as usual. Falling from the top of a default tree is enough to cause 1 heart damage. 03:48 VanessaE (I confirmed the latter) 13:23 Taoki VanessaE: Back. It's ok, just noted you about the new commits :P 13:23 Taoki As for gravity, that's applied in one location of the code with a very simple formula. so if it's set to 0, there's simply none, but it can't affect anything else 13:23 Taoki BRB though 13:47 Taoki Back. Not sure if I understood that issue properly... is gravity higher than it should be by default? Don't see why, but that should be looked into though it's a bit weird 13:51 Taoki I used a debug print and can confirm that when in the air (except free_move mode) Y acceleration is 0, and therefore Y acceleration code is not applied, which is needed for jumping and falling to work properly. Gravity code was barely thouched, so I see nothing logical that could cause gravity to act differently at default value. I also don't feel it being any different. 13:53 Taoki Also, I think it's normal for falling from the top of a tree to cost at least half a heart. Default trees are at least 5 blocks tall. In MineCraft, I believe you take half a heart if you fall from 4 blocks and a whole one if you fall from higher than 5... or something like that. 13:53 Taoki Well 6 blocks height at least 14:29 VanessaE Taoki: falling form a tree takes a whole heart now. Gravity is heavier by default than is normal - jumping normally takes you up higher than now (I think around 1.5m versus barely 1m now) 14:30 VanessaE so it behaves as if gravity is set to a higher value than the default. 14:30 Taoki That's all weird. Jumping feels the same to me as well as gravity 14:30 Taoki I don' see how, since the formula for it is very simple. And Y friction is disabled 14:31 VanessaE try comparing your branch against mainstream - the difference is subtle, but it's there. 14:48 Taoki It might be an impression. If it's gravity I don't see what in the code could influence that 14:49 VanessaE you also weren't able to spot why fly with velocity = 0 didn't work ;-) 14:49 VanessaE but you fixed it anyway :D 14:49 Taoki Might have been due to some older code yeah :) 14:53 Taoki Also, I might have noticed what it was, so I think I did spot it. Might have been a different problem though 14:53 Taoki I noticed that if going in free move mode while touching the ground, it would use ground speed until up in the air enough, cuz it was attempting to jump to some extent 15:10 Taoki I wonder if there will be any way to fix placing glass and slabs underwater. Currently that looks weird... primarily slabs because they make a "hole" in the water 15:10 VanessaE create a fake water entity to fill in the space 15:11 VanessaE juts a guess 15:11 VanessaE just* 15:12 Taoki yeah. No need to create a fake entity, just render the opposite of a nodebox in the type of fluid that node is in 15:12 Taoki But that will be complicated 15:38 Taoki PilzAdam: hi :) 15:39 Taoki PilzAdam: Need to go now for 1-2 hours. But just letting you know the latest version of my branch contains all your requests from last night (except the sliding after using fast). Also fixes the flying bug you and VanessaE noticed. Feel free to check it out again and perhaps it's good to go now 15:39 Taoki g2g, see you 15:39 PilzAdam will check it soon 18:18 Taoki back 18:40 Taoki PilzAdam: Any news? 18:52 PilzAdam Taoki, yes 18:52 PilzAdam Falling in lava isnt effected by viscosity 18:53 PilzAdam moving in lava (highest viscosity (7)) is waaaaay to slow 18:53 PilzAdam it should be at least half of water velocity 18:53 PilzAdam maybe more 18:54 Taoki It's difficult to find a good formula for that, I tried. Best would be to either set default lava viscosity lower (4-5) or water viscosity higher (2-3) 18:54 sfan5 quick question: where is the code that loads lua mods 18:55 Taoki PilzAdam: Think it would work to either set default water viscosity to 3 or lava viscosity to 5? 18:55 PilzAdam no, because it would break flowing code 18:55 PilzAdam s/break/"break" 18:56 PilzAdam and possible also "break" mods 18:57 Taoki ok. I don't know how to fix it then, since I wish to keep only one value for water friction. If I set it too low so lava isn't that slow, you'll be able to walk in water as fast as on land 18:58 Taoki Don't know how to change the forumula to change the offset from 1 to larger values 18:58 Taoki I thought about using two settings, but I think that wastes an extra value when one could be optimized 18:59 PilzAdam maybe (0.5*viscosity)+0.5 19:00 PilzAdam (or simmiliar) 19:00 Taoki Still, speed in lava is sort of what you'd expect it to be in real life. Considering you'd be some god and wouldn't get hurt if falling in lava, traveling through it would be as slow as the speed in MineTest :P 19:00 Taoki Hmm... 19:00 Taoki I have to account the liquid_friction setting as well though 19:00 Taoki Currently I have: v3f d_wanted = -speed / (lplayer->movement_liquid_fluidity / lplayer->liquid_viscosity); 19:01 PilzAdam the problem is that the viscosity gets too fast too high 19:01 Taoki See environment.cpp line 2075. I suck at maths, and it would prolly be a bit hard to find a correct way :P 19:02 Taoki movement_liquid_fluidity is 0.15 by default. So in lava, that line I pasted would be -speed / (0.15 / 7); 19:02 Taoki Which is the value at which velocity is limited 19:03 Taoki Any ideas what I could use there? 19:03 PilzAdam with my suggest formula, it would be 0.15/(0.5*7+0.5) == 0.15/4 19:04 PilzAdam maybe use 0.25*viscosity+0.75 19:04 Taoki ok, I will try that out and see what I get :) 19:04 PilzAdam lava movement should be something arround half of water movement 19:14 Taoki Trying something but it doesn't seem to work out: const u32 viscosity_factor = 0.25; ... ; d_wanted /= (viscosity_factor * lplayer->liquid_viscosity) + (1 - viscosity_factor); 19:15 PilzAdam because it makes every liquid movement faster 19:15 PilzAdam oh, wait 19:15 PilzAdam hm, seems like I cant read :-) 19:16 Taoki The whole thing if that helps: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=VsT4NBc5 19:17 Taoki Removed those useless paranthesis in the second line BTW 19:18 PilzAdam Im not very good at c++, but maybe use float instead of u32 19:18 Taoki Actually, I should just try lplayer->liquid_viscosity * 0.5 directly... not the entire complex thing 19:18 Taoki Will try that too 19:21 PilzAdam well, u32 only store integers, and the float digits are simply dropped 19:21 PilzAdam wich makes it 0 in your case 19:21 troller make to flowing liquid push player to flow direction 19:22 Taoki ahh, ok 19:22 Taoki troller: Might attempt that in a separate branch. This one has enough changes already 19:22 Taoki But that I am interested in as well 19:22 Taoki Actually, I could try it now... but how can I read a liquid's flow direction? 19:23 ShadowNinja if you do make sure it can push other entities 19:24 PilzAdam Taoki, IIRC the liquid flowing direction isnt stored in any param 19:24 doserj flow direction can be caluclated by comparing the liquid level with that of neighbouring node 19:24 troller param1 of flowing liqid 19:24 PilzAdam its only calculated in conten_mapblock.cpp for drawing 19:24 doserj *nodes 19:24 Taoki ok. Will need to be done some other day then 19:24 Taoki Almost got the viscosity offset to work... 19:24 troller ups. 19:24 PilzAdam troller, param1 stores the light 19:27 PilzAdam Taoki, maybe save the direction with a mask in param2 19:27 Taoki That's something to think about another time 19:27 PilzAdam sure 19:31 Taoki Yay, got the viscosity code to work 19:32 Taoki PilzAdam: Just one question to set it up well: Is cuirrent swimming speed in -water- good? 19:32 Taoki Cuz water is 1 and the factor offsets from there on, so I need to base it off that 19:32 sapier https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/pull/484 any suggestions what features are still missing? 19:35 PilzAdam Taoki, yes 19:35 Taoki ok, should be ready soon then 19:35 ShadowNinja on option to specify a folder maybe, for mods like worldedit that make many files. 19:39 sapier folder create delete support is dangerous there's a big chance you o mistakes ... what about adding this in second step? 19:39 sapier it's not a functional limitation 19:44 ShadowNinja that would be fine, I was thinking of having a separate "category" argument that doesn't allow paths so you can organize files without worrying about paths. 19:46 sapier yes but it's no big difference to support folders too and won't improve situation too much atm 19:47 Taoki PilzAdam: Done and pushed to my branch. Update and test now 19:47 Taoki Movement in lava should be about half as in water, maybe a bit faster so it's not annoying 19:47 sapier category is just "one level directory support" I assume as soon as this is added someone claims it'd be good to have subcategorys and subcategorys of subcategorys ;-) 19:48 Taoki Nah, about half 19:50 ShadowNinja yes, one level folders, I don't think subcategories will be necesary, although you could add support for that if you wanted 19:51 PilzAdam Taoki, does the viscosity effect the decelration when falling into liquids? 19:51 Taoki It affects friction, which is what is smoothened and causes the deceleration. So it should 19:52 PilzAdam and the constant down movement when you dont move? 19:52 Taoki Sure, just tested that 19:52 Taoki With current lava to water difference it's a bit less visible though 19:52 PilzAdam ok 19:52 Taoki If you set lava viscosity to 14 though you can see you sink much slower visibly 19:53 PilzAdam lua-api.txt says 7 should be max 19:56 Taoki Hold on, I'm trying to fix the smoothing when falling in liquid as well. Think that wasn't working by itself 19:56 Taoki Almost got it 19:57 sapier Some weeks ago I had a discussion with hmmmm (if i remember correct) about splitting scriptapi.cpp is this common consens to be done? 19:58 ShadowNinja scriptapi.cpp is getting awfully long 19:59 sapier yes I've already implemented file api in a separate file maybe we could extract e.g. inventory same way 20:00 ShadowNinja could we categorize scriptapi related files in a folder? 20:00 sapier I'd do it but as scriptapi is often modified this is a change that should be merged very soon in order to not be obsolete 20:01 sapier i'm completely with you but I thought subfolders are a no go in minetest ? 20:01 ShadowNinja I don't know, I haven't seen anything about that 20:02 sapier maybe this is outdated too 20:02 sapier I'd prefere subfolders to adding prefixes too 20:03 ShadowNinja yes, src/ is already very large 20:03 sapier I've already created virtual folders in my eclipse workspace to handle this 20:04 sapier but moving files isn't quite convenient in git as far as I know 20:04 PilzAdam scriptapi.cpp should only contain wrapper functions so the size doesnt really matter 20:04 ShadowNinja I think it detects renaming, and moving is just annother rename 20:05 sapier Pilzadam size does matter if you try to find a place where to add something 20:05 sapier and it was long ago where scriptapi was wrapper only 20:06 PilzAdam it should be wrapper only 20:06 PilzAdam so rather move stuff to environment or so 20:06 PilzAdam instead splitting the file up 20:06 sapier you can't move lua table creation and validation to environment 20:06 Taoki PilzAdam: Just fixed. Get the latest commit and try again :) 20:06 sapier ok you can but it doesn't make any sense 20:07 PilzAdam Taoki, btw: I have invented Lava Diving (TM) while testing :D 20:07 Taoki Hehe. Lava diving will work correctly now 20:08 Taoki Anyway, can you confirm lava diving and swimming in lava work ok at current values? I made the offset a little higher and lave movement should be exactly half of water's now 20:09 sapier currently there are three things done in scriptapi.cpp "wrapping" "data representation" and "parameter checks" all of them are extremely lua dependent 20:09 sapier that file has 7k lines ... just to tell a number what we're talking about 20:10 PilzAdam Taoki, everything is perfect now 20:10 Taoki Yay :) 20:10 Taoki On my end it's all good too 20:12 Taoki PilzAdam: So if you can now, feel free to push it upstream. People will surely enjoy that :D 20:12 Taoki diving is fuuun 20:13 PilzAdam Taoki, I will merge it tomorrow, its sleeping time again 20:13 PilzAdam bye 20:14 Taoki ok :) Bye 20:28 darkrose Taoki: squashed and merged 20:28 Taoki darkrose: Thanks! 20:53 Taoki http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=11185#p11185 Looking at this post today, I can tell a LOT was done in almost exactly an year. By the time I posted that (17-02-2012) none of the things I mentioned there existed. Today (13-02-2013) more than half does! 20:57 VanessaE very impressive, Taoki 20:57 Taoki Thanks :) 21:00 Taoki VanessaE: Feel free to switch your server to latest master now. Everyone who runs GIT can test it now 21:00 VanessaE alreayd did. 21:01 Taoki ok 21:01 Taoki But yeah, I'm happy I got this and 3D players done the most. MineTest feels a lot more modern now, and it will only attract more people and things will get better 21:01 Taoki Kinda rare to see an open-source project prospering this much this quickly. Most are kinda struggling to have devs doing much 21:03 ShadowNinja now we just need to catch up on our backlog of pull requests 21:04 Taoki I'm glad there are more devs handling pull requests now. 21:04 ShadowNinja down to 46 from 50 at least 21:04 ShadowNinja yes, me too 21:04 Taoki BTW. With current upstream and no mods, is it possible to set a home location? 21:05 ShadowNinja not without teleport 21:07 Taoki teleport = a mod? 21:07 VanessaE next suggestion: texturable sun/moon and programmable sky color 21:07 Taoki Yes, I'd like that too. But that goes in difficult domains 21:08 Taoki They're already texturable though, just impossible to change the file name 21:08 ShadowNinja no, it is in builtin/chatcommands.lua 21:08 Taoki ok 21:08 RealBadAngel then you have to try, try, try :) 21:08 RealBadAngel hi all 21:08 Taoki hi 21:08 VanessaE whoever does it I only ask one thing: proper alpha support for the sun/moon images 21:08 VanessaE so they can have a proper corona around them 21:09 RealBadAngel just tried proller's finite liquids again and it seems to stop working 21:09 RealBadAngel have any1 else tried it? 21:10 ShadowNinja The #1 pull request I want atm is a fix for memory leaks, and performance improvements 21:11 ShadowNinja I would also like the compiler warnings pull request to be accepted 21:12 Taoki RealBadAngel: Looking at some pipes on VanessaE's server. I'm pretty skeptical about making round pipes out of nodeboxes, by using so many of them. For one thing it looks visible square-ish... then I wonder how much performance it eats 21:13 Taoki The way I wish those could be done (not sure if they will) is by allowing smoothing of voxels. Marching cubes or something. But eh... different and difficult topic :P 21:14 VanessaE Taoki: they don't seem to affect performance appreciably, but I do sometimes wish there were a way to smooth them after the register_node() call 21:14 VanessaE I know c55 doesn't care for them - they're not blocky enough :-) 21:14 Taoki yeah. It's something I have in mind, but very difficult 21:14 RealBadAngel thats good :) more difficult the better :) 21:14 Taoki That's one part where we can separate from MineCraft. I'm not looking for everything to be blocky... just have the same system and functionality 21:15 Taoki Reason MC is blocky is that using marching cubes would have been difficult even for Notch... especially in java 21:15 Taoki With Irrlicht it could be different still 21:15 VanessaE marching cubes? 21:17 Taoki VanessaE: A system which creates a smooth surface between voxels, instead of blocks 21:17 VanessaE OH 21:17 VanessaE yes indeed that's what I would like to see 21:17 Taoki So each voxel defines a floating point to generate the mesh over, instead of being a block 21:17 Taoki yeah :) 21:17 VanessaE of course a lot of us have asked for per-nodebox textures, but that would be...non-trivial 21:19 Taoki That will happen too at some point 21:20 VanessaE nice 21:21 VanessaE Taoki: ok, try it now. 21:38 Taoki Any reason why RBA's big trees mod isn't default yet? Such awesomeness can't be wasted >:o 21:39 VanessaE because it's in moretrees? :-) 21:39 VanessaE and I don't think c55 likes 'em :-) 21:39 RealBadAngel he likes they, he admited that 21:39 RealBadAngel *them 21:40 RealBadAngel i think trees are waitin for new biomes :) 21:40 troller RealBadAngel, try now liquid with liquid_relax = 0 21:41 troller liquid_finite = true 21:41 troller liquid_update = 0.2 21:41 troller liquid_relax = 0 21:42 RealBadAngel ok 21:42 RealBadAngel shall i generate new world? 21:42 Taoki celeron55: Any reason why the huge trees aren't added yet? They make maps so much more awesome and beautiful, and I think it will be a blowing improvement :) 21:42 troller no, just find any flowing water and touch it 21:42 troller like undersea cave with bubbles 21:44 troller but with relax=2 more realistic smooth surface 21:47 troller and good idea to set #define LIQUID_LEVEL_MASK 0x3f // better finite water 21:48 troller but it broke compatibility 21:48 RealBadAngel Taoki, treegen is core for some time. New mapgen and biomes have to use it 21:48 Taoki ok 21:49 RealBadAngel afaik hmmm is now busy with new emerge thread stuff 21:51 VanessaE and for now, 21:51 VanessaE plants_lib + moretrees = biomes. 21:51 VanessaE and I think it does a damn good job of it :-) 21:52 Taoki Biomes are still hard coded sadly 21:52 VanessaE Taoki: no. look at plants_lib 21:52 Taoki VanessaE: Can you define biomes like desert_forest, snowy, etc. entirely in LUA? 21:52 VanessaE Taoki: with my mod, yes. 21:52 Taoki IIRC it still uses C++ hooks for these (aliases) 21:52 Taoki oh... 21:52 Taoki Does it work with upstream? 21:53 VanessaE my server has it. so yes. It just has to do more work in Lua because it is, after all, still a mod 21:53 VanessaE moretrees depends on it, for example. 21:54 VanessaE flowers and such too, but with more relaxed limitations 21:54 Taoki yes, But can you create entire biomes without the C++ hooks / aliases for desert and forest? 21:54 VanessaE more or less yeah 21:55 VanessaE I've never tried doing thigns such as replacing whole sections of the map, my code is mainly for adding stuff on top of whatever's already there 21:55 VanessaE https://raw.github.com/VanessaE/plantlife/master/API.txt 22:03 Taoki interesting 22:03 VanessaE why that library is so underused, I don't know 22:06 sapier it's not included within minetest_game ;-) 22:07 VanessaE and never will be 22:07 troller VanessaE, temperature perlin map already available ? 22:07 VanessaE my mods are too complex and too varied for celeron55's liking. 22:07 VanessaE troller: yes 22:07 troller how about humidity for rain and snow ? 22:07 sapier I know it's same for mobf too :-) 22:07 VanessaE troller: a humidity map is implemented, yes. 22:08 VanessaE but I don't currently use it for anything in my mods. 22:08 troller good 22:08 VanessaE temperature, humidity, ground fertility, nearness to water (or other nodes), elevation, light level, ... 22:09 troller and monster strength level.. 22:10 VanessaE eh, well. 22:10 VanessaE that's up to someone else to implement. 22:10 VanessaE :-) 22:10 sapier vanessae is plantlib working standalone? 22:10 RealBadAngel troller, why the heck water in 2x2 hole (one source placed) is flowing in 4 directions?? 22:11 RealBadAngel with four different levels? 22:11 VanessaE sapier: yes 22:11 VanessaE it does not depend on anything else. 22:11 VanessaE except default of course 22:11 RealBadAngel i suggest stop listening to all PA's ideas 22:11 sapier default as in default minimal or default minetest_game? 22:12 RealBadAngel hes making finite water idea fucked up 22:12 VanessaE sapier: default as in minetest_game, but actually I've never tried it under minimal. It might work even then (if you tweak depends.txt) 22:12 VanessaE care to give it a try? 22:13 sapier I'll do as soon as I start experiments 22:13 troller RealBadAngel, have screenshot ? 22:13 RealBadAngel wait a sec 22:14 VanessaE sapier: ok 22:15 VanessaE sapier: I welcome pull requests if you spot a bug or know a way to speed the code up even more, etc. 22:15 VanessaE or if you see how it can be made to run in minimal if it doesn't already 22:15 troller RealBadAngel, maybe overoptimized for oceans 22:15 sapier as pathbased movement gen is completed this may be next step ... as soon as I've added all requested features to secure file api 22:15 troller or buggy visual of flowing liquids 22:17 RealBadAngel http://i.imgur.com/LHlSir2.png 22:17 RealBadAngel http://i.imgur.com/uGQOVUw.jpg 22:18 VanessaE RealBadAngel: eek, way to break it 22:18 RealBadAngel 2nd sshot, those triangles of water are here for about 10 minutes by now 22:19 RealBadAngel finite water doesnt behave like finite at all anymore, it seems like PA's suggestions made from it fucked up infinite one 22:21 RealBadAngel troller, i suggest you fire up mc, install finite liquids mod, and look how it should behave 22:21 RealBadAngel and dont listen to PA 22:22 VanessaE maybe PA is a spy from mjoang ;-) 22:22 RealBadAngel lol, that could explain everythin 22:22 VanessaE er mojang* 22:23 RealBadAngel a saboteur 22:24 RealBadAngel with mission pretend to be doing lotsa stuff and break everythin around lol 22:24 VanessaE maybe not :-) 22:24 RealBadAngel or PA's idendity was stolen by mojangs hacker, who knows... 22:34 RealBadAngel he used to make excellent mods before 22:35 RealBadAngel now he changed completely 22:35 RealBadAngel i remember his fork of minetest_game with lotsa cool solutions and ideas 22:36 RealBadAngel now hes merging only trivial changes, which in fact mostly break stuff 22:37 RealBadAngel none of his own, good ideas were merged 22:38 RealBadAngel for example his patch to use stone groups in crafting recipes made cookin cobble to smooth stone obsolete 22:38 RealBadAngel why you would waste time, coal or whatever if in all recipes you can use just cobble 22:39 ShadowNinja do you think a cobble group should be added? 22:39 RealBadAngel not to mention all stones are equal now, and adding other ones to this group by modders would be just stupid (for example furnace made out of obsidian or granite) 22:40 troller RealBadAngel, triangles from unchanged old visual code, really they are 1 level 22:40 RealBadAngel undo his idiotic changes i mean 22:40 RealBadAngel groups are good for all kinds of wood for example 22:40 RealBadAngel not the stone 22:40 ShadowNinja disable shaders if you want to get rid of the triangles 22:41 ShadowNinja I see what you mean 22:41 RealBadAngel i got shaders disabled... 22:41 ShadowNinja hmmm 22:42 troller RealBadAngel, now all changes configurable 22:42 RealBadAngel troller, 1 level or not, triangle or flat, whatever, why it doesnt flow down? 22:43 troller left - ok, no way to flow 22:44 RealBadAngel current screenshot: 22:44 RealBadAngel http://i.imgur.com/6oqufV7.jpg 22:44 troller center - like bug 22:45 troller tomorow will debug 22:45 RealBadAngel ok 22:46 RealBadAngel and dont listen to saboteurs, just make it work :) 22:46 RealBadAngel its too cool idea to be broken 22:46 RealBadAngel with it pumps will have use. like real one 22:47 troller its hard to find balance between performance, good loking and realistic 22:47 RealBadAngel btw 22:48 RealBadAngel you should try to close holes in oceans 22:49 RealBadAngel on mapgen when theres air under water node insert there stone or whatever 22:49 RealBadAngel to avoid forced huge updates to oceans on start 22:49 troller many of them transforms to flow 22:49 troller in pull request was like this fix 22:50 troller not from me 22:50 RealBadAngel so take a look on it and adapt the code 22:50 troller but huge updates are funny 22:51 RealBadAngel not at the very start ;) 22:51 troller ok. 22:51 troller i go to sleep. bye 22:51 RealBadAngel cya