Time Nick Message 02:00 spectator tada! i'm back 02:01 VanessaE wb 02:02 spectator what do you think about terasology? 02:02 spectator is is another mc-like opensource project 02:02 spectator written in java 02:02 VanessaE not familar with it 02:03 VanessaE familiar* 02:03 spectator which is slower but IMHO more complete than MT 02:03 spectator https://github.com/MovingBlocks/Terasology 02:03 VanessaE eh, pass 02:04 * VanessaE does not like Java 02:05 spectator yeah me too because I was not able to play it on my computer where minetest works fine (not always) 02:06 spectator but graphics and content is better in that project 02:06 VanessaE graphics? that's a texture pack issue. 02:06 VanessaE content? there are tons of mods. 02:06 VanessaE next? :-) 02:07 spectator graphics = there are special effects which look awesome (but they should be slow) 02:07 spectator it is not possible to implement them with texture packs 02:07 VanessaE special effects such as......? 02:08 spectator 1) particles which appear when you break a node 02:08 VanessaE particles mod. 02:09 spectator 2) vignette effect 02:10 spectator 3) light from the sky makes "mountains" glow 02:10 spectator 4) plants move 02:10 NakedFury water 02:11 NakedFury 20 thousand times better 02:11 spectator watch this vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13ha669K88I 02:11 VanessaE so raise some github issues about these 02:11 NakedFury shadows 02:11 spectator c55 wont do this, you know 02:12 VanessaE vignette should be fairly easy, just overlay the whole screen with an appropriate image 02:12 VanessaE moving plants: see animated water/lava/torches. 02:12 VanessaE not sure what you mean by making the mountains glow 02:12 NakedFury its the lightning 02:14 NakedFury many of those things wont be added by c55 because they wont run on old pcs 02:15 spectator this is simply stupid 02:15 NakedFury what is? 02:15 spectator make the game look like shit only because it will not work on shitty computers 02:16 spectator add these features to config file so users with old computers (like me) will be able to turn these nice features off 02:16 VanessaE the game doesn't "look like shit" 02:16 NakedFury well if you can code in c++ and found a way to add those and more importantly found a way to make them on/off as wanted then c55 would add it for sure 02:16 spectator it does 02:17 VanessaE http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/minetest-screenshot-vanessa512hd-1.png 02:17 VanessaE this looks like shit? 02:18 spectator it looks a little bit better but that is because you have used a custom texture pack 02:18 VanessaE indeed so. 02:18 VanessaE used -> made 02:19 spectator basically the problem is in the little details 02:19 VanessaE little details can be improved as long as they're not just stuff coming from minecraft 02:19 VanessaE they need to have merit on their own 02:19 spectator * basically^W actually 02:19 spectator GUI, font, the light, particles, etc 02:20 spectator all stuff like that should be in the minetest build 02:20 VanessaE but why 'should' it be is the question? 02:20 spectator so people will not have to collect mods from all over the place 02:20 VanessaE what would be improved versus leaving them as mods the user can download? 02:20 NakedFury it improves 02:20 VanessaE all over the place? We have a central repository of a sort - the Mod Releases forum. 02:20 NakedFury everything 02:21 spectator mod forum is just stupid (sorry for talking like that, english is not my native language) 02:21 spectator it is not organized at all 02:21 VanessaE why? it serves its purpose well 02:22 spectator if there would be a website for mods which is _made specifically for minetest_ 02:22 VanessaE *facepalm* 02:22 spectator forum or blog engine works well only for blogs and forums but not for mods 02:24 spectator actually minetest web resources are not organized at all 02:24 spectator forum = does not work 02:24 spectator blog = c55's blog which is abandoned 02:24 VanessaE abandoned? 02:24 VanessaE um, no 02:24 VanessaE forum, works fine 02:25 spectator yep he writes a little in there 02:25 VanessaE forum link takes you to the main forums page as usual 02:25 VanessaE github link works, about, download, contribute (and -> dev wiki) all work 02:25 spectator hm.. it actually works... 02:26 VanessaE wiki works too 02:26 VanessaE the only one that doesn't "work" is the servers one, because it never got filled out 02:26 VanessaE and that's because servers come and go too frequently for c55 to waste his time on that 02:31 VanessaE now as for what you want added as default, you need to file issues on github - one issue per feature request 02:31 VanessaE but consider this: 02:31 VanessaE celeron55 said he will be "adding a lot of content" to the default game in the near future 02:31 VanessaE what that consists of, he wasn't clear (or I forgot). 02:32 VanessaE right now, what's important is making a kick-ass engine for all of that content to run on 02:32 spectator celeron55 said he will be "adding a lot of content" to the default game in the near future <-- i hope it will be something nice 02:32 VanessaE it will be stuff pulled from (or inspired by) the modding community. 02:32 VanessaE so get over to github and start filing some issues. 02:32 NakedFury kick ass engine needs lightning and particles 02:33 VanessaE particles is easy 02:33 VanessaE the particles mod handles that 02:33 spectator and about web resources (forums/blogs/website) - when I said that they are not organized i meant that they are separated "places 02:34 spectator particles mod is not a solution 02:34 VanessaE why? it works nicely 02:34 VanessaE I use it 02:35 spectator particles are effects which must be added by renderer 02:35 spectator which is written in fast C++ 02:35 spectator they must not be implemented in lua mods 02:36 VanessaE have you ever USED that mod? 02:36 VanessaE they seem plenty fast to me 02:36 NakedFury they have to be in source code 02:36 spectator you dont understand 02:36 VanessaE I've watched smoke rise from something like a thousand torches at once, without apparent slow downs 02:36 spectator visual effects must be rendered by the renderer 02:36 VanessaE they ARE 02:37 VanessaE lua just moves the particles around, but they're still textures, so the rendering engine handles actually drawing them 02:37 VanessaE in the default mod, if I remember right, each "particle" is actually a 7x7 texture file with a single pixel of th desired color in the center. 02:38 VanessaE in my texture pack, each is 49x49 pixels and drawn to look like a cloud of pixels 02:38 spectator *facepalm* renderer must draw visual effects. lua mods should implement content (not visual effects!!!) 02:38 spectator i hope you will not suggest some lua mod for new lighting 02:39 VanessaE *double facepalm* 02:39 spectator and also mod which renders 3d scene differently 02:39 VanessaE lighting is best handled by the rendering engine, yes. 02:39 VanessaE self.object:setacceleration({x=0, y=0.5, z=0}) 02:39 VanessaE 02:40 VanessaE ^^^ that's a game engine feature. 02:40 VanessaE lua is NOT moving the object. the C++ code is. 02:40 spectator that looks like the mod is connected to... A PHYSICS ENGINE?!?!? 02:40 spectator WTF?! 02:40 VanessaE beats me how it works, but it's part of the minetest engine code. 02:41 spectator "setacceleration"??? 02:41 VanessaE all of these use Minetest entities, moved using the setacceleration and setvelocity callbacks. 02:41 VanessaE (or are they functions? I never can remember the difference) 02:42 VanessaE either way, the game engine handles that stuff, it's not like the lua code is sitting there iterating through every pixel the object moves 02:42 spectator particles are not objects - they do not interact with the game world - they are just a visual effect 02:42 VanessaE not here, they are actual objects. 02:42 VanessaE because that's the easiest way to handle the, 02:42 VanessaE them. 02:42 spectator and it is a good practice to draw visual effects in final, post-processing, steps of the renderer cycle 02:43 VanessaE now that said it's not like you can just click on them and grab them 02:44 spectator that is a slowest way (bad one) to handle them. 02:44 spectator but of course, it just works 02:44 VanessaE it works, and apparently quite well 02:45 spectator im quite surprised that c55 spends that much time for designing (not coding) the game an 02:45 VanessaE HUH!? 02:46 VanessaE https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/commits/master 02:46 VanessaE um, c55 would disagree with you. 02:46 VanessaE note the date of the latest commit. today. 02:46 spectator and after all that he allows this: visual effects implemented with a physics engine 02:46 spectator note the date of the latest commit. today. <-- fix a "terrible grammar error in comment" 02:47 spectator it's => its 02:47 VanessaE ok, look at the commits before that then 02:47 VanessaE don't cherry pick 02:47 spectator "latest commit" 02:47 VanessaE especially yesterday's 02:47 spectator but i'm not talking about his commits 02:47 VanessaE what then? 02:48 spectator there was a gap between my two posts in this irc 02:48 spectator im quite surprised that c55 spends that much time for designing (not coding) the game and after all that he allows this: visual effects implemented with a physics engine 02:48 spectator ^^^ this is what i was talking about 02:48 VanessaE oh 02:49 VanessaE he codes what he feels is most relevant to getting the game into the state he wants - which is not a minecraft clone. 02:50 VanessaE and G*d I hope it never becomes one. 02:50 spectator well it is actually _his_ project so he can implement whatever features he wants to 02:50 spectator but that does not make a shitty implementation of features a good one 02:51 spectator which is not a minecraft clone <-- good idea, we dont need another minecraft because we already have one 02:52 VanessaE shitty in YOUR opinion 02:52 VanessaE to me, it's a fun game and that's the most important part. 02:54 spectator i look on this situation from programmer's point of view 02:54 spectator you are looking from player's POV 02:55 spectator so, yes, my opinion is that particles are implemented really bad 02:56 VanessaE yeah but the stuff you're asking for is really not that useful - it's all eye candy and no function 02:56 VanessaE I am looking at it from a coder's point of view. 02:56 NakedFury it is important 02:56 NakedFury the sooner it is done the better 02:56 * VanessaE <-- 25 years' worth of programming. 02:57 spectator wow 02:57 spectator that is a lot! 02:58 spectator organizing stuff is very important and c55 understands that 02:58 VanessaE it's enough anyway. 02:59 VanessaE I just don't do much with modern languages except bash and lua (and still learning those because I don't actually like modern languages :-) ) 02:59 spectator but i was just surprised when he said nothing about THAT way of a visual effect implementation 02:59 VanessaE where'd you expect such to appear? 02:59 VanessaE if you don't file issues on github about these features, he won't comment on them. 02:59 spectator as i've already said, in renderer subsystem 03:00 VanessaE I meant the comments, not the code. 03:00 spectator i'm not going to to that because i know what will happen: he will call me an idiot 03:00 VanessaE not if you word your posts properly. 03:00 VanessaE give examples, use cases, clear reasoning 03:01 NakedFury no 03:01 NakedFury he will 03:01 VanessaE not so much anymore, I've been talking with him 03:01 VanessaE I'll pass your comments on to him. 03:08 VanessaE also keep this in mind: 03:09 VanessaE the only machine c55 has that's any good for gaming, if I understand him correctly, is his laptop. 03:09 VanessaE so whatever he codes HAS to work on that. 03:16 NakedFury a good GUI works on any laptop 03:17 VanessaE only if the GUI uses only those features the laptop can handle. 03:17 VanessaE if a GUI or the game needs something a modern laptop can't handle, then the laptop either can't play the game or the feature has to be toned down 03:18 VanessaE either way it can't be tested then. 03:18 NakedFury the gui just needs textures we can change 03:18 VanessaE well the game is more than just its GUI 03:19 MiJyn NO! The reason why I play this game is because of it's GUI! Why else? :P 03:37 VanessaE zzz 04:41 spectator ok bye 10:27 Kray https://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=51142 AUR package now 0.4.1 11:57 EdB hello 11:57 VanessaE hi 11:58 EdB I would be intersed in some code contribution 11:58 EdB what is the best way to applies ? 11:58 VanessaE make a fork of minetest/minetest_game and start uploading changes to it 11:58 VanessaE one change/feature/fix per commit 11:59 VanessaE then create pull requests against celeron55's main branch. he'll look at the changes, and if they're good, they may be incorporated. 11:59 VanessaE the rest comes down to just reading through the code and trying to gain an understanding of it 12:00 EdB is there a list of welcomed change and the opposite . 12:00 VanessaE well there is the game's roadmap, 12:01 darkrose http://minetest.net/wiki/doku.php?id=roadmap:roadmap might help 12:01 VanessaE I'll get the link in a .... 12:01 VanessaE yeah, that ^^^^^ 12:01 darkrose :p 12:01 VanessaE beyond that - don't try to implement changes that only serve to make the game more like minecraft 12:01 VanessaE instead, focus on stuff everyone is likely to use 12:01 VanessaE and make sure your changes are functional - that they do something useful in the context of the ga,e 12:01 VanessaE game* 12:02 EdB not my purpose i'm more a terraria player :o) 12:02 VanessaE good :-) 12:02 VanessaE too many people want to turn minetest into a straight clone of minecraft, which doesn't sit well with many of us 12:04 EdB ok 12:05 VanessaE one thing a lot of people have been wanting though is 3d mobs, but c55 wants any such code to be as flexible as possible 12:05 VanessaE and clean, and fast 12:06 VanessaE and able to run on his laptop :-) 12:06 VanessaE one thing I personally would like to see is faster game startup - when you have dozens of mods and huge textures, the extrude function that is run at startup takes forever 12:06 VanessaE (it should be done on demand instead) 12:14 EdB reading minetest_game, it all look likes Lua. 12:14 Calinou because it is 12:14 EdB I'm more a C++ guy, that do the Lua binding 12:15 EdB (I already made one of my own :o) ) 12:16 EdB sould I consider going directly througt minetest.git or does I've to start with minetest_game ? 12:16 EdB I guess I can do both 12:16 VanessaE the minetest_game part is all lua yeah 12:16 VanessaE the minetest part (sans _game) is the engine and is C++ 12:16 Calinou has some lua; see the "builtin" folder 12:17 VanessaE well yeah some, but primarily C++ 12:17 EdB I guess before been promoted to 'builtin', it have to go to minetest_game before 12:20 VanessaE not sure how that works, but I *think* most stuff is being moved out of the engine and into minetest_game where practical 12:20 VanessaE and I think third-party stuff is expected to end up in there too 12:20 VanessaE doors did, for example 12:21 darkrose builtin is lower leve stuff, not related to gameplay, _game is actual game code 15:09 EdB what does snamppy meens for a node ? 15:09 EdB snappy 15:10 EdB I got the english definition but doesn't figure it out in minetest context 15:11 EdB ok got it 17:11 cosarara97 hello, I'm trying to draw a 2d image to the screen, but can't get it to work :( http://pastebin.com/bUcQ1qka 17:11 cosarara97 Can anyone help me? 17:11 jordach cosarara97, why not use a direct .png overlay 17:11 cosarara97 ? 17:11 jordach rather than some effects 17:12 jordach place it on top like a layer, (gimp wise) 17:12 cosarara97 Because I didn't know I could do that :) 17:12 jordach you can 17:12 jordach thats the thing 17:12 cosarara97 So how do I do that? 17:12 jordach there is more than one way to code a feature 17:18 cosarara97 Then how do I do the png overlay? 17:18 jordach thats your job 17:18 jordach im just saying, rather than a long and costly way 17:18 jordach try and make it simple 17:19 cosarara97 well, that's the way I found of doing it 17:19 cosarara97 I don't know much about either c++ or irrlicht 17:20 spectator cosarara97, full code pleas 17:20 cosarara97 Well, that's inside game.cpp 17:20 spectator http://pastebin.com/bUcQ1qka <-- this one will not even compile 17:21 cosarara97 https://github.com/cosarara97/minetest 17:21 spectator https://github.com/cosarara97/minetest/blob/master/src/game.cpp ? 17:22 cosarara97 yes 17:22 spectator line 1740 17:22 cosarara97 yes 17:23 spectator and what do you want to do? some kind of binocular? 17:24 cosarara97 yep 17:25 cosarara97 I got it to zoom, but the eyehole doesn't appear 17:26 spectator hm 17:26 spectator did you test it on smaller textures 17:27 spectator it looks like you've called driver->draw2DImage() correctly 17:27 cosarara97 no, but I got it to appear in the place of hearts 17:28 spectator yep i saw that you've modified hearts code 17:28 spectator on line 303 - driver->draw2DImage(heart_texture, rect, //... 17:29 cosarara97 huh? 17:29 spectator well it should work 17:29 spectator but for some reason it does not 17:29 cosarara97 I just tried putting the heart texture in place of the eyehole 17:29 spectator maybe it works for small textures only (hearts 16x16) because of some bug 17:30 cosarara97 it doesn't work either 17:31 spectator btw, is a eyehole.png texture at the same folder as heart.png? 17:31 cosarara97 yes 17:31 spectator hm... 17:31 cosarara97 in games/minimal/mods/default/textures 17:32 spectator try to replace heart.png texture with something else 17:32 cosarara97 If I don't put it, it says it'll generate a dummy image 17:32 spectator if hearts will not change in the game - it is the wrong folder 17:32 cosarara97 I replaced the heart.png with the eyehole, and it worked 17:32 cosarara97 But I don't want eyeholes in the place of hearts :) 17:33 spectator ok try to use heart texture instead of eyehole 17:33 spectator if your code is good 17:33 cosarara97 Already done 17:33 spectator you will see a giant heart 17:33 cosarara97 It doesn't work 17:34 cosarara97 There must be something wrong 17:34 cosarara97 I think it'll be something stupid 17:34 cosarara97 :/ 17:36 spectator can you use guienv->addStaticText() to draw text? 17:36 spectator you might want to use it to indicate that texture is actually loaded 17:37 spectator after line 1751, where if condition ends, add else one and draw some text with it 17:37 spectator you will see this text if texture is not loaded 17:37 cosarara97 guienv->addStaticText("foo") ? 17:38 spectator no 17:39 spectator gui::IGUIStaticText *guitext = guienv->addStaticText(L"Minetest-c55", core::rect(x1, y1, x2, y2),false, false); 17:39 cosarara97 lol 17:39 cosarara97 ok 17:39 spectator replace x1, y1, x2, y2 with coordinates of the textbox 17:39 spectator and Minetest-c55 with the text 17:40 cosarara97 0,0,50,50 will do, right? 17:40 spectator not really 17:40 cosarara97 oh 17:40 spectator try to put it somewhere else 17:41 spectator the top left corner is already used 17:41 spectator by debug text 17:41 spectator which is drawn by the same function 17:41 cosarara97 50,50,100,100? 17:41 spectator yep 17:42 cosarara97 gui::IGUIStaticText *guitext = guienv->addStaticText(L"This is not loading", core::rect(50, 50, 100, 100),false, false); 17:42 spectator yep 17:42 spectator and if it will not work, try (font->getDimension(L"Random test string").Height + 50) for y2 17:42 cosarara97 /home/jaume/minetest/git/cosarara97/minetest/src/game.cpp:1740:33: error: no matching function for call to ‘irr::gui::IGUIEnvironment::addStaticText(const char [6])’ 17:43 spectator that means that you cannot use this function in there 17:43 cosarara97 Why? 17:44 spectator so i think that you simply wrote your code in the wrong place :) 17:44 spectator try to put whole block right after the hearts rendering code 17:44 cosarara97 oh 17:45 cosarara97 sorry, I hadn't removed the guienv->addStaticText("foo") 17:45 cosarara97 lol 17:45 cosarara97 well 17:45 cosarara97 no text 17:45 cosarara97 That means the texture is loading, right? 17:46 spectator yep 17:46 spectator and is it drawn on the screen 17:46 spectator ? 17:46 cosarara97 no 17:48 spectator ok try dump something into errorstream instead of writing a GUI text 17:48 spectator like that: { error_message = L"Texture does not work!"; errorstream<