Time Nick Message 00:46 asdflkj_sh how do I make an item edible? 00:50 asdflkj_sh on_use = minetest.item_eat(2), 00:51 asdflkj_sh (/me found it) 02:54 mazes_81 @TenPlusOne: I was a little bit ennoyed to see nothing can regenerate dirt_with_dry_grass, so I tweaked bonemeal to change dirt_dry to dirt_with_dry_grass when using mulch 10:03 [A_A] Apparently eating superapples while using luk3yx's cloaking mod crashes the server 10:04 luk3yx A wild Andrew appeared 10:04 [A_A] lol 10:04 luk3yx They probably use get_player_by_name somewhere 10:04 [A_A] http://ix.io/3xws 10:11 [A_A] luk3yx is cyan 12:29 independent56 What do you think of the first building in my new spawn? https://imgur.com/a/XyWf94U 12:36 sfan5 look good but I hope you'll put some greenery in your spawn 12:36 sfan5 just cobble is terribly boring 12:45 independent56 Good idea 12:45 independent56 I wasthining ofways touse that space 12:55 independent56 https://imgur.com/a/eVOJgLK 12:56 independent56 Here is some greenery. around the buildings,there will also be gardens 12:58 independent56 I stole the european idea of p-utting houses and shops in the same place 13:13 BuckarooBanzai independent56: is this a public server or still your local "sandbox"? 13:14 independent56 Nope, it's multiplayer: http://56i.duckdns.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=proposals:better_spawn 13:14 BuckarooBanzai "the server is very slow and is generally unplayable" :D 13:15 independent56 XD yeah, anyone outside my home will find it takes ages to laod a mapblock 13:15 independent56 Even me, myself 13:48 independent56 If my spawn was based of north american cities, then it would be a huge sroad with seas of parking and huge shop warehosues 13:53 specing and lots of cars WE copypasted all over the place 13:55 independent56 XD 13:55 independent56 And a few thousand blocks away is surburbia, with no paths and wide roads 13:57 independent56 My spawn has no space for cars. It is pure walkability. The only highway you will find is HP2 (more info: http://56i.duckdns.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=proposals:hiking ) 13:57 sfan5 game idea: you are a pedestrian in an american city and have to survive while being given tasks to follow various paths that span over well-used roads 13:57 sfan5 (there are no pedestrian crossings of course) 13:57 independent56 XD i wish i could code that 13:58 independent56 I might as well learn the API to make it 14:12 independent56 Calling the USA "America" is like calling Germany "Europe". 14:15 CWz I bet if you tell most US people that Canadians are also Americans they're mind would be blown or argue. 14:15 independent56 "Here in Europe, we get to our meetings not a second late!" 14:17 CWz probably why some think US has 52 states; since they count Mexico and Canada 14:17 CWz is england still a part of Europe 14:17 independent56 That's Northern america 14:18 independent56 CWz, More lilely Scotland or Northen Island will stay in europe ;-) 14:18 independent56 *northen Eire 14:20 CWz I not sure how a feel about US naming some of their places after existing non US places and just adding New as a Prefix 14:21 CWz Im gonna name my virtual city New Seattle or New Kansas 14:21 sfan5 New New York 14:21 CWz Doctor Who? 14:22 independent56 I'm gonna call New Spawn "NSpawn" 14:22 CWz I wonder what New Haven was named after 14:23 independent56 Because it's 1 - North of spawn 2 - New of spawn 3 - Who needs vowels? 14:23 CWz And where is the original Jersey 14:23 [A_A] CWz: New Haven is named after YL's haven 14:23 [A_A] Alias: or opposite? 14:24 [A_A] irrlichtmt wont build on arm64 14:40 Calinou > I'm gonna call New Spawn "NSpawn" 14:40 Calinou systemd-nspawn? :P 14:57 independent56 XD 14:57 independent56 Nah, it's just what i like to call it. It's NSP for advtrains 15:44 jonadab Eww, advtrains. 15:44 jonadab laaaaaaaag 15:45 jonadab Also, if you tell most _Canadians_ that they are American, they will be as offended as Canadians ever get. 15:46 jonadab i.e., they'll correct you and then probably apologize for doing so. 15:50 rubenwardy Whilst Canadians (and others) are technically Americans, colloquially it refers to US citizens only 15:52 rubenwardy also, United States of America is probably where American comes from 15:53 rubenwardy Germany isn't called the United States of Europe 15:53 sfan5 not yet ;-) 15:53 rubenwardy :D 15:55 jonadab I'm not sure how you figure Canadians are technically Americans. 15:56 jonadab "American" is a nationality, not an ethnicity. It refers to citizenship in a specific country. Canadians have their own version, "Canadian". 15:57 jonadab Where you tend to get confusion about this, is when native speakers of other languages (particularly Romance languages) get involved. 15:58 jonadab Because their cognate-word for American, means anyone from the Western Hemisphere. 16:00 jonadab But if that was ever the case in English, I'm not aware of it. Before America gained its independence, people who lived over here were called "Colonists" or "Colonials" in general, or for the specific colony they lived in, e.g., "Virginians". 16:00 rubenwardy Canada is in the americas 16:00 jonadab True. 16:00 jonadab But not relevant. 16:00 rubenwardy My point was that American refers to the USA, not to the americas 16:01 jonadab Yeah, people started calling themselves Americans, after the nation gained independence. 16:01 jonadab So it refers to the country. 16:01 jonadab Well, I think some may have started calling themselves Americans _during the revolution_, but that amounts to the same thing, since they ended up winning. 16:02 jonadab Canadians have never called themselves Americans, at any time in history, so far as I am aware. 16:03 jonadab (Well, maybe in a couple of places where minor border adjustments have occurred. Compared to most international borders, that one's been relatively stable, but there _have_ been a couple of small changes.) 16:03 rubenwardy There's a coffee shop chain near me (UK) called Boston Tea Party 16:03 rubenwardy They sell tea too, it would be ironic if it was only coffee 16:03 jonadab That's... interesting. 16:04 rubenwardy https://bostonteaparty.co.uk/ 16:04 jonadab Wait, ... I assume Boston (MA) is named after a previous Boston in the Old World, probably in England. Said tea shop isn't by any chance near that location, is it? 16:05 jonadab THAT would make the joke just so much better. 16:05 rubenwardy Boston is the other side of the country, unfortunately 16:05 jonadab (Nearly all the major cities in New England are named for Old-World places, usually in England, with a handful of notable exceptions like Providence.) 16:06 jonadab Aww. 16:07 jonadab (Our place names get more diverse west of the Appalachians, incidentally.) 17:12 Pexin Amerigo Vespucci gets way too much credit anyway 17:13 Pexin sfan5: isn't new new york from robocop? 17:40 jonadab Pexin: Eh, he's got two more continents named after him than any other single person. Is that not enough? 19:41 MTDiscord erlehmann: The Lua grammar is context-free (and can be parsed in linear time) BTW, wouldn't that fulfill the LangSec requirements? 19:45 erlehmann luatic i have no idea what specific requirements you refer to. 19:47 erlehmann luatic i would say, if you can build a recognizer that can distinguish valid from invalid inputs with 100% accuracy, that is a good start. surely for a subset of lua that is feasible, like for sending a lua table to a client. 19:47 MTDiscord From a brief skimming, it seems that they demand the input language - which in this case is Lua - is context-free or regular. 19:48 erlehmann have you read the two papers i linked? 19:48 MTDiscord I'm pretty confident LuaJIT has 100% accuracy regarding syntactical analysis 19:50 erlehmann you may be confusing two things here. a programming language often has a parsing and an execution state. 19:50 erlehmann perl for example can not be statically parsed 19:50 erlehmann lua can i guess 19:52 erlehmann the thing is, if you want to send lua code from a to b, creating the AST is usually not enough. it can be though, as in my example of sending a lua table. 19:53 MTDiscord Creating the AST is of course not the same as executing it. 19:53 erlehmann luatic if you do not claim to have read the two papers, i assume you have not and stop here until you claim you do. i do not have the time to explain everything. 19:53 MTDiscord Alright, I accept that. 19:53 erlehmann and in fact those writers can put it much better than i can do 19:55 erlehmann oh btw, for people who say everything works out if you do not care about things like langsec or the halting problem. that is – to borrow an expression from john regehr – the same as saying “you said that in basketball you can not hold the ball and run around with it. but i tried that and it worked out fine. obviously you have no idea about basketball!” 19:56 erlehmann obviously, there are technologies that cater to such people, usually marketed as “programming language for non-programmers”, like PHP 19:57 erlehmann (logically, things written in PHP are non-programs) 19:58 erlehmann luatic the two papers i have linked taken together are the most effective measure of boosting ppls programming skills once i have found. their are entire classes of errors that ppl who understand the langsec approach and follow it never make. 20:06 erlehmann luatic the trick is to realize that tim berners-lee (creator of the WWW) was right with his “principle of least power”: you get the best results when you represent the issues you have in terms of a languge with a grammar whose complexity exactly matches the problem. 20:06 erlehmann luatic “parsing html with regex” is where you have a grammar not powerful enough, so it is never correct 20:07 erlehmann luatic “creating html on the fly with maybe-never-terminating javascript” is where you have a grammar too powerful, so it is never correct 20:07 erlehmann html may be not a good example per se, but both of these abominations are widely done by developers who should know better 20:08 erlehmann to go back to minetest, i have yet to see a problem where the complexity that some ppl advocate should be solved by a CSM needs the full expressive power of lua 20:08 MTDiscord I like how you say you don't have time to explain everything, but then you do it anyways. 20:08 erlehmann usually it is something that can be solved with a static lookup table 20:09 erlehmann oh no, i just explain stuff that is not spelled-out in the paper 20:09 erlehmann for example, the paper does not actully say anything about minetest 20:09 erlehmann it may say something about regex and html though, so i may have lied just now 20:10 erlehmann Noodlemire good that you like what i do, i need fans! 20:47 MTDiscord Oh God I would never parse HTML with RegEx 20:48 MTDiscord I do know my fair share of how parsing is to be done though. 20:50 MTDiscord If something can be done using a DFA / regular expressions, I will do it that way. 20:53 erlehmann luatic well then what would you use CSMs for? 20:53 erlehmann i mean there are legit reasons for CSMs don't get me wrong 20:54 erlehmann it is just that most game logic i know does not need it 20:54 erlehmann and the strongest proponents of CSMs seem to be ppl who make server side mods but want something the engine does not provide 20:55 erlehmann the way gone so far is to carefully figure out which new capability you need and implement that 20:55 erlehmann btw, i for example, would like to have static formspecs in node definitions 20:55 erlehmann that way i don't have to store formspecs in node meta 20:56 erlehmann and can save that LBM whose name contains a hash of the formspec (so it gets executed when the formspec changes, to upgrade all echests) 20:56 MTDiscord ngl, that sounds pointless and dumb 20:57 MTDiscord the whole reason formspecs in meta is offered is so that they can be opened instantly by the client regardless of lag 20:57 MTDiscord but there a pain in the ass to update 20:58 sfan5 formspecs in nodemeta is on my todolist 20:58 sfan5 eh 20:58 sfan5 nodedef I mean 20:59 MTDiscord in what way? 21:00 sfan5 you mean how I plan to implement it? 21:00 MTDiscord Until formspecs are properly parameterizable, this is pretty useless 21:00 erlehmann Jonathon formspec in node definition would be instant too 21:00 erlehmann and even more efficient 21:00 erlehmann wuzzy actually had that idea of static formspecs 21:00 erlehmann and as i told you, it would make the LBM upgrade dance disappear 21:00 MTDiscord Yeah, no unneeded duplication of the same formspec string 21:01 MTDiscord "and can save that LBM whose name contains a hash of the formspec (so it gets executed when the formspec changes, to upgrade all echests)" 21:01 MTDiscord seems you want the same painful process of updating 21:02 erlehmann Jonathon no i just improved it so i never need to touch the LBM again unless i revert the formspec, in which case wtf am i doing 21:03 erlehmann Jonathon you can examine my approach here https://git.minetest.land/Mineclonia/Mineclonia/commit/f8c58262bc024659eb3ba53dbc006a917054ba7f 21:04 sfan5 you don't need an LBM to update when the formspec is in the nodedef 21:04 erlehmann sfan5 yeah but it is not, yet? 21:04 sfan5 correct, no such feature yet 21:05 MTDiscord sfan5: than that would be useful 21:05 MTDiscord however i assume you still would have to fall back to show_formspec if you want to control conditions? 21:05 erlehmann the thing is that mineclone2 had changed echests to not have the formspec in there, leading to massive lag (bc in general, mineclone2 devs care about singleplayer performance on beefed up gaming rigs and not much else) 21:06 sfan5 @Jonathon of course 21:06 erlehmann in the echest case that is actually relevant 21:07 erlehmann they changed it bc the echest should not open if something is above it 21:07 MTDiscord if you never put formspecs in meta, you would never need overhead of a lbm to update and/or remove it 21:07 erlehmann my response to that would of course be to either have 2 different echest nodes with triggers on node placement or having one and changing its formspec on node placement 21:08 erlehmann Jonathon yes, that is why i want the formspec in node definition 21:08 MTDiscord i mean, you screwed for all time anyways 21:08 erlehmann how 21:08 MTDiscord you need that lbm there for all time 21:08 erlehmann yes ofc 21:08 MTDiscord for echests 21:09 MTDiscord the probably with map editors is they only support certain features and certain sql backends 21:09 erlehmann ? 21:09 MTDiscord *problem 21:09 MTDiscord map editors are a alternative to having a abm running for all time 21:10 MTDiscord *a/lbm 21:10 erlehmann uh how 21:10 erlehmann i don't get it, what is a map editor and how can i invoke it in a mod 21:10 erlehmann is it some new function? 21:10 erlehmann i only know worldedit 21:11 MTDiscord im saying a map editor as a external program, some people have made them 21:11 erlehmann yeah ok but that is no solution for a mod 21:12 MTDiscord i mean, its not a nice solution 21:15 MTDiscord https://github.com/random-geek/MapEditr is a example 22:17 MinetestBot 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: CI: Bump IrrlichtMt to 1.9.0mt3 13beac4a2 https://git.io/JEQPN (152021-08-31T21:57:39Z) 23:00 erlehmann mcl_meshnode proven to work https://mister-muffin.de/p/RDjf.png