Time  Nick        Message
02:40 Corey[m]    How do I set the padding/margin/size-in-pixels of the hotbar, or is that fixed?
02:40 MinetestBot 02[git] 04lhofhansl -> 03minetest/minetest: Rely on max_simultaneous_block_sends_per_client to limit blocks sent … 13f43d1cf https://git.io/JTmcL (152020-10-14T02:39:43Z)
12:20 specing     Uhm so
12:21 specing     "Bitstream Vera Fonts Copyright:  Copyright (c) 2003 by Bitstream, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Bitstream Vera is
12:21 specing     a trademark of Bitstream, Inc."
12:21 specing     How can Minetest use these fonts if they are all rights reserved?
12:21 specing     What license is the preview mod under?
12:22 specing     It's missing a license header
12:22 specing     preview CSM*
12:25 Calinou     Bitstream fonts are under a free license, even if the copyright says "all rights reserved"
12:25 Calinou     BSD license templates typically have "all rights reserved" for instance
12:26 Calinou     but still, BSD 2/3-clause are OSI-approved and FSF-approved
12:26 Calinou     Corey[m]: I think it's hardcoded… do you mean the padding between individual items?
12:27 specing     Calinou: I see
12:27 specing     doc/client_lua_api.txt is missing an explanation on what a "mod channel" is
12:37 specing     What is _G in dump(_G)?
12:39 sfan5       the global lua environment
12:42 specing     thanks
12:42 specing     sfan5: what is a mod channel?
12:42 sfan5       lua_api.txt should have docs
12:53 specing     sfan5: if I interpret that image correctly, "mod channels" are like simulated dedicated sockets?
12:53 sfan5       sorta
13:02 specing     attempt to index global 'io' (a nil value)
13:02 specing     Is io not available to CSMs? How can I manipulate files?
13:05 sfan5       you can't
13:10 specing     sfan5: :(
13:10 specing     sfan5: I'll try to patch it the
13:10 specing     n
13:13 MTDiscord   <12W​arr1024> "All rights reserved" is meaningless.  It dates back to a time before statute made all rights reserved by default.
13:13 MTDiscord   <12W​arr1024> Putting it in a copyright statement IS a bit confusing, though, if you plan on immediately relinquishing a bunch of those rights via a free software license...
13:20 rubenwardy  You can use mod storage to save data, specing. But for security reasons, file access isn't allowed
15:29 specing     rubenwardy: I want to log my coordinates to a file
15:30 rubenwardy  mod storage is saved to a JSON file, which can be read externally
15:37 Corey[m]    Calinou: I found out later that the hud size is indeed hard coded, so no dice there, though if I can change the padding that should help slightly
15:37 Calinou     there's a client-side setting for the HUD size
15:37 Calinou     check the Advanced Settings menu
15:54 specing     rubenwardy: hmm
15:56 specing     How does one call commands registered with core.register_chatcommand? Preview mod registers a command "text", but /text is not found
15:57 rubenwardy  remove the /
15:57 MTDiscord   <12W​arr1024> I've written a couple of mods (szutil_offlinepos and nc_yctiwy at least) that keep track of a player's position continuously and store it in mod_storage.  This is sufficient if you only care about the current/most-recent location, and have a manageable number of players.  If you have thousands of players, or if you want to track a precise history of everywhere they've been, then I don't think MT offers a really great standard
15:57 MTDiscord   solution and you have to get a little creative.
15:57 rubenwardy  /text  = register_chatcommand["text"
15:57 rubenwardy  Warr1024: client-side mod, not server-side
15:58 MTDiscord   <12W​arr1024> Oh, interesting.  The Mumble Positional Audio thing might be the closest example for something like that that I know of.  It just uses print statements, though, and relies on a wrapper to parse the data stream and extract the position data.
15:59 rubenwardy  there was a user that made a cheating tool with a remote execution vulnerability by doing something like this
16:00 rubenwardy  they made a wrapper that watched the log for text like     @execute(myshell --command)
16:00 rubenwardy  the thing is that the CSM API isn't the only thing that logs, so a malicious server could cause lines like that to be printed
16:01 MTDiscord   <12W​arr1024> haha, wait, did they just accidentally introduce a vulnerability?  Or was it an intentional backdoor in case the cheat tool was used against the dev's own server?
16:01 rubenwardy  it was accidental, they weren't as good at programming as they thought they were
16:01 rubenwardy  their cheating tool consisted of a Lua CSM, a Python wrapper, and a JVM program
16:02 rubenwardy  the reason they had both a Java program and a Python one was because they thought that Java can't run other programs
16:02 MTDiscord   <12W​arr1024> Oh wow, I can't think of too many MT-community people who openly use the JVM :-D
16:02 MTDiscord   <12W​arr1024> OMG that's awesome ... and they chose Python for the role of shell glue language, of course :-DDD
16:04 MTDiscord   <12W​arr1024> Sounds like a mod that both enables cheats AND also punishes the user for cheating.  Way to play both sides.
16:05 rubenwardy  here it is: https://github.com/KaiGerdMueller/minetest-bot-collection
16:06 rubenwardy  note how all of the source code is in that .sh file
16:06 rubenwardy  except for the jar
16:06 rubenwardy  vulnerability: https://github.com/KaiGerdMueller/minetest-bot-collection/blob/master/install_kgms_cheat_autoclick.sh#L87
16:07 rubenwardy  oops, the branch above
16:07 MTDiscord   <12W​arr1024> Haha, IMG that's hilarious, you have to run that with sudo to install it :-DD
16:08 MTDiscord   <12W​arr1024> This doesn't look like the work of someone who's bad at programming, it really looks like the work of somebody who's very good at bad programming
16:09 rubenwardy  this code was used to eat apples automatically when damaged on CTF
16:10 rubenwardy  I wrote a mod on CTF to detect the use of this code. It worked by damaging players when in the end-of-match GUI. There was a hidden field in the end-of-match GUI which would detect keypresses. This cheat is fairly dumb, it would press the slot number eat time it ate. So, my detecter would check whether the field contained many identical digits
16:10 rubenwardy  it would then wait a random number of minutes, and ban the player
16:11 rubenwardy  I did it mainly to annoy KGM, and it worked - within a few hours, it caught him
16:12 MTDiscord   <12W​arr1024> haha, nice
16:12 rubenwardy  Minetest focuses the first field, so you can make fields with no size and no label
16:15 rubenwardy  I could have abused that remote execution vulnerability to run something like   `sleep 30; killall minetest`  but that's pretty certainly against the computer misuse act
16:18 MTDiscord   <12W​arr1024> sleep 30; shutdown -hp now
16:19 MTDiscord   <12W​arr1024> computer misuse act ... is that like a british Computer Fraud and Abuse Act or something?
16:19 rubenwardy  xdg-open https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
16:20 rubenwardy  Yeah, it's the main law that hackers are prosecuted under
16:20 rubenwardy  https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1990/18/contents
16:21 MTDiscord   <04L​one_Wolf> Would it be possible to add something to your server rules that allow you to get around that?
16:22 MTDiscord   <12W​arr1024> I dunno about where you live, but in the USA you can probably get past that by sending a chat message at join time saying "by playing on this server you agree to the terms in https://whatever/ctf-server-eula" or something.  Shrink-wrap contracts are legal here, it seems.  That EULA can simply state that they authorize you to send any data you want to their client and they accept responsibility for the consequences and indemnify yo
16:22 MTDiscord   against any damages.
16:22 MTDiscord   <04L​one_Wolf> heh, neat
16:23 MTDiscord   <04L​one_Wolf> CTF automatically shows rules to new players, could just pop something in there
16:23 MTDiscord   <12W​arr1024> The NodeCore Community server actually has essentially a shrink-wrap contact that you need to accept to play, and one of the things it states is that by playing you agree to retain copyright to anything you build, BUT irrevocably license all such work under CC0 terms.
16:24 MTDiscord   <12W​arr1024> You can actually still use and license your own builds under any other terms you want, in addition, but you can't deny others access to any use of any part of the full map dump, basically.
16:42 aperson9    hi
16:49 MTDiscord   <11J​onathon> hello
17:16 specing     rubenwardy: hmm, without / it gets forwarded to chat
17:16 rubenwardy  no, the name in the table does not include the /
17:17 specing     W​arr1024 Thanks, but this is also a practice for writing CSMs. I'd also like the stuff to be in a less memory intensive and easier-to-parse format, like CSV
17:17 rubenwardy  the chat command  /test   is    registered_chatcommands["test"]
17:17 specing     rubenwardy: okay, but it does not work
17:17 specing     hence me asking how to call them
17:18 specing     rubenwardy: the preview mod has core.register_chatcommand("text", {
17:18 rubenwardy  https://github.com/minetest-mods/irc_commands/blob/master/init.lua#L105
17:18 specing     but /text says "Invalid command: text"
17:18 rubenwardy  oh right
17:18 rubenwardy  the client-side prefix is `.`
17:18 rubenwardy  I think, there's a setting
17:18 specing     ah, that worked
17:19 rubenwardy  I thought you meant programmatically
17:36 specing     [PREVIEW][modchannels] Received signal id `0` on channel `experimental_preview
17:36 specing     Segmentation fault
17:37 specing     wow
17:57 Krock       pretty cool
17:57 Krock       though Minetest shouldn't crash from that
18:50 specing     Are the individual CSM restrictions documented somewhere?
18:54 Krock       minetest.conf.example and perhaps lua_api.txt
19:06 DS-minetest #1
19:06 ShadowBot   DS-minetest: Error: That URL appears to have no HTML title within the first 4KB.
19:07 DS-minetest #10493
19:07 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10493 -- Devtest: Add mod to enable and test zoom by paramat
19:07 DS-minetest #1
19:07 ShadowBot   DS-minetest: Error: That URL appears to have no HTML title within the first 4KB.
19:07 DS-minetest #1000
19:07 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1000 -- Fix entity duplication once and for all by celeron55
19:07 DS-minetest #7000
19:07 ShadowBot   DS-minetest: Error: That URL appears to have no HTML title within the first 4KB.
19:08 DS-minetest why doesn't work ShadowBot for all issues/PRs anymore?
19:08 Krock       perhaps the website format changed
19:09 DS-minetest so, it might be github's fault
19:10 DS-minetest when will minetest migrate to some other git service, like gitlab?
19:15 MTDiscord   <11G​reenXenith> Never, hopefully
19:15 DS-minetest huh, why?
19:16 MTDiscord   <04L​one_Wolf> I haven't found anything that beats my dark theme for Github so far
19:17 MTDiscord   <11G​reenXenith> Every other git host has more issues than is worth dealing with
19:17 DS-minetest micro$oft already changed some things in github (mostly design, afaik). and the plan was to emigrate out of github when things are getting worse
19:17 MTDiscord   <11G​reenXenith> I dont see anything getting functionally worse
19:18 MTDiscord   <11G​reenXenith> So they changed the UI a bit. Its not like GitHub wouldnt do that without Microsoft.
19:18 MTDiscord   <11G​reenXenith> Even with the UI changes, it is still way more usable than GitLab or others.
19:19 MTDiscord   <11G​reenXenith> And you also have to remember, GitHub is still GitHub. It's just a subsidiary of Microsoft.
19:21 DS-minetest could you give an example for something that makes gitlab less usable?
19:22 DS-minetest also, a problem with github is that minetest has less contributors. of course it's still github, but there are people who ran away
19:23 MTDiscord   <11G​reenXenith> The login system is jank, the performance sucks, repo navigation is unintuitive (or was, that may be fixed).
19:23 MTDiscord   <11G​reenXenith> I am fairly certain we have gained more contributors since the Microsoft acquisition than we lost.
19:31 MTDiscord   <11G​reenXenith> IMO, people that refuse to contribute because Minetest uses GitHub are like the people that think this Discord server/bridge shouldn't exist: Generally unhelpful and not good for the community (with some exceptions, of course).
19:35 sfan5       "I think other people should not be able to use their prefered platform" and "I will not contribute to this project because they use a platform I avoid" are entirely different standpoints
19:35 MTDiscord   <11G​reenXenith> That is a fair point
19:36 MTDiscord   <10H​exBubble> He green can you check #servers ?
19:36 MTDiscord   <10H​exBubble> Thanks that would help.
19:36 MTDiscord   <11G​reenXenith> Hey Hex can you not ask offtopic questions in offtopic channels? Thanks.
19:36 MTDiscord   <10H​exBubble> What?
19:36 MTDiscord   <10H​exBubble> Oh okay Thanks
19:36 MTDiscord   <11G​reenXenith> Anyway
19:41 MTDiscord   <11G​reenXenith> "I will not contribute to this project because they use a platform I avoid" as a reason itself is perfectly fine. Avoiding GitHub like the plague because Microsoft saved it from imminent death is not fine. The amount of effort it takes to use burner information to avoid the posibility of sketchy businesses acquiring your info is negligible. Using GitHub does not mean "I support Microsoft and their business practices and values"
19:42 MTDiscord   <11G​reenXenith> It's less the standpoint I dont like, more the reasoning behind it.
19:43 DS-minetest huh, I didn't know that github was dying
19:48 Flitzpiepe  what can be used then for common projects?
19:50 rubenwardy  not using a platform because it's owned by a company you see as malicious is a better reason than not using a platform because you can't be bothered to learn its interface or sign up to it
19:51 MTDiscord   <11G​reenXenith> I didnt say I couldnt be bothered to learn the interface or sign up. I said the interface is unintuitive to use and the login system (not sign up) is janky
19:51 MTDiscord   <11G​reenXenith> Just because a parent company may be malicious doesnt mean the subsidiary suddenly is
19:51 SwissalpS   lol rubenwardy :)
19:52 MTDiscord   <12W​arr1024> I can't remember off the top of my head, but there are products/services that I do not use specifically because too many people have told me I should use them.
19:52 SwissalpS   if you want to help a project along, it should not matter where the code is hosted
19:52 MTDiscord   <11G​reenXenith> Exactly
19:53 MTDiscord   <12W​arr1024> What matters is whether you want to help the project more than you want to not use the tools the project is using.
19:53 SwissalpS   and git makes it so easy, you don't need to use the interface for the most part
19:53 SwissalpS   only to sign up and upload your key
19:53 MTDiscord   <12W​arr1024> If "I don't like GH" is enough of a reason for you not to contribute to MT, then you didn't really want all that strongly to contribute in the first place.
19:53 rubenwardy  in which case, you can move to GL
19:54 rubenwardy  Warr1024: you underestimate how much people dislike microsoft
19:54 rubenwardy  they just need to dislike microsoft more than liking minetest
19:54 MTDiscord   <11G​reenXenith> What do we need? Matrix for git? Unify the git hosts? Geez.
19:54 rubenwardy  there's one good contributor we've mostly lost because of this: pgimeno
19:55 MTDiscord   <11G​reenXenith> My point is that disliking Microsoft is not a good reason for disliking GitHub
19:55 rubenwardy  I think it is
19:55 MTDiscord   <11G​reenXenith> They are completely different companies
19:55 MTDiscord   <11G​reenXenith> GitHub didn't suddenly adopt Microsoft business practices and values
19:55 MTDiscord   <11G​reenXenith> It didnt suddenly become Microsoft
19:55 MTDiscord   <11G​reenXenith> GitHub is still GitHub
19:55 rubenwardy  they're not completely different, because microsoft is a majority stakeholder
19:56 specing     Krock: I've grepped and grepped to no avail
19:56 specing     Krock: also no mod seems to be using those
19:56 specing     DS-minetest: enjoy the lock-in
19:57 MTDiscord   <11G​reenXenith> Even if you truely believe GitHub may as well be Microsoft, there is not much keeping you from using burner information for a GitHub account.
19:57 rubenwardy  Minetest saw a large increase in users when Minecraft was bought by Microsoft
19:58 rubenwardy  for a long time, that day was the peak visitors on the forums and website
19:58 MTDiscord   <11G​reenXenith> Mojang was already killing Minecraft before Microsoft bought it
19:59 MTDiscord   <11G​reenXenith> Microsoft didn't change the development direction, it just sped it up (because money)
20:00 specing     I have a github account, but I've decided to no longer use it for FOSS development
20:00 specing     cca 18 months ago
20:01 specing     Now contributions to github projects are 1) attempt to send patch by email, 2) drop patch into pastebin and paste into IRC  3) screw it, I'll just maintain my fork
20:01 Krock       specing: preview is a CSM in clientmods/
20:01 specing     Krock: I know
20:03 rubenwardy  fwiw, I don't dislike GitHub
20:07 rubenwardy  #7901
20:07 ShadowBot   rubenwardy: Error: That URL appears to have no HTML title within the first 4KB.
20:08 rubenwardy  !title https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/7901
20:08 MinetestBot rubenwardy: Accepting PRs/patches from non-Github users · Issue #7901 · minetest/minetest · GitHub
20:08 sfan5       MinetestBot fetches up to 16KB to look for a title
21:21 jfindlay    having worked at microsoft, I can say that it's more likely that microsoft is becoming more like github than the other way around.  Also, microsoft is an old, huge company with hundreds of divisions doing all kinds of things; the new guard is very ascendant and even owns the office of the CEO.  The Gates/Ballmer days of aggressiveness or loyalty over technology are long gone.  They are open sourcing
21:28 MTDiscord   <10J​ordach> honest the move from office cubicles to a university campus like setup has proven wonders for cross pollination of ideas and things