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IRC log for #minetest, 2020-10-02

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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05:31 MTDiscord <G​enshin> is there a reason why version key for get_player_information() is disabled on release clients?
05:31 MTDiscord <G​enshin> why not just keep it enabled?
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07:07 Guest72 Hello
07:08 tapuz Is it possible to install Minetest server 5.x on Ubuntu 18.04? I did it w/ debian-backports (doesn't work on ubuntu)
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07:25 Elouin tapuz: https://launchpad.net/~minetestdevs/+archive/ubuntu/stable
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10:46 sfan5 @G​enshin the reason is that we don't want mods go and parse the version numbers to determine if a feature works or doesn't
10:47 sfan5 because when someone forks MT and resets those version numbers all the detection goes out the window
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13:57 MTDiscord <J​ordach> so what’s the problem with exposing the Project name to servers
13:57 MTDiscord <J​ordach> So the idiots with the DF are rekt on join
13:57 MTDiscord <J​ordach> sfan5, ^
13:58 sfan5 would be cool I guess but it'd be precisely 4.9 minutes until that is patched by the clients author
13:58 MTDiscord <J​ordach> We both know the DF client authors userbase have little to no intelligence of how it works behind the scenes
13:59 MTDiscord <J​ordach> All I need is a PDB and CE
13:59 rubenwardy Dwarf Fortress?
13:59 sfan5 a what and a what?
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14:41 MTDiscord <J​ordach> 🐉
14:41 MTDiscord <J​ordach> Should be a hint if utf8 behaves
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15:06 thomas-minetestb hello, we have big problems on our server: some players won't respawn. Has anyone an idea about the reasons and how to fix it?
15:06 heavygale what happensinstead?
15:07 thomas-minetestb the player is laing on the floor like dead
15:07 thomas-minetestb a kick doesnt help
15:09 thomas-minetestb it only happens to some players
15:09 thomas-minetestb is there a command to respawn players as server admin?
15:09 Emerald2 Don't they have a respawn button?
15:10 thomas-minetestb no, and /killme doesnt help
15:10 thomas-minetestb seems like the player database is inconsistent or sth like that
15:10 rubenwardy what if they log out and in?
15:11 rubenwardy what Minetest versions? Server and client
15:11 thomas-minetestb @rubenwardy: that doesnt help
15:11 rubenwardy oh right, a kick
15:11 thomas-minetestb It's the german Corona Bildungs-Server in the server list.
15:11 rubenwardy !server Corona Bil
15:11 MinetestBot rubenwardy: Der Corona Bildungs-Server | 193.31.25.235:30003 | Clients: 2/120, 2/14 | Version: 5.2.0-dev / minetest | Ping: 24ms
15:11 thomas-minetestb compiled it on the server in March
15:12 rubenwardy hmm, I remember player damage changes around then
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15:12 rubenwardy it might be worth updating the server to 5.3.0
15:12 rubenwardy or downgrading to 5.2.0
15:13 heavygale no problem - i can respawn
15:13 thomas-minetestb strange behavior.
15:13 heavygale just tried it out
15:13 thomas-minetestb yes, it only happens to some players. Strange.
15:14 thomas-minetestb for example player Ju
15:14 thomas-minetestb wait, I can reset him an login as Ju
15:15 heavygale is the spawn priv new? may he's missing it
15:15 thomas-minetestb now come to Ju
15:16 thomas-minetestb is there a direct respawn command?
15:17 thomas-minetestb Ju has spawn privilege
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15:32 thomas-minetestb @heavygale, thanx for Your help, let's see if it works
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16:15 MTDiscord <G​enshin> sfan5, with all due respect I still fail to see a problem with keeping version key enabled for release clients.  I honestly find it to be a very useful key for certain things.  But anyways If it can't be done then that's understandable, priorities comes first afterall.
16:16 sfan5 what are "certain things" here? anti-cheat?
16:16 MTDiscord <G​enshin> Besides anti-cheat, backwards compat stuff
16:18 sfan5 ideally there wouldn't be any need to use the engine version for compatibiltiy detection, we're aware of that
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16:26 MTDiscord <J​ordach> There should be
16:26 MTDiscord <J​ordach> Forks are not always compatible even if they bear the Minetest name
16:29 MTDiscord <J​ordach> I don’t wish to support outdated clients because they either use a cheat client or have crap mobile devices
16:30 MTDiscord <G​enshin> With version check, you could make a feature that grants a knockback substitute to those that dont have version 5.3.0 or higher  Its just an example
16:31 MTDiscord <G​enshin> or like jordach said, limit client versions access to a server
16:31 rubenwardy knockback was added in 5.1 though?
16:32 rubenwardy is there a bug fixed with it?
16:32 MTDiscord <G​enshin> Was it?  I dont recall seeing a knockback property though on 5.1.0-dev
16:32 rubenwardy protocol_versions are intended for doing things like this. The protocol version just wasn't bumped between 5.2 and 5.3
16:32 rubenwardy yeah, I'm fairly sure knockback was in 5.1
16:33 MTDiscord <G​enshin> Strange, is it associated with lua entity properties?  Or is it a separate thing?
16:34 rubenwardy I'm confussled
16:34 MTDiscord <J​ordach> https://dev.minetest.net/Changelog
16:35 sfan5 lua entities have no knockback, but you could always use move_to for them
16:35 sfan5 or add_velocity
16:35 rubenwardy player knockback was added in 5.1.0  https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/291e7730cf24ba5081f10b5ddbf2494951333827
16:35 sfan5 <J​ordach> I don’t wish to support outdated clients because they either use a cheat client or have crap mobile devices
16:35 sfan5 we have strict_protocol_version_checking for that
16:36 MTDiscord <J​ordach> Then why is it just documented in conf
16:36 rubenwardy so  `if mientest.get_player_information(name).protocol_version >= 38 then   -- can use knockback   end`
16:36 MTDiscord <G​enshin> Ah i see, its a tool capability property
16:36 rubenwardy minus typo
16:37 sfan5 do you think it should be documented in the wiki too?
16:37 rubenwardy there's no tool capability property - it just happens on punch
16:37 rubenwardy the register on punch callback calls add_player_velocity to do knockback
16:41 MTDiscord <J​ordach> > do you think it should be documented in the wiki too? Bruh moment
16:41 MTDiscord <G​enshin> ^
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16:42 MTDiscord <J​ordach> The fact that people don’t want to read a 4000 line conf document proves this already
16:43 sfan5 so do you think it should be in the wiki or not?
16:43 MTDiscord <J​ordach> Obviously
16:43 MTDiscord <G​enshin> Anyway It's okay if it can't be done, i have no problem with sticking to debug clients
16:43 MTDiscord <J​ordach> It allows for translated versions should someone spend the time and write one
16:44 rubenwardy For that particular case, why not protocol version?
16:46 MTDiscord <G​enshin> Because i actually want to remain to see/use this information, protocol version just rejects older clients. Which is not part of my goal as a server owner
16:47 rubenwardy Protocol version tells you the protocol version of each client
16:47 rubenwardy Which can be mapped to the minetest version, except for 5.2 and 5.3
16:47 MTDiscord <J​ordach> And that’s what we don’t want
16:48 MTDiscord <J​ordach> Server operators don’t want to deal with your core dev mistakes ever
16:49 rubenwardy Protocol versions really aren't that bad, they're much easier to compare than versions
16:50 MTDiscord <J​ordach> Canned bullshit
16:50 rubenwardy They should be documented more in lua API, and updated more consistently
16:50 MTDiscord <J​ordach> Bruh
16:50 MTDiscord <J​ordach> Core devs being consistent
16:50 MTDiscord <J​ordach> What a load of shit
16:51 sfan5 so how is "5.1.0", "5.2.0" better than 38, 39?
16:52 MTDiscord <J​ordach> >no backporting of anti cheat to build 5.3.1
16:52 rubenwardy You could even have a helper function to compare string versions with protocol versions, or get protocol versions from string versions
16:53 rubenwardy Although, this would only work with versions the current version knows about
16:53 MTDiscord <G​enshin> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/761631974674268180/url6.jpg
16:53 rubenwardy There's a backport branch for 5.3.1 with some anticheat fixes
16:54 MTDiscord <J​ordach> >ignoring the fact lots of servers are having dragon fire problems
16:55 rubenwardy The reason that protocol versions should be used instead of string versions is because minetest is open source - forks may change the version number to suit their own needs. Protocol numbers is the versioning that is independent from marketing
16:55 rubenwardy Ah, that's what df is
16:55 sfan5 Jordach can you actually answer my question instead of distracting with other things?
16:55 rubenwardy I've been meaning to try that
16:55 MTDiscord <J​ordach> The conf example is horseshit and needs to be replaced with a tiny bite sized wiki
16:56 sfan5 okay who will do the work?
16:56 MTDiscord <J​ordach> Reflex
16:56 MTDiscord <J​ordach> Regex
16:56 sfan5 the example config is generated from settingtypes.txt so you could probably just make a wiki out of that
16:57 sfan5 or a HTML page
16:57 rubenwardy I can create you a forum account if you need one
16:58 sfan5 I think you meant wiki
16:58 MTDiscord <J​ordach> Even a markdown document with hyperlinks to each part would be better
16:59 rubenwardy Oops yea
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17:06 Calinou comparing a version can be easy if you convert the version identifer to a comparison-friendly form
17:07 Calinou 5.3.0 -> 503000
17:07 Calinou (allows each version number to go up to 99, which is good enough for our needs)
17:07 Calinou you could use an hexadecimal form too
17:07 Calinou but again, I think 99 is enough :)
17:09 Calinou actually, 5.3.0 would be (0)50300
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19:25 MTDiscord <B​enrob0329> Its funny, I've recently found some Wikis that usr Git and Markdown as their backend...
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