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IRC log for #minetest, 2020-05-17

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Time Nick Message
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01:26 luvo Is there anyway of stopping fall damage? apart from a deep watter hole?
01:27 luvo in minetest_game
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02:20 kaeza luvo, either water or ladders IIRC
02:21 kaeza but take it with a grain of salt; I've been off for almost 3 years
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08:57 Krock luvo: bouncy nodes
08:57 Krock or write a mod that overrides fall damage with 0
08:59 ANAND Krock: I think they're asking for an in-game solution
08:59 Krock mods are in-game solutions
09:00 ANAND :)
09:03 luvo thaaank you guys!
09:04 Krock !next
09:04 MinetestBot Another satisfied customer. Next!
09:04 luvo hahahaha
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10:27 nadav Im trying to start a server using my pi
10:28 nadav I downloaded the minetest server from the debian sid repos
10:28 nadav but im getting this error message
10:29 nadav https://pastebin.com/yTDpKYhQ
10:29 nadav thank you very much!
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11:06 sfan5 nadav: I don't see any useful log output in there
11:07 sfan5 except maybe the signal=ILL suggesting that the binary you have uses CPU instructions you're missing
11:08 nadav that would make sense
11:08 nadav I tried compiling it but it took 5 hours and was barely even on 20%
11:09 nadav becauase im on a pi..
11:09 nadav I think its a pi1
11:11 sfan5 you need an armv6l binary then
11:13 Emerald2 Do you know where he could get one?
11:14 nadav Could I try to compile it on my main PC then port it over
11:14 sfan5 you can but cross-compiling is certainly not simple
11:14 nadav I assume there is a flag that I can enable to make the compiler do it for ATM
11:14 nadav oh
11:14 nadav *ARM
11:15 sfan5 the rpi1 will be too slow for "serious" server usage but if you want to play around with it can I can cross-compile a binary for you
11:15 nadav yes!
11:15 nadav that would be amazing!!!!!
11:16 nadav I just need it for maybe 2 or 3 people
11:16 sfan5 are you running raspbian 10? or 9?
11:17 nadav 10
11:18 nadav pi@raspberrypi:~ $ uname -a
11:18 nadav Linux raspberrypi 5.4.40+ #1316 Tue May 12 12:59:15 BST 2020 armv6l GNU/Linux
11:18 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1316 -- Online mod repository is broken on master
11:19 nadav *10.4
11:20 sfan5 hm, raspbian buster for pi1 is the same download as all the others right?
11:20 nadav ummmmm, I dont know
11:20 nadav do you mean the img file for flashing it?
11:20 sfan5 yes
11:20 nadav I think so
11:21 nadav I'm not sure though
11:23 sfan5 hm yes should be alright
11:24 luvo you don't see this in many development teams!
11:24 nadav what?
11:24 luvo a dev cross compiling for a user hahaha
11:25 luvo which is incredibly cool
11:34 nadav ikr
11:36 sfan5 nadav: https://kitsunemimi.pw/tmp/minetestserver-5.2.0-rpi1.tar.gz
11:36 nadav omg
11:36 nadav thanks!!
11:36 sfan5 you can extract it and run ./bin/minetestserver, it will keep all files (world, config, ...) in the same folder
11:37 Emerald2 You're the best, sfan. :)
11:38 nadav omg thank you so much!!!!
11:38 nadav your the best :)
11:40 sfan5 since the rpi is slow you might want to look into these https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1825
11:42 nadav so should I paste this into my config?
11:43 sfan5 probably
11:44 nadav sick!
11:44 sfan5 maybe just the last two though, everything related to block_sends is for saving bandwidth
11:46 nadav what does active_block_range do?
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11:48 nadav also were is config file located
11:49 sfan5 minetest.conf where all the other folders are by default
11:50 sfan5 you can create it if it doesn't exist or specify a different location using --config
11:50 sfan5 minetest.conf.example documents what the settings do
11:51 nadav oh all right
11:52 nadav so should I rename minetest.conf.example to minetest.conf
11:52 sfan5 no
11:52 nadav so I should just edit it directly?
11:52 sfan5 create a new, empty minetest.conf where you put your settings
11:53 nadav sounds good
11:53 sfan5 (you can also rename and edit, but personally I find it more useful to keep minetest.conf.example as a read-only reference)
11:54 nadav That makes sense
11:54 nadav and I make it in the top level directory
11:54 nadav ?
11:55 sfan5 in the same directory with bin, games, mods, textures, ... yes
11:55 nadav yes thank you!
12:52 nephele I am tempted to can the hud api and try to make a new one
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12:52 nephele it's quite hard to make a predicatable hud with it... and impossible to do so while having it properly scalled .-.
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14:51 appguru The server list should probably be moderated, as some servers are using bot players to boost their popularity. Those servers should probably be warned and later penalized (by manually decreasing their "score").
14:57 sfan5 source?
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16:24 appguru sfan5: Source? As in, a citation to prove that some servers are using bot players?
16:28 rubenwardy n. ย Guest123's law: any Android player is indistinguishable from a bot
16:30 sfan5 appguru: yes
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17:08 nephele lol, why go to the effort of having bots if you can just lie to the listing server
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17:18 appguru lying would be more obvious I guess
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17:18 appguru but a server lying to the listing server would definitely require a penalty
17:21 jas_ !server
17:21 MinetestBot jas_: THE CREATIVE GARDENS | animine.org:53000 | Clients: 0/15, 0/3 | Version: 5.2.0-animine / minetest_game | Ping: 81ms
17:22 jas_ no problem
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17:25 oil_boi Bots?
17:30 oil_boi also texmex the abillity to just hover over a node or entity and have it do something will be extremely useful, I can create different things with this, you can create ideas with this and I will set a on_hover function for nodes and entities built into the crafter game api
17:31 appguru it's pretty easy actually, just a globalstep + a raycast
17:31 appguru (and probably checking for tool range if it matters for your usecase)
17:31 oil_boi Yes but a clientside version so that players cannot abuse lag to look around things like endermen
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17:48 texmex oil_boi: exactly my thinking as well. Basically a SSM able to register callbacks in the CSM so that the CSM alerts the SSM whenever a node/entity of pointed at.
18:02 oil_boi So how it will work is client does 0.05 second tick using after, registers if node or entity has on_hover, tells server using serialized table or entity, server deserializes table or entity and executes entity or node on_hover
18:03 oil_boi I might have to use globalstep with a tick toggle with on and off state so that it does it at half the fps of the client to save a little performance
18:04 oil_boi Offtopic: Also I just calculated the miles with the idle hours on my CVPI and it's at 455364 miles per ford holy shoit
18:06 oil_boi I'm not sure how much impact doing a raycast every client frame will actually have though as WAILA uses 0.1 fps tick
18:07 appguru The client already does a raycast every frame I think
18:07 oil_boi 0.01*
18:07 oil_boi appguru is there any way to access that information through csm?
18:07 appguru most likely not
18:07 oil_boi Oof :L
18:08 oil_boi Maybe I could just bolt the on_hover library to waila?
18:09 MinetestBot [git] rubenwardy -> minetest/minetest: Add core.open_url() to main menu API (#8592) a9c3a42 https://git.io/JfETu (2020-05-17T18:09:10Z)
18:14 sfan5 2020-05-17 20:14:08: ERROR[Server]: Server::ActiveObjectMgr::addActiveObjectRaw(): no free id available
18:14 texmex <oil_boi "Maybe I could just bolt the on_h"> Thatโ€™s how I did it, yeah.
18:14 sfan5 I think I might have dropped too much sand
18:16 oil_boi Oh my, yes that happens to me too when I go nuts with a level 50 swiftness, durable, and fortune gold shovel
18:17 oil_boi texmex, I will look into this then, maybe it would be more intelligent to use a global step for the waila loop instead and change the lua file to pointing.lua
18:17 sfan5 ERROR[Server]: suspiciously large amount of objects detected: 2223 in (1,-1,24); removing all of them.
18:17 sfan5 :DDD
18:18 Krock woth it
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18:37 oil_boi There's gotta be a better texture for leaves
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18:45 appguru I'm currently wondering: what would be the best way to show node hp?
18:45 appguru Options I have considered:
18:45 appguru - Multiple registered nodes
18:46 appguru - paramtype2 = color indexing an alpha palette, "blend-in"-crack texture
18:47 oil_boi node hp? Like how far in the digging animation it is?
18:48 appguru Sort of
18:48 appguru But I plan to use it for explosions etc.
18:48 appguru And only for a few special nodes
18:48 oil_boi Why not just use meta data then
18:48 appguru Because I want it to show somehow
18:48 appguru So that you can see: ah, this node has low HP, TNT-time
18:49 oil_boi HMMM, if you're only doing it for a few nodes then use multiple nodes
18:49 oil_boi I'm gonna guess, zelda breaking the wall with a bomb type of execution
18:49 appguru Probably multiple nodes combined with paramtype2 = color?
18:51 oil_boi Ooo that's a good idea
18:52 oil_boi I could have sworn we had a way to modify nodes in the terrain
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18:57 oil_boi Animated sprite textures seem to be broken oh nu
18:58 appguru I had considered tile animations as well, but I think they lack the required persistence?
19:05 oil_boi lbm set self tile location?
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19:37 MinetestBot [git] sfan5 -> minetest/minetest: builtin: Move common/async_event.lua to mainmenu/async_event.lua 11723cf https://git.io/JfEIS (2020-05-17T19:37:01Z)
19:37 MinetestBot [git] sfan5 -> minetest/minetest: content_mapblock: Move static initialization out of functions 52430d3 https://git.io/JfEI9 (2020-05-17T19:37:01Z)
19:37 MinetestBot [git] sfan5 -> minetest/minetest: Client: Add sum and average to packetcounter be38a44 https://git.io/JfEIH (2020-05-17T19:37:01Z)
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20:05 oil_boi Is animating nodes possible yet?
20:06 nephele depends
20:07 nephele You can make a node that has an animation plaing all the time afaik, but no arbitrary animations based on node content or so
20:08 nephele (unless you register all possible states as seperate nodes and switch between them)
20:08 oil_boi Is there a way to make the node only play the animation once?
20:09 nephele Hmm, i think there was a way to pause the animation, but don't quite me on that :g
20:09 nephele If you want to play it once you could swap between an animated and non-animated variant i gues
20:09 nephele kinda like the mtg furnace switches between active and non-active mode
20:12 fluxflux I'm trying to fix a longstanding issue, in which a player can place a node over the top-half of a travelnet, which causes Problems. For anyone not familiar, the upper half of a travelnet isn't a separate node, but just a mesh/collsion box extended to 2 blocks high. What needs to be done, is to check that the node below isn't a travelnet node and prevent the placement. `minetest.register_on_placenode` feels like it's called
20:12 fluxflux too late (i'd have to properly remove the node and re-add it to the player's inventory). i can't see any way to add behavior to the travelnet itself to prevent this, outside of some complicated mechanic that makes the upper half a proper node somehow. should i override `minetest.place_node`? is there a cleaner way to do this?
20:13 oil_boi fluxflux when a player places a travelnet it needs to create a fakenode on top of it that's drawtype is airlike and when it is on_destruct, then remove the node above it otherwise it will happen
20:13 fluxflux yeah, that's an option, i feel like there ought to be a simpler way...
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20:14 sfan5 what oil_boi describes is how doors do it and it's been solid
20:14 fluxflux ah interesting
20:14 oil_boi You can set this with on_construct, pos.y = pos.y +1 minetest.set_node(pos, {name="mod:fakenode"}) and then repeat the function on destruct but do minetest.remove_node(pos)
20:14 sfan5 and by the way if you wanted to do it the other way you'd override `minetest.item_place_node`
20:14 fluxflux maybe i can copy over the code from doors
20:15 oil_boi Maybe I can help you even further and create a comment on travelnet
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20:17 oil_boi Sokomine, I am looking through the code and will help this become a non-issue, because I have seen this a few times
20:17 fluxflux i wish you luck w/ that, i've had little luck getting Sokomine to accept PRs :)
20:18 nephele oil_boi, by the way, i tried the quickloot thingy, it's not quite possible yet, i could make a very simple version that has a special icon for each item/node and use the limited keybinds available, but that is not that nice :)
20:19 oil_boi nephele you should try to combine it with a client mod and check the scrolling of the hotbar to navigate through the submenu and rightclick leftclick to do certain things in it
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20:22 oil_boi So I was able to replicate the issue https://i.imgur.com/ZwkT4bC.png
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20:26 nephele oil_boi, i am only using a client mod anyhow
20:26 nephele hmm, what do you mean with the scrollbar?
20:26 oil_boi Hotbar, you can scroll through elements if you check the hotbar selection position
20:27 nephele I think i may actually be able to obtain the texture names if i make a server mod for it and use mod channels to send them, for some reason the current csm does not allow me to check the tiles definition of nodes
20:27 nephele oil_boi, hmm, what call would that be?
20:27 nephele like players wield index or so?
20:28 nephele Okay, i could use that for selection i suppose
20:28 nephele but right and left click i can't really catch reliably (so you don't accidentally interact with the enviroment)
20:29 nephele so might use e to interact and shift+e for "entire stack" or so
20:32 nephele oil_boi, okay, i can try it again tommorow utilizing the wield index and a serverside component
20:32 nephele but it is gonna be somewhat hacky ;
20:32 nephele :D
20:36 Sokomine fluxflux: hmm. travelnet and travelnet elevator use diffrent technics in this. i'm undecided as to what is the best approach...but yes, placing something where the upper part of a travelnet is might cause problems with arriving players
20:37 nephele only if the upper part has a collision mesh that is a problem, if you have to have one you could even make it match the one of the lower part of the travelnet
20:38 Sokomine oil_boi: hmm. if this happens so often i probably really will have to take a look at it and place a fake node. vanessae also reminded me that there's work to do on my travelnet
20:38 Sokomine fluxflux: i'm just lazy. it's not that prs are unwanted or anything. i just...keep looking at my repros from time to time (which might even be months or years between) and fix one in on go. unless i notice something myswelf and get aware of a problem
20:39 Sokomine it's in general best to msg me here or send a forum pm. and to repeat the process until i've fixed it :-) don't bother too much that that might be considered spam...a friendly reminder won't :-)
20:39 fluxflux i thought busy, i don't blame you, and appreciate what you've done
20:39 fluxflux (afk for a bit)
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20:40 Sokomine yes, busy sometimes as well. but a reminder is always welcome
20:41 Sokomine so please don't feel bad if your pr isn't regarded immediately. it may take...time...until i'll reply :/
20:41 oil_boi Sokomine https://github.com/Sokomine/travelnet/pull/57
20:41 oil_boi Here is a quickfix to solve the problem, this can be worked upon
20:45 oil_boi VSCode messed up the indentation but that can easily be fixed
20:47 oil_boi Also this disallows liquids to flow into the travelnet and elevator which was something else I tested
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21:24 oil_boi yo leo_rockway you find anything else?
21:24 oil_boi I'm trying to kill any bugs before I move onto mob pathfinding optimization
21:25 leo_rockway oil_boi: I found that I can't run Crafter unless I'm on latest dev and MineClone2 doesn't support latest dev. So I find myself switching from one to the other, haha.
21:25 leo_rockway oil_boi: I actually found an issue, but I don't know how it happened or how to replicate it. I built an aether portal and it didn't transport me anywhere. So I built another one next to it, and that one worked.
21:25 leo_rockway nothing meaningful in the console output.
21:26 oil_boi Aw man, yeah. I think it's kind of ironic one game supports latest dev but aims to be an old build and the other wants to be latest and only supports stable
21:26 oil_boi That's actually what I expected, that whole portal api needs a rebuild
21:27 oil_boi I've never seen anyone do portals like that before, so I will try to improve it
21:27 leo_rockway but I like the portal transition. I wish I hadn't watched the video in advance. It would've been a pleasant surprise.
21:27 oil_boi Thanks bro
21:27 leo_rockway I like that animals look at the player, that's huge. The animals in all other games look like droid animals.
21:28 oil_boi There's gotta be some way to do that with 100% consistency without causing lag
21:28 leo_rockway I feel that the fx for hitting mobs is weird. It's a metal fx, even when I hit a pig with my bare hand.
21:28 oil_boi Hell yeah man, next step, the mob looks all the way to the direction before even moving then starts to move smoothing out their head animation
21:29 leo_rockway oil_boi: I don't know what's different in the animation of the creeper in Crafter vs MineClone2, but Crafter's one seems more vivid. I think it's his feet that make the difference.
21:29 oil_boi Yeah, it's actually broken right now, I'm not sure what is causing it exactly
21:29 oil_boi leo_rockway are crafter and MC2 using the same animation?
21:30 leo_rockway it seemed somewhat different to me.
21:30 oil_boi Err model not animation
21:30 oil_boi I will download mc2 and test it rn
21:30 leo_rockway I think the model is the same, the animation looks different to me, though. In MineClone2 creepers kind of look like they are levitating. Their feet are kind of weird.
21:30 leo_rockway I don't know if it's just my perseption, though.
21:30 leo_rockway perception*
21:31 leo_rockway oil_boi: I haven't checked the nether yet. I didn't have flint and steel to ignite the portal.
21:31 leo_rockway I saw that you fixed that now.
21:33 leo_rockway I really like MineClone2, but the mobs need tlc. So I like Crafter mobs so far.
21:33 oil_boi Oh, well the first thing I found was the animation for the creeper is incorrectly set via 22i's model, I just punched it and it lit, then didn't do anything, I kept punching it and nothing happened, then I backed away and my headphones capped out when it reignited 500+ times in 3 seconds :(
21:34 leo_rockway oil_boi: I don't recall, but it might be that your bare hand does no damage to the mobs in MineClone2.
21:35 oil_boi Holy crap you're right
21:35 leo_rockway the whole damage thing needs rework. If you wear armor you're pretty much unkillable.
21:35 leo_rockway it's reported, so he's aware.
21:35 oil_boi Maybe I can help the project, but I cannot find a github page for it
21:35 sfan5 !mod mineclone2
21:35 MinetestBot sfan5: Convert Minetest world to Mineclone2 WIP [gt2mc2] by maikerumine - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=17907 - https://github.com/maikerumine/gt2mc2
21:35 sfan5 no not that
21:36 leo_rockway oil_boi: I'll get you the link.
21:36 sfan5 either way mineclone uses some niche git hosting site
21:36 oil_boi That is definitely not good
21:36 leo_rockway https://git.minetest.land/Wuzzy/MineClone2/
21:37 oil_boi Ooooh
21:37 Wuzzy !mod is broken
21:37 leo_rockway I understand him not wanting to use Github.
21:37 oil_boi Wuzzy can I create a git clone on github and then just send you a link to all the fixes?
21:38 leo_rockway I don't really like nonfree software, and in the case of Github it's kind of concerning that MS could at any time decide to get rid of Minetest. It might be a paranoid thought, but MS has done bad things in the past.
21:38 Wuzzy of course you can clone mineclone2 ๐Ÿ˜†
21:38 oil_boi Oh yes, I have that same fear, that's why I have over 20 backup sights when I create any commit
21:38 Wuzzy its even in the name ๐Ÿ˜†
21:38 sfan5 "Microsoft deletes random project because they felt like it" is a PR nightmare and not realistic
21:39 Wuzzy i hope you all have backups of all the issues. just saying
21:39 Wuzzy github is at least kinda usable without activating JS hell
21:39 leo_rockway sfan5: it is, but MS has done really bad stuff in the past. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween_documents
21:39 oil_boi I only have one thing to add to this to qualm any fear ย https://github.com/torvalds/linux
21:39 Wuzzy which is the reason why I do not avoid GitHub competely
21:40 Wuzzy I do avoid Transfex since a good while tho
21:40 Wuzzy because its literally JS hell
21:40 Wuzzy yes, i also dislike MS, but thats not the reason why i dislike GH
21:40 oil_boi If the creator of git uses github, I think it is safe, just create backups
21:41 leo_rockway oil_boi: Torvalds was perfectly happy using BitKeeper too.
21:41 oil_boi I have...5228 versions of crafter backed up alone
21:41 sfan5 leo_rockway: I am aware of that
21:41 Wuzzy It's still concerning that a single hoster hosts so many many repos at once
21:41 Wuzzy single point of failure
21:41 rubenwardy !mod [mineclone2]
21:41 MinetestBot rubenwardy: There are no results for this query :(
21:41 oil_boi Whoa no, this is turning into a non-solvable argument
21:42 Wuzzy !mod MineClone 2
21:42 MinetestBot Wuzzy: MineClone 2 by Wuzzy - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=16407 - https://git.minetest.land/Wuzzy/MineClone2
21:42 Wuzzy aha! there we go!
21:42 oil_boi Anyways, Wuzzy I will help you with the damage if I can wrap my head around the damage system
21:42 rom1504 "js hell", are you stuck in 2000 Wuzzy ?
21:43 Wuzzy current year argument detected
21:43 oil_boi That's why I built my own damage system, I couldn't understand other ones, and it was ultra extremely annoying
21:43 Wuzzy have you looked at Transifex's source code? then you'll understand. ๐Ÿ˜€
21:44 oil_boi If you look at the linux source code then the java script argument becomes a grain of sand in the test of time
21:44 Wuzzy thats not really the reason...
21:44 rom1504 ah you mean the code is bad ?
21:45 rom1504 I see a lot of python in their github org
21:45 Wuzzy lets just say i dont trust the company
21:45 Wuzzy I also dont avoid *all* of the JS.
21:46 Wuzzy but i only turn it on when i absolutely must, AND i am not distrusting the source. the more complex the JS, the harder it becomes to convince me to turn it on ๐Ÿ˜‰
21:46 oil_boi No, I mean, it's creating minor memory leaks. I'm not saying I could make literally anything anywhere close to Linux kernel, but I do not want to create shit code that Linus has a heart attack over
21:46 rom1504 ok so you do mean you don't want to use js in a browser
21:46 oil_boi I have a feeling wuzzy uses links
21:46 Wuzzy thats not what im saying...
21:47 rom1504 why do you like better all the bad c and c++ code that make your apps ?
21:47 Wuzzy huh? links? of course i do. i mean links are the bread and butter of the WWW. using the web without clickable links seems ... strange?
21:48 oil_boi I come from a time where exiting and joining a game caused minetest to use 5GB on the main menu due to memory leaks, I would have to say we are fine
21:49 oil_boi Also it seems we are all putting out our anger individually on individual things, so please, get it out right now in furious texts
21:49 Wuzzy i believe the memory leak is still not fixed... ๐Ÿ™
21:50 oil_boi I will start: IT SHOULD f***** NOT take 3 seconds for a website to load on 100MBPS internet
21:50 Wuzzy Word!
21:50 oil_boi I believe you are RIGHT, and we should fix it
21:50 oil_boi BUT, HOW, will we fix it? WHERE is the memory leak coming from?
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21:50 Wuzzy back to topic... something about memory leak. when i restart my game over and over again my memory usage is only going up
21:51 Wuzzy the only way to make it go away is to close minetest. way to fill up 8 gigs really fast. yes, something is really wrong here
21:51 oil_boi One second, I shall restart my client over and over again for the next 5 minutes
21:51 Wuzzy nonono
21:51 Wuzzy i mean, restart the game in minetest, not minetest itself
21:51 nephele oil_boi, btw, yesterday you said you want to get a game like feed the beats, have you ever played the minecraft modpack "big dig"?
21:52 Wuzzy if you restart minetest, your memory is freed again
21:52 oil_boi Yes I have and it has not solved my desires, but I shall need a few minutes to monitor this issue I am testing
21:53 oil_boi My base at main menu: 56MB
21:55 nephele I can kinda reproduce that, seems to help the usage if i load more chunks
21:55 nephele on 5.3-dev
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21:55 oil_boi I will not continue any further: in the time it took from me to post that original comment and keep restarting the game, 1.5GB memory usage
21:56 leo_rockway Wuzzy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Links_%28web_browser%29
21:56 leo_rockway I'm guessing that's what oil_boi was talking about.
21:57 nephele oil_boi, well, that mod pack (especially the bountifull earth) aswell as buildcraft in it and industrial craft (i think?) are some of the inspiration i have for my subgame
21:57 leo_rockway I try to avoid JS too. It makes websites gigantic for no reason.
21:57 nephele so i thought it was pretty interesting that you also seem to want to move in a similar direction
21:57 oil_boi I may reiterate, again, where in the source code are we creating new memory spaces for all of these variables in the engine's source code? Is it item or node or tool definitions? Is it compressed cached textures?
21:59 oil_boi nephele I will look at your game soon
22:00 oil_boi This seems like it's almost perfectly fitting the definition of every node and entities mesh whether or not it uses a mesh, as if it is keeping them in memory
22:00 leo_rockway oil_boi: how does running / fov work in a server? is it still fine or is it too hacky to let it work correctly there? I feel that it works great in singleplayer.
22:00 leo_rockway s/running/sprinting
22:01 oil_boi Oh trust me leo_rockway it's laggy as in MC, the only solution to this is CSM, sadly
22:01 oil_boi I cannot work around the anchors of the engine
22:02 leo_rockway oil_boi: is there any limitation to keeping it CSM?
22:02 appguru leo_rockway: servers, mainly
22:02 leo_rockway oh, of course. Silly question, haha. Thanks appguru
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22:03 oil_boi Oh absolutely, right now CSM is owned by the clients namespace, a server cannot maintain what code is run in client it only can communicate with it, the solution that has been brought forth is: the client receives the CS mods from the server and it cannot be touched, because at that point you are working with 1s and 0s trying to hack it
22:04 oil_boi You can hack my Crafter mods like there's no tomorrow
22:05 oil_boi A server being able to modify what the client is running in that sense would be the equivalent to accidentally installing a keylogger on your computer
22:05 oil_boi It's not remotely the same based on the current code that is enabled in the game, but I hope you understand my point
22:06 leo_rockway yup, I got it.
22:06 oil_boi Just like mod security, there is definitely a way to upload client mods from the server and having the client actively interpreting the code in a safe way
22:07 nephele Garry's mod had a model like that, funnily enough on one fatefull night someoen managed to abuse a server and client exploit to have a self-replicating virus over gmod that infected servers and then its clients, and then clients infected severs :D
22:07 nephele It only made you spam *cough* in the chat though, and join the steam universe chat to caugh there, and caugh to your steam friends... not that hostile as such (was named the cough virus cus of that)
22:07 oil_boi That's sadly what happens when valve employees run 18 hour days without communicating with their security division of developers
22:08 nephele gmod is not made by valve
22:08 nephele it's made by facepunch
22:11 oil_boi Ahh I see GMOD is using the builtin libraries from source
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22:12 oil_boi So in the sense we are talking about it, networking, yes, yes it is
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22:12 nephele They use large parts of the source engine indeed, but they cook their own sauce so to speak :P
22:13 nephele The exploit also relied on the ability to execute lua code, so you know, nothing other valve games had to deal with
22:23 leo_rockway oil_boi: if you work on mobs / damage in MineClone2 and Wuzzy likes the changes and merges them, that's going to be so awesome.
22:24 leo_rockway I'm not a gamer, but I've been playing MineClone2 the last few days. I feel that the mobs are just dumb, sitting in water for the most part (I have a lake in front of my house and mobs tend to get stuck there).
22:24 leo_rockway also, villages with villagers would make the exploring part more fun too.
22:24 leo_rockway I know MineClone2 has come a long way, though.
22:25 leo_rockway I've been "playing" Minetest shortly after it came out. Minetest Game is not fun. I understand it's a proof of concept of sorts. I see MineClone2, Crafter and some others as actual games.
22:26 leo_rockway I tried The End for a bit yesterday and it seemed fun too. I was on the dev branch, though, so it crashed on me.
22:37 oil_boi Just like Windows or Linux is just the base it takes people to build upon it
22:38 leo_rockway yeah, I think the Minetest engine is neat.
22:48 jas_ i couldn't do mc2, because it makes too many assumptions
22:49 jas_ it's nice to play a regular game and then mod it, MTG is a good, stable, regular game
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23:06 oil_boi jas_ Yes, that is the beauty of open world games, you can do whatever you want and no one gets to tell you otherwise
23:07 oil_boi For example, my implementation of drowning and hunger will probably make like 40-200 people hate me, and that's alright, modify that shit
23:08 oil_boi But if a base game is too boring to the point where it detracts people from getting that inspirational spark, then there is a problem
23:09 nephele In mtg i just turn off damage, it's only annoying :P
23:09 oil_boi Even chips challenge has plenty of people modifying it, so we must aim to have that level of introductionary modification ability from someone who has not created any type of source code
23:10 oil_boi We must aim to be "chips challenge of a 3d open world game"
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23:28 Fear_ joined #minetest
23:29 cheapie If only --migrate-auth gave a progress indication... migrating 433k players takes quite some time :/

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