Time  Nick             Message
01:38 NoInternet       Hello
02:31 theenemystando[m hello
02:54 tf2ftw           hello
02:57 orbea            rubenwardy: Maybe minetest should also have "eating" added to the list of damage types? e.g. registering a node with something like: on_use = minetest.item_eat(-5, "vessels:glass_bottle")
03:08 VanessaE         small announcement:  I've just started an "anarchy" server, VE-Chaos.  daconcepts.com port 30010.  unmoderated, limited area protection, PVP, some weapons, hostile mobs, mgv7, not a huge lot of mods (but enough to be interesting), interact by default, runs MT 5.1.1
03:09 VanessaE         it's a bit less hardcore than my skyblock server :)
04:55 MinetestBot      02[git] 04nerzhul -> 03minetest/minetest: Add PostgreSQL authentication backend (#9756) 13e564bf8 https://git.io/Jfqt8 (152020-04-27T04:54:48Z)
05:00 MinetestBot      02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix truncation warning for F1000_MIN, F1000_MAX 13515d38a https://git.io/Jfqtu (152020-04-27T04:58:34Z)
05:00 MinetestBot      02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: script: Put getGuiEngine() inside a client-only #ifdef 138a03097 https://git.io/Jfqtz (152020-04-27T04:58:34Z)
05:00 MinetestBot      02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: builtin: Correctly indicate failure in /spawnentity 13d3f50f2 https://git.io/Jfqtg (152020-04-27T04:58:34Z)
05:00 MinetestBot      02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: script: Fix add_entity returning unusable ref if object deleted in on… 13f6f6dd1 https://git.io/Jfqt2 (152020-04-27T04:58:34Z)
05:04 MinetestBot      02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: Script: Enforce type checks if not nil (#9748) 13be71e70 https://git.io/Jfqtw (152020-04-27T05:02:39Z)
07:36 jas_             sweet
09:27 MinetestBot      02[git] 04nerzhul -> 03minetest/minetest: Forbid object:attach(obj, ...) (#9762) 1391c4f7f https://git.io/Jfqcf (152020-04-27T09:27:27Z)
11:20 * twoelk         doesn't agree with Wuzzy's LegacyModList banner on the minetest wiki
11:20 Wuzzy            why not
11:21 Wuzzy            Hand-editing the list of mod is extremely error-prone and ContentDB is superior to wiki in almost every aspect
11:24 twoelk           for one the cdb has not and probably should not make any reference to historic mods
11:26 twoelk           while hand edited lists can point to old mods that might be usefull to undesrtand current situations, developments or issues
11:27 twoelk           especially the mods-for-learning list contains more than just a list of mods
11:27 Wuzzy            yet none of the pages is laballed as a collection of historic mods
11:29 twoelk           the lists should probably warn that they may be outdated but deleting them is not that helpfull
11:30 twoelk           a lot of entries in the mobs list mention in the individual entries that the mods may be outdated, simply old or might be abondened
11:31 Wuzzy            I'm effectively banned from JT2 now ?
11:32 Wuzzy            I lost the interact privilege
11:32 twoelk           haven't connected there much lately
11:32 Wuzzy            Without interact I can't even eat and I will soon starve
11:33 Wuzzy            I messed around with the safe too often ?
11:33 twoelk           actually haven't done much mt related during corona at all ...
11:35 Wuzzy            Current JT2 server is a test server anyway, but its running for almost a month now and people have built cool buildings already
11:36 twoelk           seems I had one of the few non healthcare, non foodselling etc. jobs that had a rising workload :/
11:36 twoelk           er - still have
11:40 twoelk           but regarding the wiki or even both wikis, I simply don't like it if information, even if it is outdated is simply deleted.
11:41 Wuzzy            What's worse than no information is incorrect or misleading information
11:42 Wuzzy            I'm still strongly in favor of deleting all function pages on the Dev Wiki as redundant
11:42 Wuzzy            too many modders seem to rely on it,which causes huge trouble
11:43 twoelk           sorry I totally disagree on the statement - better nothing than something wrong- in regard of information
11:44 twoelk           maybe some more -asofdate- statements should be included though
11:44 Wuzzy            But the dev wiki is the reason for big confusion among modders. they rely on fake API calls which are simply not correct and then are surprised why stuff doesn'T work
11:44 Wuzzy            The API documentation is in lua_api.txt. Period.
11:45 Wuzzy            Hand-replicating API functions for each function in the wiki is and was a terrible idea. its not maintainable at all.
11:45 Wuzzy            its really no surprise why the functions in dev wiki are so horribly outdated. there are simply too many pages you'd have to touch. nobody does that
11:46 twoelk           if you say The only autorative API dokumentation is in lua_api.txt I totally agree with that
11:46 twoelk           but even to fix old mods to current standard it may be usefull to know how it worked bevor
11:47 Wuzzy            the functoins in dev wiki were just ripped from lua_api.txt at one point, then never updated. this is completely wrong
11:47 Wuzzy            Well that argument is pointless as the function docs in wiki are not versioned
11:47 Wuzzy            if you want to have old version docs, use git checkout <version>
11:48 Wuzzy            There are many better solutions to look up old version docs. The wiki is not one of them.
11:48 twoelk           the fragmentation in myriads of subpages is something I have disliked from the start but never fought against
11:49 Wuzzy            thats not really the problem with the wiki
11:49 Wuzzy            ideally the Lua API docs are autogenerated
11:49 twoelk           absolutely
11:50 Wuzzy            then we would even have a fancy HTML doc that is even official
11:50 twoelk           yep
11:50 twoelk           so who does it?
11:50 Wuzzy            nobody, as always
11:51 Wuzzy            i would have deleted the function pages a long time ago, but i can't
11:51 Wuzzy            and the wiki admins cannot be reached ?
11:59 * twoelk         sadly views the backlog of stuff he wanted to do on the wiki
12:07 rubenwardy       <f44336twoelk> for one the cdb has not and probably should not make any reference to historic mods
12:07 rubenwardy       CDB shows results from the forums. Not that that helps currently....
12:09 rubenwardy       [12:50:08] <558b2fWuzzy> then we would even have a fancy HTML doc that is even official
12:09 rubenwardy       We do: https://minetest.gitlab.io/minetest
12:09 rubenwardy       Needs to some issues to be fixed with search accuracy
12:59 * twoelk         thinks the autoformated lua_api actually looks quite good
13:36 tf2ftw           how do you get the players name? Seems that all lua api player calls require the player name but I'm not seeing any functions to get that..
13:36 rubenwardy       player:get_player_name()
13:36 tf2ftw           * the current player
13:36 rubenwardy       there is no current player
13:36 tf2ftw           well then. thanks
13:37 rubenwardy       Minetest mods are multiplayer by default, you're given `player` to get the info from :)
13:38 tf2ftw           ok so something like this should work? minetest.get_player_name(player.name) ?
13:38 tf2ftw           wait - sorry, nvm. I see player:get_player_name()
13:39 tf2ftw           I haven't gotten past this error
13:40 tf2ftw           attempt to index global 'player' (a nil value)
13:40 tf2ftw           the code is simple: attempt to index global 'player' (a nil value)
13:40 tf2ftw           local player = minetest.get_player_by_name(player:get_player_name()
13:50 calcul0n_        tf2ftw, this might return nil if the player is not connected
13:50 tf2ftw           calcul0n_, found how to do it. Thanks
14:22 rubenwardy       get the name from the player, so you can get the player from the name?
14:24 sfan5            minetest.get_player_by_name(minetest.get_player_by_name(player:get_player_name()):get_player_name()))
14:24 sfan5            18<rubenwardy18> We do: https://minetest.gitlab.io/minetest
14:24 sfan5            if this was one-page it would be perfect
14:24 sfan5            I do not want to navigate through two menues to search for "node_drops"
14:25 rubenwardy       being multiple pages is good for SEO
14:25 rubenwardy       but you can have a mix in the same generation
14:25 sfan5            surely an additional page with everything on one can be added
14:26 twoelk           maybe a printable version?
14:39 freelikegnu      is there a way to get the minetest api into the eclipse LDT?
14:40 sfan5            "into"?
14:41 freelikegnu      I mean for autocompleting, explainging methods, etc
14:42 sfan5            check where it gets its completions from, and see if you can add custom ones
14:43 ANAND            Maybe a plugin could parse the files in src/script/lua_api?
14:43 ANAND            It's probably a little harder than that though
14:44 rubenwardy       VSCode has autocompletion using GreenDimond's plugin
14:44 ANAND            There are Class methods, etc.
14:44 rubenwardy       https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=GreenXenith.minetest-tools&ssr=false
14:44 ANAND            Wait what?
14:44 ANAND            Nice!
14:44 rubenwardy       it's not very good, but it's better than nothing
14:44 rubenwardy       I blame not very good on Lua though
14:44 rubenwardy       there's also formspec code highlighting
14:45 ANAND            This is very neat
14:45 sfan5            oh that's very cool
14:45 ANAND            I'm getting it right now
14:45 sfan5            the engine should probably provide a machine-readable dump of all methods
14:45 sfan5            to make such projects easier
14:45 sfan5            s/projects/extensions/
14:46 rubenwardy       formspec code highlighting: https://rwdy.uk/mlmie.png
14:46 ANAND            sfan5: Agreed
14:53 freelikegnu      I rather avoid VSCode for personal rasons
14:54 sfan5            there's an OSS version
14:54 sfan5            you should be able to disable everything regarding auto-update, tracking and "experiments" (as MS calls them)
14:57 freelikegnu      thanks but I'd rather not rely on MS for anything if I dont have to
14:57 freelikegnu      I really have to move off github
14:58 rubenwardy       you're not relying on them, you can change editor anytime
14:58 rubenwardy       VSCodium is the OSS version of VSCode with MS stuff removed and a nice brand
14:58 sfan5            I don't think that's a very good argument
14:59 freelikegnu      I was just curious about some help with eclipse, not argue about choise of editors
14:59 blaise           gitlab is a better platform anyway
14:59 rubenwardy       I'm not arguing about choice of editors?
15:00 rubenwardy       you can take the list that the VSCode plugin uses and use it in eclipse
15:01 rubenwardy       freelikegnu: https://github.com/GreenXenith/minetest-tools/blob/master/snippets.json
15:01 rubenwardy       Gitlab has a lot nicer features, the pipelines are great
15:01 freelikegnu      blaise, yep probably gitlab and notabug are probably what I'll be pushing to
15:01 rubenwardy       I've moved to Gitlab because of the CI
15:02 rubenwardy       and also because GitHub is relying on MS
15:02 blaise           which seems to constantly be going down on a minute to minute basis..
15:02 freelikegnu      thanks rubenwardy I'll try that snippet
15:03 sfan5            I doubt eclipse understands it in that format, but at least you have something to work with
15:03 rubenwardy       I brought up the plugin to say that it's possible, not to suggest switching
15:03 rubenwardy       yeah
15:03 rubenwardy       the generator script is in that repo, too
15:05 freelikegnu      I was really hoping for a way to somehow use the lua_api.txt as it is updated
15:05 rubenwardy       that's what the generator script does
15:07 freelikegnu      cool
15:37 rschulman        Is the forum really slow/non-responsive for anyone else?
15:38 sfan5            not just you
15:38 sfan5            it's been like this for weeks
15:38 sfan5            unfortunately
15:38 sfan5            (a solution is being worked on)
15:45 freelikegnu      is there a patreon for hosting? I'm happy to contribute $1/mo
15:46 sfan5            there isn't
15:51 MinetestBot      02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix detection of in-place path_locale when RUN_IN_PLACE=0 13ca8957f https://git.io/Jfqry (152020-04-27T15:50:05Z)
15:51 MinetestBot      02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Add STATIC_LOCALEDIR to BUILD_INFO and move it to version.cpp 1313a8ea2 https://git.io/JfqrS (152020-04-27T15:50:05Z)
17:00 edwardloveall    Hello. Is there a way I can edit a page on the wiki? I looked around for a sign up or create account link and couldn't find one
17:03 Krock            edwardloveall: PM your email to Calinou
17:03 Krock            the forums would provide information about that... but well, they're kinda down
17:04 edwardloveall    thanks Krack, I'll do that
18:45 MinetestBot      02[git] 04Adriankhl -> 03minetest/minetest: Remove /LTCG from when compiling with clang-cl (#9765) 13aef59f2 https://git.io/JfqMA (152020-04-27T18:44:52Z)
18:48 MinetestBot      02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Rewrite builtin item entity to use collision info 13b9377f2 https://git.io/JfqDI (152020-04-27T18:45:46Z)
18:48 MinetestBot      02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Expose collision information to LuaEntity on_step 133475759 https://git.io/JfqDL (152020-04-27T18:45:46Z)
20:46 tf2ftw           Hi
20:51 tf2ftw           Is there a list of mod API hooks? I'm looking at lua_api.txt but md saved as a text file isn't the easiest documentation to navigate. Something like Ldoc would be nice http://stevedonovan.github.io/winapi/api.html
20:55 sfan5            you mean a straight list of methods?
20:58 GreenXenith      There is a ReadTheDocs version of the API http://minetest.gitlab.io/minetest/ (not sure how up-to-date it is..) and there is a PR by Benrob0329 to convert the .txt to .md with better linking
21:01 tf2ftw           the lua_api.txt is nice if you're looking for a walk-through but not great for quick look-ups.
21:01 tf2ftw           GreenXenith, thanks for the link
21:02 sfan5            it's not?
21:02 GreenXenith      Once you know what youre looking for, lua_api.txt is more than enough
21:02 GreenXenith      ctrl+f == win
21:02 sfan5            lua_api.txt is a great quick reference, everything on a single page and you can just use your browsers search
21:04 tf2ftw           I guess its not beginner friendly
21:04 tf2ftw           at least not what I'm used to
21:28 rschulman        From another beginner modder, tf2ftw is 100% correct. A long ass txt file is NOT the best place to point people who want to learn about minetest modding.
21:28 GreenXenith      Thats why we point beginners to the modding book instead :)
21:30 tf2ftw           GreenXenith, the modding book isn't that great. It's an appreciated start for sure but I'm a dev by trade and would rather see the API docs than a tutorial that feels like it doesn't paint the entire picture.
21:30 GreenXenith      I know it isnt great
21:30 tf2ftw           to be clear - im not trying to complain
21:30 GreenXenith      But its "better" than a "long ass txt file" for some people
21:31 tf2ftw           I appreciate all the info out htere
21:32 sfan5            I have never read it, but I the modding book is aimed at beginners
21:32 rschulman        What I wish I had found much earlier was the ReadTheDocs version of the API.
21:32 sfan5            once you have all the concepts down you'll want to get comfortable with lua_api.txt (or a variant of it such as the gitlab thingy)
21:32 oil_boi_         Oh my god sfan5, what if we had a modding book aimed at intermediate and advanced modders
21:32 rschulman        IMO it should replace the txt file.
21:32 GreenXenith      IMO #9564 and some more love to the documentation is the best solution
21:32 ShadowBot        https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9564 -- WIP: Convert Docs To Markdown, Improve Navigation and Linking by benrob0329
21:32 sfan5            oil_boi_: do I hear a volunteer writer
21:33 oil_boi_         sfan5, Yes!! That sounds like an extremely fun project
21:33 sfan5            I do wonder which stuff falls into "intermediate and advanced" though
21:33 rschulman        And yeah, the modding book is definitely a great resource.
21:33 GreenXenith      Yeah, intermediate/advanced is relative, too
21:34 GreenXenith      The API documentation would be fine if it was consistent and people weren't so fussy about using .md for it
21:35 oil_boi_         Anything is relative, doing set_node is advanced to anyone that's never programmed before, a book that shows multiple examples on how to utilize functions with other functions, methods with other methods that blend them together would probably make mods in minetest go from cool, to insane
21:35 GreenXenith      A majority of mods haven't even reached the "cool" stage yet :)
21:36 oil_boi_         :L I don't want to admit that's right but you are right :(
21:36 tf2ftw           I've always felt there are only 2 difficulty categories: "hello world" and everything else. There is a hello world version of everything - basically how to get started. Everything else should be up to the dev to dive into
21:36 rschulman        Yeah, I'm sorry, what on earth is the deal with the .md hate?
21:36 rschulman        Something about windows not being able to open it?
21:37 sfan5            a .txt file is easier to work with
21:37 GreenXenith      Is it, though?
21:37 sfan5            however that shouldn't be much of a concern since the install scripts can rename the file
21:38 sfan5            the ability to link to individual lines is not something I'd like to lose though
21:38 GreenXenith      If you read the PR discussion, you'd see that ability is not lost.
21:38 rschulman        How, exactly?
21:38 GreenXenith      Markdown linking is not limited to headers
21:40 tf2ftw           i take md over txt all day
21:40 oil_boi_         sfan5, I have an insane idea: when 5.3.0 is released, I do a video series on every single thing documented in the lua_api.txt :P
21:40 tf2ftw           at least there is some type of format/standardization (for the most part)
21:40 GreenXenith      Actually, I take that back. Linking is still limited to headers, but placing headers is obviously not limited.
21:41 sfan5            GreenXenith: section links is not quite the same
21:41 sfan5            oil_boi_: that sounds like it'd take .... forever
21:42 sfan5            for example https://github.com/benrob0329/minetest/blob/md_api/doc/lua_api.md I can't link to exactly the line with "get_look_yaw()" here
21:42 oil_boi_         sfan5, Yeah I'm gonna scrap that idea after unlocking my scroll wheel and flinging it, only to have it still take 25 seconds to scroll down the entire doc :< :< :<
21:43 GreenXenith      Id do it
21:43 rubenwardy       the modding book increases in complexity and does cover advanced concepts like LVMs, but yes - it's a guide and not a reference
21:43 GreenXenith      Someone made a video that covers every single Blender shader node
21:44 GreenXenith      I could totally do the same thing but for the Minetest api
21:45 GreenXenith      Its only 8000 lines
21:47 jas_             oh my gaahhhhd
21:51 GreenXenith      Euf, I just scanned through Benrob's .md API ... I prefer how the .txt looks :I
21:51 rubenwardy       oil_boi_: the book is aimed at beginner and intermediate modders. What would an advanced one even contain?
21:52 GreenXenith      Markdown really bloats everything up
21:52 oil_boi_         multiple ways to show how to pass through data into other api calls
21:52 rubenwardy       what does that mean?
21:52 rubenwardy       like contexts?
21:52 oil_boi_         One second
21:52 GreenXenith      That sounds like a Lua thing
21:53 GreenXenith      And a not very advanced thing, at that >u>
21:53 GreenXenith      Really, advanced modders shouldn't need a guidebook
21:53 rubenwardy       the philosophy of the modding book is to be a collection of chapters which can be read individually, but together cover the core parts of the API
21:54 rubenwardy       yeah, once you get to that level you should be reading a reference
21:55 rubenwardy       It aids the goal of "doing 'hello world' and then diving into anything else". It's largely inspired by ReadTheDocs and the game programming patterns book
21:55 GreenXenith      I started modding before the modding book even existed .. so I don't think I've ever actually used it as a reference :]
21:55 rubenwardy       as did I :D
21:55 rubenwardy       I've seen Jeija use it though, that was cool
21:57 oil_boi_         Oh, I just realized that if there is no creativity then no matter what you show someone they will emulate what you showed them
22:02 oil_boi_         Also rubenwardy I've used your book, it is helpful
22:17 oil_boi_         Also I've discovered something extremely unfortunate, it seems the player look height is 1.625 when in reality the camera is at approximately 1.485
22:32 GreenXenith      I just made a one-liner to read the lua_api.txt at ~750wpm ... so you could read the entire thing in 1.5 hours
22:34 nephele          oil_boi_, based on what? @camer height
23:07 oil_boi_         nephele, your actual camera, using raycasting to override engine raycasting selection
23:12 oil_boi_         nephele, https://youtu.be/0nbz9Bq_H6U discovered while doing this poop
23:12 oil_boi_         !title
23:12 MinetestBot      oil_boi_: Crafter - Gravity Gun - YouTube
23:47 oil_boi_         I have a reasonable question: How to hide a player's nametag?
23:49 GreenXenith      oil_boi_: set_nametag_attributes with transparent colorstring
23:50 oil_boi_         Omazing, thank u
23:50 oil_boi_         No seriously thanks
23:57 oil_boi_         GreenXenith, you've made the world a better place yo https://github.com/oilboi/Crafter/commit/c041d642eb08102c9256ebe40905613a5444bdd7
23:57 GreenXenith      Make sure you save the previous state and restore it when not sneaking
23:59 oil_boi_         GreenXenith, it's done automatically
23:59 GreenXenith      (x) doubt