Time  Nick             Message
00:00 nephele          if you can freeze the state the players are in you could also make severall screenshots from different positions, and then catch up on player movement or so
00:00 rubenwardy       Mostly fixed maps
00:00 appguru          TBH one should just record actions to be able to make screenshots later on when replaying
00:00 rubenwardy       Requires intervention
00:00 rubenwardy       Less fun
00:01 rubenwardy       Having a system to take screenshots and then rate the interesting-ness of them is a cool problem
00:01 rubenwardy       But can end up very computer-visiony
00:01 nephele          stir the pile of data till it starts loooking right ;)
00:05 appguru          data science in a nutshell
00:11 appguru          nephele: are you https://github.com/nephele ?
00:12 nephele          no
00:12 nephele          I am not on github
01:36 tf2ftw           majochup, apologies
01:43 tf2ftw           how does the gold key work? Can I lock a regular chest?
02:25 freelikegnu      howdy all
02:46 Copenhagen_Bram  hai
07:08 cheapie          Gotta love it when functions don't do what the docs say they do...
07:08 cheapie          The docs state that minetest.forceload_free_block() "stops forceloading the position"
07:09 cheapie          But... nope, it just decrements the reference count (that minetest.forceload_block() had been incrementing) and then only actually does what it says *if* the reference count becomes zero. Grr.
07:10 * cheapie        just had to manually free a bunch of stuff since a mod had been using it the way it says it's supposed to work, and as a result wound up with hundreds of mapblocks forceloaded that shouldn't have been, some of them tens of millions of times over.
09:46 theenemystando[m is there a way to get the name of the game for the current world?
09:47 theenemystando[m i'm new to minetest's API, apologies if it's an obvious problem
09:49 sfan5            there is certainly no obvious way
09:50 theenemystando[m how would mods implement cross-game compatibility then?
09:50 theenemystando[m or is it not implemented yet?
09:51 sfan5            check if an item, node or API specific to a game exists
09:51 theenemystando[m that sounds unassuring - what if a game is just a really close fork of the original?
09:52 theenemystando[m can't expect a mod to check everything then...
09:52 sfan5            no, why would it?
09:53 sfan5            if the fork is close enough for the mod's purpose, existing support code will work fine
09:53 theenemystando[m guess so. I'm not writing a cross-game compt mod though so it'll be fine.
10:00 jas_             it feels to me like 'game' is a collection of mods, and if a server adds a single mod to worldmods/ directory then is that `game` still `game`?  it's an interesting question i'd never considered nor heard asked -- but it made me think of minetest server list which does show the game name
11:18 nephele          theenemystando[m, checking for globals checking for node availability is unfortunately the only way currently
11:18 nephele          there is no get current gamename or anything
11:19 nephele          cheapie, oof, that sounds really annoying... i was planning to use that call soon, but just forceload while something is going on... guess i'll have to do something more complicated
11:20 sfan5            annoying?
11:20 sfan5            "forceloading honors the reference count" isn't a bug, it's a feature
11:34 nephele          sfan5, if it doesn't match the doc it is definetely a bug
11:34 nephele          either in the code or the doc
11:34 nephele          For my usecase reference counting is more a detriment if anythign, adding it ontop of an api is easy... but reversing it is hard :)
11:35 sfan5            the documentation should explain the reference counting, yes
11:36 sfan5            however what is your situation you have where reference counting is a hindrance?
11:39 nephele          Well, i have mostly mechanics, i would likely forceload each block in a net from a central position, if it's a noop on calls after that i can just do that, if its not a noop i need to do carefull locking to not lock them severall times
11:40 sfan5            hm
11:41 sfan5            if it was possible to attach a string key to a forceload, your situation would be easier
11:41 sfan5            but that means more overhead for the engine
11:43 theodixon        hi
11:43 Krock            hi
11:44 theodixon        To help with the popularity issue of minetest, I have promoted it on my website. https://prospective-technology.co.uk/game_reviews/minetest/
11:46 theodixon        The website is not fully finished. When it is i hope it gets popular. Minetest was the first article I wrote on it
11:46 nephele          sfan5, yeah, or just one global forceload function that doesn't do counting
11:47 Krock            nephele: that sucks in terms of mod-interaction
11:52 tf2ftw           why is it so much easier to find silver than steel?? Where should I be looking for steel?
11:55 Krock            there's no steel ore
11:55 Krock            you need iron
11:56 Krock            https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blob/master/mods/default/mapgen.lua#L710
11:56 Krock            small clusters can be found from -255 to -128
11:56 theodixon        i think like bronze is made from copper and tin, steel should be made from iron and coal
11:56 theodixon        because iron +carbon = steel
11:57 Krock            large clusters, but more distributed can be found flow -256
11:57 Krock            theodixon: in the furnace that works just fine. you burn iron with coal to get steel
11:57 Krock            also, this was already discussed a few times. check out the MTG issues on GitHub
11:58 theodixon        oh ok
11:58 theodixon        maybe its a mod i can make, with more alloys
11:58 Krock            see also:
11:58 Krock            !mod technic
11:58 MinetestBot      Krock: Technic [technic] by RealBadAngel - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=2538 - https://github.com/minetest-mods/technic
11:58 theodixon        forgot about that
12:35 tf2ftw           thanks for the info on the steel
12:36 tf2ftw           are there any "sea level" indicators?
12:37 nephele          <0 if you mean mtg
12:55 jas_             some ambience: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvTd-MY64s0
12:56 jas_             !server jastest
12:56 MinetestBot      jas_: jastest | jastest.duckdns.org | Clients: 0/15, 0/1 | Version: 5.3.0-dev / minetest | Ping: 133ms
14:54 oil_boi          texmex, do you think I should add snow blocks?
15:19 texmex           oil_boi: Yes, but what mechanism do they bring?
15:19 oil_boi          Spleefing
15:21 texmex           Sure.
15:22 oil_boi          Or snowmen?
15:22 oil_boi          Or even ice cubes :T
15:23 texmex           Love the way you focus on core mechanisms though, rather than lighter biome-related functionality…
15:23 texmex           It’s easy to get lost in biomes, in my experience
15:28 oil_boi          Thanks texmex, the only thing I've gotten lost in so far is how to tell https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L4357 not to hurt the player if they fell into some water
15:28 oil_boi          I don't like having biomes do specific functions besides creating certain nodes or it quickly becomes a mess :L
15:31 oil_boi          It doesn't look like it's possible because returning true or false in register_on_player_hpchange doesn't do anything and resetting the hp on one server step after can bring up the death screen with full health
15:33 oil_boi          Also even return({modifier=false,hp_change=0}) is non functional, I wish this explained how to tell the engine the new damage
15:38 sfan5            oil_boi: http://sprunge.us/c7Mye8?lua
15:42 oil_boi          Thanks sfan5
15:43 nephele          Is there any way to specify /how/ a specific biome is supposed to look in regards to elevation and stuff
15:43 oil_boi          I'll have to make a note on the explanation style that certain api references like that use
15:43 nephele          like... plains should have relative low elevation across the board, increasing one decreasing one block per 20-30 blocks or so at most
15:44 sfan5            I don't believe the mapgen offers this flexibility, several noises decide the terrain and biomes decide what nodes to place
15:44 nephele          .-.
15:45 nephele          Guess i'll write my mapgen in lua then, without that it's really unusable for me
15:46 sfan5            this seems very fundamental so I have a hard time believing that Minetest can't do this
15:46 oil_boi          nephele, you could set the biome to air and then have a custom lua gen in place worse comes to worse but it'll look like there's chunk errors slightly
15:47 sfan5            or set it to some special filler node and then post-process the terrain in on_generated
15:48 nephele          sfan5, well, i have found nothing in the lua docs for biomes that suggest i could tie biomes to features
15:48 nephele          I have seen some mapgen already that would look fine as a plain, if it actually did generate blocks for my plains biome there
15:49 nephele          currently i just get it randomly /assuming/ the height is correct... but really absolute height too seems like a terrible way to specify terrain, it always seems to take all or nothing
15:49 sfan5            nephele: sure but it might be possible to control this indirectly by placing plains only where the elevation is smooth
15:50 oil_boi          Ooooo, that's a great idea sfan5, you could use a node as a "grass" layer with the rest set to 0 and then do lua mapgen using the node as a noise reference point and apply amplification to it to create a mountainous region!!!
15:50 nephele          And how would i acomplish that? the biome definition let me tie in only in heat, humidity and absolute heights
15:50 sfan5            I'm not saying it is possible, just speculating
15:51 calcul0n_        biome defs have a y_min/max and min/max_poq params, i guess they are done for that
15:51 calcul0n_        you could register different biomes for different levels
15:51 calcul0n_        *min/max_pos
15:52 nephele          sfan5, ah okay
15:52 nephele          Well, I would like to be able to specify a median size, with maximum and minimum absolute sizes aswell for biomes
15:52 nephele          In any case, minetests insistence that sea level is ==0 is really wierd imo
15:52 sfan5            https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/mapgen/mapgen_v7.cpp#L304-L318
15:53 nephele          See level should be variable too somewhat, or tinier sees higher or so
15:53 sfan5            well as evident here, terrain is always the same and biomes just control the nodes
15:53 nephele          Yes, i know
15:53 nephele          i don't like that, it's not what i would want my biomes to /mean/ :P
15:54 calcul0n_        note that a mapgen in lua would probably be terribly slow
15:55 sfan5            I think nephele is willing to accept that in exchange for being able to do biomes "properly"
15:55 calcul0n_        yep, i just mean be prepared to suffer :p
15:57 rschulman        Am I right in assuming that once a chunk is generated, there's no way to gen new ores (after adding moreores) in that chunk?
15:57 FreeFull         That does sound right
15:58 sfan5            "no way" isn't correct, but it's certainly not easy
15:58 Krock            rschulman: use VManip. https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L3755-L3757
15:58 Krock            https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L4764-L4771
16:01 sfan5            and unless you want double the ores you should turn existing ores back to stone before calling the method Krock suggested
16:01 rschulman        Oh, I meant from within the game.
16:01 sfan5            yeah there isn't, you'll need a mod (and not only need but also need to program)
16:03 rschulman        Ok cool, that's what I figured. Thanks.
16:04 nephele          calcul0n_, no it wouldn't
16:04 oil_boi          sfan5, I'm sorry to change the topic but the latest commit that fixed bones well
16:05 oil_boi          https://i.imgur.com/anHyluu.png this is third person in a fresh install of minetest with a few seconds old git clone of minetest gmae
16:05 oil_boi          game*
16:06 oil_boi          I just git fetched and recompiled minetest engine and I was messing around, I went into 3rd person on my game, and I was like, oh no, I broke something, but the same thing happens in MTG
16:07 sfan5            huh which commit?
16:08 oil_boi          Oh, I thought the bone fixes were pushed, that uhhhhh, makes me even more confused
16:10 oil_boi          sfan5, I cleared the cache and it's all better?? What the
16:10 nephele          you should start making wild acusations in confusion :3
16:11 oil_boi          nephele, YOU DID THIS
16:11 oil_boi          There
16:11 nephele          I am honored, beyond honored, to be important enough to be a probably cause for compile errors on your machine
16:12 oil_boi          But in all seriousness this is why I get super nervous when I find stuff like this, I still remember when entities would sometimes keep old functions stored in their metadata even though you completely redefined them and cleared their serialize and deserialize functions completely, that was a very long time ago
16:13 oil_boi          Thank you nephele for being such a kind and caring glitch gremlin
16:13 nephele          That's a new one
16:14 nephele          Hmm... I'll add "re-implement mapgen in lua" to my todo list... right after "make a new crafting api"
16:14 oil_boi          oh yeah, I didn't even bother bug reporting it because after 1-2 server restarts in singleplayer at least it would fix itself, but it was fixed around 2014 or so but good lord it was annoying
16:21 oil_boi          nephele, https://github.com/paramat/lvm_example
16:22 nephele          ?
16:26 texmex           oil_boi: I wonder, since you’ve added Aether-like features, are you keen on some other MC mods that feel like they should’ve been in vanilla? Related to adding biomes, I’m interested in Tough As Nails functionality myself, as it makes biomes really behave different.
16:34 oil_boi          texmex, I'm watching a video on it right now and taking notes
16:35 texmex           Awesome ?
16:37 texmex           This video is the best one I’ve found for explaining its mechanics. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kgNWUWjpKwk
16:40 texmex           Sorry, I think I meant this one https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5SjTtFcYMuU
16:42 oil_boi          texmex, in that last one you sent, he has made an EXTREMELY good point, we should have modding teams
16:43 oil_boi          Err, wasn't really a point, he just mentioned modding teams
16:44 oil_boi          Before I even finish watching all 3 of these videos, time to add ice
16:45 orbea            If a mod calls 'set_hp(-1, "foo")' then 'reason.type' for 'minetest.register_on_player_hpchange()' should be "foo" and not "set_hp", right?
16:46 texmex           oil_boi: Agreed. It was touched upon in this thread: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=371343
16:47 oil_boi          Linuxdirk: Minetest development is super slow and the devs are uber scared of changes so it is just the easiest and simplest way to code things you need by yourself.
16:47 texmex           But the idea should be expanded upon and tried. From what I can tell it was quite common in the MC community.
16:48 oil_boi          >if you can make the thing run as fast as it would in the engine in LUA then there is no need to add it into the engine because 97% of anyone will not agree that it should be added into the engine anyways
16:48 texmex           More like this post, specifically https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=371343#p371343
16:48 orbea            oh, im doing it wrong now that I look at other examples...
16:50 oil_boi          texmex, your idea is good, I looked over that thread and was inspired by your post before adding  https://github.com/oilboi/Crafter/blob/master/mods/new_functions/init.lua
16:50 orbea            Now: 2020-04-26 09:49:56: ERROR[Server]: Bad type given! *sigh*
16:51 oil_boi          Touch based damage, damage inside node, suffocation inside regular drawtype nodes, all based in lua, all extremely fast
16:51 orbea            how do you give it a custom damage type?
16:51 oil_boi          orbea, can I see your code?
16:52 texmex           oil_boi: Yeah, especially when you’ve client-side mod at your disposal \o/
16:52 oil_boi          texmex, Oh my man, if I added that into clientside, I think I'd hover above my chair and do a flip in excitement
16:53 orbea            oil_boi: not my code, but I am trying to modify hunger_ng on this line: https://gitlab.com/4w/hunger_ng/-/blob/master/system/hunger_functions.lua#L187
16:53 orbea            it now has: player:set_hp(new_health, { type = reason })
16:54 oil_boi          Clientside api basically creates the possibility to go from singlethreaded to threads = (however many players are in the game) + server thread
16:55 orbea            both hunger_ng and 3d_armor report the type correctly as "starving", maybe the error is bogus?
16:55 oil_boi          orbea, see https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L4363
16:56 texmex           oil_boi: Yes, it's quite exciting and I think you're doing the right thing by starting using it right away even before server-sent csm is possible.
16:56 oil_boi          orbea, then https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L5869 You must give reason a custom string to work with it
16:56 orbea            oil_boi: i have read it many times, maybe I dont understand what it means? I undestood that if it gives a reason as indicated it should use that instead? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L5869
16:57 oil_boi          so set_hp(10, "you_are_cool") or set_hp(-10, "you_dun_goofed")
16:57 orbea            i did that at first and it just reports set_hp then
16:58 orbea            (in 3d_armor)
16:58 oil_boi          orbea, Oh man, I dunno then, you might have to PM Linuxdirk on the forum
17:00 oil_boi          texmex, once the server does CSM automatically all of my fears of people using CSM to hack like crazy in the Crafter, or any game, will be completely relieved!!
17:01 texmex           Build now, worry never :)
17:01 oil_boi          That's very true
17:05 orbea            oil_boi: not sure its specific for hunger_ng, this is just what I was trying it with. See https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/server/player_sao.h#L252 and https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/script/lua_api/l_object.cpp#L242
17:05 orbea            it seems the code assumes custom reasons are not possible?
17:05 orbea            even though the docs indicate it is?
17:06 orbea            and despite the error message it continues to use the custom type...
17:07 oil_boi          orbea, I think you need a moderator or engine developer to help you at this point because I've never tried what you're trying so I don't know hot to resolve it
17:07 oil_boi          !mod
17:07 MinetestBot      oil_boi: Sound Reactions 1.0 [soundreaction] by Glory! - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=13185
17:08 oil_boi          Oh..
17:08 orbea            ah, thanks for trying anyways :)
17:17 rubenwardy       orbea: I wrote that code, you can provide custom reasons but the type must be "custom"
17:18 rubenwardy       Well, or an existing valid type
17:20 orbea            rubenwardy: so how would I determine between two different custom types, say "foo" and "bar"?
17:21 orbea            doesn't work? player:set_hp(new_health, { type = "custom" }
17:23 oil_boi          texmex, oh my god the models for entities and players are randomly not loading in, I'm about to throw this motherboard in the garbage
17:23 rubenwardy       { type = "custom", some_other_field = "foo" }
17:23 rubenwardy       perhaps `type` should allow arbitrary types that start with `_` or something like that
17:25 orbea            even with type = "custom" it still prints an error
17:25 orbea            also dont see where it checks "custom" in the code
17:26 rubenwardy       hmmm
17:26 rubenwardy       try not specifying the type?
17:26 rubenwardy       this is broken
17:26 rubenwardy       oh, looks like I made up the custom type
17:27 rubenwardy       it's not documented
17:27 rubenwardy       the `set_hp` type should probably be used
17:28 rubenwardy       set_hp`: A mod or the engine called `set_hp` without giving a type - use this for custom damage types.
17:28 orbea            adding { hunger = reason } works, I guess I can do that
17:28 orbea            i dont think disabled armor damage for "set_hp" is a good idea, that would break armor damage from tnt and probably other things I think
17:28 orbea            *disabling
17:29 rubenwardy       armor doesn't make sense with set_hp
17:29 rubenwardy       armor is strictly a tool caps thing
17:29 rubenwardy       so you should use punch
17:29 rubenwardy       you can specfiy a nil puncher, you use the player as the puncher
17:29 rubenwardy       or an entity
17:29 rubenwardy       actually, citation needed
17:30 rubenwardy       yes, confirmed
17:30 orbea            fwiw 3d_armor handles armor damage here https://github.com/mt-mods/3d_armor/blob/master/3d_armor/init.lua#L403
17:31 orbea            it should also be damaged by things like falling or lava
17:31 rubenwardy       oh right, I misunderstood what you meant by armor damage
17:31 rubenwardy       I see the problem - you don't want hunger to affect armor
17:31 orbea            so my idea was to define what types it should not be damaged by, in my use case that mostly means drowning, eating things that damages the player and from starving
17:31 oil_boi          sfan5, I found the bug: If I turn shaders off no models load??
17:32 orbea            drowing is a defined type so that  was easy
17:32 orbea            *drowning
17:33 oil_boi          sfan5, this has to be a bug with manjaro or arch
17:33 MinetestBot      02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix mapgen settings in minetest.conf being ignored (#9737) 13eca6ee9 https://git.io/Jftd5 (152020-04-26T17:32:29Z)
17:33 MinetestBot      02[git] 04theviper121 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix UpdateBonePosition() breaking animations (#9577) 13e1fc72c https://git.io/Jftdd (152020-04-26T17:32:04Z)
17:33 sfan5            oil_boi: works for me here
17:34 * Lone_Wolf      claps
17:35 rubenwardy       works her for me too  (Manjaro)
17:36 rubenwardy       I don't turn shaders off though
17:54 oil_boi          rubenwardy, sfan5 https://youtu.be/27-JEmC3FDQ This is something
17:54 oil_boi          !title
17:54 MinetestBot      oil_boi: What even is this bug - YouTube
17:57 sfan5            flat clouds is a new feature
17:57 sfan5            or rather varying cloud "densities"
17:59 Krock            oil_boi: your menu clouds are really weird
17:59 oil_boi          sfan5, oh okay, I'm more concerned about the vertices outlines showing up on everything around 5:36
17:59 sfan5            either way here's an existing bug report https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9072
17:59 Krock            #9072
17:59 ShadowBot        https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9072 -- Faces show as if in wireframe mode
17:59 Krock            these ninjas again
18:00 oil_boi          So then the models not showing up at all is the new bug then?
18:00 sfan5            yea looks like it
18:01 sfan5            so to confirm the wireframe bug happens with antialias x2 regardless of whether shaders are enabled?
18:03 oil_boi          shaders don't matter, x2 worse, x4 is slightly less worse, if formspec that's translucent in front it's even worse
18:03 oil_boi          if shaders on, entity and player model loads, shaders off, entity and player model doesn't load
18:04 MinetestBot      02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Remove unused lookup table from noise.cpp 1368f45fc https://git.io/JftFB (152020-04-26T17:52:09Z)
18:06 sfan5            entities not loading is a new bug, possibly related to https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/9374
18:06 sfan5            would be good to know if it works with a build before Feb 16
18:06 oil_boi          sfan5, how to get build before feb 16
18:07 Krock            reset your shaders
18:07 sfan5            https://minetest.kitsunemimi.pw/builds/ there's one from 2020-02-10
18:07 sfan5            if you want to compile from source you can just use git to reset to any commit you want
18:08 Krock            (nvm @ shaders)
18:09 Krock            might be related to the new use_texture_alpha distinction? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/9374/files#diff-90993ca3bb550ffc1c77a1578f3545d3R591
18:09 sfan5            that was there before
18:09 oil_boi          sfan5, tested in wine, the problem still happens
18:10 * Krock          opens his eyes
18:10 sfan5            oil_boi: hm good to know
18:10 nephele          Krock, your eyes were closed all this time?
18:10 oil_boi          Damn I hate opening these huge problems
18:10 rschulman        How would folks go about creating a lua node that prevents mobs (say from mobs_redo) from passing above it or coming w/in a certain number of blocks of it? Is there a way to influence `minetest.find_path`?
18:10 sfan5            if this is broken with 5.1, 5.0, ... too then it must really be due to some change in Mesa/AMD's code
18:10 Krock            how about a 0.4.x build? if it happens there it's likely a driver issue
18:10 oil_boi          sfan5, LETS FIND OUT
18:11 sfan5            https://github.com/minetest/minetest/releases/download/5.1.1/minetest-5.1.1-win64.zip
18:11 sfan5            https://github.com/minetest/minetest/releases/download/5.0.1/minetest-5.0.1-win64.zip
18:11 sfan5            ^ for your convenience
18:11 orbea            oil_boi: any chance you tried the mesa git master?
18:11 Krock            rschulman: only manual influence by changing the code
18:11 sfan5            rschulman: there are some hacks possible e.g. overwriting minetest.find_path from a mod, but such a thing should really be implemented in mobs_redo itself
18:13 oil_boi          5.1 wine doesn't render player either way, same with 5.0
18:13 oil_boi          orbea, let's give it a try cause I'm about to throw this RX580 in the toilet
18:14 rschulman        Ok, makes sense, thanks!
18:15 orbea            i have amd too and I find its best to follow the git for libdrm/mesa and the most recent llvm stable release
18:15 orbea            if all else fails apitrace might help
18:16 orbea            (would help track down the bad GL calls)
18:16 Lone_Wolf        IIRC if you disable mipmap the entity missing bug no longer occurs
18:16 oil_boi          Lone_Wolf, the mipmapping was disabled in all tests
18:17 Lone_Wolf        Or something else was up. Been a while since I had that problem
18:18 oil_boi          I had this problem on windows and I thought it was just me being a dumb with the visualstudio stuff
18:19 sfan5            wait wait, the clouds turned wireframe-y on windows too?
18:20 Lone_Wolf        OH. I fixed the bug by removing the directional_lighting PR from my client
18:20 oil_boi          sfan5, yeah
18:20 sfan5            oh no
18:20 Lone_Wolf        I could pop over to Windows and test for the wireframes if wanted
18:20 oil_boi          I cannot get into the windows 10 install because the new windows update completely killed the bootloader
18:20 sfan5            if this was a bug in just Mesa it would be somewhat okay to fix/diagnose
18:21 sfan5            but on Windows the situation is entirely different (unless AMD ships Mesa as OpenGL implementation there?)
18:21 orbea            might indicate that minetest is doing something wrong and it just happens to work on some drivers
18:21 Lone_Wolf        Ping me if you need some testing
18:21 orbea            or maybe they just have the same bug by chance (the video drivers)
18:22 oil_boi          One second, you have to remember that the drivers on windows, if shipped with the same implementation of opengl could be using the stable branch, I'm compiling the git version of mesa AMD drivers right now to check
18:23 Lone_Wolf        Lemme know if you succeed. I couldn't figure out how to get the custom-compiled mesa to override my current one
18:23 oil_boi          AMD couldn't get their rx5800XT running right for months I don't doubt they couldn't figure out how to do OpenGL
18:29 oil_boi          sfan5, no need to worry, you and orbea's assumptions were correct and it was the shit AMD drivers
18:29 sfan5            so it's fixed in Mesa master?
18:32 oil_boi          On  Mesa 20.1.0-devel (git-bf3c9d2770) latest dev working, with wine 5.0 is working, with wine 5.1 is working (shaders on and off for all 3)
18:33 oil_boi          But, what this means is, anyone who has AMD GPUs and is on windows or linux with the stable OpenGL implementation is going to have this bug and it's not anyone's fault but AMD
18:33 oil_boi          I would make a forum sticky about this for the time being :T
18:35 oil_boi          I can't test this on W10 with unstable OpenGL implementation because 1, I don't work at AMD and 2, I don't want W10 to wipe my grub again
18:50 oil_boi_         sfan5, I'm sorry to keep piling stuff up but, it seems like AA 2 and 4 are the only one's that do anything bad is because they're the only ones doing anything https://imgur.com/a/s5E24Cv
18:51 sfan5            useful to know
18:51 oil_boi_         Alright I'm gonna stop bug reporting because I'm being an ultra downer rn
18:51 sfan5            so in conclusion: AMD recently broke anti aliasing
18:51 oil_boi_         When doesn't AMD break literally anything
18:52 sfan5            their CPUs are pretty good
18:52 oil_boi_         Yes, yes they are, but their GPUs get the big oof from me
18:53 oil_boi_         I have a full AMD system so it's like heaven and hell wrapped into one
18:54 tf2ftw           speaking of specs, what type of cpu/ram are needed to host ~100 users?
18:54 Lone_Wolf        speaking of 100 users how are you planning to get that many players? :thinkeyes:
18:55 tf2ftw           ha yeah
18:55 oil_boi_         tf2ftw, you're gonna need a singlecore that does 7GHZ
18:55 tf2ftw           I live in a neighborhood with a lot of kids ;) Maybe my son can make it go viral at school
18:55 sfan5            before you run out of RAM the poor cpu utilization of Minetest will bring you down
18:56 sfan5            so grab the CPU with the best single-core performance and hope for the best
18:56 tf2ftw           single core at 7ghz? is MT not multithreaded?
18:56 oil_boi_         tf2ftw, oh man, I'm sorry to pull that bandaid off for you
18:56 sfan5            to some extent
18:56 sfan5            but everything that (really) matters happens in the server loop in a single thread
18:57 tf2ftw           well.. hm
18:57 sfan5            of course how responsive this is also depends on what the mods do
18:57 tf2ftw           ok true. im not complaining.
18:57 tf2ftw           good to know though.
18:58 oil_boi_         one day we will have multiple thread capabilities! I hope! I am just too dumb to put ideas into code through C++
18:58 Krock            GHz is not the only factor. If the RAM latency were lower and instructions took less cycles you'd get the same performance for lower clock rates
18:59 tf2ftw           Well for now, MT is perfect for my 5yo sold and me to play with a few of his friends :) I was just wondering what the hit was per player
18:59 Krock            basically the goals of RISC. only a few instructions, but those must be somewhat fast
18:59 tf2ftw           * son
18:59 oil_boi_         the only way I can see doing this in pure LUA is https://www.lua.org/pil/9.4.html and .after statements but they will have to funnel back into a single thread right now
19:00 tf2ftw           Go has very nice thread management but I digress
19:01 oil_boi_         tf2ftw, if you have a multicore you can set the emerge_threads in the conf and it will generate the map much faster which is probably what you're more worried about with default MTG
19:01 sfan5            the best case for threading optimization I see is running object's on_step outside the server loop
19:01 sfan5            but you can't "just" put that on another thread
19:02 oil_boi_         sfan5, oo that's a good idea :T I mean you could but it wouldn't communicate properly with the terrain and you'd have to have the objects work with the server instead of the server work with the objects
19:02 Krock            it would need an entire map modification pipeline
19:02 oil_boi_         Exactly
19:02 oil_boi_         The objects would have to work from 1 memory pool and calculate using that
19:03 sfan5            the most likely way I can see this working is that mods can submit work to run in the background
19:03 sfan5            those functions then run in a different Lua environment with limited/low-priority/read-only(?) access to the map and stuff
19:05 oil_boi_         That would make memory management so ultra extremely efficient, the closest thing we have now is having objects offload data to the closest player's client using modchannels and calculate using that essentially distributing processing threads to as many people that join the game
19:05 tf2ftw           Why not at least separate thread to render things beyond the players view - or maybe that is already happening and the real issue is the mods?
19:06 sfan5            "render"?
19:07 tf2ftw           fair. prepare to render?
19:07 oil_boi_         I think tf2ftw is talking about caching chunks that are not currently stored in the clients mapdata memory pool
19:08 tf2ftw           Thanks. Yes
19:09 tf2ftw           I'm sure we're talking about re-arch no matter the direction though. right?
19:09 oil_boi_         That does technically happen tf2ftw, when you hit unlimited viewing range that's why your client fps tanks if you've walked very far
19:09 tf2ftw           i see
19:09 oil_boi_         But I assume you're talking about extending the distance of viewable chunks?
19:09 tf2ftw           Na I'm just saying to offload work beyond the players view
19:10 tf2ftw           basically limit the player view so other things can happen at a "slower" pace
19:10 sfan5            are we talking about the server now or client?
19:10 tf2ftw           ah right. good call out. I guess that would be the client
19:11 tf2ftw           Didn't mean to take us down a rabbit hole. Thanks for the info
19:12 sfan5            the server already puts objects to sleep if there is no client within 48 (by default) nodes
19:14 oil_boi_         Offload all object ABM LBM etc work seems to happen already, in minetest.conf you have max_block_send_distance which limits the amount of mapblocks you can see, then there's active_object_send_range_blocks which seems to set how far objects can stay alive from the player, and then there's active_block_range which controls how far from the player ABMs can run
19:15 oil_boi_         Doing this per client would cause some serious problems
19:15 sfan5            active_block_range also applies to objects
19:15 sfan5            but when active_object_send_range_blocks < active_block_range the objects are kept alive but you don't see them
19:16 oil_boi_         Holy moly so any forceloaded block can still process entities? That's extremely useful
19:16 MinetestBot      02[git] 04Panquesito7 -> 03minetest/minetest: Add new command /revokeme <priv> (#9584) 132fe4641 https://git.io/JftNE (152020-04-26T19:15:05Z)
19:16 sfan5            they do, yes
19:20 oil_boi_         *Brain has quit (Quit: Turned to charcoal)
19:39 oil_boi_         You know what we really need: A fishing game
19:40 Lone_Wolf        With MC-like fishing rods?
19:41 oil_boi_         Lone_Wolf, Nah like https://youtu.be/xcZhg77asYU
19:41 oil_boi_         !title
19:41 MinetestBot      oil_boi_: Action Bass ... (PS1) - YouTube
20:13 texmex           Watch out for viral diseases on your favorite servers https://gitlab.com/sztest/epidemic
20:13 sfan5            !title
20:13 MinetestBot      sfan5: sztest / epidemic · GitLab
20:17 texmex           oil_boi_: Nay to synchronous, individual rod fishing. Yay to asynchronous, coop net fishing!
20:27 tf2ftw           texmex, nice
20:48 oil_boi_         texmex, that's crazy
20:48 oil_boi_         And awesome!
20:50 oil_boi_         Also texmex I already added the prototype of it but it acts weird :T https://youtu.be/e1Uauh0szgU
20:50 oil_boi_         Maybe just simple fishing for now and make a complete fishing game later :T :T :T
20:52 oil_boi_         Ahh man, Action Wrass in Minetest is gonna go on the backburner
20:55 oil_boi_         All the elements of making a fishing game are already in the engine, you can do a singlenode worldgen and literally load maps in by clearing the area using vm and then loading in a stored schematic, hell you can create doom right now with all the stuff that's in the engine
21:49 jas_             https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTNostYetvE
21:49 jas_             rocket jump on jastest
21:49 jas_             shooter shoots players but not mobs :/