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IRC log for #minetest, 2020-04-25

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 LMD so one could do something like minetest.register_group_alias{"food", "eatable", "munchies"}
00:00 VanessaE and my assumption is based on how much code I'd personally have to adapt, versus how lazy I am :P
00:00 nephele Yes, but, i am not asking you to adapt anything
00:00 LMD and using a metatable all those groups would point to the same value
00:00 LMD changing one would change them all
00:00 VanessaE and history suggests that code-wise, I'm not any more lazy than the rest of the modding community
00:01 nephele Making code compatible is always a burden, it's a set of restrictions really, not everyone is going to bother
00:01 nephele but i atleast want to make it feasible to do
00:01 nephele Even if only some mods do take the effort
00:01 LMD just develop more advanced alias registration methods and you're fine with minimum effort
00:01 nephele LMD, ???
00:01 LMD developing an accepted spec and getting modders to accept it will be a matter of years
00:02 VanessaE so it's a reasonable assumption that no one who maintains a large project is gonna bother adapting to any such spec.  new mods?  maybe, perhaps.  old code?  no chance.
00:02 LMD nephele: I'm saying you should be going for register_alias, but more advanced, for example also for groups.
00:02 nephele It's more interesting to gamemodes, if it's implemented in one or two afternoons gamemodes may totally do it
00:02 LMD actually not
00:03 LMD renaming items is not taken lightly as worlds break
00:03 nephele It's a bit easier to provide a:sand than it is to make all your glass recipes conform to use a:sand :P
00:03 LMD so they'd have to go with aliases, which creates undesirable legacy code
00:03 VanessaE a good comparison might be cars that run on natural gas or propane.  any gasoline engine can be adapted to run on those.  do people bother?  no.  too much existing tech to use petrol/diesel.  and such a conversion would take less time than rewriting a moderately-sized mod.
00:03 nephele LMD, you lost me tbh
00:03 LMD and then they'll probably start to wonder why it isn't a compat mod registering those aliases
00:03 VanessaE do most people, that is.
00:04 GreenXenith LMD has been off in the weeds for most of this discussion
00:04 LMD X
00:04 LMD D
00:04 LMD more like off in the sleeps
00:04 LMD should probably go to bed
00:05 LMD the interesting stuff is always happening at bedtime
00:05 nephele Hmm... only 2:05
00:05 nephele :)
00:05 LMD because of the timeshift USA vs Europe
00:05 GreenXenith Such is life when you live across the pond
00:05 LMD Also 2:05 for me nephele
00:05 LMD Still late
00:05 LMD Depending on how early one got up
00:05 nephele LMD, it's not bedtiem, it's "you should have been asleep for hours" time :D
00:06 LMD then I guess imma head out
00:06 LMD same goes for you nephele :P
00:06 scott_ > 90% of all minetest mods depend on `default` It's unreasonable to demand that mineclone2 implement mtg aswell as itself ;)
00:06 scott_ ^^ this
00:06 nephele Not me, i have still flutter apps to develop!
00:06 LMD oh, flutter's nice
00:07 LMD didn't develop a meaningful thing with it yet tho
00:07 LMD seems to be a fresh take at UIs
00:07 nephele Yes, except when it keeps pestering you to upgrade to AndroidX
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00:07 LMD but TBH I don't think you're gonna be very productive at such late hours nephele :P
00:08 nephele Depends really, but i'll see i guess :)
00:08 LMD you'll probably get more done if you head to bed now and wake up earlier tomorrow
00:08 LMD depends on your sleep cycle tho
00:10 nephele VanessaE, Not sure i get that comparison, anyhow. I still think it might be neat, even if only 2 or 3 gamemodes implement it some simpler mods could definetely target it for easerish support
00:10 nephele Kind of like the uhm, hud api thingy i made
00:11 GreenXenith HUD wrappers are soooo nice
00:11 nephele although i have been too lazy to fix mods to use it
00:11 VanessaE ^
00:11 nephele because i don't actually use those mods :
00:11 nephele )
00:11 GreenXenith I made a custom HUD object for a game im working on and it makes life so much easier
00:12 nephele GreenXenith, well, i just was really bothered by chat spam by mods
00:12 nephele so i defined an api to use instead
00:12 nephele basically this: notify.hud.sendtext(player, “Your " .. tool .. " Has been repaired!", 5), where player is a player, second is the text and third is the timeout
00:13 nephele VanessaE, still proves my point that implementing such a thing in a gamemode is easier ;), because i do have an implementation :P
00:13 nephele and if i get around to it i might even fix that anvil mod to not spam the chat on ve-banana ;)
00:14 GreenXenith Does your notify thing roll it's own chat HUD element(s) to divvy up different chat_sends to? Otherwise it looks the same as chat_send_player ..
00:14 nephele GreenXenith, It's not in the chat
00:14 nephele it's a hud notification
00:15 VanessaE it's only easier if you're writing new mods
00:15 VanessaE it's rarely easier to adapt old code.
00:15 GreenXenith Ah, yes. That makes sense. notify-send 'n stuff :)
00:15 VanessaE anyway I'm gonna bow out of this mess
00:16 nephele GreenXenith, yeah, i dont like chat beeing full of "you have been teleported" or "you can go that way" or something ;)
00:16 nephele it's only really relevant at that specific moment anyway
00:17 GreenXenith I made my HUD object because I wanted to make dynamic HUD elements without the hassle of the HUD API, so its a bit lower level than that sort of thing (notifications)
00:17 nephele Ah, i used to have a layouting api thingy for hud elements
00:17 nephele but that was in gmod, i don't think i ported it ove
00:18 nephele mainly because input apis are missing so i cant do anything interesting with it
00:18 nephele GreenXenith, well my implementation for that api is really barebone
00:18 nephele Just wanted to have an api to point at, and an easy implemnetation one could take
00:19 GreenXenith Right
00:19 GreenXenith Speaking of input apis, I also made a controller wrapper because I want clients to have full control (heh) over their controls :]
00:19 nephele I want apis to get some key presses, specially kp_enter kp_right kp_up and so on
00:20 nephele I want to make a bit nicer item movement... a bit similar to like the uhm, fallout4 quickloot in that you don't need to open a formspec explicitly, and can still use your mosue
00:20 nephele but move items with the keyboard
00:21 nephele i wanted this initiall for gmod too :P, it has gamemodes full of people trying to kill you, but a very blocking inventory UI, even implemented an inventory api somewhat... but alas gmod changed their EULA so here i am
00:23 GreenXenith My goal for the controller wrapper is to provide key-independent bindings that can be used in place of keynames so that any key could be used for any action. I also intend to have easy hooks for key_down and key_up so I can differentiate between keypresses and keytaps. Among other features.
00:24 nephele is that a wrapper outside the game?
00:24 GreenXenith Nope, ingame
00:24 nephele I fear that if an api becomes too generic one can't make good input mappings at all anymore
00:25 nephele I do want to use a steam controller in minetest somewhat
00:25 GreenXenith However, you have just given me an idea ...
00:25 nephele its a bit problematic that binding it to wasd translates the digital range to 4bits of input basically, so you have a fixed move speed, even thought he device could convey much more info
00:26 nephele so... native controller integration would be required
00:26 nephele linux even has steam controller support since i think 5.0 or something?
00:26 GreenXenith I use an external controller mapper for my PS2 controller, and it supports partial keypresses
00:26 GreenXenith I think .. I havent used it in a while
00:26 nephele do you map that to an xbox360 or so?
00:27 GreenXenith Controls just get sent to the mapper which translates it into keyboard/mouse actions
00:28 nephele ah, that is a bit imprecise, i hope for more direct compatibility in the future
00:28 nephele it could  make playing on android nicer maybe... but i wonder if that requires irrlicht support
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00:48 rubenwardy sfan5: sfinv isn't MTG specific.   MTG wasn't even the first game to get it.   https://github.com/rubenwardy/sfinv
00:48 rubenwardy mineclone2 shouldn't be expected to have a default mod, and having one would be disadvantageous
00:49 rubenwardy the problem is the default mod in the first place
00:55 rubenwardy I've raised cross-game compatibility a long time ago - it sucks currently
00:55 rubenwardy forcing every game to have a default mod which a set of nodes isn't helpful
00:56 rubenwardy what's more helpful is to stop mods from depending on default at all
00:56 rubenwardy so, as said - use groups for items
00:56 rubenwardy another big dependency are sounds - service location would be much better
00:57 rubenwardy VanessaE: mod developers will need to port their mods to work on games other than MTG.   MTG makes cross-compatibility very difficult
00:58 rubenwardy a compat layer would be a good solution
01:00 rubenwardy ...and I've caught up
01:02 rubenwardy re: sounds    -  sounds would be registered and searched using a bunch of labels. For example:     minetest.find_sound({ "granite", "stone", "snappy" })
01:02 rubenwardy the labels would increase in genericity
01:02 rubenwardy the aim being to allow fallbacks
01:03 rubenwardy this avoids   default.glass_sounds_defaults()
01:13 nephele ah, so sound categories if you will? going down from "default walking" to "walking on glass" in steps?
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02:07 argyle So, I'm playing with mg_villages, mobs_redo, etc...  Q- Anyone dealing with npc who float about their beds and don't ever get up?
02:09 argyle about = above
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03:32 tf2ftw It seems like the V6 map gen is not utilized much or is not compatible with many mods. Why is that?
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03:59 DrFrankenstone V6 doesn't use the biome system exposed to the API
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04:01 DrFrankenstone Wuzzy made a biomeinfo mod that makes it easier to support some aspects of V6, but you still need make special effort to support it
04:01 VanessaE plantlife + moretrees + biome_lib ftw ;)
04:02 VanessaE (at least, for mgv6)
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05:20 MinetestBot [git] EvidenceBKidscode -> minetest/minetest: Add server side translations capability (#9733) cee3c5e https://git.io/JfLhO (2020-04-25T05:20:00Z)
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05:49 MinetestBot [git] pyrollo -> minetest/minetest: Simplify how parseElement splits element string (#9726) 6cc5c7c https://git.io/JfLhu (2020-04-25T05:48:04Z)
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07:42 MinetestBot [git] pauloue -> minetest/minetest: Ensure game is shutdown if server throws exception (#9742) 49ed0ca https://git.io/Jfted (2020-04-25T07:42:18Z)
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09:29 jas_ ye v6 is nice
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09:50 jas_ oh there's a new option to sound_play, smh.  this bool makes it so minetest doesn't run out of memory playing sounds?  just kidding around... seriously sound and keys, just do 'em over hahahah just kidding again ok back to it
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10:41 MinetestBot [git] sfan5 -> minetest/minetest: mapblock_mesh: Optimize a few things (#9713) 73180a7 https://git.io/JftUk (2020-04-25T10:39:17Z)
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11:58 jas_ !mod
11:58 MinetestBot jas_: Kill Spikes by nirasa - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=19028 - https://github.com/nirasa1957/kill_spikes
11:58 jas_ nice i'm glad i got a second url
11:58 jas_ hmmmm, very interesting
11:59 appguru !mod
11:59 MinetestBot appguru: Not So Simple Buildings [nssb] by npx - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=14135 - https://github.com/NPXcoot/nssb
12:00 appguru doesn't work in PMs :/
12:00 appguru oh wait
12:00 jas_ i like to issue !mod to see a sort of "mod of the day"
12:00 jas_ !server
12:00 MinetestBot jas_: Nico's World | 185.249.197.68 | Clients: 16/64, 14/29 | Version: 0.4.17.1 / minetest | Ping: 10ms
12:00 jas_ nice
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12:01 * jas_ comments out minetest.register_abm in mobs_redo/api.lua
12:01 Krock jas_: there's no such data to sort by
12:01 jas_ what?
12:01 appguru wait, works in PMs
12:01 jas_ Krock: what?
12:01 Krock jas_: there's no mod of the day
12:01 jas_ there is, in a sense, hence the quotes, for me as i issue !mod every so often, typically once a day
12:01 Krock neither a click counter
12:02 jas_ same with !server
12:02 jas_ it's not your mod of the day, it's mine.  anyways, how are things?
12:03 * jas_ throws mono_dejavu_sans_10.xml at Krock
12:03 appguru the serverlist should probably be styled
12:04 appguru i mean, it doesn't matter for me
12:04 sfan5 styled?
12:04 appguru yeah, a bit more beautiful probably
12:04 Krock it is styled in the web view
12:04 appguru it should resemble the in-game serverlist in terms of that
12:04 appguru yeah, ik
12:04 appguru but it should be styled more
12:05 appguru https://servers.minetest.net is pretty much a quite plain table
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12:05 Krock that's good as-is. what matters is the content and usability, not how it looks
12:05 jas_ (oh, easier just to put a return in mobs:spawn_specific)
12:06 appguru Krock: the looks are important, and it wouldn't be much of an effort to improve on that
12:06 Krock your PR is welcome
12:06 appguru where's the repo?
12:06 Krock https://github.com/minetest/master-server/
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12:07 MinetestBot [git] sfan5 -> minetest/minetest: Fix DPI scaling on Windows 8b45f6a https://git.io/Jftke (2020-04-25T12:00:11Z)
12:08 Zughy Krock, the look is as important as the content
12:09 Krock opinion1  <-------- 1 km (+/- 100 m) ----->  opinion2
12:09 Zughy if I provide the best tool in the world but the interface is horrible, not a lot of people will try it
12:09 jas_ ye i like a flat text list
12:09 jas_ and don't visit the serverlist on browser too often
12:09 Krock it's gotta be simple and easy to use
12:10 Zughy yes, and aesthetically pleasant
12:10 jas_ what's more aesthetically pleasing than text
12:10 Zughy I'm not talking about the server list, I'm talking in general
12:10 jas_ mmm sweet text
12:10 Zughy so not even about Minetest specifically
12:10 jas_ me either, dunno what i'm talking about actually
12:10 jas_ but i DO love plain text
12:11 Krock me too
12:11 jas_ oh you! :D
12:11 jas_ i'm putting mob buttons to spawn manually lol
12:12 Zughy anyway: there is a texture called default_item_smoke. Where does it get spawned exactly? Torches?
12:12 jas_ burn poof
12:12 jas_ on_burn, and maybe hmm tnt?
12:12 jas_ there's a weird history, i THINK, with smoke.png or something
12:12 jas_ gah
12:13 jas_ anyway it only appears in the burn poof i believe
12:13 appguru Whenever you'd think there'd be smoke
12:14 appguru For example items burning in Lava
12:14 appguru Or firing guns
12:14 jas_ ye i seem to remember another file, maybe smoke.png, or something and it was associated with player death
12:14 jas_ or maybe entity punch?
12:14 jas_ entity death?
12:14 Krock see also: smoke_puff.png
12:14 jas_ smoke_puff.png ty
12:14 Zughy oh yeah, I found that one already, ty
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12:15 jas_ minetest is so weird
12:16 Zughy let's make it less weird then (?)
12:16 jas_ let's try and mash gpl quake 3 physics into it and see what happens
12:16 jas_ i been playing a lot of urban terror
12:16 jas_ seriously, i would love to put libpd into minetest though
12:17 jas_ and redo keys (input bindings) and sounds
12:17 Zughy I'd love some collisions checks
12:17 jas_ there you go
12:17 jas_ well that was fun
12:17 jas_ i'm gonna go back to these dumb mobs
12:18 Zughy enjoy it
12:18 Wuzzy Anyone on GNU/Linux been compiling Minetest -dev so far?
12:18 Wuzzy if yes, do translations work for you?
12:19 Wuzzy because they don't for me
12:22 jas_ well yes but everything is english so i don't know
12:22 jas_ a lot of good that was
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12:25 Wuzzy aha
12:25 Wuzzy so i'm not the only one for whom translations broke again...
12:25 jas_ i'd have been surprised if it weren't english
12:26 jas_ wasn't?  hah!
12:33 Zughy uhm, I see there are two keys (skeleton and default) but in the creative inventory I can only find the former. Hhhow so?
12:37 jas_ i think the regular silver one you
12:37 jas_ well i get it mixed up, but one is the result of use the other
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12:37 jas_ once you use it, it has the information embedded in it, and it turns color?  i've only ever used them like once, to try them
12:37 jas_ they seem super nifty tho
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12:56 jas_ alright, eight mobs to choose from on formspec lol
12:57 jas_ !server jastest
12:57 MinetestBot jas_: jastest | jastest.duckdns.org | Clients: 0/15, 0/0 | Version: 5.3.0-dev / minetest | Ping: 133ms
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14:37 Copenhagen_Bram How do I start making a translation mod for minetest?
14:37 Copenhagen_Bram I wanna translate minetest stuff to a non-ISO language, namely toki pona
14:38 Copenhagen_Bram I was told earlier that I could make a mod for that. So where do I begin?
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14:39 jas_ https://i.imgur.com/93MfhOS.png
14:39 jas_ i dunno copenhagen_bram, there was a intllib mod or some such
14:40 Copenhagen_Bram hmm, lemme look into that
14:41 Copenhagen_Bram maybe i can cargo cult it or something
14:41 Krock does downsampling really improve performance for you?
14:41 jas_ i dunno, i will find out some point
14:41 jas_ between obs and puredata
14:41 jas_ with gem
14:41 oil_boi Wuzzy, what are the sources and licenses on fire_extinguish_*.ogg in the mineclone2 fire mod?
14:42 jas_ and jack plus pulseaudio
14:42 jas_ it churns up quick
14:42 oil_boi Wuzzy, is it this?
14:42 oil_boi https://freesound.org/people/ReWired/sounds/48693/
14:42 jas_ Krock: it looks sweet at 800x600 lemme tell ya! hahah
14:42 Krock Copenhagen_Bram: first of all Minetest needs to know about the language. try adding a po/ directory plus minetest.po file with LANG_CODE=???  so that the client translations can be loaded
14:42 Wuzzy see README
14:42 Krock of it's about inttlib.. well, check the API of the mod. likely possible to add such support
14:43 Wuzzy oil_boi: actually, its copied from MTG...
14:44 jas_ i'm hoping to get a solid 60fps at as many conditions as possible
14:44 Wuzzy oil_boi: Copyright (C) 2012 Perttu Ahola (celeron55) <celeron55@gmail.com> (CC BY-SA 3.0)
14:45 jas_ besides right now i'm running the server on the machine i'm playing/developing/streaming on ... but yeah, undersampling to me just looks cool like software quake renderer
14:54 oil_boi Wuzzy, thank you
14:55 jas_ right now you gotta right click the block (flag) onto yours to cap, but i'll add on_punch too... then just hmm, explode if held more than n seconds or dropped, etc hehe
14:55 jas_ minetest so fun
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14:57 MinetestBot [git] v-rob -> minetest/minetest: Add `animated_image` to clickthrough elements (#9724) bc60e44 https://git.io/Jftt6 (2020-04-25T14:55:21Z)
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15:19 jas_ upon further consideration that idea seems complicated; i'll pin it. instead, ... *mkdir shooter*
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15:53 Copenhagen_Bram <Krock> Copenhagen_Bram: first of all Minetest needs to know about the language. try adding a po/ directory plus minetest.po file with LANG_CODE=???  so that the client translations can be loaded
15:53 Copenhagen_Bram where? in ~/.minetest?
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16:03 Krock minetest source
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16:12 MarwolTuk Moin, someone into modding minerest-games default rails (carts)? Am I right it's impossible to get them connected to non-raillike nodes? I'm currently trying to extend on carts rail-system and some stuff isn't really doable by using raillike.
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16:17 appguru did you know that dropping a tool while using it just readds it to your inventory?
16:17 appguru Minetest definitely needs more docs :P
16:18 jas_ hm, didn't work for me
16:18 rubenwardy that's due to how itemstack returns work, it sucks]
16:19 appguru jas: you have to hold LMB while wielding a tool and then press Q while still wielding
16:19 jas_ i did it dropped it and i kept digging
16:19 jas_ with my hand
16:19 appguru hmm
16:20 appguru works for me
16:20 appguru does the item have an on_drop?
16:20 jas_ it's just a wood pick
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16:22 appguru worked for me with a dia pick, MT 5.2 and newest MTG
16:22 jas_ well when i drop the tool while digging it doesn't re-add it directly back into my inventory, my digging stays fixed on the node
16:22 jas_ and the tool slides away
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16:23 jas_ maybe it's item_drop mod for auto-pickup?
16:23 appguru no, I don't have item_drop installed
16:23 jas_ no i mean i do
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16:23 jas_ https://github.com/jastevenson303/ll_items
16:24 appguru eh lol
16:24 jas_ is that why it doesn't re-add for me?
16:24 appguru I just realized I immediately picked up the item after dropping because my LMB was pressed
16:24 jas_ rubenwardy: what's that about then?
16:24 appguru Probably the item should not be pointable for the first 0.5 secs :P
16:24 jas_ if you don't let go of LMB it's not pointable, because you're still digging whatever node ur digging
16:25 jas_ for me, i don't lose focus of the node unless i let go of dig, regardless of item dropping
16:25 jas_ and if the node disappears it goes to whatever node, unless i let go of LMB.  it always prioritizes the node until i let go of lmb
16:26 appguru well, I was not digging anything, just pointing in the air
16:26 jas_ and clicked?
16:26 jas_ on an item?  i guess i just really don't understand sorry
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16:40 rubenwardy jas_: some callbacks allow you to return an itemstack to replace the wielded item
16:41 rubenwardy the side effect of this is that if you try to set the wielded item in another method, then it won't actually change the weild item
16:41 jas_ oh so maybe his tool has an on_drop callback?
16:41 rubenwardy as the callback will replace your change when you return from the callback
16:41 rubenwardy no, he's already said it's due to holding LMB
16:41 jas_ oh
16:41 jas_ ok
16:42 jas_ the cow looks like a squished spider when it dies now lol
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17:55 begui What are some of the best mods out there?
17:55 tf2ftw are there any cheat sheets as to where to find ores? depths etc
17:56 tf2ftw begui, my favorite is item_drop
17:56 tf2ftw and illumination
18:07 Krock !wiki Mods
18:07 MinetestBot "Mods (short for modifications or modules) are user-created modifications to the game in such a way that adds to or alters the gameplay." - http://wiki.minetest.net/Mods
18:07 Krock there should be a list of popular ones
18:07 Krock on servers - at least.
18:09 begui Oh sweet
18:09 begui doesn't seem like the page is up
18:10 appguru It is though
18:10 appguru You just have to be lucky
18:11 begui well would you look at that... :D
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18:47 * texmex pulls the daily oil_boi commits
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19:11 tf2ftw can someon explain to me how to use the areas mod? When to you click twice on a block?
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19:27 majochup tf2ftw the mod that protects with /pos1 or the protection blocks mod?
19:27 tf2ftw the one that uses /pos1
19:28 tf2ftw I'll use whichever one is easier though
19:28 majochup tf2ftw, you get a area, go down in one corner (as deep as you please) /pos 1, go up on the other corner of the area you want protected (as high as you please) /protect areaname
19:29 majochup although iirc there's limitations on how big an area can get
19:30 tf2ftw let me try
19:32 tf2ftw majochup, thanks for your help. I've placed clear boxes with numbers in them but I'm not sure how the area is defined. hmm
19:33 cheapie Is there a "proper way" (like through the engine?) to work with sqlite databases from in a mod, or is the only real way to do this to load some random sqlite library from within the mod?
19:33 majochup clear numbers where?
19:34 majochup tf2ftw, as far as I know there isn't a need for numbers.
19:35 tf2ftw majochup, https://imgur.com/N5dWRda
19:35 majochup tf2ftw, did you place both positions?
19:36 tf2ftw yes it gives 2 clear boxes like that
19:36 tf2ftw but they are placed in the position I'm standing
19:36 majochup now you do /protect areaname
19:36 tf2ftw ooh
19:36 majochup it should protect the area, after that you can remove the 1 and 2 nodes
19:37 tf2ftw ok got it. do you know how many blocks the perimeter is?
19:38 majochup the max perimiter?
19:40 tf2ftw Im confused as to what defines the area. I see placing these 2 blocks but I don't understand what's actually protected and not
19:41 majochup let's say you wanna protect a square of 20x20x20, first you go to one corner, dig down 20 blocks, /pos1. You go to the other corner of that 20x20 square, go up 20 blocks and /pos2. Now you /protect areaname
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19:47 majochup tf2ftw, did it work?
19:47 tf2ftw majochup, ok i understand now. Thanks a lot
19:48 majochup Wonderful!
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20:03 tf2ftw Mahjong, i've figured it all out. It's pretty easy! Thanks again
20:04 Mahjong you're welcome xD
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20:14 Wuzzy JT2 server's still down ... 🙁
20:14 Wuzzy am I addicted to JT2? 😀
20:14 galex-713 joined #minetest
20:15 Wuzzy Yesterday I lost interact priv on JT2, lol. Apparently I messed with a safe too often. haha
20:16 Wuzzy Any JT2 / former Just Test or @test@ players here? 🙂
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20:33 majochup b-but
20:33 majochup tf2ftw, I'm called Majochup, Mahjong >:c
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21:10 jas_ lol
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22:14 rschulman Is there a minimap mod anywhere?
22:16 nephele something different than the normal minimap you mean?
22:17 benrob0329 (minetest includes a minimap as of, 0.4.16?)
22:27 rschulman Well... that was embarassing.
22:28 rschulman Though, apparently its been disabled by some mod I'm running right now. :)
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22:31 sfan5 https://wiki.minetest.net/Mapping_Kit
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23:16 cheapie This is why you can't let me play with pistons... https://cheapiesystems.com/media/images/screenshot_20200425_181236.png
23:17 cheapie (4-bit adder with display, 100% relay logic)
23:17 sagax hi all!
23:17 sagax how to change software video_driver?
23:18 sagax what value must be put to minetest.conf?
23:18 nephele cheapie, hmm... doens't seem that bad
23:18 nephele i was expecting something worse
23:19 cheapie sagax: Not sure why you would want to use the software driver, but "video_driver = software"
23:19 sagax thanks
23:19 cheapie Just keep in mind software rendering is often buggy and slow.
23:20 sfan5 software barely works, I'd suggest "video_driver = burningsvideo" instead
23:20 sfan5 that also doesn't really work well, but it works somewhat properly
23:21 cheapie nephele: It's a kind of modular setup, I guess - the pistons that look kinda randomly arranged in the top left are a 4-bit adder, the ones in a line at the bottom are the decoder (converts a 4-bit number to one of 16 outputs), and then the mess up top by the display is the character ROM.
23:21 cheapie Said ROM is also, yes, built from relays...
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23:30 nephele i wonder why one wants to use a software renderer in the engine above just using llvmpipe or so for the normal video driver to provide opengl, but eh
23:32 appguru software rendering could actually have awesome advantages
23:33 sfan5 such as?
23:33 appguru raytracing
23:33 appguru I have to admit that nowadays graphic cards have catched up on this, but if you want to write a raytracer CPU rendering is usually the way to go
23:34 appguru And a second thing I thought of would be some sort of extended Z-buffer in order to get rid of the Z-sorting issue
23:35 nephele why would you want raytracing on the cpu?
23:36 appguru because of the increased flexibilty, GPU programming is very restricted and hardware-specific
23:36 appguru and because especially older GPUs can hardly be used for raytracing
23:36 nephele GPU's are architecturally designed to process instructions in parralel, they are especially usefull for tasks like raytracing
23:36 nephele cpus not so much
23:37 appguru I know
23:37 appguru But that can't change the fact that the GPUs of many devices just don't support it
23:37 nephele In any case, llvmpipe is the fastest software renderer we have
23:37 nephele seems kind of pointless to use a different one inside the engine
23:38 appguru I'm not speaking of MT at this point
23:38 appguru I rather thought about software rendering in general
23:38 nephele appguru, sure, but even if you do it in the CPU you won't get nearly the performance you would need for real-time raytracing
23:38 appguru depends
23:38 nephele if you want to pre-render a scene that would be fine i guess
23:38 appguru with reduced resolution one could come pretty close
23:38 nephele Yes, but nobody likes 144p ;)
23:39 nephele With modern cpus you could do a lot of the work too... the 32 core variants and stuff
23:39 appguru ^
23:39 nephele maybe do some work on gpu and some on cpu even
23:39 appguru yeah
23:51 rubenwardy nephele: performance isn't the only thing, software raytracers are much easier to write
23:51 rubenwardy They're also useful on machines without GPUs, like servers
23:52 rubenwardy I was briefly getting minetest to render on a headless server using a virtual X server
23:52 rubenwardy But gave up on that
23:52 rubenwardy Two reason I've wanted to do that - for formspec rendering tests, and for automatic screenshots on capture the flag
23:54 nephele rubenwardy, well i was arguing mostly with mt in mind, there it does not make much sense to me to build raytracing based on the cpu
23:55 nephele minetest on headless X should work fine? although nothing prevents you from plugging a gpu in a server, not that you need to have a high framerate
23:55 rubenwardy True
23:55 rubenwardy Travis VMs don't have access to GPUs or OpenGL
23:56 nephele I'd use llvmpipe if you need software opengl
23:56 nephele not the best performance, but still okay
23:56 rubenwardy Didn't know about that
23:56 rubenwardy I'd still like to do a CTF screenshoter one day
23:57 rubenwardy I'd extend the csm API to allow taking screenshots and manipulating the player position
23:57 nephele so the server runs a client that teleports around to make screenshots?
23:57 rubenwardy And rotation
23:57 rubenwardy Yeah
23:57 rubenwardy It would be a fun experiment
23:57 nephele indeed
23:57 rubenwardy Tbh, I could host it on my RPi
23:58 rubenwardy I'm not sure how the camera would know what to take photos of
23:58 rubenwardy It could have access to events and look for clusters of players
23:58 nephele Setting the camer angle in csm is something i've been missing for quite some time btw :P
23:58 rubenwardy Then a heightmap could be used to work out optimal placement of the camera
23:59 nephele I suppose it depends on the maps you have, if its just fixed maps mostly fixed positions should work fine probably

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