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IRC log for #minetest, 2020-04-09

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:03 oil_boi_ Verticen: It's like how I used to play Minecraft beta 1.3, only I put my own spin on it basically. Here is the main Github https://github.com/oilboi/Crafter Here is the clientside mod https://github.com/oilboi/crafter_client The forum post won't load, here's a few videos: https://youtu.be/w88BgvHJpRY https://youtu.be/LL68MNfdX1Y https://youtu.be/wwLIxopGVIA https://youtu.be/zs3BHRymxlw
00:04 oil_boi_ I have to make a website using github.io soon though because it's getting pretty out of control trying to show people when they ask about it :T
00:05 oil_boi_ You can run the main game without the clientside mod but the weather particles won't load also I'm currently in the middle of putting in rain along with transfering the FOV hook to the clientside mod so the server can tell the client when the player is running making the FOV transistion smooth
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00:13 Verticen oil_boi_ I watched some of your videos, you've added some sweet stuff! I hope you plan to keep working on this, it looks like it could get minetest close to the Minecraft level of polish that it ought to be at. I'll give it a shot when I get time.
00:13 Noclip oil_boi_: Shouldn't both features (weather particles and FOV) be possible without cllientside mods if mintest's api would support optional particles and game controlled FOV regulation?
00:17 oil_boi_ Noclip: I had them clientside, lag causes them to completely bug out. IE you can walk outside of the weather area, FOV will go negative and instantly turn on fully instead of smoothly transitioning. Also weather particles and FOV should be calculated by the client as that's a LOT of load to put onto the server on top of running the normal game. Look at first person shooters, online MMORPGs, etc, the server will tell the
00:17 oil_boi_ client what is going on, where the objects are, and such. Then the client will show the user the special effects and move objects and players around accordingly
00:17 oil_boi_ Err, I had them server side, thinking too many steps ahead here :P
00:18 oil_boi_ Also Verticen thank you! I just wish I could send a clientside mod to the client and have it run as if you installed a clientside mod as the current method that minetest uses
00:20 oil_boi_ The moment entity rotation becomes available clientside, IE you can keep an entity in a static yaw, pitch, and roll as according to what the server thinks but the client sees something else based on what the mob is doing I will jump for joy
00:21 oil_boi_ Whoops, literally did the same thing again hahaha
00:21 Verticen oil_boi_ yeah, that would be really ideal if you could do that, would definitely make the game more accessable.
00:21 Verticen to include it in the content browser that is
00:23 oil_boi_ I will do that at Alpha 0.5 because I'm not happy with how the code base is yet to release it into the wild like that and have a new user able to download it only to have the game crash on some bug that I haven't found yet after they've seen the game running great on Youtube. Aka the first judgement crash. Also I need to make the mobs auto rotate until they hit their goal rotation based on the direction they're trying to go
00:23 oil_boi_ into so they don't swivel when they're jumping over a node
00:28 Noclip So the serverside mod api actually does support changing the FOV? Didn't know that.
00:28 Noclip However your performance argument seems valid. If clientside scripting gets a thing in Minetest your concept should be as easy as every other serverside installed mod right now, but at the moment your setup unfortunately is a bit tricky.
00:30 oil_boi_ Yes Noclip, it's pretty cool! And I just learned I can't set the FOV clientside yet :(
00:34 Noclip Ok, so after leaning that the FOV can be set clientside I now learned that this is wrong :D
00:37 oil_boi_ Noclip: The server can tell the client what FOV to set, it seems that the client cannot modify it's own FOV while in a server
00:39 Noclip Mhh, that should allow creating some really interesting trolling mods ...
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00:43 Noclip For example a mod which adds a drug that makes your FOV trigger between to states after you've taken it.
00:49 oil_boi_ Hahaha that's a good idea. EXTREME fov
00:58 oil_boi_ Dude
00:58 oil_boi_ https://minecraft.net/en-us/attribution/sound/
00:58 oil_boi_ JACKPOT
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00:59 Verticen Nice find oil!
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01:06 oil_boi_ Verticen: Antvenom called them out https://youtu.be/nDnDbIG6GRg
01:06 oil_boi_ They hid that for years, it's still not documented in the game itself
01:07 oil_boi_ I was sitting there and I was like, "Where can I get some cool sounds" and then I remembered that video. Apparently a few weeks later they made that page to show all the sounds they used
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01:11 oil_boi_ It's time to go crazy
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01:25 Noclip What's the status of clientside scripting developement? Is it something that could be part of the engine soon or might it take a longer time?
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01:47 yrungr anyone else have a problem with the android app not working with the keyboard? i can't enter username and password.
01:53 swift110 hey all
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02:05 oil_boi_ Verticen: https://freesound.org/people/C418/downloaded_sounds/
02:08 oil_boi_ Oh here's the new tnt sound https://freesound.org/people/alienbomb/sounds/39067/
02:08 oil_boi_ Some of the sound Minecraft is using are licensed as non commercial :O
02:10 oil_boi_ Like this one https://freesound.org/people/acclivity/sounds/13552/
02:11 oil_boi_ And the sound of water dripping :O :O https://freesound.org/people/acclivity/sounds/25879/
02:17 oil_boi_ Oh I found the original creeper and tnt ignite sound, unedited: https://freesound.org/people/Ned%20Bouhalassa/sounds/8320/
02:18 oil_boi_ I was wondering why the sound of igniting TNT changed in Minetest and I guess no one could find the original source :L
02:35 Noclip Will Minetest still write to debug.txt if I specify an other logfile with `--logfile`?
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03:41 nephele Noclip, Clientside mods are already implemented, The big chunk that is missing is a way for servers to send those mods to clients to execute, and an efficient comms channel for them
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03:43 Noclip It looks like the cloundlands mod isn't compatible with Minetest 5.2: `Unknown node: mcl_core:vine`
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03:48 nephele Missing nodes is not neccesarily an engine incompatibility, more likely that the mod (or it's dependencies) failed to register it for some reason... you may want to find out where the mcL_core mod is and check why it does not register that node
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03:50 Noclip The mcl_core mod is not in use as it is only an optional dependency.
03:50 nephele You apparently need it
03:50 nephele Or used it before
03:50 nephele so enable it :/
03:53 Noclip The mod had no official update in the last 1-2 month (contentdb) and it definitely worked before Minetest 5.2 even in Minimal developement test without any other mods.
03:53 nephele So... create a new world, and see if it complains then?
03:54 nephele If it depends on a node it never defines that sounds like a mod bug to me though
03:54 nephele Can't tell you for sure without seeing code though
03:55 Noclip This is the file that seems to be responsible: https://github.com/Treer/cloudlands/blob/master/cloudlands.lua
03:57 Noclip <nephele "If it depends on a node it never"> That's what I meant with "isn't compatible".
03:59 nephele Noclip, that makes no sense, the engine does not define any node in that namespace ever
03:59 nephele builtin only defines some very narrow nodes, like ignore and air
04:00 nephele also, please refrain from using riot's replies, the irc bridge mangles them so badly they are basically unreadable on irc
04:02 Noclip Do I understand you right that you did look at the code and couldn't find any issues?
04:03 nephele I said your argument doesn't make sense, i don't know yet if the mod has issues, i only skimmed it
04:03 nephele you might want to change your minetest settings to error out on deprecated functions though, that should show you quite quickly if this mod depends on functions that are deprecated or removed
04:07 Noclip Wait, how can my argument not make sense? I just said the exact same version of this mod worked before Minetest 5.2 but doesn't work in Minetest 5.2. I don't know the reason for that but I know that it keeps crashing.
04:08 nephele >That's what I meant with "isn't compatible".
04:09 nephele I was reffering to this, that a node isn't available is not an indication of incompatibility by itself
04:09 nephele it does not work with the same setup, woudl be
04:12 Noclip Isn't that the same? If the mod api from Minetest 5.2 and the mod don't work together (without crashing) isn't that then an incompatability?
04:14 nephele Sure, but a node not beeing available isn't an engine incompatibility, the problem is likely earlier in the code
04:15 nephele In any case, you can probably contact the author and ask them for an update, 5.2 isn't that old yet anyhow
04:20 Noclip If I use the mod with Mineclone 2 it crashes with the following reason: `Unknown node: vines:vine_end`
04:20 Noclip The mod is compatible with several different vines-mods and now those optional dependencies have somehow "bugged" themselves into hard dependencies.
04:23 Noclip This is the full crash-message while using the mod in Minetest Game without any other mods: https://pastebin.com/raw/vGsmk1Tn
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04:45 nephele I don't think the problem is deps at all, just my 2 cents
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06:30 Elouin Are there any plans to fix the current state of the forum anytime soon?
06:32 Extex It's being worked on
06:33 Extex There are some hardware issues and C55 is trying to fix them
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06:45 Elouin Extex: thanks for the info, thats good to hear.
06:51 misspapa1a water can cause fall damage?
06:54 Noclip Yes
06:54 misspapa1a oh okay oops
06:56 Noclip It's basically very simple: If you hit the ground too hard you get fall damage. Water slows you down but as in real life you can still get damage if the water isn't deep enough.
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07:01 misspapa1a we're falling 750 meters and hitting the water and dying on impact
07:02 misspapa1a at least that what I think happens
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07:04 Noclip For a 750 meter fall the water might have to be more than 100 meters deep ...
07:05 Noclip Is your spawnpoint somewhere high in the air or what's going on?
07:05 misspapa1a don't want to use a ladder to get to the mine
07:05 Noclip (It could be also several hundred meters.)
07:06 Noclip So you prefere dying over climbing the ladder? :joy:
07:07 Noclip *😂
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07:11 misspapa1a :)
07:15 calcul0n you can add a couple ladders to slow your fall
07:15 calcul0n like 50 empty blocks, 5 ladder, and so on...
07:17 Noclip misspapa1a: My tip: Dig a 2*1 tunnel straight down (as deep as you want) and let water constantly flow down at the first node while the other node has to keep dry. If you then want to get down to the mine you just keep switching between the air and the water spot to alternately speed up and slow down. This way you should get down still very fast but without getting damage.
07:18 misspapa1a Noclip: we have that but we want to free-fall all the way to the mine
07:18 misspapa1a it's fun to wathc
07:18 misspapa1a s/wathc/watch/
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07:22 Noclip Use the coordinates to find out (by trying) at which hight you have to switch to the water stream to get down as fast as possible without taking damage. You can slow down faster in water by holding space.
07:29 misspapa1a yeah apparently this isn't minecraft and water doesn't slow you down nearly as much lol
07:30 nephele yeah, probably make your water deeper... has to be quite deep in minetest compared to mc
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07:31 Noclip I don't think water slows you down much faster in Minecraft. In Minecraft it's just impossible to get falldamage in water.
07:31 misspapa1a oh
07:32 nephele in mc you can recover from a long fall with a set ammoutn of water, in mt the ammount of water just keeps increasing
07:32 nephele which i guess means there is a missing upper limit on fall speed like you would have irl :)
07:33 Noclip In Minecraft one block of water will always compensate all your fall damge no matter from how high you were falling.
07:35 nephele it won't stop you from hitting the ground of the water though
07:36 Noclip I think the amount of water doesn't matter so less than one block should also be perfectly fine ...
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07:40 Noclip nephele: Yea, in MC water doesn't really likes physics ...
07:40 nephele In reality you would break your legs and die, so take your pick :)
07:40 misspapa1a Yeah I prefer to injure myself in video games than real life
07:51 Noclip Just tried it: Falling from higher than 1000 blocks and landing on the edge of 2 pixel deep water flow gives you no damage at all in Minecraft.
07:52 nephele how would you determine that something is 2px deep
07:53 Noclip I looked at it ... very very closely 😆.
07:59 nephele If you were at it closelsy, i am going to assume it took more than 2px of your screen ;)
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08:02 Noclip I didn't mean screen pixels I meant pixels of the default MC texturepack.
08:03 nephele so 2/16 blocks high :)
08:06 Noclip Exactly
08:07 Noclip Or 125 mm
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08:18 Noclip Mhh you can still die in Minetest from touching the wall while falling so the 5.2 update didn't fix that ☹︎.
08:27 nephele you can also die when hitting a chunk boundary before it loaded :P
08:29 Noclip Sure? I think that never happend to me. I think I always just stopped falling or slowed down without getting any damage.
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10:38 sfan5 orbea: yea I don't expect a sapling to actually burn for any helpful duration
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10:50 Guest5274 hey
10:50 Guest5274 Helly people
10:50 Guest5274 I am going insane
10:50 Guest5274 I just downloaded minetest, and it looks great, and Iw anna play it with people from a whatsapp group
10:51 Guest5274 but for the life of me, I can not host a server, and get it to display in the list of servers in the join window or on servers.minetest.net
10:51 Guest5274 I do tech support for a living
10:51 Guest5274 I have a 100mbit up and down synchronous business grade internet connection
10:51 Guest5274 it doesnt work in ubuntu, or windows 10
10:51 Guest5274 what am I doing wrong?
10:51 Guest5274 I just wanna play!!
10:52 Guest5274 (yes its allowed to the firewall. And dedicated doesnt work either T_T)
10:52 Guest5274 I can see other servers juuuuust fine, just not my own, and neither can my friends!
10:53 rubenwardy You need to portforward UDP on your router to your computer
10:53 rubenwardy port 30000 UDP
10:53 Noclip Did you double-check the firewalls?
10:53 rubenwardy set  server_announce = true    in the settings (or check public server)
10:54 Elouin Guest5274: did you set announce to true, gave it url etc. first few fields for server here: https://wiki.minetest.net/Minetest.conf
10:54 Elouin also can people connect directly?
10:54 Guest5274 announce is true
10:54 rubenwardy also see https://wiki.minetest.net/Setting_up_a_server
10:54 Guest5274 those instructions mostly say "click new server and play"
10:54 Guest5274 I dont want a dedicated one, well only play when were online anway :D
10:55 rubenwardy you need to read " Allowing external players to connect "
10:55 Guest5274 Okay, I am ashamed to admit my degree is university so theory, and my clients never need that, so how do I portforwards that?
10:55 Noclip Can you connect from the same computer that is hosting the server to the server?
10:55 Guest5274 ah okay
10:55 Guest5274 I am just running it non-dedicated so yes by defintion
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10:59 UkeFudanshi Sorry T_T
10:59 UkeFudanshi I am the guy trying to setup the server
10:59 UkeFudanshi out of sheer desperation I had tried doing it via my unlimited mobile data
11:00 UkeFudanshi I switched back to regular internet and it dropped the connection here off course
11:00 UkeFudanshi okay, I will try the port forwaring then :d
11:01 Noclip Did you try hosting the server via your mobile internet connection?
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11:03 UkeFudanshi yes
11:03 UkeFudanshi didnt make a difference
11:03 UkeFudanshi still nothing
11:03 UkeFudanshi T_T
11:03 UkeFudanshi I feel like a boomer XD
11:06 Noclip Yes it does. As far as I know all the incomming internet traffic for mobile phones gets blocked by the ISP so it's completely impossible to host any kind of server over a mobile internet connection.
11:06 UkeFudanshi ah
11:07 UkeFudanshi well, it ddoesnt work on desktop either
11:07 UkeFudanshi now I am trying to get into the rother
11:07 UkeFudanshi router*
11:07 UkeFudanshi ... did I ever set up a password and username for this bish? Seems so :'(
11:09 UkeFudanshi okay I forgot
11:09 UkeFudanshi idea
11:09 UkeFudanshi isnt there some part that is forwarded by default?
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11:12 nephele UkeFudanshi: no, there can't be :)
11:12 UkeFudanshi ah I see, this is the one thing about IT I DONT know much about
11:12 UkeFudanshi I was like "le fuk it I WANNA PLAY lets dump it on a totally unprotected port instead of 30000" but I must be misunderstanding somethign here XD
11:13 Noclip First you should make sure that the internet connection that your router is using isn't subject to a ISP firewall, because if that's the there is no way you can host your server.
11:13 nephele the idea behind port forwarding is, that if you use ipv4 you sit behind a NAT an "network adress translation" layer, computers outside the NAT see your ip as the one of your router, it forwards packages to your computer and so
11:13 nephele a port forward means that an external port is send straight to your computer instead, but for that the router needs to actually know /which/ computer to send it to
11:13 nephele The easiest solution around this is to simply use ipv6 if you can, no NAT for ipv6 :)
11:13 UkeFudanshi Noclip In that case I will accept the challenge of explaining 5 fujoshis with no computer skills how to installl hamachi over whatsapp :)
11:14 nephele Hamachi is pretty shit tbh
11:14 UkeFudanshi but it works
11:14 nephele Not in my experience :)
11:14 UkeFudanshi I dont care if it gives me 69 internet stds
11:14 nephele don't you have an ipv6 adress?
11:14 UkeFudanshi or has five gazillion security holes
11:14 UkeFudanshi it allows me to play games XD
11:15 nephele yeah, but there are much better softwares if you just want a vpn, like FreeLAN or wireguard
11:15 UkeFudanshi lemme check :D
11:16 Noclip VPN as alternative for port forwarding is always a dirty solution but in the case of a ISP firewall there isn't much else you could do.
11:16 UkeFudanshi T_T
11:16 UkeFudanshi I dont have ipv6
11:17 UkeFudanshi according to test-ipv6 site
11:17 nephele Noclip: "ISP firewall"??
11:18 UkeFudanshi well, I KNOW I can use hamchi with people
11:18 nephele do you mean carrier grade NAT?
11:18 UkeFudanshi so that shoudl work
11:18 nephele UkeFudanshi: oof, sometimes you just have to turn it on in your router :D
11:18 UkeFudanshi Except, I totally forgot the password and username I set for my router a year ago
11:18 UkeFudanshi haha, rip
11:18 UkeFudanshi hamachi it is :d
11:19 nephele or FreeLAN :P
11:19 nephele in any case, have fun with the game hehe :)
11:20 Noclip nephele: I mean the case where the ISP just blocks all incomming traffic, no matter what are the technical details and reasons.
11:20 UkeFudanshi ooorrrr
11:20 UkeFudanshi one of you could make a server for us? T_T
11:20 UkeFudanshi All we want is a server ot play on for few hours thats simply the vanilla base game
11:20 UkeFudanshi thats literally it XD
11:21 UkeFudanshi we can all SEE servers just fine, just not make our own XD
11:21 Noclip Deosn't he need a public server for the VPN? Hamachi has one but does FreeLAN also have one?
11:22 Elouin nephele: never heard of it, but serverless vpn for gaming sounds pretty nice. :D but not as easy to set up as i can see.
11:22 Noclip UkeFudanshi: Are you sure you want to play vanilla Minetest Game?
11:22 nephele Noclip: that makes no sense
11:22 Elouin it = freelan
11:23 nephele how would they block all incoming trafic?
11:23 UkeFudanshi why not? :D
11:23 UkeFudanshi I never played minecraft before
11:23 UkeFudanshi we just wanna build stuff
11:23 nephele udp is stateless (normally) so how do you expect to get udp traffic back?
11:23 UkeFudanshi XD
11:23 UkeFudanshi and chat XD
11:23 UkeFudanshi I am new to this game, is there something wrong with the vanille game? XD
11:23 nephele Noclip: a VPN does not need a server neccesarily
11:24 nephele you only need a VPN server if you need double sided NAT punching
11:24 nephele Elouin: if you have an ipv6 adress i would just use that tbh :P
11:24 nephele minetest does not require a LAN enviroment at all
11:25 Elouin yeah, but old lan games do
11:25 nephele UkeFudanshi: Some people dislike it :)
11:25 Elouin and i just really dislike hamachi
11:25 Noclip UkeFudanshi: It has just a very small amount of features and has never been meant to be a full featured game. It's mostly a modding base.
11:25 nephele Elouin: I was going to try and use wireguard to play saints row 2 heh
11:25 UkeFudanshi ah okay :D  but we can build stuff in it :3
11:25 nephele If you need a lan like enviroment that might also be an option
11:25 UkeFudanshi could someone host us a server? :D
11:25 nephele does not need you to generate x.509 certs anyway...
11:26 UkeFudanshi it doesnt need to be permanent XD
11:26 UkeFudanshi we just wanna play for a gew hours XD  I have spend 2.5 hours trying to make that happen now XD
11:26 Elouin UkeFudanshi: you could just join one of the many empty servers. would be the same as someone here hosting one...
11:26 UkeFudanshi true, but dont they have passwords? XD
11:26 UkeFudanshi also they all run fivethousand mods, I dont know what those do? XD
11:27 nephele oh, it usually means, you should "register" an account
11:27 Elouin there are no passwords in the traditional way
11:27 nephele not that it is a server password
11:27 nephele I would host a server, but my gamemode isn't finished yet haha
11:28 Elouin nephele: yeah, but i would not want to host a vpn server for all the people i want to play old games with... and freelan seems to have a serverless option.
11:31 UkeFudanshi aaah okay
11:31 UkeFudanshi well, theyre setting up hamachi now
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11:32 Noclip nephele: That's what I meant with "ISP firewall / port blocking": https://www.quora.com/How-do-I-forward-ports-if-my-ISP-blocks-all-inbound-connections
11:32 nephele >Most ISPs that block all inbound ports are shadier ones (mostly see these in south asia) where they are actually sharing a public IP with many customers.
11:33 nephele I assume this reffers to carrier-grade NAT, not sure what's "shady" about that though... there simply are not enough ipv4 adresses
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11:40 Noclip It might not be very common but if you have that problem there is nothing you can do about it.
11:40 Noclip Elouin: How could you host a vpn server if you're behind a firewall?
11:41 Elouin Noclip: open the required port?
11:41 Astrobe I've been looking at the "SAO breakage" thing and how MobsRedo was fixed in order to fix my old version.
11:42 Astrobe It seems to me that there could be a way to better fix it by making MobRedo queueing removal requests
11:42 Astrobe instead of testing everywhere if the object still exists.
11:43 Astrobe Or am I missing something ?
11:43 Noclip But if you can do that you could just directly open a port for minetest and wouldn't need the vpn.
11:44 Elouin yeah, but iwas talking about playing old lan only games with people over the internet.
11:45 Elouin like saints row 2 as nephele just wrote
11:46 Elouin Noclip: for Minetest i just opened the corresponding port in the servers firewall.
11:46 Noclip Oh okay. What's the technical reason for those games to be restriced to a lan network?
11:47 Elouin i have no idea.
11:50 Astrobe AFAIK thechnically the distinction between LAN and WAN does not really exist.
11:50 Elouin those games most of the time only have a server browser and dont allow direct ip based connections. i guess they do some broadcasting stuff or so to check if any fitting server answers...
11:50 nephele Elouin: if you are behind a NAT (or a firewall that drops inbound traffic) you can't host the NAT server inside it
11:51 nephele but the other end may be able to host it if they don't have a NAT
11:51 Elouin nephele: yeah, but who is?
11:51 nephele anyone with an ipv6 adress :P
11:52 Noclip So for the client and server software the different IP-adress-areas are the only difference between LAN and WAN?
11:52 Elouin o.O
11:52 nephele Astrobe: there is a destinction, many old games send broadcast packages for local networks to negotiatie lobbies and stuff, that normally doens't pass through the router :)
11:52 sfan5 you can test if a server is reachable from the outside using !up <ip address> <port>, IPv6 supported too
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11:53 Elouin yeah, almost all my servers have ipv6 addresses next to ipv4 and i dont have any problems with inbound traffic over ipv6. that would be stupid if so.
11:53 nephele Noclip: mostly it's ip adresses, for ipv6 its a bit different, you can expect almost all ipv6 devices to have a public ipv6 adress, but you can additionally have a local ipv6 adress aswell for routing in a LAN
11:53 nephele but most games, afaik, dont take advantage of that
11:53 UkeFudanshi we colonized the german server and found a place where we can still build :D
11:53 UkeFudanshi were playing now :D
11:53 UkeFudanshi later! thanks for the help :)
11:54 Elouin UkeFudanshi: 👍
11:54 sfan5 Astrobe: the issue was that mobs_redo did not return from on_step, sure you could delay the removal until it was done doing things to a dead object but I consider that behaviour wrong either way
11:55 Noclip UkeFudanshi: Which server are you playing on?
11:55 UkeFudanshi german vanilla server
11:55 UkeFudanshi it was empty
11:55 sfan5 "did not return from on_step after destroying the object"*
11:55 UkeFudanshi two people joint
11:55 sfan5 !server german vanilla
11:55 MinetestBot sfan5: German-Vanilla-server | ronnix.ddns.net:30002 | Clients: 5/64, 0/5 | Version: 5.2.0 / minetest | Ping: 100ms
11:55 UkeFudanshi now they tell us where we can still build :D
11:55 sfan5 hm
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11:59 Astrobe what do you mean "did not return from on_step"? That is does not exit on_step as soon as it deletes the object?
12:00 * Noclip sent a long message:  < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/HqgZwxxEQuAtuBVtlHewAuDL >
12:00 Noclip (source: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=22359)
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12:02 sfan5 Astrobe: yes
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12:03 Noclip 3d_armor, travelnet, mobs, bows ...
12:03 Noclip I would definitely not consider this as a Vanilla Mintest Game server.
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12:08 nephele yeah, only minimal allowed :D
12:08 nephele git checkout has no mtg ;))
12:11 UkeFudanshi okay
12:12 UkeFudanshi stupid question time
12:12 UkeFudanshi how to make stufff
12:12 UkeFudanshi I am working on a small house
12:12 UkeFudanshi I know I can make things in inventory
12:12 UkeFudanshi but how does it work?
12:12 UkeFudanshi the German doesnt help
12:12 UkeFudanshi XD
12:12 twoelk what do you want to make?
12:12 UkeFudanshi door, windows, glass, bed
12:12 UkeFudanshi roof
12:13 UkeFudanshi giant wooden d*ck
12:13 UkeFudanshi but first a house :D
12:13 twoelk for door put 6xplanks in 3 rows of two in the crafting grid
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12:14 UkeFudanshi okay
12:14 UkeFudanshi but
12:14 UkeFudanshi how to make planks
12:14 UkeFudanshi how does the crafting grid work
12:14 UkeFudanshi which button to push? XD
12:14 twoelk for furnace put 8 blocks of cobble around empty middle in crafting grid
12:14 Noclip Wait, unified_inventory is also on the mod list, so you should be able look up all recipes ingame.
12:14 UkeFudanshi I never plaued minecraft either XD
12:15 twoelk punch a tree, put wood tree trunk block in crafting grid
12:15 nephele UkeFudanshi, just put the items into the grid, and take the item out of the result field
12:15 UkeFudanshi okay
12:16 nephele wood block to plank is a bit of an easier recipe
12:17 Elouin UkeFudanshi: http://wiki.minetest.com/wiki/Crafting
12:17 Noclip UkeFudanshi: Does your inventory look like this?: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/minetest-mods/unified_inventory/master/screenshot.png
12:17 Noclip (Press "I" to open it.)
12:17 UkeFudanshi yes
12:17 UkeFudanshi but in german
12:19 Noclip If you click on the items (which you can see on the right side of the inventory) the game should automatically show you how you can craft this item and if you also have the resources to do it, it should be able to craft it for you.
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12:21 UkeFudanshi yes
12:21 UkeFudanshi I think I just saw
12:21 UkeFudanshi so then, what are good reasources to start with except wood
12:22 UkeFudanshi Wood is everywhere, and earth and grass
12:22 UkeFudanshi maybe wool? Kill some roaming kebab?
12:22 twoelk get wood, make pick, get stone also some sand for baking to glas
12:23 Noclip Stone
12:23 twoelk also replant trees nearby and punch some grass to find wheat seeds
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12:24 UkeFudanshi ah baking nice
12:24 UkeFudanshi I want to make a glass window
12:24 UkeFudanshi do I also need to make an oven first?
12:24 Noclip If you want to upgrade from stone tools, steel would be a good choice.
12:24 twoelk get wool from sheep or punch junglegrass to find cotton
12:25 twoelk bake sand to get glass, use six glass blocks to get window panes
12:27 UkeFudanshi fuck
12:27 UkeFudanshi it disdonnected me
12:27 UkeFudanshi and my friends keep chrasing
12:28 Noclip !up ronnix.ddns.net:30002
12:28 MinetestBot ronnix.ddns.net:30002 is up (32ms) (IPv4)
12:29 UkeFudanshi yes its up
12:29 UkeFudanshi I can reconnect
12:29 UkeFudanshi but its unstable T_T
12:29 Noclip 👍️
12:30 Noclip !help
12:30 MinetestBot https://github.com/sfan5/minetestbot-modules/blob/master/COMMANDS.md
12:31 UkeFudanshi later~  Well switch to minecraft T_T  a friend has  a , ... "free" version XD
12:31 UkeFudanshi thanks for the help
12:31 UkeFudanshi game looks great with a stable server though!
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12:35 Noclip "free" version doesn't sound legal.
12:36 Ingar depends on your definition of legal
12:36 * twoelk got some very old "free" versions, somewhere
12:37 Noclip 😂
12:37 twoelk I sorta lost contact to mt around 2013 though :D
12:37 twoelk argh mc of course
12:38 rubenwardy it annoys me how he didn't even allow us to see the logs of the crashing friend
12:39 Ingar mc is a two edged swords these days
12:39 Ingar with ms at the helm, it's clearly more polished, streamlined and far more stable
12:39 Ingar but for me, "real mc" died when bukkit quit
12:39 twoelk ooooh, two sides, much advanced it seems
12:40 nephele rubenwardy: send logs of a friend? oh boy, that is quite difficult for non-technical people :P, but would have been nice indeed
12:41 nephele Ingar: The xbox version has stuff like a character generation and allows you to specify the character height and so, which i think is really neat :3
12:41 nephele i implemented a bit of a random height for joining players in my gamemode, but haven't done anything for the playmodel yet though (still that green alien from builtin...)
12:42 twoelk making putting up a server too easy generates many unstable unproffesional servers on bad hardware - you just can't win
12:42 Ingar nephele: I used to have teleporteres, machinse, solar panels, magic shit, volcanoes and what not. I'll gladly swith chargen for features
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12:42 Ingar runecraft <3
12:42 Ingar not sure if there's a similar mod for mt
12:43 nephele Hmm, can't say i have teleporters or magic or volcanos, but i have some machines and solar panels atleast
12:43 Noclip rubenwardy: Sounds a bit as if you would be addicted to crash reports xD
12:43 Ingar nephele: I gave up on modded mc. too much hasstle
12:44 nephele Ingar: ah, no i have that in my minetest gamemode :P
12:44 nephele not mc
12:44 nephele I tried to play modded mc with some people, but after like 40 minutes of loading it ran like shit
12:44 Ingar nephele: yeah I have those in mt too ;D
12:44 nephele minetest has some api features missing sure, but atleast it isn't as crappy :)
12:44 nephele Ingar: but, did you implement them yourself too? ;)
12:45 twoelk what api features are you missing?
12:46 Ingar nephele: I don't code mt
12:46 nephele clientside support for setting camera, clientside support for getting keystrokes, touch input, and mouse input, support for serversend clientside mods, support for clientside lua prediction of block placement, support for a good network api between cs and ss mods
12:46 nephele not an authoritive list, but those are the things that annoy me the most
12:46 nephele this, coming from someone who used to mod on Garry's mod anyhow :)
12:47 nephele Ingar: but i do :D maybe i should code a bit more today
12:47 Ingar nephele: I wrote my own game that never got finished ;)
12:48 Noclip rubenwardy: Do you want another crash report? I have one.
12:48 nephele Also mt is missing support for any kind of lazy loading, late block registering, dynamic textures and so
12:48 nephele sending meshes after the game started too :), i would totally make mostly realistic trees with L-tree system if i could send actuall tree meshes
12:49 nephele but can't really the way it currently is
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12:50 nephele twoelk, hope that gives some insight into what is missing, atleast for me :P
12:51 Noclip ... clientside support for getting microphone and webcam data ...
12:51 nephele Noclip, pfft
12:52 nephele What would you need that for? if you want to add voicechat you would be way better off implementing voip in the engine than trying that in lua
12:53 Noclip I didn't mean that seriously I just had to think about it while reading "clientside support for getting keystrokes, touch input, and mouse input".
12:53 Elouin maybe playing minetest eyetoy style. xD
12:54 nephele Noclip, I do need that really, if i want to build a non-blocking gui to peak into chests and stuff
12:54 twoelk mmh, nephele has clientside plans it seems
12:55 nephele if i open a formspec then the mouse gets locked completely, I could draw on the normal screen but then i have no way to change the gui state based on inputs
12:55 nephele twoelk, some things just should be done clientside to be effective
12:55 Astrobe That an os.execute("start skype") away. will work for 99% of the people with which you don't want to voice chat.
12:56 nephele like, my furnaces and stuff have animated formspecs, which currently means that the server animates all of them all the time by changing their formspec strings... and that gets replicated over the network
12:56 twoelk @nephele, but would that be save?
12:56 nephele but realistically, you only ever want one formspec to be animated, the one you are looking at at this very moment
12:57 nephele I can't use force formspec open either, if i do that i need to keep forcing it to get an animation, and you get a race condition when you close it where the user closes it, and then gets a new force open, after which the server then stops sending them once it acks the close
12:57 twoelk I mean should the client really know all things, like what's in closed chests?
12:58 nephele clients already know this
12:58 twoelk sort of
12:58 nephele not sort of, completely
12:58 nephele opening a chest reads the formspec client from the meta and renders the chest content, normally at that node
12:59 nephele but the client has already recieved the chest content beforehand
12:59 Noclip The devs definitely have to make sure that keyboard input can only be captured while the Minetest window is in the focus ...
12:59 nephele Noclip, I certainly did not mean a os-api, just one in the event loop while the player is beeing controlled
13:00 nephele a naive implementation would maybe allow capturing outside, but that is really not usefull if you want to know mouse location and stuff :)
13:01 twoelk yet I think that a clientside diamond detector should not be able to scan other inventories - that opens too many doors to clientside cheating
13:02 nephele ... but it already can
13:03 twoelk nothing is perfect - and that is one of the many reasons csm development has slowed down
13:03 nephele that's not really a problem you can solve easily though... unless you have < 1ms pings :
13:04 nephele twoelk: that it could be used for cheating is an inherent propert though
13:04 nephele i don't see a problem with this personally, if someoen cheats i can deal with them
13:04 nephele that's more of a socital problem and not a technical one imo
13:07 Noclip Is there some type of serverside xray protection? In noclip-mode (while beeing inside the rock) I always had the feeling that my viewing range was restricted to around 50 nodes. Is that true?
13:07 nephele there is no protection against xraying that i am aware of
13:09 twoelk the old trick with using clientside transparent textures underground has been dealt with iirc
13:10 nephele how exactly is a server supposed to protect against textures?
13:10 rubenwardy it can't
13:10 rubenwardy but the clien't won't allow you to use a transparent texture for stone
13:10 rubenwardy you can then just hange the client
13:10 rubenwardy by recompiling
13:10 nephele Is that hardcoded or something?
13:10 rubenwardy it raises the barrier
13:11 rubenwardy no, it's based on node drawtype
13:11 nephele ah, yeah
13:11 rubenwardy and there may be a node def property like  use_texture_alpha, not sure if it uses that
13:12 nephele would make sense, i have had textures that were opaque without that with the "correct" drawtype
13:13 nephele by the way... is there a way to propagate sunlight in a way that it illuminates solid blocks? I have a see made of ice with a transparent texture, but since there are no air nodes underneat you can basically look one node deep and that's it
13:13 nephele I can make it almost look right if i make the nodes emit light themselves, but that would be awfully presumptious, that the moon is always shining ;)
13:16 Noclip But with a hacked client activating debug mode should still be possible, correct?
13:17 nephele easily, sure
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13:51 lmat https://wiki.minetest.net/Mods/MOB_Framework looks like the best MOB mod for friendly mobiles, right?
13:51 sfan5 mobf is sorta old
13:52 lmat I want sheep. Chicken, Cow, Deepr and several others look great, too. Which mob mod should I go for?
13:52 lmat Creatures MOB-Engine is another option with sheep and chicken.
13:53 lmat Simple Mobs has sheep https://wiki.minetest.net/Mods/Simple_Mobs
13:53 lmat (by the way, Creatuser MOB-Engine is https://wiki.minetest.net/Mods/Creatures_MOB-Engine )
13:54 sfan5 tried mobs_redo?
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13:55 lmat I'll create a wiki account and add this https://wiki.minetest.net/Mods:Mobs#Mobs_Redo_.5B1.49.5D_.5Bmobs.5D to the sheep disambiguation page.
13:56 lmat Oh...maybe I can't.
13:56 rubenwardy ceatures mob engine, mobf, and simple mobs are all unmaintained and very outdated. Don't use them
13:56 lmat mobs redo looks great.
13:57 lmat rubenwardy: I should probably add that to the wiki, too!
13:57 rubenwardy mobs redo is an adopted version of simple mobs, which is actually maintained
13:57 rubenwardy it's terrible, but the best of bad options
13:57 lmat xD
13:58 Astrobe defering entity removal in MobsRedo seems to work so far, thought it takes a variable time for the mob to vanish. I didn't see a simple way to make the mob invisible.
13:58 Astrobe nothing to do with the current talk, btw.
13:58 lmat Oh, coincidence? That seems to happen fairly often on IRC (in general).
14:01 lmat I was going to export this mod from github, download, and extract into the mods directory. Should I just clone it in the mods directory so that I can get updates with a flick of the wrist?
14:03 orbea lmat: i use git subtree to add mods. :P https://www.atlassian.com/git/tutorials/git-subtree
14:04 lmat orbea: Oh, not bad.
14:04 twoelk keep in mind mobs-redo is a mobless api, you will need to download the mobs of desire in an extra step
14:04 lmat Oh wait, I thought you said submodule. reading about subtree...
14:04 lmat twoelk: Thank you, I was just trying to figure out how to get the dependency of mob-animal !
14:06 twoelk you may want to study this wiki page to get an overview https://wiki.minetest.net/Mods:Mobs
14:06 * lmat bookmarks git subtree
14:06 twoelk it might be a little outdated by now though
14:07 lmat got it
14:10 lmat This looks promising https://imgur.com/UHCdKvN.png
14:15 lmat If I walk a long way away, how can I get back to the spawn point without dying?
14:15 twoelk depends on settings :)
14:16 lmat I think I have defaults...mostly :-)
14:16 orbea lmat: sleep in a bed
14:17 lmat orbea: I won't wake up in the bed?
14:17 orbea if you sleep in a bed in game (at night) that will be your new spawn
14:17 twoelk was the chat command /spawn in mtg yet?
14:18 lmat twoelk: /help spawn   says command not available.
14:18 twoelk :(
14:18 lmat orbea: How do I go to that spawn point? Dying will probably get me back, but what else?
14:18 orbea you can also set your spawn with static_spawnpoint in minetest.conf
14:19 orbea use F5 in game to find the coordinates
14:19 twoelk if you are in singleplayer you can turn off damage and hunger
14:22 Astrobe Caution with subtree, that tutorial is from 2015, probably from the era when submodule was not part of Git and had more quirks.
14:23 lmat Astrobe: I'll use git help subtree; to learn anyway :-)
14:31 orbea Astrobe: no, submodule was certainly part of git then (and I dislike submodiules)
14:31 orbea the documentation hasn't had much reason to change for subtree as far as I know
14:32 orbea submodules probably would work too for this purpose, its a matter of personal preference.
14:32 Astrobe What I wanted to point out is that submodule is the most common method.
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14:33 orbea i also think people would notice submodules more readily because form the perspective of the user subtrees look like any other directory.
14:34 orbea but yes, submodules are popular for some reason...
14:35 Astrobe Before the integration of submodules in Git, submodule and subtree had dual pros and cons, from what I remember.
14:41 nephele submodules allow you to specifiy an exact commit of a dependant project, and allow to check that out easily, it's quite nice for that purpose
14:45 orbea nephele: same with subtree, just tested and ths works: git subtree add --prefix mods/technic technic da95be53ec5703e808233d7b45fc42fb500863dd --squash
14:46 orbea can also edit the directory manually later and then push your changes back to upstream from the subtree
14:46 orbea one downside is that rebasing is much harder
14:47 oil_boi_ Can any dev tell me where in the source code the double tap jumping is? Can't seem to find it :L
14:47 oil_boi_ Err, double tap jump to fly, I mean
14:48 nephele orbea: havent looked at subtree, but for the outlined purpose submodules work fine, not that i need them muc
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14:59 orbea rubenwardy: Can you please review this relatively soon whe you have a chance? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/8658 It would be nice if this annoying cosmetic issue in craftguide could be fixed. https://github.com/minetest-mods/craftguide/issues/102
14:59 rubenwardy #8658
14:59 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/8658 -- Add alignment options to FormSpec labels by v-rob
14:59 rubenwardy ah yeah, it already has a single approval
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16:43 adfeno Hi all, using WorldEdit, how do I know the dimensions, area, or radius of a regionthat is saved in a .WE schematic *before* loading/placing it?
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18:14 BuckarooBanzai adfeno: use //allocate
18:16 adfeno The //allocate inserts the schematics in the region, right?
18:17 sfan5 allocate doesn't place any nodes
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18:46 MinetestBot [git] nerzhul -> minetest/minetest: Automated build changes (#9619) 12275e2 https://git.io/Jvp0E (2020-04-09T18:46:06Z)
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19:31 nico52 Hi all, short Q, trying to setup a server for the kids playing minecraft, can they connect their minecraft clients to a minetest server ?
19:32 misspapaya nico52: no
19:32 misspapaya they have to play minetest to use a minetest server
19:32 nico52 @mis
19:33 nico52 misspapaya Thanks
19:33 misspapaya nico52: there's plenty of minecraft server programs you can use to host minecraft
19:33 nico52 yes, just stumbled across minetest as an ubuntu apt-get package, thought it might work
19:34 sfan5 there are some open-source implementation of minecraft servers, minetest isn't one of them
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19:35 Verticen nico52: yeah, minetest is completely different from minecraft, however I think that there is an official Minecraft launcher snap package in the ubuntu repos
19:36 nico52 Thanks all
19:38 substack do i need to do something special to get mobs and rats in the game? i haven't been able to figure out how to get them to spawn
19:39 substack i remember it had these when i played a long time ago on a different computer
19:39 DS-minetest mobs were removed
19:40 sfan5 in roughly 2013 to be exact
19:40 sfan5 hm that doesn't make any sense
19:40 DS-minetest recently
19:40 substack i have the minetest-mod-mobs-redo module installed (from debian bullseye) but it doesn't seem to do anything
19:40 substack including when i enable that module in the ui
19:40 sfan5 the few mods packaged in debian are quite outdated
19:40 sfan5 I can recommend install this mod:
19:41 sfan5 !mod mobs_redo
19:41 MinetestBot sfan5: Mobs Redo [mobs] by TenPlus1 - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=9917 - https://notabug.org/TenPlus1/mobs_redo
19:41 substack thnx
19:41 DS-minetest oh, nice, MinetestBot shows a link to the git repo
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19:49 sfan5 it does if it has that info yes
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20:31 Extex How do I get the position of an offline player?
20:33 sfan5 not possible I believe
20:34 Extex Ah..
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20:45 adfeno Hi there, how to tell the server that all the players (including those which already are online, offline, and those which already have an account) that they should be forced to respawn at a new location?
20:46 adfeno Is there a mod or setting to do that?
20:46 adfeno The respawn should be done as soon as the player joins the server or the admin does the command.
20:53 twoelk sounds like you might want to install the classroom mod
20:59 adfeno !mod classroom
20:59 MinetestBot adfeno: Classroom [classroom] by rubenwardy - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=23715 - https://gitlab.com/rubenwardy/classroom
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21:01 adfeno twoelk: Does it work for offline playesr which are already registered?
21:03 twoelk now that would be something - a mod that forces offline players to the game by a chat command :D
21:04 adfeno Not exactly to be ingame
21:05 adfeno But to set their spawn point for the player when the command is called, so that the next time the player joins he is teleported to the spawn.
21:05 adfeno For all players, I mean.
21:06 twoelk https://gitlab.com/rubenwardy/classroom might be usefull
21:07 rubenwardy note that the mod is WIP. A more stable mod would be edutest, I don't personally like its GUI or design
21:07 rubenwardy !mod edutest
21:07 MinetestBot rubenwardy: EDUtest [edutest] by zeuner - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=18988 - https://github.com/zeuner/edutest-chatcommands
21:08 adfeno I wonder if I could accomplish this instead by manipulating the SQLite table.
21:12 twoelk I would rather not manipulate the database but suggest some "on join" triggered teleporting
21:19 oil_boi_ Extex: If you can get the meta of an offline player you can store their offline position when they leave into their meta using minetest.pos_to_string and inverse to get it is minetest.string_to_pos
21:21 oil_boi_ Also sfan5, I remember yesterday you said doubletap sprint wasn't possible in the engine so I made it possible clientside
21:22 sfan5 ah that's great
21:22 oil_boi_ Also: Bunnyhopping
21:22 twoelk sounds like easter is near
21:23 oil_boi_ Hahaha, maybe I'll make it so on easter the players drop eggs when they bunnyhop
21:24 twoelk should be painted eggs though
21:26 twoelk I always thought games missed movements expressing joy such as skipping
21:28 adfeno twoelk, oil_boi_: OK, thanks for the information, I'll make mod to aid my mate who needs this function.
21:32 twoelk sigh, forum timed out while I was searching for page that might add info - too late anyway
21:34 orbea spent a lot of effort getting mg_villages to not crash and  https://i.imgur.com/falnlYO.png *sigh*
21:42 misspapaya sungazing
21:42 misspapaya B)
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