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Message |
| 00:31 |
MinetestBot |
[git] MoNTE48 -> minetest/minetest_game: Make tool crafting recipes more compact, move to tools.lua f176ba4 https://git.io/JeQSw (2019-12-16T00:29:33Z) |
| 00:45 |
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| 12:25 |
jrmu |
greetings all, Fear, I'm interested in minetest and I saw a debate between v4 and v5 |
| 12:27 |
nephele |
greetings to you |
| 12:27 |
jrmu |
greetings nephele |
| 12:29 |
jrmu |
any you would recommend? |
| 12:35 |
rubenwardy |
jrmu: v5 is the officially supported version, and contains massive improvements over v4 |
| 12:36 |
rubenwardy |
Including better GUI support (ongoing), better moving objects, an inmenu content store |
| 12:36 |
rubenwardy |
There are a lot of stubborn servers still on v4, however |
| 12:36 |
jrmu |
ah |
| 12:36 |
rubenwardy |
You can use both on the same computer |
| 12:37 |
rubenwardy |
V5 is a major new version which breaks network compatibility. Some mod compatibility is broken too, but this is limited |
| 12:37 |
rubenwardy |
Worlds are unaffected |
| 12:38 |
rubenwardy |
Out of 20 things, only 1 of my mods needed to be updated for v5 |
| 12:41 |
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| 13:48 |
Fear |
if v5 is better then why does debian and rest of them use v4? |
| 13:49 |
rubenwardy |
Because Debian doesn't allow updates within a stable release |
| 13:49 |
rubenwardy |
Ubuntu doesn't allow any non-bug fixes within a release |
| 13:50 |
rubenwardy |
Firefox is about the only package that is allowed to release features within a stable release of Ubuntu, Fear |
| 13:50 |
rubenwardy |
Not sure about Debian's policy, but Debian is well known for being stable so is probably similar |
| 13:51 |
Fear |
ah |
| 13:52 |
sfan5 |
that a lot of words to say "the 5.0 series was release so recently that Debian has not picked up on it because it's a stable-focused distribution" |
| 13:52 |
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| 13:52 |
sfan5 |
anyway 5.0 is present in testing and backports https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=minetest&searchon=names&suite=all&section=all |
| 13:52 |
rubenwardy |
Can you opt into packages from testing and backports? |
| 13:53 |
rubenwardy |
Or is it a case of onece you enable it, you get everything |
| 13:53 |
Fear |
I guess you can't run v4 or v5 do both? |
| 13:53 |
Fear |
well, can't you run v5 server and people with v4 and v5 clients can join? |
| 13:53 |
Fear |
or whatever |
| 13:53 |
Fear |
(no mods) |
| 13:53 |
sfan5 |
unforunately not |
| 13:54 |
Fear |
hm |
| 13:54 |
sfan5 |
5.x client can only join 5.x, 0.4 clients can only join 0.4 |
| 13:54 |
rubenwardy |
You can have both clients on the same computer |
| 13:54 |
sfan5 |
rubenwardy: it is possible to pull just one package from a repository you add |
| 13:57 |
Fear |
hm |
| 13:58 |
Fear |
still determining debate on which server to run.. heh oldcoder says to use v4 and .net is the main |
| 13:58 |
Fear |
which one has the most users |
| 13:58 |
Fear |
shrug |
| 13:59 |
rubenwardy |
Oldcoder has been banned from our community for spam, harassment, and general foul behaviour |
| 14:01 |
rubenwardy |
He's sent hundreds of unsolicited spam emails, published confidential information, contacted work and family of people |
| 14:01 |
rubenwardy |
Just fyi |
| 14:01 |
Fear |
ah |
| 14:01 |
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| 14:02 |
Fear |
doxing, getting revenge on people he disagrees with by contacting their employers / families? |
| 14:02 |
Fear |
something like that? |
| 14:03 |
rubenwardy |
Yeah |
| 14:03 |
rubenwardy |
https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=18946 |
| 14:03 |
sfan5 |
Fear: keep in mind when you run v4 upstream won't provide you with support, bug or security fixes and most mod authors won't try to make their stuff work on there either |
| 14:03 |
rubenwardy |
Some context tbere |
| 14:07 |
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| 14:38 |
Fear |
is his code trustable at least? |
| 14:39 |
Fear |
has he ever put in a backdoor / vulnerability or anything? |
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| 14:40 |
sfan5 |
I don't think he's written any code. I wouldn't trust it myself either way. |
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rubenwardy |
Fear: he has said about adding spyware to it before, but it's unlikely to actually contain bad code. It's probably not worth the risk, that are better maintained v4 forms like luk's 0.4.18 |
| 15:18 |
rubenwardy |
V5 contains a lot of features which opens ups more modding possibilities, full xyz rotation for entities, and GUI theming |
| 15:19 |
rubenwardy |
You can have two versions on one computer |
| 15:19 |
rubenwardy |
I have both v4 and v5 |
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| 16:12 |
Abdou31 |
Hello all! |
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| 17:56 |
Exe_Virus |
Hello, I have made a lot of progress on the blender->b3d->minetest model front, and currently I am stuck trying to get animations to export in blender 2.8. Has anyone successfuly exported animated meshes to .b3d from blender 2.8 and gotten them to load in minetest? |
| 18:05 |
Krock |
see character.b3d in minetest_game/mods/player_api/models/ |
| 18:05 |
Krock |
alternatively one of the mobs_redo compatible mods |
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Calinou |
character.b3d was made with Blender 2.7x, if not 2.6x |
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| 18:28 |
MinetestBot |
[git] Df458 -> minetest/minetest: Don't override the FGIMG style property if the image parameter is null b50dc43 https://git.io/Je7qo (2019-12-16T18:26:57Z) |
| 18:28 |
MinetestBot |
[git] Df458 -> minetest/minetest: Remove the dependency on FGIMG/BGIMG from the hovered/pressed variants e42faae https://git.io/Je7qK (2019-12-16T18:26:57Z) |
| 18:28 |
MinetestBot |
[git] Df458 -> minetest/minetest: StyleSpec: 0-initialize the property_set array bd4b8d4 https://git.io/Je7q6 (2019-12-16T18:26:57Z) |
| 18:31 |
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Exe_Virus |
While character.b3d works, it doesn't help me create a new .b3d. Essentially, I'm uncertain if any of my animations are actually being exported, and am looking for someone who has done blender 2.8 animation export with .b3d |
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| 20:26 |
MinetestBot |
[git] sfan5 -> minetest/minetest: Correct documentation around minetest.item_place db7e59f https://git.io/Je7Yi (2019-12-16T20:24:34Z) |
| 20:26 |
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| 20:26 |
gpcf |
hi |
| 20:26 |
gpcf |
I got severe map loading issues |
| 20:26 |
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| 20:26 |
gpcf |
on my server |
| 20:26 |
gpcf |
using postgres |
| 20:27 |
gpcf |
Is there any way to debug it? |
| 20:27 |
gpcf |
such as showing how many blocks are in the emerge queue? |
| 20:28 |
gpcf |
emerging a couple of blocks easily takes two minutes or more |
| 20:30 |
gpcf |
Is a long emergequeue better for loading or a short one |
| 20:30 |
gpcf |
on a system with postgres? |
| 20:33 |
FriendlyPerson01 |
Gpcf I am sorry I can't help you but I am sure someone will sooner or later. In the meantime is someone able to help me understand if modding is the appropriate and effective approach for dealing with play ability situation like how the text of UIs get cut off if they been adjusted for larger text sizes and the chat size is not increasing for instances? |
| 20:34 |
slvr |
How do you make the center UI go away when 3d_mode=sidebyside? |
| 20:34 |
slvr |
There is a left, a right, and an extra un-wanted center window drawn when in a menu or crafting. |
| 20:37 |
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| 20:37 |
FriendlyPerson01 |
Hello there welcome there proller. |
| 20:37 |
sfan5 |
gpcf: does postgres have a slow query log? |
| 20:37 |
sfan5 |
also the server profile might give you some insight |
| 20:37 |
sfan5 |
("might" because I've never tried) |
| 20:38 |
BuckarooBanzai |
gpcf: are you sure its a postgres loading issue? on the server-list you still have a "base" lag of about 400ms... |
| 20:39 |
BuckarooBanzai |
sfan5: gpcf: slow query log: https://www.cybertec-postgresql.com/en/3-ways-to-detect-slow-queries-in-postgresql/ i used something like this before but the db wasn't the problem... |
| 20:39 |
BuckarooBanzai |
it can be used on a "live" system too.. |
| 20:40 |
gpcf |
blocks loaded in RAM are blazingly fast |
| 20:41 |
gpcf |
I set the server to retain blocks for 1 day |
| 20:41 |
gpcf |
that works incredibly well |
| 20:41 |
gpcf |
(server has plenty of RAM to do that) |
| 20:41 |
BuckarooBanzai |
gpcf: oh god, not the "unused_.. something" setting? |
| 20:41 |
Exe_Virus |
what is the default? |
| 20:42 |
sfan5 |
you are thinking of server_unload_unused_data_timeout |
| 20:42 |
gpcf |
I set that to 86400 |
| 20:42 |
BuckarooBanzai |
sfan5: yes, that one: a negative side-effect is a heavy insert traffic on minetest-shutdown, like in the minutes area... :/ |
| 20:43 |
BuckarooBanzai |
but i guess thats not the current problem... |
| 20:44 |
Exe_Virus |
Update on my b3d issues. I have found the exporter works for the chracter.blend file provided by minetest, but have been unable so far to rig mine up towork identically to character.blend |
| 20:44 |
Exe_Virus |
i.e. Someone who knows blender rigging would be able to help. |
| 20:46 |
FriendlyPerson01 |
That's a good update indeed, thanks Exe_Virus for informing who is most likely able to help you. |
| 20:48 |
gpcf |
I have added a second thread |
| 20:48 |
gpcf |
that is better |
| 20:48 |
gpcf |
and raised emergequeue total to 4096 |
| 20:48 |
gpcf |
now the values seem more reasonable |
| 20:48 |
sfan5 |
note that there are some unsolved problems with multiple emerge threads |
| 20:49 |
sfan5 |
also I guess the queue shouldn't get ever get that long |
| 20:49 |
BuckarooBanzai |
single threaded works just fine, fyi |
| 20:50 |
FriendlyPerson01 |
Precisely I am not keen on the multi emerge thread as you mentioned sfan5. |
| 20:55 |
gpcf |
are there any settings to debug the minetest side? |
| 20:55 |
gpcf |
like the length of the emergequeue |
| 20:56 |
sfan5 |
there might be debug output that prints to infostream by default |
| 20:56 |
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| 20:57 |
sfan5 |
so you can either enable verbose logging |
| 20:57 |
sfan5 |
or recompile to make just the logging you want more visible |
| 21:01 |
gpcf |
hmm |
| 21:01 |
gpcf |
I#d like to have some chat commands to display that kind of stats |
| 21:01 |
gpcf |
so they could be used when the server feels laggy to see what has changed |
| 21:02 |
gpcf |
is there any config option that limits RAM usage |
| 21:02 |
gpcf |
? |
| 21:03 |
gpcf |
so you could say ram_limit = 16 G or something like that? |
| 21:06 |
gpcf |
also, some kind of "keep in ram please" flag would be nice for certain nodes, so they do not get unloaded as easily |
| 21:06 |
gpcf |
it would be of great use for advtrains, for instance |
| 21:06 |
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| 21:09 |
Exe_Virus |
further update: It probably has something to do with my Armature bone structure. I wanted top use a single bone, but character.blend uses multiple that are sub-bones of the master. |
| 21:20 |
Calinou |
gpcf: blocks can be force-loaded, but not individual nodes |
| 21:20 |
Calinou |
(a block is a 16×16×16 area) |
| 21:21 |
Calinou |
it will likely increase CPU usage if you have a lot of them, though |
| 21:21 |
Calinou |
gpcf: also, RAM limiting can't be achieved by the program itself but there are system utilities to do it |
| 21:21 |
Calinou |
(I forgot the name on Linux) |
| 21:24 |
gpcf |
I was just thinking for the server to keep the blocks cached, not active |
| 21:24 |
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| 21:41 |
FriendlyPerson01 |
gpcf I believe there a few settings for this like the "tendency" to keep mapblocks cached in RAM so your RAM usage would go up in exchange for quicker access to "likely used" mapblocks. By default I bleieve it's 29 and I believe the higher this number is the higher this "tendency" is. |
| 21:43 |
Calinou |
does PostgreSQL have a way to keep more things in RAM? |
| 21:44 |
FriendlyPerson01 |
Does it even do that? I thought you would need a Redis or similar for partial RAM stored DBs? |
| 21:44 |
sfan5 |
pretty sure every serious database can cache stuff in ram |
| 21:45 |
slvr |
Why would it not already be cached? |
| 21:45 |
FriendlyPerson01 |
I sure it does, but I mean that's like saying you can cut cheese with any serious processor right? I think the reason that Redis exists is because it's meant for that purpose. Just like how knives are more meant to cut your cheese. |
| 21:46 |
slvr |
clearly you've never been disk bound while using redis |
| 21:47 |
FriendlyPerson01 |
Nor had I used it, I just known it's reowned for being flexible in regards to to in RAM DB. |
| 21:47 |
slvr |
It's not. It's just dumb and simple. |
| 21:49 |
FriendlyPerson01 |
I am sorry, I wasn't aware of that being the case. I was just attempting to help with what I read online, I didn't mean to cause any harms. :( |
| 21:49 |
* slvr |
may have overreacted |
| 21:50 |
slvr |
anyway, postgres tuning is a good idea. Check your disk activity and see if it's syncing on every transaction. |
| 21:51 |
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| 21:53 |
slvr |
There is a note here to raise the shared_buffer postgres setting. That might help? https://wiki.minetest.net/Database_backends |
| 21:53 |
Calinou |
yeah, you could look at other articles to optimize PostgreSQL in general |
| 21:54 |
Calinou |
in software, defaults are often tailored to old/low-end machines :) |
| 21:54 |
slvr |
You need to profile the load for general tuning advice to be applicable. |
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| 22:16 |
codic |
If only Minetest had proper shadows.. |
| 22:20 |
slvr |
raytraced minetest would be amazing |
| 22:27 |
ronsor |
and have terrible performance |
| 22:28 |
FriendlyPerson01 |
As far as I tell ronsor, Minetest is on par to Minecraft 1.12.2 graphic wise. I have an APU can hardly maintains 59FPS. |
| 22:28 |
slvr |
It'd probably be ok as long as your view distance is not far. |
| 22:29 |
slvr |
eg, in a cave. |
| 22:29 |
slvr |
speaking of perf, does the software renderer even work? I was getting segmentation faults when trying to use it. |
| 22:30 |
rubenwardy |
you should avoid the software renderer |
| 22:30 |
rubenwardy |
if you have a choice to |
| 22:30 |
rubenwardy |
also try burningsvideo, that sometimes works better |
| 22:30 |
slvr |
I was trying to use it because my buggy nvidia drivers were drawing my charater about 50000 blocks behind where I was standing. |
| 22:44 |
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| 22:44 |
codic |
Well Minecraft does. Minecraft is written in java, and with some basic shaders, it runs alright; Minetest is written in the more performant c++ |
| 22:47 |
ronsor |
burningsvideo works fine |
| 22:48 |
ronsor |
I've used it in a VM without hardware acceleration |
| 22:48 |
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| 22:50 |
FriendlyPerson01 |
forgive me for my lack of knowing what is even burningsvideo? |
| 22:51 |
ronsor |
a software renderer |
| 22:52 |
FriendlyPerson01 |
I see gotcha. |
| 23:00 |
slvr |
I actually tried burningsvideo too with no better results. |
| 23:01 |
slvr |
Maybe my minetest package is old enough that new fixes might help. I have the ubuntu bionic package. |
| 23:02 |
FriendlyPerson01 |
You can go onto the "latest" with the 3rd party PPA that maintained by the official Minetest. If you need help with this I could help you do this. |
| 23:05 |
slvr |
Thanks, I can handle that. I wonder if that would be a good first step before attempting to build it from source. |
| 23:06 |
FriendlyPerson01 |
Seems good and to me it seems it's a reasonable first step. |
| 23:32 |
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| 23:33 |
FriendlyPerson01 |
Hello there welcome both of you. :) |
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| 23:47 |
FriendlyPerson01 |
Hi there, welcome admicos |
| 23:49 |
admicos |
o/ |
| 23:49 |
FriendlyPerson01 |
How you even ragequit on this channel anyways? |
| 23:50 |
admicos |
ragequit? |
| 23:50 |
FriendlyPerson01 |
Yea apparently tpe ragequit this channel. |
| 23:51 |
admicos |
oh, i thought you were replying to me lol |
| 23:52 |
FriendlyPerson01 |
Oh no sorry for confusing thee such wonderful person. I was baffled on how someone even rage quit on a IRC channel like this. |
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| 23:55 |
FriendlyPerson01 |
Hello there welcome MDude |
| 23:55 |
MDude |
Hi |
| 23:56 |
FriendlyPerson01 |
Hello there, how are you? |
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FriendlyPerson01 |
Welcome back puzzlecube. |
