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IRC log for #minetest, 2019-06-08

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:04 Calinou Flatpak isn't designed for server applications, so no
00:04 Calinou (for that purpose, use the Docker container or build a binary from source)
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00:22 skibur So what is the difference from minetest --server and minetestserver  ?
00:25 skibur ah
00:26 skibur nvm, Go it
00:26 skibur Got it*
00:31 skibur Downloading source
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00:42 leo_rockway does anybody know what FSAA is in the context of Irrlicht?
00:42 leo_rockway I'm getting this message when I start minetest and I'm curious as to what it means: Irrlicht: No FSAA available.
00:43 Menche antialiasing
00:43 leo_rockway interesting. Thanks Menche.
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05:38 skibur I think Minetest Docker image is broken.
05:38 skibur Cannot create user directory
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05:49 tpa hello ^.^
05:55 leo_rockway hi
06:02 skibur Interesting...
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06:46 tpa Is this channel still active?
06:46 Krock no, it dieded
06:46 Krock see logs for activity
06:47 tpa There are logs?
06:47 tpa Has the B... girl been on recently? I forget her nick... was really good friends with Vault.
06:47 tpa Bess or Beck or something.
06:48 Krock see /topic
06:48 Krock !seen Beck
06:48 MinetestBot Krock: Sorry, I haven't seen beck around.
06:48 Krock !seen Bess
06:48 MinetestBot Krock: Sorry, I haven't seen bess around.
06:49 tpa Wow thanks! These logs go back to daconcepts :o
06:49 tpa :))
06:49 tpa Were individual channels on daconcepts logged?
06:49 VanessaE no, they weren't.
06:49 tpa Aw. Kk. :(
06:49 tpa Thanks! ^.^
06:49 VanessaE though individual users may have their own private logs.
06:50 tpa Yes, of course. :)
06:50 VanessaE daconcepts was part of Inchra net, so maybe ShadowNinja has logs somewhere
06:50 tpa How has minetest been? I noticed you can't lag-glitch past walls anymore.
06:50 tpa Oh wao.
06:50 VanessaE (my servers are now on freenode)
06:58 tpa Oh was inchranet bigger than just daconcepts. I didn't know. That's cool.
06:59 VanessaE only like, 3 or 4 servers in total
06:59 VanessaE my box was a footnote :P
07:01 Krock tpa: you can still glitch through whatever you want, just requires some lag
07:01 tpa Rip.
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09:25 dyamon hi all, still trying to understand the minetest engine capabilities. Is it possible at all to code a subgame that is less minecraft-y and resembles more something like CubeWorld (https://picroma.com/cubeworld)?
09:30 dyamon I mean, for now I'm more interested in visual features than game mechanics
09:48 Calinou subgames don't have control over shaders or similar, so you wouldn't be able to achieve CubeWorld-like visuals without modifying the engine
09:49 Calinou oh wait, that's a completely different game I had in mind
09:49 Calinou (like, a game with fancy shadows and water reflections… not Terasology, it's some other voxel game)
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09:58 dyamon yeah I suspected that...but is this a direction the engine is taking (i.e., exposing more and more features like shaders and camera controls)? or is this just not the aim of the project?
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10:00 Krock dyamon: Minetest does not require clients to be capable running shaders, so it won't be controllable anytime
10:01 Krock it's however possible to set basic stuff like FOV, camera position and rotation would be a possibility to
10:01 Krock +o
10:01 Krock bbl
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10:35 micheal65536 i'm having a problem with a local server
10:35 micheal65536 minetest doesn't seem to work with a bridge interface
10:35 micheal65536 i run minetest and choose the host server option but when i try to connect with a second client it doesn't connect
10:35 micheal65536 even if i connect to localhost, on the same host
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10:45 micheal65536 i tested it on my laptop which does not have a bridge interface and i get the same issue
10:45 micheal65536 so it's not the bridge interface that causes it
10:46 micheal65536 don't know what it is though, i never had this problem when i used ubuntu but on arch i get it with 0.4.16 and 5.0.0
10:52 micheal65536 netstat/ss shows listening UDP socket on the expected port
10:58 micheal65536 hmm looks like UDP packets don't work on either of my arch systems
10:59 micheal65536 nvm works on my laptop
10:59 micheal65536 ok correction: loopback (localhost) UDP doesn't work
11:00 micheal65536 but that's not all, because minetest doesn't work
11:00 micheal65536 so UDP desktop -> desktop doesn't work
11:00 micheal65536 UDP laptop -> laptop doesn't work
11:01 micheal65536 UDP desktop -> laptop works
11:01 micheal65536 minetest desktop -> laptop doesn't work
11:01 micheal65536 and supertuxkart which also uses UDP works just fine btw
11:03 micheal65536 omg that worked
11:03 micheal65536 ok so it seems that in arch linux "localhost" only works for TCP not UDP???
11:03 micheal65536 if i use the IP address 127.0.0.1 it works
11:03 Krock nice how this problem solved itself
11:04 micheal65536 except it didn't really because why doesn't it work
11:04 Ingar looks more like an issue with your bridge setup
11:04 Ingar mt is unaware of any bridges
11:04 micheal65536 (oh and also minetest desktop -> laptop didn't work because i was dumb and i was still trying to connect to desktop)
11:04 micheal65536 Ingar: no i've ruled out the bridge already
11:05 Ingar s/bridge/network setup/
11:05 micheal65536 seems to be that in arch linux if you type "localhost" into the hostname field for a UDP connection it doesn't work
11:05 Ingar tbh
11:05 micheal65536 this applies to both minetest and netcat
11:05 Ingar I had funky name resolution on arch this week
11:05 Ingar systemctl restart systemd-resolved solved them
11:05 micheal65536 which is super wierd because hostname resolution is separate from connection protocol
11:06 micheal65536 Ingar: ok thanks for letting me know but i did reboot this morning though
11:06 Ingar (but I also had DNS issues on windows, so currently I mostly blame my ISP)
11:06 Ingar micheal65536: it was recurring, reboot didnt matter
11:06 micheal65536 huh, i thought `restart` restarts the service but this happens by implication if the entire system is restarted anyway
11:07 Ingar I mean, I had restarted the service, problem comes back, I have to restart service again
11:07 micheal65536 but it seems to only apply to "localhost" though and TCP is fine
11:07 micheal65536 i'm going to read up see if i can find any mention of this in the arch stuff anywhere
11:07 Ingar firewall issue ?
11:08 micheal65536 hmm i wonder if it's IPv6
11:08 Ingar or that
11:08 micheal65536 wow ok so in my /etc/hosts file i have both `127.0.0.1` and `::1` listed for localhost
11:09 Ingar yes
11:09 Ingar that's normal
11:09 micheal65536 i never really use IPv6 but that's how the arch wiki said to set it up
11:09 micheal65536 but if i take the `::1` line out then suddenly `localhost` works with UDP netcat
11:09 micheal65536 but even with the `::1` line in it still works for TCP but not UDP
11:09 Ingar in essence IPv4 and IPv6 are separate and the application chooses the protocal
11:09 Ingar *protocol
11:09 micheal65536 i know that's why it's so strange
11:10 micheal65536 hostnames and IPv4/6 shouldn't matter whether i'm using TCP or UDP, they're separate layers
11:16 epoch but programs won't do both ipv4 and ipv6 for every udp or tcp connection.
11:17 micheal65536 no it's either IPv4 or IPv6 depending on what kind of address you give it (or what kind of address the hostname resolves to)
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11:20 epoch the tcp or udp handling code in netcat might have different methods of picking which IP version to use.
11:21 epoch which version of netcat is it?
11:21 micheal65536 bsd
11:23 epoch the UDP might be using AF_UNSPEC and TCP might be pushed into AF_INET or AF_INET6
11:24 * epoch still looking at the code
11:24 epoch family defaults to AF_UNSPEC though
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11:29 Daisae I turned off clouds and yet idling at the welcome screen still consumes half a CPU. 'FPS in pause menu' = 1
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13:22 brucemuggins Can someone please help with either controls or something I'm missing. I'm trying to work out how to move trains from advancedtrains down slopes. I keep seeing the safety override come on and I can't work out why?
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14:41 skibur Has anybody successfully setup the official Minetest Docker contianer?
14:41 skibur I've spend hours trying to set it up
14:42 skibur I keep getting can't write to x files. I've made sure volume is mount correctly and the permissions are good to go.  Could there be an issue with the image itself?
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14:54 skibur Where can I find the Mintest Docker Dockerfile?
14:55 skibur I would like to check it out.
14:59 * Krock is here but cannot help
15:12 NathanS21 I've used this docker image, https://github.com/linuxserver/docker-minetest
15:13 NathanS21 It ran just fine, but I couldn't figure out how to specify a world or game, so I was always stuck with Minetest_game which wasn't what I wanted.
15:13 NathanS21 I'm sure it works, I just don't know what I'm doing.
15:15 jluc hello
15:16 jluc birthday party for my son
15:16 jluc with other 10 years olds
15:17 jluc in Elepower Playground server
15:19 jluc they are speaking french !
15:19 VanessaE I have to ask:  why Docker?  what's the point?
15:20 VanessaE (in the context of MT that is)
15:26 jluc in case you join, his nick is Zario
15:26 skibur VanessaE, I have CentOS 7 server and compiling is out of the question and Flatpak version is a Client/Server.
15:26 VanessaE why is compiling out of the question?
15:26 skibur NathanS21, Is that the official one?  Did you have to "docker create -v /....."?
15:27 skibur CentOS 7 has gcc 4.8.5 and Minetest requires 5 and above.
15:27 VanessaE ohh
15:27 NathanS21 I don't know if it's official or not. I used the docker plugin in OpenMediaVault
15:28 VanessaE my servers run on debian, with gcc 6.3.0)
15:31 skibur I get the following when starting minetest Docker: https://pastebin.com/6EA4VVmY
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15:55 tpa !seen araceil32
15:55 MinetestBot tpa: Sorry, I haven't seen araceil32 around.
15:55 tpa !seen Vault
15:55 MinetestBot tpa: vault was last seen at 2016-12-05 20:42:14 UTC on #minetest
15:55 tpa Aw.
16:04 BuckarooBanzai7 skibur: my alternative docker file: https://git.rudin.io/docker/minetest-docker/src/master/Dockerfile i'm using docker-compose on pandorabox to orchestrate my various services: https://github.com/pandorabox-io/pandorabox.io/blob/master/docker-compose.yml it has the benefit that everything is in one place and moving is just copying files :)
16:05 BuckarooBanzai7 skibur: and your error sounds like a permission issue, or non-existant folder...
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16:27 skibur BuckarooBanzai7, Thanks for the input.  I do have the folders in place and permission.  I still feel like it's permissions.  I will take a look at your Dockerfile.  Thanks!
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16:37 skibur BuckarooBanzai7,
16:37 skibur BuckarooBanzai7, What is your docker version?
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16:47 GreenDimond Any thoughts on how I should go about obtaining the filepath for a texture?
16:47 GreenDimond (assuming I know only the texture name, not the mod of origin)
16:49 GreenDimond I just had the thought to loop through all loaded mod dirs and create a map of image files for later use
16:49 GreenDimond If there is a better method, that might be appreciated.
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16:58 paramat !tell dyamon "What if I wanted to scale down the world (in a way that cubes appear smaller)" you can make players twice the size to do this (but light will appear to spread half as far), but you can't make cubes smaller
16:58 MinetestBot paramat: I'll pass that on when dyamon is around
17:09 paramat !tell dyamon yes subgames (we call them games now) can be made that are very different from minecraft. more camera controls are being requested, see engine issues
17:09 MinetestBot paramat: yeah, yeah
17:12 Cornelia ... paramat : I now want to make a game where everyone is, like, a tenth of the size. XD
17:13 GreenDimond I messed around with player sizes on my server with worldedit
17:13 GreenDimond Turned a player into a chicken, shrunk myself to ~1/4 my size and rode them around.
17:13 Krock yee haaw
17:13 Cornelia :p
17:14 GreenDimond At one point shrunk myself to 0.01 of my scale
17:14 GreenDimond That was fun
17:14 Cornelia Neato.
17:14 GreenDimond Also tried being huge, taller than the clouds.
17:14 GreenDimond The limit on camera offset is sometimes annoying ;p
17:14 Krock but then you run into mapblock loading issues
17:14 GreenDimond Yeah
17:14 GreenDimond Being small is way more fun
17:15 GreenDimond especially with tiny collision and low eye height
17:15 GreenDimond Could totally make a game based around that
17:15 GreenDimond mini player living in the walls of a regular NPC house
17:15 GreenDimond Sounds familiar >.>
17:16 Krock call it Soy Tory
17:16 GreenDimond Not what I was aiming for, but close enough ;P
17:17 Cornelia Borrowersssssss
17:17 GreenDimond \o/
17:17 Cornelia \o/
17:18 Cornelia Would either have to make NPCs gigantic or implement support for smaller cubes so you could build internal wall collisions... Can blocks be defined with hollow spaces and ledges for collision?
17:19 skibur BuckarooBanzai7, I got it working
17:19 skibur the Official one
17:19 BuckarooBanzai7 skibur: congrats, but last time i checked there was postgres and spatialindes/areastore missing :(
17:20 skibur In Dockerfile it has ..... USER root  then  USER minetest.  and the home is in docker is /var/lib/minetest  which causes the error.
17:21 skibur I just used USER root to test it out
17:21 skibur and it worked
17:21 BuckarooBanzai7 just fyi: that image wont scale with lots of players/big worldsize (reasons above)
17:22 skibur yes
17:22 skibur understand
17:22 BuckarooBanzai7 nice to see someone else using docker btw :D
17:22 skibur hehe
17:22 skibur Setting up a server for my kids
17:23 skibur We are going to play this summer.
17:23 skibur :)
17:25 Cornelia :)
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20:04 DS-minetest hello
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20:39 tacotexmex Hi pyrollo!
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20:47 DS-minetest should I rather use a pointer to a pointer or a reference to a pointer?
20:54 DS-minetest how to find out in c++ whether an object is of a class that inherits another class?
20:57 leo_rockway has anybody tried to run a server on an RPi? would a 3b+ be powerful enough for a few players?
21:09 p_gimeno DS-minetest: the former is a question of style, the latter you can find with dynamic_cast
21:12 p_gimeno leo_rockway: for just a few players (maybe 3 or 4) it could run half-decently, but RAM can be a bit of a problem, so be careful with the mods you load
21:13 DS-minetest p_gimeno: thanks!
21:18 Krock leo_rockway: Megaf ran/runs a server on their PI 2B
21:18 Krock stable for simple mods and a few players, but nothing heavy
21:19 Krock DS-minetest: I think that pointer pointer might be easier to understand in some cases, rather than mixing the two
21:19 DS-minetest mhm
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22:42 CopenBra[m] guys get a load of this lmao https://www.reddit.com/r/Minetest/comments/by93mz/join_the_community_minetest_discord_discord_server/
22:42 CopenBra[m] > This discord is an alternative to the "Unofficial Minetest", it aims to establish an independence of the Minetest project and establish a fork version that would allow the whole community to participate in its development and not only to a reduced team of individual, refusing any dialogue or modification ... Our goal is to allow Minetest to be closer to an Open Source vision, less sectarian and less closed.
22:42 GreenDimond Isnt it great? x)
22:43 CopenBra[m] it's hilarious
22:43 GreenDimond Someone already made an alt discord, it never took off. This one wont either ;p
22:43 CopenBra[m] i joined the discord just to be sure and it's real
22:45 GreenDimond The Unofficial Discord has almost 500 members, so good luck to anyone making an alt server.
22:45 DS-minetest so, ... is it real?
22:45 GreenDimond > it's real
22:45 GreenDimond As he just said
22:46 DS-minetest oh, i misread, sorry
22:46 GreenDimond Hehe
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22:47 DS-minetest I thought it was "to be sure that it's real"
22:51 CopenBra[m] so what's your favorite servers?
22:51 CopenBra[m] any good servers for making friends?
22:51 Nezrok RedCat
22:52 GreenDimond Thats a good one
22:55 CopenBra[m] Does anyone enjoy playing nodecore?
22:55 CopenBra[m] I think it's a pretty interesting subgame. It's like figuring out puzzles, trying to figure out how to craft things.
22:55 GreenDimond Nodecore is quite nice
22:57 CopenBra[m] I like subgames where you can't just punch a tree trunk and start building tools immediately
22:58 GreenDimond Which is.. not a lot
22:59 CopenBra[m] well there's 3 I know of so far
22:59 Nezrok You don't like having fists of fury? :p
22:59 CopenBra[m] nodecore, voxelgarden, and fliptest
23:00 Nezrok Watch me punch through this tree, this cow, and everything else!
23:00 DS-minetest what about realtest?
23:00 rdococ with minetest euler angles, is a pitch of -90 straight up, or straight down?
23:01 * CopenBra[m] punches through Nezrok
23:01 Nezrok r.i.p me
23:01 GreenDimond pitch is consistent in both types, so wouldnt it be down?
23:02 CopenBra[m] I'm getting an error when I try to join redcat "Protocol version mismatch. Sever supports protocol versions between 24 and 32. We only support protocol verson 37."
23:02 DS-minetest debug mode says positive is up
23:02 CopenBra[m] <DS-minetest "what about realtest?"> I thought realtest was dead
23:02 Nezrok It's still on .4.16
23:02 DS-minetest but I wouldn't trust
23:02 Nezrok Sorry about that :p
23:02 GreenDimond Yeouch
23:03 rdococ GreenDimond: at least using player look, it's straight up
23:03 DS-minetest CopenBra[m]: someone just has to update it, (which means much work)
23:03 rdococ I don't know about lua entity rotations, though. player look seems to be in radians as well, while lua_api.txt says that lua entity rotations are in degrees.
23:03 GreenDimond Yeah I dont like minetest rotations much
23:03 DS-minetest and if this happens, will you call it "undead"?
23:05 CopenBra[m] my goodness, the last commit to the realtest repo was in 2014
23:06 DS-minetest hey, that's even a bit older than the oldest open minetest PR
23:07 paramat F5 only shows straight up view pitch as positive to make it more friendly. actual internal view pitch is the opposite. not sure about entity rotation
23:07 rdococ F5 doesn't show pitch at all for me
23:08 GreenDimond Isnt that a new thing
23:08 GreenDimond like dev build
23:08 paramat "allow the whole community to participate in its development and not only to a reduced team of individual, refusing any dialogue or modification" heh what nonsense
23:08 paramat yes in dev version
23:08 rdococ the dev build I have does show pitch
23:08 GreenDimond We think he did this because there was a discussion questioning his decision of packaging blockcolor as a standalone engine thing
23:09 GreenDimond rather than using the CDB
23:17 leo_rockway p_gimeno: thanks :) I have an unused PI3B+ I might try.
23:18 CopenBra[m] he wants to make a minetest fork that runs on votes and discussions or someting
23:18 GreenDimond saywhatnow
23:18 paramat oh god, democracy
23:19 rdococ oof
23:20 * DS-minetest reading something on the forums thinks about whether there's really something like anti-KISS to make modifying the client more difficult 🤔
23:20 CopenBra[m] he claims a lot of pull requests are refused
23:21 paramat lol yes naturally
23:21 leo_rockway I think having the community run development when they are not writing the code for free in their free time is pretty close to madness.
23:22 Nezrok Isn't the point of having a small group of dedicated people at the core so that the project doesn't lose focus?
23:22 paramat still, i think it's under 50% PRs refused, which is quite good actually
23:23 leo_rockway I'm guessing that if somebody wanted to be part of that group, several good quality PRs would grant them that.
23:23 GreenDimond Are you getting that info from his Discord, CopenBra[m]?
23:26 GreenDimond Also, speaking of Reddit, someone needs to update the description to reflect the new minetest.net description (remove references to Minecraft)
23:27 DS-minetest 31.616% of all minetest PRs are marked as merged
23:27 DS-minetest (of all closed I mean, sorry)
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23:28 DS-minetest (this doesn't mean that the others weren't merged)
23:32 Pie-jacker875 neat my minetest world is causing crashes again
23:33 paramat hm yes it's hard to tell how many are 'refused', but then, many are refused for good reason
23:34 paramat technically, all refused PRs are refused for good reason, as perceived by the core devs
23:35 GreenDimond im sure many are duplicates
23:35 GreenDimond As PRs get outdated
23:35 DS-minetest nah, not so many, most that get outdated are rebased, I guess
23:37 DS-minetest anyway, it's not the number of merged PRs that counts, it's github which counts the PRs, how did you think that a number could count?
23:39 DS-minetest there are many small PRs (eg. some that just fix one line in documentation) which are not hard to accept
23:39 DS-minetest the thing that matters more is, how easy exotic PRs are merged
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