Time  Nick           Message
00:02 trom_          what is special_tiles {}, advanced\optional ?
01:22 kurtzmusch     anyone figured out what is the problem with the forum?
01:22 VanessaE       minetest staff are already on it
01:23 VanessaE       short answer: it's b0rk3d.
01:23 robdrake       did outside vandals bork it?
01:23 VanessaE       no
01:23 robdrake       k
01:39 robdrake       night all
03:04 YuGiOhJCJ      hello, do you also have problem to display this website? https://forum.minetest.net/
03:05 YuGiOhJCJ      I am waiting since several minutes
03:06 YuGiOhJCJ      "Connecting to forum.minetest.net..."
03:06 YuGiOhJCJ      in the status bar
03:06 NathanS21_     Yes, the site is down right now.
03:06 YuGiOhJCJ      oh
03:07 NathanS21_     Has been most of the day.
03:07 NathanS21_     admins know about it, probably working on it.
03:15 YuGiOhJCJ      oh yes, it is written in the topic of this channel "Forums and wikis are down, patience please"
03:15 YuGiOhJCJ      sorry, I had to read that before asking
05:16 oil_boi        Is the forum down
07:10 trom_          what is emerged_area() ?
08:53 ANAND          trom_: Is this what you're referring to? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/e32a630937de69454c741e93979a7889fcddc7a9/doc/lua_api.txt#L3049
08:54 trom_          ANAND: yes, but I still mess with it
08:55 trom_          vm need more pictures )
08:58 ANAND          If you're having issues with the return value, use print(dump(vm:get_emerged_area()))
12:29 robdrake       sorry to bother you all, but I need the names of the wooden shovel, wooden axe, and apple please
12:30 robdrake       *Itemstrings, I think is the term
12:31 rubenwardy     default:shovel_wood  default:pick_wood   default:apple
12:31 ANAND          default:axe_wood, not pick_wood :P
12:32 rubenwardy     oh, read question wrong
12:32 robdrake       thanks to you both
12:32 robdrake       and rubenwardy thank your for your online minetest modding book
12:33 rubenwardy     yw
12:41 ANAND          That book helped me a lot too when I first entered the Minetest modding scene
12:45 robdrake       working on server, then back to relearning lua
12:46 robdrake       then work on Yet Another Hostile Mobs Mod (YAHMM)
12:54 Niwla23        hello
12:56 Niwla23        query %s
12:57 robdrake       typos fixed in the kit mod
12:57 Niwla23        How to reset the window in hexchat?
12:57 robdrake       unfortunately you have to define the kits in init.lua
12:58 robdrake       idk, I may do a pull request and see if I can get them read from a directory
12:58 robdrake       in the future
13:05 Niwla23        when will the forum be back????
13:09 rubenwardy     read the topic
13:09 rubenwardy     "Forums and wikis are down, patience please"
13:10 Niwla23        whats the problem with them? has the hoster server problems?
15:41 robdrake       sorry to bug the channel again, I know defalut:apple is for the fruit, but was is the name of the apple tree sapling? I've tried default:apple_tree_sapling, and default:apple_sapling
15:42 VanessaE       default:sapling I think?
15:42 robdrake       let me see, and thank you
15:42 VanessaE       mtg's apple trees are just "default" trees with altered descriptions.
15:42 VanessaE       (peronally I always thought they were some kind of beech-apple hybrid :P )
15:43 robdrake       yep VanessaE, thank you again
15:43 VanessaE       yw.
15:44 VanessaE       that reminds me, I'll need to add something to moretrees to fix the "default" tree descriptions, as moretrees has real apple trees, with proper size and with blossoms :)
16:21 lllI1I         > did outside vandals bork it?
16:21 lllI1I         who would do such a thing
16:28 robdrake       lllI1I: script kiddies, ie skiddos
16:29 lllI1I         why would they target minetest though
16:29 robdrake       idk
16:29 robdrake       it was just a question of mine, the problems with the forums and wikis weren't caused by script kiddies
16:30 robdrake       internal mistake, I guess
16:30 robdrake       or, hardware failure is another guess
16:31 lllI1I         was expecting like a cabal of mojang's going around killing the comptetition
16:32 lllI1I         especially the good ones like minetest
16:32 lllI1I         glad to know that's not the case (this time)
16:32 VanessaE       but no, it has nothing to do with malicious parties.
16:36 ShadMOrdre     Any news regarding the forums?
16:37 tacotexmex     Though it seemingly has nothing to do with this specific outage, running phpBB in this decade means you’re kind of asking to be hacked. ;P
16:37 sofar          server just failed, nothing malicious
16:37 sofar          people are working to get it back online and restore it
16:38 VanessaE       sofar: well, unless the hosting provider counts as malicious, given the nature of the failure and their failure to anticipate and plan for it :)
16:46 lllI1I         give the site to me I'll host it
16:46 lllI1I         in my basement
16:50 * twoelk       considers extending LAN to his basement
16:51 lllI1I         am in rural america tho so you'd have downtime still
16:51 lllI1I         the plus side being that when the power comes back on I just need to turn it back on
16:51 clavi          sofar: was it on a dedicated hardware box?
16:51 lllI1I         like go down and push button and it's back
17:12 p_gimeno       does anyone know how to solve a circular dependency between farming_redo and stairs?
17:12 p_gimeno       2019-04-30 19:11:09: ERROR[Main]: mod "farming" has unsatisfied dependencies:  "stairs"
17:12 p_gimeno       2019-04-30 19:11:09: ERROR[Main]: mod "stairs" has unsatisfied dependencies:  "farming"
17:13 rubenwardy     update both
17:13 rubenwardy     make sure you're using the correct repo for farming redo
17:15 p_gimeno       thanks, looking
17:20 tacotexmex     VanessaE: Are there any plans to migrate forum eventually? I’m thinking that the window is closing for the possibility of exporting data from phpBB into other newer software as phpBB is sunsetting.
17:21 Fairion        what would we migrate to?
17:21 clavi          please not discourse
17:22 clavi          anything but this bloated whitespace wasteland
17:22 VanessaE       the forum is broken right now, as to where and what it'll be migrated to, if anything new, idk.
17:23 Fairion        I would be happy to work on setting up new forums
17:23 Fairion        spectrum?
17:24 Fairion        flarum? https://vanillaforums.com/en/software/?
17:24 clavi          for the love of god something that works without 10 different javascripts
17:25 sofar          not the right time to make a decision (no problem discussing it, though)
17:25 Fairion        Sofar: What format would be better?
17:26 p_gimeno       MyBB FTW
17:26 clavi          tacotexmex: where did you read that phpBB is "sunsetting"?
17:27 sofar          Fairion: I'm just saying that with the forums down, the priority is bringing them back up first
17:27 clavi          agreed
17:27 Fairion        oh. true.
17:27 sofar          migrating to another forum software is not something anyone is going to sink time into :)
17:27 sofar          however, it's entirely OK to come up with a plan for the future that the community supports :)
17:28 nimbius        minetest server is down
17:28 nimbius        again
17:28 sofar          especially if people can come up with a migration plan from phpbb to $future_forum_software
17:28 nimbius        is there a regular status update mailing list or something i can subscribe to?
17:28 sofar          nimbius: first, read irc logs, then decide whether repeating is useful :)
17:28 nimbius        sofar: thank you
17:28 nimbius        but ive no log of the channel im not in :(
17:29 sofar          read /topic
17:29 clavi          phpBB is actively developed fwiw https://github.com/phpbb/phpbb/graphs/commit-activity
17:29 sofar          read it .. slowly
17:29 nimbius        sofar: sorry.  its bonkers frustrating trying to play this game without a wiki :(
17:29 Fairion        it wouldn't hurt to have a nicer looking forum, though
17:30 nimbius        Im sure good work is being done.
17:30 nimbius        is the wiki present on github? can i host it?
17:30 clavi          I'm sure you can style phpBB too
17:31 Fairion        you can. I don't know why we don't, but I can't seem to get phpbb working on my machine.
17:31 Fairion        So, I can't test it
17:31 clavi          probably because devs care more about code than how the forum looks
17:31 clavi          but sure, it could be improved
17:32 Fairion        rubenwardy: There was some talk on discord a while ago about re-styling the forums. Does that still stand?
17:33 rubenwardy     I'm not able to make such a change
17:33 rubenwardy     and the only person who can is currently busy getting it back online
17:33 Fairion        oh. okay.
17:33 clavi          https://www.phpbb.com/styles/
17:35 clavi          maybe another thing to think about in the future is reducing MT's bus factor
17:35 clavi          (how many people can get hit by a bus before the project fails)
17:35 p_gimeno       MyBB can import phpBB FWIW. And phpBB really really sucks.
17:36 rubenwardy     clavi: increasing it, hopefully
17:36 clavi          well, of course :D
17:36 Fairion        sucks how so?
17:37 p_gimeno       phpBB session handling kicks you out without a reason, it clobbers URLs with session keys, it does not allow ignoring threads, it doesn't allow (last time I checked) to configure custom BBcode to have more effects... it's just way, way out of date, and being actively developed does not solve that
17:38 Fairion        true
17:38 Fairion        it wouldn't hurt to migrate
17:38 p_gimeno       I've administered MyBB and it's a breeze
17:39 rubenwardy     what about simple machiens?
17:39 p_gimeno       it perhaps may err on the side of having too many configuration options
17:42 Fairion        my issue with the current setup is that it looks very tacky. It makes minetest seem like a side-project and not a legit game.
17:42 Fairion        imho
17:45 VanessaE       well we could always go back to punbb ;)
17:45 * VanessaE     hides
17:46 Fairion        I wasn't there back then...
17:46 VanessaE       it... was a strange time in minetest :P
17:46 VanessaE       I forget now why we moved to phpbb
17:47 clavi          maybe cause it's abandonware?
17:49 VanessaE       maybe.
17:50 p_gimeno       VanessaE: what's the current pipeworks repo? is it gitlab/VanessaE or github/minetest-mods? (sorry can't look it up in the forum)
17:50 VanessaE       gitlab.
17:50 Fairion        I feel like minetest development is so diplomatic that things move very slowly...
17:51 kurtzmusch     why are we considering moving? i dont really understand how something spontaneously breaks like this ...
17:51 VanessaE       p_gimeno: https://gitlab.com/VanessaE/pipeworks
17:52 VanessaE       kurtzmusch: well no one of authority said anything about migrating, but given the nature of the failure, .. eh, who knows what'll happen
17:53 Fairion        what's the best way to help with minetest-game?
17:53 VanessaE       fork and make PRs :)
17:53 Fairion        There are so many just sitting there- how do I know it'll even be merged?
17:54 Fairion        19
17:54 kurtzmusch     the best way is to create your own game from scratch lel
17:55 p_gimeno       VanessaE: thanks, it turns out pipeworks needs a dependency on screwdriver, it crashed on me when it wasn't available
17:55 clavi          there was a forum post that said you can help by testing the PRs yourself and giving feedback
17:55 kurtzmusch     there is no single vision of what mtg should be so theres not even a realable way to tell what whings will be merged
17:55 p_gimeno       VanessaE: I could submit a PR but right now I'm in the middle of configuring a server, could you?
17:55 tacotexmex     What kurtzmusch said
17:56 kurtzmusch     my spelling is deteriorating
17:56 Fairion        hmm. that's not good for development ;)
17:57 VanessaE       p_gimeno: you mean pipeworks needs the screwdriver in the depends.txt then?
17:57 p_gimeno       VanessaE: https://gitlab.com/VanessaE/pipeworks/blob/master/devices.lua#L167
17:57 p_gimeno       yes
17:57 VanessaE       sure.
17:57 p_gimeno       thanks!
18:00 VanessaE       done.
18:02 p_gimeno       thanks. Also homedecor/itemframes calls the global, so I guess it should be listed as optional dependency.
18:02 p_gimeno       (sorry, I'm still going through the logs and finding stuff as I go)
18:03 VanessaE       I'll fiddle with that one later.
18:04 p_gimeno       ok, that was all. And thanks.
18:24 p_gimeno       how do you set creative mode for a world without the UI?
18:24 p_gimeno       ah I think I see the answer, sorry. It's a setting in world.mt
18:55 nimbius        is there a root-cause for the outage?
18:56 clavi          yes
18:56 nimbius        what was it?
18:56 clavi          there is a cause for everything in life
18:56 clavi          "server failure"
18:56 nimbius        the site is hosted on pages, or so i thought?
18:57 clavi          no
18:57 nimbius        https://github.com/minetest/minetest.github.io
18:58 p_gimeno       VanessaE: the hotbar mod has a couple of bugs, where should I send them? to dreambuilder, or is there an upstream somewhere?
18:58 VanessaE       what bugs?
18:58 VanessaE       https://gitlab.com/VanessaE/dreambuilder_hotbar
18:59 VanessaE       (note the mod name changed today)
18:59 p_gimeno       let me check the current version first to see if they're fixed... basically e.g. /hotbar 20 crashes
18:59 VanessaE       I fixed that bug already.
18:59 clavi          oh, so it is
19:00 clavi          looks like just the site code is on github
19:00 clavi          not actually hosted by github pages
19:00 p_gimeno       ah yes, it's fixed, thanks. The other problem is already fixed, namely a global that should be local.
19:00 rubenwardy     nimbius: the main site is hosted on GitHub pages which is why it's still available
19:01 VanessaE       in other news: I've done a round of updates of my mods on contentdb, including publishing Dreambuilder there finally :)
19:01 rubenwardy     The outage is because the VPS service provider had a technical fault which corrupted the system
19:01 clavi          I see
19:22 nimbius        rubenwardy: thank you for the clarification.
19:23 nimbius        will the content be made available for mirroring in the future?
19:23 nimbius        maybe a magnet link or something with the essentials would be nice
19:24 rubenwardy     we have weekly backups
19:27 clavi          that's good to hear
19:39 tacotexmex     clavi: What forum software built with a modern stack doesn’t use JS? Do you know of one?
19:40 clavi          no, but I don't place too much value on what is considered "modern" at the moment
19:41 clavi          I'm not against JS entirely, just against overuse of it
19:41 clavi          like a site staying blank if you don't allow 3rd party JS
19:45 Calinou        it's possible to have a fully-functional JS-based UI with only first-party resources
19:45 Calinou        in fact, it's becoming the recommended approach in many cases
19:45 Calinou        (if you don't pay for bandwidth, especially :P)
19:45 sfan5          the question is whether the site should work without js
19:46 est31          discourse is js based
19:46 est31          I had the "pleasure" of using it
19:46 est31          you can't even ctrl-f through a topic
19:47 est31          the creators had the bright idea of redirecting you to their built in search
19:47 est31          which of COURSE does not allow searching inside posts
19:47 VanessaE       a wild est31 appears! :)
19:47 clavi          yes, that's what these kinds of sites like to do
19:47 est31          hello VanessaE
19:47 clavi          hijacking your scroll function and adding a "better" scrolling "experience" is also a classic
19:49 est31          yes, another thing that discourse is doing
19:50 est31          they say it's modern but for me it's just broken in so many ways
19:50 clavi          "modern" sites also often have a "modern" design with means everything is white or at most a very faint shade of pastel
19:50 clavi          no visual separation between elements
19:51 clavi          https://i.imgur.com/bZuyzQj.png
19:51 clavi          it's hard to tell where one post ends and the next one begins
19:51 clavi          they're separated by frickin 1px wide light-grey lines
19:58 kurtzmusch     imo js is only usefull for loading parts of a page async in response to something, everything else is bloat and css got covered. infinite scrolling is trash
19:59 clavi          oh man infinite scrolling
19:59 clavi          >don't know where on the page you are
19:59 clavi          >don't know how many items there are left
19:59 clavi          yes I love it /s
19:59 kurtzmusch     thats the most obscure, backwards design ever and it pops out everywhere
20:01 rubenwardy     I really don't like infinite scrolling for stuff like that, it doesn't work
20:01 rubenwardy     forums need deterministic paging
20:01 rubenwardy     it's not a social media feed
20:01 clavi          agreed
20:01 clavi          it works for a twitter/mastodon feed
20:02 rubenwardy     yeah
20:02 rubenwardy     <3 mastodon
20:02 rubenwardy     https://fosstodon.org/@rubenwardy   and   https://fosstodon.org/@Minetest    btw
20:03 tacotexmex     Regarding possible forum software migration I’m not looking to start flamewars, stir up controversy or similar. I just notice that with a piece of software as old as phpBB comes as old problems (the weekly viagra phishing posts, the post once - subscribe forever feature, the absent mobile support, the ancient UX patterns). Knowing these common problems as a former phpBB admin myself (migrated 8 years ago), I know that
20:03 tacotexmex     the moderation can be much less daunting and user experience much improved with more recent software. The goal here is to aid MT staff in reducing workload and to increase community participation, nothing else.
20:03 rubenwardy     some JS is good
20:03 sfan5          i'm sure upgrading to a newer phpbb version would already help
20:03 rubenwardy     ContentDB uses some JS
20:03 rubenwardy     that too
20:03 rubenwardy     and themes make a load of difference
20:04 rubenwardy     just disabling that annoying message page would be good
20:04 tacotexmex     sfan5: Why? It’s still built with principles and conventions from 15 yrs ago.
20:05 sfan5          maybe they fixed some annoyances in a newer version, who knows
20:06 tacotexmex     Even if they wanted to, they got their own (huge) technical debt against them.
20:08 Niwla23        https://web.archive.org/web/20190321143231/https://forum.minetest.net/
20:10 clavi          rubenwardy: thanks, didn't know MT had a fediverse presence
20:10 tacotexmex     And it’s more than a few annoyances imo, it’s equally the issue that web applications has gone through at least a few paradigms since phpBBs haydays. Users expect excellent, contemporary UX.
20:11 Stormwynd      Celeron55 said "I hate phpBB, I hope you do too. It's a ridiculous clusterfuck hallmark of everything that is wrong in the PHP culture." - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=12611&sid=3a3380825577626a7e94b2a6172f63d3
20:12 rubenwardy     lool
20:12 rubenwardy     nice forum link
20:12 Niwla23        lol, good to give a FORUM link if everythings down
20:13 Niwla23        https://web.archive.org/web/20170704105527/https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=12611&sid=47de31b595687d4f021b3ea78bd125e9
20:13 Niwla23        this link works
20:13 Niwla23        why are we using phpBB then?
20:13 tacotexmex     Stormwynd: Well, he said it best. ^_^
20:13 Stormwynd      Ha, I copied it from @Niwala23's webarchive link but it converted it to a non-webarchive link
20:14 clavi          are other php-based boards better?
20:14 clavi          I never ran a forum so I have no idea about their technical merits
20:15 Niwla23        but the archive is just a static copy of the forum also search function does not work :(
20:15 Niwla23        phpBB takes 2 minutes to install for a noob like me if you have phpmyadmin
20:15 clavi          the only thing I notice is that php boards "just work" while js things annoy me
20:16 Niwla23        whats about nodejs?
20:16 Niwla23        i really like contentdb
20:16 rubenwardy     ContentDB is Python/Flask
20:16 Niwla23        oh, ok
20:16 Niwla23        https://content.minetest.net/threads/43/
20:17 Niwla23        this looks nice
20:17 tacotexmex     clavi: what about non-php boards don’t ”just work” for you?
20:18 Niwla23        a good forum software should be also mobile-first
20:18 rubenwardy     PHP things tend to depend on one kind of setup
20:18 rubenwardy     MySQL / Apache / etc
20:18 clavi          tacotexmex: they try to be too smart which makes them get in the way more often than not
20:18 rubenwardy     whereas JS stuff may support differing databases and use better practices like migrations
20:18 clavi          see above for e.g. infinite scrolling
20:18 clavi          also JS boards and bad "modern" design seem to be inseparably linked
20:18 rubenwardy     I guarantee that deploying Symphony would be worse than NodeJS apps
20:19 rubenwardy     probably
20:19 tacotexmex     ¯_(ツ)_/¯
20:19 rubenwardy     you dropped this: \
20:19 Niwla23        https://www.woltlab.com/?l=2
20:20 Niwla23        is there something like this in open source?
20:20 tacotexmex     rubenwardy: thnx! \
20:23 Niwla23        https://tellform.com/
20:23 Niwla23        what do you think of this
20:24 tacotexmex     In the end, if a language or a software design convention is abandoned by the broader community that supports it, it will only be a matter of time until that project is on life support. So running a community forum for years takes some pragmatism. For instance, I may not even like Discourse, but since I know its business model (it’s still open source at the same time), the great and large community around it and its
20:24 tacotexmex     merits of stability and support, I’d bet on Discourse any day before putting my fate in the hands of one or two happy core developers with sparetime resources.
20:27 clavi          Niwla23: this must be some joke https://i.imgur.com/MuuHHwS.png
20:27 lllI1I         where is the lua API available not on the wiki
20:28 clavi          it's like they designed it to be hard to read on purpose
20:29 rubenwardy     lllI1I: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt
20:29 rubenwardy     the reference
20:29 rubenwardy     or  https://minetest.gitlab.io/minetest/
20:29 rubenwardy     (this is official ^)
20:30 lllI1I         rubenwardy: big thanks
20:33 Niwla23        oh, foun it on alternatives page, thought it was the login lol
20:35 Niwla23        clavi
20:35 clavi          yes
20:36 Niwla23        just wanted to ping you for my above message
20:36 clavi          somebody must've confused form with forum
20:37 Niwla23        like me xd
20:37 clavi          oh :D
20:40 BuckarooBanzai night all, good luck with the wiki/forum restore :D
20:41 lllI1I         is time_from_last_punch only available in entities' on_punch functions or do nodes have a way to get that too
20:43 lllI1I         I've resorted to storing a timestamp in the metadata under "modname:last_hit_by" .. playername
20:43 tacotexmex     lllI1I: entity only, iirc. You have to add such feature to node defs yourself.
20:43 lllI1I         hoping there's an easier way
20:44 tacotexmex     Your solution isn’t bad imo
20:44 lllI1I         so long as I mark it private so it's not updated constantly sending network packets
20:45 Fairion        niwla: what about vanillaforums or mybb
20:46 tacotexmex     lllI1I: Ah, there’s that. How is it marked private?
20:47 lllI1I         meta:mark_as_private("modname:last_hit_by_" .. playername)
20:48 lllI1I         which is better I wonder, private or public by default
20:48 tacotexmex     Cool. I’m very unfamiliar with meta attributes.
20:49 clavi          Fairion: vanillaforums looks similar to discourse
20:49 clavi          I'm comparing some myself right now
20:49 Fairion        and therefore...
20:49 Fairion        I've been offline btw. I read up on irc.minetest.net
20:50 clavi          vanillaforums has pagination at least
20:53 tacotexmex     Fairion: MyBB is as old as phpBB +2 yrs. Vanilla seems healthier but is more of a B2B product nowadays.
20:53 clavi          yeah they advertise the paid version heavily on their site
20:53 lllI1I         I read that as beer-to-beer
20:54 lllI1I         I'm not familiar with that acronym
20:54 Fairion        business to business
20:54 Fairion        according to google :)
20:54 tacotexmex     clavi: Vanilla has little to do with Discourse imo. UX patterns differ quite alot.
20:55 Fairion        what's wrong with discourse again (not to start an argument)
20:55 clavi          - no pagination
20:55 Fairion        oh
20:55 clavi          - hard to navigate
20:55 clavi          - hijacks browser functions
20:56 tacotexmex     … and it’s still 13 yrs old.
20:56 clavi          discourse?
20:56 Fairion        so? wine gets better with age, my friend
20:56 Fairion        ;)
20:57 tacotexmex     If only :D
20:57 lllI1I         how old is WINE again
20:57 tacotexmex     It’s like 25? Good piece of software.
20:57 Fairion        oh, not that type of wine lol. Alcoholic wine
20:58 tacotexmex     Ancient
20:59 tacotexmex     clavi: Have you tried nodeBB? It’s snappy as hell.
20:59 Fairion        so, vanilla seems okay. The theme could be better but whatever.
21:03 clavi          tacotexmex: it is fast, but the design is awful
21:04 tacotexmex     If phpBB (2000) was generation 1 in forum software (it’s not, but let’s pretend), Vanilla (2006) was generation 2. For reference, iPhone was released in 2008 iirc. That means past generations wasn’t even built with mobile in mind as a core principle. Discourse and NodeBB is generation 3 but Discourse will survive much longer.
21:05 tacotexmex     clavi: By design, do you really mean looks?
21:05 clavi          no
21:05 Ruslan1        Anyone know what happened to Minetest forum
21:06 est31          tacotexmex: I think mobile as core principle is the problem
21:06 est31          it's putting mobile above desktop
21:06 est31          and has tons of broken functionality
21:07 est31          like hijacked browser functions
21:07 est31          why do browsers allow web sites to hijack ctrl f anyway
21:07 tacotexmex     est31: NodeBB, Discourse, what?
21:07 est31          Discourse
21:07 Ruslan1        Anyone know what happened to Minetest forum
21:07 Ruslan1        ?
21:07 est31          Ruslan1: they are down no idea why tho
21:08 tacotexmex     That’s one feature, which can be turned off.
21:08 Ruslan1        Rip
21:08 est31          tacotexmex: tell me how
21:08 clavi          tacotexmex: bethesda's version of nodeBB looks okay but it still suffers from being JS-based https://bethesda.net/community/
21:09 clavi          e.g. the site changes as you scroll through it
21:09 tacotexmex     est31: I’ll look into it when I’m not on mobile. Mobile which btw surpassed desktop traffic worldwide last year.
21:09 est31          sure, more people are on mobile than on desktop
21:10 est31          still, desktop gives you a better experience
21:10 est31          if I just compare the crappy keyboard that my phone has with any computer keyboard
21:10 clavi          some statistics from MT forums would be interesting
21:10 clavi          mobile vs. desktop
21:12 tacotexmex     ”still, desktop gives you a better experience” Well yes, that will always be true with phpBB. ;)
21:12 est31          it's true with most software
21:12 Fairion        ^^
21:12 est31          except for software that makes the desktop suck as much as mobile
21:12 Fairion        nvm
21:13 Fairion        some software is really well built on mobile
21:13 est31          and that isn't bad
21:13 est31          but often "well built on mobile" means "sucks on desktop"
21:13 tacotexmex     That’s one opinion.
21:13 est31          which discourse does
21:13 Fairion        cmon, it's not that bad
21:13 est31          I loathe it every time I have to use it sorry
21:14 est31          phpbb is much better
21:14 est31          again, so many features failing to work
21:14 Fairion        I wish I could use markdown, though
21:14 est31          I have a fast internet connection
21:14 est31          I have a fast computer
21:14 tacotexmex     Desktop Discourse is pretty desktop-y imo, not like horrible Material Design based stuff.
21:14 est31          I can just downloadthe entire thread
21:14 est31          nooo discourse makes me scroll through manually
21:15 Fairion        oh, I can hear that as an issue
21:15 Fairion        nobody has said anything bad about vanilla.
21:15 lllI1I         we should make our own forum software
21:15 lllI1I         in minetest
21:15 Fairion        good luck
21:15 clavi          embed the forums in MT client
21:16 lllI1I         use formspecs for everything
21:16 clavi          someone got chromium to work inside it so why not :3
21:16 Fairion        nightmare
21:16 lllI1I         that's impressive
21:16 tacotexmex     On the other hand, MT is a global community with people on quite sucky uplinks. Discourse app downloads to your browser once, then fetches only pure data.
21:18 tacotexmex     est31: what are those failing features?
21:18 Fairion        Personally, I think the theme is the biggest issue at hand. And the easiest to fix.
21:19 est31          and phpbb doesnt do all of that it just sends data in the first place
21:20 tacotexmex     The theme is the least of an issue, it’s quite ok. A theme change doesn’t fix Viagra spam or lifetime thread subscriptions.
21:20 Calinou        rubenwardy: I can't see how deploying a Symfony app would be worse than Node.js
21:20 Fairion        a core dev has been spotted!
21:21 clavi          couldn't the spam be easily fixed by adding a (self-hosted!) captcha on registration?
21:21 tacotexmex     est31: phpBB doesn’t cache itself as an application in your browser, it needs to send the whole page each load.
21:22 est31          and the whole page is not a big fat app
21:22 est31          I dont get how you sell that as an advantage of discourse
21:22 est31          it's in fact a big disadvantage
21:22 tacotexmex     Sure, yeah.
21:22 est31          forum software doesn't need to be an "app". It can just be html made on the server side sent to clients
21:23 est31          it's not live chat
21:23 tacotexmex     I agree, it doesn’t have to.
21:25 tacotexmex     In the case of the MT forum bandwidth can’t be that big of an issue either.
21:25 est31          and every get request to discourse actually DOES send the entire page to clients
21:25 est31          it's not a single page application
21:25 est31          so it is doing strictly more than phpbb
21:26 tacotexmex     Higher bandwidth then phpBB then?
21:26 est31          probably yeah
21:26 est31          but I'm too tired now to do a fine grained comparison
21:26 est31          gotta go to bed
21:26 Fairion        Calinou: Can we change the phpBB theme to something more modern once the forums are back? I can't see why it would hurt, and it would look more legit. Additionally, I don't believe that it is too difficult.
21:27 Calinou        I don't have control over it, also, there aren't a whole lot of good/modern and free phpBB themes out there
21:27 Calinou        the closest I know is http://comboot.io/
21:27 Fairion        I found one, hold on
21:28 Fairion        https://www.phpbb.com/customise/db/style/digi/demo/3.2#
21:28 clavi          maybe updating phpbb also helps if the new version is supposedly  more responsive as someone said
21:28 clavi          Fairion: modern site design that doesn't require JS for the navbar?
21:29 clavi          what is this sorcery
21:29 clavi          :)
21:29 tacotexmex     est31: ”Discourse is essentially a SPA (see http://try.discourse.org/) and designed to be public-facing. It does a good job at providing a very bare, lightweight interface for people with JavaScript disabled and, I'm assuming, for web crawlers.”
21:29 Fairion        oh, comboot is so relieving
21:29 Fairion        I think I'm in love
21:30 rubenwardy     My experience of symphony was pretty painful
21:30 tacotexmex     <est31 "probably yeah"> est31: Alright, g’night!
21:30 Fairion        "I don't have control over it" who does?
21:30 Calinou        rubenwardy: version 4 is pretty alright in my experience
21:31 Calinou        Fairion: that's not "modern" in my book :P
21:31 Calinou        it spans the whole display, which means it's way too wide on large monitors like mine
21:31 Calinou        (2560×1440)
21:31 Fairion        it's better than what we have now...
21:31 Calinou        the current forum.minetest.net theme does it better
21:31 Calinou        it limits itself to a reasonable width
21:32 tacotexmex     Agreed. Also, you can’t make a donkey into a horse.
21:32 Fairion        The current theme looks outdated to me
21:33 Fairion        I agree that digi isn't good. Comboot is better. the current theme is better than comboot?
21:33 tacotexmex     It’s the platform that’s outdated. Believe me, I’ve had my fair share of trying to refresh a phpBB instance, it’s like putting makeup on a pig.
21:35 Fairion        tacotexmex: One issue at a time
21:37 lllI1I         I haven't used the forums much but the theme was okay in my IMO from what I can remember
21:38 tacotexmex     In this case, no, why bother. C55 already hate phpBB so why pester him with a request that would only confuse users while not bringing any new or improved actual forum features.
21:39 Fairion        oh. look is my main concern. changing the software would fix that, I think. If he's convinced, why not just do it?
21:39 Fairion        "forum.minetest.net	celeron55	Theme	Contact a moderator for concerns about content (Use "report this post" if possible)"
21:39 Fairion        (from minetest.net/get_involved)
21:43 tacotexmex     Structure, design patterns and extensibility are mine. :)
21:43 Fairion        I gtg
22:21 Wuzzy          minetest.net is dead :(
22:23 twoelk         allready for more than a day it seems
22:23 Calinou        the website seems to load here
22:24 Warmute        nope not in here, hmm
22:26 rubenwardy     Wuzzy: the VPS service provider had a technical fault which corrupted the system
22:26 Wuzzy          omg
22:26 rubenwardy     the main website is still online because it's on Github pages
22:26 rubenwardy     the server list and CDB are still online because they're hosted be sfan and me
22:27 Wuzzy          nope. can't connect to minetest.net
22:27 rubenwardy     there are backups
22:27 rubenwardy     minetest.net loads here, probably a DNS issue
22:27 rubenwardy     make sure you use www.minetest.net
22:27 Wuzzy          -_- lol ok haha
22:27 Wuzzy          yeah the www. works
22:28 rubenwardy     c55 is in the process of setting up the machine again, should be online again within a few days
22:28 Warmute        protocol version mismatch. server supports protocol versions between 24 and 35 we only support version 37
22:28 Warmute        ?
22:29 rubenwardy     Warmute: server is out of date
22:29 Warmute        surprise
22:29 rubenwardy     you can install a 0.4.x client alongside your 5.0 client
22:29 Warmute        that kid was never the brightest bulb in the box
22:29 rubenwardy     or pester the server to update
22:29 Warmute        nah it's all g
22:30 Ruslan1        Hi rubenwardy
22:30 rubenwardy     hey Ruslan1
22:31 Ruslan1        Do you know what happened to Minetest forum
22:31 rubenwardy     Ruslan1: read the chat
22:31 rubenwardy     I said it 3 minutes ago
22:32 Ruslan1        Will Minetest forum come back
22:33 rubenwardy     yes
22:44 lllI1I         does sound_play have to be called once for each player to which the sound is meant to be played or will a table do
22:45 lllI1I         e.g. a team alert
22:53 sofar          the spec is complete
22:54 sofar          you can play in a location, or to a specific player in a location, or to all players (I think)
22:54 sofar          you can't play sounds to 3 players in one call
22:54 sofar          you'd have to call it 3x
23:12 lllI1I         thanks I figured
23:23 makayabou
23:26 robdrake       anyone know what layer More Ores, I think, zinc can be found, or a website with the answer?
23:26 makayabou      Please tell me if I understood well: I want to change all nodes in an area of the map to is_ground_content = true. It is better not use VoxelManip as 1/ because I have to call minetest.swap_node on each node i won't gain speed with VoxelManip , 2/ I will modify not only the nodes inside my area, but also nodes around area but inside VoxelManip . Right ?
23:28 makayabou      robdrake: you mean at what depth you can find zinc?
23:28 robdrake       yes please
23:28 robdrake       checking the more ores github  repository
23:29 makayabou      yes
23:29 robdrake       no luck
23:31 makayabou      im looking into it too
23:32 robdrake       my players are also asking me
23:34 makayabou      https://github.com/minetest-mods/moreores/blob/master/_config.txt
23:34 makayabou      not all the answer though
23:35 makayabou      zinc is not in moreores but in technic
23:35 robdrake       oh technic
23:35 makayabou      !mod technic
23:35 MinetestBot    makayabou: Technic [technic] by RealBadAngel - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=2538
23:36 makayabou      https://github.com/minetest-mods/technic
23:37 makayabou      in oregen.lua, l.21 & l.81
23:37 makayabou      /technic_worldgen/oregen.lua
23:40 robdrake       I looked at technic/manual.md
23:40 robdrake       thank you for the technic hint
23:40 makayabou      you're welcome