| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:20 |
Xiong |
I'm confused about textures. Technic has two folders containing (example) technic_water_can.png and one is 16px square, the other 32. But ingame, I don't seem to see any node rendered with higher resolution. |
| 00:21 |
Xiong |
The more baffling part is that both folders contain 16 and 32 images, several of each. |
| 00:21 |
Xiong |
Can anyone illuminate this for my feeble eyes? |
| 00:23 |
GreenDimond |
When Minetest searches for textures it will go to the textures folder first, and then expand its search from there if it cant find the desired file. So technic nodes will default to whatever it can find in the textures folder. |
| 00:23 |
GreenDimond |
There are existing 32x textures in the normal folder because they are the only textures that exist |
| 00:24 |
GreenDimond |
the rest of the 32x are optional and meant to replace the ones in the main folder should someone want to use them |
| 00:27 |
Xiong |
In what way can I configure my client to seek and render 32 px square textures when available? |
| 00:29 |
GreenDimond |
You dont |
| 00:29 |
GreenDimond |
In technic's case you move the 32x textures to the texture folder to replace the old ones |
| 00:29 |
GreenDimond |
its a mod thing |
| 00:29 |
GreenDimond |
However |
| 00:30 |
GreenDimond |
you could make a texture pack and put the 32x textures from technic in it |
| 00:30 |
Xiong |
7,99GreenDimond,99, you're being helpful but I'm still stuck. Do you want to point me to a coherent explanation of textures? rubenwardy's guide doesn't seem to deal with it. I may be overlooking sth. |
| 00:30 |
Xiong |
?! |
| 00:31 |
Xiong |
Wait, that may explain my next three questions too. |
| 00:32 |
Xiong |
There are some 32s in the default folder because nobody drew a 16. There are some 16s in the 32 folder because nobody drew a 32. Yes? |
| 00:33 |
entuland |
the way I understand them is that the game doesn't care about resolution, only about filename and folders (boiling to the same thing) |
| 00:33 |
entuland |
so using a different texture is matter of either: replacing the image keeping the name in the code, changing the name in the code, having a texture pack override it somehow |
| 00:35 |
entuland |
whatever the actual situation of specific resolutions for the specific mod is probably only known to that mod creators |
| 00:35 |
Xiong |
9,99entuland,99, that's a bold statement. What if I define a 128 for my whatzis node? Will it render all that detail (as it grinds ever slowly)? |
| 00:36 |
entuland |
UV mapping doesn't care about the size of the texture, conceptually - only 0..1 ranges whatever the size |
| 00:36 |
entuland |
so, yes you can use variable sizes with just changing the texture |
| 00:36 |
entuland |
unless you're doing some advanced stuff with texture, which I'm not referring to here, also because I'm not expert there |
| 00:37 |
entuland |
stuff like combining them with texture modifiers probably, just wildguessing here |
| 00:37 |
Xiong |
Well I know nothing about it so you're doing great. |
| 00:37 |
entuland |
eheheh |
| 00:38 |
entuland |
when you map a texture to a face in a program like blender, the actual position of vertices ontop of the texture assumes that the image is a logic unary surface, with coords going from zero to one, whatever floats values you want |
| 00:39 |
Xiong |
So... the motivation, I assume, for shipping multiple texture files with the same name is to offer the user a tradeoff between detail and performance. That's sensible. But switching up or down is a hack job. |
| 00:39 |
entuland |
the same thing should happen in minetest when using images in the tiles property |
| 00:39 |
entuland |
not really, you can work around that |
| 00:40 |
entuland |
you can have the size of the images as a variable in your code |
| 00:40 |
entuland |
so that the param gets set in a conf file, and on loading, the name files get built according to that number |
| 00:40 |
Xiong |
I mean the user making a choice. |
| 00:40 |
entuland |
that's not something the single users can be allowed unless registering multiple nodes, I guess |
| 00:41 |
entuland |
the decision about a node being rendered with a specific texture is either server-wide, or overridden by a texture pack, if I understand the situation properly |
| 00:41 |
Xiong |
Right. Rendering resolution isn't a user setting. |
| 00:42 |
Xiong |
You may have anticipated my next question. |
| 00:43 |
Xiong |
If I have foobar mod installed locally and join a server game, my client will (?) still download foobar textures from server? |
| 00:43 |
entuland |
I guess so, yes |
| 00:43 |
entuland |
that should be the "media" loading stage on screen |
| 00:44 |
entuland |
also because you're not really running your local foobar mod |
| 00:44 |
Xiong |
Eek. I thought I was doing it wrong. |
| 00:44 |
entuland |
you're just having the client do whatever the server is telling it to do |
| 00:44 |
Xiong |
Oh yes. |
| 00:45 |
Xiong |
But that's... absurdly inefficient. |
| 00:45 |
entuland |
the code of the game and all the logic is only performed in the server, the client only does rendering and perhaps some look-ahead things to improve the smoothness |
| 00:45 |
entuland |
again, assuming I am understanding that whole thing properly, not really an expert there, not by far |
| 00:46 |
Xiong |
Um... I might argue with you overall... beyond textures. I've seen players with hacked clients fly. |
| 00:47 |
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| 00:47 |
entuland |
that's a different thing - the client still has to send data back to the server, and the hacked client is simply tricking the server to accept invalid scenarios somehow |
| 00:48 |
Xiong |
But taking you at face value on textures... this is nutty. Even if I don't have the textures installed, why not cache them on the first download? |
| 00:48 |
entuland |
oh maybe they're doing that already, and on relogging, only sanity checks / cache validation is performed, I don't really know |
| 00:49 |
entuland |
I don't even know where that stuff goes when I'm playing on a remote server |
| 00:49 |
Xiong |
Duno. I don't notice any speedup. |
| 00:49 |
entuland |
I mean, where it gets stored on my PC or whether it gets stored to files _at all_ |
| 00:50 |
entuland |
my contribute there only accounts to wildguessing, but I've got probably a medical condition about wildguessing and can't really do without :P |
| 00:51 |
Xiong |
Well I'm sure the rendering engine must have a local cache, obviously... otherwise the download goes where? But it's consistent with my experience that this is all thrown out on next login. |
| 00:52 |
entuland |
I know for sure that there is a setting somewhere that lets you save on your client whatever map chunks you're seeing, keeping it as a local copy of that "part of the world" you've seen |
| 00:52 |
Xiong |
I need to learn more. |
| 00:52 |
entuland |
everybody does :P |
| 00:53 |
Xiong |
But I think this is double nuts. Rendering the scene is purely a client issue. |
| 00:54 |
Xiong |
Dunno, I might be impaired and want to install some high-contrast textures. Nobody's business but my own. |
| 00:54 |
entuland |
I think you can already do that with texture packs, but I can't be sure about that, never really bothered to mess with them |
| 00:55 |
entuland |
just install some texture pack and enable it, then log into a world you already know, and you'll see if it works :P |
| 00:55 |
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| 00:55 |
Xiong |
I don't like an excessively modular approach, so I haven't tried texpacks either. |
| 00:56 |
entuland |
after all the texture pack seems to be completely detached even from local worlds, so my wildguessing may be right there |
| 00:56 |
entuland |
I love modular approach, that's the part that lets you easily override stuff in a case like this |
| 00:56 |
entuland |
assuming I got that right, that is |
| 00:57 |
entuland |
would you mind checking out a simple texture pack and see if my wildguess was right? |
| 00:57 |
entuland |
my internet sucks right now and can't even play |
| 00:57 |
entuland |
let alone downloading a texture pack |
| 00:58 |
Xiong |
*sigh* I started out with the intention to fix one thing. After five years, technic extractor still looks identical to grinder. True for both LV and MV. |
| 00:58 |
entuland |
well, if that's all you were after, a simple PR with a different texture to be merged in the original repo would have been the easiest way probably :P |
| 01:00 |
entuland |
by the way, if I've seen that right, you could make your own texture pack and just override that one texture |
| 01:00 |
entuland |
for your own very personal use |
| 01:01 |
Xiong |
Let me rephrase. Modular construction is good up to a point; I believe in open architecture. Not sure I think core elements should be so implemented. But in any case, I personally want to play without dressing up. I reach for the default first... no reach at all. Perhaps I'm just lazy. |
| 01:01 |
entuland |
does that mean you're not going to test out my theory about texture packs? |
| 01:02 |
entuland |
:P |
| 01:03 |
Xiong |
A simple PR to technic? Maybe not. If extractors and grinder share one texture after five years, somebody wants it that way. Besides, a code change is probably required, too. Dunno. Haha, didn't get that far. |
| 01:04 |
entuland |
interesting: https://wiki.minetest.net/Creating_texture_packs |
| 01:04 |
Xiong |
Ohoh certainly! Happy to serve. You've been helpful, please let me return. |
| 01:06 |
Xiong |
"The [texture packs] forum you selected does not exist." |
| 01:07 |
Xiong |
Let me try stuff, I'll be back. |
| 01:10 |
entuland |
I managed to get on an online server, a lightweight one, after overriding one texture - it got applied to the rendering there, so... |
| 01:10 |
entuland |
!next |
| 01:10 |
MinetestBot |
Another satisfied customer. Next! |
| 01:10 |
entuland |
:P |
| 01:11 |
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| 01:14 |
Xiong |
Back. |
| 01:15 |
Xiong |
I may not be able to test without some experiment. Unclear where texpacks go on Android. But... okay, you were successful. |
| 01:15 |
Xiong |
https://wiki.minetest.net/Help:Installing_Texture_Packs |
| 01:17 |
Xiong |
"If you create a server and want that the texture pack works not only for you,..." -- suggests texpacks local by default. |
| 01:17 |
entuland |
wait, you're messing with minetest and IRC all on a tablet or the alike? |
| 01:18 |
Xiong |
Phone. |
| 01:18 |
entuland |
oh wow, even worse than a tablet. kudos, dude |
| 01:18 |
Xiong |
People who fight with me don't have any idea |
| 01:19 |
entuland |
anyway, see if you can get a hold of the position on your filesystem for all the default stuff (the mods and games and whatnot folders) |
| 01:19 |
Xiong |
... how stubborn I am. |
| 01:19 |
entuland |
eheheh |
| 01:19 |
entuland |
good for you |
| 01:19 |
entuland |
if you find those folders, simply edit whatever texture you want to edit, and put it into /textures/pack/base |
| 01:19 |
entuland |
that's all you need to do to apply that texture for yourself on all servers |
| 01:20 |
Xiong |
I think it's likely I can get a texpack working. |
| 01:20 |
entuland |
sorry, /textures/base/pack |
| 01:20 |
entuland |
I'd test with a single texture there, just in case, will save you time in case that doesn't work - cause that's exactly what I did on desktop |
| 01:21 |
Xiong |
The question being... will I still spend four minutes downloading on join? |
| 01:21 |
entuland |
most likely yes |
| 01:21 |
Xiong |
Well great thanks. |
| 01:21 |
* Xiong |
eats |
| 01:22 |
entuland |
:) |
| 01:22 |
entuland |
the way the texture pack works is just to simply override whatever you have with whatever you happen to have in the base pack and in the enabled texture pack, and to do that it most likely simply downloads everything from the server first |
| 01:23 |
entuland |
although, yes, it would be savvy to only download needed stuff, and not even all in advance, even at runtime during gameplay |
| 01:23 |
entuland |
even just* at runtime |
| 01:24 |
entuland |
just imagine servers with a crapload of models and textures that perhaps aren't being used in the world at all - I would make it so that just inventory textures get loaded upfront |
| 01:25 |
entuland |
and never download a model or a texture if there isn't any need to do so, but I've been told that some of this aggressive media management could be a problem |
| 01:25 |
entuland |
I've been told that irrlicht can load assets at runtime just fine, but is slow loading models |
| 01:26 |
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| 01:26 |
entuland |
that said, I'll call it a day, have fun Xiong |
| 01:26 |
* entuland |
waves |
| 01:27 |
AdirBlaz |
I read that this is the channel to ask for help with issues? |
| 01:27 |
entuland |
this may be a good entry point to expose your case, AdirBlaz, sure, go ahead |
| 01:27 |
entuland |
if it's something I can help you with quickly I'll gladly do so |
| 01:28 |
AdirBlaz |
This may seem like something a little minor, I submitted a skin on the minetest.tv website and sort of was an idiot and didn't read any of the warnings about the skin submission. Could you possibly please help me out with this? The skin was submitted in a bit of haste. |
| 01:29 |
entuland |
oh, nope, sorry, not only I can't help you with that directly (I'm just a regular player and a modder for my own fun) I also can't even tell if you can get help here at all about that specific website |
| 01:30 |
AdirBlaz |
Ouch. Alrighty. |
| 01:30 |
Emerald2 |
Who runs that website? |
| 01:30 |
Emerald2 |
Hmm moment, let me check something. |
| 01:31 |
AdirBlaz |
I believe some couple of people named Shara and Nathans21? |
| 01:31 |
AdirBlaz |
That's what the website says anyway. |
| 01:31 |
AdirBlaz |
IIRC the website stated that they can be contacted via IRC or forums, although I wasn't entirely sure which IRC that'd be. |
| 01:31 |
entuland |
if that's true, they're in this very channel, shara is at least |
| 01:31 |
AdirBlaz |
Nice. |
| 01:32 |
entuland |
nathan seems to be as well |
| 01:33 |
AdirBlaz |
I just hope they can help out. |
| 01:33 |
entuland |
whether to wait for them to notice your pings or to try and send a PM to them is completely up to you there |
| 01:33 |
entuland |
good luck in any case and have fun |
| 01:33 |
* entuland |
out, peace! |
| 01:34 |
Emerald2 |
I feel like I saw somebody from there on another chat so I'm checking. |
| 01:35 |
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| 01:40 |
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| 01:40 |
MinetestBot |
hecks: Feb-10 20:20 UTC <paramat> your PR is delayed due to lack of core dev time and feature freeze, not because of my review, i've had no objections to it since 25 sept. you're making an excessive fuss about it, it's normal for core devs to have issues with a contribution and other core devs will do this too, so please don't focus on me, please? =) |
| 01:41 |
Emerald2 |
Hmm Imma ask some people if they know, AdirBlaz. |
| 01:42 |
AdirBlaz |
Oh, alrighty |
| 01:50 |
Emerald2 |
So are you trying to add a skin to use on their minetest server, Adir? |
| 01:51 |
AdirBlaz |
I suppose that's the case. I submit a skin, but then made edits to the skin, and when I tried to submit that I ended up getting told I need to contact someone to help change it at all. |
| 01:51 |
Emerald2 |
Oh I found their IRC channel. |
| 01:51 |
Emerald2 |
It's #thepixelshadow |
| 01:51 |
AdirBlaz |
Thanks for that |
| 01:52 |
Emerald2 |
Haha and you need voice to talk. I'll try PMing one of them. |
| 01:53 |
AdirBlaz |
I'm not entirely comfortable using my microphone lol |
| 01:53 |
Emerald2 |
Ahh no not microphone. Voice is an IRC setting. |
| 01:53 |
AdirBlaz |
Oh |
| 01:53 |
Emerald2 |
The channel is moderated so people need to be given something to be able to write in there. |
| 01:54 |
AdirBlaz |
I'm... not very used to IRC, as one can tell. |
| 01:54 |
Emerald2 |
Yeah, it can be confusing if you don't use it very often. It's no problem. :) |
| 01:56 |
AdirBlaz |
Wait, I found mods that allow players to change their character's skin offline. I suppose I didn't need to go through any of this. |
| 01:57 |
AdirBlaz |
Oh well, thanks for the help anyway. |
| 01:57 |
Emerald2 |
Not a problem. You know where their chat is now if you need further help. |
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| 03:29 |
paramat |
Xiong any idea why numbers are appearing around usernames you type? see http://irc.minetest.net/minetest/2019-02-11#i_5493697 is it on logs only? |
| 03:34 |
kaeza |
paramat: these are colors loggingbot is not correctly stripping. |
| 03:35 |
paramat |
ok thanks |
| 03:37 |
kaeza |
These also appear when MinetestBot reports a git commit. |
| 03:40 |
kaeza |
Android controls seem much better than on 0.4.17. It's just missing the crosshair. |
| 03:40 |
Wuzzy |
XD |
| 03:40 |
Wuzzy |
Who needs a crosshair anyway? Pointless luxury. |
| 03:41 |
kaeza |
I guess there's no chance in hell the PR will be in 5.0 |
| 03:41 |
kaeza |
Fingers have a tendency to hide what's behind them :P |
| 03:42 |
kaeza |
Plus, ahem... Minecraft has such an option. |
| 03:45 |
Emerald2 |
I was gone all weekend. Did Sveta end up finding out what they wanted to know about in game translation of items and such? |
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Xiong |
7,99kaeza,99, not sure why you want crosshairs on Android. Since you act where you touch, maybe far from center. |
| 12:33 |
Xiong |
I wanted crosshairs myself, briefly, to "look at" stuff without touching it... read what text it puts up. |
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| 12:53 |
Xiong |
Well... FWIW... I got to the bottom of the grinder/extractor texture issue. There are distinct textures for each... they're just not loaded by default. So the naive user has no idea. |
| 12:53 |
* Xiong |
sleeps |
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| 13:47 |
erstazi |
rubenwardy: hey, I want to help update the main wiki. email erstazi gmail.com (: I am on the forum as well with same email |
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Calinou |
erstazi: hi, do you want the same username on the wiki as on IRC? |
| 14:21 |
erstazi |
Calinou: yes please (: and thank you. I see a few things that can be cleaned up. I don't intend to mess with too much. Just cleaning up version numbers for mods on the wiki. Later on, there might be more but I would talk first about it |
| 14:24 |
Calinou |
erstazi: done, check your email for the password. Note that the username is Erstazi because MediaWiki requires the first character to be uppercase |
| 14:26 |
erstazi |
Calinou: done and thanks! |
| 14:26 |
Calinou |
you're welcome :) |
| 14:26 |
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| 15:59 |
JDCodeIt |
<rubenwardy> As with <erstazi> I would also be willing to help update the dev wiki from the official lua_api.txt that is maintained in Github |
| 16:05 |
rubenwardy |
I never said that |
| 16:05 |
rubenwardy |
I guess that's your own words? |
| 16:06 |
rubenwardy |
Calinou ^ |
| 16:10 |
JDCodeIt |
Not sure what you mean - I was echoing erstazi that we are willing to help - erstazi reached out to you, but I did not yet see any answer if we could provide some help on the dev Wiki pages |
| 16:12 |
Calinou |
JDCodeIt: PM me your email address and desired username (using /msg Calinou <message>) |
| 16:14 |
p_gimeno |
JDCodeIt: when you put a nick in < > and at the start, it seems like you're quoting a previous text because that's how many IRC clients copy/paste nicks |
| 16:14 |
JDCodeIt |
Ok, will avoid that - sorry for the confusion |
| 16:20 |
JDCodeIt |
rubenwardy, regarding the Wiki pages, should we make any effort to make distinction as to version nuances or just move forward with the current version lua_api definitions in minetest-master? |
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| 18:43 |
p_gimeno |
what's the license on the minimal game assets? |
| 18:44 |
VanessaE |
cc-by-sa I think |
| 18:58 |
p_gimeno |
and whose copyright are they? |
| 19:01 |
sfan5 |
doesn't the license file say so? |
| 19:01 |
p_gimeno |
I haven't found it |
| 19:02 |
p_gimeno |
ah sorry, I guess it's under "Everything not listed in here:" |
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| 19:40 |
GreenDimond |
Oi Wuzzy, are you lurking about? |
| 19:40 |
Wuzzy |
hi |
| 19:41 |
GreenDimond |
hbhunger is broke |
| 19:41 |
Emerald2 |
Hey Wuzzy I heard you work on translation stuff? |
| 19:41 |
GreenDimond |
Got my server stuck in a crash loop earlier from using food in a nodebreaker |
| 19:41 |
Wuzzy |
MT version? hbhunger version? |
| 19:41 |
Wuzzy |
hudbars version? |
| 19:41 |
* Emerald2 |
queues up behind GD. :) |
| 19:41 |
GreenDimond |
Yes, hudbars |
| 19:41 |
GreenDimond |
0.4.17.1 MT |
| 19:42 |
GreenDimond |
But |
| 19:42 |
Wuzzy |
error msg plz |
| 19:42 |
GreenDimond |
I think the problem is pipeworks nodebreaker doesnt have is_fake_player |
| 19:42 |
Wuzzy |
oh gosh, the fake player shit agian... :O |
| 19:42 |
rubenwardy |
I hate fake players |
| 19:42 |
GreenDimond |
Yeah |
| 19:43 |
rubenwardy |
there needs to be an engine API for this |
| 19:43 |
Wuzzy |
cant the nodebreaker at least make a nil check? |
| 19:43 |
Wuzzy |
or whatever breaks due to fake players |
| 19:43 |
GreenDimond |
Well all you need to do is minetest.get_player_by_name() |
| 19:43 |
GreenDimond |
the problem is when the player is not online |
| 19:43 |
Wuzzy |
hbhuneer does not support fake players :P |
| 19:43 |
GreenDimond |
though idealy nodebreakers whouldnt be able to eat |
| 19:43 |
Wuzzy |
esp. when fake players are also broken XD |
| 19:44 |
GreenDimond |
not that you need it but heres the error https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/9N7nWxTQBm/ |
| 19:44 |
GreenDimond |
now that I look closer |
| 19:45 |
GreenDimond |
theres like 4 mods in that error |
| 19:45 |
Wuzzy |
doesnt look like its hbhunger's fault |
| 19:45 |
GreenDimond |
alright rubenwardy you're here too |
| 19:45 |
Wuzzy |
it just seems to pass some broken value. garbage in, garbage out |
| 19:45 |
rubenwardy |
que |
| 19:45 |
Wuzzy |
Emerald2: I don't really work on translation stuff |
| 19:45 |
Wuzzy |
or what did you want me to ask |
| 19:45 |
Wuzzy |
oh this reminds me... |
| 19:45 |
rubenwardy |
I'm always here, the joy of bouncers :) |
| 19:45 |
GreenDimond |
Wuzzy: Thanks for your help anyway x) |
| 19:46 |
rubenwardy |
on IRC, bouncers keep you in a channel not out of one |
| 19:46 |
rubenwardy |
lol |
| 19:46 |
GreenDimond |
rubenwardy: Awards is the one causing the crash; but whether its your code or mine I dont know yet. |
| 19:46 |
* rubenwardy |
isn't sure if "bouncers" is an international term |
| 19:46 |
Emerald2 |
Hmm I heard you might know something about it, Wuzzy. We had somebody wanting to know about inventory items getting translated. |
| 19:46 |
rubenwardy |
heh |
| 19:46 |
rubenwardy |
Awards doesn't add fake players |
| 19:46 |
rubenwardy |
but it may be missing nil and fake player checks |
| 19:47 |
GreenDimond |
I know |
| 19:47 |
GreenDimond |
looks like a missing sanity check probably |
| 19:48 |
GreenDimond |
Looks like adding a simple `or not itemstack` should do the trick |
| 19:49 |
GreenDimond |
Wuzzy: Still may be worth figuring out another hack to not allow eating with node breakers |
| 19:50 |
Wuzzy |
i dont want to deal with fakeplayers |
| 19:50 |
Wuzzy |
are fake players at least documented? |
| 19:50 |
GreenDimond |
Fair enough |
| 19:51 |
Wuzzy |
they look like a hacky concept to implement a hacky feature |
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kaeza |
Xiong: it's useful to see the thing you're trying to break, especially small things like butterflies. |
| 21:43 |
kaeza |
And mushrooms, and why not have the option? |
| 21:43 |
kaeza |
Also, greetings. |
| 21:46 |
kaeza |
... And yet another 50M WebView update, nice... |
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| 22:24 |
swift110 |
sup |
| 22:24 |
swift110 |
is there any chance that tutorial will be a part of minetest download |
| 22:24 |
swift110 |
? |
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| 23:56 |
zaphraud |
I got 5.0.0-dev working and I can't see in the dark with a gamma of 3 anymore. |
| 23:56 |
GreenDimond |
That is correct |
| 23:56 |
GreenDimond |
Gamma "cheating" was fixed |
| 23:59 |
zaphraud |
The problem is that tree trunks don't cook into coals in this game so how does one make the first light? |
